|
On February 12 2013 14:39 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 14:28 Mocsta wrote:On February 12 2013 14:17 yamato77 wrote:
So, Snarfs is not a good lynch because you're making association cases again?
I need better than that.
What about his play suggests town to you at all? He's tunneled VE all game and done shit else.
If the problem is that you view VE as mafia, I can address the points Sloosh raises against him some time tomorrow, but I want you to filter Snarfs and think about his alignment first. I already said with snarfs. I think he made his case on ve too early instead of establishing innocence and that was why he cops grief. I think his case on VE was just an excuse to do nothing else that day. I think his play day 2 shows a complete lack of interest in town's affairs, because it didn't matter to him who died since they were all town. I think even his play today shows how little he cares about interacting with town and actually hunting scum, because he just comes in, plops down some reads and then AFKs. He SHOULD get flak for this kind of play, because it's scummy.
What makes him scum and prplhz town?
|
11589 Posts
Prplhz has interacted with the thread more than Snarfs, has been more transparent than Snarfs, and most importantly, isn't matching my impression of mafia prplhz which is one of an uncaring attitude and even less contribution.
The evidence isn't SUPER strong, but I am confident in prplhz being town. Him coming to the correct conclusion from my analysis of him helps, too. Buddying ftw.
|
Yam
what usaid now about snarfs applies to 3/4 of the people in the game.
Basically no one has discussed much. Points are raised and then never answered. Its not just you. Others are doing the same thing.
As an aside
I know this is useless but i REALlY dont like djo.
I hope he doesnt get replaced im feeling scum there
|
11589 Posts
I'm going to take a mulligan on my read on Snarfs/VE
I filtered the both of them and I think I might be wrong on the interaction there.
|
Like I said.
early game
Snarfs voted VE and they bantered
I asked snarfs about a tell on VE.. he returned "null"
Like its a small thing, but if Snarfs was 100% tunneled on VE, he woulda said it was scummy as fuck.. that he didn't shows to me, he has thought VE was scum; built his case and stuck to his guns.
The con of snarfs is, recently (like others) he has been non-existant which could represent lack of care.
Yamato, i *still* dont like your approach to case defense this game. In fact I abhor it.
However, you have at least showed you care this phase, which is more I can say for 3/4 of the ppl remaining.
##Unvote
##Vote: VisceraEyes
|
I read over Yamato's filter and it's gleaming green. I can't understand what you find scummy about it at all. He's consistently pushing his reads, and he explains his thought process clearly when those reads change. In the last game I played with Yamato he replaced into a prime scum position - a fake miller claim from a respectable town player...and he fucked right off. He did a little pseudo push on me, but he didn't do shit with that claim. If he's scum this game he's done something like the most spectacular turnaround in scum play I've ever seen.
I looked over Djodref's filter for fun, and I think he's town. There's not much there, as his activity has been pretty spotty even when he was posting, but he doesn't come across as like...diplomatic. When we were scummates in Looney Lynching, one of the things I noted about his play was that he did this thing where he acknowledged scummy behavior people pointed out as scummy...like "I can see why you think that's scummy" or "I understand why you think that" and shit. Diplomatic. I'm not really seeing anything like that in this game, though to be fair it's missing most hallmarks of his town play too. It becomes a question of whether I think his D1 play was scummy, and I have to say no. I said it before, but the thing where he left himself out of the pool of lynches in his RNG speaks volumes of his alignment. I feel like as scum he would either put himself in the pool or at least lie and say that he did. But he told the thread flat out that he left himself out of the pool. That just doesn't seem like a scum move to me.
|
VE Thanks for following through with Yam read
With Djo,
Maybe I misread his attempts at a trap; i just did not like at all how he handled the RNG situation between me, oats; I know D1 reads change and develop, but, he really handled it poorly.
Either way, this game has pretty much become a mexican stand-off.
