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British Empire Mini Mafia - Page 33

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MrZentor
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1648 Posts
January 07 2013 00:23 GMT
#641
Everybody's panicking because we didn't lynch scum first day.

lolololololol
Falling’s just like flying, except there’s a more permanent destination.
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
January 07 2013 00:54 GMT
#642
On January 07 2013 09:15 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2013 09:06 DarthPunk wrote:
On January 07 2013 08:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
DP didn't you think I was town and stuff?

Also, how did you suddenly think Xatalos was town?


Yeah I did think you were town. But your posts ever since that stream of conciousness post changed my mind.

I thought Xatalos was town because many, many times it was stated in the thread exactly why people thought he was scummy. And what did he do? he continued to do those exact things in the pursuit of other players. I.E. He didn't give a fuck about looking scummy, which is not something I would expect newbie scum to pull.

He also changed his mind a lot even though he knew it would get him in trouble. after CASES were being made about that very thing he continued to do it.

Didn't care about being scummy. = Town

Didn't alter his play when it was obviously getting him into shit = Town

Continued to pursue his reads with the whole thread calling him out for them = Town

So yeah. By the end I think it was fairly obvious that Xatalos was town. I don't really blame people for voting for him. I just wish I had gotten up in time to change things.


What posts are it? How did they change your mind? You were pretty sure I was town. You were also pretty sure Xatalos was scummy, and did nothing to prevent his lynch. In fact, you just told them both to fight. Now you come in here right after he's lynched, conveniently, and 180 your read on both of us?

Seems a bit odd.


I just explained exactly why. and it wasn't sudden. I think you'll find that my read on Xatalos went something like this

Null > Scummy > Null > Scummy > Townie

I explained my thought processes behind xatalos in a previous post they changed when ZB came in proclaiming him to be scum and after reading his Gdocs. And then changed again when I read all the posts from whilst I was asleep.

More/Changing Information = Different and more accurate reads.

I fail to see what is 'odd' about it.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
January 07 2013 00:54 GMT
#643
On January 07 2013 09:23 MrZentor wrote:
Everybody's panicking because we didn't lynch scum first day.

lolololololol


Hardly panicking lol. It does suck to mislynch but as you imply it is quite expected day one.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
jaybrundage
Profile Joined December 2009
United States3921 Posts
January 07 2013 01:48 GMT
#644
On January 07 2013 09:54 DarthPunk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2013 09:23 MrZentor wrote:
Everybody's panicking because we didn't lynch scum first day.

lolololololol


Hardly panicking lol. It does suck to mislynch but as you imply it is quite expected day one.

Im most annoyed that Zentor didn't really care about who he was mislynching. Frustrating imo. We had unlimited amounts of time to get scum. But instead cause hes impatient he wants to push things along and lynch a townie.

I almost wanna policy lynch him cause i hate his meta so much
The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle.
MrZentor
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1648 Posts
January 07 2013 01:54 GMT
#645
Na, I knew Xatalos had a good chance of flipping scum.

If I were lynching somebody like Hapa, then you would be right in being frustrated with me.
Falling’s just like flying, except there’s a more permanent destination.
MrZentor
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1648 Posts
January 07 2013 01:59 GMT
#646
At any rate, I didn't have the hammer vote, so you shouldn't blame me.
Falling’s just like flying, except there’s a more permanent destination.
MrZentor
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1648 Posts
January 07 2013 02:05 GMT
#647
On January 07 2013 10:48 jaybrundage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2013 09:54 DarthPunk wrote:
On January 07 2013 09:23 MrZentor wrote:
Everybody's panicking because we didn't lynch scum first day.

lolololololol


Hardly panicking lol. It does suck to mislynch but as you imply it is quite expected day one.

Im most annoyed that Zentor didn't really care about who he was mislynching. Frustrating imo. We had unlimited amounts of time to get scum. But instead cause hes impatient he wants to push things along and lynch a townie.

I almost wanna policy lynch him cause i hate his meta so much



The day lasts until a majority is reached. If enough time passes without a majority being lynched, I will post in the thread and state a deadline for a no-lynch in order to prevent horrible 3-week-long days where nothing happens.
Falling’s just like flying, except there’s a more permanent destination.
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
January 07 2013 04:04 GMT
#648
Sorry about that Xatalos >.<

On January 07 2013 08:26 Hapahauli wrote:
I'll also say that Shaio's OMGUS looks absolutely terrible right now.

I have a lot of reading to do. Weeeee.


Why do you think it is terrible? As I read it it seems quite legit. He already didn't like Xatalos and Xatalos made some bad points against him.
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
January 07 2013 04:12 GMT
#649
On January 07 2013 09:15 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2013 09:06 DarthPunk wrote:
On January 07 2013 08:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
DP didn't you think I was town and stuff?

Also, how did you suddenly think Xatalos was town?


