|
On February 20 2013 08:55 Sn0_Man wrote:
if the obs QT has their leading scum candidate at MYLO as our only remaining blue role and for most of the game (although not at the very end) I'm the only person on every town list around then I'm content with my play. I know I'm not the best at discerning who is scum, but If I can prove myself town early and have stuff to work with I feel like my contribution to town is acceptable.
I didn't see a way to make town play decently, so I got super lazy. I'm aware this isn't good town play. I still don't see a way I could have won the game (esp. not with this setup).
I am repeating what you alluded to above, but wanted to state it more explicitly
.
Town win as a collective.
One person stepping up "being established as innocent" does not mean town as a collective is doing anything right.
Though you suggest you didnt have the tools to be a great scum hunter; or town motivator... you still had the capability to read the thread and pressure SOMEBODY in general.
That was lacking from your play (long weekend or not); and as the main confirmed town read I believe it was your responsibility to create a sense a direction for town - whether right or wrong.
(and me to fight you  )
For example, when TestSubject became "confirmed town" he tried to create a direction, and was promptly killed..
though you were "near confirmed" town, you were never a threat enough to be considered seriously for the NK.. thats a HUGE problem.
|
|
|
On February 20 2013 09:38 JacobStrangelove wrote:
Also the sly lynch was unanimous, should have been alarm bells.
So was the SK lynch
I thought Syl was put into a "damned if you do; damned it you don't" situation of being forced to make a case on someone active; when in fact, he made a case on someone he thought was scum (and was right).
Town knowing the severity of the lynch situation; should have really questioned Sylencia defense/cases with more scrutinty.
Instead I was the first (and only... since I wrote Sevryn cases for him) one to respond; and obviously manipulated Sylecnia points against him. This could have been easily refuted - in my opinion.
|
Acrofales thanks for the note.. Great read and I agree on many all points.
And agree, cora case *SHOULD* have been released - and a town Mocsta woulda said let it come out; scum Mocsta said dont do it!!! (with Arnie voice-over)
|
On February 20 2013 10:08 JacobStrangelove wrote:
Lol greatest scum plan of all time. I would have let you live OO would have been so fun.
In fairness; we were just mulling over possiblities.
I dont think it actually would have transpired;
it was like a plan b
If you cant be arsed reading the QT.
it involved "submitting no KP" and claiming I was shot to fake a veteran claim
& bussing mandalor because he was AFK
But yes, I was still happy VE shat on the idea; was a good reality check.
|
On February 20 2013 10:08 Acrofales wrote:Also, Kita pm'd me that there isn't a host for the next newbie available  I can set it up, but I will be gone for the next 2 weekends. If there's a cohost available for the weekend, I'll set up another game. Don't have time to work out a setup, so it'll be more standard
Im taking a break from playing; so I could co-host if needed.
Is it just vote count + maybe writing flavour?
|
On February 20 2013 10:10 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 10:09 Mocsta wrote:
Acrofales thanks for the note.. Great read and I agree on many all points.
And agree, cora case *SHOULD* have been released - and a town Mocsta woulda said let it come out; scum Mocsta said dont do it!!! (with Arnie voice-over) The case was on Zare. I said it before I looked at his filter, and I started to write up a case, but I didn't find enough conclusive evidence.
IIRC in-game, you suggested you had a case ready to unload.
|
On February 20 2013 10:16 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 10:11 Mocsta wrote:On February 20 2013 10:08 JacobStrangelove wrote:
Lol greatest scum plan of all time. I would have let you live OO would have been so fun. In fairness; we were just mulling over possiblities. I dont think it actually would have transpired; it was like a plan b If you cant be arsed reading the QT. it involved "submitting no KP" and claiming I was shot to fake a veteran claim & bussing mandalor because he was AFK But yes, I was still happy VE shat on the idea; was a good reality check. Dammit VE that would've been the scum basically committing suicide. Mocsta didn't have crumbs, I did. T.T Oh well.
I actually crumbed JK lolz
|
In regards to Acro final points; I have to say
that was one of the biggest lessons I learnt in my second newbie (34)
Ironically with Sylencia as scum!!!
It was 4 ppl left: me (confirmed town), zarepath (confirmed town), jampidampi & Sylencia.
I had a town read on Sylencia, and scum read on jampidampi.
