Still around, doing WORK. I was concerned before about Lazermonkey's posts during they night. He has posted nothing or next-to-nothing N1 and N2, followed by a read post at the end. He responded:On December 07 2012 05:56 Lazermonkey wrote:
Regarding my reads comming in late, that's what I always do. I feel like talking too much about reads during the night will help scum getting the best possible shot off.
Well, that's all good and well. Seems easy to verify whether or not Lazermonkey usually keeps his reads to himself during the night, yes?
Name of the game colored to match his alignment. Some posts omitted, EBWOPs, responses to specific questions, but I tried to pull out any posts that were (1) read lists or (2) analysis at night
Mad Men -
N1 posts - + Show Spoiler +On August 05 2012 18:54 Lazermonkey wrote:CountDropula is appearing scummy and what not during D1... Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 08:19 CountDropula wrote:On August 03 2012 10:41 Zephirdd wrote:On August 03 2012 10:36 JingleHell wrote:On August 03 2012 10:34 prplhz wrote:
And we're off.
This is a 23 player game and I will not be able to handle it if there is a 130 page spamfest between a couple of people before night1. Seriously, condense your god damn posting. That said, there's also a couple of new/newer people on the list. You guys remember to post your thoughts and stuff on the game. No one here bites. Do you bite if we ask nicely? Zephirdd, don't you think there's danger of an early bandwagon voting with no cause like that? It's hard to defend yourself against a vote for no reason. FoS Zephirdd What. If you really think an early bandwagon would come from a vote like that, then you are silly. He doesn't even have to defend himself against non-existant accusations. ##unvote
##vote JingleHell Zephirdd's change from one unfounded vote to another tells me that 1. He doesn't care who is lynched 2. He doesn't feel comfortable dealing with pressure, so he fires back on jinglehell counterproductively. On August 03 2012 20:02 Zephirdd wrote:
Masoned players should claim IMO.
masons themselves shouldn't unless that would save his life.
toad, why improvise? Are you feeling some kind of pressure that stops you from making a decent post? On August 03 2012 20:27 Zephirdd wrote:
What you said makes sense. Mason'd people shouldnt claim :s
wbg mason does sound scary too
Another example of an unsubstantiated position-taking. After a legit response from toad, another switch. He sounds way too meek in the latter quote. Any objections/further evidence backed by specific evidence? Cause I'm leaning toward voting zephirdd. His first post. Starts off with saying that Zephs behavior could be explained by two ways, both which are to some degree anti-town moves. Yet he ignores that Jingle's reason to FoS him was very weak. Zephird's vote on prphlz was clearly a joke move, and there wasn't a reastic chance for someone to get bandwagoned for that, especially not in such a big game. The most resonable explanation for him voting Jingle was to put pressure on him after putting up such a weak FoS on him. Dropula completely ignored this, which would imply that he is making Zephird look worse than he actually did. Changing your opinion is not necesarly a scum trait. He is testing the waters here. Wants to hear everybody elses thought's on Zephird. He is leaning towards voting him. He does however end up not. Why? In worst case you could simply unvote him, no harm done. Note the timing of the post as well, right when the Zephird shit-storm is at it's peak. Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 10:16 CountDropula wrote:On August 04 2012 08:59 Zephirdd wrote:On August 04 2012 08:19 CountDropula wrote:On August 03 2012 10:41 Zephirdd wrote:On August 03 2012 10:36 JingleHell wrote:On August 03 2012 10:34 prplhz wrote:
And we're off.
This is a 23 player game and I will not be able to handle it if there is a 130 page spamfest between a couple of people before night1. Seriously, condense your god damn posting. That said, there's also a couple of new/newer people on the list. You guys remember to post your thoughts and stuff on the game. No one here bites. Do you bite if we ask nicely? Zephirdd, don't you think there's danger of an early bandwagon voting with no cause like that? It's hard to defend yourself against a vote for no reason. FoS Zephirdd What. If you really think an early bandwagon would come from a vote like that, then you are silly. He doesn't even have to defend himself against non-existant accusations. ##unvote
##vote JingleHell Zephirdd's change from one unfounded vote to another tells me that 1. He doesn't care who is lynched 2. He doesn't feel comfortable dealing with pressure, so he fires back on jinglehell counterproductively. On August 03 2012 20:02 Zephirdd wrote:
Masoned players should claim IMO.
masons themselves shouldn't unless that would save his life.
toad, why improvise? Are you feeling some kind of pressure that stops you from making a decent post? On August 03 2012 20:27 Zephirdd wrote:
What you said makes sense. Mason'd people shouldnt claim :s
wbg mason does sound scary too
Another example of an unsubstantiated position-taking. After a legit response from toad, another switch. He sounds way too meek in the latter quote. Any objections/further evidence backed by specific evidence? Cause I'm leaning toward voting zephirdd. I just noticed this gem. Finally that paid off. Let me explain it to you. It was 5min into the game. I didn't even bother casting those votes on the voting thread. Why? Because they didn't matter, and I'd change them later anyway. It's not that I don't care, it's just that by creating a stupid vote, you take reactions from people. People like you, who is trying to take something as silly as that as an excuse to vote me, when in fact there is nothing there that makes me scum. I'm not afraid of having opinions change, as no town should be. My opinions did change quickly - and that's pretty damn common for a town player. You are creating bullshit reasoning to jump into the wagon easily. Nice first post scum. ##unvote (talismania)
##vote CountDropula Your burst of emotion is suspicious. If your play in the first 5 min paid off, why are you continuing the same behavior in the very response where you out it to the thread? Isn't it over? You never mentioned my second point in your response. I'm not the only one who is suspicious of you, but I don't know about a bandwagon. Just give everyone some concrete defense, we will determine that you are green, and this won't take up any more time. Second post. His vote against Jingle was NOT the same thing as his vote against prphlz. Also, I'm not sure what he means by never mentioning his second point but I really can't find anything Zephird didn't answer in his post. Still throwing shit at Zephird for things he is not responsible for. He then does some super back and forth vote jumoing without explaining himslef. 1. Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 03:16 CountDropula wrote:
I really think the most important issue for us right now is getting people active. Were giving mafia too much space to hide.
Nevertheless, I'm voting wbg right now though that can change.
For sure watching zeph though, but I need a better case. 2. just 1 1/2 hour later, without any reason what so ever. Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 04:42 CountDropula wrote:
##Unvote: Wherebugsgo
##vote: Talismania
3. Still no reason. Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 08:48 CountDropula wrote:
##unvote: Talismania
##vote:prplhz 4. When BKE confronts him with this hillarious voteing pattern, he respondes with: Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 16:08 CountDropula wrote:On August 05 2012 12:15 BroodKingEXE wrote:On August 05 2012 03:16 CountDropula wrote:
I really think the most important issue for us right now is getting people active. Were giving mafia too much space to hide.
Nevertheless, I'm voting wbg right now though that can change.
For sure watching zeph though, but I need a better case. When you get back can you shed some light on your WBG vote? Up to this post you had only mentioned Zephirdd. Funny post considering you (and I) were basically inactive up to that point. I felt my votes on Talismania and wbg were too based on cherry picking and jumping the gun. The reason I didn't vote for zephirdd even though I had only mentioned him is that I'd like to back up my suspicions of him more thoroughly. Did not mason. Hope that helps. Gives some really weak reason for his vote/unvote on Talis/WBG. Says that the evidence for voting Zeph was too slim yet he was able to vote prphlz without any reason what so ever. Dropula, unless you give some really good response I will make sure to get you lynched tomorrow. On August 06 2012 00:39 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 23:28 CountDropula wrote:
Not a smurf, I'm new.
Changing votes like that was a mistake. Honestly i was too hasty, and that's it.
Made a mistake, but is it really that suspicious? Yes, it absolutely does not make any sense from a town point of view to do that. And still, we don't even know who you are suspicious of. TBH, the only reason I'm not convinced you are scum is the fact that you scum team should've told you to stop this nonesense a long time ago. On August 06 2012 05:37 Lazermonkey wrote:
Okay, kinda changed my mind and I'm actually starting to like the kill-grush plan. It's impossible to get a read in him anyway if he is going to play like this. Also, a big bonus is that WBG should be somewhat confirmed town if he flips scum.
As for Dropula, his only defense against all of my suspicion was that he was inexperienced and that it was all a mistake. This can be explained in 2 ways.
1. He is inexperienced.
2. He is scum.
If he is town he will most likely be left by scum unless he improves his play by an miraculously amount. If he is scum... Then he is scum.
For all Vigis, I hope you shot these guys tonight, as lynching them tomorrow will not really generate any discussion if they keep on playing like they've done so far.
On August 06 2012 06:13 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 05:56 CountDropula wrote:On August 06 2012 05:37 Lazermonkey wrote:
Okay, kinda changed my mind and I'm actually starting to like the kill-grush plan. It's impossible to get a read in him anyway if he is going to play like this. Also, a big bonus is that WBG should be somewhat confirmed town if he flips scum.