Yeah I did think you were town. But your posts ever since that stream of conciousness post changed my mind.

I thought Xatalos was town because many, many times it was stated in the thread exactly why people thought he was scummy. And what did he do? he continued to do those exact things in the pursuit of other players. I.E. He didn't give a fuck about looking scummy, which is not something I would expect newbie scum to pull.

He also changed his mind a lot even though he knew it would get him in trouble. after CASES were being made about that very thing he continued to do it.

Didn't care about being scummy. = Town

Didn't alter his play when it was obviously getting him into shit = Town

Continued to pursue his reads with the whole thread calling him out for them = Town

So yeah. By the end I think it was fairly obvious that Xatalos was town. I don't really blame people for voting for him. I just wish I had gotten up in time to change things.


What posts are it? How did they change your mind? You were pretty sure I was town. You were also pretty sure Xatalos was scummy, and did nothing to prevent his lynch. In fact, you just told them both to fight. Now you come in here right after he's lynched, conveniently, and 180 your read on both of us?

Seems a bit odd.


Odd = scummy? Or odd = pointless comment you just decided to throw out there?
Z-BosoN
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil2590 Posts
January 07 2013 04:21 GMT
#650
Aight, I'ma kinda sleepy and have to wake up early tomorrow.
I'll post some of my reads and give my thoughts on the game then.
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
January 07 2013 10:06 GMT
#651
Mr CC

OK so CC was happily a town read of mine for the kind of weak reason that he didn't try to do the obvious thing and sheep hapa like many others did during our showdown. In fact he was kind of reasonable and said that we were probably both townies and we should shut it. All good, town read from there.

Things changed after this Post

This is downright claiming scum in my eyes. This post achieves absolutely nothing for town. It shares no positive information for town.

what does CC do here? Analysis? NO. Scumhunt? NO. Try and figure some shit out? NO.

What CC does here is pick the three weakest players in the game and fucking heap shit on them with shitty one liners that achieve absolutely nothing.

All he does is heap shit on three players that I would consider easy lynchbait based on their play so far. There is ZERO actual thought in the post.

Following this post and hapa's disapproval of it CC;s plays deteriorates starkly.

a series of smarmy one liners are followed by these.

On January 07 2013 05:23 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2013 05:17 Hapahauli wrote:
On January 07 2013 05:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On January 06 2013 17:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I do scumhunt, just because I am not writing a case on anything that moves does not mean I am not doing it...
Boson is pretty much town in my eyes, no reason to share his spreadsheet with his thoughts lined out with us if he were scum. Also he has directly started to scumhunt as soon as he replaced in, gets lots of towniepoints from me.

CC is someone I don't want to lynch today, you may think him scummy for not making a shitton of cases but that is just a difference in playstyle imo. Looking through his filter he is actively trying to get more information out of people by asking questions promoting discussing. What I dislike is parking his vote on MrZ but that is nothing to be honest.



On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.

First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.

I am interested currently in these people:
yamato
Xatalos
MrZ

yamato:
There are many things which would probably be me reiterating stuff that was mentioned (discrepancy in behaviour as hapa said). Not being really present, throwing votes around with little reasoning. But that can be explained by his lack of time due to RL business. could really use more analysis and reasoning from him.

Xatalos:
I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait. That is because he is hesitating a lot, laying out a lot of his thoughts in the thread and therefore opening himself up for harsh critique if he changes his mind and posts it. His lack of any stance is alarming though. While it is somewhat just his playstyle (IIRC) I still dislike it a lot, I mean day 1 has been going for quite a long time now already, while we did not get more information through lynching there is still a lot of content to search through and find something.

MrZ:
He is useless, which is stupidly just his meta with the lightheartedness he has shown. I don't like useless people but cannot condemn him based on this.

Actually I started this post with wanting to lynch into Xata/yamato preferrably yamato but now that I am writing those reads feel just unsatisfying...There is nothing really much that distinguishes one option from the other. I am reluctant to lynch yamato since he seems legitimately busy, also relcutant to lynch Xata for just playing as he does (same goes for MrZ).
Somehow this day 1 has not been really productive >_>

And apparently you missed this Hapa.

Just because he's voting for Xatalos and gave a little reason post for it doesn't mean he has super vindication behind it. He said he was reluctant to lynch Xatalos and then votes him cus OMGUS pretty much.


Okay cool. So that makes him suspicious then in your mind? Because you're apparently not considering lynching him.


Yes he's suspicious. But not moreso than Xatalos or Yamato.

You're taking my stream post really seriously. Stream of consciousness is what you think the instant you read it, not after you give it thought. But I stand by what I said about SP -- he was reluctant to lynch anybody, then he gets a vote by Xatalos and was like WELP, LYNCH THIS DUDE. It's scummy, yeah, but it doesn't change my reads on the other two.

