EPTLike number of mafia players, presence of 3rd party and model used for this setup ?
I'll keep this setup related discussion for the pre-game, unless I roll mafia ofc
/in
Hero Mini Mafia
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
Like number of mafia players, presence of 3rd party and model used for this setup ? I'll keep this setup related discussion for the pre-game, unless I roll mafia ofc /in | ||
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Djodref
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I'm doomed... | ||
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On December 10 2012 09:22 debears wrote: ##Vote thrawn I reject your reality and substitute my own Hello everybody ! @thrawn Did you seriously not read that millers are not self aware ? @debears Are you seriously willing to enforce a "Lynch all Liars" policy ? My first reaction to thrawn post was "yeah, obvious scum" then I thought that he might not have been serious at all. A one liner for a miller claim doesn't look real, regardless of his alignment. The way he answered "nvm, then" shows that he is carefree about it. Debears, you are jumpy as both alignments, but I wouldn't expect your town self to post a video instead of engaging the discussion to get this game rolling. FoS debears | ||
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Djodref
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On December 10 2012 09:43 thrawn2112 wrote: I dont see what the point of this question is, if I'm town then I obviously can't give a real answer. Not true, if it was a probe post and you did it as town, then you can give a real answer like "I totally read that miller are not self-aware, but I wanted to use this fakeclaim as a probe to see how people would react to it" My problem is that I'm faced with the following choice right now
So, I'll go with the first choice for the moment and ask you how you were expecting people to react to this fakeclaim. All in all, what was your motivation for this post ? | ||
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Djodref
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On December 10 2012 09:45 debears wrote: Haha <3 And Djo, how serious do you think that vote was? And why exactly could you not see townie me posting a video? Did you read paranoia? I don't know how serious this vote was and this is what I want you to answer me, not throwing questions against questions. Given your behavior (video + this post), I would say not serious. The problem is not posting a video, my problem is that you are not engaging the discussion with thrawn after you vote him. | ||
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On December 10 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote: any answer I could possibly give would just betray the actual purpose behind that post, making whatever I hoped to accomplish with that post no longer possible Yeah, I know, but I don't think you could accomplish so much with that honestly. You know that Clarity read the OP and I'll let you tell us how you think debears reacted to it. I think you should give up any hope you had because your bluff has been called out. By the way, I wouldn't mind you to admit that you did it as a mafia player, if that's the case | ||
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On December 10 2012 10:01 debears wrote: Ikr Anyways Djo the video was a response to the question, but a fun way of doing it Have you not seen the Matrix? Did you not watch the video? Yes, I guess you were saying that your vote was not real with the video. What was your motivation with your first vote on thrawn ? What is your real take on thrawn fakeclaim ? | ||
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Djodref
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On December 10 2012 10:29 thrawn2112 wrote: All the people in the past, present, and future who ask why I lied about being miller..... can go and read this post. If they don't like it then they can just continue reading it because that's all I've got to say about it. I don't like it. I don't understand why you are being so stubborn... Let's see if it's really all you have to say about it. ##Vote thrawn | ||
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On December 10 2012 10:37 jaybrundage wrote: Dude... Its not whether we believe you. Your lying simple. Not a single persons believes your claim its about why are you lying. For no damn reason. And what purpose would town have to do that. It only makes sense from a mafia perspective I disagree with you, I see more town motivation than mafia motivation for fakeclaiming like that. But I would really like thrawn to explain his motivation by himself at first. | ||
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Djodref
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On December 10 2012 10:44 debears wrote: To get the voting rally started of course. Break the ice son And it's strange. It would make no sense from a town perspective. His PM can't tell him he's a miller, because they aren't self aware. So from town - he was joking and he knew millers weren't self aware. Just did it for shits and giggles scum - he claimed miller without checking first. I just don't see a scum being that reckless, but i'm sure if he's town he'll put in a productive day 1. Or, he could've knew someone would interpret him as a joking townie if he's scum. and the wifomwifomwfiom I'm the first to vote in the voting thread So you see thrawn as a joking town or a reckless scum (less likely) or scum using WIFOM. Okay... I personally can see a motivation for a town player to fakeclaim like this (serious motivation) that would make sense but I'm waiting for him to explain it first so I can check it matches my expectation or not. At the exception of thrawn, do you have any comment to make on other players in this early game ? | ||
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On December 10 2012 10:35 Djodref wrote: I don't like it. I don't understand why you are being so stubborn... Let's see if it's really all you have to say about it. ##Vote thrawn @ jay y u no read the thread ? | ||
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So, between Adam and Jay, which one of them should deserve your vote right now ? Because it looks like to me that the main reason for you to vote Adam is that he asked for your vote and voted against you. I think Clarity made good points against Jay and I'm also leaning town on thrawn right now. I think I know the reason why he doesn't want to explain himself right now and I don't think that my pressure vote is going to work out. @ jay It looks like you are leaning scum on thrawn. Would you care to convince us that he is indeed scum and that we should vote him ? As you can see, the risk to start an early bandwagon on him is not so big. ##Vote jay | ||
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On December 10 2012 14:52 debears wrote: I like Clarity's points on jay, and clarity seems to satisfactorily have jay covered. I'm gonna work on Adam/whoever I feel like So, I guess you are satisfied with your vote on Adam right now. According to me, Adam has been pretty clear on his stance on thrawn and I disagree with you about him: I don't see anything to blame him for right now. I'll let you do what you feel like but I'll voice my concerns if you seem mistaken. For example, right now, I feel like you should better vote for jay instead of Adam. | ||
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On December 10 2012 14:53 thrawn2112 wrote: alright well I'm tired of the miller claim discussion so here's how it went down from my perspective. At first it was mainly a joke, but it was also intended to jump start discussion. + Show Spoiler + wow big surprise there right? @ thrawn In fact, this is exactly the explanation I was waiting for you. I remembered this post from our previous Looney game when you were going to be mislynched at MYLO. On October 20 2012 09:13 thrawn2112 wrote: Cuz I'm not scum u silly. Don't worry I love being mislynched. It's the part of the game where in the past ive figured out who is scum. So, did you manage to get any clue of who could be scum after analysing the way they treated your fakeclaim ? | ||
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On December 10 2012 12:47 wherebugsgo wrote: alrighty. I've concluded from the current events that there's an 80% preliminary chance that Palmar is scum. Therefore I'm voting him, at least until he comes back and proves me otherwise. ##unvote ##vote Palmar @ WBG You have to explain us how you came with this "80% preliminary chance" for a scum Palmar. He has only one post in his filter ("/in") and we have yet to see him come in the thread rather than to see him "come back". | ||
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If I take your word for jay and assume that you are not scum yourself, I'd say that I don't have huge concerns about anyone at the beginning of this game. Why did you single out Palmar among all the people who didn't participate yet ? What about Bluelight, Z-Bo, Munk-E, Vivax and Tunkeg ? All of them scum by elimination ? | ||
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On December 10 2012 16:59 wherebugsgo wrote: 1) How many of them are there? 2) How many scum are probably in this game? 3) What did I say was my certainty on Palmar being scum? Don't force me to treat you like you're dumb. 1) There are 6 people who didn't participate yet 2) I would say four but I have no idea which setup Hiro chose 3) "there's an 80% preliminary chance that Palmar is scum" So, why did you single out Palmar ? I don't care if you treat me like dumb but what you said (please refer to point 3) seems to me to be some bullshit that you didn't really think through. I'm just being as dumb as you  | ||
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On December 10 2012 17:14 wherebugsgo wrote: I counted 5, so it should be a 66% chance, but w/e. Regardless, there's a much higher chance IMO of finding scum for day 1 in those who haven't joined yet than looking at the currently active players. I chose Palmar because he was one of those 5, because I want to see what he says, and because on balance concerns, if the host decided to balance teams, he's most likely to be the vet on the scumteam. All of these things, again, are preliminary so they mean nothing until Palmar actually shows up. (or, for that matter, all of the other guys). I have a heuristic for determining who out of that group is most likely to be scum, but I'll wait for them to appear before doing anything. No point till then anyway. @ WBG That's a reasonable explanation to single out Palmar. So, how many "vets" do we have this game ? Palmar and you make two. What about Bluelightz and Marv ? Do you consider them as vets too ? I disagree with you regarding jay. Regardless of his past games, his stance on thrawn is typical of scumplay. | ||
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On December 10 2012 11:43 debears wrote: @Djo The person that I don't like so far is adam. I would arguably say he has been just as, if not more, aggressive with you on thrawn. Yet, he hasn't voted him. He implied heavily that thrawn was scum, yet doesn't think he's scummy when asked directly. Furthermore, he keeps hard questioning thrawn on a response that thrawn basically said he wouldn't say (even though it seems to me that he was joking) even though he said he doesn't think thrawn is scum. His reaction is feeling very forced On December 10 2012 13:59 debears wrote: *snip* You even use meta and say it's different from his town play. Yeah, you're full of it @ debears Could you explain me how Adam implied heavily that thrawn was scum ? Could you show me a post where you think his reaction was forced ? I don't think that posting only post from a previous post-game to show an apparent contradiction is really using meta. Adam just pointed out a contradiction. | ||
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Djodref
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We have now 4 people that have not contributed at all since the beginning of this game (Munk-E, Z-Boson, Vivax and Tunkeg). Palmar has made clear when he would be able to start to participate which is at least better than these 4 others. I don't know all the players in this game, and I don't why/if the host would have chosen Palmar to be in the scumteam for balance reason. So I am now under the impression that you are using Palmar as an excuse to not comment on the other players in this game. What about Bluelightz ? Are you familiar with him ? Any comment you would do on his entrance in the thread ? | ||
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Could you confirm me that it's only your second game on these forums ? You get yourself lynched D1 or D2 for being inactive in a newbie lately, am I right ? Weird scum or weird town for WBG ? By the way, the way he phrased it didn't exactly mean he was 80% sure he was mafia. It was a preliminary thing, so I understood it as valuable only for this early game. @ everyone What's WBG reputation as a vet ? Would the scum in the mafiaQT shit their pants if he was town ? Anyone else than marv in this game that would be considered as super strong town ? | ||
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On December 11 2012 01:12 marvellosity wrote: bugs & Palmar both very strong town, VE not too shabby either. Is there a reason you're asking? Yeah, I was wondering if the scumteam would let scum Munk-E post what he did post against WBG, assuming he is town, or even if he is scum himself. Newbies don't go generally after the vets like this, especially if they are scum, because they know they should be careful with such guy and such guy from some other experienced player in the scumQT. So, basically, my point is that Munk-E doesn't seem to know about WBG reputation or whatever so I lean town on him because it leads me to think he doesn't have extra-info. I'm for giving him some slack and letting him post his thoughts without pressuring him to much. I don't want him to go into "newbie shell mode", especially if he is town, and I currently think there are greater chances for this than him being scum. | ||
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On December 11 2012 01:28 wherebugsgo wrote: this is WIFOM and overthinking all in one. Very rarely from my experience are scumteams organized at all this early in the game (or, for that matter, ever). Individual players don't tend to think very much about smaller posts, it's really only the larger posts and the overarching ideas (such as bussing/pushing wagons) that are coordinated. I'm speaking from my own experience as a newbie scum in a "real game with vets", the Looney Lynching Game. When I joined the scumQT, Hiro and OriginalName were already discussing about when to kill sandroba or mementoss. So I had naturally avoided interactions with these players. I was also asking for some advice like "should I go after this guy?" and stuff like that. I didn't find Munk-E post against very good but I would expect this kind of posts coming from a newbie town rather than from a newbie scum. Moreover, I think we should give him some slack so he doesn't feel scared to post, regardless of his alignment. It's pretty easy to read town newbies if you let them share their thoughts quite freely imho. And if he scum, we should be able to discover it pretty quickly, and his partners should bus him anyway ^^ | ||
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On December 11 2012 01:36 marvellosity wrote: And what about you? You casually mention BL in a question about whether he and I are considered vets too, so you seem interested in him somehow. I was more interested in the relations that WBG and BL could have together. I've briefly skimmed through some of jay's linked games and I've noticed that Palmar, WBG, BL, VE and jay were already playing together in the Hammer Mini Mafia game. So I've assumed they knew each other play from this time so I wanted to know if WBG had really more reasons to suspect Palmar to be in the mafia rather than BL (prior to BL first post) or any reason not to comment on BL's vote. From Bl's OP, it looks like he is going to participate more soon, but for the moment we are kind of on the same line of thoughts, so I'm not really worrying about him. | ||
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On December 11 2012 02:11 marvellosity wrote: as I read it that was bugs saying he wasn't commenting on BL, so no bugs didn't say he wouldn't be going after the other lurkers why am I finding it so hard to engage you in conversation on your read of Adam?? @ marv And who is this post addressed to ? | ||
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Djodref
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On December 11 2012 02:11 Vivax wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=7#123 Thrawn posting that his post has a purpose. www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17192357 VE defending thrawn based on meta, and that it's gotta be a joke. So apparently, VE either didn't read thrawns posts, or he believes that the purpose thrawn speaks about is that of making a joke. VE responded to a question from jay with this post. @ Vivax What was the point of this post ? We absolutely need your analysis and your thoughts about what you present us. This was kind of useless... What's your experience on mafia games on forum ? Do you know any of the other players ? Anything you would like to precise about VE or thrawn ? | ||
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First of all, you're wrong and you have failed to show what goal my actions would serve if I was scum. I'm going to help you to read my posts because you obviously didn't understand where I was going during the early game. On December 10 2012 09:37 Djodref wrote: Hello everybody ! @thrawn Did you seriously not read that millers are not self aware ? @debears Are you seriously willing to enforce a "Lynch all Liars" policy ? My first reaction to thrawn post was "yeah, obvious scum" then I thought that he might not have been serious at all. A one liner for a miller claim doesn't look real, regardless of his alignment. The way he answered "nvm, then" shows that he is carefree about it. Debears, you are jumpy as both alignments, but I wouldn't expect your town self to post a video instead of engaging the discussion to get this game rolling. FoS debears My problem with debears early vote was not that it was a vote following a LAL policy but rather the seriousness of this vote. I've assumed that it was a vote for sparking discussion because this was the early game and the atmosphere was quite carefree at this time. Nevertheless, thrawn calling out debears on his vote against him would have been a good starting point for a real discussion but debears chose to post a video instead of this. The problem was not the video itself, but more what he did not do instead. Anyway, this was an early FoS, and also an attempt for me to spark some discussion. And when debears implied that his vote was not serious (which I knew because he didn't use the voting thread to vote thrawn), I wondered why debears would throw early mindless votes like this, and I wanted him to explain this as well. All in all, I think that he didn't really care about what he was doing, and I don't read anything of it. I don't like how debears is focused on Adam so I didn't remove my Fos on him so far. Regarding thrawn, I wanted him to explain his move. I didn't see this coming from a mafia player, but still, I wanted him to explain his motivations for it. And then thrawn goes like On December 10 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote: any answer I could possibly give would just betray the actual purpose behind that post, making whatever I hoped to accomplish with that post no longer possible and then On December 10 2012 10:29 thrawn2112 wrote: All the people in the past, present, and future who ask why I lied about being miller..... can go and read this post. If they don't like it then they can just continue reading it because that's all I've got to say about it. which was pretty stubborn and stupid. I used a pressure vote (which didn't work) to get him talk, regardless of his alignment. And he deserved this pressure vote. When I unvoted him, I was expecting him to explain himself as putting himself in a position where he is going to get some pressure, especially mafia pressure. So, yeah, it matches its town mindset. And then, Clarity came in this thread with a case worth sheeping, so I sheeped. At the light of Clarity case, jay was more likely to be scum than debears. But now, as many people started to participate overnight, I'm going to update my reads. | ||
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On December 11 2012 04:23 Tunkeg wrote: *snip* I am also abit concerned about Djodref, I think he is posting alot, but his posts are very fluffy. I haven't played with him before, is this his style or? @ Tunkeg You can find all my previous games on these forums in my profile. I don't like the way you are saying I'm fluffy and scummy, without really backing it up with a case or at least some quotes. You are just discrediting me for free here. | ||
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The latest "scumslip" is not a scumslip in my opinion because it would have been one if he was totally sure that you were scum, which doesn't look to be the case. The fact that he dropped you is reasonable but it's not very indicative of his alignment because it was the best thing to do as scum and as town. I'm waiting to see where he is going to go with Vivax but I think that jay is more likely to be scum than him at this point. | ||
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On December 11 2012 12:54 thrawn2112 wrote: debears could you respond to the question I asked you at the bottom of page 22? It's in the last post on the page sorta near the bottom of my post. Djo: bleh I've probably waited too long to ask this, but I'd like you to go back to this post. When did you write it in relation to the post you made right before it? Was it one right after the other, did you make them simultaneously, did you write the 2nd one first but post the 1st one 1st, etc. please be as specific as possible @ thrawn The two posts you are talking about were independent if you are talking about these. On December 10 2012 15:31 Djodref wrote: So, I guess you are satisfied with your vote on Adam right now. According to me, Adam has been pretty clear on his stance on thrawn and I disagree with you about him: I don't see anything to blame him for right now. I'll let you do what you feel like but I'll voice my concerns if you seem mistaken. For example, right now, I feel like you should better vote for jay instead of Adam. On December 10 2012 15:34 Djodref wrote: @ thrawn In fact, this is exactly the explanation I was waiting for you. I remembered this post from our previous Looney game when you were going to be mislynched at MYLO. So, did you manage to get any clue of who could be scum after analysing the way they treated your fakeclaim ? Regarding the post you linked, it was the conclusion I came to when I was asking myself why you were being stubborn and not wanting to explain your motivations for your fakeclaim. After my pressure vote on you, I was wondering why a town thrawn would put himself in such a situation and I remembered this post you made about how you liked to be pushed as a mislynched. So, I was ready to post it before your explanation because it was what I was expecting from you. But it was not prepared, just I knew where to find this stuff. It is a strange question. Could I ask you what you are going to do with this info ? | ||
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Here is my train of thoughts. I was just trying to figure you out + Show Spoiler [Why so stubborn?] + On December 10 2012 10:35 Djodref wrote: I don't like it. I don't understand why you are being so stubborn... Let's see if it's really all you have to say about it. ##Vote thrawn + Show Spoiler [expectations] + On December 10 2012 10:56 Djodref wrote: I'm the first to vote in the voting thread So you see thrawn as a joking town or a reckless scum (less likely) or scum using WIFOM. Okay... I personally can see a motivation for a town player to fakeclaim like this (serious motivation) that would make sense but I'm waiting for him to explain it first so I can check it matches my expectation or not. At the exception of thrawn, do you have any comment to make on other players in this early game ? + Show Spoiler [matching expectations] + On December 10 2012 15:34 Djodref wrote: @ thrawn In fact, this is exactly the explanation I was waiting for you. I remembered this post from our previous Looney game when you were going to be mislynched at MYLO. So, did you manage to get any clue of who could be scum after analysing the way they treated your fakeclaim ? So, yeah, I have you on my town list after all this and also your stupid joke fakeclaiming miller. | ||
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On December 11 2012 01:44 Munk-E wrote: This is actually my 4th or fifth game. I can't find the others in my post history, because i guess TL doesn't keep a post history that's that old. Yes, day 1 lynch last time, I'm gonna try to be more active so people don't waste their lynch again for no reason other than i didn't say enough. *snip* I see his logic now, but it is flawed. I highly doubt that all the scum were lurkers. @ Munk-E Are you sure you are going to be more active to not get lynched. As far as I know, you only have said that WBG should be town. Could you expand on why you highly doubt that all the scum were lurkers ? | ||
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On December 11 2012 18:44 Palmar wrote: So yeah, the more I read the more I'm convinced that this is the correct route to take. ##Vote Adam4167 Everything about his game seems slightly off, and I think it's the better lynch between him and Jay. In fact, I think my other lynch options at this point would be WBG or Djodref (who has basically disappeared). @ Palmar I didn't disappear, I was at work. I really live in South Korea and sometimes I'm very busy at work, sometimes not. I've noticed in your video that you didn't like some of my posts but I think you have yet to show how they make me scum, which is wrong by the way. What about jay ? You don't have him as a lynch option for today ? | ||
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On December 11 2012 20:33 Palmar wrote: I think you could be scum, but it's irrelevant at the moment because you're not the guy I want to lynch at the moment. Okay but I didn't want to discuss about me but more about your stance on jay You had like adam as scum, jay, wbg and me as possible scum at the end of your video. Correct ? Why is jay not on your lynch candidates list for today anymore ? I'm asking because he has more chances to end up lynched than me at the moment and also because you were supposed to check your role PM in between | ||
