EPTRight up until page 20 when a few more people showed up in the game, lots of talk was on Hapa but Corazon completely ignored that discussion and went after Oats, if I recall correctly. I'm a little rusty on how to interpret that, but it seemed noteworthy.
This Town Ain't Big Enough Mafia - Page 25
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
Right up until page 20 when a few more people showed up in the game, lots of talk was on Hapa but Corazon completely ignored that discussion and went after Oats, if I recall correctly. I'm a little rusty on how to interpret that, but it seemed noteworthy. | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 04:50 Snarfs wrote: Also adding this so I don't forget later: Right up until page 20 when a few more people showed up in the game, lots of talk was on Hapa but Corazon completely ignored that discussion and went after Oats, if I recall correctly. I'm a little rusty on how to interpret that, but it seemed noteworthy. Are you serious? I went after the fact that Oats was being inconsistent. What I said had nothing to do with the back and forth and forth and forth between all the experienced vets (which I will get to reading right after I post this). That was a really weak point to bring up, and I'm really surprised that you've decided to focus on that instead of everything else that has gone on. | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On February 26 2013 05:04 cDgCorazon wrote: Are you serious? I went after the fact that Oats was being inconsistent. What I said had nothing to do with the back and forth and forth and forth between all the experienced vets (which I will get to reading right after I post this). That was a really weak point to bring up, and I'm really surprised that you've decided to focus on that instead of everything else that has gone on. And I'm surprised that your response to me doesn't include thoughts on hapa. Please entertain me? | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 00:13 cDgCorazon wrote: 3. When I get home from school (in a few hours), I am going to re-read the pages with the whole go around between the TL veterans (basically everyone but the lurkers, me, Adam, Yamato, and Dieno). Maybe you haven't read the thread enough... | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On February 26 2013 05:12 cDgCorazon wrote: Maybe you haven't read the thread enough... Yea, I saw that. It just felt weird when hapa was a big focus that you didn't mention him at the time (other than to say you were going to look into it) so I made a note of it. Since marv and yamato seem pretty happy with you so far though, I'm not going to really push you on this one since it's not a big priority and would probably just derail things. As I said, just making a note of things. | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Hapa's attack on Iamp did not have very good grounds to start with. Hapa said that Iamp's posts have not been sensical and the fact that Iamp is going to defend Yamato "till the end" just because he has a town read on him now. While I agree with the concern over Iamp's attitude towards Yamato (especially because he went on to say that reads can change. Pretty contradictory), I don't think all of Iamp's posts up to that point were nonsensical. He had made a couple of good points and Hapa only made mention of the bad ones. Hapa and Iamp have their little back and forth and Iamp basically besides to become all egotistical and say that his abilities to scumhunt are paralled by none. On February 25 2013 11:51 iamperfection wrote: not really everybody else needed that stuff i had him pegged as town after two posts. didnt read parallel Another issue I have in this whole argument is this post: On February 25 2013 11:41 Hapahauli wrote: Newbie player makes wishy-washy newbie post. Your turn. Hapa goes and basically plays the noob card for Dieno. I know that it's scummy enough to play the noob card for oneself, but the fact that Hapa used it to defend Dieno is scummy as well. However, it did fit into his later logic that reads should not be made off of one post and that he had a null read on both. How this argument ended was ridiculously silly. Once it looked like Hapa was not going to gain anything else with this, he basically used Iamp's answer to get out of pressuring him. I, like others, do not understand how saying "because I felt like it" is an automatic town tell? Yamato hit the nail on the head for why I think Hapa ended the argument: On February 25 2013 12:24 yamato77 wrote: No, it's just Hapa finding a reason to get off iamp once he figures out that the thread isn't following him. I don't know if it's a pride issue or whatever with Hapa, but he could've handled this way better that how he did. That had to have been the worst possible way to end an argument. I don't understand the reasoning, and I'm starting to get a scummy vibe from Hapa. This is what I see. I'm going to make another post with a few other small things to say as well, but here is my 2 cents on Hapa. | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