Although I do appreciate your paranoia -- it's making me think you're so townie right now.


Here he is trying to play down the value of his stream of his scummy post. If it wasn't meant to be taken seriously why is he heaping shit on lynchbait for no reason?

Then he stands by what he said in the same sentence. Townies are not wishy-washy when they heap shit on people like that. they mean it. They believe it. They do not downplay it. Look at the difference to CC's response to pressure in contrast to jay for example.

The next part is the Bolded. Buddying hapa who is on his case. CC has already stated his town read on hapa. Why does he feel the need when pressured by Hapa to proclaim hapa's townieness? He is trying to buddy hapa to get him off his case. That's why.

Moving on.

On January 07 2013 05:43 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
@Xatalos

Obviously nobody likes your vote on Yamato. I'm pretty scummy right now - just look at the horrible stream of consciousness post. You've had it in for me all game. You totes want to lynch me right now. Jay does too, and Hapa thinks I'm totes a scumster. Maybe I could die today.

Why won't you vote me?


Another useless post, matyring but joking about it. I don't like it. It's useless, aside from heaping some shit on lynchbait.

When CC is asked for his conclusions and reads he gives the weakest sentence for each player he thinks is scummy.

On January 07 2013 06:07 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2013 06:00 Hapahauli wrote:
On January 07 2013 05:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
On January 07 2013 05:53 Z-BosoN wrote:
On January 07 2013 04:42 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Just going to do a stream of consciousness kind of thing as I read the thread. Spoilered stuff so it doesn't take up ridiculous amounts of space.

+ Show Spoiler +
On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.

First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.

I am interested currently in these people:
yamato
Xatalos
MrZ

yamato:
There are many things which would probably be me reiterating stuff that was mentioned (discrepancy in behaviour as hapa said). Not being really present, throwing votes around with little reasoning. But that can be explained by his lack of time due to RL business. could really use more analysis and reasoning from him.

Xatalos:
I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait. That is because he is hesitating a lot, laying out a lot of his thoughts in the thread and therefore opening himself up for harsh critique if he changes his mind and posts it. His lack of any stance is alarming though. While it is somewhat just his playstyle (IIRC) I still dislike it a lot, I mean day 1 has been going for quite a long time now already, while we did not get more information through lynching there is still a lot of content to search through and find something.

MrZ:
He is useless, which is stupidly just his meta with the lightheartedness he has shown. I don't like useless people but cannot condemn him based on this.

Actually I started this post with wanting to lynch into Xata/yamato preferrably yamato but now that I am writing those reads feel just unsatisfying...There is nothing really much that distinguishes one option from the other. I am reluctant to lynch yamato since he seems legitimately busy, also relcutant to lynch Xata for just playing as he does (same goes for MrZ).
Somehow this day 1 has not been really productive >_>



So what you're saying is, you don't want to lynch anyone?

+ Show Spoiler +
On January 06 2013 17:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I do scumhunt, just because I am not writing a case on anything that moves does not mean I am not doing it...
Boson is pretty much town in my eyes, no reason to share his spreadsheet with his thoughts lined out with us if he were scum. Also he has directly started to scumhunt as soon as he replaced in, gets lots of towniepoints from me.

CC is someone I don't want to lynch today, you may think him scummy for not making a shitton of cases but that is just a difference in playstyle imo. Looking through his filter he is actively trying to get more information out of people by asking questions promoting discussing. What I dislike is parking his vote on MrZ but that is nothing to be honest.



Who the fuck do you want to lynch??

+ Show Spoiler +
On January 06 2013 17:58 yamato77 wrote:
Mr Zentor

He's only given a lot of town reads and acted impatient about lynching people. His filter is full of one liners that provide little reasoning for what he wants to do this game aside from Lynch people. He seems more preoccupied with there being a lynch than who is going to be lynched. He hasn't helped town find who they should lynch, either. Hapa says he's a bored townie but he looks like a scum just waiting for an excuse to hammer a townie lynch.


Ahh something me and Yamato agree on... I hate that Mr. Z ain't doin shit this game.

+ Show Spoiler +
On January 06 2013 18:06 yamato77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2013 18:04 ShiaoPi wrote:
What makes MrZ scummier than Xatalos in your opinion?

Apathy about who is lynched, less scum hunting than Xatalos, less reasoning posted than Xatalos, more trollish nature to his posting. Plus he's advocated the idea that we should limit our discussions in favor of making a decision on a lynch which is a scum favored idea.


No, Yamato wtf. Advocating a shorter time limit is not scum favored -- it promotes activity because we have an artificial deadline to adhere by. 72 hours is plenty. Not a reason to lynch MrZ.
On January 06 2013 18:49 yamato77 wrote:
Is the only reason you want to lynch him is that he's useless? That's the only thing his meta might excuse but I think there are other parts of his play that are scummy.