As for Dropula, his only defense against all of my suspicion was that he was inexperienced and that it was all a mistake. This can be explained in 2 ways.
1. He is inexperienced.
2. He is scum.
If he is town he will most likely be left by scum unless he improves his play by an miraculously amount. If he is scum... Then he is scum.
For all Vigis, I hope you shot these guys tonight, as lynching them tomorrow will not really generate any discussion if they keep on playing like they've done so far.
Which explanation do you like best? Inexperience or scum? Lolwut. Well, since I want to lynch you I'd much rather prefer you to be scum : ). You aren't helping town at all atm. If the only defense you have is the noob card then you must die. Preferably sooner than later. Unless you do some actual scum hunting, which it doesn't look like you are trying to. If you do not get shot tonight you will have 48 hours to convince me and everyone else why you shouldn't be the one to be lynched * hint * make some analysis * hint *. On August 06 2012 06:17 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 06:09 grush57 wrote:
Wait till tommorow, everything will be explained. Why? There is a decent chance you will get shot tonight IMO and if you are withholding info there is a chance we will never know what you were going to say. If you are mason/masoned you should 100% claim right now. On August 06 2012 09:13 Lazermonkey wrote:
Lurker is a very broad term. A player like Xsebt I would highly recommend not to vigi kill, while his filter is empty enough, he does at least try to make a post and we will be able to judge him later on. However grush or Dropula I'm 100% okay with getting shot. I looked through some of grush older games and he does indeed just do this no matter what alignment he is. The way I see it we have about 5/21~24% chance of him flipping scum. These are not good odds. But arguing that shooting grush tonight because he has a 76% of flipping town is stupid. Why? Because you are then Ignoring the fact that once we get to lategame with him we are in trouble as there is simply no way scum would ever decide to NK grush unless he is confirmed blue. Our chances of getting a proper read on grush not increase as the game goes on. Really. If grush actually wanted to play this game the way it was supposed to, he would've done that a long time ago.
Highlights - Makes a case on CountDropula. Discuss vigi shots. Looks through Grush's games and discusses vigi shot on Grush vs. letting game play out.
N2 Posts - + Show Spoiler +On August 08 2012 17:49 Lazermonkey wrote:
Just woke up. This sucked -.-.
Just a quick thought for now, wouldn't it be good to vigi kill Glasse, Zentor or Dropula? Assuming there are vigis left. These guys are obviously in no danger of getting modkilled but on the other hand they play bad all of them. And even though that might not necesarily mean that they are scum because they play bad both as scum and as town, we will need to kill them sooner or later if they are scum. And it doesn't seem like we are going to get any wiser the longer the game goes on if they are playing like this. On August 09 2012 04:00 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 23:50 talismania wrote:
@Lazer Don't vig bad townies. Dumb at this point. Vig people you think are scum. How do you know they are town_ Dropula is probebly a bad shot, as he is most likely town. However I feel both Glasse and Zentor have a decent chance of flipping scum. And IF they are scum, we need to lynch them sooner or later anyways. However, I think the best shot atm would be VE or Hassy as even though one of them flips town it would almost guarante that the other one is scum. Jingle is probebly not scum, partly because I feel it's unlikely that scum would let him have that role, partly because of his activity in the mason logs. Toad feels town, at least for now. So the only real possibility where both VE and Hassy could be town(assuming Jingle is town here) is if scum only got 1 mason and that mason is Toad. But this is a stretch.
Highlights - Less posts, but pretty much ALL he posted N2 was concerning vigi shots. Reads, where to shoot, who to kill.
N3 Posts - + Show Spoiler +On August 11 2012 17:23 Lazermonkey wrote:If there aren't more than 2 DT then it probebly doesn't matter who you check today. 1 will get RB and 1 will most likely get double stacked. However I guess there are a possibilty that scum tries to luck shot one DT + someone else. In that case we just need to pray that the medic(s) chose the right person to protect. Also, to use Talis WIFOM defense against him, if me, Zeph and Dropula were all scum and you are miller it means that instead of pulling the free misslynch today on you, we decided to fakeclaim DTs in order to buss our scum buddy who wasn't even clse to get lynched? You say it's for massive town cred but why would we do this today and not tomorrow...? Obviously this is by no means a proof of any thing but if Talis is allowed to defend himself with poor logic, so am I. Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 15:07 talismania wrote:
pps toad would you make a setup with 2 DTs, 2 millers and 5 redcheckable scum? Do you really think that's what's going on here is as simple as that there are two DTs with correct redchecks out there? No, I don't think that. Tbh I think it's likely that we have more than 3 millers as well. But I don't think that you are a miller. So long story short please ignore Talis untill D4 lynch. He knows he is about to get lynched and just want to fuck with us as much as possible before he dies. If he for some reason actually flips miller, we can start digging in what he have been saying. On August 12 2012 06:44 Lazermonkey wrote:
Well, you called me and CD scum so you obviously aren't speaking the truth. I'm sorry but all your arguments are either not even arguements or based on the most insane WIFOM there is. There are no scum hunting here. Using arguments like yours could make everyone look scum. How you and Heir are able to use the fact that CD used the word ''buss'' as a reason for him to be scum IS BEYOND MY UNDERSTANDING. You aren't spending time scum hunting, you are shitting up the thread with shit. I am going to bed in just a moment but if people really feel like there is even a point in arguing against you then I can gladly do that tomorrow. Why am I convinced that I will survive untill tomorrow? Because shooting me is probebly the worst alternative of all remaining members of town(maybe not including some of the lurkers). If scum shoot me tonight, it's a benefit for town as you will be a dead guy when the lynch happends.
If your town I am litterly sad IRL because you don't make any sense what so ever. But you claim to be good as town so thus you must be scum by your own logic.
Highlights - First quote discusses DT targets, calls for a lynch on talis.
N4 Posts - + Show Spoiler +On August 15 2012 03:39 Lazermonkey wrote:BKE: Where are your scum reads? Looking through your filter this is the attempts to scum hunt I can find: You were suspicious of Errandor. This is the only time you've ever done an actual case on someone You were suspicious of Dropula but didn't push his lynch the slightest. You are suspicious of Glasse but doesn't push his lynch the slightest. You are suspicious of Zentor but doesn't push his lynch the slightest. You flip-flop alot about VE, finally deciding to vote him. You don't push him a single bit, however when he is finally lynched you write this: Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 01:57 BroodKingEXE wrote:On August 15 2012 00:58 Toadesstern wrote:On August 14 2012 22:02 marvellosity wrote:
i'll quite happily sit back, do jack shit, and let town burn, if you want, toad. That's not it. It's just that the reasoning for lynching WBG and Prplhz came down to "they should be better than what they showed us". The reasoning for lynching Zeph and VE always has been "they're weird, not necessarily scummy yet but they somehow manage to get these weird phrases in their posts that really sound like they're not town and they do that a lot. Not sure what to make of it though". At least that has been the reasoning for me (check my mason-logs, I mentioned it a couple of times when talking about Zeph I think) when judging them and you're starting to give me the same feeling VE and Zephirdd gave me, unlike WBG, prplhz and Talis did. Keep doing what you're doing If I'm wrong neither of us is going to get shot and we're both happy, aren't we? :p VE wasnt playing to his town meta, at all. Even when he isnt as active, he seems to try more than he did in this game. In all he made two cases and his scum hunting felt suboptimal for VE. He sounded a bit too apologetic at the Erandorr lynch. My spider senses are tingeling! Now you sound like VE was obvious scum even though you were very unsure of his alignment before the lynch. It's like your trying to take town cred for the VE lynch. Also, you never answered all of Hopeless case against you, just one bit of it. You have clearly seen the case yet you don't answer to some bits of it. Why is that? If you don't agree with the accusations against you, tell us why. To Vigis: I'm assuming there is an infinite shot vigialante in this game, although I could be wrong. I recomend you to shoot BKE, although I'm okay with shooting Hassy as well. Even if you don't agree with me I strongly recomend you to at least shoot someone. It's essential that we get the number of scum from 3 to 2 as fast as possible so that we can decrease their KP. On August 15 2012 04:26 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 03:59 BroodKingEXE wrote:On August 15 2012 03:39 Lazermonkey wrote:BKE: Where are your scum reads? Looking through your filter this is the attempts to scum hunt I can find: You were suspicious of Errandor. This is the only time you've ever done an actual case on someone You were suspicious of Dropula but didn't push his lynch the slightest. You are suspicious of Glasse but doesn't push his lynch the slightest. You are suspicious of Zentor but doesn't push his lynch the slightest. You flip-flop alot about VE, finally deciding to vote him. You don't push him a single bit, however when he is finally lynched you write this: On August 15 2012 01:57 BroodKingEXE wrote:On August 15 2012 00:58 Toadesstern wrote:On August 14 2012 22:02 marvellosity wrote:
