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On February 21 2013 16:57 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 16:53 Oatsmaster wrote:I managed to correctly identify prplhz as town early on in the game by similar heuristics, You dont get to claim that your method of reading people is good because YOU mislynched Prp. The mislynch was days later, and it was an oversight mainly. But it's besides the point, because the point is that both of them are very similar, and that you have to use similar logic to arrive at the conclusion that they are town. If you're not going to do any meaningful reading or analysis of your own on this matter, Oats, then just sheep me. You'll be glad you did in approximately 42 hours.
Wait a second If anything Oats should sheep me.
I was on the Wagon of Justice long before you were. I where on a lesser Wagon of Justice (of snarfs).
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11589 Posts
On February 21 2013 16:59 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 16:57 yamato77 wrote:On February 21 2013 16:53 Oatsmaster wrote:I managed to correctly identify prplhz as town early on in the game by similar heuristics, You dont get to claim that your method of reading people is good because YOU mislynched Prp. The mislynch was days later, and it was an oversight mainly. But it's besides the point, because the point is that both of them are very similar, and that you have to use similar logic to arrive at the conclusion that they are town. If you're not going to do any meaningful reading or analysis of your own on this matter, Oats, then just sheep me. You'll be glad you did in approximately 42 hours. Wait a second If anything Oats should sheep me. I was on the Wagon of Justice long before you were. I where on a lesser Wagon of Justice (of snarfs).
You have to sheep your town reads, silly, or you're doing it wrong.
Another reason it makes zero sense for phagga to want to kill jay, but hey, I think we all know he's mafia, too.
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EBWODP
On February 21 2013 16:59 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 16:57 yamato77 wrote:On February 21 2013 16:53 Oatsmaster wrote:I managed to correctly identify prplhz as town early on in the game by similar heuristics, You dont get to claim that your method of reading people is good because YOU mislynched Prp. The mislynch was days later, and it was an oversight mainly. But it's besides the point, because the point is that both of them are very similar, and that you have to use similar logic to arrive at the conclusion that they are town. If you're not going to do any meaningful reading or analysis of your own on this matter, Oats, then just sheep me. You'll be glad you did in approximately 42 hours. Wait a second If anything Oats should sheep me. I was on the Wagon of Justice long before you were. *You were* on a lesser Wagon of Justice (of snarfs).
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Go read the damn games yourself, Oats. I can't possibly hope to encapsulate the broad-strokes analysis of Jay's filters in just a few posts.
Yamato says: I am too lazy to do it properly and instead, will use long words in an attempt to confuse you.
Lol.
Jay, your filter is pretty scummy, but the stuff debears says is scummy actually isnt scummy.
At this point, I just wanna lynch VE.
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11589 Posts
On February 21 2013 17:01 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +Go read the damn games yourself, Oats. I can't possibly hope to encapsulate the broad-strokes analysis of Jay's filters in just a few posts. Yamato says: I am too lazy to do it properly and instead, will use long words in an attempt to confuse you. Lol. Jay, your filter is pretty scummy, but the stuff debears says is scummy actually isnt scummy. At this point, I just wanna lynch VE.
Okay, then go take an extended break from this game, and when you come back mafia will have conceded.
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On February 21 2013 17:00 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 16:59 jaybrundage wrote:On February 21 2013 16:57 yamato77 wrote:On February 21 2013 16:53 Oatsmaster wrote:I managed to correctly identify prplhz as town early on in the game by similar heuristics, You dont get to claim that your method of reading people is good because YOU mislynched Prp. The mislynch was days later, and it was an oversight mainly. But it's besides the point, because the point is that both of them are very similar, and that you have to use similar logic to arrive at the conclusion that they are town. If you're not going to do any meaningful reading or analysis of your own on this matter, Oats, then just sheep me. You'll be glad you did in approximately 42 hours. Wait a second If anything Oats should sheep me. I was on the Wagon of Justice long before you were. I where on a lesser Wagon of Justice (of snarfs). You have to sheep your town reads, silly, or you're doing it wrong. Another reason it makes zero sense for phagga to want to kill jay, but hey, I think we all know he's mafia, too.
Ok look I was starting to write a post where I wanted to point out how ridicoulus all those associations are you guys are drawing. I started to list the different suspects being thrown around, and it looked like this:
These people stated yesterday that they think debears is scum:
Sloosh, Cheese, Jay, Oats
These people stated the they think Jay is scum:
VE, Oats, Debears, Phagga
These people statet they think phagga is scum:
Sloosh, Cheese, Jay, VE and with a weaker read Yamato.
Let me colour that list with my town reads/flips:
debears
Sloosh, Cheese, Jay, Oats
Jay
VE, Oats, Debears, Phagga
phagga
Sloosh, Cheese, Jay, VE and with a weaker read Yamato.
Ok, I see the light now. I somehow always thought that all those associations are convoluted and everyone is blaming everyone else and we are just circle jerking here. I see now I was wrong. I will go and read over old town games and the one scum game from jay and then post what I find, and what of it is applicable for this game and what not. So not lynching jay for now.
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11589 Posts
I'm lynching VE today, but I will officially announce to the thread that my idea of who else is mafia is officially different than before.
I'm not going to say who, or why today. Tomorrow I might. Today, we lynch VE.
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On February 20 2013 01:41 yamato77 wrote:
VE has done shit all this game. He wasn't even responsible for Snarf's lynch. He wanted prplhz to die over him. I think his Snarfs read was just too look good if he got caught and flipped mafia. He never pushed him, as he claimed. He barely pushed anyone. He makes his reasons and then afk's. I think he might be the piece of the puzzle I've been missing.
This is the whole of Yamato's case against me. His assertion is that I didn't want Snarfs to die, that I never "pushed" Snarfs. Here is my case on Snarfs.