As I've mentioned before he's advocated the idea that we should be deciding on a lynch by now, which is in opposition to the town-favored idea Hapa put forth that we should allow more time for ourselves so that we don't end up mislynching. Indeed so far that has been good, because we haven't done anything rash or stupid just because we felt we had to decide on someone to kill.


Show nested quote +
On January 04 2013 09:37 MrZentor wrote:
Also, dragging days out will lead to decreased interest in the game by town, increasing inactivity, and generally making things easier for scum.

Days should be 48-72 hours.


He's expressed this sentiment multiple times since this initial post in the form of troll votes and acts of impatience. He's pushing town toward making a bad decision which is something I do not think we should be doing. Only scum would want to advocate this idea.

Show nested quote +
On January 05 2013 07:21 MrZentor wrote:
I will use my hammer vote as soon as I possibly can.

It's unlikely that scum will want to have the final vote on somebody, because it will put them under a lot of scrutiny.


This post here he looks like he's setting himself up for making the hammer vote on a player, and then calling himself town for doing it. And again he's advocating the idea that quick hammer lynches are a good thing when they only benefit scum.

Show nested quote +
On January 06 2013 11:23 MrZentor wrote:
There's too little information to make an accurate lynch first day; we're just wasting time by delaying it.


Here he bemoans day 1 as useless and says we should lynch someone. He doesn't have any good ideas of who to lynch, nor has he helped make day 1 more useful, he just wants to kill someone. Apathy about who is lynched is a scummy trait.

So basically instead of being pro-town and scum hunting, or even offering up a scum read, he's given town reads on people and told us all to lynch someone quickly. He's playing anti town.


Okay this is rediculous. Yamato I feel like you're pressuring the weakest player right now (in terms of actualy content). These are super easy points to make as scum. These aren't good reasons to lynch Mr Z at all.

+ Show Spoiler +
On January 06 2013 18:52 Xatalos wrote:
Welcome, Z-Boson! I'm glad you're being very townish and contributive so far, which means we have one less player out of the lynching table (I didn't like lynching RiseAgain either, but this is a much easier judgement than that).


Show nested quote +
On January 06 2013 15:35 Z-BosoN wrote:
Allright, caught up.
What concerns me about Xatalos, as you can see in the spreadsheet is this post:

On January 05 2013 22:20 Xatalos wrote:
On January 05 2013 15:00 DarthPunk wrote:
On January 05 2013 14:52 Hapahauli wrote:
On January 05 2013 14:48 DarthPunk wrote:
On January 05 2013 14:46 Hapahauli wrote:
On January 05 2013 14:45 DarthPunk wrote:
oh and If I had to lynch now and hapa was dead. hmmm. dunno I would need to read more filters. Actually I would wait to vote until something solid comes up.


Remember when you called Xatalos scummy as shit? Yeah I guess you forgot about that huh?


Yeah. He is. But I am not certain. Holy fuck dude I change my mind and am unsure as a townie with no info on day one. That doesn't sound plausible at all now does it?


Yeah, but how the hell did you change your mind so quickly? You just called Xatalos "scummy as shit" barely an hour ago. Then all of a sudden you're unsure again?


Holy fuck. What do you not understand about this. I am town. I have no additional info. I have to figure shit out. The way I figure shit out is to have ideas and then alter these ideas with changing info or more thought applied to the problem.

Whilst I was flaming with you I was thinking about Xatalos. Now the thing about Xatalos is that he is a pretty bad townie. He likes to sheep and he changes his mind.

Changing your mind is a pretty bad thing to do as scum because people such as yourself for some reason view it as scummy, and as scum you don't need to change your mind. You can defend someone you know will flip town and be fully justified in doing that later when he flips. You can also tunnel people as long as they aren't your buddies, and even then you can do so.

So changing his mind/sheeping was originally scummy but not with some further thought applied.

His list post irks me as all lists post do in general HOWEVER re reading it actually contained decent content and seemed to fit someone trying to figure shit out. Not scummy.

So. He is back to null after reevaluation and I need to figure some other shit out.

Savvy?


Hmm.. Posts like this are the reason why I originally viewed DP as townish. From time to time there are scummy traits in his filter (angriness, contradictions...) but then again, there are many posts where he appears to genuinely try solving the game. For example this earlier post of his:

On January 05 2013 06:16 DarthPunk wrote:
I don;t like either of the 'cases' to be perfectly honest.

Rise is completely null to me. And to be honest you are the one picking a fight with rise. There should be one read due to Rises' aggression and that is null. I thought that you were simply following up on him in order to push the town to be active. However you trying to drum up support for a bandwagon based of something that any player of your calibre should KNOW is a null tell is not 'potentially scummy' it IS scummy. and it has me worried.

Since when do you call things 'potentially scummy' anyway??? sounds really fucking off to be honest.

