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grush57
Korea (South)2582 Posts
On January 24 2013 09:21 iamperfection wrote: hrmmmmmmm pondering the possibilities. Mr lazer any updated thoughts because i have some thoughts on you now. But would like to hear what you think of the remaining players. lazer thoughts on the wbg case | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
hapa's main push on d1 of that game was debears. He voted thrawn once and then promptly unvoted him and tunneled debears the rest of d1. His vote ended on Z-Bos and from what I could tell it spent the least time on thrawn. He might have voted thrawn, but he didn't push him. He definitely pushed debears, and one could argue he tried to push DP and Z-Bo, too. The situations are also quite different-in this game, Hapa was under almost no pressure until yesterday, whereas in that game he was under pressure since day 1. The only alternative to grush really is jay and remotely Xata, if we believe scum have been holding RB. It's rather ambiguous though, whether they held RB or used it on the night Hapa claimed it. If Xata is scum then slOosh's claim of Xata being blue is the perfect excuse to hold RB, but still, I'm not that sure. Unfortunately none of these players are very easy to read. grush's back and forth with me seemed motivated but then what do we do with the rest of his play? Just ignore it? Do we just ignore jay's/xata's lack of contributions? How do we read these guys? You don't seem to want to do anything to help me out either, which is bothersome. You are most definitely town, don't you want to win this game? Why are you guys so passive in this type of situation when you know that a single mislynch will cause us to lose?! | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On January 24 2013 09:34 iamperfection wrote: like bugs i think hapa even said in the obs of that thread that his play that game was designed to be wifom mind traps. Hapa knows that he has to be somewhat of a leader as scum so he almost always comments on everything regardless of him being scum. that just my perspective on the issue. --------------------------------------------------- Tell me bugs are you surprised at all that lazer didn't vote for hapa sooner? you mean like jay and xata? | ||
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iamperfection
United States9639 Posts
why the doubt from him | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On January 24 2013 09:46 iamperfection wrote: hapa gave up. scum wold have easily jumped on him but lazer seemed more cautious in his approach to me. why the doubt from him let me reread. I don't recall doubt, I just recall him being afk. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9639 Posts
On January 23 2013 05:40 Lazermonkey wrote: I'm kind of getting to the point where I think he is scum purely by the process of elimination. Xata is probebly town. You seem very town. WBG does look far better than he did before in my eyes. Stuff like Seems to be comming from town. Had he been scum, I think he would've been more inclined to swap over to me. I think that Hopeless last minute post was looking very townie, and if WBG had actually pushed me I very well could've died. After that, we could risk exactly what WBG said. Even if Hopeless would survive today, he would have a hard time surviving tomorrow. And by that time he'd look even worse. That leaves grush, Jay and Hapa. Atm I think grush is looking the worst, but I'm cool with Hapa lynch as well. why didnt he just vote here or attack hapa more strongly he just said he was scum by elimination. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Was it actually clear hapa would die at the beginning of the day? He didn't troll until some time into the day. He was afk that entire time. though, unfortunately, so were most of the other players, IIRC it was really only me and you in the thread early on | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
He also magically went from considering xata as the third scum over lazer back to lazer. Look: On January 22 2013 08:28 grush57 wrote: Xata, I think your the 3rd scum and not lazermonkey or you don't know what your talking about. Hopeless was actively trying to promote discussion and was the only one active. I realized this so I went on lazermonkey. Those were 2 days apart. I don't know how you think I did it for town cred when lazermonkey could of been lynched too at that point. those were like 3 posts apart, with no intermediate explanation at all. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9639 Posts
That would mean scum team was putting their eggs in trying to get a mis-lynch on you. im thinking one of grush and lazer is town. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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iamperfection
United States9639 Posts
On January 24 2013 09:55 wherebugsgo wrote: his switch from Hopeless to Hapa still makes absolutely no sense to me. I don't get it at all. It was such a convenient time for him to switch and I think almost everyone at that point perceived Hopeless as looking worse than Hapa. he actually switched to lazer first hopeless was looking townie to me towards the end. | ||
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grush57
Korea (South)2582 Posts
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iamperfection
United States9639 Posts
On January 24 2013 09:58 grush57 wrote: After you voted Hopeless, I was confident that he was going to get mislynched so I wanted to show that Hapa was scum :D ya but you wasted your vote making it impossible to save that town read of your's | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
