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On December 04 2012 03:20 Keirathi wrote:@austinmcc: Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 11:38 austinmcc wrote:On December 01 2012 11:07 VisceraEyes wrote:
Yeah Mad Men I think. Maybe it was someone else....with a chart and everything. Not me. I have a super secret method of reading you. So what was your super secret method, and why did you never mention VE at all in regards to a read of him? Fine fine. I don't want to have to reveal this, but I will. My super secret method of reading VE is:- Have him be the lynch target of the day
- Vote for him
- Realize about 5-10 minutes before lynch that I get the feeling he's actually town
- Don't say anything and let townVE get lynched anyway
- Regret that, and then watch as he flips town
See: LV and PTP3, and thoughts inside my head during each of those games. Ta da, that's my super secret method.
Didn't mention him because he wasn't doing tons, and wasn't a lynch option at any point really. Was focused elsewhere.
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On December 04 2012 04:03 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 03:39 DoYouHas wrote:
Keirathi, what I have gathered about you is that you think Sandro is town, and the rest is you pushing BH. You put together a pretty good case against BH based off of you following along even when you weren't playing. Are there any other players you had strong opinions/thoughts on that are still relevant? Strong opinions? Not particularly. I'm minorly interested in ShiaoPi/Zealos/(kinda)austin, outside of BH. (Maybe MrZ too, but I have no fucking clue how to read him.) Zealos because he hasn't done a damn thing. ShiaoPi because he didn't seem very invested in the game day 1, was happy to go along with the BH lynch while it was the popular opinion, and then happily changed his mind again as soon as the popular opinion was that BH was probably town. austin just because he's hard to read and he played follow-the-leader with his voting, which kind of reminds me of how he played in aperture. You silly. I didn't start the voting, but I did point out how much I disliked his post unvoting xatalos and voting DP. Shortly after that was when votes started coming in for him (Although MrZ did have a prior vote that he had removed and then brought back, so unsure if it was specifically because of my comment). I can see why that would remind you of aperture, but I am ze townie.
I think if you look at WHEN I'm bringing things up here, you won't feel that I'm playing follow-the-leader, but I may just have a blind spot towards it.
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On December 04 2012 04:46 wherebugsgo wrote:w/e, RB or not it doesn't really matter. + Show Spoiler [dota] +What DOES matter is that I just went 12-2-27 as invoker and still lost. This game is like a process of elimination right now. We have established several players as town and basically we just need to kill based on the flips we saw last night. It's that simple, really. I find it odd that BH is not around and talking, but certainly he has time to do so. Also seeing as sandro agrees with me it probably means shiao is scum lolol (<3 sandro scumhunting abilities)
(1) We all know that WBG raged at his team, went afk in fountain with Exort invoker, and stole all those kills/assists with Suntrike.
(2) I'd like to hear more from you concering folks that aren't ShiaoPi or VE. I got not problem with you sitting back D1, but short of other claims it looks like you or sandro or DYH would be the likely mafia targets tonight. For instance, you wanted to pressure these folks:On December 02 2012 09:44 wherebugsgo wrote:
I also think we should be pressuring these players:
MrZentor
Zealos
Dandel Ion
Shiaopi
since they essentially got away with either abstaining or not doing anything all day 1.
I haven't played with MrZ. I know he has a bit of a reputation. I've found him pretty clear and logical this whole game. Does that strike you as odd, or do you have a problem with that? Or does it make you think he's town? Do you still want to pressure him?
Zealos hasn't posted since partway through D1. You brought him up a little in relation to VE, but what do you make of his actual posts. I didn't like them D1 when talking to LazerMonkey, BH found them townie, but you haven't said anything about the actual posts that he did make, which is all we have to go off of.
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Considering. I've been wavering on WBG, but for different reasons. Not sure if I want to lynch him today or no.
My worries about him actually come from the spat he had with marv N1. We know marv was town. We know marv was the N1 kill. Heck, MARV should have known he'd be the N1 kill, because he knew his claim was true.