Yeah it was a WTF post from yamato initially. But his explanation, willingness to be open and transparent, and the fact that his original WTF post turned out to be an exercise in an open thought process give me a town read on yamato at this juncture.

And once again I am wondering how the fuck a town hapa is not reaching the same conclusions as myself and is pushing the wagons of two people who are null at worst.



These well thought-out and contentful posts about several players seem like something Mafia would have a hard time doing. Not impossible, of course, but they just fit town agenda a lot better. Combined with DP's relatively high activity and the speed at which the ghost bandwagon for him gained support, I don't really feel comfortable lynching him today. There's also the point that in my experience, a town vs town flamewar is the most obvious explanation for a fight between active players. With that said, there are some things in his filter that I don't like. DP, if you're there, I want your take on the following matters.

On January 05 2013 07:04 DarthPunk wrote:
What was on top of my agenda was figuring out hapa as you are the scariest player in this game, and if I could get a solid town read on you we could roll these scum. Unfortunately you went retard and or are scum so now I have to deal with a hapa tunnelling me based on
On January 05 2013 06:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Straight-up OMGUS and a sprinkle of gut-feeling. You scum brah.


All the while I am somehow illogical despite having really solid reasoning and you just ignoring that to serve your OMGUS agenda.

Well, that is cool with me HAPA. I don't have to convince you you are scum. I just have to convince the town. And that should be straightforward after this little party we have been having together.


I just can't wrap my head around this post. Here's what it basically says:
1) Hapa is the best player in this game
2) He's a retard and/or scum
3) He's definitely scum

Where's the coherency and logic in all this? You called me out for switching my opinions in the time of 1-2 hours, but you're switching your opinions even inside the same post... It makes me think this could all be fake reasoning, only aimed at pushing an agenda, not finding the truth.

And why is it so bad for Hapa to push weak cases? What it does is create discussion and draw opinions, likely even hints to several players' alignments, and simply there almost CAN'T be any strong cases this early. So it's infinitely better to push a weak case than merely talk policy or semantics. I have a hard time seeing why this makes Hapa scum exactly?

- - -

Alright. I don't have any strong scumreads at the moment, but... There are two players I'm considering for today.

Mr. Cheesecake
- Lots of one-liners that add nothing to the thread
- So far his only suspect is me, based on my uncertainty about DP... and nothing else to add to the discussion?
- A reasonable amount of posts, but basically nothing of value except the (weak) case on me
- Generally being quite forgettable and blending in without drawing attention at all

yamato77
- Voting for Mr. Cheesecake since... why?
- Weird logic and reasoning... scrambling for something to back up his opinions?
- Practically nothing useful in his (short) filter
- Talking almost exclusively about meta/policy/semantics, nothing really meaningful related to this game



His bit on DP reads to me as a biiiig over-justification. What is he trying to accomplish on DP? What is the purpose of beggining by stating why DP looks town, and then refuting it?
Xatalos, I'd like you to better explain this post, so I can better understand where you are coming from.


The reason I have conflicting arguments about DP's alignment is because I have conflicting feelings about him. Some posts he seems townish, some posts scummy. By the way, he still hasn't responded to any of my questions earlier... Even though he has posted a reasonable amount since then. That doesn't make me feel too good about him, but it's not like we're lynching him anyways (there are so many people who are hiding in plain sight compared to him), so I'd rather not focus on him for now.

It's true that MrZentor has been quite passive and non-contributing, but he was somewhat like this in Paranoia Mafia as well (and he was town). And I got a townish feel from the discussion we had earlier in the thread. I don't feel like he's a good lynch.

I said I was ready to vote for Mr. Cheesecake, but somehow I don't feel like it's a sufficiently justifiable lynch. He's had some townish posting lately and my read on him wasn't strong to begin with. But there's someone else I want to discuss...

ShiaoPi

The first thing that doesn't seem right is this post:

Show nested quote +
On January 05 2013 12:14 ShiaoPi wrote:
Hmm looks like RiseAgain has still not responded....
Anyway moving onto the matters more at hand for now.
I don't think that DP or Hapa are scum, it feels much more like townies at each others throats for minor things. While I can see where both are coming from during the exchange I does kind of worry me that DP does not follow up with a vote as Hapa does. Does not seem to fit when he calls him scum more than once earlier.

@Mr.CC
Xatalos is kind of a lynchbait in itself. He is not that easy to read (at least for me), but what I have seen so far from him does not really convince me on his scumminess. From time to time he does these 180-turns but usually it is because he lays his entire thoughtprocess out and therefore every nook and turn of his mind is in the thread. He is nullish right now.

I want to see more from RiseAgain, so

##Vote: RiseAgain
get in here and do something please!