Your onto sl0osh + snarfs; they both onto you etc
On February 12 2013 10:11 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 09:15 VisceraEyes wrote:
Yeah that got nixxed my bad. Cheese multiple times in his filter asks people to make a case on him, or "tunnel me bro"...with the intent to "get a better read on his accusers". That's too attention-whorey to be scummy. Not to mention he's one of like two people who have agreed with me on Snarfs like all game. I'm just not interested in lynching Cheese.
Also, this is a minor point, but something that pretty well seals my read of him: I disagree. Asking people to discourse is not a town tell at all. Its an easy way to gain town cred; so i am surprised you have given CC the green light based on this type of justification. Further, people agreeing with your lynch candidates, is not indicative of town alignment either http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagonSo far, all I have seen are null tells; which you are construing as "sealed" town read.
You have showed some reasoned thoughts with Djo; I would like your opinion on the above.
Thanks,
|
People are completely ignoring my analysis again.
Great.
|
How is CC's meta change scummy?
|
Well to be frank if any fallacy is applicable I'd say that "Compostion-Division" is more applicable...perhaps I think Cheese is town because I find Snarfs scum and so therefor equate having a scumread on Snarfs with townie behavior. It's a fallacy nonetheless, but honestly I haven't played much with Cheese and don't really know what to expect of his meta. All I have to go on are thread actions with that guy, and he's been on my side regarding Snarfs since D1. If Snarfs is scum, this is a dedicated, unwavering bus we're talking about. Scum tend to like their options open, and it seems to me that Cheese has been pressuring Snarfs pretty consistently all game.
Regarding the first part, it's a matter of what's most likely. I'm not saying that it's a town-tell for people to ask others opinions of themselves...but the frequency and consistency that Cheese exhibits that kind of behavior just doesn't seem likely to come from scum.
And finally, and least importantly, prplhz now wants to lynch Cheese.
Show me how Cheese is pushing any kind of scum agenda and we'll talk about scum Cheese...until then, I prefer to talk about someone I have a scumread on...or at the very least someone I don't have a townread on.
|
11589 Posts
Look at Cheese's read switch on me. It's incredibly scummy how he sets himself up to vote me and then keeps his vote on the same person as me.
|
Quote it yamato, im not sure what you are talking about.
|
Oats
Who are the 4 scum ppl to you in the game?
|
11589 Posts
On February 12 2013 01:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Yamato
Because Jay said that Palmar said so I haven't really given a serious look at Yamato until today. I initially wrote him off, because he was the towniest Yamato I've ever seen. In our history, he was always flaming with bias and emotionally posting. He drove the JX lynch home, but it was more lazy posting instead of emotional. This game he is more level-headed, and I just kinda threw a 'leaning town' stamp on him and let it be. Palmar apparently was going for something with Yamato, and Jay just reiterated it. I still think it is bad how Jay went after Yamato like that, but I have to consider that maybe he / Palmar are right. I'm filter diving and coming to my own conclusions on Yamato. On Jay's points: Yamato's flip-flop on MocstaFrom Jay's case, I found it hard to get the grip on this point (he was basically summarizing). The first two pages on his filter are anti-Mocsta and then suddenly out of nowhere is: Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 12:54 yamato77 wrote:
I'm starting to come around to the idea of town Mocsta, actually. I believe he has a scum read on me, wrong or not. I'm not going to pick apart his case on me, because honestly it's too time consuming to do so, but rather, I'll say this: Reread what you've quoted with the idea that I'm town in your head, and you'll see what I've been doing this game. It does no good for you, as town, to continue to pursue me.
With that, I'd be behind a JX lynch. His one post is a "case" and vote on Mocsta. He was a QT spammer in our game together, and was far more active there than the thread, as opposed to his "carefree" town games like LIX. I'd be behind his lynch.
