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Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
January 07 2013 20:00 GMT
#661
Ninja'd by Hapa t.t
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
January 07 2013 20:04 GMT
#662
On January 08 2013 04:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2013 04:31 Hapahauli wrote:
In school right now - interested to hear a reply to dp's case, as well as scumreads


In terms of DP's case.. It's alright. He's wrong, but I'm pretty scummy and much of the argument does hold water. However, I'm fairly disinterested with the pressure on me right now. I don't think I'll be lynched tomorrow, and I won't sit here and waste time deflecting every point brought against me. We can all settle on the fact that I'm super scummy right now, and that's fine with me.


I would like you to be concerned, because I'm interested in hearing you defend what looks like a reasonable case against you.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
January 07 2013 20:17 GMT
#663
On January 08 2013 05:04 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2013 04:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On January 08 2013 04:31 Hapahauli wrote:
In school right now - interested to hear a reply to dp's case, as well as scumreads


In terms of DP's case.. It's alright. He's wrong, but I'm pretty scummy and much of the argument does hold water. However, I'm fairly disinterested with the pressure on me right now. I don't think I'll be lynched tomorrow, and I won't sit here and waste time deflecting every point brought against me. We can all settle on the fact that I'm super scummy right now, and that's fine with me.


I would like you to be concerned, because I'm interested in hearing you defend what looks like a reasonable case against you.


His main point is that I just "heap shit on weak players". I don't know how you'd like me to defend that, because it's true. Some people need shit heaped on them to start doing stuff. Most of it is based on my shitty stream post, which, as all indicates, heaps shit on players. I heap some shit here and there, it's all fine. I want answers. And if you have to dig your way out that's perfectly fine with me.

The thread has been pathetically inactive for how long the game has been going. If I have to make myself seem scummy to generate some sort of response, well here we have it.

Problem is, I haven't heard from players that are really concerning like SP or Yamato.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
January 07 2013 20:23 GMT
#664
Making yourself look scummy to elicit a response is not good town play. Are you suggesting you've been posting with this hidden intention?

Also, you can generate discussion without looking bad.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
January 07 2013 20:27 GMT
#665
On January 08 2013 05:23 Hapahauli wrote:
Making yourself look scummy to elicit a response is not good town play. Are you suggesting you've been posting with this hidden intention?

Also, you can generate discussion without looking bad.


Lol it's not a hidden intention. But apparently it's a side effect that was somehow generated one way or the other.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
January 07 2013 20:35 GMT
#666
ShiaoPi is a chronic defender. He spends more time defending / justifying himself than he does actually being useful.

+ Show Spoiler +
On January 04 2013 12:06 ShiaoPi wrote:
Well I am trying not to be lurky, but sometimes shit does come up, so I cannot gurantee being much more active than usually.
@MrZentor:
I agree on your point of just having general guidelines instead of a limit by which the vote must happen. While we should use the additional time we have, I don't like setting up something definite, it just gives scum an easier way to move in a set frame.


On January 05 2013 14:07 ShiaoPi wrote:
@Jay:
I am doing a pressure vote on Rise since his last post seemed to me as if he would just be gone for a couple of hours before popping back into the thread, as he has not done so, I believe myself justified well enough, since I have questions for him that I want answered.

I think you got ninja'ed by me during writing your post. I did give out a stancee on his posting. I also fail to see how I have tried to lie low in this game....
Your case seems really weak to me.
/shrug



On January 05 2013 14:28 ShiaoPi wrote:
@Jay:
I said that the exchange they had read kind of townish. But that I disliked DP's reluctance to vote. Xatalos is null just as easy as that.

Read that post again please.
I clearly said that DP is the weaker read of the two and that his behaviour does not add up. My thoughtprocess is right in that post.


With all that is happening in thread right now I am tending towards lynching DP, but I would really hear more from Rise and yamato


On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:

Xatalos:
I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait.
-snip-



On January 06 2013 17:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I do scumhunt, just because I am not writing a case on anything that moves does not mean I am not doing it...
Boson is pretty much town in my eyes, no reason to share his spreadsheet with his thoughts lined out with us if he were scum. Also he has directly started to scumhunt as soon as he replaced in, gets lots of towniepoints from me.

CC is someone I don't want to lynch today, you may think him scummy for not making a shitton of cases but that is just a difference in playstyle imo. Looking through his filter he is actively trying to get more information out of people by asking questions promoting discussing. What I dislike is parking his vote on MrZ but that is nothing to be honest.