i'll quite happily sit back, do jack shit, and let town burn, if you want, toad. That's not it. It's just that the reasoning for lynching WBG and Prplhz came down to "they should be better than what they showed us". The reasoning for lynching Zeph and VE always has been "they're weird, not necessarily scummy yet but they somehow manage to get these weird phrases in their posts that really sound like they're not town and they do that a lot. Not sure what to make of it though". At least that has been the reasoning for me (check my mason-logs, I mentioned it a couple of times when talking about Zeph I think) when judging them and you're starting to give me the same feeling VE and Zephirdd gave me, unlike WBG, prplhz and Talis did. Keep doing what you're doing If I'm wrong neither of us is going to get shot and we're both happy, aren't we? :p VE wasnt playing to his town meta, at all. Even when he isnt as active, he seems to try more than he did in this game. In all he made two cases and his scum hunting felt suboptimal for VE. He sounded a bit too apologetic at the Erandorr lynch. My spider senses are tingeling! Now you sound like VE was obvious scum even though you were very unsure of his alignment before the lynch. It's like your trying to take town cred for the VE lynch. Also, you never answered all of Hopeless case against you, just one bit of it. You have clearly seen the case yet you don't answer to some bits of it. Why is that? If you don't agree with the accusations against you, tell us why. To Vigis: I'm assuming there is an infinite shot vigialante in this game, although I could be wrong. I recomend you to shoot BKE, although I'm okay with shooting Hassy as well. Even if you don't agree with me I strongly recomend you to at least shoot someone. It's essential that we get the number of scum from 3 to 2 as fast as possible so that we can decrease their KP. Drop DT claimed (in the thread, not through a mason  ) so Im not going to write up a case on him. Ive posted some things on Zentor I'm sure. Glasse I should build a case on and will, so far I've just got a scummy vibe off him. Kinda thought you could infer the last two points: I'm not saying you should write I case on either VE or Dropula as they are dead... My point is that you have only taken 1 strong stance this whole game. Also define ''some'' in ''Ive posted some things on Zentor I'm sure.''. Because you havn't really. This is your posts regarding Zentor: Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 14:32 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Does anyone else find Zentor's voting pattern tricky at the end. Seems like he wanted to be on the townie side of the lynch. He hasn't really done much of anything in terms of scumhunting, and his vote for Eran and VE should have been crystal clear as he had suspicions about VE before. Zentor's playing to his scum meta to top it off. You say that he is suspicious because of his voting pattern. Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 08:23 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Finished looking over a few people. Scum list so far:
WBG - the Erandorr thing obviously puts him in the red. What really is blaring red is that he is refusing to take a stance on anything, not making cases and complaining about the game. At this point its a ploy for him to sit back and let us townies rip each other apart. No longer!
MrZentor: He's done nothing in this game except a very fishy vote switch to Erandorr yesterday. With no reasoning behind it.
Hopeless - He's super wishy washy with his accusations jumping on and off them in every post. Plus he's being defensive of WBG.
WBG is my first canidate, but I'll elaborate on my others if needs be. Nothing new. Show nested quote +On August 13 2012 15:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Was not expecting Talis to be vig shot. Fine with the claim being held off, at least till we know the outcome of this lynch. VE, based on Talis' and marvs reasoning. My list is VE, Glasse, and Zentor. Still working on connecting up the pieces, Zentors meta makes reading him a bit tricky but I find the Zentor Zeph votes confirming an Erandorr lynch pretty damning. VE fits into the story since he was the second canidate. Still nothing new. These 3 posts are the only time you mention Zentor. You aren't contributing anything because the only thing that you have to back up your suspicion is his vote swaping. This have already been mentioned by several people in the thread. While I don't think there is anything scummy with agree about someone being scummy(I think those votes as something scummy as well)however why is it that you havn't tried to push the lynch on Zentor one single bit even though he have been one of your scum reads for several days now? If he was scum wouldn't you want him to be dead? On August 15 2012 09:58 Lazermonkey wrote:
So I feel there is a decent chance that I will die today. That is unless both Marv and Toad are town which seems somewhat likely but not certain. TBH if someone of them doesn't get shot tonight I will get suspicious. They are the only vets left alive and are the guys with the most contribution by far in the thread. Other than that, my reads are somewhat unchanged. BKE is scum and Hope is probebly town.
Highlights - Actively engages BKE, questioning him. Drops a few reads at the end, thinking he'll die (he does)
Overall Conclusion: Lazermonkey was town this game, never ONCE stayed quiet at night and posted a short list of reads late. He actively discussed vigi targets multiple nights, discussed DT targets another, gave reads/made cases. Completely different from his behavior here.
Newbie Mini XX -
N1 Posts - + Show Spoiler +On July 07 2012 19:06 Lazermonkey wrote:
Wow, such a good D1. Didn't really expect him to be scum but everything went better than expected!
I'm not too keen on all this night discussion. A question you should probebly ask yourself when posting in the middle of the night ''Does it actually help town if I post right now, or can I just as well wait untill 1 minute before deadline to post''. So, posting your reads right now is not a good idea as it will only help scum to find an optimal target. Exception would be Evul or Hapa as these guys are as confirmed townies as you can possibly get without actually flipping. Asking questions etc. tho is 100% fine imo.
As for the medic, healing either Evul or Hapa is fine for me. On July 07 2012 19:33 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 15:19 Release wrote:
Well i read the Jingle case and i can't disagree with it.
But it makes me uncomfortable to feel that he is scum, because then YourHarry would be the other scum (those two had a little OMGUS battle and then suddenly reconciled, great way to clutter the thread), leaving no place for Lazer to be scum, which i still think is true. And mackin... Release, I know from our last game that making reads isn't your strenght as town, if that is what you are. You were wrong about almost every read in that game but still you helped town by being the most active person in the game + good at pressuring people. You were already wrong about Hope. I have(I think) given answers to all your points of suspicion on me. I can understand that you might not be convinced by those answers but in that case post why. I have nothing to hide as I am town, so I should be able to give a good answer every question you ask. Also Release, as of now your two main points of suspicion on me(at least if I'm reading your filter) is that my first post is bad and the sex toy thingie. As for the first post, I don't agree with you and you know that. I can't seem to convince you even tho a fake DT claim would have caused us the game if it hadn't been for some serious luck on our part. Regarding the sex toys, I have never said that it was outright scummy. You are either lying here or didn't read good enough. My concerns here was that discussing sex toys is just way worse than discussing blues/policy and I STRONGLY stand by this still. Tbh can you please give me some examples of the good effects of the sex toy discussion? Because I can't really find any. On July 07 2012 19:35 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 19:15 The_Zen_Man wrote:
Cant say im too suprised, as my choice was between hope and lazer, and they were about equally scummy too me(lazer obvously more). But for now, lets just wait out the night. Yo Ken_Man. What is your stance on me as of now? You thought I was the scummiest person in the game before the lynch, do stand by that? You probebly shouldn't say it right now but include it in the night post : ). On July 08 2012 09:59 Lazermonkey wrote:Take a look at the vote count first: Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 10:18 Radfield wrote:Night 1 Vote CountHopless1der (6): Hapahauli, BassinSpace, YourHarry, Lazermonkey, TMG, Evulrabbitz
Lazermonkey (5): Release, JingleHell, JieXian, The_Zen_Man, Hopeless1der
YourHarry (1): Mackin
Hopeless1der, Mafia Role Cop has been lynched! Night 1 ends in 24 hours at 01:00 GMT (+00:00). Please ensure you send all night actions to BOTH myself and Marvellosity.
I am still trying to replace Khorrus, however if I can't find a replacement before Day 2 I will modkill him. The 2 things we can conclude out of this is that. 1.) It was a close voting 2.)We lynched a mafia. Combine this with the fact that I know 100% that I am VT. Let's just consider PURE LOGIC now, and completely ignore reads. In such a close voting I'd say it's very unlikely that the two remaining scum is among those who voted for me. There is obviously still a chance that Mackin and Khorrus were scum because that they were simply not pressent at the time of the lynch. So based only on logic I think it's safe to say that the remaining 2 scum is among:Release, JingleHell, JieXian, The_Zen_Man, Khorrus(replacement) and Mackin. So, if you belive that I am townie, then you should by all means also belive that this is true. Actually I've chanced my mind on Jingle. Why is that? Well his play before the lynch didn't look like scum play at all to me. Scum does know who the other scum is and also who are the townies. Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 06:50 JingleHell wrote:
How about a little bet, Hapahauli. If Lazer flips Red, we lynch you tomorrow for your (getting ridiculous) defense of him.