Hapa The very first thing he does is claim town, which I really dislike. Proposes a policy. Suggests that all Cora wants to do is call Sylencia a dick... stoking the flames The 180 on iamp with not a lot of justification In the end he makes a fairly good defense (last post in his filter). The iamp 180 does look awful, but I can see the reasoning behind it. Oats Super spastic. Tons of questions. The other game I've played with Oats, this is how he played Day 1 in order to get information/discussion flowing. I am pretty sure that is his tactic now. But if literally zero cases or reads come out of it, his behavior is going to look scummy in retrospect. Keirathi Somebody else who soft-claimed town immediately, a thing I hate. Supposedly caught up with the thread but hasn't made his presence known in any substantial way. He needs to have opinions or something. Dienosore I feel like he is the stuffed animal of this game of mafia. He is cute and friendly and makes sweet pictures and hard to hate, but when night strikes he turns into an Agent of Evil and creepily plots our demise. Okay, so not really. His picture is potentially helpful/useful, and I like his tone, but he has really gone out of his way to talk about how friendly he is, which strikes me a little bit of Stranger In An Unmarked Van syndrome. He opts to be the nice welcoming guy to Cora when everyone else is finding excuses to hate him, and it just makes my heart swell. Then in his defense of his defense of Cora, he mentions multiple times how friendly he is. Why is he so concerned with looking friendly? Town doesn't need to worry how they look, just what they accomplish. Note that he also went out of his way to express how he is NOT good at catching scum. Why would town advertise that? Don't they want their arguments to hold sway? I want to see more of his conclusions from his mapping; undoubtedly several occur to him while he does the research. Adam What does Adam think about people not named Dienosore? Hard to tell. Snarfs Unless Snarfs has been mafia a million times in a row, his first line was a super annoying soft-town-claim that is not justified, in my opinion. Now that he's caught up I wonder what his other thoughts are. Sylencia I mentioned this earlier, but Sylencia looks the scummiest right now of all of the players. Others have contributed less/none, but the few things Sylencia has popped in to post fall easily under the Scum Motivated category. He has more work to do to stop looking scummy than anybody else. Just check his filter and the case makes itself. iamperfection His player list comment (assuming town will have the good players for some reason) sounds awful but when looked at, I can understand how it's simply just saying that there are so many good players we're bound to have at least one as town. His logic fails to account for the fact that mafia will also have good players, so it's not like town will now have it easy  . He calls someone town REALLY early in the game, which something you can usually only do with confidence when you are scum. He calls Snarfs scummy also very early in the game, then tells other people to discuss it. I think this is kind of null, but worth bringing up because it was a unique read. He goes out of his way to answer for corazon, tell him who is scum. I don't know that I can see scum acting this... forwardly. He is unforgiving in his opinions and doesn't really bend at all to town, and he just has this weird vibe. I get a sense of unique thoughts coming from this man. He gives a bunch of town reads, which is apparently something he just does. This man is a Wild Card. I think I like him. (And I can also understand how someone would be certain that he's scum and then suddenly decide he's no longer scum.) | ||
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zarepath
United States1626 Posts
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Alderan
United States463 Posts
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
Oats' play so far has been a bit shaky for me. I already pointed out the fact that he is being inconsistent towards Iamp and other players, but he hasn't made any clear effort to scumhunt. Most of his filter has been directing discussion and debates with others, but he hasn't brought in any clear direction with his posts. He has made several hints to him thinking players are scummy: On February 25 2013 20:01 Oatsmaster wrote: Acro is also somewhat scummy, cant really pin down what it is though :/ On February 26 2013 01:17 Oatsmaster wrote: Welcome to scumland Zarepath, at least in my book :D The points where he has shown doubt and suspicion on another player (and not their arguments) have been thrown out there, but he hasn't put anything behind them. The one time where he expanded on one of these points: On February 25 2013 11:23 Oatsmaster wrote: I get a different feeling in this game than LIX. He is not really stepping up here, even in LIX he didnt run for mayor until half of the first cycle was gone. So therefore, I dont really think marv is helping town so far. So therefore he is scummy. Acro's response basically explains how I feel about this: On February 25 2013 12:13 Acrofales wrote: This is completely contradictory. In LIX Marv didn't step up until later. He was town there. In this game, Marv has not stepped up in the first 4 (or so) hours of the game. Therefore Marv is scummy this game. This makes no sense to me. Oats, your reads so far make no sense. You scum throwing shitty cases around and trying to discredit strong players? The moment after Oats makes this illogical statement, he tries to get everyone to not think about it: On February 25 2013 11:26 Oatsmaster wrote: Anyway its