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Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 25 2013 12:19 DearestSnot wrote:
as for annul (sorry, I neglected to respond to that) I still am quite unsure how to read him, but I'm leaning town on him for an almost singular reason.
Basically when gonzaw was outted as a mason he took the time to ask if anyone had been masoned by gonzaw. I do not think that as scum in that position he would have done that. He had been afk for quite a while already up to that point, why bother trying to clear up the situation? He could have simply continued doing what he had already been doing.
Perhaps this is a minor point, and he really hasn't done anything else, but I somehow don't feel like annul is actually scum.
I agree with this, for slightly different reasons. I'm willing to bet he's town at this stage.
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On January 25 2013 12:20 debears wrote:
I have been masoned. Apparently 24 hours ago
Thanks BC!
Lol by gonzaw? haha
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On January 25 2013 12:23 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 12:20 debears wrote:
I have been masoned. Apparently 24 hours ago
Thanks BC! Lol by gonzaw? haha
No. the mason I speak of is all good and well. I'm sad 24 hours have passed though 
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On January 25 2013 12:10 DearestSnot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2013 12:05 BroodKingEXE wrote:On January 24 2013 20:48 Chezinu wrote:On January 24 2013 16:51 DearestSnot wrote:On January 24 2013 16:27 BroodKingEXE wrote:On January 24 2013 16:02 Mocsta wrote:
Toad, if you are there. (Or anyone else)
Is there any discussions that can be had over Chezinu random vote swapping towards the end?
(Chez -> Austin -> BKE -> Gonzaw) Fits with the trolly style of Chezinu, as it had no effect on the actual election I dont suspect treachery. add to whatever scum heuristics that BKE is not reading the thread, though that should not surprise anyone at all. Chezinu admitted himself he tried to get Austin/gonzaw elected over Toad, he clearly was trying to influence the election. He also had a fairly strong mayoral candidacy despite not even really talking about lynch candidates. He mentioned prplhz only really upon being prompted for it, and till now he still hasn't given forth any reads. "fits with the trolly style of chezinu" is a pretty shitty way of dismissing his play, which is not what anyone should be doing right now. You know BKE was kind of right too. It was a mix up of both. Its true I didn't really want toad to be sheriff. I still don't understand why everyone likes him. So, I jumped on austin -- I wasn't able to get to thread sooner. After posting and seeing it was 6:58 if I recall right (my time - 2 minutes before deadline). I noticed that it was over. So, I saw broodking posted above me and decided to have fun. So I copied pasted my previous post and then copy pasted BKE's name in the spot where austin's name was. posted. Then I copy pasted again my previous vote. This time, I have had to scroll up to get another name. I thought I could spell gonzaw, but failed. Lol, I typed gonaz just now on accident. Then revoted and it was over.As for the not voting 5touch, I still wanted to be mayor. When I noticed that I wasn't going to win, there was no need to switch my vote to him b/c he was already in the lead. Everyone in town knew at the end, we where just trying to decided on a sheriff. So why people like toads? idk. But I do know that I like turtles. Mommy dearest, are you really not reading the thread? Wasn't it you who claimed very early that "I didn't have a lynch candidate?" I recall responding to you to point out that I clarity mentioned that I was going to lynch based on the Chezinu Rule. The Chezinu Rule is very specific. Did you in fact read my last game? You certainly quoted the very post that I used the Chezinu Rule last game. You even compared my activity levels from this game to last, which really doesn't mean much. Let's see, last game I was not in school and on vacation. There was also no PMs that game either. Nor was their a mayoral election. You have to take all these factors into consideration, but even if you do... Chezinu is Chezinu! You mention how previous game I pointed out that Palmar was town. Well, if you read that last game you would know everyone was attacking Palmar. Someone had to try saving him! This game 5touch who I trust, seemed to be safe. As for those I don't trust, you would be amongst them. 5touch should already know some of my other reads. Chez realized the vote was over so he trolled cause it didnt matter at that point. He couldn't do anythinto get Gonzaw in because he didnt have the votes. that's not what he's saying, if you read the next paragraph you see that he was talking about the sheriff election as if he had influence in that. He clearly did, he was only 1 vote away from getting gonzaw elected. They just needed one vote, anyone who said "oh well I don't feel so sure about Toad" or any scum who was willing to jump with him could have gotten gonzaw elected. Even if they sacrificed themselves for it (doubtful, given that I do not recall that anyone suspected Chezinu for that vote swap except for maybe me) they could have surely secured gonzaw that position. We would probably WIFOM ourselves out of lynching gonzaw just like we did earlier today in the absence of the DT check. In addition they could have argued that they thought Toad was scum mason, or that gonzaw looked townier, or whatever crock shit they might come up with, and they'd be able to get away with it. If they were scum together they could even claim mason partners, and that'd take pressure off them even further. I can think of a multitude of ideas and ways in which they could have done that. A mafia godfather coupled with a framer would make it so that there would be two innocents-to-checks making those votes, and then getting gonzaw into sheriff would make a third person unreadable. These are obviously simply speculations but to pass them off as not being likely or possible because of the attention it draws is being naive, IMO. Chezinu and gonzaw are good enough players that I can see them at the very least trying to pull this off. (and no, I'm not a fan of these types of theories but the possibility exists. I think Chezinu is scum for bigger reasons than these, but we have to somehow figure out who supported gonzaw, and which of his supporters were scum. I seriously doubt that he ran without support from his teammates.)
