EPTChrono Trigger Mafia
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phagga
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##give pendant to marle | ||
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On November 21 2012 07:23 VisceraEyes wrote: And you know the harder I fight it the more likely I am to be inched. This is well documented. Yeah I heard some people go the whole nine yard to inch you. | ||
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On November 21 2012 12:46 Clarity_nl wrote: One thing no one has mentioned that we have to consider is that sending people on missions will affect their hp in some way I'm sure, this means we can't just use the same party setup every time. Using the 4 towniest people mission 1 might hurt us down the line. This only means that ideally we would be only sending VTs. Since that will probably be impossible, we should not put to much thought to it. After all, if the events help us win the game, no townie should be afraid of sacrificing some of his HP or his life for the cause. On November 21 2012 13:06 goodkarma wrote: Who I would nominate (if not myself): As of right now, my support for a party leader (besides myself) would be sandroba. Sandroba seems to be adopting a solid strategy at present. I wholeheartedly agree with going with the most townie individuals, even if they are inexperienced. We don't know how the minigames are going to work yet, but we do know with 100% certainty that scum will count against their success. In a game where we don't lynch, all we can do is establish who is actually town. It is absolutely ridiculous to nominate people who have both strong scum and town games and are hard to read day one (thinking of Marv). I also completely agree with the suggestion that's been brought up that parties be suggested by those who are hoping to be nominated up-front. This is especially important if we are to nominate a townie who isn't as experienced. Goodkarma for President: As your leader, I will do my best to further the policy of choosing the most obvious townies as detailed above. Along those lines, I would elect to choose both sandroba and promethelax for my party. The third is still tentative, as the game has only been going for a short time. You would vote Sandroba because you think his strategy is solid. His strategy involves taking less known townies on the team and no additional vets, to make it harder for scum to decide who to snipe. Your Strategy however would be to take at least one vet and a well known, albeit newer town player to your team. Why? On November 21 2012 14:10 Z-BosoN wrote: @Djodref I've never played with sandroba nor am I familiar with his meta. There are a lot of people here that are though (lots of vets), so I'm taking an overall town perspective. This is an assumption of course, but I think it's a fair one. You are therefore assuming that one of the vets is town, is able to read sandroba as scum(my) and is able to convince town about it, necessarly against other vets who might be scum as well? On November 21 2012 15:04 Keirathi wrote: Man, am I the only person who doesn't want to be party leader? Maybe that sounds scummy because "Keir doesn't want to be held accountable for his choices", but I'm certainly willing to say who I want to be party leader and who I would want in the party. Its just that I don't trust my ability to read people enough to put the final decision into my own hands :o I feel you. I know my D1 reads are often not good, so I'd be a bad choice for party leader at D1. @Dieno, Please cut the fluff, this does not help town. Could you give us some insight if you have any experience with mafia outside of TL? Or are you totally new to this kind of game? | ||
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Why is everyone asking for town reads? I understand that the mechanics are working differently, but everyone just spreading their townreads like the flu will only make it easier for scum to decide who to shoot at night. People like Keirathi and me who have no desire in being elected D1 should not be giving out any townreads, instead we can actually scum hunt in the traditional way and establish ourselfes as town this way. I even think that most candidates should not be throwing out their town reads unless they seem to be a serious candidate (meaning several people have voiced interest in voting that person). | ||
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On November 21 2012 16:03 Oatsmaster wrote: Nice post phagga. Do you have a strategy on picking the party leaders/party members? I will pick a party leader who (priority in this order): 1.) I have a town read on 2.) Is good at reading people D1 3.) has a sound plan how to choose his team 4.) Suggests/chooses team members that I agree with 1 and 2 are a must, 3 and 4 are nice to have. | ||
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On November 21 2012 16:35 goodkarma wrote: The reason we're not doing traditional scumhunting is because we don't have the power to lynch scum. Our time is best used determining who is most likely town, as we're (hopefully) voting for townies as party leader. I've touched on this a few times. Hopefully this is the last time clarification is needed. This game isn't about scumhunting. Rather, it revolves around townhunting. Ok, looks like I need to clarify myself. Townhunting is stupid. Do you know why? Because scum can fake it to no end, since they know who is not scum. Talking about who is townie makes it much easier for scum to blend in, which then makes it much harder for town to choose the right people for their teams. Yes, there may be multiple factions in this game. Still, if we force scum to scumhunt they are more likely to trip as if they can just give their townreads out. So, no, I disagree that this game revolves around townhunting. We find out who is townie by scumhunting, not by townhunting. | ||
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On November 22 2012 02:28 Hopeless1der wrote: Does this scale move across to green/blue? What color are you and what color is syllo? Why exaclty is this important to you? What do you hope to gain from it? | ||