Palmar should also be on people's minds. No, you don't want to lynch Palmar D1 if he's town, but you don't exactly want him staying alive until tomorrow if mafia, either, so if he refuses to do anything for the rest of today I would say he should almost certainly be our lynch. A weak ass joke-vote on Prplhz is not meaningful contribution.
I don't like a Djodref lynch at the moment, but I need to reassess his posting from a more objective standpoint. I was giving him too much credit for his Mocsta read before. Still, I think he is perhaps not the best choice in front of people like JX/Palmar, so he's a backburner for me.
I don't know what's going on between VE/Snarfs, but I don't think people are cool with lynching VE so Snarfs needs some better contributions than a "case" on VE that I don't find to be good. His Mocsta alignment case wasn't getting any traction, so he switches base. This IS a bit odd. Especially for Yamato. The Yamato I know was always ridden with tunneling and never let up. Conceding his position is, from what I'd consider, unlikely for town Yamato. Also, this is bad reasoning for a town Mocsta from him: Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 13:14 yamato77 wrote:
I think Mocsta might be town because I don't think a mafia player went through the effort to make that huge response. -snip- Both alignments respond to cases. A matter of effort is not alignment indicative. JX VoteShow nested quote +On February 07 2013 12:57 yamato77 wrote:
Also,
##Unvote
##Vote JieXian
Or however you spell his name. Where was JX before in Yamato's thinking? I completely missed this tbh. Not much to say about it other than lolwut. List post:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 13:08 yamato77 wrote:
In fact, let me go down my list and tell you guys exactly what I think of the game so far. I know you all hate list posts but whatever, deal with it.
TOWN
Oats
Sloosh
VE
Mocsta
Jay
Prplhz
CC
NULL
Djo
Phagga
MAFIA
Palmar
JX
Snarfs
The only thing left to do in this game is lynch into/see more of the bottom five and figure out which one is the town player. Right now I'd pick Djo.
I didn't list these in any particular order, but my town reads are all fairly decent at the moment. It would take a lot for me to change them. Lists are scummy brah. I have no idea why he thinks I'm town: We've barely even talked. I think our interactions are null at this stage? I don't recall him taking a look at me. Why is he writing me off as town? I'm less concerned about his scumreads, because those conclusions can come from either alignment. I just don't know why certain people have earned the Yamato green stamp of approval. Prphlz town read:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 01:11 yamato77 wrote:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344&user=126438This is prplhz's filter from LIX where he was mafia, lynched D1. While this is only somewhat useful on its own, what is important to note is how he was caught that game, which was through analysis of his meta. So, at the very least, we can assume that some of his posting this game is similar to how he usually plays mafia, and especially so at the beginning of the game. So what characteristics do we use to define that filter? Trollish, disconnected, and overall useless to town. Devoid of reads, or any real interaction. Yes, at some point he realized he was dead and did nothing, but that wasn't the whole day. At least some part of that filter is indicative of his meta, and he hasn't matched it at all this game. On February 06 2013 21:50 prplhz wrote:
I'm on page 15 and scrolling down and seeing who is discussing I just want to say something really quick.
Oatsmaster, Mocsta: Stop focusing on each other. Just by your activity neither of you are up for lynch right now so stop focusing on each other. Whatever useful you could be doing by arguing with each other you've done it by now so quit it and stop messing the thread up. It is bloating the thread and for hardly any reason. Take a deep breath and a step back and focus on something else, if you want better reads on each other then just reread your discussion, I'm sure there's something you missed.
Alright going to read page 15 now.
But seriously, quit it and do something else. This is his first post this game. What is he doing here? Caring about town, and actually giving out reads. Town reads, but reads nonetheless, and some insight into how he got them. This is a stark difference from the trolly attitude he got caught with in LIX. On February 07 2013 04:39 prplhz wrote:On February 07 2013 04:10 yamato77 wrote:
So, I'm mafia because I won't tell you why I think phagga might be town?
