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On February 12 2013 18:51 phagga wrote:
Mocsta, what do you think of the two points I raised regarding VE?
I am voting for VE based on two criteria
(1) Gut feel; I actually really like VE; his post syncs well with me and I can't pinpoint why. This was the same problem I had with Gonzaw in Mafia LIX (I was the only town to give him a mayor vote) - gonzaw was SCUM
I know the above is weak, but so what; intuition is a skill in mafia
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(2) The whole; i think palmar is scum; so i am going to vote his "lynch candidate" - i.e. prplhz
so phagga, as for your question.
I agree with your first point (VE voting the scum read)
but your second is pretty weak and based on circumstantial evidence.
Yes the time stamps show 30mins expired; but hey, maybe he spent that whole time jerking off.
The point is, thats grasping at straws.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690¤tpage=57#1135
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Just a general note. I've seen the argument that prplhz is not scum because he is more active compared to his scum meta. That argument may or may not have been made for other people as well.
I would like to remind everyone in this context that this game was specifically made to force scum into activity. Scum metas might be useless. I assume that most scums in this game actually try to play more active than they usually do. Exactly because they know that else they barely have a chance of winning.
Scum metas might be interesting if they match (as a starting point to look more into a player), but don't draw the conclusion that someone is not mafia because the scum meta does not mach.
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SNARFYPOO
HE SCUM
Original points for reference D1.
+ Show Spoiler +SnarfsBeen playing super neutral so far and non confrontational. Example: On February 06 2013 14:38 Snarfs wrote:
I could point out that it looks like one or both of you are purposefully being stubborn to try to draw reactions out of scum, possibly some sort of trap, but I don't know either of you well enough to give you that much credit. If you CAN do something, then you do it. This post serves no purpose other than to illustrate that either Oats or Mocsta could be stubborn for "possibly" some sort of trap, but then says he doesn't have enough information. On February 06 2013 16:22 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 15:33 Mocsta wrote:On February 06 2013 15:26 VisceraEyes wrote:
Mocsta I'm intrigued by your posts regarding the nomination phase. However I'm going to suggest/request that you save it for AFTER the dawn phase of D2 so that scum aren't given instructions on how you're going to view nominees they put up. It's going to be clear enough after D2 because we're going to have to lynch into their choices - but if we can go all of D1 without speculating on who and why scum will send up D2 I think that's going to be a net gain for town. I disagree. On February 06 2013 12:04 Mocsta wrote:
The choices scum have for nomination will be based on the status quo of the ODD days; so it is paramount to consider ODD day play for EVEN day nomination. Having said that, I am going to hold off further strategy talk due to: fuck all people online. Need some others to contribute. @SnarfWhat do you make of VE wanting to bury all nomination mechanic talk till the nominations are released? I think it's a null tell. Town would do it if they wanted to shift the focus off of WIFOM. Scum would do it if they thought it was in town's best interests to be talking about the setup. I've personally never cared for too much setup speculation as most of my scum hunting success has come from observing what they actually do, not guessing at what they should be doing. Another null tell. On February 06 2013 14:34 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 14:27 Oatsmaster wrote:
Hey Snarfs,
Do you have any conclusions about the 'discussion' between me and Mocsta relating to our alignments/ Not really being swayed either way. Looks like standard day 1 banter. The only real stance he had on someone is VE, but the only justification is for his "disappearing act". Snarfs has had plenty of time to justify his vote, but all I see is "lol people were shouting in thread you weren't there must be scum". Apart from that, the only thing he's done is talk about WIFOM crap. Snarfs plz do something instead of trying to be all blendy and stuff, k?
This post reeks of scum:
On February 07 2013 23:54 Snarfs wrote:
Here and catching up now. I'm just on page 20 and I see Djo is voting Palmar as well??
Guys, Palmar is not a lynch target day 1. Why? Because if he's town, he will find scum! And if he doesn't find scum, we lynch him later in the game! It's that simple! He's too hard to read otherwise, and this is by far the best indicator of his alignment. Lynching him day 1 is way too risky in a cost/benefit sense.
As for people doubting my read on VE (clearly this is the case as no one seems to be listening), if you have time right now please look through my history for the game where I vig'd VE night 1 when him and ace were scum. It was one of bugs' games, I can't remember the name right now and I'm on my phone or I'd look it up myself. He's playing exactly like that!
Now I'm going to finish catching up. I can make a more detailed case on VE when I'm not lying in bed at 7 am (I'll pull the quoted out of that game for you if no one else does me the favour of linking it).
He keeps mentioning that town Palmar will find scum. This is obviously pro town. It is anti-town to this Palmar is scum. Palmar is obviously town. How can you guys not see Palmar is town? Palmar is town. But we can lynch him later it's okay.
Funny thing is, he votes for him later despite being somewhat active and having reads. Y u scum Snarfs?
"Guy's I'm catching up!"
On February 07 2013 23:54 Snarfs wrote:
Here and catching up now. I'm just on page 20 and I see Djo is voting Palmar as well??