On February 07 2013 09:35 VisceraEyes wrote:I think Snarfs might well be scum. So here's a little push in his direction, care of the guy who isn't pushing anyone. First of all, something I noticed last night. Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 14:25 Snarfs wrote:On February 06 2013 11:58 Oatsmaster wrote:
Also, WHERE DID YOU GO VE? Hmm, disappear while two other players start shitting up the thread? Congrats VE, you're already #1 on my list. ##vote VisceraEyesAs far as the voting mechanics go, it really is a ton of WIFOm. You're both saying the same thing in different ways. Yes, we lynch scum and we need to not look scummy. Yes, scum is going to try to trick us into debating ad infinitum about the composition of their nominations. That pretty much ends the discussion, doesn't it? Look very closely at everything the nominees say and lynch the scum. No need to over complicate it. If it comes down to multiple people contributing well to town, we can discuss it then. Here we see Snarfs' first vote on me. He's convinced of my alignment based on the fact that I left the thread "when two other players start shitting up the thread". But...why? Why is that indicative of me being scum? The only way that makes sense is if he is assuming that Oats and Mocsta are both town...and this is a conclusion he couldn't have already come to at this point in the game. This alone isn't really enough for me to call him scum, but then we see how he pushes me after this: Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 06:08 Snarfs wrote:
Just to let Cheese and everyone else know, I am here and reading along with the thread. I have class for another hour and then I'm heading home so I will be able to respond and properly formulate my thoughts then.
As a preview though, I'm still getting a bad vibe from VE. It's a feeling right now but I wouldn't mind more people looking at him closely and just really asking if he's trying to find scum. Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 08:44 Snarfs wrote:
All right, so here are my thoughts:
1) On VE:
My vote on VE was initially because of exactly what I said - of the three people that came into the conversation, he was the quickest to abandon it when things got heated. Now, he claims that he was commuting and I can't exactly dispute that.
But since then, I've had no reason to move my vote off of him. Look at the way he's saying things. Who is he even pressuring? Read through his filter and try to figure out who he's pushing. Palmar!? We're not lynching Palmar day 1, why waste time? As for the other people VE is "pressuring", there's no vindication. Phagga? Nope. yamato? Maybe, I can't really tell. When VE is town, he pushes people. He pushes them hard to determine their alignment and it's obvious he's pushing people. I think this is scum VE.
**snip** Anything new in there? Just a weak-ass meta read based on 24 hours of D1. But he asked for others' opinions TWICE in those two posts. We have players who haven't said fuck all. He's saying we can't lynch Palmar today...why? Why the fuck not? He's not doing shit. But he wants to lynch me? Based on what? A weak ass meta read and an absence I've explained? It's cognitive dissonance. Why would he be against lynching Palmar D1 and not against lynching VE D1 for the same reason? I mean, okay if he thinks Palmar is better for town than me assuming we're both town, that's one thing...but he doesn't say as much. He simply shuts down the Palmar lynch for no reason...when no one is even voting for Palmar but me. Now I'm at a crossroads. I want to kill Palmar with the holy fire of righeousness. But I also want Snarfs to hang. I want others' opinions of this, because at this point I could go either way. Kill the scummy lurker who doesn't give a shit, or kill the scummy active participant? Right now I'm leaning lynching Palmar, but if there's more support for a Snarfs lynch I'm all over that shit.
As you can see, it's clear that Snarfs is a scumread. At this point he's my ONLY scumread. But obviously I'm also pushing for Palmar to die...a townie. I think that's where this whole breakdown is and why yamato is freaking the fuck out. He thinks that I'm pushing Snarfs to the side in favor of trying to kill townies. This is simply not the case, the problem is that I had this idea of how the game should be played (kill lurkers, find scum in process, profit) and I was waiting on input from players I trusted on my Snarfs case.
Players like slOosh, Palmar, yamato...players I knew could tell me if I was seeing something where there was nothing or not. But this never came, and the thread moved on. So eventually I just kinda forgot about Snarfs - especially since at some point Palmar delurked and showed that he A) was NOT reading the thread, but B) did NOT want JX lynched. I took this as pretty much a scumclaim from him, because he not only didn't comment on my Snarfs case but he also was trying to derail the lynch OFF a lurker AFTER he'd reached majority. I thought that made him scum 100%.
So here is the sequence of D1 events as they happened.
1) Snarfs makes case on VE
2) VE makes case on Snarfs
3) VE decides the lurker is public enemy #1 in this setup
4) VE votes Snarfs in attempt to get wagon going
5) VE realizes after Palmar delurks that he must be scum based on the thread actions he's taken
6) VE votes JX in based on Palmar's delurk and attempt to push wagon off JX
So this is D1. I'll continue trying to explain my thought process later, as I have to get ready for work...but know that I'm only doing this because I believe that SOMEONE is willing to listen to reason. It honestly looks like I'm going to get lynched and town is going to lose...I want to believe that this isn't all in vain. Please keep an open mind, because I'm town. :/
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Who is scum VE?
At this point, the only thing that could get votes off you is finding someone scummier than you
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I intend to tell you just that - after I'm done pwnzing Yamato's shit case.
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I really want to find scum, and the more input you guys give, the easier it is.
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Here you go Yamato. While I don't address your case quote for quote, this post has direct relations to the posts you have questioned in yours. Your biggest fallacy is that you don't look at the context of what is going on in the thread. You just quoted his filter without thinking at all about the game as a whole.
Why VE is town
The Mocsta/Oats Shitfest
+ Show Spoiler +On February 06 2013 16:43 VisceraEyes wrote:
No I get that part Moc and I totally agree - join me in my crusade against the unholy lurker demographic and we'll purge this town.
We're all three of us (you me and Oats) saying the same thing...that everyone needs to contribute. I think the breakdown is that we all seem to have different motives when we actually don't.
Oats = Shut up and scumhunt
Moc = Improve town atmosphere
VE = Kill the lurker.
I submit that in the name of moving the game forward, we all recognize that those three conclusions are all means to the same end: finding and eliminating scum. In this way, we can all focus on what matters: the posts of those who haven't contributed yet. What do you say guys? Truce? On February 06 2013 17:06 VisceraEyes wrote:
Why is that a scumtell? Can't Mocsta be town and think you're serious? Or couldn't he be town and, as you say, misinterpret what you're saying to gauge your reaction? Why does he have to be scum based on that? On February 07 2013 03:13 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm going to play devil's advocate here. At the point in the game where Mocsta was most active, over half of the people who have checked in now had not at the time. Does that, in your mind, explain the "lack of scumhunting" you're seeing here yamato?
I want to kill Palmar for being a useless...thing...that is useless...
VE is one of a few people who took time to shut up both Oats and Mocsta. Shit fests like these are beneficial to scum because it's hard to accomplish anything in the thread.