Look at his N1. He may have expected a doc, but didn't say anything like that. He was mostly silent. Porque? Porque does a good scumhunter who is town NOT put down a lot of N1 thoughts?
* DRAMATIC NOISE * BECAUSE OF WBG. From the very start of the night, marv and WBG got into their little shitfest. I know I've seen both get frustrated/pissy/whatever before, but...it's still curious to me because of - Movie Star Mini Mafia.
- WBG hosted Movie Star
- Marv played in Movie Star
- One of the defining bits of movie star was a MASSIVE shitfight between VE and marv
- Both were town, and both were useless for a good chunk of a cycle because they just kept sniping at each other
- WBG knows that marvel can get thrown off track if you just keep yelling at him
If I were scum in this game, and I knew marv's claim was legit, and was going to make him the N1 kill...I'd do my best to neutralize any scum-hunting he was going to contribute, because we're going to know he's town and can take it as truth.
WBG did a nice job of neutralizing Marv's scumhunting, while knowing that marv can react unproductively to constant sniping.
To some extent, this may just be a narrative that I like, but WBG is one of the players that I wouldn't put it past. I'm not sure how his stubbornness and possible ego weigh out against his knowledge that he could mess with Marv's head like that.
Keirathi, I assume you hate this post, sorry. It both follows up a target that's already being discussed AND doesn't vote. I secretly want to play BH and just post cases about all sorts of uninvolved people to try and stir crap up, but I don't have the time right now.
So uninvolved people...pretend there are a bunch of cases posted on you. OH NO. BETTER POST AND TRY TO LOOK TOWNIE.
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On December 04 2012 12:38 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 12:35 Blazinghand wrote:
lol keirathi can't find anyone who supports his case against me so he's making them up I'm not even trying to get anyone to support my case, what the hell. I'm trying to show why I don't think marv and WBG getting into a shitfit makes WBG scum. MARV didn't think he was scum during the shitfit. Which is directly different from the marv getting in a shitfit with Palmar in Rock Band.
Different, but I'm not sure if it's in a meaningful way.
I care less about what Marv may or may not have thought, and more about what WBG DID.
WBG poking and prodding Marv after hosting a game and making comments about how marv got caught up in being poked and prodded shows me that he was doing it intentionally. Regardless of how marv read WBG, I don't like the idea that town WBG is getting all over marv's case at the start of the only night he's alive, with scum probably knowing they were shooting marv that night.
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On December 04 2012 12:46 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 12:42 austinmcc wrote:On December 04 2012 12:38 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 12:35 Blazinghand wrote:
lol keirathi can't find anyone who supports his case against me so he's making them up I'm not even trying to get anyone to support my case, what the hell. I'm trying to show why I don't think marv and WBG getting into a shitfit makes WBG scum. MARV didn't think he was scum during the shitfit. Which is directly different from the marv getting in a shitfit with Palmar in Rock Band. Different, but I'm not sure if it's in a meaningful way. I care less about what Marv may or may not have thought, and more about what WBG DID. WBG poking and prodding Marv after hosting a game and making comments about how marv got caught up in being poked and prodded shows me that he was doing it intentionally. Regardless of how marv read WBG, I don't like the idea that town WBG is getting all over marv's case at the start of the only night he's alive, with scum probably knowing they were shooting marv that night. Well you have to remember, WBG obstensibly had a scum read on marv, despite the DT claim. He was voting marv, and marv was a major pusher for the DP lynch. Is it unreasonable for a townie with a scum read on someone who was the main proponent of a townie mislynch to argue with them during the night? I think it's reasonable to suspect them. To make a case on them. To call them scum, whatever.
I actually DON'T think it's reasonable to shit up the thread like they did. Heck, if it were reasonable, there wouldn't be a big blue post from the host telling them to knock it off.
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On December 04 2012 12:52 DoYouHas wrote:
WBG kept using being right about DP as a reason he isn't scum. Why does that make sense? With his vote on the DT, and DP/myself also being town, I don't see how he can take the high ground there. If WBG had his way we would have lynched the DT. It is just WIFOM over whether or not a scum WBG would defend DP.