If he flips town, lynch me. This to me seems very townie. He seems very convinced that I am townie. I guess you could explain this from a scum point of view by saying he that he wanted to trade. However, I don't think this is the best idea. In the best case scenario They would've gone 1vs3(assuming no medic blocks). This wouldv'e left scum in a 2 vs 7 situation. Not super good odds by any means Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 10:16 JingleHell wrote:On July 07 2012 10:13 Release wrote:
you two seem awfully pretentious and deceitful, but i didn't see that Hopeless hasn't posted shit since the acusation (probably scared of slipping.)
He's set to be lynched. Sounds defeated to me. I'm mostly wondering how you could see me and Lazer being on the same side, when I'm a heavy part of the drive behind the votes on him. Which almost saved hopeless. Now if hopeless flips red, which I doubt, I could see me looking bad, but if he flips green, I'm looking at Hapa, who was overly defending Lazer by pushing hopeless. This one is written just a few minutes before deadline. Why would scum write this? If he would've been scum he would already know that Hope would flip red and this post would make him look really bad. Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 10:18 JingleHell wrote:
Oh, am I going to die at the end of the night for it, Hapa? I would expect you to be in a position to know. Hell, if Hopeless flips green, you're a bigger target than Lazer, because looking like you want to save someone who isn't scum could easily be a scum tactic to push a second mislynch, if things were townie vs townie. His last post before the flip. Once again, explain this post from a scum point of view. It doesn't make any sense at all. I've actually flipped my opinion completely on Jingle. Yes, he have not been contributing at all from a town perspective. In fact he did the opposite. He pushed me, didn't post any reads before he absolutely forced to by me. He is shitting up the thread and doesn't back up his suspiciouns by much more than OMGUS. But it doesn't make sense at all for him to post such post. He could simply ignore the matter and not post anything, or maybe even better: post soft suspicion on Hope. If Jingle is scum, he is possibly the worst scum ever. I find it way more likely that he is semi bad townie rather than super duper bad scum. A player that have been almost forgotten, but in my eyes looks by far the most suspicious after this lynch is The_Zen_Man! I have already been critizising Zen_Man earlier in the game. He ignored everything the first 10 and instead posted a semi long post on Mackin. Mackin had been lurking, and his only post at that point wasn't very good. Zen took a really easy stance here, trying to push the lurker. He also had some strange comments on how scum plays. If you look at mine/his filter these things are easy to look up. However, they are hardly the reason for me saying that Zen is BY FAR my strongest scum read atm. Show nested quote +On July 06 2012 23:46 The_Zen_Man wrote:On July 06 2012 14:50 Hapahauli wrote:
As this is the first major accusation of the game, I want everyone to give an opinion on my argument. My post is not an excuse to top talking and blindly vote. Keep talking, keep giving opinions, and keep pressuring those scum.
Holy geezus that took me hours to write. Bedtime for me.
I have read the Hapahauli and Hopless discussion. What particularly caught my eye was Hapas post on Hopeless previous behaviour in a game where he was town, and what a sharp contrast it was too his play in this game. Hopeless is Mafia. ##Vote Hopeless1derBtw, i am going to be away for about 2 hours. Personally I don't think you should look to much into Meta, especially if you have been misslynched D1 last game. But w/e. I don't really care too much about this. Voting Hope. Note the tone. He IS mafia. Then he posts this case against me. Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 03:12 The_Zen_Man wrote:My analysis of Lazermonkey. On July 05 2012 06:39 Lazermonkey wrote:
YOYO GUYS. I AM Vanilla Townie
On a more serious note, we want this ship rollin' as fast as possible. Discussing policy is not scumhunting but it does at least help us get the discussion going. First off, something we want to avoid as town is Vanillas claiming blue roles. In both my last game and Newbie Mini Mafia XVIII there were Vanillas who claimed blue roles(DTs). Both times town ended in an bad spot (although not as bad as it could've been due to luck). But this should still be avoided at all costs as it can cause massive damage to town. Why? Well let's say a vanilla townie claims DT, and then the real DT claims because the vanilla is lying. As it doesn't make sense for vanillas to claim blue roles, we must assume that one of theese players is scum and the other one is the real DT.Two following scenarios can occur here
1). The townie gets lynched. which means that the other person is probebly the real DT, this must however not be true.
2). The DT gets lynched, which means that the vanilla townie will 100% get lynched the next day.
While 2 is far worse than 1 they are still both very bad for town. There really isn't a situation you want to fakeclaim as a townie. If you don't agree with this please let me know. If noone disagrees I will assume that no townie is ever fake claiming a blue role. Obviously there are situations where you might want to claim as blue.
I will also copy a part of my first post from my last game(where I was DT) since I am lazy.
Regarding lynches: I really really dislike nolynching for three reasons.
1. because the information that we are able to get out of it is very limited. Yes, we avoid a potential misslynch but on the other hand scum will score a more or less a free-kill during night. Essentially, we are back on D1 but this time we are in a 6-2 instead of a 7-2.
2. If we agree to nolynch then what is there to discuss? It's like asking for people to lurk even more.
3. With no vigilante in the game the only way we can win is to lynch scum. Kinda obvious but still.
We require 5+ votes in order to get a lynch done. With that in mind I hope that people are willing to vote for someone who isn't their top 1 scum. Obviously, if you REALLY don't think there is any chance that the person that is about to be lynched can be scum, then sure, don't vote him. But if it seems like your target hardly gets any votes and your second highest scumread is at 4 votes with 30 minutes untill deadline, then I think you should swap your vote onto him.
Lurkers!: There are two types of lurkers. The ones who doesn't post anything and the sneaky ones, who posts ALOT but nothing of value. The first category could either be bad town play or scum play. But the second category is almost exclusivly scum play. If you are a townie, speak your mind, don't make a super duper long post when you could've said it on just a few lines. Keep it simple. With that being said, post!
This was his first post in the game. He start by making a big post and trying to look like someone who is helping town by giving them advice, such as this. I wont go into to much detail into this post, as it has already been talked about a lot. On July 05 2012 09:54 Lazermonkey wrote:I'm getting suspicious of Jingle. On July 05 2012 06:43 JingleHell wrote:
So, since Lazer already opened with the pre-requisite long-winded "Please don't lynch me" post, I'd feel silly making a similar one, so instead, I'm going to open by asking Evulrabbitz why his name references a sex toy. After that question, of course, it suddenly feels awkward, but unless he can answer it well, FoS Evulrabbitz 1st post. Instead of commenting on my post he starts to ridicule it, effectivly killing discussion about it. Instead he is the first one to start shit up the thread with sex-toy w/e. Also, instead of posting his own reads he says I'd feel silly making a similar one which doesn't make any sense at all. I'd much rather have a post about your thought's on scum hunting rather than sex toys. At least when we are playing mafia... The next couple of posts he is effectivly fills half the thread with his talk about Evul being a perv and what not. On July 05 2012 07:56 JingleHell wrote:
Well, Hopeless, since you're at least talking, I don't think you're scum yet. However, if day1 lurkers start causing trouble, I'm all for just throwing the dice and lynching one just to make a clear point.
Also, just as wonky meta, compared to your D1 play in XIX, I'm pretty sure you're town here. You're not afraid of prolific D1 posting, among other things.
Actually, I'm VERY suspicious about YourHarry's lightning fast vote. Could be a throwaway effort to get a bandwagon started, since D1 voting is nonsense in newbie games. In the case of a mislynch, it would be easy to argue away. If you would write this as a first time player I could be somewhat cool with it. But you are not. We want to lynch scum, not lurkers. And we absolutly don't want to roll the dice. And I really don't see how you are very suspicious about the vote. There were ~50 hours untill deadline when he threw the vote. How is this even close to start a bandwagon? Like wtf? On July 05 2012 08:05 JingleHell wrote:
EBWOP: And Harry, don't try to turn my logic around on me, my vote was based on your suspicious vote.
Your quote on Hopeless wasn't what I'd call a real reason to vote for someone who's at least being active, and not particularly suspicious.
Voting for him that way makes you look scummy, considering you've said nothing of real substance yet. But at this point you only had one minor post of substance as well. On July 05 2012 08:13 JingleHell wrote:
I couldn't care less how many games you've played on mafiascum. As it turns out, in newbie games on TL, D1 bandwagons have a tendency to be lethal, particularly if there's no substance to the case to defend against. As such, it's better to target someone who's being either actively or passively useless, not somebody who's at least jumping into the deep end.
In particular, compared to his play in a different game, where he seemed painfully scummy, Hopeless1der seems like he's heading for direct contribution. I don't get this post. I may be missunderstanding this but if there is no substance to the case then why would that even be considered a case? And why on earth would someone ever get lynched by such a ''case'' On July 05 2012 08:13 JingleHell wrote:
I couldn't care less how many games you've played on mafiascum. As it turns out, in newbie games on TL, D1 bandwagons have a tendency to be lethal, particularly if there's no substance to the case to defend against. As such, it's better to target someone who's being either actively or passively useless, not somebody who's at least jumping into the deep end.