On January 06 2013 19:11 ShiaoPi wrote:
@yamato:
While I like you doing more analysis, there is some stuff I do not agree with. Especially the first post you quoted with the guidelines on time. Hapa actually wanted a self-imposed deadline of 72h, which is something I did not agree to. So taking that quote from Zentor out of context makes it seem as it were all the time pushing for lynching somebody to end it the day. That is simply wrong. I can also sympathise with his sentiment that we really should start consolidating on someone by now. A much longer day 1 has negative effect on us imo.
You are right when you say that his play is not necessarily pro-town by now. But I can understand where he comes from to a certain degree, which explains why I said earlier that I am torn on all my candidates for today's lynch.

@Xatalos:
Nice that you have popped in, but not only are you dead wrong on me but your case is crap. I expected more than cherrypicking my filter for bits you can build something on.

I cannot even fathom how you critisize me for putting a vote on Rise as pressure when he had done jackshit at that moment.
The next two quotes are an answer to a question I was asked to. I was asked who the other options of mine were, I responded. Don't even see what is wrong with them as if you have studied my filter it is pretty clear why I listed each of them.
Now towards my stances being neutral and weak is stupid as shit. I posted my thoughts on the players I found suspicious at the moment and pressured them when they were around see the entire dialogue between me and yamato just above.
As icing on the cake you take a game from almost half a year back (which was also one of my newbie games) as a "meta-argument". That is a nice example of false usage of meta-arguments. If you want to study my meta at least take the most recent game in which I was town (which is LVII if I recall correctly) and compare it to this game...

This is just terribly bad and feels forced.

##vote: Xatalos

On January 06 2013 21:27 ShiaoPi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2013 20:05 Xatalos wrote:
On January 06 2013 19:41 ShiaoPi wrote:
On January 06 2013 19:36 Xatalos wrote:
On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.

call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.

Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch


When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then).



Several people have mentioned you as a possible lynch candidate that qualifies as under pressure.
I would really be interested in those "many things" in my filter that are suspicious, I already answered the ones you quoted earlier. Please show them to me, I don't even know where you find them.

Anyway I am out for dinner now. See you later.


Okay... I guess that counts as pressure, although I haven't been even remotely in a dangerous spot until now. But this always happens to me when I'm town at some point, so I'm not too worried yet.


Are you saying you were really pressuring RiseAgain? I just can't see anything but a weak fake pressure in that. Merely voting for someone without any actual pressure doesn't count as pressure. Some other players in this game have thrown away weak votes as well, but at least they tried to create some pressure. You didn't even try - the opposite, you openly said it was only an empty vote beforehand.

Why were you suddenly okay with lynching DP when he started to gain a bandwagon for himself? All I can see is an opportunistic (yet extremely vague) move to potentially get rid of an active player. And when the bandwagon started to crumble, you suddenly dropped him from your suspects without saying a word about it. It feels like you're just trying to get someone lynched, and it doesn't really matter who.


So I am back.
Where did I say I was really pressuring Rise? I clearly said it was to get him to post, since I had questions for him, that I wanted to answer. It is blatantly clear in my filter.

I was not "suddenly" okay with lynching DP, stop misrepresenting facts. Mr.CC asked me who my other possible candidates were. That was after the first episode of DP/Hapa-shitfest but before the entire wagon on him started. I was active during the increasing pressure on DP, being part of it myself, before I had to leave cause of RL matters. How is it opportunistic for me to be one of the persons being there while the pressure added up, when I really thought that he might be red??
The bandwagon started to crumble because DP was doing some really townish posts, thing is I was not in the thread at that time. As soon as I was back und caught up I removed DP from my hitlist as he was much more townie now. I did not want to bloat my post with the DP matter again, when it was not part of the trending discussion in the thread, but I did "say a word" about it....


Show nested quote +
On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.

First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.

-snip-


I for sure care who gets lynched, seriously are you even reading this thread? I clearly stated which persons I want to lynch during varying times already.


He seems pretty paranoid and feels the need to defend himself at every juncture. Frequently he references his past posts to justify his actions and explain them. Take a look at his vote for Xatalos, for example. He basically just calls him bad, defends himself hardcore, and then votes.

The symptoms of a guilty conscience, perhaps?
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
January 07 2013 21:00 GMT
#667
I think I made it abundantly clear why I wanted to lynch Xatalos. Contrary to DP's idea of him not changing his play to suit town's opinion being a town tell, I found it frustrating and ultimately scummy. Perhaps I was overly emotional in my decision to hammer him but I was fairly convinced he was scum.

I voted after Zentor even though I have been suspicious of him because he wasn't the hammer vote like he said he would be. Everyone else seems to find him fitting his town meta so I thought he might actually have thought Xatalos was scum for the reasons I did. Apparently this as not the case because his reaction to the lynch was to downplay the fact that it was a mislynch.