Keirathi/austin - I'll redirect my question that I asked WBG (but he seems to want to ignore) to both of you. What did you think of my vote analysis that led me to Lazer? If you disagree, why?
I'm a sucker for stuff like that, and I think it's a good thing to look at. I'd rather have more days of voting to work off of before really giving weight to voting, however. I'm headed to sleep, but I'll look at your lazer stuff and some of the other side bits from today more in the morning and give you more full thoughts.
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On December 04 2012 12:53 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 12:48 austinmcc wrote:On December 04 2012 12:46 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 12:42 austinmcc wrote:On December 04 2012 12:38 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 12:35 Blazinghand wrote:
lol keirathi can't find anyone who supports his case against me so he's making them up I'm not even trying to get anyone to support my case, what the hell. I'm trying to show why I don't think marv and WBG getting into a shitfit makes WBG scum. MARV didn't think he was scum during the shitfit. Which is directly different from the marv getting in a shitfit with Palmar in Rock Band. Different, but I'm not sure if it's in a meaningful way. I care less about what Marv may or may not have thought, and more about what WBG DID. WBG poking and prodding Marv after hosting a game and making comments about how marv got caught up in being poked and prodded shows me that he was doing it intentionally. Regardless of how marv read WBG, I don't like the idea that town WBG is getting all over marv's case at the start of the only night he's alive, with scum probably knowing they were shooting marv that night. Well you have to remember, WBG obstensibly had a scum read on marv, despite the DT claim. He was voting marv, and marv was a major pusher for the DP lynch. Is it unreasonable for a townie with a scum read on someone who was the main proponent of a townie mislynch to argue with them during the night? I think it's reasonable to suspect them. To make a case on them. To call them scum, whatever. I actually DON'T think it's reasonable to shit up the thread like they did. Heck, if it were reasonable, there wouldn't be a big blue post from the host telling them to knock it off. But you KNOW marv was town, and he participated in it just as much as WBG did. You asked if it was reasonable for someone to do what WBG did.
I don't think EITHER ONE of them was being reasonable, unless WBG is mafia. There are non-mafia explanations, frustration/ego/whatever. But it's not a reasonable action to fight like that in thread UNLESS WBG is mafia. Just an unreasonable action with somewhat of an explanation.
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On December 04 2012 12:59 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 12:56 austinmcc wrote:On December 04 2012 12:53 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 12:48 austinmcc wrote:On December 04 2012 12:46 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 12:42 austinmcc wrote:On December 04 2012 12:38 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 12:35 Blazinghand wrote:
lol keirathi can't find anyone who supports his case against me so he's making them up I'm not even trying to get anyone to support my case, what the hell. I'm trying to show why I don't think marv and WBG getting into a shitfit makes WBG scum. MARV didn't think he was scum during the shitfit. Which is directly different from the marv getting in a shitfit with Palmar in Rock Band. Different, but I'm not sure if it's in a meaningful way. I care less about what Marv may or may not have thought, and more about what WBG DID. WBG poking and prodding Marv after hosting a game and making comments about how marv got caught up in being poked and prodded shows me that he was doing it intentionally. Regardless of how marv read WBG, I don't like the idea that town WBG is getting all over marv's case at the start of the only night he's alive, with scum probably knowing they were shooting marv that night. Well you have to remember, WBG obstensibly had a scum read on marv, despite the DT claim. He was voting marv, and marv was a major pusher for the DP lynch. Is it unreasonable for a townie with a scum read on someone who was the main proponent of a townie mislynch to argue with them during the night? I think it's reasonable to suspect them. To make a case on them. To call them scum, whatever. I actually DON'T think it's reasonable to shit up the thread like they did. Heck, if it were reasonable, there wouldn't be a big blue post from the host telling them to knock it off. But you KNOW marv was town, and he participated in it just as much as WBG did. You asked if it was reasonable for someone to do what WBG did. I don't think EITHER ONE of them was being reasonable, unless WBG is mafia. There are non-mafia explanations, frustration/ego/whatever. But it's not a reasonable action to fight like that in thread UNLESS WBG is mafia. Just an unreasonable action with somewhat of an explanation. That's kind of my point. It might not have been reasonable for WBG to fight with marv in thread, but it wasn't reasonable for marv to fight either. So if you know marv is town, why does it automatically make WBG scum? One townie can do it, but not two? It's because, to some extent, I refuse to believe WBG didn't know what he was doing.