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On November 22 2012 01:34 Acrofales wrote: Didn't I already answer that question? Oh yes. I remember. I did: At the time, I was leaning Djoref, because I was feeling town on him, and sending a somewhat experienced town seemed better than veteran Sandro with 3 noobies. However, he says he cannot commit the time, leaving us with Sandro and Syllo. Iamperfection and Dino are unfortunately not serious candidates for me. Perfection is way too focused on people seeing him as town and not nearly focused enough on playing the game. Dino is fluffy. Talking about fluffy, where is BioSC? What's with Kita? On November 21 2012 21:23 Acrofales wrote: @syllo and phagga: you advocate a policy of scumhunting, yet are doing no scumhunting. People who seem to be clearly focused on scumhunting so far: clarity and toad. Why are you not in that list? Syllo at least is giving a running commentary of the game. Phagga just posted the policy of scumhunting and went away. Phagga, why are you not practicing what you preach? I was busy | ||
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On November 22 2012 02:40 syllogism wrote: CaveJohnson who are you? It would be helpful to know in order to determine whether you should "know better" than to say some of the things you have said. Obviously the fact that you chose to use that account suggests that you don't want us to know, but if you are town it would be in your best interest to reconsider. I don't like your posts either, although the fact you said you don't want to be picked for the mission is slightly towny, depending on your reasoning, which I expect you to later reveal. why is that townie? I would expect a townie to want to be part of every mission if possible, as it will make sure that at least that spot is not occupied by scum (from that specific townies point of view). | ||
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On November 22 2012 03:14 Dienosore wrote: I italicized 'first' because I wanted to draw attention to the fact that party leaders will be changing quite often and I feel as if people are thinking this is going to be a permanent position. As for the majority elected team, I think it's more logical to do things this way, at least for the first cycle while we are completely in the dark. I don't view polling the masses as dodging responsibility, but rather taking away the mafias chance to have an iron grip on the initial proceedings (assuming scum is elected and starts a dictatorship). By putting the vote out into the open, we also have another opportunity to see where loyalties lie. It is naive at least to think that town is able to vote 3 townies on D1. Looking at players like kushm4sta you should realize fast that sometimes townies don't have a clue what they are doing. Chances are that at least one scum will be voted into the team. | ||
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- Dienosore: I could very well imagine that he is 3rd party. If not, then town. do not think he is scum, as I cannot imagine scum to enter the thread the way he did. However, I oppose having him on the party. - Goodkarma: I will have to go through his filter again (not in the next 10 hours though), but my gut currently says that he is talking too much about the importance of townhunting. I have him in my mind as "looks like he is contributing but is not really helping town". Do not want him on the party. - CaveJohnson: willing to sacrifice players regardless of their alignement? 3rd Party at least, scum at worst. | ||
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On November 21 2012 22:28 marvellosity wrote: I'm not interested at running for party leader atm. And it's not about gauging support, I'd probably just tell town to vote for me from the get go if I wanted it. Why don't I want it? Like syllo I've been hoping to be somewhat 'lazy'. While I will give this game my full attention like any other, partly I've come along for the ride. I don't want to dominate this game (for better or worse) like I'm capable of doing. Plus I don't feel very at home in themed setups like this. There are going to be some differences in how scum/town players act compared to normal setups, and I don't know what they are yet. There are a few players in this game who I hold in extremely high regard (I think are better than me) and in that situation I feel somewhat insecure. If those players weren't in the game I'm pretty sure I would be standing for party leader because I'd think I knew best out of everyone playing, but I don't think that in this game. This post really bothers me. It's hard to grasp what exactly disturbs me. Let's try. What if those players you hold in high regards are all scum or 3rd party? I mean, in a game where there are several vets it would be even more important that as many strong town members as possible try to lead town. If all just hope that the next vet will do it, scum can fuck us over even harder considering the lineup. i really do not like how you are stealing yourself out of the responsibility here. This is a perfect setup for later to find excuses. And if you are town, it is probably not helping town. | ||
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On November 22 2012 07:29 marvellosity wrote: what potential excuses do you think that post might lead to? I will quite happily discuss it with you now so you can hold me accountable to it later. I don't know. I think. I was just pretty surprised by this, normally people announce stuff like that before the game starts, and not in the middle of D1. It will at least give you a good excuse why your meta might be off. Look, honestly, I don't know what you could abuse it for. I just don't like it. I read it for the first time, scrolled down to the next post, then stopped and went back and read it again. It just feels... wrong. But I cannot really give you a good reason why. | ||