Obviously I was correct in my read of Zentor not caring about who he lynches. I thought that because he wasn't the hammer that it meant he actually had a scum read on him but apparently he just wanted to see a lynch happen.

I'll be on for the next seven hours or so sporadically.
Writer@WriterYamato
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
January 07 2013 21:07 GMT
#668
On January 08 2013 01:55 Hapahauli wrote:
@ DP

Where were you most of yesterday? I understand you live on the other side of the world, but your contributions to the thread after I called you town have been really lacking. Before the CC case, you basically were seemingly helpless and calling a bunch of people null.

Not only that, but you were absent right until the flip, at which point you start saying that Xatalos was "obv-town", yet did absolutely nothing to stop his lynch.

As for your CC case, I'll make my final thoughts on players before the deadline tonight.


I was asleep. I posted as soon as i woke up.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
January 07 2013 21:22 GMT
#669
@ Yamato:

You trusted MrZ because he didn't hammer vote... The fuck?

@ DP

How about the day before - you really haven't been all that active of late
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
January 07 2013 21:24 GMT
#670
I'll be home in an hour or some and post my reads
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
January 07 2013 21:25 GMT
#671
That was one of my points against him. If he was willing to not hammer a lynch and people seemed to think he was town based on meta I didn't see why I should miss the opportunity to lynch one of my best scum reads this game.

Perhaps in hindsight it was an error in judgment . Given the content of his post I should have seen his true intentions instead of assuming he had the right ones just for agreeing with me.
Writer@WriterYamato
MrZentor
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1648 Posts
January 07 2013 21:29 GMT
#672
People keep saying I didn't care about who I was lynching, but I did.

Xatalos was one of my top two scum read.
Falling’s just like flying, except there’s a more permanent destination.
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
January 07 2013 21:34 GMT
#673
So Yamato... You saw the following post and only then trusted MrZ?

On January 07 2013 08:08 MrZentor wrote:
##Unvote:
##Vote: Xatalos


HAMMER HIM HAMMER HIM HAMMER HIM

a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
MrZentor
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1648 Posts
January 07 2013 21:36 GMT
#674
XD
Falling’s just like flying, except there’s a more permanent destination.
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
January 07 2013 21:37 GMT
#675
He posted his tree of lynches deal that seemed to contain some thought about the game that wasn't related to who he could be mislynched.

I do wish he'd bothered to take the time to explain his scum read but the fact of the matter is that I did. You guys know why I wanted Xatalos dead, it's in my filter. If your problem is with Zentor's vote, maybe you should look at Zentor and discern his intentions.
Writer@WriterYamato
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
January 07 2013 21:40 GMT
#676
On January 08 2013 06:22 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Yamato:

You trusted MrZ because he didn't hammer vote... The fuck?

@ DP

How about the day before - you really haven't been all that active of late


The day before I was defending myself against you.

Yeah I haven't been as active as normal, but that is mainly because it is the middle of summer here and I have been going outside and doing other things aside from mafia. I don't think I have been useless, I had trouble getting a read earlier but now I have a pretty solid scum read on CC.

I find it very interesting that he is just flat out refusing to comment on my case other than saying I am right and he is scummy.

Perhaps that is because he knows I am correct.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
January 07 2013 21:45 GMT
#677
It may just be me but I really don;t have too big an issue with the hammer or the xatalos lynch in terms of yamato's scumminess. I really can't see a scum yamato already under pressure bringing more attention to himself with the hammer vote. I can see a townie who believed in his read doing it however.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
January 07 2013 21:53 GMT
#678
Can I get a mod confirmation that the deadline is in ~1 hour?

Just want to be sure, I have a post prepared.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
January 07 2013 21:55 GMT
#679
On January 08 2013 06:40 DarthPunk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2013 06:22 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Yamato:

You trusted MrZ because he didn't hammer vote... The fuck?

@ DP

How about the day before - you really haven't been all that active of late


The day before I was defending myself against you.

Yeah I haven't been as active as normal, but that is mainly because it is the middle of summer here and I have been going outside and doing other things aside from mafia. I don't think I have been useless, I had trouble getting a read earlier but now I have a pretty solid scum read on CC.

I find it very interesting that he is just flat out refusing to comment on my case other than saying I am right and he is scummy.

Perhaps that is because he knows I am correct.


What makes this situation different from your town case on Xatalos?

Didn't care about being scummy. = Town

Didn't alter his play when it was obviously getting him into shit = Town


Continued to pursue his reads with the whole thread calling him out for them = Town


CC's play seems to fit the bolded pretty well.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
January 07 2013 21:58 GMT
#680
Also, why is it that no one talks unless I ask questions? It's getting borderline absurd.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
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