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Tunkeg Let's lynched Tunkeg today ! Part I --- Lack of scumhunting On December 11 2012 08:13 Tunkeg wrote: I'd vote you over both of them, and jay over Djor if I had to vote now. But in general I think there is to little information thus far to put down any votes. So, at this point, Tunkeg would vote Vivax, jay or me in that order. But has he really put in any personal effort to figure out the alignment of these players (i.e. has he done some scumhunting) ? Not really... Voting Vivax would be an OMGUS reaction. He would be totally sheeping Clarity on jay+ Show Spoiler [sheeping Clarity] + On December 11 2012 04:23 Tunkeg wrote: So I have skimmed through the thread. And these are my thoughts: *snip* I like Clarity's post on jaybrundage. I think jaybrundage's posts are very non-commiting, and very fluffy. I have played games with jaybrundage before, and I may be wrong, but I think his style resembles what he did in Student, where he was scum. A very wishy-washy style, where he eventually did some major slips. *snip* Tunkeg stance on me + Show Spoiler [wishy-washy and slightly scummy on Djo…] + On December 11 2012 04:23 Tunkeg wrote: *snip* I am also abit concerned about Djodref, I think he is posting alot, but his posts are very fluffy. I haven't played with him before, is this his style or? On December 11 2012 07:46 Tunkeg wrote: *snip* For Djodref I think he have posted alot of useless questions, and maybe some usefull ones, maybe to look like he is active. But then again, maybe that is his style. I am not sure what to make of him. *snip* On December 11 2012 07:56 Tunkeg wrote: By scummy in front of thrawn's claim, do you mean before thrawn claimed? If so, no, because he didn't post before thrawn claimed. If I think Djordref's play is more scummy in general than thrawn's claim, then yes, as I do find thrawn's claim more townie than scummy, and Djordref's play slightly scummy. I am not sure where you want to go with this question... The spoilered posts show that Tunkeg doesn't know what to do with me and didn't try to figure me out by interacting with me or checking my previous games. Nevertheless, he would be ready to vote me today. Tunkeg doesn't put the effort that a townie should necessarily put to be sure if the guys he votes are really mafia or not. For me, it looks like he doesn't really care of who is going to get lynched today. This is some proof of a scum mindset. Part II --- The reaction to WBG case On December 11 2012 16:06 Tunkeg wrote: Lol WBG. In these games you are linking to, and others games like it, haven't you been the one complaining about me posting readposts like that? And also me posting "useless" questions? And now you say the same play you labeled as bad and useless actually was scumhunting? If you want me lynched for meta fine. But don't try to convince the thread you were a fan of my previos play. WBG's case on Tunkeg + Show Spoiler [the case in question] + On December 11 2012 14:43 wherebugsgo wrote: *snip* Tunkeg: Every post he makes is either a useless summary or a wishy washy load of crock shit. Exhibit A: He says absolutely nothing here. At the point that he posts this, it's general consensus that thrawn is town or at the very least dumb. Thus, his entire first paragraph is just saying something for the sake of saying something. It doesn't add anything to discussion, because no one fucking asked Tunkeg if he had a town read on Thrawn. We don't need to know everyone's town reads unless they have relevance to the lynch (i.e. the guy getting lynched or being suspected is town to you) Secondly, his thoughts on jay and djo are very nebulous and not specific at all. He also has no concrete opinion and whatever he does think was clearly not original (which is bad in the sense that, if that idea passes through to fruition, i.e. a lynch, he won't take the fall for it) Now, some stuff from meta: Here's a game Tunkeg played as town: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337724. Here are some posts he made from day 1: Note how much more proactive he is in establishing reads and pushing questions and thoughts. In this game, he's all like: The change in tone and willingness to scumhunt is incredibly apparent. Either Tunkeg has become drastically worse as a town player (doubt it) or he is scum this game. Just from memory I find these posts this game to be in contrast to how he played in Arkham City and in Mafia LI as well, where he was town. So, let's kill Tunkeg today. ##unvote ##vote Tunkeg From Tunkeg's answer, you can see that he doesn't address the points WBG made against him and that he diverts the meta case against him into an emotional complaint about how WBG didn't appreciate his previous town play. After that, he keeps on discrediting WBG. On December 11 2012 17:36 Tunkeg wrote: I am not treating you like town. I am saying you are capable of getting me lynched regardless of allignment. And imo it is your "debatish" attitude towards the game that have given you a reputation for being a strong scumplayer. Your way of misrepresenting facts and winning arguements when being wrong helps you as scum, but is not that great when you are town. Either way you are wrong here, I am town, so you are either scum deliberatly trying to misrepresent the facts, or town overeager to win the arguement and not seeing the truth. The fact that Tunkeg didn't calmly address the points made against him and went all emotional in his defense are strong points that indicate that Tunkeg is indeed scum. Conclusion Tunkeg
Please read my spoilers ! ##Unvote ##Vote Tunkeg | ||
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On December 11 2012 23:38 wherebugsgo wrote: djo do you have a game you can link me where you played town? Ok, here is all the links, you can find them in my profile by the way. The most recent games are Chrono Trigger Mafia and the NMM XXX game -Newbie Mini Mafia XXVIII as Cop -Looney Lynching Mini Mafia as Mafia Pardoner -Newbie Mini Mafia XXIX as VT -Newbie Mini Mafia XXX as Jailkeeper -Mario Mini Mafia as Mafia Roleblocker -Chrono Trigger Mafia as Janus' Cat | ||
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Let's say that we cannot get a consensus on who to lynch among jay, adam and tunkeg. Would anyone mind to policy lynch grush following a "Lynch the Trolls" policy ? | ||
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On December 11 2012 23:51 marvellosity wrote: No, we're not doing that, that's stupid. Answer me something Djo - why is playing emotionally rather than rationally a scum trait? @ marv I don't think it's a scum trait in general. It is here a scum trait when you consider his defense of WBG's case imo. I fucked up my conclusion here, sorry... Rather than trying to show that WBG arguments were not good or not necessarily indicative of mafia play, he went into a whiny "you didn't even like my town play in these previous games" and then proceeds to discredit WBG. Regarding grush, I've seen in the LVII that he is perfectly capable of gamethrowing so I don't think it's as stupid as it looks. | ||
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On December 12 2012 00:29 Z-BosoN wrote: Well I got power-sniped on that last bullet. Still something Djo is capable of as scum though. You can just admit that you were wrong about my alignment now On a serious note, I'm going to address your latest post. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [for reference] + On December 12 2012 00:28 Z-BosoN wrote: 1) Yes I have. I mentioned "scum getting lost in the sidetracks", because that's what's going on. You are trying to make it seem like you are contributing, when in fact, you are not. More on that later. 2) I don't buy this. You assumed that it was a vote intended to spark discussion, because it was in early game and had a "carefree" atmosphere, made by debears. You then pressure FOS debears to make sure he sparks discussion as his townie self. Then, he goes after adam, and you keep the FOS because you disagree with his case?? You can disagree with his case, just like you did somewhere, but that is only warranted of your suspicions is if you think it's fake comes from scum. Yet what do you do? You go on to drop debears entirely and go around asking questions about other aspects of the game without taking a proper stance yourself. 3) This still doesn't make sense. Why in gods name are you so interested in thrawn explaining himself, if you think he's town??. Why did you pressure vote him, whom you had a town read on, instead of going after debears, someone you've made quite clear you don't like the play this game? Also, to those who aren't feeling Djo, notice his complete lack of scumhunting in this game. Here's a summary of his entire play this game:
And that's IT. Zero stances, zero cases. It's scum feigning contribution. 1)So, basically, you are saying that I couldn't keep my story straight. And that shows that I'm scum. I would say that I've been inconsistent as townies can be inconsistent. Basically, my FoS on debears was not a very serious one (like all early FoS are) and I didn't feel like I had to follow it up when thrawn put himself at the center of the attention. 2)I was disagreeing with debears view on Adam and I still disagree with it because I think he is exaggerating some points. But debears has done nothing to deserve a vote. So I don't see why I should have not the right to use my vote on thrawn to pressure him. And yeah, I was leaning town on thrawn when I voted him but I needed his explanations for his miller claim to assess my read on him. 3)Putting pressure on thrawn was fulfilling two goals. The first one was to help me to assess my town read on him when he was going to reveal us his "plan". It was kind of obvious he was going to say something like this but I was interested to know how he was going to present things, and he did say almost exactly what I expected. The second goal was to show him that he was putting himself in a bad situation and that he should better explain himself asap so that the thread could move on to another subject because all this situation was a bit stupid and not helping us to have constructive discussions. | ||
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On December 12 2012 00:39 debears wrote: Is anyone else seeing something very weird going on between vivax and adam?????? like really, I'm getting shivers from their interactions Like, adam making a post about vivax and how he is wary of him without voting him ? Vivax coming up in the thread and defending adam like if the thread was still at page 15 ? And Vivax going against Adam after catching up and stuff ? Yeah, it's strange, but I don't see Vivax as scum because it looks like he genuinely didn't read some part of the thread. | ||
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On December 12 2012 00:53 Z-BosoN wrote: Djo you little shit stop sniping me I'll stop sniping you when you stop saying I'm your top scumread Seriously, your case is not bad but it's mainly a collection of inconsistencies from my early game play. It shouldn't be a damning proof for me to be scum. Plus you should know that I ask a lot of questions usually, not all of them relevant. I'll start to do some scumhunting and I hope you can realize that I'm town. | ||
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On December 12 2012 01:02 Z-BosoN wrote: 1) Scummies are more likely to be inconsistent than townies, so it's a small tell, but still a tell. What bugs me is the logic you had regarding debars/thrawn I've already went over. 2) Wait a minute. Bolded part. Whatever happened to: Still not keeping your story straight. You say you lean him being town, now you lean him being scum. Worst of all, where is the reasoning, where is the justification for this?? 3) It's counter-productive. You are wasting time reassessing a "town-read" you had, and you STILL are flimsy and not moving on: What do you expect to hear? Are you still trying to confirm thrawn as town? Thrawn has been questioned twice already regarding this and the most he said was "bugs came out looking worse". This is another example of you fooling around trying to look like you are contributing, imo. 1)Okay, I'm just saying that it was the early game and that I didn't follow up my FoS on debears so much because it was not a very serious one. 2)I have Adam as slightly scum. Debears is convinced that Adam is scum. I would lynch Tunkeg and jay before Adam today, I would say that grush might even be a better lynch choice than Adam. This is where I disagree with debears. Basically, I'm not sure that Adam is scum because some points brought against him seem to be exaggerated in my opinion. I would prefer to let him live today so I can have a better read on him when the game goes on. 3)The conversation that you quoted has been initiated by thrawn and I was answering him. His first question was weird and I wanted to know why he asked me it in the first place, it turned out that he was still unsure of my thought process. I hope that things are clear between him and me now. This conversation was productive in my opinion. I'm not 100% sure that thrawn is town at the moment and it helped me to confirm my view on him. What would be the benefit of a scum Djodref to ask this ? | ||
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On December 12 2012 01:25 Vivax wrote: Fucking hell Djodref, stop writing a river, noone's voting for you. Instead, tell us about your reads. Who is scum and who is town in your opinion? I think that Tunkeg is mafia, less sure about jay now. I wouldn't mind to lynch Adam but I'm not sure that he would turn out to be mafia. It pains me to see that all these players are not active right now because I cannot get better reads on them. I think that Clarity and thrawn are town, less sure about debears or marv but I have them as town as well for the moment. I have Munk-E has a very slight town read because he went directly after wbg when entering the thread but I thought he was a newbie at that time. I would like Z-Bo to move on so I can see what he thinks of other players than Tunkeg and me. For the rest of the players, I'm not familiar with them so they are in a grey area. | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote Jay | ||
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I've seen successful late (like 5 min before deadline) counter bangwagon in Mario Mini Mafia so it's never too late | ||
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At least, him posting reads was an improvement. | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote Tunkeg | ||
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On December 12 2012 08:57 debears wrote: Djo you really don't want to lynch Adam huh? It's not that, I just really don't think he is our best lynch today. I thought the deadline was at 9am Korea also. I've got to go to work now. I hope you guys are right about Adam... | ||
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Counter wagon ! GO GO GO ! ##Unvote ##Vote jay | ||
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On December 12 2012 09:26 thrawn2112 wrote: djodref, jay is not the counter wagon you are looking for You mean BlueLightz ? I didn't take the time to look at his filter yet after Clarity's case against him... I'll have a quick look right now ! | ||
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On December 12 2012 10:51 thrawn2112 wrote: but are you scum? so now it seems natural that among thrawn, boson, and djodref, each of them should be expecting to find at least 1 scum between the other two..... unless any of them think that all the scum were bussing adam, which thrawn doesn't No, I'm not scum. Are you high ? Why do you speak of yourself as a third person ? I'm still leaning town on you. It's natural for townies to feel unsecure about the lynch target (they don't know for sure that it is the right target or not). I would lean town on Z-Bo for the moment, but I would need to revise this read is he spends all his time tunneling me. | ||
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On December 12 2012 11:34 marvellosity wrote: this is a very passive-aggressive way of trying to get someone to stop attacking you. hmm. Z-Bo has spent the majority of his time tunneling me. I know I'm town so I would find it scummy if he keeps focusing only on me. I have no problem discussing with him to prove him that he is wrong though ^^ | ||
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On December 12 2012 11:41 thrawn2112 wrote: "I know I'm town so I would find it scummy" as in "if I was town I would find it scummy? I would find it scummy if he keeps focusing only on me. Because I know I'm town. I don't think there is any ambiguity. Otherwise, L2 French Grammar | ||
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On December 12 2012 12:21 thrawn2112 wrote: "I would find it scummy" coming from a town player only makes sense when talking about a hypothetical scenario. But this isn't a hypothetical scenario. The only way it can be a hypothetical scenario is if you are hypothetically town, which of course means that you'd actually be scum. Telling me what actions boson needs to take in a hypothetical scenario in order for you to get a town read on him doesn't make any sense. The hypothetical scenario is the scenario where Z-Bo is chasing only me for the next days. In this hypothetical scenario, I would need to revise my current town read on him. | ||
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1. I sheeped Clarity and Clarity's case was worth sheeping. But you are twisting the facts when you say that I've sheeped for voting Tunkeg. I provided my own case for Tunkeg before voting him. Also I have done more than you in this game so don't be an hypocrite. 2. I have stated multiple times than I didn't feel like Adam was the best lynch. So I've tried to promote my top scumread lynches over Adam lynch. The majority was reached for Adam's lynch without my help so I didn't need to cast my vote against him. 3. My actions before the lynch are more relevant of a town Djodref not knowing if Adam was going to flip scum or not than of a scum Djodref that would have known that Adam was going to flip scum (it was quite clear he was today's lynch after my first attempt to lead a counter bandwagon on you). It would have been easier and safer for scum me to bus Adam because I had given me this escape route before when I said that I didn't mind an Adam lynch. Ok, this is WIFOM, but you should know that my behavior before the lynch points towards a town Djodref and not a scum Djodref. | ||
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Vivax A tentative associative case with Adam First of all, I think that Z-Bo did a great job to show that Vivax vote on Adam looks like a bus vote. Here is Z-Bo previous case on Vivax for reference+ Show Spoiler [Z-Bo's case] + Vivax. Let us take a gander. His mindset was 100% not inclined towards killing Adam. I mean, look at some of his posts: States clear disinterest in lynching Adam: On December 12 2012 01:51 Vivax wrote: ffs I don't wanna get Adam lynched. Let's get jay cmon, just cause he's out of attention doesn't mean he didn't act scumm.y Shows some soft-suspicion towards Tunkeg: On December 12 2012 02:37 Vivax wrote: Wtf Tunkeg, can't you share your reads some earlier instead of going martyr-mode at this time. Then he includes Adam, but as a last option: On December 12 2012 06:23 Vivax wrote: Either Bluelightz, Jay or Tunk. The initial case against Adam was pretty bad, but his latest activity isn't exactly townie, since he's not been doing anything useful nor defending himself much. He's the last option for me. Then suddenly, WAM BAM KAPLOW. Soft-suspicion on tunkeg yet again (???) and VOTE ADAM On December 12 2012 06:40 Vivax wrote: Dude, that's a really bad attitude. You have 1000 ways to strengthen your arguments other than to accept a mislynch just like that. And even if everybody follows your arguments after that, which is as unlikely as it was before, you still might be super wrong about them, so it also shows you are pretty cocky about your opinion. (Or maybe you're scum who has succeeded in fooling us all) Anyway, 6 votes on Adam so far, count me in for the last 3. I like what grush had to say in this one. Inbefore OMG HE'S BANDWAGONING. ##Unvote ##Vote Adam Why the soft-suspicion on tunkeg? Why the change of heart? Let's see what happens between the last two posts I quoted. There is just this post from grush: On December 12 2012 06:25 grush57 wrote: That's pretty reasonable. I'm a bit cautious of Bluelightz because he is a vet. Jay strikes me as a foolish townie and Tunk is probably a noobie. I want to vote Adam because he is reminding me of his scum play. And the post that he quoted from tunkeg, where he added some soft-suspicion yet again. There was no reason to change his mind from a townie perspective, especially with four hours left on the clock. Plenty of time to push his "alternatives". I think he must have assumed that he wouldn't be able to save Adam and decided to bus him. I'm more interested in Vivax first mention ever of Adam. In my opinion, the following post is damning. On December 11 2012 21:24 Vivax wrote: I've read Adams filter. So basically, the case on him seems to be built on "the change of tone in his post". That post with changed tone dabears mentioned was written one day after the last ones, so it's likely that he's writing like that cause he's not heated up like the day before. That day, he finished into an OMGUS fight with dabears, where they basically both vote for each other cause they argue about having to vote for the people you lean scum on. And this is where the matter stinks. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=9#171 This is dabeers post about Adam. OH SHIT HE'S SUSPICIOUS CAUSE HE'S NOT VOTING FOR THRAWN. Look at the post, look at the voting thread, look at the reactions. Adam voted before debears upon being accused by him of not voting thrawn, meanwhile, dabears accused Adam of something he himself did. Only clarity so far has expressed criticism of this case against Adam, now I will, too. 1.The case is shit 2.The case is shit 3.The case is shit Being this a shit case accepted by many people, I think there's scum trying to sheep in it. First of all, Vivax states that "[He has] read Adam's filter". That's useless and pointless because he then proceed to hard defend Adam from the 'case' of debears, and explaining what was going around at that time. I'm quite sure that he didn't read Adam's filter and tried to defend his scum buddy straight away. Why ? Because if he really had read Adam's filter, he would have found the following post in it. + Show Spoiler [Adam attacking Vivax] + On December 11 2012 12:49 Adam4167 wrote: No good is going to come of getting into a shit-fight with dabears, so I wont. My initial read towards him was "leaning scum" when I questioned his 'case/not-case' that he made on me, but that was a long time ago. Since then he's put a lot of effort into his focus on me and while I know this is misguided, I also feel that it is coming from an honest place, hence why I am not screaming that he is intentionally taking all of my posts out of context, because I do not believe it to be the case. ##Unvote The person I am interested in right now is Vivax. This post here, you say that VE shows no interest in scumhunting, is actively lurking the thread and yet conclude "maybe scum, maybe sloppy". This is very wishy-washy and ultimately amounts to nothing. What was the point of pointing this out if you were not going to draw any conclusions from it either way? You accuse VE of scummy actions yet in the same post say that you would vote thrawn over it for his 'joke' claim. To me, this looks like acting like you're trying to scum hunt without actually doing anything. Then not long after you produce: This post looks to be saying that thrawn has some agenda or strategy by fakeclaiming miller and that you no longer believe it was a joke. Ok, if he's playing with some form of strategy, do you believe it to be a scum one, you do not comment on his alignment either way with this post. It is mostly just a rehashing of what Clarity posted. Then a vote on Jaybrundage comes seemingly out of nowhere once interest in him picks up in the thread. What happened to Thrawn? or VE? The reasoning for this vote does not appear until after someone presses you for it and the reasoning you provide is just a summary of his actions, and it does not illustrate why Jaybrundage is scum. Furthermore, for someone that said here that you just couldnt let thrawns claim go, you dropped it exceedingly quickly to pursue Jaybrundage. I find your lack of follow-up on VE or Thrawn shows you had no intent on trying to find out their alignment. Just as a remark, please note the Adam didn't vote Vivax after this post. Look at the time stamps, Adam had voiced his suspicion of Vivax before the post where Vivax states that "he has read Adam's filter". Let's say that you are town. You found a 'case' against you in someone's filter. What do you do ? Do you proceed to hard defend this guy first ? Do you defend yourself first ? Don't you get suspicious of this guy who is attacking you ? Town Vivax proceeds to hard defend the guy first. Town Vivax must have a super duper town read on Adam. Not buying it Vivax reaction after "reading Adam's filter" doesn't show a townie mindset at all. He has been already called for it and look how he responded to it. On December 11 2012 22:37 Vivax wrote: I'm reading better than you think . I still think your case is full of shit. I see a lot of word-twisting in it. And I don't care if Adam is voting for me as long as I believe him to be town. What kind of bad question is that. Why are you thinking from a scum point of view? *snip* So, yeah, Vivax doesn't care if Adam attacked him before and is ready to defend him because he believes his town. That raises the following questions:
I cannot answer these questions by anything else that Vivax was Adam's scumbuddy. Vivax is scum. | ||
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On December 12 2012 14:55 thrawn2112 wrote: I actually have a read on him now, and it's town. What do you think about his actual filter, not his meta? I'm surprised that you would be talking about a grush policy lynch after a successful D1 lynch. A policy lynch is the last thing I have on my mind going into D2 after flipping a scum on D1. btw, I've concluded that grush is probably a smart troll. He's either smart for being right about adam or he's smart for doing the thing that makes me think he's town. I was answering to jay (he mentions that I was proposing a grush lynch as a joke in his case). During D1, I was serious when I proposed a policy lynch on grush. I don't think it's a good idea now because we have better lynch choices. Regarding grush, I'm null on him because he doesn't explain his though process at all. And he is a liability, regardless of his alignment. | ||
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On December 12 2012 14:55 debears wrote: He obviously isn't a liability considering he voted for a scum. So either he's 1) A scum bussing his partner 2) A townie that agrees with good logic Your pick. You can't call him a liability You'll see if you ever get with him at LYLO or MYLO. Check the LVII game. Anyway, I was proposing a policy lynch on him yesterday and he is not my priority at all for tomorrow. So, let's not waste time on this one, if you don't mind. | ||
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On December 12 2012 15:13 jaybrundage wrote: He says it in the post under the text. The main point of my case is that you said you would help us lynch adam, and you failed to deliver. Also your play isn't indicative of a townie who is not sure on adam. It seems to reak of a scum buddy desperately trying ot save adam. I wasnt sure on adam, but to prevent a no lynch i voted him. @ jay I said that I wouldn't mind an Adam lynch but that I would have preferred lynching Tunkeg or you. I didn't help to consolidate the lynch because the majority was reached without me. I was here at the deadline and I've even tried to vote Munk-E at the end but I couldn't do it properly because I was driving my car. I've tried to lynch Tunkeg and you over Adam because you were my top scum reads. Honestly, you didn't do anything special to show that you were town after Clarity's case on you. | ||
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On December 12 2012 15:26 thrawn2112 wrote: If he's town he's not a liability based on what happened today. Let's assume that he is town. Today, he is not a liability, he is going to be one at LYLO if it ever happens. Anyway, I was just answering jay's case against me. I don't think we should focus on grush for now. | ||
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Which is weird. I agree that he didn't have to find him scummy but not go defending him like this. My first reaction as town would have to defend myself or to find a scum. | ||
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On December 12 2012 16:02 thrawn2112 wrote: eh, my memories of people hard defending each other D1 are usually of scum hard defending a townie. I think that scum hard defending scum wouldn't be too likely He did it when it was not sure yet that Adam would be lynched. And he discedited people voting Adam. ”there is scum pn this wagon” | ||
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On December 12 2012 18:01 thrawn2112 wrote: No, he thought I was town the whole time. His first read on me was: "My first reaction to thrawn post was "yeah, obvious scum" then I thought that he might not have been serious at all. A one liner for a miller claim doesn't look real, regardless of his alignment. The way he answered "nvm, then" shows that he is carefree about it." The other issue is him asking why I did it and pressure voting me to find out. He later says the town motivation he thought I had was that that I was hoping to attract pressure from scum. This was based on a post I made from looney. So if he thinks I'm trying to attract scum attention, why would he vote pressure me so that I'll announce it to the thread? @ thrawn I didn't know what the fuck you were trying to do at first when you said "not explaining why I did this at all". At first, I was expecting you to simply admit that you wanted to spark discussing with this obvious fakeclaim but I didn't understand why you went into that "not explaining anything at all mode". I pressure voted you because I was still not so sure I had made the right choice at that time (i.e. town move or lying scum) and I wanted you to explain yourself for the following reasons:
Then, I thought about the comment you made in the Looney Game... | ||
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On December 12 2012 18:49 Palmar wrote: Hello Djodref: You are not required to post anything more at all in this thread. Everything you've said has been dumb, useless and I think you're either scum or bad. In both cases, please just shut up and only vote according to what I tell you. @ Palmar I won't shut up. Your read on me is wrong so I don't have to take your reads as the fucking Divine Word. Unfortunately, I have to admit that you are most likely to be town, that your read on Adam was spot on and that you are certainly also right about WBG, given how he is falling apart right now... But seriously, you don't need to be that condescending. | ||