I agree with his points about Hapa/DP and myself, but then comes the weird "pressure" vote. It reminds me so much of an earlier game where one Mafia player made a similar pressure vote without ANY conviction. There's even a double (over?)justification for this vote (I want to see more from him - VOTE - do something please). It feels like just a ploy to appear scumhunting with pressure, but that pressure is so weak and apologetic that it doesn't look like he even tried to accomplish anything. It's just all too indifferent about gaining any new information and basically voting for the sake of having voted.

Show nested quote +
On January 05 2013 12:26 ShiaoPi wrote:
Right now I am torn between the two of jaybrundage and yamato77.

More tending towards yamato77 for his meltdown in logic as jaybrundage has done nothing, which is bad but not necessarily scum


Show nested quote +
On January 05 2013 12:26 ShiaoPi wrote:
EBWOP: oh and someone I would be more reluctant to lynch but could agree to is DP


Just listing possible lynch candidates without much (or any in DP's case) reasoning, and putting his foot pre-emptively in a lot of bandwagons. Not advancing the thread, not scumhunting, merely agreeing to lynch several players.


Show nested quote +
On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.

First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.

I am interested currently in these people:
yamato
Xatalos
MrZ

yamato:
There are many things which would probably be me reiterating stuff that was mentioned (discrepancy in behaviour as hapa said). Not being really present, throwing votes around with little reasoning. But that can be explained by his lack of time due to RL business. could really use more analysis and reasoning from him.

Xatalos:
I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait. That is because he is hesitating a lot, laying out a lot of his thoughts in the thread and therefore opening himself up for harsh critique if he changes his mind and posts it. His lack of any stance is alarming though. While it is somewhat just his playstyle (IIRC) I still dislike it a lot, I mean day 1 has been going for quite a long time now already, while we did not get more information through lynching there is still a lot of content to search through and find something.

MrZ:
He is useless, which is stupidly just his meta with the lightheartedness he has shown. I don't like useless people but cannot condemn him based on this.

Actually I started this post with wanting to lynch into Xata/yamato preferrably yamato but now that I am writing those reads feel just unsatisfying...There is nothing really much that distinguishes one option from the other. I am reluctant to lynch yamato since he seems legitimately busy, also relcutant to lynch Xata for just playing as he does (same goes for MrZ).
Somehow this day 1 has not been really productive >_>


All of his stances are neutral and weak. Although it's a bit hypocritical since I've been hesitant as well, but when he was town in our earlier game together, he had VERY strong opinions and even hard defended a scum until he actually flipped red. When he was Mafia, he was very quiet and vague. This just feels like much more fitting his scum meta, although it's not a huge pool of evidence.

With this, I'm actually much more confident in ShiaoPi being scum than Mr. Cheesecake. It's also late in the day, so I guess it's about time to finally cast a vote.

##Vote ShiaoPi



OMG TAKE A STANCE ON SOMETHING INSTEAD OF DISCREDITING YOUR OWN READ

+ Show Spoiler +
On January 06 2013 19:36 Xatalos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.

call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.

Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch


When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then).


Why are you actively seeking to stop pressuring me?? Apparently anybody will do for this lynch despite your null reads on everybody.

+ Show Spoiler +
On January 06 2013 21:27 ShiaoPi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2013 20:05 Xatalos wrote:
On January 06 2013 19:41 ShiaoPi wrote:
On January 06 2013 19:36 Xatalos wrote:
On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.

call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.

Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch


When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then).



Several people have mentioned you as a possible lynch candidate that qualifies as under pressure.
I would really be interested in those "many things" in my filter that are suspicious, I already answered the ones you quoted earlier. Please show them to me, I don't even know where you find them.

Anyway I am out for dinner now. See you later.


Okay... I guess that counts as pressure, although I haven't been even remotely in a dangerous spot until now. But this always happens to me when I'm town at some point, so I'm not too worried yet.


Are you saying you were really pressuring RiseAgain? I just can't see anything but a weak fake pressure in that. Merely voting for someone without any actual pressure doesn't count as pressure. Some other players in this game have thrown away weak votes as well, but at least they tried to create some pressure. You didn't even try - the opposite, you openly said it was only an empty vote beforehand.

Why were you suddenly okay with lynching DP when he started to gain a bandwagon for himself? All I can see is an opportunistic (yet extremely vague) move to potentially get rid of an active player. And when the bandwagon started to crumble, you suddenly dropped him from your suspects without saying a word about it. It feels like you're just trying to get someone lynched, and it doesn't really matter who.


So I am back.
Where did I say I was really pressuring Rise? I clearly said it was to get him to post, since I had questions for him, that I wanted to answer. It is blatantly clear in my filter.

I was not "suddenly" okay with lynching DP, stop misrepresenting facts. Mr.CC asked me who my other possible candidates were. That was after the first episode of DP/Hapa-shitfest but before the entire wagon on him started. I was active during the increasing pressure on DP, being part of it myself, before I had to leave cause of RL matters. How is it opportunistic for me to be one of the persons being there while the pressure added up, when I really thought that he might be red??
The bandwagon started to crumble because DP was doing some really townish posts, thing is I was not in the thread at that time. As soon as I was back und caught up I removed DP from my hitlist as he was much more townie now. I did not want to bloat my post with the DP matter again, when it was not part of the trending discussion in the thread, but I did "say a word" about it....