Not only that, but he took a reasonable approach to helping Mocsta from being tunneled for no reason.
His read on Palmar vs that on snarfs
On February 07 2013 03:28 VisceraEyes wrote:
Oh neat, Palmar didn't even comment on random lynching. Another infallible scum tell for our icelandic friend.
##Vote: Palmar
One of the good indications for good players being scum is their lack of opinion of things going on in the thread, namely stupid things like an RNG lynch. Usually, when good town players like Foolish, Sandroba, and Palmar dont' make a mention of these types of things they are scum.
On February 07 2013 08:29 VisceraEyes wrote:
Why aren't you doing shit? You can't be scared of NKs, it's like you don't give a fuck. And in my experience a Palmar that doesn't give a fuck is a scum Palmar...and I hate scum. I FUCKING HATE SCUM PALMAR
This is another good point, and a main reason why all of you lynched Palmar. In a game without nks, Palmar didn't do shit. Enough said.
Palmar did not show up at all day 1. As town, I have seen palmar either be active, including himself in major happenings in the thread, or I've seen him do so in a trolling matter. The fact that Palmar lurked so hard is something way off for this type of game.
His read on palmar was sensible.
His push on snarfs day 1
I want to show the votecount for this part. It would explain alot of what was going on in the thread.
On February 08 2013 10:02 GMarshal wrote:
Day 1 Vote Count:
Oatsmaster (1):
Mocsta
Mocsta,
Djodref
JieXian
Mocsta (0):
Mocsta
Oatsmaster
JieXian
Yamato77
VisceraEyes (2):
Snarfs
prplhz
prplhz (1):
Palmar
VisceraEyes
Mocsta
Palmar (2):
VisceraEyes
Djodref
Oatsmaster
Mocsta
JieXian
Yamato77 (0):
SlOosh
Mocsta
Snarfs (1):
Mr. Cheesecake
Oatsmaster
Oatsmaster
VisceraEyes
Djodref (0):
jaybrundage
SlOosh (0):
Oatsmaster
JieXian (6):
Yamato77
Phagga
Oatsmaster
Mocsta
Oatsmaster
Mocsta
Mr. Cheesecake
jaybrundage
VisceraEyes
JieXian is currently set to be lynched. slOosh has not voted.
You have 1 hour left until the end of the day.
How many votes were ever on snarfs at one time? 2. Oats had backed off before VE voted.
What does that mean? The snarfs lynch never gained momentum. There weren't 5 other people saying "hey snarfs is scum." You can push all you want on a lynch day 1, but if no one shows up on it, you have to find another lynch as town and keep that one in your back pocket.
There were people like Mocsta unwilling to vote him.
Now, let's look at VE's post on snafs
On February 07 2013 09:35 VisceraEyes wrote:I think Snarfs might well be scum. So here's a little push in his direction, care of the guy who isn't pushing anyone. First of all, something I noticed last night. Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 14:25 Snarfs wrote:On February 06 2013 11:58 Oatsmaster wrote:
Also, WHERE DID YOU GO VE? Hmm, disappear while two other players start shitting up the thread? Congrats VE, you're already #1 on my list. ##vote VisceraEyesAs far as the voting mechanics go, it really is a ton of WIFOm. You're both saying the same thing in different ways. Yes, we lynch scum and we need to not look scummy. Yes, scum is going to try to trick us into debating ad infinitum about the composition of their nominations. That pretty much ends the discussion, doesn't it? Look very closely at everything the nominees say and lynch the scum. No need to over complicate it. If it comes down to multiple people contributing well to town, we can discuss it then. Here we see Snarfs' first vote on me. He's convinced of my alignment based on the fact that I left the thread "when two other players start shitting up the thread". But...why? Why is that indicative of me being scum? The only way that makes sense is if he is assuming that Oats and Mocsta are both town...and this is a conclusion he couldn't have already come to at this point in the game. This alone isn't really enough for me to call him scum, but then we see how he pushes me after this: Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 06:08 Snarfs wrote:
Just to let Cheese and everyone else know, I am here and reading along with the thread. I have class for another hour and then I'm heading home so I will be able to respond and properly formulate my thoughts then.
As a preview though, I'm still getting a bad vibe from VE. It's a feeling right now but I wouldn't mind more people looking at him closely and just really asking if he's trying to find scum. Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 08:44 Snarfs wrote:
All right, so here are my thoughts:
1) On VE:
My vote on VE was initially because of exactly what I said - of the three people that came into the conversation, he was the quickest to abandon it when things got heated. Now, he claims that he was commuting and I can't exactly dispute that.
But since then, I've had no reason to move my vote off of him. Look at the way he's saying things. Who is he even pressuring? Read through his filter and try to figure out who he's pushing. Palmar!? We're not lynching Palmar day 1, why waste time? As for the other people VE is "pressuring", there's no vindication. Phagga? Nope. yamato? Maybe, I can't really tell. When VE is town, he pushes people. He pushes them hard to determine their alignment and it's obvious he's pushing people. I think this is scum VE.
**snip** Anything new in there? Just a weak-ass meta read based on 24 hours of D1. But he asked for others' opinions TWICE in those two posts. We have players who haven't said fuck all. He's saying we can't lynch Palmar today...why? Why the fuck not? He's not doing shit. But he wants to lynch me? Based on what? A weak ass meta read and an absence I've explained? It's cognitive dissonance. Why would he be against lynching Palmar D1 and not against lynching VE D1 for the same reason? I mean, okay if he thinks Palmar is better for town than me assuming we're both town, that's one thing...but he doesn't say as much. He simply shuts down the Palmar lynch for no reason...when no one is even voting for Palmar but me. Now I'm at a crossroads. I want to kill Palmar with the holy fire of righeousness. But I also want Snarfs to hang. I want others' opinions of this, because at this point I could go either way. Kill the scummy lurker who doesn't give a shit, or kill the scummy active participant? Right now I'm leaning lynching Palmar, but if there's more support for a Snarfs lynch I'm all over that shit.
