|
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
On March 01 2013 11:14 thrawn2112 wrote:
I'm calling bullshit on dieno's stance on syl. Look the post dieno quoted to justify the duel:
blah blah blah
Here's where that quote came from:
blah blah blah
What.... that post from syl is actually pretty good imo. Dienosaur completely took that quote out of context in order to justify his duel. Syl is not saying he wants to duel deino, he'd rather lynch Cor.
Would you have preferred if I quoted this one instead?:
While I'm willing to go up for a duel because of my lurker status, my lack of critical scumhunting, and whatnot - I'll let Deino cast the duel. He can show he has the same commitment that I do to being on the block.
The whole premise of this duel is stupid, it's very obvious that dieno is more concerned about keeing up appearances rather than lynching his top scumread.
As I explained to Acro, Syl is currently my top scumread.
Dieno's read on syl comes from nowhere. He's just doing this because we told him to, not because he cares about lynching scum when means we should lynch him.
Maybe you didn't read my case. I'd hardly say that my read "comes from nowhere".
|
On March 01 2013 11:32 Acrofales wrote:
Before I go to bed, there's one thing that I thought of for the redacting of the scum wincon: there might be two scumteams. Just a theory for now, but it's one of the few reasons I can think of for redacting the wincon.
I find it unlikely that there are two scum teams.
There's only been 1KP. Having two teams, with one KP between them, is horribly unfair to the team not shooting.
|
Well you guys know who I'm voting for:
##Vote: Sylencia.
Here is a quick summary:
On February 27 2013 15:03 cDgCorazon wrote:
So you have a null read on him?
Let's forget my meta argument for a second. Let's take a look at what he has done this game:
-Lurked at multiple important points in the game (he has <20 posts when many of us have 60+)
-Many of his posts are short, have no real point, and are of no value to the town
-Promised scum reads but never delivered on them
-Trying to fly under the radar, only brought out when someone asks for it
-Sits on the middle of the fence for [The Kei] lynch, showing he does not really care about the lynch
It has scum written all over it. Is there anything I'm missing?
I don't understand why you guys are voting for Dieno right now. If you think about it, a Sylencia lynch or a double lynch would give us the most information.
Who are the three most suspicious players in this game?
Me
Syl
Dieno
If you guys sit here and lynch Dieno off, you get very little about my alignment (only the fact that I'm not voting for Dieno), and we would sit here and ask questions about me and Syl for another day and basically waste a Day (unless of course Dieno comes back as scum). If you guys lynch Sylencia, you guys get his flip and get information about both his and my alignment from the flip. It seems like a no-brainer to me.
I'd love to see a double lynch, but if we are going to choose one person, I'd rather it be Syl. If he flips town, I'm ok dueling whoever you guys choose next. That's my promise.
Lastly: @Acro: KISS
|
|
|
On March 01 2013 11:37 Dienosore wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 11:14 thrawn2112 wrote:
I'm calling bullshit on dieno's stance on syl. Look the post dieno quoted to justify the duel:
blah blah blah
Here's where that quote came from:
blah blah blah
What.... that post from syl is actually pretty good imo. Dienosaur completely took that quote out of context in order to justify his duel. Syl is not saying he wants to duel deino, he'd rather lynch Cor.
Would you have preferred if I quoted this one instead?: Show nested quote +
While I'm willing to go up for a duel because of my lurker status, my lack of critical scumhunting, and whatnot - I'll let Deino cast the duel. He can show he has the same commitment that I do to being on the block.
Show nested quote +
The whole premise of this duel is stupid, it's very obvious that dieno is more concerned about keeing up appearances rather than lynching his top scumread.
As I explained to Acro, Syl is currently my top scumread. Show nested quote +
Dieno's read on syl comes from nowhere. He's just doing this because we told him to, not because he cares about lynching scum when means we should lynch him.
Maybe you didn't read my case. I'd hardly say that my read "comes from nowhere".
that case came after you dueled syl. there's barely anything in your filter that suggests you had a strong enough read on syl that would make you want to duel him.
so what is your 2nd strongest scumread? 3rd? etc
|
On March 01 2013 10:32 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 10:25 thrawn2112 wrote:On March 01 2013 10:18 Hapahauli wrote:On March 01 2013 10:14 thrawn2112 wrote:
actually fuck it, i think worrying about if we want to double lynch this early on is completely counter productive.