Guys, Palmar is not a lynch target day 1. Why? Because if he's town, he will find scum! And if he doesn't find scum, we lynch him later in the game! It's that simple! He's too hard to read otherwise, and this is by far the best indicator of his alignment. Lynching him day 1 is way too risky in a cost/benefit sense.
As for people doubting my read on VE (clearly this is the case as no one seems to be listening), if you have time right now please look through my history for the game where I vig'd VE night 1 when him and ace were scum. It was one of bugs' games, I can't remember the name right now and I'm on my phone or I'd look it up myself. He's playing exactly like that!
Now I'm going to finish catching up. I can make a more detailed case on VE when I'm not lying in bed at 7 am (I'll pull the quoted out of that game for you if no one else does me the favour of linking it).
On February 08 2013 01:25 Snarfs wrote:
Okay, I'm caught up give me another little bit to get to my computer and I'll do up that case on VE.
-SNIP-
On February 11 2013 06:49 Snarfs wrote:
Bah, I hate saying I'm gonna come back and catch up and then not actually being able to contribute, but my dad wants to go for a walk with the dog.
I'm still not sure on who to lynch today after Palmar's last post. I like killing yamato. And Oats. And VE still.
I'll be back later to post more.
"Dog ate my posts" excuse.
He keeps saying he's reading. We should assume you're reading and catching up. Saying it once or twice is fine, but he seems really paranoid about it. "They might think I'm not reading, better tell them". He's also lurking like a boss with family excuses. That's okay, but it's a real cop-out on doing things.
The JX lynch
There's little to quote here. Never once did Snarfs TALK to or question JX. Town are interested in the lynch, and want to find out the most about the outstanding candidates. Snarfs DID NOT DO THIS. He PUSHED VE the entire day, and did nothing else. He didn't give a SINGLE SHIT (That's no shits given in case you were counting) about the JX lynch. He knew he was town. He didn't want to get involved. All he did was push VE, and then push himself FURTHER away from the lynch here:
On February 08 2013 10:27 Snarfs wrote:
Hey guys, I'm here from now until deadline, just working on some homework on the side.
I haven't had a time to go back over JX's games, but I'm in the same boat as Palmar. Just from a cursory glance, I don't see anything scum-motivated.
You don't see anything scum-motivated? Then why aren't you trying to stop this lynch instead of facerolling over VE?
On February 08 2013 10:56 Snarfs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 10:45 Oatsmaster wrote:
Snarfs, you havent actually linked VE's meta in this game to his meta in his scum game. Care to do so? Or you just want to tunnel him to oblivion.
Have your read changed since your vote?
Since VE isnt gonna get lynched today, Snarfs, are you gonna waste your vote? I've tried to make myself as clear as possible in linking VE's meta to this game. I think that some other people who have played with VE in the past are also picking up on it so I feel like I'm finally starting to make my point. And I think JX is gonna get lynched either way.
Oats is completely right here. Snarfs wasted his vote -- he didn't want to be tied to the JX lynch.
In reference to the red part, he really doesn't care about this lynch...
Dawn into day 2
This was basically his contributiong dawn phase:
On February 09 2013 10:17 Snarfs wrote:
No matter who gets picked, I really don't want to see anyone WIFOMing about why it happened. The lynch choice has to be whoever is most likely to be scum, or least likely to be town. The worst thing that can happen to this town is to waste time trying to guess why scum would pick whoever they end up picking.
This was RIGHT before day hit. About 4 or 5 people in the thread, including me, had already said that exact same thing. He essentially copy+pasted what we were saying and posted it to seem pro-town. Kill this guy.
In day 2, this is what he did:
On February 09 2013 12:04 Snarfs wrote:
##Vote Palmar
Scummiest so far.
Pretty much it. Called inactive Palmar frustrating and that was it.
Today
On February 11 2013 16:24 Snarfs wrote:
Can someone please summarize the points against me so I can address them? I'm sorry but as I've alluded to before, this weekend is very busy for me with family as it is the family day long weekend in BC and I'm away from home visiting my dad. I'm still down with Yamato, Oats, and Ve. My preference is VE > Oats > Yamato.
To summarize while I have time:
VE: not scum hunting like normal, placing wishy washy votes and not really caring. Not giving good reasoning for actions.
Oats: No reason for town to attempt to discredit prplhz like he did, whether prplhz is town or scum doesn't matter, Oats deliberately attempted to mislead us with his quotes.
Yamato: similar feeling as VE, doesn't seem to be trying to find scum, more just playing the "see what gets me by card".
If anyone doesn't have a good enough argument for these people though, I will gladly address their questions when I find time tomorrow.
##Vote VisceraEyes
Right from the start of the day.
Why is he not pressuring people? He keeps tunneling VE!!!! Town want to explore ALL POSSIBLE LYNCH CANDIDATES. I haven't seen a single piece of original thought / pressure / questions from Snarfs considering his "other possible lynch candidates"
He's NOT trying to find scum this game. Snarfs is blindly tunneling someone, and it is completely obvious.