On February 07 2013 09:35 VisceraEyes wrote:I think Snarfs might well be scum. So here's a little push in his direction, care of the guy who isn't pushing anyone. First of all, something I noticed last night. Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 14:25 Snarfs wrote:On February 06 2013 11:58 Oatsmaster wrote:
Also, WHERE DID YOU GO VE? Hmm, disappear while two other players start shitting up the thread? Congrats VE, you're already #1 on my list. ##vote VisceraEyesAs far as the voting mechanics go, it really is a ton of WIFOm. You're both saying the same thing in different ways. Yes, we lynch scum and we need to not look scummy. Yes, scum is going to try to trick us into debating ad infinitum about the composition of their nominations. That pretty much ends the discussion, doesn't it? Look very closely at everything the nominees say and lynch the scum. No need to over complicate it. If it comes down to multiple people contributing well to town, we can discuss it then. Here we see Snarfs' first vote on me. He's convinced of my alignment based on the fact that I left the thread "when two other players start shitting up the thread". But...why? Why is that indicative of me being scum? The only way that makes sense is if he is assuming that Oats and Mocsta are both town...and this is a conclusion he couldn't have already come to at this point in the game. This alone isn't really enough for me to call him scum, but then we see how he pushes me after this: Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 06:08 Snarfs wrote:
Just to let Cheese and everyone else know, I am here and reading along with the thread. I have class for another hour and then I'm heading home so I will be able to respond and properly formulate my thoughts then.
As a preview though, I'm still getting a bad vibe from VE. It's a feeling right now but I wouldn't mind more people looking at him closely and just really asking if he's trying to find scum. Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 08:44 Snarfs wrote:
All right, so here are my thoughts:
1) On VE:
My vote on VE was initially because of exactly what I said - of the three people that came into the conversation, he was the quickest to abandon it when things got heated. Now, he claims that he was commuting and I can't exactly dispute that.
But since then, I've had no reason to move my vote off of him. Look at the way he's saying things. Who is he even pressuring? Read through his filter and try to figure out who he's pushing. Palmar!? We're not lynching Palmar day 1, why waste time? As for the other people VE is "pressuring", there's no vindication. Phagga? Nope. yamato? Maybe, I can't really tell. When VE is town, he pushes people. He pushes them hard to determine their alignment and it's obvious he's pushing people. I think this is scum VE.
**snip** Anything new in there? Just a weak-ass meta read based on 24 hours of D1. But he asked for others' opinions TWICE in those two posts. We have players who haven't said fuck all. He's saying we can't lynch Palmar today...why? Why the fuck not? He's not doing shit. But he wants to lynch me? Based on what? A weak ass meta read and an absence I've explained? It's cognitive dissonance. Why would he be against lynching Palmar D1 and not against lynching VE D1 for the same reason? I mean, okay if he thinks Palmar is better for town than me assuming we're both town, that's one thing...but he doesn't say as much. He simply shuts down the Palmar lynch for no reason...when no one is even voting for Palmar but me. Now I'm at a crossroads. I want to kill Palmar with the holy fire of righeousness. But I also want Snarfs to hang. I want others' opinions of this, because at this point I could go either way. Kill the scummy lurker who doesn't give a shit, or kill the scummy active participant? Right now I'm leaning lynching Palmar, but if there's more support for a Snarfs lynch I'm all over that shit.
Guess what? The support for a snarfs lynch wasn't there.
His push on Palmar
Another thing that wasn't looked at in context by yamato. Let's look at the distance between VE's vote on Palmar and any support that came on it.
On February 07 2013 03:28 VisceraEyes wrote:
Oh neat, Palmar didn't even comment on random lynching. Another infallible scum tell for our icelandic friend.
##Vote: Palmar
On February 07 2013 12:01 Oatsmaster wrote:
I dont care if Palmer is town actually at this point, he hasnt posted enough for ANYONE to get a read on him
Vets cannot let their reputation carry the game for them, especially since there are no nightkills in this game so its not like he is gonna die day 1 if he is really good.
This is a pure LURKER lynch.
Mr CC has contributed more than him and he replaced like 12+ hours later.
##Unvote
##Vote: Palmer.
It took almost 9 hours, and this was the only support that VE had on a Palmar lynch.
So what did VE do next? Try to pressure someone else
On February 07 2013 17:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Okay, I've read the whole thread again. First of all, where the fuck is prplhz and why isn't anyone else curious? He has literally 4 in game posts and while he appears to be interested in "thread atmosphere", I just have no idea who he thinks is scum.
Djo bringing back up the whole Oats/Mocsta thing is just...confusing. What's the point? I'm not even sure what he's accusing Mocsta of in the first place. @Djo What exactly is your problem with Mocsta? It's like you're suspicious of him because he didn't join your random lynch (which you say that you didn't even really like).
As I said earlier, I'm very very interested in clearing out the trash, being players who signed up and aren't playing. Right now that list is:
Palmar
prplhz
Snarfs
JX
There's no way in hell they're all scum. Here's what I want to do. I think everyone should choose one name off that list that they believe is the most realistic lynch candidate based on what they perceive to be town sentiment. Then I want them to explain why they aren't voting for that person, and explain in detail why their lynch candidate is better.
Know this. GM made it clear in the OP that lurkers will ruin this game. You don't even have to take my word for it, it's right in the OP. The worst thing townies can do in this setup is lurk. Therefor, I don't want to lynch someone active today. We can start lynching into active posters with more flip information.
I think prplhz is the most realistic lynch candidate, and I'll tell you why (though you probably won't like it.)
Palmar apparently wants to lynch prplhz.
Is that fucked up or what? But it's true. If Palmar comes back in here and says "Yeah I still want to lynch prplhz" then I believe that prplhz will get lynched. In spite of fucking off for the entire game, Palmar has more say over who gets lynched than I do. But I'm not bitter - all is not lost you see. For I can also get down on a prplhz lynch. I'd still do somersaults over a Palmar lynch or Snarfs lynch, but honestly I just don't think I can make it happen today.
____________________________________________________________________
On the active posters:
I'd like to see more from slOosh. Him backing out of his yamato read, while admirable I guess, leaves me wondering just who he thinks is scum. He mentioned phagga as a means of determining prplhz' alignment...somehow? But made it clear that he wasn't really a scumread. Ultimately he wants it to be clear that he's not doing nothing, which generally sets off red flags for me. He started out as a super townread too, which is why this is concerning for me.
@slOosh
You say "let's work with what we've got". I've got a case on Snarfs that you haven't commented on. I've got a lurker policy that I'd like you to consider. I'd really like to hear who you think is scum.
yamato is on my to-do list tomorrow morning. So is Cheesecake. I'm going to bed now.