If you come at it from that angle, WBG purposefully kept that crap going. Can you come up with a reason to do so other than WBG = mafia?
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On December 04 2012 13:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
Please tell me what you would do when you ask someone for their explanation for why someone is scum and you get told to "fuck off". Part of the reason I called marv scum was precisely that line.
I don't care about calling him scum. Heck, BH more or less told me to fuck off around the same time period, concerning the language he'd used about DYH being a vigi. I responded by questioning him, trying to get some answers.
But I didn't get into a giant pissing contest with him. I don't think I insulted him at all. Some of that is just differences in how we play the game, but are you really going to try and convince me that you and marv's little spat, that lasted ... a couple pages? and drew host comments, was just what you'd do when told to fuck off?
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On December 04 2012 13:11 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 13:10 austinmcc wrote:On December 04 2012 13:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
Please tell me what you would do when you ask someone for their explanation for why someone is scum and you get told to "fuck off". Part of the reason I called marv scum was precisely that line.
I don't care about calling him scum. Heck, BH more or less told me to fuck off around the same time period, concerning the language he'd used about DYH being a vigi. I responded by questioning him, trying to get some answers. But I didn't get into a giant pissing contest with him. I don't think I insulted him at all. Some of that is just differences in how we play the game, but are you really going to try and convince me that you and marv's little spat, that lasted ... a couple pages? and drew host comments, was just what you'd do when told to fuck off? So since we were both in on it, guess we were both scum?! Wow, amazing logic. To be fair...host says you're scum.On November 22 2012 06:53 JingleHell wrote:
Setup Information
This game is a completely closed setup. Trust noone. They're all lying scum. Host says marv is scum too...so yeah. Completely logical.
I'm actually headed to bed, will maybe pick this back up in the morning. Also gonna note that I don't put too much faith in "both people doing same thing, marv town, therefore WBG certainly town." Again, I have a hard time believing you didn't know what you were doing, that you weren't purposefully provoking that.
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On December 04 2012 13:15 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 13:14 austinmcc wrote:On December 04 2012 13:11 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 04 2012 13:10 austinmcc wrote:On December 04 2012 13:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
Please tell me what you would do when you ask someone for their explanation for why someone is scum and you get told to "fuck off". Part of the reason I called marv scum was precisely that line.
I don't care about calling him scum. Heck, BH more or less told me to fuck off around the same time period, concerning the language he'd used about DYH being a vigi. I responded by questioning him, trying to get some answers. But I didn't get into a giant pissing contest with him. I don't think I insulted him at all. Some of that is just differences in how we play the game, but are you really going to try and convince me that you and marv's little spat, that lasted ... a couple pages? and drew host comments, was just what you'd do when told to fuck off? So since we were both in on it, guess we were both scum?! Wow, amazing logic. To be fair...host says you're scum. On November 22 2012 06:53 JingleHell wrote:
Setup Information
This game is a completely closed setup. Trust noone. They're all lying scum. Host says marv is scum too...so yeah. Completely logical. I'm actually headed to bed, will maybe pick this back up in the morning. Also gonna note that I don't put too much faith in "both people doing same thing, marv town, therefore WBG certainly town." Again, I have a hard time believing you didn't know what you were doing, that you weren't purposefully provoking that. I'm not saying that WBG is town because marv was town. I'm saying that WBG fighting with marv has nothing to do with WBG's alignment, imo.
That bit was specific to where I thought WBG was going.