In particular, compared to his play in a different game, where he seemed painfully scummy, Hopeless1der seems like he's heading for direct contribution. Once again, there is no threat of a bandwagon at all. Why do you keep saying that? What I find maybe most intresting is how you start the game by shitting up the thread and literally don't post a single usefull thing. When the first vote get thrown tho, You go ''WTF DUDE, VOTING IZ NOT COOL''. No, I agree that the reasoning behind the vote to begin with was verrrry vauge but I don't really see why you get so upset about it ESPICIALLY since it's not even on you. ##Vote JingleHell After a few post, when jingle starts to get suspicous of him, Lazer writes a very long case. It may look like it is big, but it has almost no substance at all. He simply states that there is no threat of bandwagoning. Mafia tend to want to do this, posting long cases but with little of worth, so that it looks good. .He also proceds to vote on Jingle. Lazer proceds to tunnel Jingle for the rest of the game. Here, he effectively turned the attention from him and to Jingle. Lazer also post some aggressive post to anyone who is somewhat suspicous of him. On July 05 2012 21:09 Lazermonkey wrote:Some good analysis there Hapa. Although I can't really contribute anything on Mackin as his filter is just that long. I only find the first post of him to be intresting tho. I don't agree with my post be contradictory which I have already said a dozen of times. Yes, I did use bad wording but that's about it. Also look at the timing. Basically echoing what Hope had already said at that point. The other posts from him is indeed fluff, which is at best bad town play. As for TMG I wouldn't even call him a lurker, at least not in comparison to some other players *hint*. His posting has in fact been okay given that we have only played for <24 hours. But looking at his posts he has for sure being suuuper safe with his posting. He is really afraid of calling anyone scum. Going back and forth never taking a clear stance anywhere. The prime example: On July 05 2012 08:38 TMG26 wrote:
Lazer was not clear on what he said, Hopeless stated that, and yourHarry immidiatly voted Hopeless for that
So, in my opinion if we want to catch the scum we have to confront them, so i Hopeless did the right thing...But so did yourHarry, what i find funny was JingleHell jumping in to declare FoS on yourHarry
In my opinion Hopeless and yourHarry did almost same same thing
My main suspects right now fall to yourHarry and JingleHell, because your acusations seammed more like a counter acusation after a "scum teammate" being acused
But is all still too light, a lot of people still havent spoken So harry did the right thing. Then he is still your prime suspect Then it's all still too light, a lot of people still havent spoken. Note the massive indecisiveness. Why do you care? You are fully capable to take on stance on Harry before everyone have posted. You are testing waters here instead of taking a bold stance. Overall Mackin is kinda null for me although with the slightest scum vibes due to his first post. I consider him a lurker atm and he really needs to post more before I make a clear read. TMG on the other hand i feel is playing in a very anti-town way. I'd say he is my number 2 scumread after Jingle atm. Aside from his tunneling jingle, he agrees of what other peoples scumtells are. In this post, he basically repeats what Hapa said, and makes it look like it is somewhat orignal. Mafia often tend to agree with other players, so that those players like them more and agrees with them in a discussion. On July 06 2012 05:08 Lazermonkey wrote:Zen_Man, I'd really appreciate if you put some thoughts about the other players. I think you are over reading Making. I would hardly call his first post an attempt to bandwagon. On July 06 2012 04:33 The_Zen_Man wrote:When Hopeless later states that he had no intention of anything like a bandwagon on Lazer, Mackin quickly change his opinion again, not mentioning anything about Lazer again, as his bandwagon failed. Mafia tends to want to not have opinions alone, and rather have some other people to back them up, while town has no reason to not go after someone alone. Your just making so many assumptions. Talking about how mafia will play is just impossible. Unless you are mafia. Instead of actually responding to what happends in the thread you choose to FoS a player who basically havn't said anything yet. Then he post this. After i had only posted one post on Mackin, he makes it bigger than it is and says i am "overreading". Mafia often tend to blow stuff up, and make other people look bad (and therefore make themselve look better). He also says that talking about how mafia will play is impossibble, but that would in fact mean that analyzing is pointless. If we would follow his advice, no one should analyze. Very scummy. On July 06 2012 18:53 Lazermonkey wrote:I must say Hope looks very bad atm. However I don't agree with all points of suspicion against him. Like the part when he ''lies'' about there being a case on Release. I think this sould be very explainable from a town point of view. He saw your long post about release and you were also questioning Release's view on me. Overall, there were a quite criticising tone in it. Call it case or not, I don't really see this as a scum tell. What catches my attention is his indecisiveness, especially compared to the other game he played. In that game he focused on the persons he thought was most suspicious. This game... Just look at this post. On July 06 2012 03:59 Hopeless1der wrote:So while catching up, it looks like Release isn't making any friends. YourHarry has also disappeared after resolving his shouting match with Jingle. He's said he'll re-read for scum vibes and hasn't been heard from since. On July 06 2012 02:37 JieXian wrote:
Let's focus on lurkers like Mackin ATM. I know I might qualify as one but I have nothing to add to the lazer/hapa vs hopeless/release/jingle babbling Mackin on the other hand disappeared about the same time as Rabbitz: just before what I consider the 'real discussion' started. A very suspicious time to start lurking because they could very easily have been watching and just let the town shred itself so I'll be watching them both going forward for avoiding discussions. Not that they're both necessarily scum, but its definitely looks scummy to me. Rabbitz came back and had a read on Release that looks pretty good, but there are a couple other fingers pointed at Release concern me: + Show Spoiler +On July 06 2012 02:48 Hapahauli wrote:Regarding the FOS's on Release (by TMG26 and Evulrabbitz) Release's aggressive/FingerPointing play isn't grounds for suspicion; he is incredibly aggressive in his other games as townie. www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345447&user=117960 (Newbie Mini Mafia XVIII - Vigilante) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342960&user=117960 (Newbie Mini Mafia XVI - Townie) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337671&user=117960 (Newbie Mini Mafia XIV - Townie) In these games, he always picks an early target or two (for marginal, sometimes joke reasons) and relentlessly pressures them. Sometimes, this pressure goes on for far too long, but its done with good intentions. I don't wish to go and dissect all his past games, but I suggest you take a look through his past to get a feel for his town play. However, I would like to point out that Release's hard stance on LazerMonkey's first post is unusual given a previous mafia game they've played together. In Newbie Mini Mafia XVI, LazerMonkey makes a similar introductory post (clicky!) to the one he made in this thread. Release raises no objections with it in their past game, but he makes it a point to raise an objection on it in this game. Needless to say, LazerMonkey turned up town-alligned in the previous game. Hapahauli is doing a big backslide from his previous case on Release, after seeing + Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 14:59 Release wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 13:46 Hapahauli wrote:On July 05 2012 13:23 Khorrus wrote:
Sorry I'm a bit late. I notice I seem to have already missed sex toys and what looks to be the beginning of some mini bandwagons.
While I can't quite determine what's going on with the YourHarry, Hopeless Situaation, Lazermonkey's post seems off many words to flip flop and not say much of value. You've just posted a list of four names while saying nothing of value yourself. Rather scummy behavior. That's just grasping at straws, which is one of the reasons Lazer is my top priority lynch. And as far as i can tell, he hasn't even had a thorough reading of the thread yet. way too over-eager to point out every little flaw. and just jumps all over it, building a huge case: + Show Spoiler +On July 05 2012 15:40 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 14:59 Release wrote:On July 05 2012 13:46 Hapahauli wrote:On July 05 2012 13:23 Khorrus wrote:
Sorry I'm a bit late. I notice I seem to have already missed sex toys and what looks to be the beginning of some mini bandwagons.
While I can't quite determine what's going on with the YourHarry, Hopeless Situaation, Lazermonkey's post seems off many words to flip flop and not say much of value. You've just posted a list of four names while saying nothing of value yourself. Rather scummy behavior. That's just grasping at straws, which is one of the reasons Lazer is my top priority lynch. And as far as i can tell, he hasn't even had a thorough reading of the thread yet. way too over-eager to point out every little flaw. Exactly what has Lazer done to be a "top-priority lynch?" According to your filter, you have two posts detailing cases against Lazer. The first is an analysis of his first post: Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 08:58 Release wrote:I think YourHarry is Grush's new alias. On July 05 2012 06:39 Lazermonkey wrote:
YOYO GUYS. I AM Vanilla Townie
On a more serious note, we want this ship rollin' as fast as possible. Discussing policy is not scumhunting but it does at least help us get the discussion going. First off, something we want to avoid as town is Vanillas claiming blue roles. In both my last game and Newbie Mini Mafia XVIII there were Vanillas who claimed blue roles(DTs). Both times town ended in an bad spot (although not as bad as it could've been due to luck). But this should still be avoided at all costs as it can cause massive damage to town. Why? Well let's say a vanilla townie claims DT, and then the real DT claims because the vanilla is lying. As it doesn't make sense for vanillas to claim blue roles, we must assume that one of theese players is scum and the other one is the real DT.Two following scenarios can occur here
1). The townie gets lynched. which means that the other person is probebly the real DT, this must however not be true.