The entire cycle, I just hammered the shit out of jampidampi with my confirmation bias; and played a large component in losing the game.
The point: When someone is a clear front runner for a lynch; you *NEED* to question what *IS NOT* being questioned.
Sounds easy and intuitive; but most often we feed our own confirmation bias, and forget to figure out what is actually missing...
Case in point: this Sylencia lynch.
|
On February 20 2013 11:00 JacobStrangelove wrote:
I have a sudden urge to want to write flavour but I feel my flavour would be along the same lines and quality as Axlegreasers posts...
Beat you to it Dear
On February 20 2013 10:15 Mocsta wrote:
Im taking a break from playing; so I could co-host if needed.
Is it just vote count + maybe writing flavour?
Perhaps our forces can unite.
I have the Mocsta effect; you have the strangest of love; together, they combine into.... <AWESOME flavour>
|
On February 20 2013 10:59 TestSubject893 wrote:
Cora: Why were you trying so hard to discredit me? Its not the end of the world to be suspicious, but the more you refused to scumhunt and spend effort hating on me, the more I thought there was no way you were town.
I will let him answer this for himself; but my 2c from recollection.
<just note, I was privy to knowing you were both town>
I thought corazon could have responded to you less harshly; but i could see his point of view.
I knew you were both town and thought you were wasting your time on him; and thus, wasting the influence options of being confirmed town.
With that in mind; corazon expressed -quite vivdly- the same mentality.. why are you wasting time on "me" go hunt real scum.
Because his knowledge was that he was town, and 'knew' it was a waste of time; and probably auto-assume everyone thought the same.
I said this in one of my recent games (non-newbie) where some one kept beating the same drum over and over again; and think it applies here.
On February 07 2013 14:48 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 14:39 Djodref wrote:
(1) -You have failed to properly address my point against you multiple time, you answers are deliberately missing the fact that your attacks against Oats were unjustified from a town point of view. You attack someone if you think he is scum, not to have a feud because you have different ways of playing the game nor giving hints on his scum meta. I learnt my lesson yesterday and am walking away from this as of now.I have answered the question(s) at hand several times to multiple parties; its simple, you do not like my answers. However you are making zero effort to manifest your question with a different approach. i.e. You keep asking the same question, I keep giving the same answer. Either: - Lead with a case and a vote, or;
- accept what I am saying and move on.
The choice is that simple.
I am saying this because, I see this sequence of events on TL Mafia a lot (even though I am relatively new)
corazon made no real effort to be pleasant, effectively pissing you off to tunnel him more.
And you made no effort to paraphrase and consider there was a misunderstanding (which is generally the simplest solution)
|
On February 20 2013 12:27 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 07:55 cDgCorazon wrote:On February 20 2013 07:52 geript wrote:
Mocsta, well played. I think you really aimed Cora pretty well. I think the major thing that killing me N1 did was allow you to control the town directive without appearing in charge. I think you had a number of really good posts. It's just hard to read anyone when so many people lurk so hard. While you're here can I ask you why you are mad at me and never want to play with me again? Because you played like an asshole the whole game. I have no problems with people being wrong, that happens. I can deal with pushing bad reads. But I stand behind everything I said about you two creating a negative town atmosphere; at least Mocsta had a reason to be harming atmosphere. I think part of the reason for no consolidation was the fact that no one wanted to deal with the bullshit you'd give them. I think I even stated in game, there's a difference between being aggressive (which can be good) and being an asshole (which is always worthless). Letting off the gas can be as effective in reading people as putting it on.
I think this is over generalized.
It takes two to tango; yes Corazon was unpleasant at times; I can understand why he choose to 'combust' the way he did.
corazon was beating the warbaby drum; and no one reciprocated - which is not a problem. Its that IIRC his case was essentially ignored; no critiques, no extensions etc just plain ignored for a "policy lurker lynch"
Pretty frustrating if you ask me. That doesnt give reason to behave the way he did; but, Im more pointing out its not like he wanted to be that way intentionally (I hope)
|
On February 20 2013 12:38 Aquanim wrote:I'ma quote something I wrote in obs QT. Show nested quote +
The thing which has really frusturated me, even just watching this game, is the tendency of certain players to tell everyone else what they can and can't do.
"Make cases on lurkers!"
"Don't make cases on lurkers!"
"Don't make cases on your scumbuddies!"