Show nested quote +
On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.

First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.

-snip-


I for sure care who gets lynched, seriously are you even reading this thread? I clearly stated which persons I want to lynch during varying times already.


I'm confused Batman. Pressure votes get ppl to post and stuff -- why are you saying you're not pressuring him? This post is basically just a summary of events also, useless kk.


What are your conclusions? You just read in a biased way, but you don't draw any conclusions whatsoever. There's nothing anyone can defend or support to. This is an useless effort.


Well you asked me to give my thoughts on the last few pages. And there you go. I don't draw any conclusions because it's just what I was thinking. So yes, it is pretty useless, but it pushes whatever I was thinking at the time out there.


Yes, but what are your conclusions? I'm rather interested in hearing them.


Conclusions?

I hate Yamato's reasoning for voting Mr. Z. Could be scum trying to push the easiest player to lynch. (Mr. Z is an easy target, he even says it himself).

SP OMGUS votes Xatalos even though he "isn't sure" about lynching anybody. I'm actually not sure if it's a town reaction or scum reaction. Maybe you can provide some insight on this.

Xatalos still scummy as hell, not committing on reads, and discrediting his own when he has them.


This is after he is ASKED to provide conclusions. Weak as shit. Just some generic shit on all of the weakest players. And that is the problem also. What do scum do at their most basic level?

They find some bad players. Heap some shit on them. Say there is scum in that group.

That is exactly what CC has done this game.

Finally. After I show up and call out CC he almost immediately sets up to OMGUS me. His town read even during the hapa mess.

On January 07 2013 08:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
DP didn't you think I was town and stuff?

Also, how did you suddenly think Xatalos was town?


On January 07 2013 09:15 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:

What posts are it? How did they change your mind? You were pretty sure I was town. You were also pretty sure Xatalos was scummy, and did nothing to prevent his lynch. In fact, you just told them both to fight. Now you come in here right after he's lynched, conveniently, and 180 your read on both of us?

Seems a bit odd.




Here is the kicker. What the fuck is he actually saying with "Seems a bit odd?" is he calling me scummy as soon as I cease my town read on him? It is just the kind of wishy-washy statement that scummers love to make. And it is incredibly obvious that his attitude towards me changes when my read on him changes.

Add to that Minimal scumhunting lot's of one liners that do not actually say anything and a facade of activity without content and I feel pretty solid in a CC lynch tomorrow.

"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
ShiaoPi
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
January 07 2013 15:00 GMT
#652
Just saw the flip. Well thats a bugger. Will be sharing some thoughts tomorrow since I am dead tired. Doubt that scum is gonna shoot me anyway. The way the lynch happened deserves some closer examination imo but I am half asleep already. See you in the morning.
LiquidDota Staff@TW_ShiaoPi
TL+ Member
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
January 07 2013 15:55 GMT
#653
Sorry for my weak performance this game... I guess this was to be expected. But you can do it town, GL HF!
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
January 07 2013 16:55 GMT
#654
@ DP

Where were you most of yesterday? I understand you live on the other side of the world, but your contributions to the thread after I called you town have been really lacking. Before the CC case, you basically were seemingly helpless and calling a bunch of people null.

Not only that, but you were absent right until the flip, at which point you start saying that Xatalos was "obv-town", yet did absolutely nothing to stop his lynch.

As for your CC case, I'll make my final thoughts on players before the deadline tonight.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
January 07 2013 17:07 GMT
#655
@ Jay

You don't mention Xatalos much at all in your filter. Though before the lynch, you make two notable comments on Xatalos:
On January 06 2013 20:01 jaybrundage wrote:
Good to see you make a case Xatltos. Ill reread ShaioPi's filter when i get a chance.

Also Yamato i also think Zentor could be scummy. Alot of people have a town read on him it could jsut be his meta but hes done some pretty scummy things

On January 07 2013 05:49 jaybrundage wrote:
Ok Time to Consolidate our votes guys. I for one would still be happy killing CC. Glad Hapa's opinion is changing TBH it seems like we have alot of people sheeping you hapa whether you like it or not. So use your sheep for good.

I for one would not be interested in lynching yamato he seems like a lynch bait i am after all an expert on these matters.

Zentor has given me second thoughts by posting a post that wasnt completely shitty :D Good job Zentor.

Both of them are easy lynch candidates for mafia as they do scummy things by them selves and you don't have to actually put your self in a comprising situation.

ATM I am unsure of Xatalos I'll have to give his Filter another gander.