It's a common scum tactic to kill off all the vets except the one that is "most wrong" and in this case really there weren't many vets to shoot in the first place. This is because if you have an active on the scumteam they will have a much better chance of staying alive if there are other vets who are also alive. It's how Radfield, myself, Ace, etc. often operate as scum. We shoot the scariest vets, and then leave alive some who we feel we can manipulate or lead off the wrong path, regardless of how right their reads are at any given time. Sometimes we do it to players who are somewhat right, just to throw them off, or to players who are wrong, since we have no fear of them. In my case I basically did a lot of the work for scum. I went along and killed slOosh, and I would have definitely policy lynched Ruuch day 1 if enough votes had come my way. d3 I sided for Hopeless over Hapa. That's two mislynches (and I feel perhaps I should have done more to defend Prom) and a free SK lynch. So if I die and Hapa is left alive then it puts a looot of pressure on him when his main target (Hopeless) flips town. However if we are both alive then some of the pressure is shared by me. The only other player who has attacked me is Xata really, but that was earlier on, and it was perhaps even quite ballsy of him to do that. You say lazer attacked me? I don't recall. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On January 24 2013 09:58 iamperfection wrote: he actually switched to lazer first hopeless was looking townie to me towards the end. yes, to me as well, but when he switched that was before the key things Hopeless said. At the time he switched Hopeless was simply arguing as he had done before. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9639 Posts
On January 20 2013 05:29 Lazermonkey wrote: Hopeless is probebly scum after all... Sure, his play is similar to what it was last game but on the other hand him playing similar to last game when he was town is actually completely irrelevant because it actually doesn't tell us anything about his play as scum. Also, his play overall simply isn't townie at all. His posted some long posts some time ago but the first one was just him echoing what he said D2, Hapa + Lazer are scum. The second one was talking about setup. Why would you as town in this position do something like that? A townie who is just about to die would do ANYTHING to help his team get on the right track and give out all reads because when he flips, everyone will know that what he said was comming from a townie who at least wanted to hunt scum. Him repeating reads isn't helpfull at all. We would go through his filter anyway once he flips and find those reads. With that being said, Hopeless is going to get lynched today it seems, and spending more time explaining why he is scum seems ##Vote: Hopeless WBG Wbgs vote pattern yesterday is veeery funky indeed. He voted/unvoted between SlOosh and Hopeless no less than 5(!) times. Let's look a little bit closer at all this. The first voteAfter this WBG goes on to put HEAVY pressure on SlOosh, points out several things in SlOosh play that makes him scum. The second vote While admittedly I think he is getting convinced by the guy he thinks he scum a little bit too fast, I don't really see any problem with this vote. He did state quite explicit that he had Hopeless down as scum. The third voteNow, this is when things start to get fishy. WBG states that because he read my post about about Hopeless play last game and how its similar to last game, he is now much more inclined to belive that Hopeless looks town, or at least much better. However, I have a hard time thinking this is what actually happend. In last game, all of us three were town. Me and WBG were heavily suspicious of Hopeless that game(WBG filter). Both of us were pushing him hard core. I have a hard time seeing that WBG just forgot all this in a few days and needed my post as a reminder, especially since he seems to be a guy remembering things like this. For example, he was very fast at dissmissing my accusations against Jay PURELY based on meta from another game, a game that was played about a month ago. Also note how during the time that he voted Hopeless, He doesn't really pressure him at all. He only has one post asking Hopeless about whether or not he is willing to lynch into SlOosh or not. This is in stark difference to when he was pushing SlOosh scum. The forth vote Once again, this is a very scummy vote. In just three hours he went from saying that he liked Hopeless posting much more, that he saw similarities to his last game and that SlOosh was scum to the opposite. Hopeless doesn't actually post even once during the time between the third and forth vote. WBG is instead convinced by Hapa's arguments on the issue. During the time between those two votes WBG goes on to say that Hopeless is a good lynch once again. But what happend with Hopeless improved posting? What happend with the meta read that made him look more town? And during this time, WBG still seems convinced that SlOosh is a good lynch, yet he votes Hopeless. He also tells us to conolidate which is strange because the votecount at this point was looking like this: The fifth and final vote Not much to say. WBG doesn't really motivate this swap at all and would he have voted Hopeless, hopeless would've died. Summary: WBG is flipping his vote like a mad man between Hopeless and SlOosh. However, while he is pushing SlOsh hard, he doesn't push hopeless at all. He even pushes SlOosh while he is voting Hopeless. As for the last scum, I'm not sure. My best guess at this point is grush because of the simple explanation that I have a town read, albeit not too strong, on every else. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
It made me actually question my scumread of him though, because it seemed like he put so much effort into that. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9639 Posts
ill think about it more before the deadline. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
The upsides to a lazer lynch: he's escaped close lynches already downsides: there are plenty of sort of vague heuristics that we can apply to his play to call him town. Why is jay town? Can we answer that question? What has he done? | ||
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iamperfection
United States9639 Posts
On January 24 2013 10:08 wherebugsgo wrote: I thought you meant more recently, tbh. That was over 4 days ago. The upsides to a lazer lynch: he's escaped close lynches already downsides: there are plenty of sort of vague heuristics that we can apply to his play to call him town. Why is jay town? Can we answer that question? What has he done? im gonna read jays filter tomorrow he really hasn't been on my radar from my skim through i see lots of questions being asked which is ok i guess but he does have tendency to just sumarize what has happened which is something i think is scummy because its a way to appear to contribute while not actually doing it. | ||
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