EPTI'll redirect my vote with appropriate justification depending on how this goes.
Witchcraft Mini Mafia - Page 76
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Eywa-
Canada4876 Posts
I'll redirect my vote with appropriate justification depending on how this goes. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
So even if we take your comment as "I thought I had my vote on him the whole day" as true, these are your conversations with DYH in "the whole day": On December 18 2012 07:26 MrZentor wrote: DYH, your case is bad. Scum would have tried to shoot Hapa before DP. And your whole case is based on that not being true. On December 18 2012 07:37 MrZentor wrote: If Hapa was town, then Mafia wouldn't have any silver bullets left. It's pretty simple, and the reasoning behind it is solid. If he were truly a blue, then he would have nothing to fear from the witch hunter. Anyways, originally, my plan was going to reveal if Hapa were scum or not; I had a null read on him. And then Hapa started acting really scummy. Like REALLY scummy. So no, my read on Hapa isn't all based on that assumption being true. In fact, it isn't based on that assumption at all, as my plan didn't succeed, and we didn't gain any information from it. On December 18 2012 07:41 MrZentor wrote: The probability of scum having a bullet and Hapa being blue was minuscule. And I'm impatient. On December 18 2012 07:47 MrZentor wrote: No, there are a lot of things Hapa could be. The reason I was focused on elected scum is that that was a really easy way to catch him and prove he was scum. And he had a good chance of being elected, regardless of his alignment, so there would be a decent chance of him being elected scum. Nowhere in this conversation do you even imply suspicion on DYH. This is true of your D1 play as well. In fact, it looks like you're just defending yourself against someone you think is town. Nowhere here do you even question his motives. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
On December 19 2012 06:00 Hapahauli wrote: You said you had your vote on DYH all day, which would imply that you were suspicious of him. But... you never call him scummy, never suspect him, never question him... ever in your filter. So even if we take your comment as "I thought I had my vote on him the whole day" as true, these are your conversations with DYH in "the whole day": Nowhere in this conversation do you even imply suspicion on DYH. This is true of your D1 play as well. In fact, it looks like you're just defending yourself against someone you think is town. Nowhere here do you even question his motives. On the first day, I had a null read on him, so of course I wasn't going to imply suspicion. On the second day, I thought I had voted for DYH after he voted for me, just to show that I was tired of his ridiculous cases. I probably wrote the post and then forgot to post it. :/ | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 19 2012 06:07 MrZentor wrote: On the first day, I had a null read on him, so of course I wasn't going to imply suspicion. On the second day, I thought I had voted for DYH after he voted for me, just to show that I was tired of his ridiculous cases. I probably wrote the post and then forgot to post it. :/ So where in that conversation would you have voted for DYH? Also, you realize this looks terrible right? | ||
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
And I think you're over reacting to this situation. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 19 2012 06:10 MrZentor wrote: I would have voted somewhere between the time he voted for me and my first post after he voted for me. And I think you're over reacting to this situation. Overreacting? I found out that one of my previous town reads pulled a suspicion out of thin air and I can't make sense of how you would do it as town. The thing is, he voted you before the entire conversation above took place. Not once in your interaction do you call him scummy. Not once do you even question his motives. You just defend yourself. Rather earnestly at that. You claimed that you voted him because you were "tired of his ridiculous cases." What in the above conversation shows you are frustrated? Hell I cannot wrap my head around the fact that you supposedly forgot to vote him, but then you forgot to call him scum... ever? | ||
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
MrZentor I had a null to town read on MrZ at the end of day1. Despite his claim that no scum would play like he was playing, or that only a truly amazing scum could pull off his day1 play as scum, + Show Spoiler + On December 17 2012 03:12 MrZentor wrote: I think only a noob would think saying something like "IM OBV TOWN GUYS THAT IS PROVEN BEYOND DOUBT NOW" is scummy. Remember, scum want to fit into the crowd; they want to imitate a regular townie's behavior, because in doing that, they are safest from getting killed. Doing things like saying "IM OBV TOWN" doesn't fit into this agenda. + Show Spoiler + And before anybody says that that's wifom, because scum could easily purposely act strange and then use this argument to try to prove that their town, and that therefore it's meaningless, let me explain something to you. Yes, in theory, mafia could easily also could use this argument to try to prove that their town, but, in practice, mafia are too afraid of risks to try to use this argument to prove that they are town. Only an exceptionally daring or experienced scum player (like Ace) would be both capable and have the courage to do it. And, because I am neither, I am town. Also, I don't want to kill a lurker anymore. On December 15 2012 07:08 MrZentor wrote: ##Vote MrZentor Because I can. I can't really go after him for how he pushed mord. I agreed with his read on JX and his points on Mord were convincing. It is worth noting that he only stopped 1 lynch in order to push a different mislynch. A good way to gain cred as scum and something I think fits with how MrZ plays, but not really alignment indicative. What really tips the scales for me, and I'm amazed doesn't do the same for the rest of you is his n1 call to reveal voting on hapa. Maybe you all didn't think through the iterations of how that could play out like I did and see that that play was extremely scummy. Let me remind you of the only explanation MrZ provides when I pressured him on this earlier, + Show Spoiler + On December 18 2012 07:41 MrZentor wrote: The probability of scum having a bullet and Hapa being blue was minuscule. And I'm impatient. 1. MrZ is right and scum HAD to have shot hapa before DP - Scum hapa is caught, but would have been caught just as surely N2. 2. MrZ is wrong and scum may not have had to shoot hapa before DP:
b. hapa is vanilla town - revealing votes lets scum know that in all likelihood hapa is not going to be protected and is the clear choice for the regular scum hit. It is the timing of this that makes it so scummy. If MrZ was town he would have waited until N2 to bring this out. The only purpose bringing it out before N1 has even ended, and then pressuring the rest of the town to reveal their votes quickly, is to cover the bases on #2 above. If MrZ had gotten his way, hapa's death would have been practically ensured. Instead, not enough people went along with MrZ's plan, and we got a thrawn death. Enter hapa's comments + Show Spoiler + 1. On December 18 2012 10:43 Hapahauli wrote: Like this for example. I've played a bunch of games, coached a bunch of newbie games, and I have yet to see a mafia player "rolefishing." This is something that mafia are largely scared of doing as it draws attention to themselves. I can't see MrZ rolefishing this blatantly. 2. On December 18 2012 12:12 Hapahauli wrote: And even if he is "rolefishing," DYH's case against MrZentor doesn't adequately address why MrZ's idea scummy rather than stupid. 1. The hallmark of MrZ's play so far has been drawing attention to himself and then using it as a "I can't be mafia because" statement. 2. What about MrZ's play so far strikes you as stupid? He clearly had his defense of his early play lined up before even his first post, his case on mord was convincing and gained him town cred. MrZ is thinking things through. Next up is this response, which doesn't fit with his earlier logic OR his actions: On December 18 2012 07:37 MrZentor wrote: If Hapa was town, then Mafia wouldn't have any silver bullets left. It's pretty simple, and the reasoning behind it is solid. 1. If he were truly a blue, then he would have nothing to fear from the witch hunter. 2. Anyways, originally, my plan was going to reveal if Hapa were scum or not; I had a null read on him. And then Hapa started acting really scummy. Like REALLY scummy. So no, my read on Hapa isn't all based on that assumption being true. In fact, it isn't based on that assumption at all, as my plan didn't succeed, and we didn't gain any information from it. 1. Why would he have nothing to fear from the witch hunter if he was a blue? By MrZ's own reasoning a blue Hapa would have to already be dead in order for the witch hunter to no longer be a threat. 2. This statement completely contradicts with his actions. If this was truly his intention and he truly had a null read, he would have waited until N2, period. It isn't like the safe time for claims hasn't been discussed already. What happened here is when I put pressure on MrZ, forcing him to admit that he could be wrong and that his actions only helps scum. He starts tripping up trying to back himself off of hard pushing hapa. Speaking of which... On December 18 2012 09:41 MrZentor wrote: The main part of my speculation was that if Hapa is town, mafia has used both of their bullets. And I am beginning to suspect that Hapa isn't scum, but only because of his recent rage. I'm still wondering why you contradict yourself so much. This is the only post where he mentions any reasoning for his sudden turn around from 'hapa has to be scum, and I can prove it!', to hapa is obv town and I'm going to work with him on lynching DYH. In MrZ's words, the chances that his assumption is wrong is miniscule, and it isn't like his original plan's viability has disappeared, we could reveal our day1 votes at the start of N2 and it would prove his point almost as well as N1. MrZ is scum | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
DYH, read my stuff on page 75-76 on MrZ. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
##Unvote ##Vote MrZentor | ||
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DoYouHas
United States1140 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 19 2012 06:29 DoYouHas wrote: I had been trying to keep MrZ's voting of me largely out of my case to try and make it more objective. But what you are saying makes sense. Well... MrZ never voted you. | ||
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Eywa-
Canada4876 Posts
On December 19 2012 06:29 DoYouHas wrote: I had been trying to keep MrZ's voting of me largely out of my case to try and make it more objective. But what you are saying makes sense. I'm just going to go ahead and say this, assume that all you said is true and that MrZ were trying to expose hapa, after he failed to expose him, the witchdoctor would have taken the shot anyway... Which means Hapa either didn't get blued or is also scum. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
I really think Mr z is town. anti town, yes, but not in a scummy way. also hapa I remembered you saying you think you were shot by a silver bullet. Are you sure? and have the witches claimed yet? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 19 2012 06:32 kushm4sta wrote: help me out. who are the current possible bandwagons? I really think Mr z is town. anti town, yes, but not in a scummy way. also hapa I remembered you saying you think you were shot by a silver bullet. Are you sure? and have the witches claimed yet? 1) I dont' know if I was shot. I wasn't notified anyway. 2) No claims. Claims after the lynch deadline ends (72 hour period lapses) | ||
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
Good. Good. | ||
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Eywa-
Canada4876 Posts
On December 19 2012 06:32 kushm4sta wrote: help me out. who are the current possible bandwagons? I really think Mr z is town. anti town, yes, but not in a scummy way. also hapa I remembered you saying you think you were shot by a silver bullet. Are you sure? and have the witches claimed yet? I'm going for Mr.CC, I don't think anyone should stray from voting Mr.CC either. In my mind, everything else being brought up are side cases which should be paid attention to, but not necessarily acted on just yet. | ||
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Eywa-
Canada4876 Posts
On December 19 2012 06:33 MrZentor wrote: And now everybody thinks I'm scum. Good. Good. Put your vote on Mr.Cheesecake please. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
DYH + MrZ scumteam. I can prove it. | ||
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