##Unvote: Palmar
##Vote: prplhz
Yet again, VE had no support for this lynch. No one would agree with him.
On February 08 2013 03:02 VisceraEyes wrote:
Still no quotes from this game explaining your viewpoint. Just vague meta references and now you're throwing in non-alignment indicative bullshit.
##Unvote: prplhz
##Vote: Snarfs
WOOOWOOOOOOOOO This is the lynch guys, all aboard.
So, then VE tries to get snarfs lynched again. Guess what? No support on the lynch.
Finally, VE cedes to the idea of lynching JX.
On February 08 2013 06:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
##Unvote: Snarfs
##Vote: JieXian
It's still true - it was just an observation. I wouldn't say he's been discussed "all day"...he doesn't even have enough content to warrant all-day discussion. And his resurgence into the thread when the threat of lynch is real certainly doesn't speak well for him either.
What happened before this and at this time? The JX lynch had tons of momentum, and people had settled with the idea of lynching JX.
What vote was VE on JX? The sixth and last vote according to the above votecount. His vote did not matter at that point. If he was town, he should consolidate onto a target anyways.
VE's lynches never gained any momentum day 1, and if you look at the context, you see it wasn't a problem of conviction. It was a problem of people refusing to lynch with VE. The votecount and game thread show this.
Snarfs pressure on VE
What do we know about snarfs
1) He seriously pressured only VE day 1. (1/3 of snarfs filter is trying to convince people VE is scum)
2) He was scum
3) VE wanted him lynched day 1 (ie, the vote on snarfs and multiple mentions of snarfs)
The scenarios for snarfs/VE interactions
1) Both scum
It would be a double bus that was planned from the very beginning of day 1.
Scum would want to cede 1/4 of their thread control.
Scum would think that VE would get lynched first although he had much more thread presence than snarfs.
Scum would want to bus one of their members early day 1 in a game without nks. Note: Scum can not have confirmed town running around in this game. By bussing their own member, they could only have 2 confirmed town in the thread, and even that would be pushing it.
Scum would want the early bus to ride town cred, which is very fragile, for a whole game (which never happens - town cred only goes so far when the bus is early).
2) VE town, snarfs scum
Snarfs locked onto VE in hopes of getting VE lynched/spread suspicion on him
Scum were not ceding 1/4 of their thread control
Snarfs would look like he is contributing by taking on a big named player
Which has less and more believable assumptions? Ockham's razor says point 2 is much more likely
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CC and yamato, I really don't realize how you guys don't see how jay is certain scum.
I don't see how you think VE is such an autolock as scum.
You haven't refuted my cases. I have just shown why yours are wrong.
Read you mugs
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On February 21 2013 16:48 jaybrundage wrote:Man Debears is really trying his best to get the mislynch lynched. DEBEARS STOP FUCKING IGNORING ME I RESPONDED TO YOUR CASES YOU HAVEN'T POSTED ANYTHING IN RESPONSE. AS TOWN YOU WOULD TRY TO SEE MY REASONING AND RESPOND IN KIND. BUT INSTEAD YOU IGNORE ME AND INSTEAD OF TRYING TO FIND OUT MY ALIGNMENT YOU SCREAM SCUM.Also this is blatantly wrong SlOosh was not considered town he was afk most of day 1 and even got warned for not putting a vote in. He was scummy for lurking if anything. VE as town would of been put up in a heartbeat. Also VE doesn't seem to care about this game. He isn't even in here defending himself. Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 16:08 debears wrote:On February 21 2013 16:06 yamato77 wrote:
CC, THINK ABOUT THIS:
If VE is town, why would either of me or you (and Mocsta) be put up as nominations before him?
Palmar and Sloosh, two veteran players, were nominated day 2, yet the third is NOT VE, but one of the newest players, Mocsta. D4, you were put up. D6, me. Is VE really less of a threat as town then either of us? No. He's fucking mafia, and mafia aren't nominating themselves at all. Palmar is a better town player than VE. Sloosh was considered town (I believe). Mocsta was considered town. VE was not (if i remember correctly)
On February 21 2013 15:09 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On February 21 2013 15:05 jaybrundage wrote:
@debears I responded to your case. Good job ignoring it. But at this point you should just bus VE. Try to save some face. Your responses were wifom or weren't actual defenses + Show Spoiler +On February 17 2013 12:12 jaybrundage wrote:@Debears Oats has pretty much defended me satisfactory. He knows the best lynch Na pretty well :o. The pre association case before a flip was pretty bad I have to stop doing that. If you have anymore questions or concerns plz address them to me. If not let's lynch Phagga. @CC You know I'm tempting man. Im the tastiest pie eva  Show nested quote +On February 17 2013 10:03 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Although this Jay stuff looks tempting as hell,
@Debears
Stop rolling your face over Jay right now. I think he's pretty lulscum too at this point; but tell me, WHY do you think Phagga is town??? You realize that his voteswitch was actually super scummy right? Sloosh unvotes and looks to be preparing to vote Snarfypoo. That's when Phagga switches over, right in the time between sloosh unvotes and subsequently votes snarfs.
"Oh shit, sloosh gonna tip the tides, GG better bus"
I suggest you go look at Phagga's play again. That's just shitty analysis of his vote to give him a town vibe. I expect better from you.
Phagga best lynch evar atm.
##Vote: Phagga
At anyone wanting to lynch Prplhz right now, why would we over Phagga? I'd like to, as VE puts it, powwow a little bit and discuss it. Prplhz play is lackluster and scummy but I think Phagga has a great chance to flip scum. @Phagga I agree completely on the vote switch looking scummy. Also his hesitantness to vote on VE after the case and then the flip flop looks bad On February 20 2013 10:24 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2013 10:16 debears wrote:
Cheesecake
The fuck?
If you looks like scum, sounds like scum, and votes like scum, it is scum.