##Vote: Dienosaur Why is it counter-productive? I think it encourages the two people we need to talk the most (Syl and Dieno) to talk more. i'm worried that most people are going to go for this double lynch thing and not commit to picking either side. Do you really think that it's most likely that both of them are scum? If you think there's even a small chance of them having different alignments then it's beneficial to know which one the thread wants to lynch. it's much easier for scum to justify a vote later on in the cycle as opposed to right now. and if you're worried about dieno and syl not feeling pressured if we don't immediately go for double lynch.... don't worry about it. i'm sure they know exactly what position they're in. Both scum should not be ruled out entirely. They were under significant pressure to duel each other and they know that this way they *might* have an opportunity for one of them to clear his name. It's a risk, but they were almost certainly both going to end up on the chopping block anyway (one today, other tomorrow). This way it can maybe work in their favour. Anyway, I'll assess them individually, rather than as an either/or pair. It's not the same situation as Adam/Keir, where Adam could have picked virtually anybody to duel.
I'm comfortable ruling out both scum - to expand on what I said earlier:
With this towns rampant attitude towards double lynching before the duel began - Acro, Thrawn, Oats, Corazon, the odds of reaching a single majority in this duel seemed pretty unlikely, as we needed 6 to hammer. With both Dieno and Sylencia being first and second on a majority of the towns lynch list, a double lynch looks to be almost a sure thing. Why would you drag your scum teammate into a duel against a kill-happy town that is more than likely just going to kill you both, shredding any form of cred you were hoping to gain and leaving the scum team in an unwinnable position.
Assuming we only kill one, the remaining member is still very high on everyones kill-list for the rest of the game. The risk is enormous, the payoff is nothing.
Now look at it the other way - them being opposite alignments. Dieno came into today with a bullseye on his head. I made it known that if he wasn't in today's duel, hes a dead man tomorrow, even if I had to die with him via town revenge. So he calls this duel with a bad looking townie that he hopes to take out with him to not die empty handed, assuming the town falls for the double lynch, as looked likely from the start of the day.
I don't buy for a second that there's two scum here, and I'm going to save any townie I can, regardless of how useful they're being.
|
Brunei Darussalam622 Posts
@hapa(/thrawn): I read thrawns post and addressed his points. Here ya go:
On March 01 2013 07:56 thrawn2112 wrote:
So it seems like Dieno's main motivating factor in originally wanting to duel adam was entirely because adam wanted to duel dieno. Dieno's scumread on adam consists of nothing, like he is only dueling to defend his namesake or some shit. This is odd because you should only be wanting to duel your strong scumreads and I don't get the feeling that Dieno had a strong scumread on adam. After adam backs down, Dieno does nothing about his read except to state that he's cooled off and want to focus on other things, but also that he's ready and willing to duel if adam wants to. So does dienosaur have a scumread on adam? Does it look like a scumread that is strong enough to be the basis of a duel?
My main motivation was the fact that he wanted to duel me. I was a little offended that he would jump at me so early in the game, so naturally I snapped back at him. Then some time passed and some stuff happened. Marv vouched for Adam, etc. I stayed suspicious up until the flip, and now I'm pretty sure Adam is not a scumdog. I just don't see mafia dueling each other day 1. Unless of course it was all a genius plan to do the unthinkable and get town cred... but probably not.
Keirathi has already shown that mafia will accept a challenge when directly called out, and I'm not convinced that dieno truly wished to duel adam in a townie way.... the way that a townie would want to duel somebody they have a strong scumread on. Keir and dieno are similar in this regard as they express a very diplomatic attitude towards dueling. They will accept a duel, but it looks more like they are accepting because of appearance reasons rather than scumhunting reasons. If I was called on to duel, I would only be willing to duel a select few people. This is because as town you are only willing to duel your strong scumreads. Deino didn't express a "i think he's scum and i'm willing to own up to my read" attitude, he had a "if he wants to duel me, i'll duel him" attitude. That is not a townie-motivated approach to dueling.
It was super early in the game and I wasn't entirely sure about Adam, hence why I didn't actually duel him. However, I did want to send the message that I'm not going to be cowed by anyone trying to be a bully, and I think it worked pretty well.
Here are your main points about keir, taken from that bottom paragraph:
"Other than a bit of back and forth banter mostly discussing dueling policy, he has kept a relatively low profile"
"The only real aggression shown has been directed towards a scummy looking Thrawn"
"Overall, I'd say he has been playing it overly safe, if anything."
Those things are not suspicious? wtf
No, I don't think they are. To me, he just seemed like a busy and slightly uninterested towny.
that dienosore is hella scummy for not being suspicious of obviously scummy keir. keir's actual alignment probably doesn't even factor into it. town dienosore should not be looking at someone who hardcore lurked and only introduced 1 unique point to the thread and seeing them as not scummy.