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I'm not going to stop posting. Suck it up | ||
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Can I ask more details about how you went from this On December 12 2012 13:01 Hapahauli wrote: Regarding Djo I'm not sure if anyone's brought it up, but I watched Palmar's video and was really surprised he skipped over one of his posts in his analysis: The underlined bit is a very strange thing for a townie to say. Townies are a naturally suspicious folk, and a line of reasoning that assumes someone is not scum really goes against this mentality. Of course I'm not going to judge him on one post, but if there's anyone I could call a scum-read right now, it would be Djo. to this ? On December 12 2012 17:05 Hapahauli wrote: *snip* Djodref - This one probably needs some 'splainin. The shit that he pulled at the end of the Day 1 lynch in no sane way came from a scum player. He was really enthralled with this idea of starting a last-minute wagon on a player when it was clear that adam would be getting lynched. I can't see hypothetical scum Djo pulling stuff like this, since he would have known that Adam would flip red. The dynamics of the game suggest that Adam was bussed by scum in the later hours. Djodref's play is far too attention-whoring and suicidal to be from scum. In addition, there are posts like this... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=13#260 ...where he displays a really convoluted thought process that I attribute more to town than scum. *snip* Also, I would like to know if you had ever read the Looney Lynching Mafia game ? Don't you feel like you are maybe the only one with a town read on me ? What do you make of it ? | ||
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Tunkeg A good lynch candidate for today So, what happened since this post+ Show Spoiler [Tunkeg's reads] + On December 12 2012 02:17 Tunkeg wrote: So I will probably lynched tonight and really I am not that bothered by it, because it will give you some good pointers on who you can trust this game, and who should be scrutinized. Palmar is basicly confirmed town for me at this point. If he was scum he could have easily pushed me with the rest of you. As he stopped reading before he got to me in his video. If he did in fact read his PM after that video, and had flipped scum I think he would be going with the flow, and going for me. If there is a JK in this game he should definately jail Palmar to protect him from harm. He is the town that scum will be gunning for, 100%. Adam is very likely scum at this point. I think he plays exellent as town, at least he have the games I have played with him, but is easily figured out when scum. This game he have been very vague, and unconfrontational and filled up his post with mostly nonsense. He have put out his feelers on multiple players to see if he can get something started. The kicker though is his less than convincing last post where he says I have a high chance of flipping scum. When adam says stuff like this I know he is either scum, or fed up with the game, he is to good to just put an unreasoned vote on me like that. I believe he is scum. Clarity_nl have to be town. His play so far have been very pro-town in my eyes. All that he have done so far are screaming town to me. He asks the right kind of questions, he calls people out when he thinks they are scummy, and he have even made a little case. If he isn't town I will muchachoes surprised. thrawn212 I have a townread on. Yes, he made a stupid joke play in the beginning. Yes he is totally missreading me, to such a degree that I find it laughable. But I think he is a stupid (in lack of a better word) townie, and not a scum player. I feel his intentions are good, but that he isn't really thinking things through. A tip for you thrawn, find some townplayer to sheep, that is pretty much the best you can do for town. wherebugsgo is probably scum this game. You should look into him after killing adam on day 2. A part from his 80%preliminary scumread on Palmar, which is so very useless, he have basicly done nothing but trying to get me lynched while leaving numerous backdoors open which he can slide away into if his push on me fails, Adam, Munk-E. Adam being a choice he is pretty much forced to have on his list, as he is very obviously scummy. And even though wherebugsgo does anything to win an arguement, he is missrepresenting facts and twisting words to such a degree that it is ridculous. My favorite thus far is: + Show Spoiler + On December 11 2012 23:56 wherebugsgo wrote: generally with Adam and Tunkeg if they shy away from discussion they're probably scum. A lot of the time I find that when they are town I notice when they're present and know their opinions, and when they are scum they don't say anything useful. Take Adam and LI for example. Adam was incredibly passive and I put him on my scumlist at some point because I kept thinking, damn, Adam isn't doing anything, but no one noticed him. (I also didn't bring attention to him because I was more concerned with VE and that stupid Toad + VE shit but this is irrelevant to my point) Adam I know for a fact is complacent and passive as scum, and that's how his play here is. I don't feel like he has made any strong posts and he doesn't seem to have anything to contribute either. Tunkeg tends to draw attention to himself as town (usually unintentionally) by putting forth his opinions or reads or doing things that people don't like for whatever reason. I know I myself have chewed him out for doing things like that. I don't recall ever playing with him when he was scum, but I imagine that his scum play is similar to most other players lately; just really complacent and passive. Where he actually knows my scummeta without me ever having played scum on here. That is pretty impressive, and twisty, and made up, and bs... When someone goes after me like WBG have done in this game I usually ask myself: scummy or stupid? I think WBG's townplay is above avarage for sure, and I don't think he is as stupid as his posts in this game makes him out to be. So the conclusion is that he is scum. jaybrundage is scummy to me as I previously stated. He haven't posted much since, but I still find his posts very very fluffy and without content. He is unwilling to commit to any of his "reads" and he contradicts himself within the same posts, like: + Show Spoiler + On December 10 2012 12:27 jaybrundage wrote: I swear to god if thrawn doesnt explain him self. Hes the most anti town player i have seen in a while. Frustrating really. I am only hesitant to vote him because i dont like early bandwagons in general. It hurts the conversation and shit to read if we all are voting the same person. Regardless of how unlogical his claims maybe (for town). Thrawn can you please drop your sharade and just attempt to explain your reasoning. Or as i said before your gonna get lynched Djodref I am leaning scum on, for all the same reasons as before. He have made his fair share of posts, but all I see in them is .................. ....................... ........................... (nothingness). He also made a case on me that is less than weak. Vivax I am back to a neutral stance on. I am not sure wheather his questions have been made to look active, or if he is just lazy, stupid and reads bad enough to not see that his questions have allready been answered previously. Also a player that if town, should find a good townie to just sheep. The rest is pretty much under the radar for me. But I would be watching VE when he pops up again, he is quite easy to read when he starts posting. ##Vote Adam PS: I'll stick around for awhile, playing some Dota, and I might pop in and answer you if I feel the need to do so. If I don't it is either because your question is stupid, I find you stupid/annoying and are ignoring you or that I simply missed it. Anyways, feel free to lynch me, at least then you know Palmar is pretty much confirmed town. This is probably of more value to the town than me sticking around. Remember to protect him from nighthits if you do this, and you will win this easypeasy. First of all, I'd like to day that his list of reads is quite consensual. Adam has showed us that it is quite easy for a mafia player to give away such a list (please note that their reads are quite similar). Secondly, Tunkeg did not improve his behavior since the first cases against him (WBG, Z-Bo and me). The main reason he is suspicious in my eyes is that Tunkeg doesn't scumhunt. Like he doesn't scumhunt at all. On December 12 2012 16:02 Tunkeg wrote: Boom! That was a great lynch! Now WBG is 100% scum. Look how hard he was pushing for me after Adam got in trouble. Look how he kept including Adam as his 2nd read, while not ever pointing out why he thought he was scummy. He did this because Adam was very obv scummy, and wbg not mentioning adam as scummy would look really bad for him. Also look at adams read post how hard he tried to distance himself from wbg, "agreeing" with my read on him. Also look at how wbg have presented his arguements (word twisting and misrepresenting facts) and his silly "80% Palmar is scum". WBG must be lynched day 2. Palmar got to be protected if we got a jailkeeper. Also if we got a cop look into someone trying to push my case, voting me and/or push/vote some other case after Adam got mentioned in Palmars video. On December 13 2012 00:18 Tunkeg wrote: If we have a vig he should definately put a cap in WBG's ass. If we have a jailkeeper he should definately protect Palmar. But even if protected the chance is that scum got a vig and will double stack Palmar. WBG dies tonight or tomorrow, but Palmar who should we kill day 3? Saying that WBG is 100% is strange coming from a townie. It's always an easy way for the mafia to avoid contributing further by tunneling only one guy. For his other scumreads (jay and me), he doesn't interact with us and didn't try to figure us out more than that, just saying that we are scummy and that we should get lynched is enough. For example, I have yet to see a case against me from Tunkeg while he is keeping saying I'm scummy since his opening post. Look how is he ready to sheep Palmar for the 3rd lynch when WBG didn't even flip yet. Why he is asking Palmar who to lynch next instead of promoting his own lynches ? Another interesting thing is his interaction with Palmar here. + Show Spoiler [dumb people] + On December 13 2012 00:36 Tunkeg wrote: Well, there are some seriously dumb people playing this game. If they happend to roll jk they need to be told what to do. On December 13 2012 00:45 Tunkeg wrote: Nah, its the same people I have called dumb earlier. Maybe they haven't noticed or forgot. Don't want to insult them more, they might just not do as told to spite me. I find it very intersting how he shies away from Palmar's question here. I really can feel the mafia player close to getting caught and trying to take the escape route. Why ? Calling people dumb like this (reference to potential jailkeepers) is a scumslip. You call town players dumb and bad, mafia players are just mafia players The only person that Tunkeg has called stupid and has a read on is thrawn. We could conclude that Tunkeg thought that thrawn was the JK and needed some directions. The thing is that Tunkeg did mention several people being dumb, not only one. Tunkeg has called Vivax dumb, but also a potential scum player. So is Vivax potential JK or potential scum ? I don't see anyone else that Tunkeg thinks is dumb, but I guess that he was thinking at other town players. On December 13 2012 01:05 Tunkeg wrote: If you can't find anyone I call dumb or anyone I am portraying as dumb then so be it. Look how much he is trying to shut down this discussion ! My main point is that Tunkeg spends all his time giving reads, defending himself but he doesn't interact so much with anybody, doesn't push his scumreads (jay and me). TUNKEG DOESN'T SCUMHUNT. Hence he is mafia. The way he was convinced that WBG was scum, him asking Palmar who to lynch next and then shying away from the discussion when he was about to slip is just the icing on the cake. I didn't put in the effort to scumhunt in my last mafia game. Why ? Because it is tiresome when you roll mafia. I know now that "No scumhunting = mafia". ##Vote Tunkeg Z-Bo, I would like your comments on this case. I think you should change your mind again about Tunkeg. | ||
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On December 13 2012 13:22 jaybrundage wrote: EBWODP ##Voting Clarity Will get a case when I have more time. I don't think you should waste your time on this. WBG was a potential mislynch, the mafia doesn't get rid of this kind of players, they like them a lot. | ||
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I didn't take the time to look at BL yet. At first glance, I wouldn't mind to lynch him today. You are the closest to be confirmed town right now for me. | ||
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On December 13 2012 14:00 jaybrundage wrote: If clarity didn't suck at scum hunting, maybe I wouldn't consider voting him. As it is, he tried to lynch me, and wasn't going for the adam lynch at all. He has yet to help us lynch a scum yet. If he succeeded at derailing the adam lynch to me we would have two dead townies Clarity is after BL now, do you think that BL is town ? I think that it would have been a good day today for the mafia if they could have pushed the mislynch on WBG. It was anti-mafia to shot WBG at this point. Even if you think he is bad at scumhunting, it's at least better than not scumhunting at all ! Anyway, I'm not going to stop you from writing your case against Clarity, but it better be the best case of the year if you don't want me to fight it ! It's just going to be a waste of your time imho. Clarity is not going to get lynched today. | ||
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On December 13 2012 03:39 thrawn2112 wrote: So either alignment, it was dumb and not really worth talking about. It's either stupid because I'm mafia and it would attract too much attention or it's stupid because I'm town and the mafia will automatically be paranoid of stuff like that. So I don't see why you spent so much attention on it. You even said you were thinking about this quote from the looney game: So if you thought that was the town motivation I don't see why you'd mention it to the thread @ thrawn I have mentioned it to the thread because I thought that it was a pretty big towntell and that it would maybe have convinced other townies that you were more likely to be town than mafia pulling off a "big play". Also it was to show that I had definitively assessed my town read on you. I didn't care to out your plan because I thought that it was bad (too obvious) and that you wouldn't catch mafia players with it. | ||
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Disclaimer: Important Read Post WBG beautiful bluff So, there is something important that some of you may have missed. Just before being shot, WBG did this: On December 13 2012 09:24 wherebugsgo wrote: I'M SCUM OK YOU GOT ME and then On December 13 2012 09:33 wherebugsgo wrote: really? how so? I'm really curious to know this, so I can improve my scum play for the future. At this point, only the mafia team could have known that he was lying about his alignment. When I read this, I thought, "ok, bugs was really scum, Palmar imb4, gg mafia, time to concede noaw". So I think we can get very valuable information from the reactions of the people present in the thread to WBG's last move. Town players were going to react like me, I mean that they are going to fully believe Bugs. Mafia players were going to feel awkward in front of this fakeclaim, and maybe avoiding participating at this point. Marv For example, marv is certainly town, due to this post, which I cannot see as anything but genuine. On December 13 2012 09:34 marvellosity wrote: eh, save it for the post-game. This is the reaction to expect from town marv. @ VE What do you make of this one ? Vivax Vivax reactions look also quite townie. I think I was wrong about him. He looks to have a carefree town style. Please check all page 65 to see Vivax's reaction as he gets uber-sniped and the his WBG's eulogy. On December 13 2012 09:41 Vivax wrote: But actually, I can see a scum Bugs fit in there too. On December 13 2012 10:00 Vivax wrote: I'll rather remind myself to swear less in future posts, it's even getting boring for myself. Sorry for that, I think it's addictive to post so many insults on TL and get away with it :> . Anyway, Bugs' initial play looked so damn townie to me I didn't even bother reading on. You looked pretty pro-town there, I'll give you a props for that. Palmar? I'm not so sure what to think about Palmar's reactions. I like this one Because he is anwering to a post that even wasn't addressed to him at the first place. But this one a just pure back tracking. On December 13 2012 09:47 Palmar wrote: This doesn't prove you're scum, just means there's a good reason you need to die. But, still, I don't see scum Palmar posting this, if he knew that WBG were going to flip town. But still, posting this after flooding us with "Bugs is scum" posts is quite bad. I don't know what to think of this post. Another thing speaking for a town Palmar is this post On December 13 2012 10:47 Palmar wrote: It's also very legitimate that Bugs jailed Marv, seeing as he had basically decided very early marv was town. Marv gets some relief because of how early he joined the Adam wagon, but I'm not completely sure on him. But it makes very little sense to go for him now. Dabears is also pretty clear. I don't think that scum Palmar would have forgot who was NKed. So, all in all, still leaning town on Palmar but I don't think he took this game very seriously until now... @ Palmar Could you start to play this game more seriously ? Like reading the thread for real and stuff ? By the way, I'm town, so I recommend you to reassess your reads because you are going to look bad if you keep lynching townies. Clarity All in all, I have a strong town read on Clarity. I don't see any reason to doubt his claim because it would have been stupid for the mafia to kill a potential mislynch. His reactions before and after the flip look really genuine as well. Anyway, I already had a town read on Clarity before all this so, yeah, Clarity is Vig. @ jay Don't be stupid, don't waste your time and ours, don't write this Clarity's case and come back to your senses. Thoughts anyone ? Do you think it is far-fetched ? I think it's quite reasonable... @ Hapahauli Why didn't you comment on WBG's confession just before the flip ? | ||
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On December 13 2012 17:37 Hapahauli wrote: @ Djo What happened to your Vivax case? @ Hapahauli I don't think Vivax is scum anymore. I don't feel him as scum when I read his filter because he looks really carefree. Also I like his reactions wrt WBG's fake confession. I'm dropping my case against him. I didn't have anything except the association case with Adam and it's true that he was defending him quite hard for being his scum partner. The rest doesn't indicate a scum Vivax. So, yeah, I've just changed my read on him... | ||
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On December 13 2012 17:52 Hapahauli wrote: Also Djo, can you explain your thought process behind this? @ Hapa At first, I would like to say that I believed that the deadline was at 9am KST. I didn't feel sure about Adam being scum and I liked better (far better) a Jay's lynch (or a Tunkeg lynch). So I've tried to start a counter bandwagon without any success. I didn't work and I had to go to take a shower before going to work. The majority was reached but I was still hoping for a jay or a Tunkeg lynch. Tunkeg could have happened so I put back my vote on Tunkeg. After my shower, I've realized that the deadline was at 10am KST. On December 12 2012 09:06 Djodref wrote: It's not that, I just really don't think he is our best lynch today. I thought the deadline was at 9am Korea also. I've got to go to work now. I hope you guys are right about Adam... So I thought I was still having some time to start a counter bandwagon on jay. After that, I really had to go to work. I was checking the thread from my phone while driving and I've seen Adam's claim and Munk-E coming back. You can see an attempt to vote Munk-E in the voting thread | ||
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On December 13 2012 18:05 VisceraEyes wrote: I think it's a real claim. I think Clarity is a Scum Vigilante. @ VE What do you think about Clarity antecedents ? For me, his filter looks town, regardless of this claim. Plus the mafia do no shoot potential mislynches. | ||
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On December 13 2012 18:13 VisceraEyes wrote: I missed that in the hullabaloo. 1) That means nothing because this is a semi-closed setup. There could be more than one town vigi, so the counterclaim thing is not relevant. There's little risk in a scum Vigi claiming a shot he ACTUALLY took because we have no way of knowing if they're scum or town. 2) Why would Mafia vigi one of the stronger town players? So he can't defend himself and avoid the lynch? Maybe turn it around on one of them? Scum removing a vet from the game in a NON LYNCH situation is actually extremely strong. @ VE Your vote on Clarity is going to be acceptable for me only is you present a super strong case against him, independently of him claiming. If you can show me than Clarity was scum before that, maybe I'm going to believe that you are not faking being stupid. I'll fight against a Clarity lynch today. | ||
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On December 13 2012 18:24 VisceraEyes wrote: 1) I don't know if it's likely, I'm saying it's possible and therefor terrible play for any vig to counterclaim. It's not about Clarity "gambling" on there being two vigs, it's about the scumteam "knowing" that it's possible and relying on that to keep a vig from counterclaiming. 2) The fact that it was Bugs makes the alternative not likely. I think it's much more likely that scum Clarity shot strong townie Bugs at an opportune time for scum to make a play like that than a town Clarity shooting a veteran scumhunter without giving him a chance to defend himself and find us scum. And regardless of whether you believe Clarity is scum or town, that makes the scum KP debears yes? You're telling me that you believe that scum shot at debears and ONLY debears? @ VE Stop speculating, show us that Clarity is scum outside this claim. | ||
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On December 13 2012 18:43 Palmar wrote: oh right, I thought you meant he was trolling me about misusing the words, which I never do. I want to add this thought about Tunkeg's martyr post. Remember that if we assume he is scum, he knows bugs and I are both town, so what are the implications if I fail to stop the wagon that at the time was on him and swing it over to Adam? If he's scum he leaves a lot of things to be considered if he flips, and "opinions" on two loud town players between Bugs and I. My initial thoughts were that if he is scum, he wouldn't dare leave such strong opinions on us, especially as I had already voiced my suspicions of Bugs, and scum calling him scum then flipping scum would probably make me rethink the issue. I still feel the most reasonable explanation is that Tunkeg isn't scum. This is not true at all. Adam flipped scum and his list post was saying that WBG was scum. It didn't change your opinion at all. Adam and Tunkeg lists look almost the same, it's just lists fitting the general consensus. What's up with your double standards ? | ||
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Do you even have a scumread right now ? You are going to be lynched if you keep on playing the way you do because you just don't contribute. If you are town, shape up now ! | ||
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I think it is a valid approach. Did you read my latest post on WBG last bluff ? I think you should take Vivax out of the list for his reactions at that time. Obvsiouly you should remove me from the list as well ^^ My conclusion is that the remaining scum players are among BL, Tunkeg, VE, Hapa and Z-Bo. I'm not for removing Jay from the list but I'm going to follow Wbg and you on this one. @ Z-Bo I'm gonna be seriously concerned about you if you don't find a mafia player today. | ||
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On December 13 2012 20:48 Palmar wrote: That's a loaded threat towards Z-Bo. I don't like it. Well, I'm expecting him to deliver. I like his town playstyle and he totally nailed thrawn in the last Mario Mini. I liked his cases so far but I want him to nail scum. I should expect the same from marv and you but I'm just more familiar with Z-Bo. Your post with the syntax compilation was strange. People have also been counting the number of smileys I have in average in my scum and town games. Why do I provoke reactions like this ? | ||
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On December 13 2012 20:53 Clarity_nl wrote: WHY DO YOU SAY THIS RIGHT AFTER CALLING ME TOWN, BAFFLES MY MIND. You find it intiguing?!?! Can we just lynch this fucker. lol he was talking to me ^^ | ||
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On December 13 2012 20:52 Palmar wrote: I also find it intriguing you never once addressed Adam, yet you have 93 instances of his name in your filter (including inside quotes). You directly interacted with both Tunkeg and Jay. You also attempted to counter-wagon Adam's lynch using both of them as targets. I was persuaded that jay and Tunkeg were mafia yesterday and far less sure about Adam. The lack of interactions with Adam could be explained because I was a bit wary of the debears/Adam interactions and didn't want to step in. After, I went sleeping and Adam went lurking. I didn't feel the need to interact with him yesterday, that would be my best explanation. | ||
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On December 13 2012 21:14 Palmar wrote: So why are you lying? Did you simply forget that you not only stepped in, you figuratively waded in yelling at debears repeatedly for his read on Adam? Or is there something more malicious to it? I sincerely wonder, because I'm not 100% sure you're scum, but it makes no sense for you to lie about what you did, from neither alignment, but it doesn't make you look good. I forgot about these posts... Yeah, at that time, I was under the impression that debears was exaggerating in his analisys of Adam's posts. | ||
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On December 13 2012 21:51 Palmar wrote: Isn't that exactly what I'm doing?? I'm just in no rush to wagon it up, we still got plenty of time. I'm still town though... I honestly think that there are people looking worse than me, and maybe actually mafia on top of that. Did you read my last contributions ? | ||
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On December 13 2012 09:12 wherebugsgo wrote: no, fuck you. go read my posts. kill tunkeg BL and VE and consider killing Palmar if his reads still suck ass. I'm totally up to follow WBG legacy. My tentative scumteam rightnow would be a Tunkeg, BL and VE. | ||
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On December 13 2012 18:30 Bluelightz wrote: Lemme point out some stuff in the game: Clarity has been pushing me by asking people for their opinion on his supposedly good case. Then, he only gives additional information when asked (Look at Bluelightz meta). Then events on the night correspond with the best chances for me getting lynched, debears the person that opposed my lynch the most is supposedly shot. Lastly, has he actually responded to my response? does he give a fuck about me than just "Oh he's scum, ignore everything. My case has to be right" Hey, guys, I think I found the reason why debears was NKed by the mafia. He was the only one standing in front of a BL mislynch... How could I have been so blind to this obvious truth ? BL is totally getting framed ! Or not ? On December 12 2012 14:29 debears wrote: and I better add Djo and BL to my possible naughty list | ||
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On December 13 2012 23:48 Clarity_nl wrote: Ehhh, that's heavy WIFOM and you know it Djo. I know, I was being sarcastic, I'm totally up for a BL lynch today. Do you have any ideas for a possible scumteam ? | ||
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I have no problem with a VE lynch as well at first glance. I need to put better thought in it though... | ||
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I think this game is hard because there is a general lack of involvement of the players. I must admit that I'm not helping with my play so far but you should notice that I'm at least a little more concerned about this game than some other players. I thought debears was exaggerating yesterday about Adam at first. I had only played with town Adam (and not an exceptional one in Chrono Trigger Mafia) so far but I had already been fooled by scum debears. It was easier for me to interact with debears than to interact with Adam. | ||