The second paragraph says he didn't like Toad as sheriff. I'm not sure on the timeframe, but if Chez returned to the thread at around the time I did( there was a gap in posting). He really couldn't have done anything, as Toad had four votes by that time.
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5touch I have to talk to you about said mason and figure out whether he contacted you already or not and why he masoned me
I will think of encryption
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Something interesting I noticed:
Hide nested quote -
Original Message From yamato77:
You masoned me and have yet to PM me.
What are your reads so far for the game?
grush:
Sorry I thought the host would reply and confirm it or something.
I think your town because of your posts, and thats why I masoned you.
I think gonzaw is townie, good posts.
I don't like vivax.
Crazy de-lurk by mkfuba
I would get behind a chezinu mayor spot.
Why does grush call gonzaw townie, but vote Chezinu for mayor?
Both Chezinu and Axle swapped off onto gonzaw from Chez later, why did grush not do so?
the fact that he was given mason seems really weird, but perhaps it's one of those "is this too dumb to be scum?" kind of moments where thinking about it in that fashion really doesn't accomplish anything.
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Marshall Islands1474 Posts
debears, I was contacted by no-one last cycle, so it's impossible I think that he's talked to me before and you now.
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Marshall Islands1474 Posts
[QUOTE]On January 25 2013 12:36 DearestSnot wrote:
Something interesting I noticed:
[quote]
Hide nested quote -
Original Message From yamato77:
You masoned me and have yet to PM me.
What are your reads so far for the game?
grush:
Sorry I thought the host would reply and confirm it or something.
I think your town because of your posts, and thats why I masoned you.
I think gonzaw is townie, good posts.
I don't like vivax.
Crazy de-lurk by mkfuba
I would get behind a chezinu mayor spot.[/quote]
Why does grush call gonzaw townie, but vote Chezinu for mayor?
Both Chezinu and Axle swapped off onto gonzaw from Chez later, why did grush not do so?
the fact that he was given mason seems really weird, but perhaps it's one of those "is this too dumb to be scum?" kind of moments where thinking about it in that fashion really doesn't accomplish anything. [/QUOTE
You always try to rationalise grush (and players like him) too much
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Marshall Islands1474 Posts
reposting:
On January 25 2013 12:36 DearestSnot wrote:Something interesting I noticed: Show nested quote +
Hide nested quote -
Original Message From yamato77:
You masoned me and have yet to PM me.
What are your reads so far for the game?
grush:
Sorry I thought the host would reply and confirm it or something.
I think your town because of your posts, and thats why I masoned you.
I think gonzaw is townie, good posts.
I don't like vivax.
Crazy de-lurk by mkfuba
I would get behind a chezinu mayor spot.
Why does grush call gonzaw townie, but vote Chezinu for mayor? Both Chezinu and Axle swapped off onto gonzaw from Chez later, why did grush not do so? the fact that he was given mason seems really weird, but perhaps it's one of those "is this too dumb to be scum?" kind of moments where thinking about it in that fashion really doesn't accomplish anything.
You always try to rationalise grush (and players like him) too much
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yeah, you're probably right.
My biggest weakness is making sense of things that don't actually make sense, from players who are known to do things routinely that make no sense.
At least with prplhz and gonzaw I knew they wouldn't do stupid shit as town, so rationalization and logic worked there.
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Why is BKE so focused on speaking on behalf of Chezinu? Literally 3/4 of his filter is talking about the vote business.
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Marshall Islands1474 Posts
Not only on behalf, but defending him repeatedly on the same point.
The answer to your question is obvious enough.