2). The DT gets lynched, which means that the vanilla townie will 100% get lynched the next day.
While 2 is far worse than 1 they are still both very bad for town. There really isn't a situation you want to fakeclaim as a townie. If you don't agree with this please let me know. If noone disagrees I will assume that no townie is ever fake claiming a blue role. Obviously there are situations where you might want to claim as blue.
I will also copy a part of my first post from my last game(where I was DT) since I am lazy.
Regarding lynches: I really really dislike nolynching for three reasons.
1. because the information that we are able to get out of it is very limited. Yes, we avoid a potential misslynch but on the other hand scum will score a more or less a free-kill during night. Essentially, we are back on D1 but this time we are in a 6-2 instead of a 7-2.
2. If we agree to nolynch then what is there to discuss? It's like asking for people to lurk even more.
3. With no vigilante in the game the only way we can win is to lynch scum. Kinda obvious but still.
We require 5+ votes in order to get a lynch done. With that in mind I hope that people are willing to vote for someone who isn't their top 1 scum. Obviously, if you REALLY don't think there is any chance that the person that is about to be lynched can be scum, then sure, don't vote him. But if it seems like your target hardly gets any votes and your second highest scumread is at 4 votes with 30 minutes untill deadline, then I think you should swap your vote onto him.
Lurkers!: There are two types of lurkers. The ones who doesn't post anything and the sneaky ones, who posts ALOT but nothing of value. The first category could either be bad town play or scum play. But the second category is almost exclusivly scum play. If you are a townie, speak your mind, don't make a super duper long post when you could've said it on just a few lines. Keep it simple. With that being said, post!
Ignoring the copy-pasted policy stuff for now, Why on earth did you even post that scenario stuff about a VT fake-claiming a DT or blue? There was absolutely no indication that anyone had even planned on that (especially considering you had the first post). If anything, you have just shown people something they can do (to the detriment of the town). And why go through the casework? It's just fluff and you know it. This is very much a post looking like a contribution, while being a non-contribution, or even an anti-contribution. Im pretty sure, again, that no one was even remotely close to voting in a way to force a nolynch. I love the bolded line; you could have kept this post simple and concise. But you decided to make it "super-duper long." ##vote: LazermonkeyYourharry, you should do more than OMGUS. You are definitely rivaling, for scumminess, against lazer. Fos: yourharry
Fos: lazermonkey It's worth saying that Lazer's first post was made 12 minutes after the game started. I'm not sure when the mafia separate forum-thingy goes online (at the start of the game or when the role PM's are sent out?,) but his message seems innocent and hardly "an attempt to brainwash unsuspecting townies" - as you call it in a later post. Him warning about townie fake-claiming is a legitimate concern, as it led to the downfall of the town in one of his previous games. While this may seem common-knowledge to the both of us, it is clearly not obvious to some players, and thus is worth mentioning. While I agree his post is "fluffy," it does not seem like an attempt to "brainwash" townsfolk, and his actions can be seen as having a pro-town mentality. This is hardly FOS material. Your second case against Lazer is a response to his case about JingleHell. Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 11:08 Release wrote:On July 05 2012 09:54 Lazermonkey wrote:I'm getting suspicious of Jingle. On July 05 2012 06:43 JingleHell wrote:
So, since Lazer already opened with the pre-requisite long-winded "Please don't lynch me" post, I'd feel silly making a similar one, so instead, I'm going to open by asking Evulrabbitz why his name references a sex toy. After that question, of course, it suddenly feels awkward, but unless he can answer it well, FoS Evulrabbitz 1st post. Instead of commenting on my post he starts to ridicule it, effectivly killing discussion about it. Instead he is the first one to start shit up the thread with sex-toy w/e. Also, instead of posting his own reads he says I'd feel silly making a similar one which doesn't make any sense at all. I'd much rather have a post about your thought's on scum hunting rather than sex toys. At least when we are playing mafia... The next couple of posts he is effectivly fills half the thread with his talk about Evul being a perv and what not. On July 05 2012 07:56 JingleHell wrote:
Well, Hopeless, since you're at least talking, I don't think you're scum yet. However, if day1 lurkers start causing trouble, I'm all for just throwing the dice and lynching one just to make a clear point.
Also, just as wonky meta, compared to your D1 play in XIX, I'm pretty sure you're town here. You're not afraid of prolific D1 posting, among other things.
Actually, I'm VERY suspicious about YourHarry's lightning fast vote. Could be a throwaway effort to get a bandwagon started, since D1 voting is nonsense in newbie games. In the case of a mislynch, it would be easy to argue away. If you would write this as a first time player I could be somewhat cool with it. But you are not. We want to lynch scum, not lurkers. And we absolutly don't want to roll the dice. And I really don't see how you are very suspicious about the vote. There were ~50 hours untill deadline when he threw the vote. How is this even close to start a bandwagon? Like wtf? On July 05 2012 08:05 JingleHell wrote:
EBWOP: And Harry, don't try to turn my logic around on me, my vote was based on your suspicious vote.
Your quote on Hopeless wasn't what I'd call a real reason to vote for someone who's at least being active, and not particularly suspicious.
Voting for him that way makes you look scummy, considering you've said nothing of real substance yet. But at this point you only had one minor post of substance as well. On July 05 2012 08:13 JingleHell wrote:
I couldn't care less how many games you've played on mafiascum. As it turns out, in newbie games on TL, D1 bandwagons have a tendency to be lethal, particularly if there's no substance to the case to defend against. As such, it's better to target someone who's being either actively or passively useless, not somebody who's at least jumping into the deep end.
In particular, compared to his play in a different game, where he seemed painfully scummy, Hopeless1der seems like he's heading for direct contribution. I don't get this post. I may be missunderstanding this but if there is no substance to the case then why would that even be considered a case? And why on earth would someone ever get lynched by such a ''case'' On July 05 2012 08:13 JingleHell wrote:
I couldn't care less how many games you've played on mafiascum. As it turns out, in newbie games on TL, D1 bandwagons have a tendency to be lethal, particularly if there's no substance to the case to defend against. As such, it's better to target someone who's being either actively or passively useless, not somebody who's at least jumping into the deep end.
In particular, compared to his play in a different game, where he seemed painfully scummy, Hopeless1der seems like he's heading for direct contribution. Once again, there is no threat of a bandwagon at all. Why do you keep saying that? What I find maybe most intresting is how you start the game by shitting up the thread and literally don't post a single usefull thing. When the first vote get thrown tho, You go ''WTF DUDE, VOTING IZ NOT COOL''. No, I agree that the reasoning behind the vote to begin with was verrrry vauge but I don't really see why you get so upset about it ESPICIALLY since it's not even on you. ##Vote JingleHell are you outing Jingle as your scumbuddy? or maybe trying to drag him down with you? YOU ARE SO CONFUSING. OMGUS. Why are you promoting your first post as a discussion starter? It isn't. It is an attempt to brainwash unsuspecting townies and get us talking about useless things. I commend him for shutting your down your post with this authority. If you are actually using the discussion of sex toys as a reason to call him scum, you really are just grasping at straws for lack of any real substance. In terms of day1, i don't think setting a tone on lynching lurkers is necessarily a bad thing. should we decide on lynching a lurker, the lurkers will feel a need to speak up in order to avoid getting the lynch. In other words, saying "let's lynch lurkers" promotes discussion. And "to make a point" states exactly that. "speak up or die." Jingle should probably reply to the next part, but as far as i can see, it goes - OMGUS OMGUS OMGUS ##vote -##vote x 10 - no discussion, the guy who got OMGUS'd has nothing to attack/defend. Checkmate. Turns out, he was VT o.O _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ That being said, Jingle has only made very light commitments and commented on very obvious/easy things. Lazer, you still look worse. What ever his stance may be, he clearly took the time to read through JingleHell's post. He's also taking a firm stance against a player, and making a clear attempt at analysis (even if it is only day 1). You spend half your post talking about his first post, then address one of his points... then the rest I don't even understand. You have very strong feelings about Lazer, care to solidify your case for him to be a "top priority lynch?" He pushed him for a bit, and then finally let up once everyone else had suspicions on Release. His change of stance is well timed to distance himself from his provoking, but he still leaves himself an open avenue to target Release later on based on his meta from a game where Lazer played the same but got a different response from Release than this game.. The other thing that I found scummy about him was his reason for suspecting Jingle in this case: On July 05 2012 11:37 Hapahauli wrote:
--SNIP--
In conclusion, FOS on JingleHell. His actions regarding D1 voting are contradictory, and he's taken a very suspicious stance on anti-bandwagnoning so early into day 1.