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On December 14 2012 06:24 Hapahauli wrote: @ Tunkeg Why do you find people going after Clarity a scumtell? It's certainly proves stupidity, but not scumminess. This post is not addressed to me but I think I have a good point to make here. It's not a scumtell if they don't use this stupidity to prevent us from reading them by avoiding contributing in another way than a stupid tunneling. For example, in Mario Mini, I've been tunneling BH for a very long time against simple logic (and speculating a lot) to avoid contributing anything else. I have no problem with jay and VE going after Clarity of they really believe if they are mafia but I want them to show interest in the other lynch candidates and open themselves to discussion. In the case of VE, it is clear for me that is fixation on Clarity is not natural. First of all, he has failed to provide an extensive case agaonst Clarity to convince us that Clarity is scum. He is just speculating that Clarity has to be the ScumVig, that's what is allowing him to not partocipate in any other discussion. There is mafia motivation for retarded tunnels. Now the question is to know if VE is being dumb on purpose or not. Given his approach of the subject (speculating side), he is doing it on purpose for me right now. That's why he is mafia in my eyes. @ VE If by any chance you are town, you have to keep it simple. The simplest explanation is that Clarity is a town Vig. You should get off your horses and try to find real mafia. | ||
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On December 14 2012 02:27 Z-BosoN wrote: @Djodref You bring an interesting point regarding Tunkeg's "shying away" from Palmar. It's additional fluff for him not to actually scumhunt. I don't understand this passage, though, where you are calling it a scumslip: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=69#1361 Can you elaborate? @ Z-Boson On December 13 2012 00:36 Tunkeg wrote: Well, there are some seriously dumb people playing this game. If they happened to roll jk they need to be told what to do. For me, this totally could be a scumslip. Who he is talking about ? How does he know who is actually dumb (potential jks) and who is just playing dumb on purpose (potential mafia players) ? It could be easily explained if he had extra info on players alignment, if he is mafia for example. Honestly, I wouldn't have worried so much about this post if Tunkeg hadn't totally shied away from Palmar when he started to ask questions about it. I could totally see a town player post like this but his reaction feels forced. On December 13 2012 00:45 Tunkeg wrote: Nah, its the same people I have called dumb earlier. Maybe they haven't noticed or forgot. Don't want to insult them more, they might just not do as told to spite me. Like, seriously, what the fuck is that kind of line of thinking ? Why the JK would like to listen to Tunkeg at the first place ? Why would he be emotional ? And now I'm going to speculate a little. Let's assume that Palmar is town (likely) and that the mafia was planning to mislynch WBG today (also likely imo), they totally needed Palmar alive. But how would you explain that town Palmar is still alive ? He had to be jailed. At least, that's why I don't see any contradiction with a scum Tunkeg and him asking the JK to jail Palmar. | ||
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On December 14 2012 09:48 thrawn2112 wrote: eh, i might go for tunkeg as well I'm gonna do a re-read through of d1 then post thoughts on boson/djo/tunk unless I find something that convinces me not to. I don't have interest in any of the lynches outside of those people. @ thrawn Like, not even BL ? This guy doesn't even have a scumread at the moment... | ||
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On December 14 2012 10:49 jaybrundage wrote: Yea thx for telling me what im doing. I think its hilarious when people do that. Regarding me not mentioning adam before i voted him. NO FUCKING KIDDING. I voted him because I didn't want a no lynch to occur. I didn't pull a bullshit case out my ass, because I didn't have one. I didn't know what his alignment was and I stated as much. ROFL if this is your case on me its shit. @ Jay Why can you even admit that it makes you look bad ? How can we tell the difference between a bus and this ? You cannot blame Vivax for voicing suspicions towards you for this point. I know has tried to derailed Adam's lynch and I know it makes me look bad. I don't find your reaction very much town. For example, your case against me was valid and I've tried to address it to show you that my actions were town motivated (because I'm town ).I don't tink Vivax brought up shit with this point and I find you over reacting. But I still think VE, BL and Tunkeg all look worse than you at the moment Why | ||
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On December 14 2012 09:53 Djodref wrote: @ Z-Boson For me, this totally could be a scumslip. Who he is talking about ? How does he know who is actually dumb (potential jks) and who is just playing dumb on purpose (potential mafia players) ? It could be easily explained if he had extra info on players alignment, if he is mafia for example. Honestly, I wouldn't have worried so much about this post if Tunkeg hadn't totally shied away from Palmar when he started to ask questions about it. I could totally see a town player post like this but his reaction feels forced. Like, seriously, what the fuck is that kind of line of thinking ? Why the JK would like to listen to Tunkeg at the first place ? Why would he be emotional ? And now I'm going to speculate a little. Let's assume that Palmar is town (likely) and that the mafia was planning to mislynch WBG today (also likely imo), they totally needed Palmar alive. But how would you explain that town Palmar is still alive ? He had to be jailed. At least, that's why I don't see any contradiction with a scum Tunkeg and him asking the JK to jail Palmar. @ Tunkeg I really would like you to tell me who are the "seriously dumb people" in this game. Could you precise if they are dumb town or dumb scum ? | ||
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On December 14 2012 11:04 jaybrundage wrote: Ironic then how Tunkeg said how the very same response made me look more townie and he changed his view of me from scummy to neutral. Opinions, Opinions are different you are. I dont think i over reacted at all I think people over react to caps lock. Simply put he doesn't have a case against me. Okay I guess. I didn't remember that Vivax had his vote on you... By the way, you don't have a case against Clarity neither. | ||
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Vivax argument is not bad. Saying his opinion dffers from Tu.keg is not a good argument to address it properly. Anyway, thats not important now. Your vote is what is important ! Where is your case against Clarity ? | ||
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Can you make me a list with your main points against me ? @ thrawn Could you do the same ? What would be your tentative scteam ? | ||
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But I still thi.k that my previous point for a town munke is valid. Hapa, I appreciaye your read on me but I would like you to find scum. Honestly I think that BL ahas the least cjances to flip scum among Bl Tu.keg and Ve. Would you like to lynch VE today ? | ||
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On December 14 2012 11:39 jaybrundage wrote: I already have. I'll look thru your new posts later and see if they still support you being scum. When you are done, I would really appreciate a list witb your main pints against me. You are puahing for a mislynch now so you netter come with good reasons. | ||
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On December 14 2012 12:00 Hapahauli wrote: I"ve made my reads really really clear. VE's giving me more of a dumb town vibe than malicious scum. I want to lynch Bluelightz, but Tunkeg is rapidly climbing my list and is a clear #2. VE going after Clarity reminds me of me going after BH in Mario. Plus his case boils down to few posts only and speculation. On top of that, I don't think that VE could be that misguided. | ||
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I have only played with him replacing as scum. He was making sense in our scumQT in the Looney game. He also said that people were going to expect him to deliver. But my main point against him is that he is acting in a very similar way to what I did in the Mario game. | ||
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I like your case but I still feel better about a Tunkeg lynch because Z-Bo has at least shown some effort in scumhunting. Also I don't see it as necessarily scummy that he thought that debears was exaggerating. Do you think that Tunkeg and Z-Bo could be in a scumteam together ? How do you feel about a Tunkeg lynch ? I'm waiting for Z-Bo defense with great interest ! | ||
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On December 14 2012 14:35 thrawn2112 wrote: CPU = can ok thanks, could you waut for me to access a computer ? I don't want to review all this from my phone. | ||
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@ VE So is this what you have to contribute after catching up with the thread ? You are still failing to convince me that Clarity is scum and that you are town. | ||
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On December 14 2012 14:43 thrawn2112 wrote: Same thing for me actually, I'm sitting in a movie theater I'm at work so it is a bit less comfortable | ||
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Also Z bo was pushing Tunkeg D1, that's why I asked you if you thought that they could be scum together. Tunkeg is the most likely to flip scum. | ||
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On December 14 2012 14:57 thrawn2112 wrote: Boson, who would u lynch out of thrown and djo? Djo who would you lynch out of thrown and boson? Both of you seem to be reading town on the other and myself, I don't get it What the fuck are you doing with that kind of posts ? Why do you keep mentioning yourself as a third person ? Is kush hydraing with you in this game ? I don't want to lynch any of you. I don't see why you are convinced that one of us have to be mafia and I really don't think so at the moment. If I was forced to chose between you and Z Bo, I would lynch z bo, but I doubt that it would ever happen. | ||
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On December 14 2012 14:51 VisceraEyes wrote: Honestly Djo, I was composing a post and checked the thread before posting it to see if there were any ninjas and in a rush to find that gif, completely spaced my whole huge post was in my clipboard. OMG this game is so frustrating. XD I'll rewrite it, never fear. I just saw that post by Zbos and lol'd. He was someone that was in my post, so I thought it relevant totally forgetting I hadn't posted yet. God I'm an idiot. I feel you... It happens to me from time to time. I hope that you are going to address Tunkeg in that post. | ||
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I don't think that Z-Bo lapsus is relevant by the way | ||
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On December 14 2012 22:24 Palmar wrote: I don't like the fact people aren't sheeping my Djodref case. It's not like your case his bad, your points are valid but they don't necessarily point to me being a mafia. I look bad but I'm town, and you have to find the mafia somewhere else. How did you feel while reading Tunkeg answering you when asking who was seriously dumb. Don't you ask yourself how he could be so sure that you were town and WBG scum ? If Tunkeg is scum, his play was preparing a WBG mislynch on D2. If Tunkeg is town, he seems way overconfident for somebody that don't really interact with people on the thread. | ||
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Tunkeg, can you answer my previous question please ? Who was seriously dumb and a possible JK ? | ||
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On December 14 2012 22:40 Tunkeg wrote: Every player is a possible JK. The ones I meant with serious dumb players was the ones listed in my reads thread, thrawn and vivax. You are probably seriously dumb as well. Why does it matter? Yeah but Vivax was listed as possible scum in your list. I don't think it's possible to have the same player as possible scum and possible JK. My point is that your read on Vivax in your list was fake. You know his alignment, you know he could be JK. | ||
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I was out with some friends so I'm slightly drunk and all I'm happy to see that we are going towards a Tunkeg lynch ! I'll be around for one hour or so, please send my your questions and stuff ! I'll get some sleep after that but I'll be sure to wake up 2 hours before the deadline. jay, I'm waiting for a list of your main points against me after you are checking my filter by yourself. I miss some Clarity and some Hapahauli in this thread  | ||
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Hello Clarity ! | ||
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On December 15 2012 02:36 VisceraEyes wrote: I missed you Djodref. Hello VE ! I've seen that you had pointed my scum play in the Looney Game to Palmar. But I was still newbie scum in this game. I think I was playing better in the Mario Mini, if only I could have put the effort to pretend to scumhunt. Anyway, I guess that I still should feel different in this game. Nevertheless, I appreciate your gesture, regardless of your alignment. Did you carefully read Z-Bo defense to thrawn case ? He is pretty straightforward in it. I really don't think he is the best lynch for today. He might be all over the place, but he is maybe trying to figure this game out, like any townie should do. Would you mind lynch Tunkeg today ? | ||
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Yeah, so we should sheep Palmar into lynching me ? Huh, no thanks... How could you be wanting to lynch me when you didn't push my lynch all game ? Unless I should count all the times that you called me scummy without trying to really figure my alignment out... Where is the case you should have brought against me today ? | ||
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On December 15 2012 03:15 Tunkeg wrote: I don't give a shit what you do. You are still overrated as fuck, and you are still nothing but a punk ass kid, with a bigger mouth than sense... Did you consider that he could be a mafia player pushing a mislynch on you ? Noooo.... The level of OMGUS you are reaching is far over 9000 ! I think we can safely say that Tunkeg is scum and that marv is town from their latest interactions... | ||
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On December 15 2012 03:25 Vivax wrote: I'm talking about Tunkeg obviously. Lynch time is getting close, and this isn't gonna be an easy one. I've previously stated for what reasons I thought he's town. Then I saw this mistake, or lie or whatever when going through his first posts. I've thrown it out like that cause I need feedback, feedback about the weight of such a thing in spite of players like BL or jay, who either 1. don't do anything I find useful or townie or 2. post stuff that looks so bad that it looks like a too easy lynch for others to actually care about it. Makes me think of the game where I chose the guy looking slightly scummy instead of the guy trolling the shit out of us (grush) and turned out wrong. I don't know, you should maybe consider that mafia players are supposed to take care a little of what they are posting. If you need something more, you can see the way Tunkeg interacted with marv. Nothing at all until the insults... Moreover, a town Tunkeg should at least be paranoid about people voting him. So why insisting so much on VE ? VE doesn't even vote him right now... and Hapa is scum by association with VE in Tunkeg fantasy land | ||
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On December 15 2012 03:43 Vivax wrote: Let's say I'm not not gonna vote for him if we need a majority, but I do so without being sure. Neither do I read this exchange as strictly scummy. Marv persuaded Palmar, other than that a Tunkeg lynch isn't certain yet, so I don't see why he would throw the game away already. Maybe he's just town and mentally masturbating to the prospect of seeing marv and Palmar turn out wrong on him. Consider him a null read I'll vote for if necessary.For now I keep it where it is. Still it would mean that he has a town read on marv. One more thing that he didn't try to figure out. | ||
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I propose to give some slack to BL so he can post in a 'safe' environment. So we could read him a bit ^^ | ||
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First time to see a town player reacting this way. I need to reassess my reads... | ||
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Clarity was obviously a blue Vig by the way. | ||
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I've been inactive lately because it's the week-end and Christmas is coming soon. It appears that I'm a good lynch candidate for today so I'll try to fight my mislynch the best I can. I also think I have a good grasp at who are the remaining mafia players by elimination. I'm not going to focus too much on my defense today but I would like you to try to be as much as objective as you can when you read my posts. Don't get confirmation bias get into you because I'm going to flip town at the end of the day and you are still going to have to find the remaining mafia players. I require everyone to make a clear and concise post giving the own reasons they have to vote me. If you are town, you might look bad after my mislynch if you sheep me mindlessly. If you are mafia, we are going to show that you are full of crap. For example, let's look at jaybrundage latest vote on me. He gave no reasoning of his own for this vote. I've asked him several times to make a list of the main points he has against me (after he was supposed to check my filter again) but he has failed to provide it so far. It's also worth noticing that he never delivered his Clarity case when he was voting Clarity. Jaybrundage vote right now is unacceptable and I encourage you to pressure him (because I'm not in a good position to pressure anyone today) to give his own reasons. I'm going to give you my town reads in my next post. | ||
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I have already explained my town reads on Marv and Vivax in this post + Show Spoiler + On December 13 2012 17:56 Djodref wrote: Disclaimer: Important Read Post WBG beautiful bluff So, there is something important that some of you may have missed. Just before being shot, WBG did this: and then At this point, only the mafia team could have known that he was lying about his alignment. When I read this, I thought, "ok, bugs was really scum, Palmar imb4, gg mafia, time to concede noaw". So I think we can get very valuable information from the reactions of the people present in the thread to WBG's last move. Town players were going to react like me, I mean that they are going to fully believe Bugs. Mafia players were going to feel awkward in front of this fakeclaim, and maybe avoiding participating at this point. Marv For example, marv is certainly town, due to this post, which I cannot see as anything but genuine. This is the reaction to expect from town marv. @ VE What do you make of this one ? Vivax Vivax reactions look also quite townie. I think I was wrong about him. He looks to have a carefree town style. Please check all page 65 to see Vivax's reaction as he gets uber-sniped and the his WBG's eulogy. Palmar? I'm not so sure what to think about Palmar's reactions. I like this one Because he is anwering to a post that even wasn't addressed to him at the first place. But this one a just pure back tracking. But, still, I don't see scum Palmar posting this, if he knew that WBG were going to flip town. But still, posting this after flooding us with "Bugs is scum" posts is quite bad. I don't know what to think of this post. Another thing speaking for a town Palmar is this post I don't think that scum Palmar would have forgot who was NKed. So, all in all, still leaning town on Palmar but I don't think he took this game very seriously until now... @ Palmar Could you start to play this game more seriously ? Like reading the thread for real and stuff ? By the way, I'm town, so I recommend you to reassess your reads because you are going to look bad if you keep lynching townies. Clarity All in all, I have a strong town read on Clarity. I don't see any reason to doubt his claim because it would have been stupid for the mafia to kill a potential mislynch. His reactions before and after the flip look really genuine as well. Anyway, I already had a town read on Clarity before all this so, yeah, Clarity is Vig. @ jay Don't be stupid, don't waste your time and ours, don't write this Clarity's case and come back to your senses. Thoughts anyone ? Do you think it is far-fetched ? I think it's quite reasonable... @ Hapahauli Why didn't you comment on WBG's confession just before the flip ? I believe that Vivax is town. His whole interaction with Clarity looks genuine, and the general feeling I got from his posts is that he is carefree. He doesn't really care when people are suspicious of him, which shows a townie mindset. He might be wrong sometimes and also stupid, but he that's because he is spammy and all over the place. Even if he has some suspicious posts wrt Adam, his general posting style indicates that he is town. Plus you have this post + Show Spoiler [blackborad] + On December 11 2012 03:07 Vivax wrote: Here, I have some explications on a notepad advertising rectal gel. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/k9gNk.png) That reminds me that you've pressured thrawn a little at 10:18, marv, but quickly lost interest. So what's your opinion on him? Marv is town because he convinced Palmar that his lynch was better than Palmar's lynch. As I'm town, I don't see why marv would have pushed Tunkeg lynch over mine if he was mafia. He has shown that he was really trying to figure me out and him doubting that I was the best lynch yesterday shows that he really cares about this game and who is getting lynched. Moreover, his reaction to WBG bluff looks really genuine, as well as his interactions with Palmar. I have also a strong town read on thrawn. Him derping at the beginning at the beginning of the game, the general tone of his posts, his activity level, his case against Z-Bo, all this is indicating a town thrawn. Moreover, thrawn has almost no experience as a mafia player, and he was pretty obvious, detached and lurky, in the Mario Mini Mafia game. I believe that Z-Boson is town, but this read is less strong than the other ones. His defense against thrawn's case just sounds right. He has shown some good scumhunting and good cases. I would like him to invest himself more in this game because he is a good town player who usually find the mafia. I believe that Hapa is town. I know you don't like Munk-E behavior but I don't think that a mafia player would blatantly go after a town WBG like that, if he knew WBG reputation. Moreover, Hapa knows my meta pretty well and he has correctly identified me as town and defended me, when there is no mafia benefit to do that, given that I'm a potential mislynch here. I'm really curious to see what he is going to do today though So, by elimination, I have the remaining scum in jay, VE, Bluelightz and grush. No wonder that Clarity has been NKed ^^ I'm going to present extensive cases against all of them today. | ||
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Z-Bo, what do you think about Vivax reaction to WBG's bluff ? I would like to know if anyone has a town read on jay ! | ||
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On December 16 2012 21:09 Vivax wrote: You know, your arguments about marv are that he pushed Tunkegs lynch over yours, and that he replied to WBGs bluff. I think putting yourself as obvious town isn't correct, you should assume that noone knows you're town when you argue in this situation. Also, you like spewing around "I'm town" a lot, it's getting inflationated. I know I'm town and we know for sure that Tunkeg was town. Why would a scum marv pushing a town lynch over another one ? I didn't have time to make the cases this afternoon. I'm getting to it now... And, yeah, I'm town, and you're wrong about me. I'll keep saying it until the end because it's just the thruth. | ||
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On December 16 2012 21:15 thrawn2112 wrote: djo's first question to me was: What on earth is the possible town purpose behind this question? I didn't understand it at the time and I still don't. His next statemen about me (same post) was this: That looks like a town read... doesn't say town exactly but it directly goes back on the original premise that djo gave for me being scum. Lets look into all possible worlds where djo is town, thinks thrawn is town, and asks if thrawn read the op before making the claim: You are reading to much into this. I wanted to know if you knew that everybody was going to take this as a blatant fakeclaim or not. | ||
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Palmar was wrong about WBG and was wrong about me as well... | ||
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Viscera Eyes Being stupid on purpose I'm convinced that VE is scum. My case is going to boil down to the following points
Part I --- VE and his scumreads Vivax On December 11 2012 03:18 VisceraEyes wrote: *snip* "But VE, who would you like to lynch today?" Calm down bish I'm getting there. Based on what I'm seeing, I think Vivax and Palmar could be scum together. First of all, Vivax has this problem with my interest level? Goes so far as to throw times of posts into the mix to appear that he's carefully watching the thread...except, Palmar has shown that he not only doesn't care about the game, he doesn't care about his own alignment in the game. Unfortunately, I've seen Palmar do this as town, so I'm not putting much stock into Palmar's end of it. But Vivax....Vivax is in here actively trying to put suspicion on me for having a townread on thrawn. Literally. I even explained in detail why I thought thrawn was joking, which by the way, he was by his own tongue. I think Vivax is trying to fake contribution. I think he's trying to appear active while doing nothing of value. He claims that in spite of his "analysis" of my actions, he'd STILL vote for thrawn, based on the stale-ass fake-claim. I'm calling bullshit. ##Vote: Vivax This is D1. VE is voting Vivax for a weak reason. Anyway, he says then this On December 11 2012 10:51 VisceraEyes wrote: *snip* Vivax Doesn't Look Scummy Screw you buddy, yes he does. I'll show you. *snip* Does he ever mention Vivax again after this ? No. Not at all. Not a single time. He drops him completely. Even when Z-Bo and me posted case against him. No interest in Vivax anymore. Jay After defending Jay at first against Clarity's case. VE, following the thread mood, posts his own case against Jay. He doesn't push a jay lynch. Instead, he consolidates on Adam with no reason. On December 12 2012 09:30 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm willing to vote jay over Adam. But he keeps voting Adam, even when I'm proposing a counter wagon on Jay instead. Anyway, the most interesting part is that he drops Jay totally after that. On December 15 2012 04:40 VisceraEyes wrote: That's the hard question I didn't study for :/ I fell asleep writing my Djodref analysis last night and both Bz and jay were on the list of filters I wanted to get to. Jay has rubbed me the wrong way all day and now he's pushing candidates I like and without fear of going against town sentiment...need to filter. Blue is...hard to remember much of. I know I didn't like your initial case but I can't recall like anything of his play since. Need to filter. And I'm phoneposting. So yeah...have to get back with you. Did he forget that he had jay as scum or what ? Please also note his lack of interactions with Jay through the game. Z-Bo So, after him going totally derp against Clarity, VE is suddenly attracted by a Z-Bo lynch. Out of nowhere. Does he do a single thing to get his lynch. Not at all. He lets Tunkeg gets lynched. My conclusion is that VE doesn't really care about who is getting lynched. He produces some cases from time to time but there is no follow-up, no interactions with the people he made the cases against to figure their alignments. He doesn't case because he is mafia. Part II --- Discrediting marv for freep Here we go. VE has stated at least twice that he is thinking that marv is scum. Does he confront marv on his reads ? Does he go after marv with a case ? Is he serious about it or is this pure discrediting ? On December 10 2012 10:46 VisceraEyes wrote: @ marv What do you think about thrawn? Your first post on the subject seemed to indicate suspicion, while your second seemed to elude to a more "stupid town" read. Which is it? And why are you playing like you don't give a shit? On December 12 2012 08:18 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm starting to think marv scum. Marvy baby you scum? Great job ! If marv is really town, as I think, he is spreading suspicions to undermine the positions he could take. Part III --- Being stupid on purpose VE went after Clarity D2. He has been passionate about him. Clarity necessarily was the scumvig. I've asked him several times to write a case against Clarity to show that he was scum. He has failed to do it. Scum doesn't want to contribute for real in the thread. Scum wants to tell you a story, a believable story. Like this story of a stubborn and stupid players going against reasonable and simple logic to tunnel a townie, using speculation and bad arguments. On December 13 2012 18:13 VisceraEyes wrote: I missed that in the hullabaloo. 1) That means nothing because this is a semi-closed setup. There could be more than one town vigi, so the counterclaim thing is not relevant. There's little risk in a scum Vigi claiming a shot he ACTUALLY took because we have no way of knowing if they're scum or town. 2) Why would Mafia vigi one of the stronger town players? So he can't defend himself and avoid the lynch? Maybe turn it around on one of them? Scum removing a vet from the game in a NON LYNCH situation is actually extremely strong. I don't believe a single instant that VE was serious about Clarity. He didn't push his lynch with a real case. He just kept saying over and over again that he was the scumVig. The mafia motivation is clear here. You go pants on head, nobody can get a clear read out of this. You avoid to contributing for real, so you don't out yourself or your team. VE is not stupid, Clarity's filter was really looking town. There was not way he was the scumVig. Part IV --- following the thread trends People start voting jay D1 ? Let's make a case against him ! Jay is being stupid and goes after Clarity ? Let's do the same ! Thrawn made a case against Z-Bo ? Hey, me too ! Adam is a serious lynch candidate ? Let's vote him over jay ! Tunkeg and Djo are lynch candidates ? On December 14 2012 03:44 VisceraEyes wrote: Palmar, as long as it's not me, I'll vote for whoever you tell me to. Clearly no one is interested in lynching the scumVig, so I'm trusting YOU to find his teammate for us to lynch today. For what it's worth, I'd lynch into Tunkeg, Djo if I couldn't lynch Clarity. Djo for his attempts at counterwagoning the scum lynch, and Tunkeg for his interaction with Bugs. It's clear that Bugs was not going to let Tunkeg go, and I'd bet anything that's why scum killed him. But like I said, my vote is yours. I'm proven bad this game. Fix it. Please note that he defends me shortly after On December 15 2012 00:28 VisceraEyes wrote: Palmar, I was scum with Djodref in Looney Lynching and his play in that game was much more timid and submissive - his response to pressure was completely different and he repeatedly played the newbie card. Just throwin that out there in case you lied and are actually reading my posts. Comments ? Anyone ? | ||