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On January 25 2013 12:35 debears wrote:
5touch I have to talk to you about said mason and figure out whether he contacted you already or not and why he masoned me
I will think of encryption
Impossible.
FT said his mason spoke to Chezinu yesterday, and FT today.
mason lasts day + night cycle (as Toad log with sandroba continued into night 1 IIRC)
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Looks like BKE/Chezinu lynch Day 3?
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rofl poor Gonzaw, his filter is a gold mine. He did the exact same thing with BKE as he did with prplhz. Gonzaw's filter also makes clarity and Oats pretty much 100% town. He put forth both names as alternatives to prplhz as day 1 lynches. Despite BKE looking exactly the same to clarity on d1, BKE was not even mentioned. He acknowledged BKE's existence in thread, but did not call him out or call him scummy, only warning him in thread that perhaps he should hold his vote because he wouldn't be informed, given that he was afk. Annul also looks better in light of what gonzaw was saying. Stutters looks rather better, given that he was also an alternative for gonzaw's candidacy as a lynch on d1. There's that minor thing with stutters promising a read-post (because he was on his phone and forgot to submit or something like that) but I don't think that's a huge deal.
I'm about 98% sure BKE is mafia in light of that as well. I'd really just love to double lynch BKE and Chez tomorrow in fact. I think Chez is slightly less likely to flip scum, but given how adamant BKE has been about it I would not at all be surprised if they both are. Also, gonzaw strangely asks to see serious Chezinu but never actually pushes toward it, never follows up on it. I would expect scum to jump on a town Chezinu who is pushing a mayoral candidacy despite not doing anything. Yet, Chezinu took very little bad attention d1, and particularly little from gonzaw, if any at all. That's surprising to me (from a town-Chez perspective)
The last person I think deserves attention for being scum is mkfuba.
Note that you can ctrl-f every player's name in gonzaw's filter and the only one you will not find is mkfuba. Grush is also almost never mentioned, only 3 times.
Is that reciprocal? Well, look at mkfuba's filter.
Well, mkfuba supported gonzaw day 1. He was thinking about voting gonzaw. Literally the only reason I considered mkfuba town was because he supported FT being mayor and gave some sort of weak scumread of prplhz. However, his read of gonzaw is really strange and the rest of his filter just looks awful.
For example, look at this post:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344¤tpage=96#1917
He promises to look further at gonzaw and Chezinu but never does so. In fact, his next post is over 14 hours and something like 20 pages later, when gonzaw has been outted as mafia. It's also strange how self-focused some of his posts were. He seems fully aware of how scummy he is, but not very aware of anything else that is going on. Case in point, this post:
On January 22 2013 06:15 mkfuba07 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 04:59 sandroba wrote:
Yes, definitely. I'm wary on lynching prpl based on FT voters. Oats may still not be mafia, i don't think mkfuba can. Also I'm back to JX being likely scum based on how the thread is going and his activity after his suspicion faded away. You actually think it's impossible for me to be town based on my posts? I'll be the first to admit that I'm bringing little to the table right now (no one is constantly aware of it as much as I am), but I'm giving what I can. I don't see how I'm 100% scum, especially when I know that it's just the opposite. I find that people frown upon reads based on unexplained "feelings", which is pretty much all I have regarding everyone in this game thus far. Things that other people have latched onto as significant evidence of town or scum aren't really convincing me. I don't know if I'm just not following, or I disagree. I guess I'm mainly just waiting for my "A-ha!" moment, the one where I feel something's up, and am able to pinpoint its source. Until then, I'm roughly an observer. That's why I ask for questions, to force my own involvement. To give me a means of entering the game. Otherwise, I'll just argue with myself instead of posting in the thread. I did it in the game you linked, as well. As for what I said sounding "fake", I don't know what to tell you. I felt like I finally had something to latch onto. That got taken away. Now all I have are a few town reads, and some "maybe scum" reads that I'm basically taking from the people I'm thus far trusting. What I said was how I felt.
FT, thoughts on anything I've said here?
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Marshall Islands1474 Posts
I pretty much agree with everything you say on BKE and Chezinu there. fuba? You might be correct, but I have him lightly town for the fact that he supported me killing prplhz on Day 1. He simply didn't have to do that. And I know he's an intelligent enough guy not to do such things just because.
For what it's worth, my two comments on him in my notes read, from Day 1:
"even less content than usual. but voted me wanting to kill prplhz. could easily have kept his vote on austin or elsewhere."
and Day 2:
"nothing i wouldn't expect him to do as town"
It's possible that I'm wrong on him, but there's a couple of other players I'd look at first.