Lol. Okay. Sure. Waste today thinking that. Dude, just tell him now. You don't want slOosh and his case on your back today because you're going to end up getting lynched. The case is pretty decent and I'd say you stand a good chance of getting lynched today, or at the very least you're going to attract a lot of attention to yourself which is not something we generally want out of a townie on day 1. So just say what you found in phagga's filter that makes you see him as town in spite of how he has done things that put you on to your main scum read. Your excuse that you wont say because "mafia will just talk about it" doesn't hold. Your read is absolutely void unless you can explain it to other people in this thread so get going please. This post, he keeps with his pro-town theme and gives two more reads. He says I could be lynched, that he agrees with Sloosh's case. Again, he is thinking about who he wants to lynch, why he wants to lynch them, and being townie about it. The dude is green. Mainly a meta case and two quotes saying that he's pro town. Why doesn't Yamato think he can be mafia faking this sentiment? Eeerrrr it's such an easy thing to just slap this town label on someone and never rethink it. The only time I played scum was with Debears, and he did this stuff to me all the time. Beefed up my townie image by defending me and saying I was pro-town because 'insert midly townish post here'. It may be the same case here. Yamato TodayShow nested quote +On February 11 2013 12:45 yamato77 wrote:
One heuristic that I find important to mention about the behavior of people around yesterday's lynch is simple activity.
Assume that Sloosh and Mocsta are town. With Palmar's green flip, that means that I was wrong and mafia decided to make the lynch a choice between three town players. They don't care who dies, really, because any of the three is good for them. So mafia are more inclined to not care at all what happens yesterday. They lurk, slap their vote somewhere, and do nothing relevant to the game because there is zero chance of them getting lynched and they have no reason to push a mafia agenda.
So who fits this bill from yesterday? Snarfs, jay, and djo. Djo is the question mark of the three, because he simply didn't post at all. The other two, however, had very similar days and patterns of activity. They both slapped their vote on someone early, and then basically AFK'd. Right now, I think Snarfs is the best lynch because of this behavior and his similar behavior around the lynch day 1 where he didn't vote JX but rather put Hus vote on VE and used his 'case' as an excuse to not comment on the actual lynch. He should die today.
##Vote Snarfs
As for other reads, obviously I think jay is an acceptable alternative lynch candidate. I defended him early day 1 but since then he's done very little, which is more in line with how I view his scum meta. When he's town he at least cares enough to post his thoughts, but this game he's not even doing that anymore and is probably mafia for it.
Phagga is scummy, as others have outlined. I don't see him as red as I do snarfs or jay, but he's on my radar. If I was making a hypothetical scum team, I'd say the fourth might be Oats. In the past day his activity has dropped off a cliff and I don't know what his reads in the game are anymore. He seems to be sticking to his guns from day 1 but has no new information to support his reads and hasn't been very active in the game.
For town reads, Mocsta and Sloosh look really town to me, mostly from their play while under the gun. I'm more confident on Mocsta than Sloosh, but I would defend either one's towniness. VE and prplhz are also both town to me, despite other player's suspicions of them. If I need to defend them today, I will, because neither show scum traits to me at all.
Cheesecake, you asked for my read on you. You lean town to me, but you're real blendy and not at all confrontational like I think town CC is. I suppose you haven't been accused seriously yet, but you also aren't going out of your way to pressure your reads like I think town CC usually does. You're more null than I expected at this point in the game.