pointless to pursue this further on this point, I dont think its a very strong scumtell for marv, but it isnt a towntell. Which makes me suspicous. Also hapa get in the game, thrawn and marv just beat you to the exact same point. And when he gets challenged on the point, he tries to throw the discussion elsewhere: On February 25 2013 11:50 Oatsmaster wrote: Thrawn I didnt say it wasnt a scumtell, I said it wasnt a strong scumtell. Anyway stop discussing Marv, its getting nowhere. Acro do you have any reads? He's trying to dodge the fact that he made an illogical argument. To me, that is a strong scum tell. He refuses to elaborate on why Marv playing like his town meta makes him scummy because he knows it is a bad argument. Why would scum try to avoid this? They need to make up arguments that are not true so that the town will not vote them off. Why would he make this silly argument in the first place if he wasn't scum? Why would he not own up to his mistake and take the blame for a bad argument and instead try to sidestep it? These are the questions I would love to see Oats answer. On a final note, Sylencia's play seems a lot like his scum game from NMM XXXIV. He seems perfectly content with hiding in the shadows and letting everyone else destroy each other and not have to do any scumhunting himself. If I had to choose who to duel right now, it would be Hapa and Oats. Sylencia would be a close third. If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask. | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 06:12 Alderan wrote: Ok guys, I'm here. Thought I was getting back from vacation the night of the 24th but only getting back today due to some travel issues. Sorry for the inactivity, that shouldn't be an accurate representation of my play going forward. Having lurkers sucks so I'm going to try and get my ideas out about as many topics as quickly as possible, and if you have any specific questions for me let me know. Im in the library for the next our and a half or so, should be enough time to get something going. Hello! Being a bit late to the party, there are things that we all might have missed in the heat of the moment. Is there anything that you have found from the pervious discussion that you want to point out or that you want to discuss more? If you had to have two people duel each other right now, who would it be and why? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain17753 Posts
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Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 25 2013 09:29 Dienosore wrote: Oh snap, early start! Hurray! I just caught up with the thread. A few things: - Snarf/Marv's plan to use all of our time to get a majority before dueling seems like the best and most logical path of action. No complaints there. - Yamato, easy on the trigger amigo. I can see some merit to what you are saying, though. It might be very beneficial for the town to have someone like you who is willing to duel in order to prove alignment, as long as you follow the general town consensus. Could help to keep everyone honest... ...On the other hand, you might be mafia... in which case having you as a baseline enforcer would only result in towny deaths. Until you get cleared somehow, I think we should stick with the plan to just take our time. - Corazon: I don't know you, therefore I don't not like you! <3 Not sure why marv is putting doubt on you already, but I generally trust him. Is there something about you I should know? Check out this rampant pandering. If you had to set up a first post that didn't step on anyone's toes, this would be the template. Multiple topics, wishy wasy attitude, no hard stances on anything, and of course "finish with a question". I mean, I could go post by post and show you examples of inefficient town play but I'll just show you examples from his most "productive post" + Show Spoiler + On February 25 2013 16:24 Dienosore wrote: I've cooled off a bit on Adam. If he still wants to get some, I'm here to call his bluff, but I think our time is better spent looking at a few other people right now. His level of activity is about 10x's what I have seen in past games already. The connection between Marv and Snarf has me puzzled. I don't know what to make of it. Marv has heat coming in from a few directions, which is understandable considering how he has played so far, but Snarf on the other hand... he started off posting strong, boldly claimed towny, then kind of fell off the planet when people started agreeing with his policies. Seems fishy to just dump out like that after everything started agreeing and the spotlight was moved away. Secondly, Oatsmaster jumped into the conversation a bit late, but the way he did it has me a little suspicious. He instantly threw doubt on Cora and started attacking Marv. He hasn't said anything super incriminating yet, but he is definitely on my 'To Watch' list. Overall, there just really isn't enough info yet for me to be 100% about any read. I'm not even going to pretend I'm that good at mafia after two games to where I can call people out like that on day one. I definitely have a few suspicions, though I don't really see a reason to muddy up the waters with my speculation right now. The key themes that hes trying to get across to you are as follows: - He is not good at this game. - No one is talking enough to know anything. - Let's not jump to conclusions. But here's the kicker- "I don't really see a reason to muddy up the waters with my speculation right now". Yeah, let's not use time to discuss our scum reads.... let's keep them to yourself so you don't get any unwanted attention..... Great plan. Between this and the "my diagrams aren't ready" defense he's set himself up to lurk for the next three weeks. Oh and don't forget..... + Show Spoiler + On February 25 2013 16:29 Dienosore wrote: How about yourself, Yamato? Anything worth sharing right now? Always finish with a question. | ||