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On December 16 2012 22:05 Bluelightz wrote: WHY HELLO WE HAVE FOUND A LIE! (Considering we have no solid info like a DT check or shit) I'm town, Palmar is dead. He thought I was mafia. He was wrong about me. You'll see unless you know it already. Just start to contribute for real, ok ? | ||
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On December 16 2012 22:25 Vivax wrote: Thrawn, I disagree on Boson and hapa. Can you drop them for a second and assume that your townread on marv might be wrong while going through his filter?Some more analysis of VE would be appreciated aswell, he actually was the first to speculate a scum vigi, but trying to dump it on clarity aswell...And quickly retreating when it didn't gain interest. Probably the best case against djo so far: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=81#1613 This post by Palmar would actually be reason enough to vote for djo, although Palmar refers to it as policy lynch, for lying and trying to stop the lynch. Maybe djo has only been sloppy, but he really had no interactions with Adam I actually have no clue if I should vote for him. I have to reconsider VE, marv, BL and jay aswell. Jay going so superlurky lately and voting like an opportunist stinks quite. @ Vivax Honestly, you shouldn't care so much about marv. If he is town, he is certainly going to be killed soon. If he is scum, he is going to bus his team mates at one time or another. What do you think ? Also, his interactions with Palmar are really genuine, and his reaction to WBG bluff as well. I don't know. I'm glad that you want to reconsider today's lynch. | ||
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On December 16 2012 22:34 thrawn2112 wrote: I recently went read through the voting thread several times and one of the things I picked up was that marv's adam vote doesn't look like a scum vote. I also liked his read dump during the night cycle even if I didn't agree with everything in it. VE is.... hard to talk about. He, bl, and grush are the people we have the least information about. When I go through his filter I never find anything that convinces me he's scum. when he brought up the possibility of adam's vig claim hinting that clarity could be a scum vig I actually got a town read from it because I had the exact same thought when I was going back through adams' posts. I didn't mention it because thinking about things from town clarity's point of view made more sense, but VE got some town points from me for that. What about how he drops jay after wanting to lynch him during D1 ? And Vivax ? Why didn't he try to switch the vote to jay with me ? Why didn't he bring a serious case against Clarity ? Did you feel like he was really trying to weigh in like you when you wanted to lynch Z-Bo ? | ||
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What is the common things between these people ? WBG Tunkeg Palmar The are town, the are vets, they are dead, they wanted to lynch VE. On December 13 2012 09:12 wherebugsgo wrote: no, fuck you. go read my posts. kill tunkeg BL and VE and consider killing Palmar if his reads still suck ass. Tunkeg spoiler "In other word follow your leader, Palmar, even if he dropped the ball on this one, and got talked around by the most overrated player on TL Mafia. He won't do it again this game. Follow him for the rest of the time he is here. Also lynch VE and Hapa." Palmar On December 16 2012 09:37 Palmar wrote: VE may be a better 1st lynch than djodref On December 16 2012 09:40 Palmar wrote: Due to the how certain it is he's scum. [/QUOTE] | ||
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BlueLightz The fact that we have failed to lynch this guys when he has given absolutely nothing to make us think that he is town is speaking against him. How come that it is not possible for us to agree on lynching this guy ? BlueLightz has shown absolutely no scumhunting, absolutely no interest on who was getting lynch. Too obvious to be scum ? The answer is no, we have to get rid of him... Here is a compilation of BL's best quotes On December 12 2012 01:45 Bluelightz wrote: Losing confidence in his lynch, so I switched to Adam because it will probably be the lynch (barring any new cases while I sleep) and because of the reasons I have listed. On December 12 2012 20:40 Bluelightz wrote: I'm fine if there's a consensus on bugs. On December 15 2012 09:02 Bluelightz wrote: Frankly I don't care when I do participate. My challenge is just not getting mislynched while looking at scum. Note that he doesn't want to get lynched first... On December 15 2012 09:09 Bluelightz wrote: Ah fuck this conversation. So, ##Vote Tunkeg. Tunk doesn't really need consolidation or any of that but I don't care. Can't give my own reasons on this one (complete sheep). On December 04 2012 23:06 Bluelightz wrote: /in IM BACK BROS :D How could you lynch me over this guy ? | ||
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BL has to be lynched at some point, and he has good chances to be scum (elimination process). I'm less sure about jay. I can bring up a case against him if you ask me to, but I would like the focus to stay on VE and BL. I should also on the spotlight, and I'm ready to defend myself "becs et ongles". I strongly request anyone voting me to give a short list of their main points against me. You cannot get lazy and vote me as a mindless sheep or for bad reasons. Check my filter again and ask yourself if I'm really mafia. Please ! ##Vote VE | ||
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On December 17 2012 04:02 grush57 wrote: Hey! ##Vote: Djordef VOTE HIM NOW EVERYONE. GOGOGOGO @ grush I request you to give me your list with your main points against me that would justify your vote on me. I would appreciate to see original thoughts. | ||
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It's my wet dream Could you realize it for me ? | ||
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On December 17 2012 08:40 Vivax wrote: It's a possibility. I could imagine a 2 shot vigi + rolecop setup by now, since we didn't see any roleblocks N2, that against a Veteran, a JK and a vigi. Maybe we didn't see any roleblock N2 because the JK is dead ? Did you consider this possibility ? @ marv What do you think of my case against VE ? | ||
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I really want you to make your list. | ||
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Come on, grush, it's once in a lifetime ! | ||
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On December 17 2012 09:46 jaybrundage wrote: Marv your seeming to forget. That after adam got lynched. I wrote a case up on djo. Which has a lot of the same points as palmars case. Lets killl him its been too long since we killed scum. Yeah, you also said once that you were going to review my filter and you never made a constructive comment on me since. I'm just asking for a list with your own main points against me. On December 14 2012 11:39 jaybrundage wrote: I already have. I'll look thru your new posts later and see if they still support you being scum. So, what about my new posts ? By the way, why are you buddying with marv ? Could I have your reasoning for why you think he is town ? | ||
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On December 17 2012 09:46 jaybrundage wrote: Marv your seeming to forget. That after adam got lynched. I wrote a case up on djo. Which has a lot of the same points as palmars case. Lets killl him its been too long since we killed scum. How is that not buddying ? How long has it been since you made a case against anyone ? How can you be so sure that I'm mafia ? You didn't read my latest posts but you know already that they are going to be scummy ? I provided my reasoning for deriving a town read on marv. I've asked people comments on that post, nobody really cared. I'm not sure that you really read my filter, jay. | ||
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On December 17 2012 10:06 jaybrundage wrote: All my old points still stand. I havent made a post about your new posts. But im sure they are pretty scummy too. Why do you say im buddying with marv. I never said he was town. You would know if he was town tho cause your scum right nice slip. You never said he was town yet you are looking for his support to lynch me. How is that ? You know I'm scum but you didn't read my filter in details or you would have seen that I gave a nice reasoning to derive a town read on marv. I request you to make a list of your main points against me. I want you to read my filter twice, one time with your scum confirmation bias goggles that you have right now, one time with townie goggle. Come back with a case after this one ! | ||
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On December 17 2012 10:21 Z-BosoN wrote: @marv It's interesting you mention Hapa. I also noted his change of mind on VE, and Hapa's usually not one to sheep like that. I look forward to his defense. @Djo I like how you are actually trying. One question though, why post a BL case right after making a case on your main suspect? @ Z-Bo Because it would be depressing for me to get lynched over this guy. And, yeah, I'm actually trying to avoid another mislynch. I'm pissed off with jay and grush because they don't put a real effort in this game... Also I want to help town to identify the scum on my wagon. | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote jay | ||
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On December 17 2012 10:25 Z-BosoN wrote: Do you think BL is scum? Yes, but I would rather say that he has good chances to be scum. He has shown an anti-town behavior for a long time now and we still didn't manage to lynch him. I think it's because his lynch has been derailed some way or another by his teammate. He has done no scumhunting at all... By elimination, he has good chances to be scum. But I like VE's case better. What do you make of jay interactions with me ? Why did he fail to provide twice ? | ||
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-> not so strong, right ? Please notice how he ran away from the questions I've just asked him ! -> so who is more likely to be scum and town between him and me ? | ||
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On December 17 2012 11:19 jaybrundage wrote: Just to be clear i think it would b a mistake to lynch anyone but you;. Palmar wanted you dead for good reason. And Palmar wanted WBG dead. WBG was town. Palmar isn't always right. Are you trying to avoid your responsibility in your vote against me ? Why are you unable to bring a new case against me ? | ||
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On December 17 2012 11:53 jaybrundage wrote: I feel more confident in my Djodref lynch. I think his diverting attemps day 1. Also the crazy resistance to his lynch day 2 are likely cause he is mafia. Also Palmar was having trouble reading VE. Go read my filter and provide an extensive case on me. You know who was trying to attempt to divert Adam's lynch day 1 ? WBG wanted his Tunkeg lynch. WBG was town. Clarity wanted your lynch. Clarity was town. I wanted to lynch you or Tunkeg because I thought that you were more likely to flip scum than Adam. And there is some resistance for my lynch because there are actually some townie things in my filter. Did you read my latest posts ? Show me how they would serve my mafia agenda. I'm not going to let you lynch me without you having to post a case against me. | ||
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I hate to bring a WIFOM argument but What would prevent a scum Djodref from bussing Adam when it was clear that he was the today's lynch ? Nothing at all, it would have been very easy to bus him if I was his scummate. My behavior shows that I didn't know Adam's alignment. Pushing your top scumreads is townie. Your case against me is absolutely shit. You obviously didn't put in the effort to read my filter. | ||
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Aren't you supposed to be against taking dead people opinions into account ? I think that I've read something saying this somewhere. Could you enlighten me ? | ||
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On December 17 2012 12:14 Z-BosoN wrote: And why the hell are you taking into consideration ONE LINE of my post on VE? Someone who is your "top scumread" at that. No, I totally agree with you on VE. I'll try to find it back but it was something like "Z-Bo is going to yell at me for listening to the opinion of dead people" in an obsQT Do you or not ? | ||
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On December 17 2012 12:22 Z-BosoN wrote: That (obviously) is not a quote by me. That (obviously) does not represent my opinion (watch in mario obs qt how pissed I was that no one listened to my reads). That (obviously) is not alignment-indicative. What is your point? Okay, then, nevermind, I must have misunderstood what the guy was saying at that time or I don't remember correctly what he said. If that's not the case, then there is no point. | ||
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On December 17 2012 12:20 jaybrundage wrote: Z-bo right after Palmar says that. He then goes on to speculate if VE could be town. He wasnt as confident in that read as he put out. Regardless its not just Palmar's reasoning that I want to lynch Djodref. Hes been scummy for a while. Something that you have yet failed to prove. | ||
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I don't see anything new in here. Your case boils down to the fact that I've tried to derail Adam's lynch. I've already addressed this point and showed that it makes me more likely to be town than scum. I would like to see something new and original from you. | ||
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On December 17 2012 12:54 jaybrundage wrote: I'm not trying to convince you that your scum. I dont know why you expect me too. If anyone else has any comments on my case and the case I stole from Palmar lets hear it. I want you to realize that I'm not scum. If you are town, make a case against me, because you are going to look bad when I flip. If you are scum, just behave like you do right now. | ||
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On December 17 2012 19:03 Bluelightz wrote: Djordef's case is so dumb. 1.Why haven't we lynched him yet? Why the fuck is this in the case? 2.He has absolutely no scumhunting? OBJECTION!!! I have scumhunted but not absolutely no scumhunting 3.No attention to the lynch Yeah I'll sacrifice school because of attending the deadline for mafia 4.Quotes Bullshit because you didn't explain fuck. How come you always find the time to make some posts to defend yourself but never take the time to make a post with your reads and stuff ? Your behavior is anti-town, regardless of your alignment. | ||
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So where the fuck is he ? He has already defended me in the past but not today. I'm very disappointed and I'm also getting very suspicious because Hapa is very active in our other game, when he doesn't really need too. I think he ran away from marv questionning, and him not being here to defend me and stuff is quite suspicious. So, yeah, I wouldn't mind to consider Hapa as a lynch candidate for today. Why ? In Mario Mini, I had a embarrasing town read on Z-Bo so I went into lurking mode during his lynch. Please also note Hapa's reaction when WBG made his bluff ! No reaction. I had a town read on Munk-E for a WIFOM reason, and I'm starting to think I could be wrong at that time. So it would have been a great advantage to buddy me and keeping me alive for scum Hapa. Come my mislynch, and you have to disappear. | ||
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On December 17 2012 19:16 Bluelightz wrote: Because defending is much more easier than finding scum. What do you think of Hapa ? | ||
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On December 17 2012 19:36 Bluelightz wrote: From a quick skim, I can say that he post's a lot, but his post's are a lot of one-liners so a slight scum read on him. And would you lynch VE or me today ? | ||
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Disclaimer: Important post Reads Update I'm potentially today's mislynch so I'm very attentive to people behavior today regarding my lynch. I've pushed jay a lot to get him post a case against me. It turns out that he didn't care about his image when I'm going to flip. I think that he is a towntell because he seems to genuinely believe that I'm scum. I think that a scum jay would know my alignment and be a little more concerned by his image while lynching me. Hapa, on the opposite, is strangely not present in this game (when he totally could have been present, see his activity in the Witchcraft game) while I'm getting mislynched. I think that it's a pretty strong scumtell because you shouldn't let your townreads die when you are supposed to be concerned with town fate. Grush and BL are getting on my nerves, but there is nothing I can do for these ones. VE being totally absent is also a scumtell. In our Looney Game, he barely posted, he got modkilled in the Chrono Trigger Game and I don't like the fact that he is not here to defend himself at all. So, here is my reads update
Does anyone has a probem with this list ? I'm making them so we can discuss about it and figure this game out, ffs ! I don't appreciate the fact to be mislynched in such an inactive town... ##Unvote ##Vote VE | ||
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Hapa My absent buddy Here are the main points I'm going to bring in this Hapa case.
Part I --- Munk-E Here is the link to Munk-E filter (Munk-E). I recommend you to have a read of his posts to make your own opinion. On December 11 2012 01:44 Munk-E wrote: *snip* as for WBG, the more i think about it, the more I think he's more likely to be town. If he was scum, this play would either be to bus palmer if he's scum, which would be stupid and unnecessary, or to try to start a bandwagon on him if he's town, which would most likely be futile. He could be trying to appear to be an aggressive scumhunter, attacking harmless enemies though, so he seems town, but then again, aggressive scumhunting seems town. I see his logic now, but it is flawed. I highly doubt that all the scum were lurkers. So he is backtracking on WBG, calling his move on Palmar "aggressive scumhunting". This is bullshit. WBG's move was a poke to Palmar. Please also note his unwarranted comment on the lurkers. Another way of saying, "I'm a lurker, but I'm totally not mafia" when there was no reason to say something like this, nor anything from his filter showing that he had found scum in the active players. On December 12 2012 09:45 Munk-E wrote: Woah. Remember that we need 9 votes to lynch someone. With only a half hour left, it's probably too late to start a counter wagon. Even if jay seems more likely than adam, Adam is still worth your vote more. With 9 votes exactly on him, I'm worried that a last second band wagon gives any scum buddies he might have trying to bus him a legitimate reason to turn today into a no lynch. ##VOTE Adam4167 "Adam is still worth your vote more" -> lapsus ? "any scum buddies he might have trying to bus him a legitimate reason to turn today into a no lynch" -> shows that he think with a mafia mentality One more thing to note. Munk-E get some serious heat after Adam's lynch. He directly replaces out. We could lynch Hapa based on Munk-E's filter only Part II --- Active Lurking Hapa is active lurking. A good example is today. On December 17 2012 08:22 Hapahauli wrote: I have. Not enough time to devote to the game at the moment. I totally am coasting along, and I will be until tomorrow afternoon. I'm totes town though. On December 17 2012 08:26 Hapahauli wrote: I'm admitting to being busy, not scummy. I'll do my part before the lynch deadline. He is really busy with his other game. I'm not going to comment more because I'm also part of this game, just have a look here. You can notice that thrawn has made the effort to participate here. It's very strange to have him absent today when one of his town read (me), that he has defended multiple times, is going to get mislynched. Another example of Hapa active lurking can be found during WBG bluff. Not a single comment from him while WBG outed himself. Not a sign of joy or anything like this. And yet he was here. On December 13 2012 10:05 Hapahauli wrote: oh. well shit On December 13 2012 18:02 Hapahauli wrote: I thought WBG claimed scum, and I really didn't want any part of the conversation until the flip. I try to avoid kicking players while they're down - it's something I've done in the past, and I regret it alot. His explanation for it looks reasonable, but he didn't necessarily have to kick him down. Just a celebration post would have made him townie. Instead of that, we have -> active lurking. Part III --- My Buddy, except for today So, Hapa has me as town for quite a long time now. He has defended me for some times, so I guess that he has a pretty strong read on me. This is something I could expect from him, because he know my town meta and has helped me improved in this game. But this is a point he never brings up. Did you ask yourself how come Hapa was the only player in this game with a town read on me ? Does it really strike nobody that Hapa defending me totally serve a scum agenda, regardless of my alignment ? I was a player with a town read on Munk-E, so it is a great interest for him to keep me alive in this game, if he is scum. My biggest point for a scum Hapa is that he is not here to defend me today, convince people that somebody else has to be scum. You have to realize that his actions regarding my lynch for today makes him scum. Even if you end up lynching me, you have to lynch him. Anyway, here are Hapa stances on me. On December 12 2012 13:01 Hapahauli wrote: Regarding Djo I'm not sure if anyone's brought it up, but I watched Palmar's video and was really surprised he skipped over one of his posts in his analysis: The underlined bit is a very strange thing for a townie to say. Townies are a naturally suspicious folk, and a line of reasoning that assumes someone is not scum really goes against this mentality. Of course I'm not going to judge him on one post, but if there's anyone I could call a scum-read right now, it would be Djo. I'm starting to be his main scum read. Then realize I'm the only player with Munk-E as town. And watch the 180 On December 12 2012 17:05 Hapahauli wrote: *snip* Djodref - This one probably needs some 'splainin. The shit that he pulled at the end of the Day 1 lynch in no sane way came from a scum player. He was really enthralled with this idea of starting a last-minute wagon on a player when it was clear that adam would be getting lynched. I can't see hypothetical scum Djo pulling stuff like this, since he would have known that Adam would flip red. The dynamics of the game suggest that Adam was bussed by scum in the later hours. Djodref's play is far too attention-whoring and suicidal to be from scum. In addition, there are posts like this... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=13#260 ...where he displays a really convoluted thought process that I attribute more to town than scum. *snip* How strange that the links he gives is how I derived a town read on Munk-E ! Plus, I've made this kind of post as mafia before in the Looney Game for daoud. So I don't understand how he can attribute this to a town djodref. Anyway, he then proceeds to defend me, which proves that he has a very strong town read on me. On December 14 2012 11:30 Hapahauli wrote: @ Marv I know you haven't finished your stuff on Djo, but this comment I think is pretty telling of his play. Players like this often are just attention whoring townies rather than scum. And, coincidentally, here is what you can find in his filter just before today. On December 16 2012 10:02 Hapahauli wrote: I'd read dump, but I don't have much to add to what Palmar had said. I'm still much more hesitant on Djo however. VE will probably be my lynch target of choice if I'm alive. The wishy-washy stance, for no reason. I haven't done anything to make him doubt my townieness. Why not opposing my lynch ? Where is he when I need him ? Hapa different stances on me clearly shows that him defending me is a part of his mafia agenda Part IV --- A few weird arguments Hapa has made some posts that sounds very strange to justify his stances. If we go back to this post. On December 13 2012 18:02 Hapahauli wrote: I thought WBG claimed scum, and I really didn't want any part of the conversation until the flip. I try to avoid kicking players while they're down - it's something I've done in the past, and I regret it alot. Why would he feel the need to kick WBG down ? Weird justification for not making a comment. On December 14 2012 11:30 Hapahauli wrote: @ Marv I know you haven't finished your stuff on Djo, but this comment I think is pretty telling of his play. Players like this often are just attention whoring townies rather than scum. Here is the comment he made to justify his town read on me for marv. I don't see town Hapa to make this kind of comments. This is some bullshit he had to make up to justify himself. Part V --- Not on the front line Hapa doesn't fight to push his lynches. He is less involved in this game than on our other game. All in all, he doesn't really fit his town meta. But right now I'm tired and I would appreciate someone to do this part for me. After writing this case, I'm more confident in a scum Hapa than a scum VE. Anyone ready to lynch him today ? ##Unvote ##Vote Hapa | ||
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On December 17 2012 20:39 marvellosity wrote: yes, I consider anyone for today's lynch, even Vivax (I jest). Limiting ourselves is silly. I do however need to reach some sort of conclusion in the next 6 hours or so, I have a birthday thing tonight so I don't know when I'll be back. I detest how Hapa is abdicating playing the game until far too close to deadline (I might actually have to disappear before he bothers showing his face). Apart from anything else that's just fucking shit. Not impressed mate, whichever alignment you are. Djodref is just throwing things out left and right and seeing what sticks. Bluelightz' filter being bad doesn't make him scum, for example. @ Marv I'm just trying to prepare the town for what's going to happen when I flip town. I need your comment on my latest case against Hapa. | ||
