EPTBut if I'm trying to get him to actually speak openly, it felt like something fun to throw in. Gives a reason for him to need to speak up if he wants to look town.
Paranoia Mafia - Page 7
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
But if I'm trying to get him to actually speak openly, it felt like something fun to throw in. Gives a reason for him to need to speak up if he wants to look town. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
 Yes, I could be mean old nasty scum, just trying to get you to lynch Sandroba in order to buy time for me to NK townies. MWAHAHAHAHA. Of course, you could be mean old nasty scum, just trying to get people to lynch me in order to buy time for you to NK townies. MWAHAHAHAHA. I don't know about anyone else, and I only called it peculiar at the time, but this post felt INCREDIBLY constructed and worked-on, compared to a lot of the thread. It yelled I'M A SCUM POST. I'M A SCUM POST. to me when I first read it. + Show Spoiler + On December 06 2012 06:16 Xatalos wrote: I'm starting to believe more and more that all of the claims so far have been real. There are some strong points to be made for all of them: 1) If DYH was SK, it would be an almost impossible stroke of luck that he claimed Vigi at such a time when it couldn't have realistically saved him anymore - although it managed to somehow save him anyway. And even if he still somehow was SK, it's a fact that there are still Mafia alive, so it's beyond stupid IMO to lynch a nearly confirmed Vigi while letting Mafia freely continue killing. 2) Keirathi was WBG's Mason partner, and unless this is some really cruel joke of a setup by the host, Keirathi must be town. Granted, it's "paranoia" Mafia, but lynching a confirmed Mason would be too stupid (realistically just doing Mafia's work for them). 3) BH/MrZentor would have been extremely stupid to fakeclaim just to ensure one mislynch at the cost of certainly losing the game eventually. Think about it: we now know that they are both town or both Mafia. If one of them would flip Mafia (lynch/SK kill/whatever), it would be GG right there and then. It's an extremely disadvantegeous position to put yourself into without any real gain. It's also most likely that one of them will be nightkilled before LYLO, which would confirm the other. It would make absolutely zero sense to lynch either of them. That means we have pretty much half the players as confirmed town, which is a great spot. I'm worried about what roles Mafia might have, though (or if they might have 4 players) considering the strong roles town has. But now it's basically just a process of elimination to figure out the remaining Mafia. Realistically DYH, Keirathi, BH and MrZentor are out of the picture. I'm also leaning town on debears, sandroba, austinmcc and Lazermonkey. That just leaves... ShiaoPi. What?? There's just no way there would be only 2 Mafia in a setup this stacked with blue roles. I feel like our only sensible option is to lynch ShiaoPi tomorrow, and in hindsight I feel it might have been better to lynch him today instead of WBG. Although WBG's flip at least (practically) confirmed Keirathi and the reality of this setup having tons of blues, so it's not too bad. I started suspecting this earlier and it's still on the back of my mind, although it ONLY makes sense if ShiaoPi is indeed Mafia. I mean austinmcc's weird behavior towards ShiaoPi. Let me show you some posts of his: It somehow looks like austinmcc is reluctant to talk about ShiaoPi. He rarely even mentions ShiaoPi, let alone asks him anything or interacts with him. When he does mention ShiaoPi, it's like this post (soft defending him without really committing to anything). In my mind it's way more scummy to make vague defenses for Mafia players than to directly defend them or to at least openly analyze them (granted, we don't know ShiaoPi's flip at this point). Once again some more vague comments on ShiaoPi after the WBG lynch, although this time apparently willing to lynch him. I can't help but feel like austinmcc has realized that his scumbuddy is most likely being lynched tomorrow, and that this post is the start for preparations to convincingly bus him and get some towncred. There's also a stark difference between austinmcc's lenient attitude towards ShiaoPi's scummy points and his way of finding the smallest things about WBG as scummy. This is just an intro, and not really a convincing case without knowing ShiaoPi's alignment at all, but considering my scumread on ShiaoPi and the lack of other suspects, I'll have to drop my townread on austinmcc and read through his filter looking for possible Mafia motivations later. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Curious. All I know for sure right now, is that Sandroba is scum. If you think I'm so scummy, why is Sandroba townie? I notice in that post you say "you're leaning town" on Sandroba, but you don't give any further reasoning. See posts like these: D1 - Xatalos thinks Dandel Ion is scummy On December 02 2012 01:14 Xatalos wrote: What I'm most concerned about are these players: VisceraEyes, DoYouHas, Dandel Ion. They all have been pretty passive background characters who are not lurking/trolling/playing bad, but not really doing anything either. I think there's a high chance for 1-2 of them being Mafia. [Stuff on VE] Dandel Ion hasn't put any real effort into his posts yet. He's just made some fluff one-liners and semi-useful "advice" like these: Dandel Ion doesn't just seem to care about Mafia hunting, even though he has posted a decent amount and with semi-useful content as well. I'd need to see some real improvement in his posting to make my suspicions fade. Sharing some reads or anything beneficial to finding Mafia would be a good start. On December 02 2012 02:55 Xatalos wrote: VisceraEyes at the moment. DoYouHas and Dandel Ion haven't made any actual effort to contribute, but they haven't done anything outright scummy either. I'm most suspicious of VE's opportunistic vote for debears and his lack of interest to do pretty much anything useful after that. On December 02 2012 05:01 Xatalos wrote: If any of VE/DYH/Dandel can't be lynched tonight, at least it's a perfect opportunity to make some pressure. I'll change my target from VE if needed before the deadline. 3 posts, VE and Dandel Ion so scummy. Let's lynch em. Let's lynch em. N1/D2 - Dandel Ion now Sandroba, Sandroba suddenly townie for no real reason On December 03 2012 19:54 Xatalos wrote: Of my other original suspects VE was obviously Mafia and DYH is now confirmed town, and Dandel Ion was replaced by sandroba (who feels townish so far) so I'm not willing to lynch other players at this moment. On December 03 2012 22:16 Xatalos wrote: Hmm. Alright, I can agree with lynching ShiaoPi today. It also helps that I have a town read on both you and WBG. And ShiaoPi hasn't been lurking quite as heavily as Zealos, but he hasn't done anything either. ##Unvote ##Vote ShiaoPi Although I'm wondering where Zealos has disappeared. And Lazermonkey. What we need now is more posts by several players who haven't done anything for a while (or even all game). On December 04 2012 04:36 Xatalos wrote: I'm willing to give Dandel/Sandroba a pass though, since Dandel didn't interact with pretty much anyone and Sandroba has been very helpful with his posts. On December 06 2012 06:16 Xatalos wrote: Realistically DYH, Keirathi, BH and MrZentor are out of the picture. I'm also leaning town on debears, sandroba, austinmcc and Lazermonkey. Would you care to explain why Sandroba is townie? Would you care to explain why DI was one of your top scum suspects D1, but D2 it's "Dandel didn't interact with pretty much anyone and Sandroba has been helpful with his posts" so they get a pass? It's curious to me that one of your top 3 scumreads became a guy you think is townie but you never actually said why. | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 06 2012 08:38 Xatalos wrote: Wut? Is that post supposed to be a joke or something? If so, I'd appreciate if you actually tried to convince the thread you're telling the truth. Like... Any breadcrumbs? Role PM? Anything? Breadcrumbs can be faked np. Same as with a breadcrumb, if you believe my claim, you may find that it explains some of my ShiaoPi v. WBG actions, and explains me trying to milk info from Sandroba. If you don't, you'll think I'm making it up, whether breadcrumb or explanation. The "anything" that I can PROVE my role with would be nothing, unless we have a rolecop. However, Sandro will flip red whenever you lynch him. And I'll flip watcher if I die. | ||
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austinmcc
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On December 06 2012 09:02 Blazinghand wrote: so wait austin explain again why you didn't vote/lynch sandro d2? it was because WBG case was so good? In part, it's kind of...circular if you look back at it. I knew Sandroba was mafia. If another good target didn't appear early, could always push Sandroba. From pretty early on, ShiaoPi was a candidate. Sandroba was voting ShiaoPi, made a small case on ShiaoPi, wanted ShiaoPi dead. In my mind, I'd gone into D2 thinking ShiaoPi was potentially mafia, but wasn't sure. Sandroba being on him scared me away from that. Not only was I slightly worried about WBG, but I still feel like Sandroba defended him in a bit of an odd manner, called him town in an odd manner. Because I knew Sandroba was mafia, I saw the case on ShiaoPi as weaker, and the case on WBG as stronger. Had extra information you didn't have from just looking at the cases. Couldn't be sure Sandroba wasn't bussing, or wasn't looking at two townies, but just didn't like his comments on WBG enough that I was okay with the idea that they were scumbuddies. Long as I think they're scumbuddies, I'm fine lynching WBG and not Sandroba. Claim right before night tonight, try and get another check off, either catch someone or no, and have a scumlynch D3. When the mason claims came out, I again have outside knowledge. Some people don't think there could be DT + vigi + 4 masons. I know that we have at least dt + watcher + some masons, and a claimed vigi. So that's another reason I'm extra insistent that we don't have 4 masons. If you thought the setup was too blue-heavy with so many masons, it's more blue heavy if you knew I was a watcher. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 06 2012 09:14 Xatalos wrote: Posts. Specifics.The main suspicious point about Dandel Ion was his clear lack of care for achieving anything. He posted little and didn't interact, scumhunt, analyze... It could have been just disinterested town as well though. But Sandroba has been transparent and his posts have been filled with real content. He's not my top town read, given his relative inactivity, but I'm not liking him as scum. You say Sandroba has been transparent. I disagree (not just because he didn't tell us he was scum). You say his posts have been filled with content. On December 03 2012 03:43 sandroba wrote: I'm gonna make a post with my comments right before the deadline. Replaces in, promises an end of night post. Fine, some people like not posting during night, but Sandroba JUST JOINED and says nothing but that there will be an end of night post. On December 03 2012 07:40 sandroba wrote: I have to go out quickly so I'ma post my thoughts early: Sandroba's Town List for dummies (TM): WBG - marvelosity = both too emo ragers for it to be fake. I can't see the genuine asshole behavior being faked here and there is no scum motivation for it. I would seriously like to lynch marv for being an assface jerk, but unfortunately I can't convince myself he is scum. Xatalos - LOL this guy is so townie I don't understand how you baddies manage to bandwagon him day 1. 'Nuff said. DYH - I really thought this guy was scum for his retard case on xatalos before I read the last 30 pages. However that last minute claim looks really good so I'm putting him as town. Hopefully he can get confirmed by shooting into scummers tonight. Assuming scum have 1 rb (can't really imagine them having 2) either him or marv should get their actions through. Scummers : Zealos, BlazingHand are scum. I don't think I need to explain why for BH. Read Zealos oportunistic jump on xata wagon. That post has scum written all over it. People that I'm unsure but leaning scum: VE - who you might ask? Yes this dude is playing in this game. I bet you didn't know either. Kei/Ace - Meh ace is a hard one for me to figure out. I thought he was scum when I was obsing because of his "Oh this is interesting" comment, but I'm liking kei a bit more. This BH case seems very convinient though. Here is his giant night post. 4 townreads including "so townie I don't understand how you baddies blah blah blah" which doesn't actually say anything. 2 scumreads, one he "doesn't think he needs to explain" and one post from Zealos that he doesn't like because "it has scum written all over it" LOOK AT THAT NIGHT POST. He replaces in, waits all night, ends night with that post. There are his reads. Half of them aren't even reads, they're just him saying he thinks someone is town or scum but without an actual reason. This from someone who replaced in, for someone who was inactive. On December 03 2012 21:38 sandroba wrote: Hmm Bugs does have a point. Also if we assume BH is town ShiaoPi does fit the same theme as VE yesterday. A totally unimpactful player that just stood by the sidelines, because their team was never in danger. I'm willing to roll with that because I'm getting cold feet about BH flipping scum (VE mentioning he is okay with lynching him/zealos should at least make us consider looking in another direction) and Shiao isn't doing shit so it's less risk involved. ##Vote: ShiaoPi ShiaoPi stood by sidelines, isn't doing shit. That's worth of a vote. WBG picks up some votes On December 04 2012 12:00 sandroba wrote: Omg I thought this would blow over, but I see it's getting momentum. I'll post my thoughts when I wake up. 11 hours later he finally defends WBG. On what grounds? "WBG's behavior makes no sense as mafia." No posts, no quoting, just "his behavior doesn't make sense." his "tone and emotional content" were genuine. No specifics. It's not quite a nothingpost, but it says what Sandroba thinks without the WHY he thinks that. N2 we get like 5 lines responding to DYH's rabbit hole. So Xatalos, Where has Sandroba been transparent? Which posts were filled with real content to you? Point them out. Let's discuss this. I know he's scum, but I'm curious about your defense of him. Because right now, you've never mentioned a single specific post, and I 100% disagree that Sandroba has been transparent. Moreover, I 1000% disagree with you that Sandroba was "transparent" at the time you made mention of him being so. I see a few posts with some reasoning and some logic, but most of them are after you already starting leaning townie on him. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 06 2012 09:26 Blazinghand wrote: Yeah, it should be.the lack of a PM and the lack of a rolecrumb is meaningless on an investigative role. The lack of a check/result crumb and the lack of pressure on sandro is trohblng I didn't crumb the risk/Gonzaw PM in bureaucracy either. I crumbed the hell out of being mason with Sciberbia in Can't Believe. But that's the only thing I've crumbed ever I believe. What I'd say is this - look at Sandroba's posts. Look at his N1, his N2. I probably cannot drop my confirmation bias, and I don't want to just yell my head off for 40 something hours today. But I believe that some of his posts that look like they have content don't, they're full of "reads" that aren't actually based on anything. A lot of the other posts don't have content at all. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 06 2012 10:04 Keirathi wrote: It's actually 100% guaranteed.Your confirmation bias? Confirmation bias comes from not being sure about something but convincing yourself anyways, not from having a 95%+ guaranteed scum check. Here's part of my problem (aside from the fact that you had a red check and didn't do anything about it): your WBG/ShiaoPi analysis doesn't fit with what sandro did in Chrono before he died. "I wouldn't trust Toad as party leader", and calling Dieno town, etc. And him not giving strong reasoning for his reads isn't alignment telling at all (hell, didn't you play with him in Looney where he did basically the same thing?) I know Sandroba is scum So everything I see from him I go, "Scum wrote that." Whatever it is, it's similar. It colors the entire way I see D2. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 06 2012 10:04 Keirathi wrote: I can't tell you whether Sandro is playing to this meta or that meta. I can tell you he's scum.Your confirmation bias? Confirmation bias comes from not being sure about something but convincing yourself anyways, not from having a 95%+ guaranteed scum check. Here's part of my problem (aside from the fact that you had a red check and didn't do anything about it): your WBG/ShiaoPi analysis doesn't fit with what sandro did in Chrono before he died. "I wouldn't trust Toad as party leader", and calling Dieno town, etc. And him not giving strong reasoning for his reads isn't alignment telling at all (hell, didn't you play with him in Looney where he did basically the same thing?) Then, I can pressure Xatalos for saying things about Sandroba that I personally don't find to be true. Right now, I don't care what Sandroba normally does as town or scum, because I know his alignment. I care what Xatalos thinks about Sandroba, because it's telling of Xatalos's alignment. Also yes, I played in Looney Lynching. And in Looney Lynching I actually DIDN'T lynch Sandroba D1. Do you know what I did do? I had a blue role, I was a veteran. And I decided to give away votes on D1 (everyone thought I was retarded) and be coy about my claim on the day I was lynched (people lynched me anyway). That's the only time I've ever been lynched, and it was because I'm a 'tard when blue. That's beside the point though. Sandroba is scum. Xatalos has some odd thoughts on him. I like investigating that. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
The "pressure" you quote is 3 small questions to people. Do you find that he followed up on his questions? Do his reads look like he actually cared about his questions and the way that other players answered? If "he asked these three questions" is something you find townie...there's a problem. In fact, you'll notice that you said Sandroba felt "townish" after REPLACING ONE OF YOUR TOP 3 SCUMREADS at 19:54 on December 3. Out of the posts you listed of Sandroba's, the following were prior to that: His asking about marv's sanity His 3 dinky questions His reads at the end of the night, which are half "it's so obvious I don't need to explain it" That's what you had to work with when you first said Sandroba seemed townie. Sandroba, the guy who replaced one of your top 3 scumreads from D1. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