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Corazon
United States3230 Posts
On February 26 2013 06:57 Acrofales wrote: @Cora and Zarepath: you just got out of a game mislynching Sylencia. Nevertheless, you both seem quite convinced he's scum. What puts his play apart from his early play in NMM 37? Good question. The main factor is that he's done nothing to change his town play. If he was town, he would be trying to learn from his mistakes and avoid being mislynched again. He would be a lot more proactive in his playstyle than if he were scum. He's just trying to take advantage of the fact that we have been at our throats and has decide to take a step back and lurked. When WB, Mocsta, and I were at each other's throats last game, Sylencia came in and at least made an interjection about the possibilities of WB's claim. Here, he's made little contribution towards the discussion, and has already tried to get me emotionally charged at him and make a distraction. @Syl: I lynched you last game for not having reads...care to share some thoughts now? | ||
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
I agree Dein also looks flimsy but these two are my biggest concerns. Especially Keirathi's "catch up on the thread" followed by essentially mimicing + buddying marv: On February 26 2013 01:09 Keirathi wrote: Holy thread explosion, Batman. Sorry, I got super busy yesterday afternoon, then when I got home last night my power was out. Catching up now. On February 26 2013 02:47 Keirathi wrote: Remember, thrawn wasn't on-board witht he "two scummy people duel" idea. He said making all those policies was pointless. So thrawn, why exactly do you want Hapa to duel? Do you think he is scum, or town? What is your ideal scenario for a duel? A strong townie vs a scum suspect? Or two scum suspects against each other? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On February 26 2013 03:50 marvellosity wrote: Oh, and by the way (apologies for multi-post), basically the first and last things hapa said so far in this thread make me suspicious of him: I'm not seeing any of this "super-paranoid" at all. I don't get what's bad about this at all. I started playing the opening hours of the game yesterday, and I've been sleeping/in-school for the last 15 hours. Making snap judgements about my behavior based on the opening hours of the game is stupid and ignorant of the context of my play. On February 26 2013 02:57 yamato77 wrote: The scummiest thing about Hapa is the complete lack of aggression in anything he's doing. What he is doing is also scummy, because it's not hunting scum. I don't even know what it is. I have no idea what his reads are at all. Same thing as above. You're calling me "super-scummy" for my actions in the opening hours, which is completely baseless. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9639 Posts
you should know the only way to prove your town if you are in fact town......... | ||
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Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 26 2013 06:19 cDgCorazon wrote: Hello! Being a bit late to the party, there are things that we all might have missed in the heat of the moment. Is there anything that you have found from the pervious discussion that you want to point out or that you want to discuss more? If you had to have two people duel each other right now, who would it be and why? Ok so I made a post on my best read right now which is Dienosore. If I had to pick two I'd go with Snarfs. Reason being I think early in the game your best chance to lynch scum is identify the low hanging fruit, ie. those that embody both scummy play and "noob" play. My idea is a bit WIFOM'y but anytime I've been mafia it's never been the experienced player that gets targeted early, it's always the seemingly "newer" player who leaves some subtle clue. Experienced players seem to make it through the first day without attracting too much attention, and as such need more time to evaluate. Snarfs filter is tough because it's obviously limited (not that I have much room to talk) but the major issues are just the pure conjecture coming out+ Show Spoiler + On February 26 2013 04:50 Snarfs wrote: Also adding this so I don't forget later: Right up until page 20 when a few more people showed up in the game, lots of talk was on Hapa but Corazon completely ignored that discussion and went after Oats, if I recall correctly. I'm a little rusty on how to interpret that, but it seemed noteworthy. halfheartedly probing questions with no follow-ups + Show Spoiler + On February 25 2013 03:59 Snarfs wrote: Do you not agree that the two worst looking players should duel then? And then, there's whatever the hell this is. On February 26 2013 05:35 Snarfs wrote: Since marv and yamato seem pretty happy with you so far though, I'm not going to really push you on this one since it's not a big priority and would probably just derail things. As I said, just making a note of things. Reading through the thread in one sitting gave me the chance to see just how everyone's feelings have been progressing. Yamato and later Marv have been increasingly "suspected" as town, for better or for worse, and as such it seems that rather than getting in a pissing match with townies, Snarfs took the easy way out, the way that he thought would not garner that much attention. But GAIZ!!111 He said he didn't want to "derail things". Let's think though, doesn't that sound similar to Dienosore's "muddy up the water" quote? Spoiler + Show Spoiler + It does Similar strategies, similar actions, and guess who haven't even mentioned each other yet this game..... | ||