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Marshall Islands1474 Posts
Just to note - I'll check out gonzaw's filter myself tomorrow, but all the reads you associated from gonzaw's filter in your first paragraph there were the way I was leaning on all of those players already. Which is quite nice.
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On January 25 2013 12:42 DearestSnot wrote:
Why is BKE so focused on speaking on behalf of Chezinu? Literally 3/4 of his filter is talking about the vote business.
Cause we are/were having a discussion about whether or not scum tried to get Gonzaw elected. There are things that Chezinu has said already, to indicate that his vote switching was not indicative of a scum sheriff push. I'm seeing you put scenarios out there, that are as likely as they are not likely(50/50 chance), which is basically WIFOM.
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Marshall Islands1474 Posts
One other, only half-serious point - Djodref and Axle's conversation in the pre-game where Djodref was telling Axle he didn't think Axle would be able to post as much as he had when he was town... look who's been posting much less of late.
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for anyone who is not sure about Chezinu being mafia, look at this post.
On January 21 2013 11:15 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2013 11:06 DearestSnot wrote:##vote FiveTouchOn January 21 2013 11:01 FiveTouch wrote:On January 21 2013 10:58 sandroba wrote:
@FT i'm actually kinda torn on that post, the way it's written it looks a bit sincere and from stream of thought. I agree the content is poor, but his latest games prpl has been kind of angry mode. Has prplhz rolled town since Rock Band? In any case, I grab a post from there, where he was under suspicion early: On September 18 2012 08:54 prplhz wrote:On September 18 2012 08:37 Blazinghand wrote:
Also, you literally stopped posting when I posted the case on you, so there's that. Yea I had just queue a game of DotA2 when you posted it and then I decided that I would rather see how it other people reacted before shooting it down. I don't really get the first argument. You are saying that my first posts are similar in my scum games, this doesn't make me scum. Then you argue that the first posts themselves have a distinct scummy agenda which is very disputable but more importantly, do you really think that any scum feel the need to push any agenda in their first post? I think that my first post is townie, I think that for all of those scum games you posted. At least the content is townie. Not everything scum posts is scummy. As for the "He's not quick to vote", no that's right, I didn't vote yet during the first 30 minutes of the game. I think it's a very thin argument that I should be scum because of that. I think I like to play both styles styles of "aggressive" and "careful and prodding" as town, I guess it all depends on what mood I am in. Anyway, I think your case on me looks townie and with everything else you've posted I'm pretty confident that you're town.
austinmcc, I thought this guy looked really scummy up until this post. It's especially his explanation of that single word "OBVIOUS" that seems very townie to me. It looks like he really thought carefully about my alignment and didn't consider covering his own ass or anything like that. I like that. Townie for now. Mementoss is a little harder. I think he just voted me because I posted a dumb picture and corrected his grammar. That can be really antagonizing I hate when people do that to me when I make a dumb little mistake. Overall I've got a townie feeling about him. marvellosity is pretty shabby for now. Show me some of that "thinky" that you promised before the game. We also need everybody else to join the game and post some more. Here he rationally talks about the case made on him, with little anger. He goes on to share thoughts on several players of the game, while also encouraging people to post more. This attitude doesn't mesh with the prplhz that I've seen so far this game. I noticed this as well when I was reading Rock Band, it's a good sign that we both came to the same conclusion on that independently. Chezinu, since you are here, can you explain whom you would lynch if elected? I seriously doubt you will be elected, but as a hypothetical, at any rate. Also, whom would you be willing to vote? Why are you interested in being mayor over voting someone else? Are you really not reading my posts? It makes me think that you are not wbg. Who says I won't vote someone else? Myself is a great place holder. I like austin. I was thinking gonaz pre-game but it seems no one is voting for him. I forgot who else is running...
Chezinu claimed to want to lynch prpl when I called him out.
So here when I'm curious about who he wants to put into mayor, he says austin and gonzaw. He seems to also be curiously perceptive about how many people are voting gonzaw, when I do not think Chezinu as town would care about numbers like that. I think as town he would simply vote for whomever supported the type of lynch he did, and whomever seemed towniest/best suited for the role.
So, let's come to the bolded.
At the point I voted FT, IIRC both he AND myself had expressed interest in lynching prplhz, myself especially so. If Chezinu truly was interested in killing prplhz at that point, how would he suddenly forget the two mayoral candidates who share his interest?
I don't buy that shit at all. In even more simple terms, how could he forget FT is running when he quoted a post in which I voted for FT?
The funniest part about all of this is that he accused me of not reading.
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EPT