"Don't make cases on my scumbuddies!"
"You're not allowed to ask questions!"
It obviously hasn't helped them find scum at all and it's made the game really painful to read, let alone play.
Believe it or not; I agree - because it leads to confirmation bias (ironic coming from me)
HOWEVER.. I think the above is an unwritten 'law' regardless.
Some things can only be achieved effectively when you have sufficient town cred/established innocence.
Otherwise it is likely to just fall upon deaf ears; this is human nature - whether tunneled or not.
e.g.
If a 3-post lurker makes a case on the most active/vocal person; who has been speaking within logic/reason. Most likely the 3-post lurker post will be ignored.
|
On February 20 2013 12:43 cDgCorazon wrote:
If you think I played like an asshole, you need to go look at NMM XXXVI. That was a shitfest.
It gets frustrating when your case does not gain any traction (especially after WB's emotional reaction to it), and then you have to go with a lynch that you really wish you didn't need to make, get called out for it (it was a fair case) multiple times even though you've already answered it, and then have to deal with another guy tunneling you for the same reasons. Perhaps if you guys didn't irritate me with your play so much, I wouldn't snap as easily. Ever thought about that?
You need to chillax matey and go back to ya playstyle from NMM34.
You were calm, more introverted and looking for rational, well-reasoned play. Its why you were shot N1.
Something happened to you in NMM36, and you carried it with you to this game. Mafia is a game of 'intense emotions' people are going to shit you to tears; and if scum know they can compromise you... they will try.
Only YOU are accountable for YOUR actions. No one else.
|
On February 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 12:49 Mocsta wrote:On February 20 2013 12:38 Aquanim wrote:I'ma quote something I wrote in obs QT.
The thing which has really frusturated me, even just watching this game, is the tendency of certain players to tell everyone else what they can and can't do.
"Make cases on lurkers!"
"Don't make cases on lurkers!"
"Don't make cases on your scumbuddies!"
"Don't make cases on my scumbuddies!"
"You're not allowed to ask questions!"
It obviously hasn't helped them find scum at all and it's made the game really painful to read, let alone play.
Believe it or not; I agree - because it leads to confirmation bias (ironic coming from me) HOWEVER.. I think the above is an unwritten 'law' regardless. Some things can only be achieved effectively when you have sufficient town cred/established innocence. Otherwise it is likely to just fall upon deaf ears; this is human nature - whether tunneled or not. e.g. If a 3-post lurker makes a case on the most active/vocal person; who has been speaking within logic/reason. Most likely the 3-post lurker post will be ignored. Sure, sure... but if you tell the 3-post lurker to shut up and do whatever you tell them when they DO make a contribution, you'll be left with a 4-post lurker for the rest of the game. Which is hardly ideal.
I can agree with that point; clearly there are multitudes of cons.
But to lambaste corazon solely is unwarranted. - I know that you are generalizing; but the majority of the thread is targeting corazon.
Corazon was not the only proponent of "damned if you, damned if you don't" logic in this game.
Sn0_Man (i think?) exhibited the same tendencies - and I did call him out on it. (Coulda been TestSubject, cant remember)
|
On February 20 2013 12:59 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 12:58 geript wrote:On February 20 2013 12:43 cDgCorazon wrote:
If you think I played like an asshole, you need to go look at NMM XXXVI. That was a shitfest.
It gets frustrating when your case does not gain any traction (especially after WB's emotional reaction to it), and then you have to go with a lynch that you really wish you didn't need to make, get called out for it (it was a fair case) multiple times even though you've already answered it, and then have to deal with another guy tunneling you for the same reasons. Perhaps if you guys didn't irritate me with your play so much, I wouldn't snap as easily. Ever thought about that? If your case doesn't gain any traction, then maybe your case is bad. I know that when I saw your initial case I thought it was both hasty and weak at best. I didn't feel bad about the Mocsta case being set aside as I didn't think it was a great case; I kept on wanting to make a better case on him but just couldn't find it. My point was that how you acted in the thread didn't help to either the atmosphere or to your case being taken seriously. Also, if multiple people are re-asking the same question, then perhaps you should go back and look at your answers and see if you actually answered the question. There were a number of times in the game when you deflected answers and questions instead of just being straight up. Are you still waiting for an answer on the Glurio question? All I got from your argument was that I didn't vote for WB and that I voted for Glurio. I'm not trying to be mean.