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On December 17 2012 21:06 marvellosity wrote: Honestly the more you try the less I want to lynch you. I can't really disagree with anything that you or thrawn have said about hapa. "why would i purposefully, blatantly, be so shit" is not a defence either. I'll cross fingers you're not doing some bus here, and join you on Hapa. ##Vote: Hapahauli I'm town and I'm just fucking trying right now... I think it's my best case so far. Here I forgot to include a part where he blatantly buddies me. On December 13 2012 18:03 Hapahauli wrote: Also, that's quite a nice post/angle of analysis there Djo. Good to see you vindicate my town read on you =) | ||
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@ BL Would you vote Hapa today ? @ Vivax What do you think of my case against Hapa ? Would you like to lynch him today ? @ VE What about a bus ? | ||
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On December 17 2012 21:17 marvellosity wrote: Right. Compared to Hapa who has been in NO danger of being lynched and has just coasted along doing jack shit. Who do you compare Hapa to ? I don't understand what you mean... | ||
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On December 17 2012 21:50 Hapahauli wrote: Oh I guess I have one hour to defend myself before I start my final. Djo, what about your case isn't explained by the fact that I'm busy? Apparently everyone in this game thought I was playing very pro-town and townie up until a period of about ~48 hours ago, at which point I had to start studying for finals and Witchraft Mafia began. So what's the logical conclusion here? That... a) I (as hypothetical mafia) arbitrarily decided to stop playing despite doing very well for myself b) I (as town) became busy You were not busy, you were derping in the Witchcraft Mafia thread. I think that the deal is done over there, you could have spared the time to come playing here. | ||
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Why did you not push VE lynch harder yesterday ? You could have the perfect argument. Mafia players like to go after a lynch that is not going to happen. They look concerned, but this is just a perfect disruptive behavior. And this is an argument you should have made and pushed to lynch VE yesterday. | ||
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My problem is not only your inactivity today, but the fact that in the few posts that you have made, you never defended me today. And, given what's happening in the other game thread, don't tell me that you cannot concentrate on 2 games. | ||
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On December 16 2012 21:37 Vivax wrote: Djo, can you post a few cases? Cases where you don't argue that someone has an alignment cause you are town? Pleasepleasepleasepleaseplease. Need to see some scumhunting from you. Seriously, I've spent a lot of time on my cases. I'm fucking doing my job here. Please do yours. | ||
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But you have made some posts here today. What was preventing you from stating that I was a mislynch ? | ||
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What was preventing you from stating that I was a mislynch today ? You should have said it if you were really caring of this game. How come you had a town read on me all this time ? How come that you didn't reassess your read on me with Palmar's case on me ? Or marv being suspicious of me ? | ||
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On December 17 2012 22:27 Vivax wrote: GL at your finals then. Now, let's lynch VE, djo. And that post was fairly old, you posted like 3 cases since then. You want a pat on your back or something? I don't wanna lynch you over VE anyway. Hapa's committed to delivering, so let's give him that chance since his business seems genuine. I wouldn't mind to lynch VE but, right now, I'm really more confident that Hapa is scum. Just take a look at Munk-E filter. Tell me what you think of Munk-E. His voting post on Adam reeks of mafia mentality. | ||
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On December 17 2012 22:32 Hapahauli wrote: I explained the first bit already in my previous post. As far as the town read, I think you've been a blitheringly obvious town. I've stated many times why I've thought so in my filter. I straight-up disagree with Palmar. I understand how your actions could be interpreted as anti-town (vote-waffling late in D1) but I disagree. Blew, Marv just went back to lynch VE. Yeah, but I also lied by omission to Palmar. I have also pushed a lynch on Tunkeg quite hard, and he turned out to be town. I mean, there was way enough stuff to make you doubt. Like, I was supposedly your main scum read at your first read of the thread. How could you give up on this view for all the game ? You know my alignment, that is all. It fits too well in a scum agenda, just defending the townie which has a town read on you. I've done it before, you are doing it now. | ||
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On December 17 2012 22:34 Hapahauli wrote: So Djo - what have I been doing that VE hasn't done worse at this point? And as for Munk-E, read his newbie game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381931&user=87525 ...in which he got mislynched D1 as town. Then get back to me about his play. I'm sorry to say this to you, but you replaced the guy that made this post. I cannot let this go. People made this mistake in the Mario Mini. Not lynching me for what thrawn has done. I understand your frustration. On December 12 2012 09:45 Munk-E wrote: Woah. Remember that we need 9 votes to lynch someone. With only a half hour left, it's probably too late to start a counter wagon. Even if jay seems more likely than adam, Adam is still worth your vote more. With 9 votes exactly on him, I'm worried that a last second band wagon gives any scum buddies he might have trying to bus him a legitimate reason to turn today into a no lynch. ##VOTE Adam4167 Objectively, wouldn't you lynch Munk-E for this post if he wasn't yourself ? But, yeah, you look more town that VE, but you didn't come defend me today. That is a fact... ##Unvote ##Vote VE It looks like we can consolidate better on VE for today. He better be mafia. But yeah, I'm going to go after you hard tomorrow. | ||
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On December 17 2012 22:42 Hapahauli wrote: Unfortunately that's my last post for a couple of hours. Wish me luck <3 MERDE ! it's the French way <3 | ||
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Ok, I'm fine with that. If you had to find a scum between grush and jay, who would it be ? Did you like my case against Hapa ? | ||
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On December 18 2012 00:50 marvellosity wrote: There's about 99% probability there are 4 scum in a 16 player setup. I must resist.... Do you have any idea on which classic setup this game could be based off ? It's the first time for me to play in a 16 players game. | ||
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Why did you check the guy town was going to lynch ? Where are your crumbs ? Why did you not defend me today ? | ||
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On December 18 2012 07:24 VisceraEyes wrote: First things first, I'm a Cop. N1 I checked Bugs…and was pretty fucking shitty when Clarity claimed a shot on him. I checked Djodref last night after much deliberation. It was between he and ZBoson, and rather than check MY scum read, I opted to check the rest of town's scum read instead - Palmar had a scum read on him, and town seemed pretty primed to lynch him last I had read. And as it turns out, Djodref came back town. If I'd known he was gonna go commando on the fucking thread THIS phase, I wouldn't have fucking bothered…but there you have it. So: a lynch into myself or Djodref is a mislynch. Good luck with that one guys. I suggest ZBoson because I honestly and truly believe he's scum…and if I can get a spare minute I'll try and convince you guys...in the meantime, my next post will give my reads on the remaining players. Why do you suggest Z-Bo ? Did you read my case against Hapa ? It's even more damning if you know I'm town... | ||
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It's way too convenient.There is no breadcrumbs whatsoever... The check choices are weird. The alternative lynches proposed by Hapa and VE are weird. | ||
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The problem is that we are going to miss votes, afaik marv is not here... Who would vote Hapa here ? | ||
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Where are his breadcrumbs and all ? What about the game balance ? | ||
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On December 18 2012 08:35 Vivax wrote: You're trying to win Djo over aren't ya. If VE flips red you're next thrawny. You didn't like my case against Hapa ? | ||
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On December 18 2012 08:33 Hapahauli wrote: Well that's rather sad. I even showed you how lynch-bait'y Munk-E was and you're still fixated on that post. It's not only that post, anyway, we have no choice but to lynch VE today. | ||
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Magic Mini Mafia | ||
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On December 18 2012 08:50 VisceraEyes wrote: Another effortless mislynch in the books. Good job scumteam, whoever you are. Bleh, if you are town, the blame is totally on you... You have no breadcrumbs... You went after Clarity like a retard... You didn't care about this game... | ||
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On December 18 2012 08:52 VisceraEyes wrote: I did so already. His D1 play was all about throwing random suspicion around and not giving a shit about who was lynched. Why did you never present the case with his D1 play ? I've asked it from you many times ! What about Palmar saying : this guy is totes town ! What about Clarity other town games ? | ||
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What was preventing him to pop in and just saying: "I'm cop, I have a green check on Djodref, you guys are totally going into the wrong direction" | ||
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On December 18 2012 09:39 jaybrundage wrote: IT doesnt matter jsut get off VE if we have a no lynch its better then killing town a claimed cop on top of that. This is the worst claim ever. Timing and all. His behavior doesn't make sense if he is cop. Also, there was only 3 blues in another game similar in size. What do you think about this math ? | ||
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On December 18 2012 09:30 jaybrundage wrote: Ok we have ten people left to vote. If marv is right about 4 mafia then we have 7 town and 3 mafia left. That means that out of the 7 people that voted VE 1 of them is mafia. As i as town have not voted for VE There is no reason to bus VE as Djo was a easy option considering if hes town. Also if VE is townie that means that there are 2 scum on this lynch. So therefore we shouldnt lynch VE cause 2 scum on on VE's lynch wagon Any questions? And, no, I wasn't an easy option. I think I fought my mislynch correctly. | ||
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On December 18 2012 09:50 jaybrundage wrote: Djo are you here too. get off the lynch wagon we can do this Oh yeah ! Because now I'm totally town. No, thanks. | ||
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We have to assume that there are two scum players left, and right now I'm leaning on jay and Hapa. | ||
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On December 18 2012 10:12 Hapahauli wrote: Well you have yet to respond to the fact that Munk-E is lynch bait. Been waiting for a while on it really. I'm going to read Munk-E previous games, but his post where he votes Adam just reeks of mafia mentality. Like, VE was the scum vig, and you can almost guess it given how obsessed he was with the role. Munk-E mentions "scumbddies bussing Adam" because he is certainly bussing himself. You were also strangely ready to accept VE's fakeclaim, for someone who was very critical of our play when Dandel made his fakeclaim in the NMM XIXX game. I wouldn't mind lynching jay before you tomorrow, but you have to seriously step up if you are town. But I'm going to reassess my reads given this flip before the deadline. | ||
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On December 18 2012 10:14 Hapahauli wrote: Can we sit down and resolve this "you think I'm mafia" thing right now? Find me some scum and I'll change my mind. Maybe... | ||
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On December 18 2012 09:30 jaybrundage wrote: Ok we have ten people left to vote. If marv is right about 4 mafia then we have 7 town and 3 mafia left. That means that out of the 7 people that voted VE 1 of them is mafia. As i as town have not voted for VE There is no reason to bus VE as Djo was a easy option considering if hes town. Also if VE is townie that means that there are 2 scum on this lynch. So therefore we shouldnt lynch VE cause 2 scum on on VE's lynch wagon Any questions? @ jay I have a question ! What the fuck is this logic ? You have to explain me slowly and carefully how you concluded that VE was town. What did you make of Palmar's legacy at this time ? | ||
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On December 18 2012 10:36 Hapahauli wrote: Well I was the first to vote VE today (in-thread, forgot to put it in the voting thread initially). You seem to think it was a bus, but why would I turn down a seemingly easy opportunity to lynch you, given that Palmar was convinced you were scum? Maybe you thought that it would be better to stick on your tow read on me ? How could you after me ? The thing missing in your filter, and that's scummy, is you taking my defense today. VE should have done this if he was scum. You should have done this. I don't buy your "I was busy" thing. Just not yet. Anyway, you just have to find the two remaining scum to convince me that you are town. Who would you pick right now ? | ||
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Riddle my this. You like to sheep Palmar. This guy told us to lynch VE and me. Today, you were definitively convinced that I was scum. But you soft-defended VE. Then you are suddenly certain that VE lynch is a mislynch. I still don't understand why. The lynch was supposedly to easy. What I don't understand is that when someone claim cop without breadcrumb and stuff and gives a green check on your top scumread, you just believe him. I would expect town jay to have VE and me pinned as mafia at this point. | ||
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On December 18 2012 11:07 grush57 wrote: Oh wow, goodjob guys. :D DJO NEXT? ;D lol grush jay next if you don't mind | ||
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On December 18 2012 10:52 Hapahauli wrote: So I'm scummy for not pushing mafia objectives? There's a reason why I wanted to lynch VE and not you. Well anyway, I'll work on scum #3 and #4. I'll let you work on them in peace. I'm now quite confident on the issue of this game. | ||
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I hope that you are going to include jay in your scumteam. The association with VE is quite obvious. Moreover, mafia should had been able to push his lynch over adam lynch D1 if he was town. If jay is such a mislynch bait, why would VE go after z bo ? When he could have been consistent and get a mislynch on jay. Jay is scum. GG | ||
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On December 18 2012 12:35 Hapahauli wrote: Most likely. Jay was pushing scum objectives pretty hard, but I have to be sure that he's not a stupid townie. It's kinda similar to you really - you were seemingly pushing mafia objectives pretty hard on the D1 lynch, but I'm pretty convinced you're town on your behavior. How could he not doubt VE ? VE claimed a green check on me. I was supposed to be his mega top scumread. Please also note how he failed to push my lynch today. I didn't see his frustration when I managed to talk my way out of the lynch. He was lacking of convinction. | ||
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I also need your cases for your current scum reads. I would like also to know if your stance on me has changed since the flip. Your latest scum reads are Vivax, marv and Z-Bo. Good luck for your cases ! @ Hapa jay is not a new player here. Did you see the reasoning he gave for his absolute confidence in a town VE ? This is such far fetched, weird, totally made-up reasoning. Here is the natural town reaction. Someone claims Cop without breadcrumbs and stuff when he is about to get lynched, giving a green check on your top scumread. You just lynch this guy. Especially if Palmar wanted to lynch him before as well. Anyway, jay's filter is pretty scummy on itself, so... The easiest answer is that he is scum. | ||
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@Hapa, nvm, I'll let you work in total independence. Just find us some scum ^^ | ||
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like lynch jay, lynch BL, Lynch Hapa or like lynch jay, lynch Hapa, lynch Bl time to concede | ||
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Please try to explain your first logic in details. The math thing. I don't get it at all. Anyway, if you are town, which I doubt. You should better spend all your time finding the remaining scum. | ||
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Did I bus VE or not ? | ||
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On December 18 2012 20:32 Bluelightz wrote: Yes! Hello BL ! Would you like to lynch jay tomorrow ? Who do you think are the remaining scum players ? | ||
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I really like your part explaining Hapa's reaction to VE's claim. He is really positioning himself to believe this claim. With such a post, he's clearly has the possibility to unvote VE and switch the lynch or to stay on VE if the other players stay on VE. I'm expecting town Hapa to ask for breadcrumbs at least and to be very doubtful wrt this perfect timed claim. I would also expect town Hapa to nail VE when he was going on his crazy Clarity tunnel. Instead, we have this comment On December 14 2012 06:05 Hapahauli wrote: Meh, I'm not feelin a VE lynch right now. His thing with clarity reads more as a misguided tunnel than something malicious. Bluelightz on the other hand is ripe for some lynching. Lynch-bait or not, he's one of the few players in the game that hasn't given me any reason to think he's town. Tunkeg being the other, but I rather like that last longer post of his. I didn't like his stance on Jay afer the lynch. Jay's posts were totally off. I don't feel conviction in his posting, when he was trying to push me for example, or when he starts to be sure that VE is town. I really think that Hapa and jaybrundage are the remaining scum. | ||
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On December 13 2012 10:51 Hapahauli wrote: I have Z-Bo as leaning-scum through process of elimination atm. Djo... I still think his D1 lynch actions are townie. There was that series of "COUNTERWAGON GO" posts that seem suicidal from a scum perspective. One could certainly interpret it as him not giving a shit about who gets lynched other than adam, but I just can't connect a mentality of Djo knowing Adam was scum, knowing that Adam was the clear leader to get hanged, and then going off and pulling the stunts that he did. I like how VE, jay and Hapa wanted to lynch Z-Bo. I'm expecting a meta-case on Z-Bo again, and him getting lynched like in Mario. @ Z-Bo What do you make of this ? Could you give us some reasons for your activity level being lower than usual this game ? | ||
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On December 17 2012 08:29 Hapahauli wrote: Leaning town on VE initially Asked him a question about something rather scummy in his filter Change my mind on VE when a) VE doesn't respond and b) Palmar (who knows his meta far more than I do) thinks he's "sure to be scum" Then I voted VE. Don't see what's wrong with that This is definitively not town Hapa... | ||
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On December 18 2012 21:56 thrawn2112 wrote: djo if you're gaming me again like in looney imma kick u in the teeth yes, I have done extensive smiley analysis of this game and the results were slightly concerning yet inconclusive Don't worry, I'm really town this game And regarding the smileys Seriously ? I don't think it's a good tell honestly. It depends on my mood. Like today, I'm sick and tired, so I'm not too much into smileys... Also, I think I'm going to use them less and less, because my meta (town and mafia) has evolved. I think I'll try think more about what I should post, even playing town. And maybe thinking less with playing mafia. For example, I didn't really take the time to really think when Palmar asked me about my views on the interactions betweem Adam/debears. So I lied by omission. So I look bad... But I don't think that it was wasted, I think I did a good job at defending myself today. And find the mafia when they pushed my lynch. I also think that this game is over now ^^ I may prepare a case against jay. But I don't feel like I need too... | ||
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Like, you have this post in VE's filter when jay was "a la mode" + Show Spoiler [VE's case against jay] + On December 11 2012 16:00 VisceraEyes wrote: I changed my mind. I think jaybrundage is scum. After his first post on thrawn in which he says he’s suspicious, he asks my opinion of the matter. I gave it, and that’s the last that was heard about it. Why did he want my input? He never referenced anything I said, or even acknowledged that I said it. I believe that he was just trying to get someone to agree with him regarding thrawn. It really makes me uncomfortable when someone else speaks for me, and in this post jaybrundage is telling thrawn that I don’t believe his claim. I didn’t believe his claim, but because I thought his claim was a joke considering that the OP is explicit in the fact that millers are not self-aware. Therefor, I thought his claim was funny. But I certainly didn’t think he was LYING about his claim with any malicious intent. It doesn’t make sense for me to think that he thought that I would believe that claim based on what the OP says. But jaybrundage is telling thrawn in no uncertain terms that I, VisceraEyes, think that he’s lying about his claim for no reason. And that’s not the case. He then goes on to say that “...It only makes sense from a mafia perspective.” But that’s not true either is it? If thrawn is to be believed, he did it as a joke and to “spark discussion” and “ignite conversation” and such. Which, if he’s town, is a reasonable (if misguided) motivation. The thing that I don’t like about this post isn’t even that it’s self defeating in the fact that Djo had, in fact, voted in the game thread...which shows that he’s not only not reading the thread, but is closely watching the voting thread...the opposite of what he’d have you believe in the post quoted above. It’s not that. Look at what Djo is saying. He’s saying he believes thrawn was joking too, and is asking someone about their thoughts on anyone else. So he’s ignored my response regarding thrawn. Now he’s insidiously trying to discredit Djo (calling out his not-really-ninja vote in the voting thread) rather than respond to his post requesting discussion outside of thrawn. It all starts to stink like scum pushing an agenda to me. Especially considering, in spite of all of this... ....HE TAKES IT ALL BACK ANYWAY! That's right, after the whole song and dance about being SOO FRUSTRATED with how he wasn't being paid attention to, and how his motivations only make sense from scum perspective, and in the face of people he has SPECIFICALLY asked their opinion of disagreeing with him, and EVERYTHING....he takes it all back anyway. Because thrawn said it was a joke and it was to generate discussion. Cool. Die. ##Unvote: Vivax ##Vote: jaybrundage I'm going to go reread Vivax now and see if I still think he's scum. This changes things, because I had intended to spend this time writing a case on Vivax...but after reading the votecount and realizing that this jayb wagon was for real, I thought I'd check into him first. I'm glad I did, but now jaybrundage is voting for Vivax as well. We'll see what a reread brings. It's one of the best case of VE in this game. The classic "I'm taking my distances case". Like, if jay was town, if he is such an easy mislynch, why did VE not try to push him ? On December 12 2012 02:46 VisceraEyes wrote: It means I haven't filtered them and read interactions I found suspicious in context. I have a preliminary read on both of them (Adam = scummy, Tunkeg = null leaning town) but without filtering them, I'm the mostest certain of a jaybrundage lynch. Top scum read and stuff, but he didn't try to swap Adam's lynch into jay's lynch. I did And after that On December 15 2012 04:40 VisceraEyes wrote: *snip* Jay has rubbed me the wrong way all day and now he's pushing candidates I like and without fear of going against town sentiment...need to filter. *snip*. On December 18 2012 07:56 VisceraEyes wrote: PRE-tldr for VIVAX ZBoson jaybrundage Hapahauli grush Bluelightz thrawn Vivax marv Djodref Remembers jay at this point of time. lol Jay was not a mafia potential mislynch. Because Jay is mafia... | ||
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On December 18 2012 22:50 Bluelightz wrote: jay - His last ditch defence on VE doesn't look like a townie defense but a desperate attempt to divert the lynch on someone else. marv - My god why isn't he dead grush - overall uselessness What about Hapa ? He isn't dead either... | ||
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I'll be back before the deadline, just to check if anything new is going to happen But, yeah, we have to lynch jay tomorrow | ||
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On December 19 2012 00:33 Z-BosoN wrote: Wait, you also did the same thing. As soon as day three cracked, you followed palmar on VE but not really on BLuelightz. To whom your first reaction when prodded was "I can't believe I'm getting lynched over that guy" instead of "because I think he's scum" To whom you are not even contemplating right now. Oh Djoey, I'm still not liking you. A bit of WIFOM, but I'm getting the feeling that VE was gambling on living as Cop and automatically making you look green as well. That's something he'd totally do. From a townie perspective, why would you make a case on bluelightz right after you made yours on VE? I still can't understand this. @ Z-Bo Dear Z-Bo, I'm not a sheep. Jaybrundage is. I did present my own extensive case on VE before saying that Tunkeg, WBG and Palmar wanted also to lynch VE. Regarding my case on BL, you have to understand this my perspective (town Djodref). Let's imagine you are getting mislynched. You feel this as a great injustice. And there is this other guy here, you don't really know if he is mafia or town, because, well, you can't. He hasn't be pro-town, he cooperates on the lynches but yeah... by elimination, he totally could be mafia How do you feel ? Don't you feel like, "how could my lynch be better for the town than the lynch of this guy" ? At least I know I'm town... And I know I'm going to produce more than this guy And the other people should realize this, and even if they have doubts about me, BL lynch was better than mine | ||
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On December 19 2012 03:21 jaybrundage wrote: And ofc VE would of been completly willing to vote me to save his scum buddy. lol He never switched to you. Even when I tried to derail Adam's lynch... VE was mafia, and he had to choose between mafia and mafia. Don't defend yourself. Go scumhunt... | ||
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We lynch jay tomorrow | ||
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GG | ||
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cool Time to concede ? ##Vote jay | ||
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VE and me became magically town at the end ^^ | ||
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On December 19 2012 10:28 thrawn2112 wrote: yeah it means nothing yet imo lol thrawn, I thought you were dead posting. I'm confused >.< | ||
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On December 19 2012 10:27 marvellosity wrote: yes, scum can stack KP the question is why Maybe they are waiting to see who really wants to lynch the last scum at the end of tomorrow night. It's something that they expect all of us to argue over and see who is the best to kill. | ||
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What do you think about establishing jay as "confirmed scum" for everybody and then try to lynch the remaining scum today ? | ||