Jay is scum. If you think not, THEN FUCKING COUNTER MY PREVIOUS CASES AGAINST HIM. But what if its my town meta too look like scum. But regardless your scum this game. So no use talking about it. On February 20 2013 10:34 jaybrundage wrote:I did have reason for voting VE. It wasn't a big case but I stated my intent here. He wiggles his way out of Sloosh's questions and then throws dirt on Sloosh for no reason. Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 07:02 jaybrundage wrote:I would actually gladly lynch VE based on what SlOosh said and his responses On February 10 2013 06:47 VisceraEyes wrote:
I wanted to discuss it with CHEESE tomorrow slOosh. I'm perfectly willing to discuss him with you today. -.- On February 10 2013 06:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
That is, unless you just wanna talk to Palmar about it. I'll gladly just let you twist my intentions and lynch you for it later. <3 The bolded is my response. Show nested quote +On February 17 2013 01:53 debears wrote:On February 17 2013 00:44 Oatsmaster wrote:
Actually,
##Unvote
##Vote: Debears
What do you have to say about Jay pushing VE incredibly hard? He pushed VE hard with no case written on VE at all by himself. He just suddenly decided "hey, VE is totes scum". You don't find that weird after he wrote about yamato? + Show Spoiler +On February 11 2013 13:02 jaybrundage wrote:YAMATO Cause Palmar said so WELP HERE WE GO Well first of all there's this Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 21:57 Palmar wrote:I think you guys should lynch a few people, but should I flip I want you guys to not forget that however good you think my scumreads are, any mediocre player with updated reads is more valuable than a dead great player with his old reads. Not to mention I'm not invested far enough into this game to actually consider my reads worth too much. Anyway, I think yamato, prplhz, snarfs, phagga, visceraeyes and cheesecake should be in the initial round of scum. I guess VE should not be strongly considered in this group unless I'm wrong about prplhz, but who knows. I'm fairly certain 2-4 of those players are scum. This leaves the group of me, mochsta, JX, oat, jay, djodref and sloosh as most likely 5-7 townies. jay and djodref are the ones I like the least. I'm not going to bother you guys with detailed PR cases (that's what I really call them, I actually write cases to convince town, not to prove people are mafia). I'm just going to pick out scum and tell you why in short.
Yamato is most likely scum. He basically seems to be picking a target that looks like it could die and then going for him. The giveaway part for me is how he's pushing his reads. Notice how often he seems to be looking for reasons to lynch people instead of looking for people who are scum: On February 07 2013 22:48 yamato77 wrote:
What town needs now is to consolidate, and I don't think anyone would oppose a JX lynch. It's quite interesting yamato77 already made it quite clear what he was going to do when JX predictably flipped town: On February 08 2013 10:27 yamato77 wrote:
Regardless of the JX flip I think Palmar is claiming mafia to us with that last post about the lynch.
And again with the "let's get everyone working together to lynch someone, not necessarily scum, just a lynch. To be fair he seems to think we're all town, but whatever. On February 10 2013 17:04 yamato77 wrote:
I don't think it's any stretch to say everyone should be on board with killing Palmar today. Sloosh is townier by a mile and Palmar is obviously not even playing the game, so he should just die. If he's town, oh well, someone has to die, and he's admitted to us that he's going to do nothing. If he's mafia then his team is retarded, or he's too cocky for his own good.
prplhz is another guy who is scum, this is why: He constantly advises people to do stuff, requests their opinions and puts forth very little concrete opinions himself. Examples: On February 07 2013 21:30 prplhz wrote:
But we're not lynching people because you think their play is "abhorrent to [your] notion of playing to win". His reputation is well earned and it's silly to lynch him on day 1 unless there's a really good case but the entire case against him can be explained away with "he's had a mental breakdown" and we can tolerate that for a single day as long as he isn't straight up lying to us so lets just wait it out and see what happens. Only bad thing about that is that we have to lynch someone else and this game isn't making much sense to me. I think I need to talk to slOosh. On February 08 2013 07:38 prplhz wrote:
@VisceraEyes Why are you so anxious to get rid of Palmar right now? No one said it could last forever. Why would we take the fact that he is Palmar away from the equation considering that .... he is Palmar? On February 08 2013 01:14 prplhz wrote:
Will people please comment on jaybrundage. JieXian sucks and he'll need to do something about that but in the meantime I want some feedback on jaybrundage. The last one really rubs me the wrong way, why is prplhz asking for "permission" to go after jaybrundage? If you think he's scum just go nail him. Also did you know prplhz completely disappeared during the night?  Anyway, more later if I have time. Lets start from the top Yamato wants to lynch Mocsta as quite a bit of people viewed Mocsta scummy at first Oats naming one and i know he had about 3-4 votes at one point in time. However when Mocsta actually writes up his defense Yamato completly back tracks. And chalks it up to Mocsta misunderstanding his case? Yamato thought Mocsta was scum it wouldn't be misunderstanding it would be him twisting words. And then Yamato just flips it around and calls Mocsta town later. Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 11:17 yamato77 wrote:
Djo, what do you make of Mocsta's case on me up there?
I have a hard time thinking it came from scum but he quite clearly misunderstands quite a lot of stuff. Ok So here Yamato comes full circle in Mocsta from hes scum to idk to yea hes town. And get this then Yamato calls JX scummy for calling Mocsta scum when a short while ago. Yamato was going after Mocsta with a pick axe. Also note his need as scum to want to kill Palmar ASAP. Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 12:54 yamato77 wrote:
I'm starting to come around to the idea of town Mocsta, actually. I believe he has a scum read on me, wrong or not. I'm not going to pick apart his case on me, because honestly it's too time consuming to do so, but rather, I'll say this: Reread what you've quoted with the idea that I'm town in your head, and you'll see what I've been doing this game. It does no good for you, as town, to continue to pursue me.
With that, I'd be behind a JX lynch. His one post is a "case" and vote on Mocsta. He was a QT spammer in our game together, and was far more active there than the thread, as opposed to his "carefree" town games like LIX. I'd be behind his lynch.
Palmar should also be on people's minds. No, you don't want to lynch Palmar D1 if he's town, but you don't exactly want him staying alive until tomorrow if mafia, either, so if he refuses to do anything for the rest of today I would say he should almost certainly be our lynch. A weak ass joke-vote on Prplhz is not meaningful contribution.
I don't like a Djodref lynch at the moment, but I need to reassess his posting from a more objective standpoint. I was giving him too much credit for his Mocsta read before. Still, I think he is perhaps not the best choice in front of people like JX/Palmar, so he's a backburner for me.