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iamperfection
United States9639 Posts
On February 26 2013 06:07 zarepath wrote: I'm going to be mostly AFK for the rest of the Night so here are some reads/suspicions for the moment. Hapa The very first thing he does is claim town, which I really dislike. Proposes a policy. Suggests that all Cora wants to do is call Sylencia a dick... stoking the flames The 180 on iamp with not a lot of justification In the end he makes a fairly good defense (last post in his filter). The iamp 180 does look awful, but I can see the reasoning behind it. Oats Super spastic. Tons of questions. The other game I've played with Oats, this is how he played Day 1 in order to get information/discussion flowing. I am pretty sure that is his tactic now. But if literally zero cases or reads come out of it, his behavior is going to look scummy in retrospect. Keirathi Somebody else who soft-claimed town immediately, a thing I hate. Supposedly caught up with the thread but hasn't made his presence known in any substantial way. He needs to have opinions or something. Dienosore I feel like he is the stuffed animal of this game of mafia. He is cute and friendly and makes sweet pictures and hard to hate, but when night strikes he turns into an Agent of Evil and creepily plots our demise. Okay, so not really. His picture is potentially helpful/useful, and I like his tone, but he has really gone out of his way to talk about how friendly he is, which strikes me a little bit of Stranger In An Unmarked Van syndrome. He opts to be the nice welcoming guy to Cora when everyone else is finding excuses to hate him, and it just makes my heart swell. Then in his defense of his defense of Cora, he mentions multiple times how friendly he is. Why is he so concerned with looking friendly? Town doesn't need to worry how they look, just what they accomplish. Note that he also went out of his way to express how he is NOT good at catching scum. Why would town advertise that? Don't they want their arguments to hold sway? I want to see more of his conclusions from his mapping; undoubtedly several occur to him while he does the research. Adam What does Adam think about people not named Dienosore? Hard to tell. Snarfs Unless Snarfs has been mafia a million times in a row, his first line was a super annoying soft-town-claim that is not justified, in my opinion. Now that he's caught up I wonder what his other thoughts are. Sylencia I mentioned this earlier, but Sylencia looks the scummiest right now of all of the players. Others have contributed less/none, but the few things Sylencia has popped in to post fall easily under the Scum Motivated category. He has more work to do to stop looking scummy than anybody else. Just check his filter and the case makes itself. iamperfection His player list comment (assuming town will have the good players for some reason) sounds awful but when looked at, I can understand how it's simply just saying that there are so many good players we're bound to have at least one as town. His logic fails to account for the fact that mafia will also have good players, so it's not like town will now have it easy . He calls someone town REALLY early in the game, which something you can usually only do with confidence when you are scum. He calls Snarfs scummy also very early in the game, then tells other people to discuss it. I think this is kind of null, but worth bringing up because it was a unique read. He goes out of his way to answer for corazon, tell him who is scum. I don't know that I can see scum acting this... forwardly. He is unforgiving in his opinions and doesn't really bend at all to town, and he just has this weird vibe. I get a sense of unique thoughts coming from this man. He gives a bunch of town reads, which is apparently something he just does. This man is a Wild Card. I think I like him. (And I can also understand how someone would be certain that he's scum and then suddenly decide he's no longer scum.) this post is scummy as fuck at the top he says these are reads and suspicions but they aren't. 1. all he does is sum up what people did with no real conclusions 2. wishy washy as fuck( sums up several players actions..ie me hapa dino kier) but then has no conclusion on those players alignments one way or the other. This is scummy because hit is a good way to look like your contributing when you are in fact not 3. says stuff that doesn't make sense. ie hapa's 180 looks awful but he can see the reasoning behind it..... (then it is not awful) | ||
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