I don't get how being anti-bandwagon can be seen as suspicious. Bandwagoning is terrible and I completely agree with Jingle's stance on it, seeing as I was the victim of a D1 mislynch in XVIII. Scum don't have to push for a majority vote this game, they can let us rile ourselves up and can vote with little risk of getting themselves caught in the mislynch votecount. FoS: Hapahauli So let's see. That is a whole total of 5(!) people who you cast some dirt on in just one post. YourHarry, Mackin, Evul, Release and Hapa. Except for Hapa, all you are doing here is very softly pressuring them. And I'm not even sure you can call it that. You havn't said anything about these people since you posted this case, why? You say they look suspicious but yet you don't follow up with more pressure. It's like you prepare to jump on the bandwagon here. I kinda want to hear your response tho before I decide to vote you or not. Hapa has somewhat overwhelmed you with suspicion atm and you havn't even been close to be able to defend youself. Here, Lazer states his support for yet another person who seems scummy. As i said before, agreeing with everyone is a way for mafia to win favor among town. Lazer then goes on to a back and forth post with Jingle, with not posting much of worth. But something that was really scummy for me in that post was this. On July 07 2012 01:11 Lazermonkey wrote:On July 07 2012 01:06 JingleHell wrote:On July 07 2012 00:54 Lazermonkey wrote:
Jingle what info will we get from you, assuming you flip town? You havn't posted any scum reads(except for me I guess). You'll get the info of who led a theoretical case against me based off of smoke and mirrors. I would have thought that was obvious, although it might be a bit too substantial for most of the people who took over the thread by screaming at anyone who posted. You'll get the info of who votes where. And you'll get the info that I'm still unimpressed by anyone who bases a case off of my (actually succesful) means of getting conversation started. Oh wait, that's been available for a while now. But like I said, I'm not in the mood to slam repeatedly against circular logic, so I'm waiting to see how the D1 lynch goes, at which point there will be more info to make a read off of. I am doing a case against you because I think you are scummy. I will push people I think are scummy. If they flip green because they play bad, i can't be blamed for that. We will get vote count info no matter who we vote. It's not like your special in any way. The third one is not even info. And I don't agree with that you were the person to get discussion going. Hope and yourHarry were imo the ones who did that. This post had a really scummy sentence, "I will push people I think are scummy. If they flip green because they play bad, i can't be blamed for that". This is an excuse mafia use often when they are pushing a mislynch. Often, it is not because bad play but because mafia manipulated the game. Lazer then says that he leaves and continues posting from his phone. As of now, i am equally suspicous of Lazer as i am Hopeless, still unsure of who to vote for. Other players opinions are welcome. But for now ##FoS Lazermonkey I will not comment the case as a whole, Hapa has already done that. I can comment on it as well tomorrow if you would really like that Zen. However, note the last part. He finds us both equally scummy. This must mean that I am scum as well judging by your last post. He says that because we are equally scummy he strugles to chose who to vote. This is the money part. He knows Hope is in shitloads of trouble and can if possible always buss him. At the same time, if the vote would be going my way, he can vote me. Show nested quote +On July 07 2012 05:52 The_Zen_Man wrote:
I have already stated my reasons for doing this in my analysis, i was just unsure if i should do this. But i have made up my mind
##Vote Lazermonkey The timing is the key part of this. At the point where he threw down the vote it was 4-2 in favour of me getting lynched. Essentially 5-3 as me and Hapa were going to vote each other no matter what. Things were looking reeeal good for Hope at this point. Also, why would he change his vote if he is sure that hope is mafia? While Zen_Man havn't really contributed to town in alot of ways, his acting during the lynch is what makes him look SUPER SUSPICIOUS rather than suspicious.
Highlights - Notes in multiple posts that he doesn't like sharing thoughts at night, prefers people wait until the deadline. That said, discusses medic targets, responds to a case against him, solicits thoughts from Zen_Man, who he posts a right-before-day case on. No list of reads though, just a big case on Zen_Man.
N2 Posts - + Show Spoiler +On July 10 2012 22:54 Lazermonkey wrote:
Sorry guys, but I'm kinda bussy/lazy atm. However, as everyone who isn't blue have basically been given a freepass to D4. I will post alot of shit from tomorrow night and foreward tho.
As for Evul and Jiexian. In case you guys didn't get it, pick a name from here:
Me
Hapa
Mackin
Bass
Harry
And investigate him. Do not tell who you've investigate untill the day tho.
Highlights - Discuss medic targets. Only one post. No list of reads.
N3 Posts - Looks like they'd found the final mafia, not much of anything to post.
Overall Conclusion: Did emphasize N1 that he doesn't like night posting. Did some medic directing. Made a case on Zen_Man after soliciting comments from him, but posted 1 minute before deadline. No list posts of reads. Supports his distate for night chatter more than Mad Men, but still lacks the list o' reads each night.
Newbie Mini XVI - (as DT)
N1 Posts - + Show Spoiler +On June 11 2012 08:06 Lazermonkey wrote:
Owgod. Don't know what to say. Will be going to bed now.
NO HIGHLIGHTS
N2 Posts - + Show Spoiler +On June 15 2012 07:59 Lazermonkey wrote:
Important shit here. Please read
Everyone, I am the detective!
So my first check was on Vivax. Release seemed to think that a check on anyone other than grush or ha236 was a bad check. I don't agree with this at all. First off, this is a noob game and their play could be explained by them being inexperienced. Or rather grush, because I never really had a scum read on Ha236 anyway. Also, in case that were to show town I would either need to claim in order to save one of the weaker townies which means no more checks for me or I had to defend them while they were acting suspicious without me claiming. I would either risk a lynch of them anyway or even a lynch on myself for defending a suspicious person and swaping my read super hard(said I was willing to lynch grush D1, Wants to stop the lynch on him D2...) My reason Vivax for this was because of his play. He didn't apear clearly scummy with his ''nice'' posts. But still, his unwillingness to take a stance anywhere. This wasn't his first game so he should know the basics of town play. I didn't find anything that pointed in that direction.Vivax showed as scum!
Regarding the second scum, I am 99,9% sure this is Kthez. He have faked a DT claim at this point. I'm not even sure you need any more evidence than this. He even claimed me to be town. What townie would do such a thing? My guess is that Kthez was feeling the hard pressure against him and when he saw grush claim DT, he took the opportunity as he felt most people would rather belive him than grush in a 1vs1. This would lead into a 2-1 where Vivax could've gotten lots of town cred by bussing him. If Kthez is a townie, he is the worst one ever. Btw, I decided to check Kthez this night.
I don't have a way to 100% confirm myself as detective so you will not know if my claim here is true or not. But you can be sure that either me or Vivax is scum here. I will not really push the case vs Vivax here either. In case I die tonight, you will all know I spoke the truth. If I survive, I will be able to push the case against him for 48 hours. I recomend you guys to take a very close look at their filters as well as mine and try to think you is the most likely scum at this point. Essentially if I survive the night, D3 will come down to a lynch on me vs a lynch on Vivax/Kthez. If I die, it's insta GG, town wins!
When writing this, I feel I probebly could've posted this way earlier. My head was just sooo full of fuck with two guys claiming DT when it was obvious not only that both of them were lying but also that one of them HAD to be town.
Highlights - Claims DT with red check 1 minute before deadline. Gets NKed.
Overall Conclusion: No real night posts at all this game except claim, died early. Last minute post fits the pattern, but again, it's not a list of reads. Here, that's for a specific reason, he was posting his redcheck.
Surprisingly Normal Mini XI -
N1 Posts - + Show Spoiler +On April 29 2012 15:22 Lazermonkey wrote:
Wow, such a nice day-1 kill! I wasn't at home last night but I followed the drama from my phone : P
I think this would somewhat clear AcecAnoka from being mafia more or less, no? Mafia could've easily tried to spread the votes among him and Veriat to avoid lynching Verait.
Highlights - One post. Offhand comment that someone maybe not mafia because of vote. No reads on gameplay, no list.