I don't know what's going on between VE/Snarfs, but I don't think people are cool with lynching VE so Snarfs needs some better contributions than a "case" on VE that I don't find to be good. Here he just becomes unreasonable demanding a JX lynch while not even listening to alternatives Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 05:41 yamato77 wrote:
If someone other than JX gets lynched today I will afk. The sole reason he wants to go after people now is lack of activity. He legit with all the information we have got from two lynches is gonna do a lurker lynch is he fucking srs? Yes lurking can be a tell of scum. But to use it alone as who you decide to kill at this point in the game is just a easy scum route. Also look at the people that he's defending VE prlhz the exact people that Palmar and Sloosh are going for. Also keep in mind his one track mind to want ot lynch Palmar. We have SCUM Yamato here. Show nested quote +On February 11 2013 12:45 yamato77 wrote:
One heuristic that I find important to mention about the behavior of people around yesterday's lynch is simple activity.
Assume that Sloosh and Mocsta are town. With Palmar's green flip, that means that I was wrong and mafia decided to make the lynch a choice between three town players. They don't care who dies, really, because any of the three is good for them. So mafia are more inclined to not care at all what happens yesterday. They lurk, slap their vote somewhere, and do nothing relevant to the game because there is zero chance of them getting lynched and they have no reason to push a mafia agenda.
So who fits this bill from yesterday? Snarfs, jay, and djo. Djo is the question mark of the three, because he simply didn't post at all. The other two, however, had very similar days and patterns of activity. They both slapped their vote on someone early, and then basically AFK'd. Right now, I think Snarfs is the best lynch because of this behavior and his similar behavior around the lynch day 1 where he didn't vote JX but rather put Hus vote on VE and used his 'case' as an excuse to not comment on the actual lynch. He should die today.
##Vote Snarfs
As for other reads, obviously I think jay is an acceptable alternative lynch candidate. I defended him early day 1 but since then he's done very little, which is more in line with how I view his scum meta. When he's town he at least cares enough to post his thoughts, but this game he's not even doing that anymore and is probably mafia for it.
Phagga is scummy, as others have outlined. I don't see him as red as I do snarfs or jay, but he's on my radar. If I was making a hypothetical scum team, I'd say the fourth might be Oats. In the past day his activity has dropped off a cliff and I don't know what his reads in the game are anymore. He seems to be sticking to his guns from day 1 but has no new information to support his reads and hasn't been very active in the game.
For town reads, Mocsta and Sloosh look really town to me, mostly from their play while under the gun. I'm more confident on Mocsta than Sloosh, but I would defend either one's towniness. VE and prplhz are also both town to me, despite other player's suspicions of them. If I need to defend them today, I will, because neither show scum traits to me at all.
Cheesecake, you asked for my read on you. You lean town to me, but you're real blendy and not at all confrontational like I think town CC is. I suppose you haven't been accused seriously yet, but you also aren't going out of your way to pressure your reads like I think town CC usually does. You're more null than I expected at this point in the game.
If you guys think I'm mafia for serious, come at me, but neither case from yesterday is at all good. I've been the towniest yamato of all time. Bring the cases on. ##Vote Yamato Then, there's jay's refusal to lynch snarfs. + Show Spoiler +On February 12 2013 13:23 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 13:14 yamato77 wrote:
I don't care if you don't want to lynch Snarfs. You want to lynch me,1 which means you're an idiot.
Palmar did play bad this game. I have no problem saying that. Just because he flipped town doesn't suddenly mean his reads are 100% correct. I happen to know they aren't.
So what are you doing to do tomorrow when I flip town and mafia puts up three more town players and then it's mylo, huh? Go around sheeping Palmar's reads then? How is that productive for town?
Your case is just an extension of his, which I already addressed. I've addressed all of the main points I could find against me. If you don't believe me, 2 I don't care, because right now I really don't even want to play in this game. People aren't even reading my posts. 1 Hey last game I was scum I used attacks on Bugs to rile him up and make him not think clearly. Nicely done. 2 Stop using emotional bullshit to try to pull out a response from people. Also you refuse to find a second candidate. WTF is this? If your town then start looking. Snarfs is not gonna be killed today. I have said this like three times and you refuse to answer. WHAT'S YOUR SECOND SCUM READ What was his reasoning for not lynching snarfs??????? + Show Spoiler +On February 12 2013 11:56 jaybrundage wrote:Snarfs: I thought snarfs was scummy for a bit. But with my change of read on VE and the way snarf was pushing VE since day 1 I have come around on him also the fact that the people who are voting him are in my scum team makes it so I think that he's a mislynch that scum is pushing. My last comment on him was to many scum want him dead and its true alot of scummy people are pushing him as a mislynch. Yamato is still a scum candidate. I'll give more thoughts on him later. I want to see his posting and what he plans to do because so far its been jack shit. The reasons you stated are the exact reasons they are probably scum. CC has sat under the radar. He hasn't been pressured and he hasn't done anything. His flipflop on yamato is also scummy as hell. Oats as well he started off decent too many people gave him a pass on his conversation with you. Since then he hasn't contributed to the town at all. Show nested quote +Mocsta said
Mr. CC: I am finding is blendy as; but has sat under radar enough for me to keep forgetting to read his filter.