The theme of those posts is that Dienosore isn't suspicious of a obviously suspicious lurker. This is a scumtell. I scumslipped exactly like this in lviii by not being suspicious of a guy who dropped off in activity. I have no issue with the fact that he chose adam as his scumread. The problem is when he fails to understand the idea that keir's lurking is suspicious. He eve labels keir's play as "overly safe, kept a relatively low profile, etc." Yet he is not suspicious of keir at all for those things!
It wasn't obvious to me at all. Up until Keir flipped, I never really felt strongly that he was mafia. Maybe some of you other guys have more experience with Keir to have been able to make a meta read based on his lazy play, but I didn't. Lesson learned, though.
he throws this at Oats:
blah blah blah
Not only does this seem ridiculously forced, dieno hasn't done anything with it. His only mention of or interaction with Oats was asking oats to clarify something somebody else said.
I wanted to quote that because he basically says he is in favor of lynching someone he didn't think was scum. Smells super fishy to me and I'm surprised you guys just basically brushed it under the rug.
|
dienosore, one question:
Give me the most basic statement you can summarizing syl's play, and why you think he's scum. Keep it as short and as to the point as possible.
|
|
|
?
What changed your mind thrawn?
|
Also DIeno, I need some of your other reads. What's your current view on Oats?
You had this earlier quote on Oats...
On February 27 2013 16:05 Dienosore wrote:Wait, hold on... Did I read this right? Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 15:38 Oatsmaster wrote:
I dont think that Keirathi is gonna flip scum, but on the slight chance that he is trying not to draw flack for his play, I am in favour of lynching him. Quoting this for preservation purposes.
...which sounds like you really thought he was scum. In that regard, I'm surprised you jumped on Sylencia so quickly.
|
lol i read all of syl's filter, and all of his previous games. i really wish i could vote for just one but they are both pretty scummy.
it made me think I should reconsider my dieno read, so i did..... but he still looks like scum. i can't justify saving either of them
|
Yeah, that's why I like my plan =)
|
i hate it tbh. but there seems to be no other sensible option.
that being said i'd like to know who you would vote for if you had to pick one.
|
On March 01 2013 12:33 Dienosore wrote:Show nested quote +
he throws this at Oats:
blah blah blah
Not only does this seem ridiculously forced, dieno hasn't done anything with it. His only mention of or interaction with Oats was asking oats to clarify something somebody else said.
I wanted to quote that because he basically says he is in favor of lynching someone he didn't think was scum. Smells super fishy to me and I'm surprised you guys just basically brushed it under the rug.
So you found something scummy, didnt ask me, didnt do ANYTHING with it and expected someone to make your case for you? What is the status of your read on me?
|
Thrawn, can you argue any of the points I made earlier on this page about this not being a two-scum lynch?
Assuming you start with the premise that dieno is scum, which I have no issue doing as his filter just smacks of scum.
|
On March 01 2013 14:27 thrawn2112 wrote:
i hate it tbh. but there seems to be no other sensible option.
that being said i'd like to know who you would vote for if you had to pick one.
Dieno. Pretty sure I mentioned that before.
|
On March 01 2013 14:34 Adam4167 wrote:
Thrawn, can you argue any of the points I made earlier on this page about this not being a two-scum lynch?
I was originally thinking that too. But there may be 3 scum left.... and if that's the case, then having 2 scum duel today isn't as ridiculous as if there are only 2 scum remaining.
On March 01 2013 14:34 Adam4167 wrote:
Assuming you start with the premise that dieno is scum, which I have no issue doing as his filter just smacks of scum.
Read sylencia's filter. It also smacks of scum.
Do you have any problems with syl being scum or are you just thinking that both can't be scum?
|
I'm pretty sold on the idea that BOTH cannot be scum, simply because of the thread sentiment of double lynching duelers. That means the scum team, even if there was 4 of them to begin with, are agreeing to go into tomorrow as 8v1 - nigh unwinnable. They're effectively trading 2 scum here for a night kill this cycle, that's about as bloody awful a trade as I can think of. Why do that when you can trade 1 scum, whos dead meat anyway, for a bad townie, then get your nightkill anyway, trading 2 town for a single scum. Its just so much of a better move.
Dieno's filter has all the hallmarks of new scum. Being overly friendly, not ruffling feathers, being wishy-washy, overreactions to pressure, zero scum-hunting, backing in a teammate with non-existent logic.
While I see little redeeming in Sylencia's filter in the way of progressing the scum hunt, he was willing to butt heads with Cora with his very first post, what new scum does that? His very first post draws attention to himself by starting a shit-fight. In a game with half a dozen well-versed town players, that's NUTS. He also didn't have a problem putting me in my place for being a Cowboy. With super-shark Marv swimming around the tank, I expect the scum, at least the newer scums, were all laying quite low N0 until they could bump him off and go to work.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