If you guys think I'm mafia for serious, come at me, but neither case from yesterday is at all good. I've been the towniest yamato of all time. Bring the cases on. Even if Snarfs fits that bill, this is a shitty reason to be voting people alone. I don't agree that we should be looking mainly at activity from the nomination lynch. It's like a cop-out on forming decent reads... Also, he just calls me blendy and null reads me when I ask him to look into me. Seriously, I give him a GOLDEN opportunity to get some information about me, which I will respond to. He just null reads like a boss. Why doesn't he want to snuggle up with me and get to know each other? Town Yamato loves to interact / cuddle with me. Scum Yamato is afraid because he knows I'll call him out on his BS. I'd consider lynching Yamato today. My gut tells me to go all wagon of justice lynch Snarfs mode. Unfortunately he's another fucking lurker right now. I need to hear more than 'Oh I'm going to be doing family things! Lynch VE bro's, here are some scummers that are a good choice. Luckily I have alllll day to question him. That is, if he'll respond. @SnarfsHey Snarfs, Snarfypoo. Can I call you Snarfypoo? You know, you're playing this Mafia game right now and it would be really cool if you did things. Two things: Why shouldn't I lynch you right now? and Top scumreads, minus VE. I know your stance on him. Give reasoning. Be cool and awesome like that.
This is AFTER he argues with jay about his case on me and calls it bad.
|
I dont really see thats its all that scummy.
He just made a case, but concluded that he rather lynch Snarfs.
Voting the same person as your scumread doesnt mean much. Ever heard of busses?
|
Scum:
Snarfs
Prp
not so scummy but still pretty scummy.
slOosh
phagga
Djo
|
Yamato I agree that Cheese saying he'll lynch you while voting Snarfs is weird but it can be just as easily explained by a townie Cheese tryingnto pressure a lurker Snarfs. But the way he like...continues to shed scummy light on jay all the while...
I'm gonna sleep on it. That IS scummier than I thought at first. :/
@Cheese
I'd like a little clarity regarding your lynch preference. Would you rather lynch yamato or Snarfs? Why do you think he makes a better lynch?
|
On February 12 2013 17:52 Oatsmaster wrote:
I dont really see thats its all that scummy.
He just made a case, but concluded that he rather lynch Snarfs.
Voting the same person as your scumread doesnt mean much. Ever heard of busses?
Yamato is on the money man.
Who goes to the effort of building a case; and then saying at the end.. oohh
I'd consider lynching you.
Thats straight out scum vibe.
Tack that on with his chainsaw defense on yamato yesterday (over jay) its now not looking good @ all.
The only reason i felt good about cheese, was because he laid into phagga; but cc actions on his own dont hold up anymore.
|
And actually before I go
##Unvote
##Vote Snarfs
Oats I think Snarfs more likely today...but if that changes I SWEAR I'll be back. My vote is on prolhz in spirit.
|
On February 12 2013 14:01 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 13:57 Mocsta wrote:On February 12 2013 13:53 yamato77 wrote:On February 12 2013 13:50 jaybrundage wrote:On February 12 2013 13:37 yamato77 wrote:On February 12 2013 13:36 jaybrundage wrote:
Yamato why am i not scum Because scum jay wouldn't openly sheep Palmar. Scum jay barely even had reads to begin with, not even sheep reads. If Palmar has bad reads why wouldn't i sheep them as scum. @Oats I fail to see what you are trying to do. Scum jay wouldn't admit to sheeping, because it draws attention to the fact that he's not making independent analysis. Town jay doesn't care, and often gets lynched for saying scummy things like that. Why are you arguing with me about this? Mocsta's dumb argument that I "give up" my scum reads is blatantly false. Plenty of people opposed my opinion on JX, on Prplhz, on YOU, on Palmar, etc., yet I persisted. Because I'm town, and confident in my reads, wrong or not. I am not sure what your talking about; I dont recall building a case on you as the points were already highlighted by others. What I have requested is you address the points; you refuse to. each and every time. That summary post of yours, is not how to make a defense (if your serious about being town) if you are the vote leader (which either you are, or pretty fuckn close) I did address them. If you can't read that post and understand how the arguments I outlined there are false, you have comprehension problems, and I can't help that. Go away.
Yamato, why did you sit on your reads D2? I asked this before, but never got an answer. I would also like to know more about your thought process when you said that Mocsta is no longer a scumread of yours D1 (I pointed that out in this post.
Mocsta, what do you think of the two points I raised regarding VE?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