In addition, Snarfs is letting other people do his dirty work for him. SlOosh and others have been asking all the questions to VE, interpretting the responses, etc. ---> Snarfs has done next to nothing himself <----. He is allowing other people (who, if town, doesn't know the true intentions of) do everything for him at this point. This is not town motivated. This is scum.
To Summarize:
-Snarfs is playing extremely safe with reads early on, only aggressively calling out a single player.
-He didn't care about the JX lynch. Never attempted to read JX. Never considered any other candidate but VE.
-He is blindly tunneling VE the entire game, and allowing others to do his work for him. He is disinterested in any other candidate but VE -- highly scum motivated in thought.
-He be lurking like hell.
-Paranoid by always saying he's reading and catching up, but providing little to no useful analysis.
Scum want this VE lynch to go through, and it is coming together too easily.
I don't care if Palmar said lynch Yamato or what-have-you. He's scummy, but Snarfs is almighty scumster extraordinaire. Becuase I'm positive Snarfs is mafia, VE is therefore likely not mafia.
People, Snarfs is blinding you guys. He is shining scum from the rooftops and you guys cannot see it. Should have killed this guy D1. Lynch Snarfs.
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11589 Posts
Phagga, if that's the best you can do to discredit prplhz, I am not impressed. He is townier than you by a long shot.
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Like, ugh, why aren't we lynching snarfs right now.
He fits scum absolutely perfectly.
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11589 Posts
On February 13 2013 01:41 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Like, ugh, why aren't we lynching snarfs right now.
He fits scum absolutely perfectly.
Where is my vote?
VE's post last night was a bit reassuring. The fact that he didn't banwagon on to me when it was absurdly easy to do so is encouraging.
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Wasn't referring to you specifically Yamato, but I know where your vote is.
All aboard the Snarfs wagon of justice!
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yes I am totally super scummy by trying to start a bandwagon on someone.
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^ Nah Oats, I'm the scummy dude here trying to derail this VE lynch and switching my meta based read on Yamato like a boss.
Choo choo!
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11589 Posts
You are retarded, but a lot of people can't read me (or read at all) this game, so I will give you a pass so we can see Snarfs die.
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On February 13 2013 01:40 yamato77 wrote:
Phagga, if that's the best you can do to discredit prplhz, I am not impressed. He is townier than you by a long shot.
*facepalm*
that was a general comment. I was not discrediting prplhz. The comments about him were just an example.
And why are you never answering my questions?
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11589 Posts
On February 13 2013 02:14 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2013 01:40 yamato77 wrote:
Phagga, if that's the best you can do to discredit prplhz, I am not impressed. He is townier than you by a long shot. *facepalm* that was a general comment. I was not discrediting prplhz. The comments about him were just an example. And why are you never answering my questions?
I try not to waste my time talking to mafia.
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11589 Posts
By that I mean I think I covered why I switched my read on Mocsta. I don't think a mafia player would go through the effort to make a case on me like that. It's far more likely for him to be town and think me mafia for attacking him than him being mafia and coming up with enough shit to throw at me to make me look bad for attacking him. My meta read was weak anyway, so it wasn't important for me to continue to bog down the thread with long responses to him just to get a better read on him.
If you have anything else, consolidate it into concise points, and I will respond equally concisely later.
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Cheese, I generally like your case. Some points I disagree, mostly the first paragraph after the spoiler, because I felt similar about a Palmar lynch D1. I was null on snarfs earlier, after your analysis he is an alternative for me. However, I feel more sure about Yamato.
Yamato, you are either scum or them you do not know my alignment. My vote stays where it is for now.
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Oh wow you are answering.
Why did you withold your reads in Dawn?
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Going to sleep, my vote will stay on Snarfs.
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11589 Posts
You mean before day 2 or during day 2? Before should be obvious. During, I withheld my reads because I didn't want to get swayed in my choice for the lunch based on people agreeing or disagreeing with reads that I made public beforehand. I did as Sloosh suggested and let the nominees take the forefront of the discussion.
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Day 3 Vote Count:
Snarfs (4): Mr. Cheesecake, yamato77, VisceraEyes, VisceraEyes, Oatsmaster
Yamato77 (2): jaybrundage, phagga, Mocsta, Oatsmaster
VisceraEyes (3): Snarfs, SlOosh, Mocsta
Mr. Cheesecake (1): prplhz
prplhz (0): VisceraEyes, Oatsmaster
Snarfs is currently set to be lynched. Djodref has not voted.
You have ~6h hours left until the end of the day.
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Yea I love how divided the votes are It will make it so much easier to see scum movements later in the day.
And actually the thing I wanted to talk to you about was changing the vote to VE today. But you did it earlier then I would of liked. I wanted to get more a read of VE and scum friends on if they would of killed Yamato instead of Snarfs instead.
##UnVote
##Vote VisceraEyes
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EPT