Oats: Is tough. middle of day 1, i had him as confirmed town. As the game has gone on, he has contributed less and less; BUT, I am willing to think of this as related to Chinese New year. If Oats is scum, I am willing to consider him as last prioirty to lynch. You like that logical fallacy thing eh. Well ill use it against you. Show nested quote +Mocsta said Also Jay, I think its great to use Palmar reads as a guide; but you need to show more of your own thought. e.g. phagga being cleared because Palmar had a doubt, is not good enough in my opinion. If we want a good town environment, we need to be able to discuss pros/cons of participants; quoting "palmar said so" is actually http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority and needs to stop. Show nested quote +appeal to authority You said that because an authority thinks something, it must therefore be true.It's important to note that this fallacy should not be used to dismiss the claims of experts, or scientific consensus. Appeals to authority are not valid arguments, but nor is it reasonable to disregard the claims of experts who have a demonstrated depth of knowledge unless one has a similar level of understanding and/or access to empirical evidence. However it is, entirely possible that the opinion of a person or institution of authority is wrong; therefore the authority that such a person or institution holds does not have any intrinsic bearing upon whether their claims are true or not. That guy Palmar... Ill give ya a secret
He's an expert Also just so you note. Oats was on Palmars town list. I do take his reads seriously but I don't mind branching out either. Was his town read on snarfs based on analysis of snarfs play? Hell no. It was an association, based on no flips, based on a couple votes on snarfs. WHY DID JAY NOT MENTION ANALYSIS OF SNARFS PLAY IF HE HAS SUCH A STRONG READ ON HIMIf jay was town, Why can't someone whos town have faulty reasoning? he would defend snarfs based on analysis of snarfs play, not some "oh, i think these guys are scum and voting this other guys even though i have no analysis on the guy they are voting". It was faulty reasoning granted but you can have faulty reasoning and still be townOats, Ctrl F jay's filter for snarfs. You will see what i mean Also If i was Snarf's teammate I would of bussed him reallly realllly hard. I think that bussing is a tatic in mafia that people are hesitant to abuse. I would of bussed Snarfs sooo hard if i was mafia it would of not even been funny How is any of that a fucking rebuttal? "My meta is scummy" "I would've bussed snarfs" "Town can have faulty reasoning" All are piss poor excuses for a scum. Die scum
Hey look scum doesn't read!!!!
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11589 Posts
If he honestly believed Snarfs was mafia and wanted to convince town, he could have done so instead of voting JX day 1 like all of town wanted. He did not take any strong stances at all. That is not "pushing your reads".
Snarfs, similarly, didn't exactly make a concerted effort to get VE lynched, ever. When he was getting lynched day 3, did he even come into the thread and argue for VE's lynch? Why not? Wouldn't mafia benefit from lynching town VE in that situation? It could have happened, but it didn't.
It's not enough to say that the double bus is good evidence, because it's not. It was weak on the part of VE, and Snarfs didn't even try to get VE lynched over himself. I've been over this. There's no reason not to lynch him.
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On February 22 2013 03:50 yamato77 wrote:
If he honestly believed Snarfs was mafia and wanted to convince town, he could have done so instead of voting JX day 1 like all of town wanted. He did not take any strong stances at all. That is not "pushing your reads".
Snarfs, similarly, didn't exactly make a concerted effort to get VE lynched, ever. When he was getting lynched day 3, did he even come into the thread and argue for VE's lynch? Why not? Wouldn't mafia benefit from lynching town VE in that situation? It could have happened, but it didn't.
It's not enough to say that the double bus is good evidence, because it's not. It was weak on the part of VE, and Snarfs didn't even try to get VE lynched over himself. I've been over this. There's no reason not to lynch him.
You make it sound as though you should only push 1 person all of day 1. And that is completely wrong. If you have a scumread, and no one will lynch them, then you keep looking for scum and save the case for another day. Snarfs lynch had no momentum at all day 1.
When someone has a third of their filter about someone being scum, then that is a concentrated effort
READ THIS
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690&user=121695
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Your confirmation bias is causing you to try and refute facts with opinions yamato. Are you aware of this?
I took the very strong stance that I thought Snarfs was scum. This is evident in my filter. I also took the strong stance that I thought Palmar was scum. This is also in my filter. I also took the strong stance that Mocsta was scum. This is in my filter. The fact that you don't think I was "pushing my reads" is horseshit because I very clearly explained why I thought all of Snarfs, Palmar and Mocsta were scum. While it's true that I wasn't in here bashing you guys over the head trying to get you to vote with me, that doesn't change the fact that these are all stances I took that you're claiming I didn't take.
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11589 Posts
On February 22 2013 03:53 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2013 03:50 yamato77 wrote:
If he honestly believed Snarfs was mafia and wanted to convince town, he could have done so instead of voting JX day 1 like all of town wanted. He did not take any strong stances at all. That is not "pushing your reads".
Snarfs, similarly, didn't exactly make a concerted effort to get VE lynched, ever. When he was getting lynched day 3, did he even come into the thread and argue for VE's lynch? Why not? Wouldn't mafia benefit from lynching town VE in that situation? It could have happened, but it didn't.
It's not enough to say that the double bus is good evidence, because it's not. It was weak on the part of VE, and Snarfs didn't even try to get VE lynched over himself. I've been over this. There's no reason not to lynch him. You make it sound as though you should only push 1 person all of day 1. And that is completely wrong. If you have a scumread, and no one will lynch them, then you keep looking for scum and save the case for another day. Snarfs lynch had no momentum at all day 1. When someone has a third of their filter about someone being scum, then that is a concentrated effort READ THIS http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690&user=121695
My case shows explicitly what VE's mindset was around the lynch, and that's not refutable. He was not pushing his own agenda with his vote, he was sheeping town. Don't make it into something it's not.
Snarfs cannot have ever been a threat to VE because he held zero influence on the thread from day 1. He never pushed ANY agenda actively, because he lurked too much and didn't interact with town. Maybe that's hard for you to see since you replaced in, but I know. So stop arguing with me about this and fucking sheep me. I'm right.
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11589 Posts
On February 22 2013 03:55 VisceraEyes wrote:
Your confirmation bias is causing you to try and refute facts with opinions yamato. Are you aware of this?
I took the very strong stance that I thought Snarfs was scum. This is evident in my filter. I also took the strong stance that I thought Palmar was scum. This is also in my filter. I also took the strong stance that Mocsta was scum. This is in my filter. The fact that you don't think I was "pushing my reads" is horseshit because I very clearly explained why I thought all of Snarfs, Palmar and Mocsta were scum. While it's true that I wasn't in here bashing you guys over the head trying to get you to vote with me, that doesn't change the fact that these are all stances I took that you're claiming I didn't take.
Then why did you vote JX over the both of them day 1? Why didn't you do more to get one of Snarfs/Palmar lynched?
It's just bullshit. I don't have confirmation bias, you're just mafia. I laid it out plain and simple. Plus you lied about it.
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Because Palmar showed up and tried to DERAIL THE JX LYNCH! I thought that meant that JX was his scumbuddy and I was willing to consolidate on JX based on his inactivity ANYWAY.
Yes, you do have confirmation bias. All of the points you're saying are "irrefutable" have been refuted - you're just flailing around now going "Just sheep me town I'm right" without even CONSIDERING that you might be wrong. WHICH YOU FUCKING ARE.
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