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On December 06 2012 10:46 Xatalos wrote: If Dandel Ion wasn't a strong scumread for you, then who WERE your strong scumreads D1? Dandel Ion wasn't a strong scumread for me to at any point, maybe slightly leaning scum. He was just someone I wasn't feeling comfortable about since he didn't really seem to care. But Sandroba was the opposite, instantly asking relevant questions and sharing his opinions about any topic. Granted, I'd like to see some more evidence for his opinions from now on, but the point is that he clearly cares about what's happening in the thread and tries to actively direct the flow of the thread. IMO his posting style is a bit like MrZentor's, except more townish (with more reasoning and less sheeping). If you find Sandroba scummy, you should find MrZentor scummy as well (granted, he's clearly a Mason, but I mean on principle). 3 different opportunities you grouped together VE/DYH/Dandel Ion. VE was scummiest to you, you did say that. And I'm not whether I believe you'd have put 2 scumbuddies in a list of three. If Dandel Ion wasn't a strong scumread, was DYH? If neither of those were strong scumreads, you just had a strong scumread on VE and nobody else? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 06 2012 12:08 Keirathi wrote: I know there will be postgame discussion on this. I may well be in the wrong. But I think I'm willing to argue there's a fourth option:Again, you're completely missing the point of what I'm trying to say. Your actions during the day yesterday just don't line up with what a person with a scum check would do, IMO. So if you're an information role and have a scum check on someone, you really have 3 options: 1) Claim to get them lynched. Fine, you didn't want to do that. 2) Push as hard as you can for that person to get lynched without claiming. Make a case. Make a meta case. Do whatever you can to get SOMEONE to think that person is scum. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but you still have the claim to fall back on later. 3) Think you have zero chance of getting the person lynched without claiming, so you engage that person, and try to get them to slip up, and make some associative cases for when you do decide to claim. Which is what you said you were doing. But, if you have a scum check on someone and don't think you can push them to a lynch, why in the world wouldn't you go back and look at some scum games of that person to see what they tend to say about their teammates? Why would just assume that "sando saying WBG is town means that WBG is scum, and sandro pushing ShiaoPi means ShiaoPi is town"? Would you assume the same thing if that scum check was on marv, who has a history of bussing 'liability' teammates who are likely to get lynched anyways? You put no effort into doing anything that can be seen by me as even remotely pushing a town agenda towards a scum scum check. THAT'S my problem (4) Know a dude is scum, make sure you don't ever die without telling town, and try to use that knowledge to hunt MORE scum, not just the guy you know. Did it work? NOT PARTICULARLY WELL. But I don't think it's too farfetched to argue that if you know someone is scum, when he wants to lynch A and defends B, there's a decent chance that B is scum and A is not. Or at least that A is not. I believe I'm an idiot for taking it into account as much as I did, but I don't see it as not being something to use. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Moreover, hmmmm. If you don't think it makes sense for me to act as I did on D2, does it make sense for me to claim at the end of N2? If I'm scum trying to trade 1 for 1 with a townie, it's much easier to claim at the start of D3. I can claim tracker on Sandroba, watcher on DYH, cop, whatever. But if I'm faking, I could fake that I found out just now. If I'm scum trying to bus...same thing. I want town to flip scum AND I want to look town. Moreover, I would have discussed this with my scumbuddies, so if I'm scum and bussing...we all AGREED that I should make this play right at the end of night Does the timing actually make sense as scum? I guess you can argue that apparently it's stupid whether town or scum, but...oh well. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 06 2012 12:27 Keirathi wrote: Tbh, I wasn't actually planning on having to convince people. I know he's scum. If he dies, you'll know he's scum. If I die, you'll know he's scum. And if I got lucky and caught someone else, same thing...the proof is in the flips. Your 4th option is the same thing as the third option. You're playing the "long game" because you ddin't think you could get sandro lynched. And you're right, it's not out-of-this-world-unheard of for a scum to attack a townie and defend a scum partner (hell, attacking townies is what scum have to do to win a game), but its a fucking ridiculous assumption to assume that every person that a scum targets is town and everyone they defend is scum. And again: why didn't you do ANY kind of research into the matter? Maybe sandro loves to bus as scum every single game. Don't you think that would have affected your reads at all, if you wanted to play the "long game"? That's the part I don't get. Nothing you did matches up with what I would expect a reasonable person with a scum check to do. And I don't think you're an idiot in general, so that just leaves you lying and getting caught with your pants down. So nope, didn't go look at any past Sandroba games. No clue if he likes to bus. All I know is that other people say he's lazy as scum. That's it. I'd argue that he's been relatively lazy this game, ymmv on that. Just figured the fact that he's scum and that will eventually be proven would magically work, regardless of how he plays this game. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 06 2012 12:31 Blazinghand wrote: So there are a couple of things I don't like about austin's claim, and make me think it's a fake claim, ignoring rolecrumbs and role pm shenannies. 1) He didn't act on his N1 check in any way. I don't think with an N1 scum check on Sandro anyone would really be so passive. Like, shit man, why not push Sandro? Why pussyfoot around him? You can be like "oh I want more info" but nothing austinmcc does towards Sandro actually is like "yes info plz" or pressure or really anything you do to someone you have a strong scumread on. 2) His N2 check is sub-optimal. The #1 shots for last night for scum were DYH and Kei, who are the most confirmed. players. In theory, even though MrZ has been playing for the town all game, MrZ/BH is at least possible. The DYH 30 seconds claim and shot confirms him, and Kei has a flipped partner and is literally confirmed. I wasn't a realistic shot. 3) He didn't result-crumb. Without a result crumb at the start of D2 he's committed to claiming at the end of N2, which isn't how you do things as an investigative role. His actions don't really make sense 4) His red check is on a near-universal townread and he himself is scummy. Austinmcc is a great 1-for-1 sacrifice for the scumteam, especially eliminating someone who's a universal townread (but not confirmed). Right now we're at LYLO-1. If we lynch Sandro, then Austin, there are 2 scum left and we're at LYLO. Good situation for scum all things considered. I see no reason to believe this claim. ##vote: austinmcc You and BH claim role PMs that SAY THE OTHER PERSON IS TOWN. Keirathi and WBG's PMs don't say that. DYH was up there with you guys. I chose between you, Keirathi, and DYH. Eliminated folks based on setup speculation. Risky for you and MrZ to snap counterclaim Mason on Keirathi, and it can't be the case that only one of you is town because both your role PMs say the other guy is town. You are either BOTH scum or NEITHER of you is scum or your pms lie. It's not a bastard game, so PMs lying goes out the window. Therefore, you're either both scum or neither of you is scum. Keirathi doesn't have that same PM. Heck, yesterday people were on his case about the color of certain words in his PM. It's different. That doesn't mean he's scum, but he doesn't have the same 2 for 1 risk problem as you and MrZ. That, in my mind, makes him less confirmed. He's confirmed to be a mason with WBG. His alignment is not. DYH ... was an option but I didn't go with it. 15 player game and only 1 kp? I loves me some setup speculation, and that felt wrong. So I didn't want to check him because options were: (1) he's not actually a town vigi; (2) he is a town vigi, but claimed one-shot, and scum is okay with letting him live because his reads don't frighten them; (3) he is a town vigi, scum needs him gone. There's my thought process. Out of the masons, you and MrZ are taking a big risk counterclaiming. I don't currently think you guys are scum, and your PMs rule out a 1 scum/1 town mason pairing. Keirathi doesn't have the same, so you're more likely town than he is (this isn't just my opinion, there were a LOT of people thinking that you and MrZ are town now based on those PMs). So if I'm watching a mason, I watch you. Between you and DYH, EVEN IF DYH is town, there's a chance he's still not the kill, so I'd rather watch you. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 06 2012 12:36 Keirathi wrote: Why did I claim when I did if I'm scum?We aren't talking about why you didn't try to get Sandro killed. I thought we already agreed that was a terrible decision. We're talking about why you pushed to get WBG lynched because of his interactions with Sandro, while simultaneously saving ShiaoPi. If you know Sandro is scum, those kinds of interactions with Sandro can definitely be mined for information, IF YOU KNOW HOW YOU EXPECT SANDRO TO ACT. Just assuming that "scum isn't going to attack a teammate or defend a townie" is such faulty logic (and I can give you as many examples as you want of the opposites being true) that I don't believe that even you, as pants-on-head as you can get at times, would assume that and leave NO room for any other explanation. Between my earlier filter and Dandel Ion/Sandroba's earlier filter...who looks town to you. Either way, Sandroba and I should both end up dead here. I have given you what I can of why I did what I did D2. I'm not going to change my story to something you'd prefer or would believe more. I did what I did, for the reasons I say I did, whether it's stupid or not. So tomorrow I'm looking at LazerMonkey and some other general stuff. I don't like what I saw from Xatalos tonight. ShiaoPi is still doing whatever ShiaoPi's doing this game. I'm going to deal with that tomorrow. You can believe me or not, lynch me or sandroba or someone else or whatever. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 06 2012 12:42 Keirathi wrote: Of course I considered the possibility.Also, you were scum in Aperture 2. Your partner Hiro bussed your godfather/joat on day 1. Yet you didn't even CONSIDER the possibility that sandroba was? Or that WBG could actually be town? I didn't know what to make of ShiaoPi. Everything I wrote about WBG were my true thoughts, regardless of Sandroba's comments. There's absolutely a possibility that my read was wrong (it was). But I decided that between me not loving the marv interaction, never having an explanation on him disbelieving marv's claim, AND Sandroba's actions D2, I was confident in WBG being scum. I didn't go "What is Sandroba doing I will do the opposite." It was an additional factor for me beyond my basic thoughts. We can discuss whether I'm a jubjub, or King in the Jub, postgame. Yes, some/all of you think what I did, if I actually took the course of action I did, was stupid. Fine. Stupid is on another axis. It makes my claim less believable than if you didn't think what I did was stupid, but votes iz fer scumminess and not stupidity. Heck, if you want to talk meta, and how I didn't go check on Sandroba or anything, go look at my blue games. (1) Message DT in Bureaucracy - I decide it's a good plan to look like a paranoid idiot early on in order to not be a threat to anyone and survive until lategame (Kind of a good idea? But definitely altering my play that whole game because of a role) (2) Mason in Can't Believe - Mason chat has bunch of discussion about when to claim, how to claim, etc. etc. Sciberbia and I got caught up in being blue, wasted a lot of time being idiots. Heck, I flipped mason and Sciberbia DIDN'T CLAIM to be my buddy, because we were so paranoid. (3) Vigi in...LVII? I think that's right. Two-shot vigi. Shoot someone N1. N2 what do I do? Hold my shot instead of dropping a lurker or anyone helpful to town, thinking, as I did here, that by using my powers later on I could potentially benefit town. Ended up dead. (4) Veteran in Looney Lynching - THIS ISN'T EVEN A POWER ROLE. I JUST DON'T DIE TO ONE SHOT. And yet i STILL concoct a stupid plan to give away votes at the end of D1, which I thought would make me look townie and draw a shot, but everyone else finds scummy. Then on the day I get lynched, I decide to be all mysterious and save my claim til the last moment hoping someone would figure things out and not even really understanding why some folks were voting for me. 2 times I've been blue I actively played differently than normal because of blue. The vigi game is the same logic as here, "Well, won't get the most of out my power NOW, because I can potentially get MORE out of it if I use it later too." Mason game is partially just us being idiots at some points in time because of blue. If you're going to think I'm scummy because I didn't do homework you would have done, you should at least do the same homework yourself. I appreciate that you don't think I'm an idiot, but here's a different question, do you think I'm an idiot when I'm blue? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
You think my timing/actions are stupid. You think they're stupid whether I'm town or mafia, yes? It doesn't magically make sense for me to claim at what apparently was a retarded to time if I'm mafia, does it? If you think I should have claimed at the start of D2, or been more apparent during D2, how does that lead you to believe that I am mafia? If I were mafia, I could have: (1) Planned this ahead of time. Could have acted in accordance with how you think I should have on D2. Could have claimed at the start of D3, said I got a N2 check. (2) Not planned this ahead of time. Still would be more believable I guess to claim at the start of D3, say I got a N2 check. If you think the timing is wrong, or my actions are wrong, for me being watcher, fine. But how are they right for me being mafia? The timing/actions would still seem wrong to you, regardless of my alignment, right? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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