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/snoring
I'm having a dream. I'm dreaming that...that DYH isn't confirmed. That there are other explanations. That if scum only has 1 KP in a 15-person game, something is wrong. I'm dreaming that...it seems there should be an SK, or more than 1 KP, etc. etc.
I'm dreaming that we need to be careful not to call out "confirmed townies," even if we're relatively sure.
/snore
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Checking in for a moment, won't be able to post more thoroughly for 6ish hours afaik.
WBG's posts last night initially struck me as scummy. I'm not sure that they do after sleeping on it and thinking some more.
Sandroba, you've been sort of sideways-defending WBG. On December 04 2012 12:00 sandroba wrote:
Omg I thought this would blow over, but I see it's getting momentum. I'll post my thoughts when I wake up.
On December 04 2012 23:08 sandroba wrote:
LISTEN PEOPLE!
I've reread WBG's filter a couple times by now. Consider please that yesterday lynch was between 2 townies and scum shot marvelosity. WBG's behavior makes no sense as mafia. Even if you can twist it somehow like you guys have been trying to do, the tone and emotional content of his posts are very genuine. I've played with mafia bugs before, and while he is hard to read, he is either non confrontational or trollish, he doesn't pick fights with people for absolutely no gain like he has been doing this game. You find the tone of his posts, and their emotion, genuine. That doesn't actually say anything. That tells me bugs is invested in the game, and serious about what he's saying...but so what? He wasn't super invested D1, which is fine. He was super invested in his fight with marv and somewhat invested in his defense now, but I don't see why he'd have to FAKE emotion for either of those. Nobody is saying "yeah, wbg FAKING all this. (I know you like to scumhunt based on sincerity and tone and whatnot, but I don't feel that you've actually explained yourself here)
I'd also take issue with you saying he doesn't pick fights with people for no gain. I don't think you can say there was no gain for sure, because marv didn't do boatloads N1 while he should have been nearly certain he was going to die. Whether WBG is scum or not, his spat with marv, assuming it caused marv to pull away from the game N1, was detrimental to town beyond clogging up the thread.
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On December 04 2012 22:51 Xatalos wrote:
Heh. Well, I really hope so. I've also played with ShiaoPi before and I must say he was a lot more active and decisive back then. He even defended a (Mafia) player to the very end against every other player and was pretty clear on his reads. Now it feels like he's just giving vague reads and jumping on any realistic bandwagon.
On December 04 2012 22:56 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 22:51 Xatalos wrote:On December 04 2012 22:38 Keirathi wrote:On December 04 2012 22:34 Xatalos wrote:
On the other hand, if ShiaoPi happened to flip town, it would mean some of my reads were seriously wrong. I think I'll have to reread several filters with the mindset that ShiaoPi would actually be town. I'm not seeing it right now, but it's a possibility after all. Don't worry, he's not going to flip town. I've played with town ShiaoPi and scum ShiaoPi. This ShiaoPi is the latter. Heh. Well, I really hope so. I've also played with ShiaoPi before and I must say he was a lot more active and decisive back then. He even defended a (Mafia) player to the very end against every other player and was pretty clear on his reads. Now it feels like he's just giving vague reads and jumping on any realistic bandwagon. That game was a long time ago and I was also in a different timezone, much more fitting for playing with EU/NA. Just saying you should not take that game as a basis for meta, go for more recent games such as Liquid City or LVI and LVII
Xatalos, I would suggest looking at... LVII at least.
I remember having the same feeling about ShiaoPi there that I did D1 here. He turned out to be town.
It doesn't make him town here, but ... I've seen town ShiaoPi be relatively uninvested early compared to his play in that newbie game.
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On December 04 2012 23:53 sandroba wrote:
@austin your point is?
I can't figure out why you're defending WBG in the manner you are.
Relying on alignments of people at lynch and his sincerity/emotion don't feel like strong arguments to me, and if he's been sincerely anything this game it's flippant when anyone brought up his posting D1 and when votes starting falling on him D2.