@ZBoson I have written two cases on CC so far The main points are lack of cases but also lack of conviction and his ability to not really have a stance on anyone. Hes called me scummy like 3 times but as of yet he hasn't given me a reason of why i am or am not scummy. Its obvious in his reads that atm he has no plans to lynch me why cause then he would have to put something on the line. Which as scum he is hesitant to do.


In the first comment, you acknowledge ShaioPi's suspicion on Xatalos. In the second comment (two hours before the lynch), you promise to look into him. However, two hours of suspicion against Xatalos pass (including cases dropped by both CC and Z-Boson). You don't post in favor of Xatalos until post-lynch:
On January 07 2013 08:23 jaybrundage wrote:
That was so badddddddddddddddddd. I was gonna go reread Xaltos posting cause the more i looked at him the more i could see townie. Like we lynched him when he wasnt even here. I only see a scum driven wagon when I look at the votes.

Hapa questions do you think that both of the scum could of been on that wagon.

Do you think it was scummy as fuck for what Zentor and Yamato did. Hammaring with out talking to the town first is terrible we should all b agreeing on shit. Not do rash dumb actons


You have many harsh words to say about the lynch (and apparently you were seeing townie things in his filter), and not once did you even attempt to step in and stop things.

Not only this, but I can't make coherent sense of your suspicions. You were expressing a lot of desire to lynch Mr.CC post-flip, and in this post, you think MrZ and Yamato are the ones that are "scummy as fuck."



Why did you not step in to stop the Xatalos lynch? Apparently you were reading his filter at the time suspicion against him was taking off, were seeing townie things in said filter, and simply did not post about it.

Explain your suspicions right now. They aren't coherent.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
January 07 2013 19:02 GMT
#656
Yaaaaaaay no one is active in the thread. Fun Fun Fun Fun.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
January 07 2013 19:22 GMT
#657
Oh hey there Hapa. I've got a few mins to chat, what's up?

But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
January 07 2013 19:31 GMT
#658
In school right now - interested to hear a reply to dp's case, as well as scumreads
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
January 07 2013 19:52 GMT
#659
@ Yamato

1) It's post-weekend and you've still been very useless. Is work still a problem?

2) You've been emphasizing my ideas of patience all game. Hell you've been attacking MrZentor repeatedly for wanting someone dead:
On January 06 2013 17:58 yamato77 wrote:
Mr Zentor

He's only given a lot of town reads and acted impatient about lynching people. His filter is full of one liners that provide little reasoning for what he wants to do this game aside from Lynch people. He seems more preoccupied with there being a lynch than who is going to be lynched. He hasn't helped town find who they should lynch, either. Hapa says he's a bored townie but he looks like a scum just waiting for an excuse to hammer a townie lynch.


Yet for some reason, you follow MrZ off a cliff to lynch Xatalos in the most impatient manner possible. Why were you so willing to follow the vote of one of your top scumreads this game? Also, what happened to all that talk about being patient and whatnot? You left the thread for an hour or so, then when you returned, you immediately hammered without any discussion.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Mr. Cheesecake
Profile Joined October 2012
United States3756 Posts
January 07 2013 19:59 GMT
#660
On January 08 2013 04:31 Hapahauli wrote:
In school right now - interested to hear a reply to dp's case, as well as scumreads


In terms of DP's case.. It's alright. He's wrong, but I'm pretty scummy and much of the argument does hold water. However, I'm fairly disinterested with the pressure on me right now. I don't think I'll be lynched tomorrow, and I won't sit here and waste time deflecting every point brought against me. We can all settle on the fact that I'm super scummy right now, and that's fine with me.

Yamato concerns me right now.

There was his voting behavior early game and his Mr. Z case, but I won't restate all of it. I want to hear his reasoning behind his hammer vote.

Here is his second to last post:
On January 07 2013 06:16 yamato77 wrote:
I'll be back later.

Don't lynch someone until I get back.


"Alright guys, I care about who is lynch, so don't lynch nobody until I get back and we can make a rational decision"

And then he comes back to hours later right at the time Xatalos has 4 votes.

On January 07 2013 08:11 yamato77 wrote:
It seems like other people are seeing what I saw in Xatalos with his case in Shiao and vote on CC.

The dude doesn't really care where he votes, he gives weak justifications and has continually changed his reads over the course of the game on a moment's notice to fit his agenda.

It's enough for me to see him hang.

##Vote: Xatalos


What part of this mirrors his previous post? I don't understand his rational in hammering so quickly. Supposedly, he wants to take things slow, so people don't make the wrong decision. But he doesn't even consult the thread before he comes back in and hammers. Yes, he had a scumread on Xatalos. Cool. But -- what was the purpose in hammering so quickly?

Yamato, you've been a fairly inactive force in this thread. I want you to talk -- now.

Trying to wrap my head around Jay / SP right now. Will get back in a while.
But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic.
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