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On December 19 2012 10:32 thrawn2112 wrote: why u thought that? I'm trying to find a reason for not killing someone today... For me, it looks like a reasonable strat. You let the townies fight themselves on who could be the last scum and you chose to kill the guys who are going to push the correct lynch. Or they want to "frame" marv... Anyway, it's not really important | ||
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On December 19 2012 10:35 thrawn2112 wrote: how is that better than lynching "confirmed scum" Because we have more brainpower today to find the last scum. Like, if jay ends up at LYLO, it's going to be a no-brainer for everybody. | ||
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On December 19 2012 10:38 thrawn2112 wrote: djo idk what you're smoking i was dead posting as scum? wat? no, I thought you were dead because you are dead in the other game. Did I say as scum ? | ||
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On December 19 2012 10:40 marvellosity wrote: This. We lynch our #1 scumread in all situations and we carry on. Playing games gets you burnt fingers Do we need more cases against jay or not ? It's pretty clear for me that he is scum. I would say that he has 95% chances to flip scum. Or can we spend our time on finding the remaining one ? | ||
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I have a serious cold guys, it looks like I'm not thinking properly... | ||
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On December 19 2012 11:26 Hapahauli wrote: No one wants to talk to me? =( Y u no concede ? | ||
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On December 19 2012 11:33 jaybrundage wrote: Hi there im gonna be mislynched today Well, you could give some effort to talk yourself out of the lynch. I did it. You have 48 hours. Good luck. Why so whiny ? Y u no concede ? | ||
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On December 19 2012 11:35 Hapahauli wrote: I mean I could get modkilled or something, but that would do no good. Can't conceed as town unfortunately. So what makes me scum over someone like... bluelightz? Munk-E. And also because scum BL would already have conceded I guess. It's going to be like lynch jay -> lynch Hapa -> lynch BL If the scumteam is jay and BL, there is no way for them to win the game. Scum BL doesn't survive LYLO. In my opinion, BL doesn't survive LYLO, regardless of his alignment. The scumteam would have a chance if we have jay - Vivax, or jay - Z-Boson. Which is something that could be possible, but still less likely than jay - BL and jay - Hapa. I'm surprised that you didn't post some case against Vivax or Z-Bo... | ||
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On December 19 2012 11:37 jaybrundage wrote: : / you're mean im not being whiney im just stated the most likely outcome of today. Fun fact i have never been shot by mafia as town Fun fact: the only scumhunting that you have done in this game was to write a case against me, basically just saying that I was opposing Adam's lynch And I don't count the "pants on head" case you have done against Clarity. I'm just noting that VE pulled off the same shit. | ||
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On December 19 2012 11:49 Hapahauli wrote: Sigh. Have you read his town game? Just lynch BL first, then me at LYLO. Can we agree on that? I don't want to play this longer than I have to. Why the hell would I try to get town reads lynched? I mean I can build a town case, but that's just silly and unnecessary given the thread dynamics right now. Don't you agree that it would be better to lynch you first ? I don't want you at LYLO with grush and someone else. Grush could fuck this up. I want BL at LYLO, because even Grush could vote him for sure. | ||
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I'm not so sure about grush | ||
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On December 19 2012 11:54 Hapahauli wrote: So you're voting me because you're... scared? I mean like I can sympathise with that, but that would involve the game going 48 hours longer than it needs to. It's my point of view right now. I'll try read the whole game again today, and also after jay lynch. I don't care of the length this is going to take, I'm expecting to die before LYLO. | ||
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On December 19 2012 11:59 Hapahauli wrote: Well anyway, just read Munk-E's filter. Also, outside of the 48-hour busy period, I've been pretty present in the thread. That's been the gist of my defense anyway. My problem is that I know where you were at a certain point in time and, yeah, I would say, not so busy, but I might be wrong... Here is my list of reads right now Djodref Thrawn Marv Vivax Z-Boson grush BL Hapa jaybrundage Let's assume that we lynch jay today and that he flips scum (rather safe assumption) then we are at 7-1 during the night, and 5-1 the following day. If we mislynch, we are at 4-1 during the night, and certainly 3-1 during the day. So it's MYLO, and we should better vote for a no-lynch to finally get at 2-1 the following day. I'm planning to present an extensive case against Hapa today | ||
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On December 19 2012 12:02 Hapahauli wrote: Well actually hold up - let me challenge this "vote hapa first 'cause it's more optimal" thing: If you vote BL first, you'll have an extra 48 hours to actually figure out if I'm scum (or hopefully realize that I'm town). I'm like a thousand times more active than BL anyway I don't want to give extra 48 hours to a potential scum Hapa so he can talk his way out of a lynch I wouldn't mind at all to give an extra 48 hours to a potential scum BL to try to talk his way out of a lynch ^^ | ||
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On December 19 2012 12:14 Hapahauli wrote: Or you can give town hapa an extra 48 hours to talk himself out of a mislynch mmkay? Plus the game will likely end when BL gets killed. you have now a bit less than 120 hours to talk yourself out of a lynch I think it's enough ^^ Why don't you start now ? Town reads cases are welcomed. I feel sorry for you that you had to replace Munk-E ^^ And yeah, regarding BL, too scummy to be scum. And given his low motivation, I would expect him to concede if he was mafia. | ||
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What are you afraid of ? You think that people are not going to be able to lynch BL at MYLO or LYLO ? Moreover, you are going to be dead, so you don't even have to play... You win with town, don't you ? | ||
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On December 19 2012 12:59 Hapahauli wrote: /facepalm Not a good reason to think he's not scum dawg. Is this actually a question? Like I'm not supposed to get the guy who I think is mafia lynched? Mm, ok. I'm waiting for your case against BL ! | ||
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Do you have anything to claim ? | ||
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On December 19 2012 07:41 marvellosity wrote: how is it convenient to join the adam wagon as vote #2? how is 2/3 scum lynches "mostly wrong"? And yes, I'm better than any of you at reading people like grush or Bluelightz. That's your failure as a player and my ability. Sorry for being good bro If you're going to call me "mostly wrong" don't expect me to sit there and then start preaching at me for arguing with you. @ marv What's exactly your read on Bluelightz right now ? | ||
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Could you make us a big post about how you feel during this game ? Anything that could show us that you are town, really.. I don't necessarily want scumhunting, I just want a post bigger than usual... | ||
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On December 19 2012 15:01 jaybrundage wrote: Im curious. What are you going to do when i flip town. Maybe you should start to find us 2 possible mafia players, it could really help us if you are really town. If you don't step up today, nothing is going to happen. If you post good cases, you could have a chance to survive, and at least you create discussion and improve our chances to win in the long term. Who would you pick as a scumteam right now ? | ||
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On December 19 2012 15:11 jaybrundage wrote: Hm i wanna say Z-boson from my gut read. But its nothing else besides that. ok, I'm waiting for your case against Z-Bo then. | ||
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On December 19 2012 18:59 Bluelightz wrote: How I feel? I feel kinda discouraged from as I said, people shutting down me from speaking anything like what thrawn did (not that it's a scummy thing he did that cuz I guess it's normal trying to shut scum from squirming in the thread assuming I am hypothetically scum). Also, considering the likely chance I will live in LYLO, I just don't wanna get lynched AGAIN. (Can't tell you how many times I've been lynched during LYLO/fucked up during it). If you guys consider me scum - fine, it's not my responsibility to shoulder the blame for my mislynch. I think you have a good chance now to speak without being shut down. How are you feeling about this lynch ? Confident that we are going to hit scum ? Who would be the remaining scum if jay flips red and why ? Who would you have as scum if jay flips green ? | ||
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I have jay at scum at 95%. Hapa as scum at 80%. So, the good play is to lynch jay first, but I understand your feeling and I agree that we need discussion. Could you prepare us a case against Hapa ? | ||
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On December 20 2012 03:48 Vivax wrote: How about this as an apéritif, mon ami of the Grand Nation? This kind of things are not really relevant. Town slips and mafia slips. In that case, we could have Z-Bo as scum as well | ||
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I'm very interested in your opinion on Vivax | ||
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It's always more difficult to come up with cases as scum... | ||
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On December 11 2012 21:24 Vivax wrote: I've read Adams filter. So basically, the case on him seems to be built on "the change of tone in his post". That post with changed tone dabears mentioned was written one day after the last ones, so it's likely that he's writing like that cause he's not heated up like the day before. That day, he finished into an OMGUS fight with dabears, where they basically both vote for each other cause they argue about having to vote for the people you lean scum on. And this is where the matter stinks. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=9#171 This is dabeers post about Adam. OH SHIT HE'S SUSPICIOUS CAUSE HE'S NOT VOTING FOR THRAWN. Look at the post, look at the voting thread, look at the reactions. Adam voted before debears upon being accused by him of not voting thrawn, meanwhile, dabears accused Adam of something he himself did. Only clarity so far has expressed criticism of this case against Adam, now I will, too. 1.The case is shit 2.The case is shit 3.The case is shit Being this a shit case accepted by many people, I think there's scum trying to sheep in it. and also this post On December 17 2012 02:38 Vivax wrote: What's off about VE is that he defended Tunkeg against some pretty strong cases before the Adam lynch,namely by marv. + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2012 03:45 VisceraEyes wrote: This post right here is why I'm not interested in lynching Tunkeg today. wherebugsgo is very opinionated about the play of others, and isn't a bit shy about calling out their play if he sees it as "bad" or "dumb". This post by Tunkeg seems genuinely confused by Bugs' assertion that his play this game is unlike his play in other, town games because Bugs has, in the past, called his play "bad" and "dumb". It seems scum would be more pissed off at the contradiction than confused - that scum would incredulously OMGUS such an assertion because it's clearly in contrast with what he had said at the time. His reads post reads EXACTLY like the "town" example Bugs provided, aside from the whole giving up and "me flipping town will confirm Palmar as town" nonsense...which could be contrived or honest - but frankly I'm not in the business of figuring out which today because I don't think Tunkeg is a good lynch today. Tunkeg's filter isn't spectacular, but it's way better than like, Bluelightz for example...or grush. I'd be more interested in a grush or Bluelightz lynch than Tunkeg. Certainly jaybrundage and Adam. I'm not touching Tunkeg with a 10 foot pole today. And Bugs, THAT is a derail bish.  Now, onto Adam. I'd have expected a scum VE to profit of the situation by helping a player with a good reputation like marv to push his lynch and take away attention from the Adam lynch. Him trying to lynch jay isn't compatible with theories involving both of them in a scum team either.Additionally, most people were mostly disinterested in a jay lynch, and that stinks of him being scum. Bluelightz would have been an easy lynch to push at many timings, yet VE expressed his disbelief of him being scum, in spite of how easy of a mislynch he'd have been. + Show Spoiler + On December 13 2012 03:08 VisceraEyes wrote: Going back and reading it again, I don't like it very much. It's strewn with true statements (scum care about how they look more than town, Bluelightz calls X strange instead of scummy, etc) but has too many suppositions for my liking. For instance, why is Blue calling something strange instead of scummy alignment indicative? Why can't it just be strange? Why does the fact that he found further reasoning for voting Adam NECESSARILY mean that he cares about looking like a sheep? Why can he not have just found further corroborating evidence and posted it? To be honest, I'm not sure what I think about Bluelightz myself, but your case isn't convincing me of much - only that Bluelightz is playing, as marv said, like Bluelightz. Sorry I didn't respond sooner, but work, lynch, sleep, etc. I liked it before the flip - not so much after the flip. Especially considering Adam put Blue as one of his "probable scum". Of the three people I mentioned at the top of this post, I think Blue is the least likely to flip scum. Not saying much considering I think jay and Bugs have VERY HIGH chances of flipping scum, but Blue's the least likely in my opinion. Then the case about a clarity scum vigi, initially I didn't believe it either, but it was actually possible. I'm not lynching VE today. That said, I suggest that Djo and others should at least elaborate my points. That leaves me with following targets: Jay or BL today. Marv maybe some other day. and this post On December 18 2012 01:36 Vivax wrote: Essentially, no one said why the fuck we are lynching VE, so I think I'd provide a nice summary of his play. He suspected Adam, confirmed clarity, made a case on me, made a case on jay, defended Tunkeg(!), voted Adam, shouted at Djo for the counterbandwagon, but was willing to switch to jay over Adam. Adam dies. Night: I found a lie/mistake in his posts: If I didn't overlook anything, he NEVER cared about bugs. He first mentions him when he agrees with Adams reads, and that's what he has to say about him: And after Adam flipped scum, VE said that he has suspected Bugs before the flip. This at a timing where everybody became interested in him. This might quite be a slip. Then he defended BL against claritys case, posted some stuff against Bugs before he got lynched, and comes back 14 hours later to post a case against clarity with the scumvigi theory. AND he overlooked that Marv got roleblocked that night + WBGs crumb: 8 hours later, he expresses his willingness to sheep Palmar and to lynch Tunkeg, Djo and Clarity. However, he didn't care about Djo during the night when Bugs was being attacked, and he didn't care about the interactions of Tunkeg with bugs before trying to convince us of a scum vigi clarity. But these were the reasons he gave us for suspecting the two. Out of nothing he writes a case against Z-Boson after that joke-slip he pointed out, expresses again doubts about Tunkeg being scum, then starts writing about jay and BL rubbing him wrong. Overall, quite a solid lynch for today. The only townie things I could see would be his defence of Tunkeg and him telling Djo to stop starting a counterwagon. Like, I wondered if he was trying to get town cred with the last post. I've made an extensive case against VE before and also I don't see why would be the town motivation for this post. | ||
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I mean, I have a town read on Vivax right now, but there is still a slight possibility for him to be scum... Same with Z-Bo, he has been pretty townie this game, but his play is a little too 'clean', and he does fly under the radar. But this also speaks again a town Hapa. In Hapa shoes, I would be much more paranoid than he is. Hapa is basically saying that we have to lynch BL and that's going to be GG... | ||
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On December 20 2012 10:40 marvellosity wrote: Because I'm lazy and I remembered I'd said it months ago somehow: Vivax has done questionable things, but if he hadn't I'd ironically think he'd probably be scum. He's clearly pouring effort into this game even though it's horrendously unfocused, and there are many posts where he shows he's attentively read the thread or what people have said, mixed in with posts where it seems he hasn't read the thread at all. I don't see much point talking about Vivax when he's pretty clearly town. Honestly, I rarely go read players other games... I know it's really more likely for him to be town than scum. But, yeah, discussing a little about it doesn't really hurt. I don't want us to lose this game because we got lazy at the end. Jay being totally inactive right now is a good corroboration fact for him to be scum, so I'm really confident in his lynch. But I'm not that confident that we are going to win this game if you mindlessly lynch Hapa and BL. | ||
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On December 20 2012 10:26 marvellosity wrote: because Vivax is pushing him so hard you mean? In fact, I like this part ^^ | ||
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Why are you taking the backseat ? I mean that you are here and provide some good advice, but you are not leading... Who would you like to lynch after jay and why ? | ||
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On December 20 2012 13:01 Z-BosoN wrote: @Djo Also tell me, If jay for some (miraculous) reason flips town, who would you say is scum? I guess, Hapa first, then BL... | ||
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On December 20 2012 12:54 Z-BosoN wrote: Can you elaborate why you think my play has been "too clean"? You look too town to be town You only present solid cases, you don't make random comments that could make you look bad. You are pretty solid this game, I would be impressed if you turn out to be mafia. | ||
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Also, just to give you some heads-up, I'm going to take a flight back to Paris in 12 hours for my annual holidays in France. My activity is going to drop very soon because I don't see my family and my friends in France often so they are going to resent it if I spend too much time in front of my computer. Also I don't have an internet phone back home. | ||
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On December 20 2012 17:51 Hapahauli wrote: Some thoughts before I go to bed: There are three possible explanations for the mafia KP: 1) Mafia are inactive/demotivated and forgot to submit KP. 2) Mafia decided to withhold KP 3) Mafia are making some WIFOM play Option 2: I don't consider option two very likely. Withholding KP only makes sense as a play if someone is worried about explaining why they are alive so late in the game. The only person that makes sense for is marv, who made a similar play in Normal Mini Mafia III as scum. However, it's very doubtful that marv is scum at this stage. Firstly, his meta strongly suggests that he's town. While there's a temptation to think that scum marv is super active all the time, that's just not true. Scum marv can be very active in the early game to build town credit. After that, he seems just as content to coast on his town cred. This is the complete opposite from this game, where he's still active and still very clearly trying to figure things out. In addition, a hypothetical scum-marv could simply kill a player like thrawn (whom everyone has had a town read on since D1) and come out looking fine. There's very little chance that marv is scum, or that any other player would have made this play. Option 3: The only person that a WIFOM play makes sense for is a veteran player who is in danger of getting lynched trying to confuse the town. Rather, it only makes sense for me if I was scum. While it will ring hollow for me to say that "I wouldn't do such a thing," consider what possible scum motives I could have for such a play. There's zero strategical incentive here for me not to kill someone. In fact, if I were scum, I'd increase my chances of survival by killing a player like Djo, thrawn, or Vivax, who have been death-tunneling me for a few days now. But if you still think I'm WIFOM bombing or something, I refer you to Occam's Razor. What requires more insane assumptions... me pulling this play, or the scumteam simply being too inactive to submit a kill? Option 1: This is the only reasonable explanation for the lack of NK in my mind, and it pretty strongly points to a lurker scumteam. Jay: I'd rather not belabor the point - pretty much everyone in the thread has outlined the reason's he's scum at this point. Bluelightz: Bluelightz is the only reasonable lurker that could be scum. His filter is also not very pretty. I'll do something in more detail tomorrow, but I'm very surprised why people are buying into his "demotivated" act. In Rockband Mini, I tunneled the hell out of him (along with several other players). Despite being tunneled under similar circumstances to this game, never once did he get demotivated - he was very proactive and resilient in his defense. Just read his filter... it's night and day from his play this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250&user=235418 Furthermore, he's not getting tunneled at all right now. While I'd understand (and sympathise) with his demotivation earlier, there's just no reason for him to be so lazy in the current situation. He's not under major pressure or anything. In fact many players are trying to encourage him to post. Instead of being constructive, he offers random comments and leaves for hours on end. Z-Boson I think there's an outside chance that Z-Boson could be scum, however given how hard that both Jay and VE pushed him on Day 2, I highly doubt he's mafia. Admittedly I have not read through his filter recently. I'll verify this tomorrow. Grush: My favorite post on GRush is this post by austinmcc in PTP3: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359357¤tpage=85#1693 I think it outlines the differences between scum and town GRush pretty well. In GRush's scumgames, there are certain posts in his filter for which the only objective is to be antagonistic or trolly. In this game, GRush is remarkably constructive. Even if sheepy, his posts are playful and straightforward. There's no trolling, no antagonism, and no traces of scum GRush this game. Why did you use mafia KP speculation as an argument to exonerate yourself and incriminate BL ? I didn't anyone but you giving this importance to the fact that there was no KP. This kind of thing generally indicates a mafia mindset, don't you agree ? | ||
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Speculation like this or giving too much importance to night actions and night kills is generally a mafia trait. I admit that I used to do it as town but it has getting me mislynched ^^ | ||
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To be fair, here is my view about the lack of NK. But first, let's assume that jay is scum, which is rather safe at that point. Given what happened yesterday and last night, jay was doomed. There was no way he could escape his lynch today. The mafia knows it and town knows it as well. So the general activity for today was naturally going to drop, especially if the town feels safe, which happened thanks to the lack of KP. Marv, if he is town, is not going to change totally the outcome of the game today. Mafia can totally wait to kill him and another guy for the next night. I guess that the KP automatically stacks, so it doesn't even matter if it was intentional or not. This game is not going to play out today, but tomorrow, when we have to find the last scum. And tomorrow, we are going to miss 2 town players, for the time when it really matters. So, yeah, as a town player, I don't really give a fuck about the lack of KP. On the other hand, mafia can hope to achieve the following objectives: - Creating confusing in the town if people take the bait, get town players into spirals of useless WIFOM - Getting players like Vivax into "Marv, Y U NO DIE ?" mode, stating that marv town meta is to die N1 (lol) - Allowing the remaining scum to use mafia KP speculation to serve his interest Who is interested in why there was no KP tonight ? Hapa Can I respectfully ask you to concede ? We have another game to play and I go back to France soon, I want this game to end <3 | ||
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I know it is not totally respectful but for me it is also part of the game. Let's just say that it is psychological warfare ^^ If the remaining scum is effectively among BL and Hapa, I'm just that they already feel defeated. And that's going to be transparent in their posts, whenever they concede or not... Also you can expect different reactions to this kind of stuff from a town player and a mafia player. Regarding the night actions, yeah, I may be speculating, but the truth is that I don't really give a fuck. On the other hand, the fact that Hapa latest post had a big focus on night actions is scummy. And that's basically my point. | ||
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Let's assume that jay is 100% going to flip scum for one moment. In this case, what happened exactly during D1 ? The lynch candidates were Adam and jay and maybe Tunkeg a little. It means that mafia got totally rolled over the first day. I don't see scum Z-Bo or scum grush let that happen without at least trying to create interferences. Grush gave Adam away pretty early. I need to review Z-bo during D1 but I don't remember him pushing my lynch so hard. Scum BL or scum Munk-E could totally explain this failure of the scumteam right off the start. Because they were not active enough to derail the town. Not to mention the activity of the town, and the fact that Palmar and you are imb4 I'm planning on reading the whole game again when jay flips. I think that we could get good info from D1 only if it was indeed a choice between scum and scum... And the Munk-E case is damning in my view. There is enough in his filter to justify a lynch on Hapa. I don't remember what you think of Munk-E. Could you humor me please ? | ||
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You say this and I was just thinking that I would lynch myself for my opening post only, if I was an objective observer. | ||
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On December 11 2012 05:44 grush57 wrote: Also Adam is reminding me of his scum play. At that point, nobody cared about Adam anymore, and the scumteam (VE and jay) were pushing a lynch on Vivax. | ||
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On December 11 2012 10:27 HiroPro wrote: Day 1 Vote Count thrawn2112 (2): marvellosity (0): wherebugsgo (1): thrawn2112 debears (1): Adam4167 jaybrundage (4): Clarity_nl, Djodref, Bluelightz, Vivax Adam4167 (1): debears Vivax (2): VisceraEyes, jaybrundage Tunkeg (1) marvellosity No one currently set to be lynched. Deadline in 23.5 hours at 01:00 GMT (+00:00). | ||
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jaybrundage was taking a lot of pressure So, if Z-Bo was scum, it would have been a bad timing to post his case against me, or maybe just to divert the attention... | ||
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Z-Bo was mainly interested in Tunkeg and me. He ignores the other situations. So yeah, I don't think he is scum, given his day 1 play, or he was totally not reading the scumQT. So far, if we count jay as scum (VE and Adam and him going after Vivax), day 1 actions exonerate Vivax and Grush. BlueLightz really looks town at that point as well. Munk-E is just like super scummy. We really have to lynch Hapa first imo, if jay flips scum. | ||
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On December 21 2012 04:31 Hapahauli wrote: Eh. You mind if I just play the demotivated card and not post? Seems like defending myself is literally a waste of time at this point. Seeing stuff like the above should alert you to how much confirmation bias is involved in all of this. @ Hapa Could you read again D1 assuming Jay is going to flip scum and tell me who is likely to be in the team, given what happened during that day ? Just based on D1 and assuming Jay is going to flip scum, tell me who is scum, ok ? | ||