N2 Posts - + Show Spoiler +On May 03 2012 04:05 Lazermonkey wrote:
I've been bussy today, so my contribution have lacked quite alot. I hope it doesn't really matter tho since it's night anyway! Reading through the thread atm. On May 03 2012 06:34 Lazermonkey wrote:Okay so here we go! I've been thinking about the D1 lynch alot. What is puzzling me is the fact that we actually got a scum on the very first day,aka very rare in mafia. Looking at the people voting we can see that: Show nested quote +Veriat: (7): yomi, The_Zen_Man, WhySoMuch, Pure-SC2, Splinter[eP], Mordanis, O.Golden_ne
The_Zen_Man (1): Veriat
Yomi (1): Jailbreaker
AcesAnoka (1):Lazermonkey
WhySoMuch (1): nreekay324
Haven't voted (1):AcesAnoka So Veriat was scum and Jailbreaker was townie. Now if we assume that noone that voted On Veriat was scum then two of me, nreekay324 and AcesAnoka/Marvellosity must be scum. Now as for myself, I was seriously thought that Aces was looking way scummier than Veriat at the point of the lynch. I went to bed at about 22:00 and at that point where I left there were alot of indecisiveness on who to lynch. Thus I wasn't able to change my vote, although I'm not trying to archive town cred as I still think Aces looked more scummy in D1. While I can't be 100% sure that Marv/Aces is town, it makes alot of sense. nreekay324 could very well be scum tho. I still think that the odds of BOTH this players being scum is relativly low. + Show Spoiler +However, it is possible now that I am actually checking filters. During the 3 pages Marv posted this far he BARLY mentions nreekay324. nreekay324 himself is at first very suspicious against Aces, although when Marv replaces him he suddenly change his mind on him to town. This is somewhat strange to me... This means that someone in the inner circel, the ones who voted for Veriat in the first place must be scum. I still have a hard time seeing, Pure or Mordanis being scum as they were the ones who pushed for the vote at Veriat. Note that I'm in fact not including The_Zen_Man. I'm not sure what to think anymore about him. Yes it is true that he posted the first case on Veriat but he didn't actually push the case at all after that. It was Pure and Mordanis who did. during D2 he have posted not much at all. He states that he still think that WhySomuch is scum. I feel he is tunneling a little bit to hard atm and abusing the fact that he is "forever town" after D1. This is alot of WIFOM but for me he has at least lost his never-vote status. I'd say it's most likely he is town atm but not 100%. The other people in the circel: Golden: Still leaining town here. WhySoMuch: I'm not sure about this guy at all. As I'm lazy I will not post any evidence and such of this tho : ). I'm thinking that one out of Golden, The_Zen_Man and WhySoMuch is probebly scum. The most likely one is WhySoMuch but I don't want to be too fast on dissmissing the others!
Highlights - Just noting for convenience, scattered amongst his play this game (as mafia), lots of apologies for missed time. Not much night posting. No list, although his last post of N2 works through 4 or 5 players based on voting and discusses alignment.
N3 Posts - + Show Spoiler +On May 06 2012 00:45 Lazermonkey wrote:
I'm not sure I will be able to post anything before daypost :S. But I will try to get my thoughts out as soon I can. On May 06 2012 06:30 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 02:09 The_Zen_Man wrote:
Golden/SexDoll is starting to look more and more suspicous to me as more people post cases against him and not only WhySoMuch. Before i thought of him as a good townie, who made some cases and encouraged others to do the same. But his leave from the game is very strange, especially since he left not long after marvellosity said he was compiling a post about him. Also, much of what sexdoll says confuses me. Either he is using advanced logic all the time or he is using fail logic all the time. He has gone up to a big spot in my scum reads. I will wait and observe SexDoll some more before i can form a proper opinion, but for now i can say that i am suspicous of him.
So much in this post is strange... You first think of him as a good townie but you change your mind. Your arguments for this seems to be kind of weak. You think the way he left the game was strange, but that's just to discuss WIFOM at insane levels. And then some random things about advanced logic. Yes, Golden/SexDoll were scummy at the time but not for the reasons you said. Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 17:50 The_Zen_Man wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 04 2012 09:57 SexDoll wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 04:53 Lazermonkey wrote:Reading through the thread more closely this time. @AcesAnoka - His posts are just scummier and scummier. Something to add on the case against him are the last posts before he goes to bed. He first is very suspicious about yomi, but when both Golden and Splinter posts some good cases against him he quickly responds with: On April 28 2012 02:24 AcesAnoka wrote:
##unvote
I haven't thought of it the way you just posted, Yomi.
I need nreekay to explain himself though. I understand that he needs to go to bed but basically what he does is fleeing from all the allegations by saying '' this case was bad, hope u forget about it till tomorrow''. @The_Zen_Man Must say that he is acting way to defensive atm. At least if he is in fact a towine. Up untill just an hour ago all he had posted was defensive posts in response to WhySoMuch. He then makes a summary posts which just made me even more puzzled. His conclusions just seem to be way off. The one I was most suprised about was: On April 28 2012 03:05 The_Zen_Man wrote:
AcesAnoka: You seem suspicous to me. You're first comment was rather strange, but i know you shoulnd't judge someone too much based on what they first wrote. I think it was a good thing you put that pressure vote on yomi, after all it did give a response from him. It's almost like you didn't read anything but the very first pages. Alot of people, me including, have been thinking that AcecAnoka's behavior was more then just strange. This is NOT only due to his first post but mostly due to the yomi-debate. And I don't understand what you mean with I think it was a good thing you put that pressure vote on yomi, after all it did give a response from him.. The only thing yomi said was what everyone was thinking: that he was just trying to start a discussion. Now this is alot WIFOM. But it IS possible that AcesAnoka were trying to go for a cheap bandwagon on yomi and when he realized that it all failed utterly he was quick to abandon the ship. His scumbro The_Zen_Man tries to to cover his teammate by giving him a relativelynice review in his summary post. Imo The_Zen_Man seems like a confused townie tho and not lynch worthy at all atm. AcecAnoka on the other hand seems quite a bit suspicious to me still. reread a little more of lazermonkey because of that other post I quoted earlier and cus I saw whysomuch voting him and think this post is interesting. Lazer post is a defence of zen_man with an attack on aces (who I think is a likely towno). It's interesting because both cases are very thin and he has fairly strong opinions in opposite directions on each of them. If Lazer is a scummo, he's very unlikely to take this position if aces and zenman are both towndawgs. It's too viable for ppl to go either way on both of these ppl for him to take such a hard stance on them if they were both townspeople. Scum will either back off on these ppl to let the townsos make a bad decision, or they will chose the line of reasoning that makes either of them more likely to be scum. SOOO given my initial reads on lazer and aces, if lazer flips scum, we can probably turbolynch thezenman the next day Please make a better explanation to why i should be "turbolynched" if lazer flips scum? Also, try to read all of the thread before forming a opinion. It might be because you just don't understand what he meant but frankly, what was it that you didn't understand with this? And you once again take a super defensive stance right of the bat. Finally we have the crazy post: Show nested quote ++ Show Spoiler +On May 05 2012 05:49 The_Zen_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 05:42 Lazermonkey wrote:On May 05 2012 05:35 The_Zen_Man wrote:
Lazermonkey: It seems like this post is rushed as well. First tell me this, what is more scumlike, posting a case that convinces several people to vote for a scum, or voting for the other guy and lie about the circumstances of the voting?
Regarding my vote on Jailbreaker, that was done so that we would reach a majority.
Also, i was asked of an opinion of Golden/SexDoll, and when i was investigating him to form a opinion i found him suspicous.
Frankly, i feel like it is a waste of time to be answering to all of these accusations from you Lazermonkey, as they are often weak and lacking in many things. If you really want to prove that you are town, try to contribute with some analysis and cases. Obviously lying is. But that is not the point. And majority would've been reached with or without you vote. It didn't matter. Sure if we were one vote short and it was 15 minutes to lynch-time. But this was not the case. I don't think it's a waste of time. You've been 100% confirmed town since D1 and have had an insanly easy time to blend in. Yet if you ignore your case on Veriat I'd say you would be a very strong scumread for me. I am still conflicted on wether to vote on you or SexyDoll, as you are equally scummy. Could some other people post their views on Lazer and SexyDoll? ... Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:31 The_Zen_Man wrote:
Lazermonkey: I don't know where you got thw whole "If he flips town ->The_Zen_Man is probebly scum", but if SexDoll flips town i would say you are a more probable scum. In what way? Your jumping on the bandwagon and change your opinion on who is most likely scum 3 times in 24 hours. You got super defensive when I just started to pressure you. If he would've flipped scum I still would've thought you were town as I have a hard time to belive that you bussed both of your teammates. All this in just a couple of hours. The_Zen_Man could very well be playing a very tricky game here. He is by far my strongest scumread atm.
Highlights - Still no lists. More apologies for missed time/saying he was going to miss time.
Overall Conclusion: Lazermonkey, as mafia, doesn't post much at night. He apologizes for his lack of contribution, notes a lack of time or something else. All reads were based off votes, and although no lists made of reads on everyone, he has one post discussing 4-5 alignments, the closest thing he's had to a list in all these games.
Grand takeaway
(1) I'm invested in hunting scum
(2) Lazermonkey is scum
Although he says his night posting this game is his norm, it's not (there's one more game from earlier, but I'd seen enough after 4). He NEVER makes a list of night reads in any other game. The closest he comes to doing so was in a scum game. While he often makes a last minute post, in one game it was a DT claim with a red check, in another game it was a case. He openly discusses vigi and medic targets as town, EXACTLY the sort of targetting information he claims not to want to give away.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HcgBJ.jpg)