I actually think zarepath figured this all out before the bitter end
Shame he didnt chime in earlier; woulda made for an exciting mislynch on zarepath
On February 20 2013 01:17 zarepath wrote:
Mocsta was the momentum for the Glurio lynch.
However, we can say that Cora was only trying to do what Mocsta had asked for earlier -- consolidation.
I concur with this. I think corazon had enough of a town read on me; to follow my vote and consolidate.
I dont think he wanted to admit it; because it doesnt look good (considering it was a mislynch... and everything everyone else pointed).
I know there are times i make decisions in mafia; it doesnt pan out well.. and ppl questioning me, and i avoid giving them the answer I know they want.. BECAUSE. i know they will twist it to suit their confirmation bias.
|
On February 20 2013 13:05 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 13:02 Mocsta wrote:On February 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote:On February 20 2013 12:49 Mocsta wrote:On February 20 2013 12:38 Aquanim wrote:I'ma quote something I wrote in obs QT.
The thing which has really frusturated me, even just watching this game, is the tendency of certain players to tell everyone else what they can and can't do.
"Make cases on lurkers!"
"Don't make cases on lurkers!"
"Don't make cases on your scumbuddies!"
"Don't make cases on my scumbuddies!"
"You're not allowed to ask questions!"
It obviously hasn't helped them find scum at all and it's made the game really painful to read, let alone play.
Believe it or not; I agree - because it leads to confirmation bias (ironic coming from me) HOWEVER.. I think the above is an unwritten 'law' regardless. Some things can only be achieved effectively when you have sufficient town cred/established innocence. Otherwise it is likely to just fall upon deaf ears; this is human nature - whether tunneled or not. e.g. If a 3-post lurker makes a case on the most active/vocal person; who has been speaking within logic/reason. Most likely the 3-post lurker post will be ignored. Sure, sure... but if you tell the 3-post lurker to shut up and do whatever you tell them when they DO make a contribution, you'll be left with a 4-post lurker for the rest of the game. Which is hardly ideal. I can agree with that point; clearly there are multitudes of cons. But to lambaste corazon solely is unwarranted. - I know that you are generalizing; but the majority of the thread is targeting corazon. Corazon was not the only proponent of "damned if you, damned if you don't" logic in this game. Sn0_Man (i think?) exhibited the same tendencies - and I did call him out on it. (Coulda been TestSubject, cant remember) I called TS out on it.
Its not a competition BUT since you asked
On February 12 2013 14:41 Mocsta wrote:
Cora
u approach warbaby as damned if u do. Damned if u dont.
On February 16 2013 08:55 cDgCorazon wrote:
Why is it "damned if you do, damned if you don't"? That's the same stuff I did that took all of the momentum out of the WB case... 4 days baby
|
Wow, the post-game has way more activity than D2->N3 lol already Nicely done guys.
|
|
|
The lurking situation is difficult and to me is the same as cheese rush in sc.
Somehow can get u 2 masters/diamond, but u actually need real skill to get to gm.
Its funny was reading some guides last night from 2011. Content was identical to complaints in 2013. Too much lurking, not enough analysis... Fact is, lurking leads to relatively easy mislynches in most games... And why wouldn't lazy players use an easy to work strat? Until players in general lift the skill cap, the lurking philosophy will always be valid option for perhaps a majority of players...sigh
≠========
War baby its OK baby. I don't need you to praise my play. I agree town had this game lost due to inactivity.
Town losing so badly (I.e. flawless victory to scum) had nothing to do with bad town however, and that is the point u r missing.
Zarepath commentary at end of d3 was on the money. And all the facts were there to easily lynch sevryn throughout each cycle. Mandalors contributions were null at best as well. Ohhh and Apparently u were the only guy in game and in OBS qt to be onto me as well....
This all suggests it should have been tighter with at least one to two scum casualties.
Dance around that as much as u want due to town lurking, but the above still holds.
=====>======
As I said. I don't need the praise. I know the things I did worked. I'm actually trying to help u improve our play because this game is
not about what you know... But about what you convince others to believe
I.e. there is many good reasons sylencia was lynched. And most tie into the above.
In all seriousness his defense and no lynch vote were not as scummy as made out to be.
Good luck in future games and hopefully next time we are in the same qt
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