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I would most like to kill Zealos right now, but it looks like that's unnecessary. the long absence is a long absence, but even when he was here his posts were mostly one-liners and then slightly longer commentary on things that didn't matter and didn't present much in the way of reads.
I don't want to kill ShiaoPi today.
WBG, could you speak a little more about why you didn't believe marv's cop claim?
On December 02 2012 07:27 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 06:52 marvellosity wrote:On December 02 2012 06:52 Blazinghand wrote:
yeah a role PM would be nice marv
I do think Ace makes a reasonable case for why Marv's claim is bad and should be punished, but as a rule lynching blue claims D1 is bad. Sorry Ace. You are Jamie Hyneman. Your love of the scientific method makes it possible for you to find out how shit works. You've also got a cool collection of cameras and stuff, that you can totally use to track people. (Detective) LOL what kind of shit cop claims day 1? Of all people marv would know that this is a terrible idea as town. So, guess what? HE'S NOT TOWN!
On December 02 2012 07:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
why does it matter, prplhz thought he was dying just like you.
scum do whatever they want to live when they think they're gonna die After Can't Believe, you had a whole list of hypotheticals, presenting claims and asking people to think critically about whether they were real or fake.
Good Lord I love bringing up past games, but that is also something I'm having trouble with here. Why did you not believe marv's claim?
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On December 05 2012 06:02 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 05:04 Lazermonkey wrote:
debears, am I correct when I say you got down Keir and WBG as scum team? I'm not sure on Keir. His posting today gives me a townie vibe, despite Ace's d1. I'm more worried about WBG/Shiao
For what it's worth, I think I found Ace's D1 townie. It's difficult to say for sure, because he replaced out without dumping his thoughts into thread, so it's tough to tell for sure. But at least some of his comments and responses led me to believe that he was coming at the game from a townie perspective.
Cite me examples, you say! Can't really except that I know I noticed him speaking mainly about players he'd played with before, and asked him about that, worried that he was just chiming in occasionally and not really looking at the game.
It would take no effort for him to lie when answering that, to say that he was reading everyone's posts and thinking about them, but I took his answer to be sincere, even though we didn't really get to SEE that with him replacing out.
/ramble off
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On December 05 2012 06:13 DoYouHas wrote:
Whichever direction the lynch goes today, I think we are going to kill town. I'm moving my vote to Shiaopi simply because I'm less willing to sacrifice bugs than him to make you realize that you are all off track.
Lazer is scum. BH, my reasons for voting Lazer are not lazy. I came to the same conclusion from looking into both the voting patterns and VE's filter. I was ready to rethink my assumptions when I was filtering WBG and VE. Indeed, I did exactly that for both Keirathi and WBG. BUT, my conviction on Lazer was only strengthened. BH classified my analysis of VE's posting on Lazer to be 'soft defending'. This makes me wonder if he even read it. The ONLY mention that could be construed that way was the first one where Lazer made a generalization about people's behavior and VE responded with "truth". It was a nothing interaction, not soft defending, and I classified it as such.
Hypothetical - If I was to come out with a PBPA on Lazer now, what would happen? You all would ignore me even more than you are now because you would assume I was tunneling Lazer, just like I tunneled Xata. I gave you the evidence that convinced me, and you are all fools to ignore it.
It is time to wake up and smell the coffee town, neither of our candidates today are scum. And in true BH style, I will eat my hat if I'm wrong.
##Unvote Lazermonkey
##Vote Shiaopi
HYPOTHETICAL LAND.
You're scum this game. WBG is town. WBG and sandroba are both vets with solid scumhunting credentials. sandroba not a lynch option, because he looks townie.
Aren't you going to make the play to try and get WBG lynched? If that's true, in the same way we've looked at "someone voting for x probably scum," there is almost certainly scum on WBG if he's town. Saves you an early NK on someone you were going to have to get rid of, and you let town do most of the heavy lifting.
Do you agree with that thought process, that scum would be delighted to mislynch town WBG today? If so, who, out of the folks on WBG, do you think is scum?
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EPT