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The scumteam certainly didn't forget to send the KP. And they could have done it to make Vivax go crazy about marv. Honestly, it doesn't really matter, because today is pretty straightforward. It doesn't change anything from my point of view, Jay is scum, and nothing would have changed if one player was missing... | ||
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I forgot to add something regarding what happened during D1... Please explain me how BL fits as a member of the scum team during D1. | ||
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On December 21 2012 04:46 Hapahauli wrote: Riddle me this Djo: Why do you support my lynch against someone who's openly not giving a shit about the thread (Bluelightz)? Because you didn't defend me yesterday when I was a great mislynch potential. Because of Munk-E. Because of your attitude towards VE fakeclaim and jay during VE lynch. And because I don't see BlueLightz as part of the scumteam when I go back reading D1, especially if I assume that jay is scum. And also, I prefer to lynch you before BL, because it's less risky from my point of view. And I have to lynch you by elimination. | ||
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On December 18 2012 07:38 Hapahauli wrote: interesting. I'll have to think about whether it's true or not. If no one counterclaims, I could get behind a Jay lynch. His tunnel on Djo felt really forced all through today. I'm ready to trust VE and lynch Jay. On December 18 2012 08:08 Hapahauli wrote: Well it is rather risky given he's one counter-claim away from an insta-lynch. I wouldn't dismiss his claim as an outright lie until I see some more from him. I'm really ready to trust VE, I'm just waiting so I can see what you guys decide On December 18 2012 08:15 Hapahauli wrote: This is true. Also Djo brought up the point that VE never attempted to defend him (Djo) the entire day. I'm not sure if that's due to VE being afk or just lurking though. I really would like to believe this guy On December 18 2012 09:38 Hapahauli wrote: I can't figure out a player that I'd feel comfortable switching onto. Jay's reactions so far don't seem scummy. He's setting himself up to draw alot of attention to himself regardless of how VE flips. Even Z-Bo seems alright. ...and who else? Bluelightz? Seems like a coin-flip. Ok, look ! jay is pants on head. I don't want to lynch him anymore. He is going to look good when VE is gonna flip (red) I'm sorry if you are town, but this is how I interpret your posts at that time... | ||
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On December 21 2012 04:53 jaybrundage wrote: I gots an idea guys what if we lynch hapa or zboson instead of me cause im town :D The more we are waiting for this Z-Bo case, the more likely you are to flip mafia ^^ | ||
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On December 21 2012 05:10 Hapahauli wrote: These aren't reasonable interpretations of my posts. This is you trying to read between the lines and act as if I'm implying a thousand things that I'm not. In my opinion, you gave VE too much of BOTD. VE was really scummy, my case against him was good enough to convince that he was scum, I would say. Not to mention the fact that WBG, Tunkeg and Palmar wanted to lynch him. When a guy like this comes to the thread when he is going to get lynched with a claim without breadcrumbs, with 3 blues already in the graveyard, he is most likely to fakeclaim, regardless of if there is a counter claim or not. And yeah, wanted to switch and jay makes sense, you could 'confirm' VE as a cop and gain town credit in the operation. Also, I don't understand how you could come from 'let's switch to jay' to go to 'him going totally nuts about VE is a town trait' | ||
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This is because I hold your town play in a very high standard. Don't take it wrong, but you are maybe getting mislynched because people are expecting you to play perfectly. I would expect town Hapa to directly ring to FakeClaim Alert Bell | ||
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On December 21 2012 05:29 Hapahauli wrote: Good lord. The "Fake claim alert bell" isn't about "ZOMG HE'S FAKE CLAIMING LYNCH HIM NOWWWW!" It's about being willing to consider the options in a claiming situation. When someone claims cop, you have to consider the options. You can't tunnel lynch him, because not all last-minute cop claims are mafia. Also I'm surprised you draw so much of this advice from the Dandel Ion fake-claim in that newbie game when the situations were completely different. I was on you guys for not considering the claim since Dandel... 1) Claimed town roleblocker (lol) 2) He was the 4th claimed blue in a 13 player game 3) He had scumslipped several times in his filter 4) The entire town didn't even question his claim 1) VE claimed cop and his checks were weird, plus he had no breadcrumbs 2) 4th blue in a 16 players game, Cop being usually take more slots than other roles 3) VE was scummy enough 4) I did question his claim, but I didn't voice my concerns enough But, yeah, I'm being unfair, you were not the only one. | ||
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But it didn't happen like so, VE gets obviously lynched, ask jay to go pants on head, and you try to make him look town for being that obvious. | ||
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What a fight ^^ | ||
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GG BL GG Vivax lol at BL and jay being both town So, we are at MYLO, huh... | ||
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Am I forgetting someone ? I guess that Hapa as the most chances to flip scum in that list ##Vote Hapa | ||
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We don't know so much about the setup, but I would be very surprised if marv would believe that 5 blues was balanced. The fact that there is no breacrumb doesn't speak in marv favor. @ marv Is there anything in your filter which could show that you were having a "veteran" mentality ? | ||
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On December 23 2012 21:11 marvellosity wrote: also, Djodref, why are you suddenly taking on a backseat, 'moderating' capacity? It's not sudden, but it's true that you didn't try to lead since Tunkeg's lynch. You didn't try to push any lynch when the choice was between VE and me. | ||
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On December 23 2012 23:23 Hapahauli wrote: And as a last point, there are many scum-teams that are plausible right now. I suppose it's alright to think that one of Z-Bo or I (individually) are scum. However, if you think after last night we're a team? Helllllllllll no. Why not ? If you are a team, you can win today. I mean, it would not be strange for mafia or town to show an activity outburst towards the end. | ||
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On December 23 2012 23:30 marvellosity wrote: So in your world where you know you're town, how hard did I try to push your lynch on Day 3? Or did I in fact vote VE, then come back near deadline and after thinking things through made sure VE got lynched? In fact, I need to read D3 again... You just seemed passive during that day. But I'm not sure to remember correctly. And excuse me, but I want to get things right. | ||
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We know that BL was town. Does it make sense for scum marv to give a town read on this guy ? No... Does it make sense for scum Hapa to set a BL lynch ? Yes... Also, VE, Z-Bo and Hapa were ready to lynch jay after VE fakeclaim | ||
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Munk-E newbie game as town, lynched D1 And this Munk-E this game Munk-E is more active and trying to figure things out, he doesn't restrain himself to only one player. And he has scumreads. | ||
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I find it strange that nobody is having doubt about me right now. Anyway, I'm reading the thread over and over again. @ grush Could you vote ? @ Z-Bo How could you explain that you only went after town players during this game ? cases against me, vivax, WBG, jay but nothing about adam or VE. Please show me some of your posts if I'm wrong. Also I need you to give me your scumteams. I'm torn right now. | ||
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On December 24 2012 02:22 grush57 wrote: I think they have been trying to seperate eachother by making cases against eachother. I also think so right now... | ||
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On December 24 2012 02:59 marvellosity wrote: Djo, phone posting now, but will be on a bit later. From my perspective it's hapa and z bo or hapa and you. Do me a favour, if you think grush could be scum, try to make a convincing case for me. Or if you really need me to talk about grush, say so. Hapa himself posted that post from Austin which detailed things on him @ marv I have some posts in grush filter that have really startled me. Why did you think claiming now was a good idea ? | ||
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Also I'm taking the backseat because I'm on vacation and enjoying pretty much being in France. But I'm going to be here until the lynch deadline, the thing is that I'm mostly reading the game right now. | ||
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On December 24 2012 03:14 marvellosity wrote: What's the use in not claiming now. It's just full disclosure of information I have at lylo. Night actions on me are not something we need to worry about anymore. Would you rather I had kept it to myself, if so, why?? My problem is that you gave it as an excuse for not being dead yet when the weird thing is that you didn't get shot at all. Would you have known it if you had been shot ? | ||
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On December 20 2012 12:44 Z-BosoN wrote: Allright dudes, the lack of Nk's is because we either have a vet (which I doubt) or mafia just chose to stack (more likely). We'll find out at night, anyways. gut reads gut reads. Can't you show me why you think I'm scum? Is this too much? Eagerly awaiting tomorrow. @ Z-Bo Why did you think that we could have 2 vets ? If you doubted it, why mention it ? And why did you not comment on marv's claim then ? | ||
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On December 18 2012 12:10 grush57 wrote: You could also wifom that he did that to throw false leads. Maybe he knew that association case between VE and jay was wrong On December 20 2012 05:26 grush57 wrote: It's definitely in the three of Z-Bo Jay and Hapa. I'm fine with all, but I'm more sure of a Jay and Hapa scumteam. Here I find strange that he doesn't even mention BL, he seems like he was prescient of what the situation was going to be. I don't like his 180 on me so much, but it's true that I've been really trying to show that I was town D3. That's all I have regarding grush... | ||
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On December 24 2012 04:44 marvellosity wrote: what do you mean by the bolded? basically you don't have very much negative to say about grush. With "some of his posts look like he knows what's going on" - sure why not. grush isn't a total idiot, his intuitive reads can be pretty decent, so it's not right to be surprised when he says sensible things. What I meant was that he was correct about what was going to happen. So, I don't know if it's because he has extra info or because he has good intuition. So I'm uneasy right now. | ||
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On December 24 2012 05:13 marvellosity wrote: obviously. jay flipped town rather than scum which he should have. your job, whether you're in france or not, is to convince me you're the townie and not z-bo. that's by far the less obvious thing for me right now. Ok, I can do that. You look quite confident that Hapa is going to flip scum. Would you mind to share what's the most definite argument you have for a scum Hapa ? For me, it's the way he behaves D3. His vote of VE comes out of nowhere, as well as his previous town read on VE. Also he didn't defend me during D3. The fact that he was concerned with the KP is a good sign. And of course Munk-E filter. | ||
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Regarding Z-Bo, he has totally ignored VE from quite a long time in the game. On December 13 2012 12:04 Z-BosoN wrote: No, tbh I don't think vivax is scum anymore. Despite his weird-as-fuck vote on Adam, the rest of his play feels to me like he is involved. Jay isn't looking too hot, and neither is Djo. VE is also someone I have to look more carefully, as well as yourself. Point a gun to my head and I'd say jay. So, here, Z-Bo is saying that he needs to look at VE and Hapa carefully. But does he really do it ? Here is Z-Bo stance on the game On December 16 2012 04:42 Z-BosoN wrote: Godamn it... Here's my take at the game at the moment. *snip* tl;dr
I didn't proof read, but tried to make it easier to understand as I was writing this. Let me know what you guys think. Hapa is added here by elimination and VE is hard to read... And here comes Z-Bo after my case on VE On December 17 2012 12:07 Z-BosoN wrote: Okay, I'm down to lynching VE. I don't like how he disappeared and hasn't really responded to anything. He doesn't seem interested in the game AT ALL. If you guys recall, we hadn't interacted at all up until he noted my "scumslip". He then made his "case" on me: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=81#1607 And parked his vote on me. This came at a time when I had some pressure on me. I agree a lot with Djo's point on how he is really just going with the flow. Note how his play is in complete contrast with his game on Liquid City. When he found me to be scum, he spent quite some time interacting with me, prodding around asking other people (BC) what they thought of me, etc. He then gave some attention elsewhere when I wasnt getting any traction. Take a look at the interaction that begins in the last 4-5 posts of this page: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=371260&user=117978¤tpage=8 And some in the next page as well. This game it's complete and utter crap. He gives a crap reason (that basically surmounts to: I'm prodding people everywhere) and doesnt push me, doesnt do shit. He parks his vote on me and keeps it there, saying later just how he'd be down to lynch me. Doesn't ask other people what they think of me, doesn't try to push his "scum read". There's also that whole Palmar wants him dead thing. I'm curious to see what his next move is. And seriously, if Hapa flips red, it means that I bussed 2 of my teammates during day3. When I just could accept to be lynched and let someone else get the credit for it. Please also note who Z-Bo has tunneled during this game: Vivax, Tunkeg, WBG and me (all town players) And then suddendly today he started tunneling Hapa. I don't see town Z-Bo failing that hard to find scum... | ||
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On December 24 2012 06:41 Z-BosoN wrote: Regarding ve, just read and stop repeating things ive gone over And what about this "we might have a veteran part" ? | ||
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On December 24 2012 06:25 Hapahauli wrote: @ Djo I'd consider joining me on marv. He should not be alive right now. You can rationalize his behavior however you want, but actions speak louder than words. When one of the game's best town players is alive at LYLO with this rapport... ... alarm bells should be going off. Marv is scum. As for a Hapa + Z-Bo scumteam, think about it this way. The concensus regarding my lynch is that my "scummate" bussed me. If Z-Boson were my scumbuddy, the strategy we'd be using is insane. Our "plan" would be: 1) Bus Hapa for 5-6 days to build town credit 2) Light all that town-cred on fire, instead risking a gamble to win the game today by lynching one of the best town players on TL mafia. Yes that's sane. Keep thinking what you're thinking and town's going to lose. I disagree, you could go all-in today. It's win or lose. Also marv pushed Tunkeg lynch. He really wanted his lynch. I don't care if Tunkeg was town or not. Why fight Palmar over who to lynch as mafia when the alternative target was also town ? And, yeah, jay lynch, everybody was on it. I cannot blame anyone for lynching jay given how he defended himself. | ||
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On December 24 2012 06:46 Z-BosoN wrote: Whats so suspicious about me rationalizing the nks? Because you were the only thinking that we could have two vets, which could be the case if marv is telling the truth. And you didn't react to his claim when you said before that you doubted that we could have 2 veterans. | ||
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On December 24 2012 06:48 Hapahauli wrote: Why would I go all-in with Z-Bo? It's not like was an apparent lynch candidate for a hypothetical tomorrow Mm. I disagree. Thrawn and Vivax would have gone after Z-Bo, and yeah, both of them are dead. Thrawn was convinced that one scum had to be among the people not voting Adam D1. This led him to write his Z-Bo case before, and he mentioned it again before being killed. Vivax has been tunneled but Z-Bo a lot this game, so I guess that he could have found him suspicious at some point. | ||
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On December 24 2012 06:54 Hapahauli wrote: But that's the thing - your strategy is not coherent. We eliminated all the opposition to Z-Bo... then decided to go all out today? If that was our NK plan, Z-Bo would bus me today and he would be our endgame player. I still don't understand why you think a town marv is alive at lylo. I don't know. It could be easy not to kill him to bring this argument. It's like reverse framing. Today is all or nothing imo, so why not bring marv along. Shit, I hate my position right now. | ||
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Marv thought that the scumteam was Hapa/jay/Djo. I understand him being wrong about jay and me, because we are scummy town players. I don't know, I really like his reaction to WBG's bluff, when you did not even write a post. Tell me why a scum marv would have had a town read on BL ? How does it serve him ? | ||
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On December 24 2012 07:01 Hapahauli wrote: Do you know what the first post in my Mario Mini Mafia QT was? http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/8tUWEsHeiEQ "Default rule - Marv dies N1. That is all." Killing marv is my #1 goal in all my scumgames. He's the player that's most familiar with my scum meta. That's also shows how much respect I have for his townplay - he will eat a scumteam alive if left alive for a long time. So why did you keep a town read on marv for all game ? | ||
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Y u no here ? | ||
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I thought that he had you as scum. He can prove his innocence tomorrow... | ||
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On December 24 2012 07:10 Hapahauli wrote: Because marv and Grush are going "Lol hapa + Z-Boson scum!" Should be pretty obvious to him who the scumteam is right now. Why do you defend him ? | ||
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On December 24 2012 07:13 Hapahauli wrote: Howabout this Djo - I'm CONVINCED that marv + grush are the scumteam. You have some pretty heavy doubts about grush yourself. I'm more than willing to consolidate on either. Blew, I'm chosing between you or marv. I like it better like that... | ||
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On December 24 2012 07:01 Z-BosoN wrote: Vote updated. Djo im sure u can figure this out. Will bbl @ Z-Bo Don't you have Hapa in the scumteam ? Why are you getting all worried that we lynch Hapa today ? | ||
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On December 24 2012 07:16 Hapahauli wrote: Fine with me. So rationalize how marv is alive? Also work through the NKs - how have players like thrawn, vivax, and debears died before a marv that everyone in the game has had a town-read on? But I could ask the same question to you: how the fuck are you still alive ? It's not like you are bad compared to marv... | ||
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On December 24 2012 07:26 Hapahauli wrote: Don't you love how magically active grush is all of a sudden? It's pretty funny. I could say the same from Z-Bo. | ||
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He is not killed N1 because of the fear of the JK He is not killed N2 because he has Djodref as main target for the lynch and VE as town He is not killed N3 because of scum holding the KP He is not killed N4 for the WIFOM, So, yeah, it's possible for marv to be town. | ||
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On December 24 2012 07:47 Z-BosoN wrote: Djo. If you were scum hapa. You are bullshitting ur way out of a lynch. Someone (me) is pressuring you to reconsider a town read, giving you a golden chance to open another mislynch. Why would scum hapa give maintain this strong town read? Its shooting yourself in the foot. It makes no sense from a scum perspective. I dont care how big a case i made on him, im not ignoring this very important fact. In my pov its obvious now who the scums are, like hapa said. Kill marv Which town read ? The town read on me ? How did you change your mind exactly ? | ||
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On December 24 2012 08:02 Z-BosoN wrote: Djo, i feel u skimmed my interaction with hapa. Reread plz. U are the town read Yeah, and your scumteam was Hapa/marv or Hapa/Djodref at the end of your interaction. I didn't really follow how you changed your mind on Hapa... Why are you getting so worried that I get things right or not today ? Your case against Hapa was good, no ? | ||
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When and why ? Which post made you change your mind ? | ||
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On December 24 2012 08:18 marvellosity wrote: you're just making crap up about nightkills. are you really reduced to wifom tlike this? The thing is, both Vivax and you were concerned about you being alive so long. But that's WIFOM... | ||
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On December 24 2012 08:19 marvellosity wrote: MAFIA COULD HAVE A ROLECOP. Read. Djo. Read. I know, I think that Z-Bo is the rolecop. | ||
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My problem is that all of you had VE as town during D2. Z-Bo and Hapa scumteam make more sense than marv and grush scumteam, if I didmiss the whole marv is still alive thing. | ||
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congratulations to you guys ! Jay is indeed the best mislynch I have ever seen. And yeah, I'm sorry Hapa ^^ I'm glad I got Z-Bo as scum on the end though ^^ I'll know better for my next game, but I think I missed some good hints at both of you being scum. Marv being alive and not taking the leadership, I'll remember Z-Bo flying under the radar and not finding scum, I'll remember as well We should have lynched VE day2 when he went pants on head against Clarity, I was sire | ||
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On December 24 2012 14:23 jaybrundage wrote: Huh i was right with my gut read about z-boson he just felt useless lol. GJ scum team. Ill be honest tho i thought Djo might flip scum @ jay yeah, but next time, please take the time to write a case at least. You really didn't fight at all ^^ | ||
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On December 24 2012 12:36 grush57 wrote: I request everyone give me a :gj grush you didnt troll and did pretty good, or i hate you, bad player No, good job on looking town. You did better than me... | ||
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On December 25 2012 01:14 Z-BosoN wrote: Djo, being wrong is not being scum I didnt fly under the radar (at least not for the later days), its just you guys didnt pressure me at all. Thrawn just made a case that had some decent arguments but were buried in many exagerations and misinterpretationss that made it easy to defend. Djo you kept making non-arguments such as me speculating and me being wrong (even when i was pushong someone you thought to be scum). You also found me scum with hpa, which was very far-fetched, you just had too much confirmation bias to listen to anything that we were saying By flying under the radar, I just wanted to say that you were not in people's face. And the feeling I got from you is that you were less engaged and that you didn't interact so much with people. Also your cases were a little off topic. Yeah, I was having confirmation bias, but I was very hesitant the last day. All of you could be scum with VE because you all gave silly reason for him to be town at some point. I should have seen that the fact that VE was poking at you (he had call both marv and you scum) and that you let the shit fly when VE was clearly scummy should have been a good indicator. And yeah, I respect you, so you not finding scum is a good hint at a scum Z-Bo Obviously, it doesn't work for everybody. | ||
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And yeah, I was having confirmation bias | ||
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On December 25 2012 02:39 Z-BosoN wrote: So if all of us gave a shitty reason for him to be town, then giving a shitty reason for him to be town is not a good scum tell =/ Just as a forewarning, my next scum play will be quite different from this one, thanks for the heads up The thing is that you said something like: "I have to look at this guy" and you didn't give any follow-up. And suddenly you have a case ready after my big case against him. That was something I explained here : On December 24 2012 05:58 Djodref wrote: @ marv Regarding Z-Bo, he has totally ignored VE from quite a long time in the game. So, here, Z-Bo is saying that he needs to look at VE and Hapa carefully. But does he really do it ? Here is Z-Bo stance on the game Hapa is added here by elimination and VE is hard to read... And here comes Z-Bo after my case on VE And seriously, if Hapa flips red, it means that I bussed 2 of my teammates during day3. When I just could accept to be lynched and let someone else get the credit for it. Please also note who Z-Bo has tunneled during this game: Vivax, Tunkeg, WBG and me (all town players) And then suddendly today he started tunneling Hapa. I don't see town Z-Bo failing that hard to find scum... Also, you have him as possible scum, and you don't give a shit when he call you scum for free. Anyway, I'm looking forward to the next game we play together, but you got me fooled for quite a long time, so really congratz. Also I would like to present my excuses for not having voted against marv. I should have kept it simple. He fooled me this time, but it's not going to happen again. It was the first time to play with scum marv I should have been more involded at the end as well, but this game had exhausted me. | ||
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On December 25 2012 03:29 Z-BosoN wrote: Djo, I just chose to feast on the fact that VE ignored me in the past couple of games we played. In case someone entioned that (like hapa did), I would simply cite the scum qt in CT as I did. Also, I think jay completely ingored him as well, despite him calling jay scum in day one. I also remember I said ill have to look at someone else and didn't do that, so that's a really small tell. Also, if you reallly thought I didn't give VE attention because he was my scummate, why the hell would I give scummate hapa so much attention, if this were any decent tell? Anyways, it's not. Me and marv interacted a fair bunch this game. Yeah, but you interacted as town players having town reads on each other. VE had been calling both of you scum basically for free, so I don't think you should have let this shit fly. But, yeah, it's a small tell. Regarding jay, he is really the best mislynch I have ever seen ^^ | ||
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On December 25 2012 03:19 Dandel Ion wrote: The obviously fake vet claim should have tipped you off, Djo. I think you might remember a certain newbie game with an equally shitty and convenient claim, by Yours Truly. Yeah, I know, It was too convenient. But I was really torn. Did you see Munk-E filter ? Also it would have been the perfect way to frame marv, not to kill him. This claim wasn't making so much sense, but I've been fooled once again ^^ | ||
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On December 25 2012 18:35 Bluelightz wrote: Sorry guys I had to be modkilled any my poor performance :/ I think I agree with marv here and you getting modkilled was a big advantage for town. It's too bad you got demotivated, I hope you are going to get more time for your next game ! | ||
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