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If you trust Sandro so much, why do you not vote him? If GK thinks Sandro is so townie that you includes him in your team, why should I vote you instead of Sandro? What do you say to the following: You are scum, you include a town sandro to make his team more townie, hoping to catch more votes like that. | ||
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On November 22 2012 10:27 Z-BosoN wrote: @Phagga + Show Spoiler + on november something phagga wrote: You are therefore assuming that one of the vets is town, is able to read sandroba as scum(my) and is able to convince town about it, necessarly against other vets who might be scum as well? A couple of people have mentioned being familiar with his meta and being able to discern him scum from town. I am assuming that he is easier than syllogism to pin fdown, and according to my logic that I presented earlier (which no one seemed to want to discuss), I think this weighs heavier. Personally, however, I'm not familiar with either of their meta, so I'm trying to take in consideration the town as a whole. I can always read his filter and previous games if the situation is Dire. I'm not liking how you aren't taking a stance, though. Here you outline this strategy: On November 21 2012 16:18 phagga wrote: I will pick a party leader who (priority in this order): 1.) I have a town read on 2.) Is good at reading people D1 3.) has a sound plan how to choose his team 4.) Suggests/chooses team members that I agree with 1 and 2 are a must, 3 and 4 are nice to have. Saying that it's important you choose someone you have a townread on. Then, you seem a little hesistant to discuss town reads with other people, as (on a previous post you said) it makes it easier for scum to blend in. This post is an example of this: On November 21 2012 17:02 phagga wrote: EBWOP: I am aware that we have to discuss the people who want to get elected and that this will eventually lead to townreads in the thread. This is unavoidable. Nevertheless, I find it dangerous if people go around and ask for townreads from people who are not candidating and/or will probably not get elected. Also, asking for townreads when the game is not even 12 hours old is unnecessary. So what I expect from you: go around interacting with town. This is pretty much what you do, fantastic. But now, game is much past 12 hours and you have yet to tell us your opinion on who you think is town and who you will be voting. Out of nowhere, you mention kita: On November 22 2012 07:13 phagga wrote: Acrofales, if you are around, i would still like to know why you do not consider Kita a serious candidate. I'm very curious as to why you chose to comment on kita, out of all people. This seems utterly random, given your other posts. Also, you don't state opinions and you spend most of your time prodding around asking questions, but never saying anything conclusive. Explain yourself, because I can't discern in which direction you are going in order to consolidate your vote. I have not read all the posts yet, I just arrived at the point where Syllo addresses Sandro regarding unanswered questions here. I have not named a candidate yet because I do not have a clear town read on one yet. I was leaning on Sandroba the whole time, and I also tend to think that Syllo is town. However, I only have a very rough idea on how these guys play scum, and I don't trust them enough yet. Also I don't like it at all that they are almost uncontested. As someone said earlier, mafia should have an interest at getting this spot too, and somehow I would expect some heavier resistance. Unless Sand and Syllo are both scum, of course, but Orcams Razor probably says no. Kita was always in the back of my head because I liked his opening post. I was aware that he went MIA for a while, but I still thought that his candidature was serious. So when I realized that barely anyone talked about him, I thought I'd use Acros post to see if I could get some info on what people thought about him. Also, as I wrote earlier, I do think more competition is needed, and since Toad is out of the race, that leaves Kita as the most promising competitor to Sandro/Syllo. Regarding his proposed team: Dieno has claimed after I talked about the possibility to be 3rd party, and the way is behaving I think I could meanwhile accept him in the party, although there are other players that I would prefer. Prom is the one I feel really unsure about. I hope Kita thinks that one over. Nevertheless, for the time being, he gets my vote. ##Vote Kitaman Goodkarmas candidature comes surprising, and I first liked his approach for the candidature. However, I voiced my suspicion of him yesterday, and his choice of Sandro for the team looks like a joke, as you can see in my questions to him. I will be very busy today. I should be in the thread for sure in the last 2-3 hours before deadline. Hopefully I will be able to interact some more earlier. | ||
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On November 22 2012 18:55 Djodref wrote: @ Phagga Does it look like Oats and me are scum ? No, I got you null, Oats leaning slightly townie. However, I don't expect scum to fill their team with mafia, that would be too obvious. A second scum might be there, but not 3 or 4. | ||
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On November 23 2012 00:38 Dienosore wrote: I hope I haven't committed suicide with this post :X Alright, guys. I've been doing a lot of watching these past 30~ pages or so. I've come up with this aggregate system that isn't based around calling people towny or scum, but rather personal interactions. Using my extraordinary abilities to decipher what people mean rather than what they say, I've drawn out what I think is turning out to be a very interesting relationship map, and here it is: ![[image loading]](http://i45.tinypic.com/22mao4.jpg) The wiggly lines show hate/distrust, while the straight lines show some sort of companionship. There are a few other types of lines in there that represent different things, but I don't really feel like going into depth about every little mark. From this, I am able to extrapolate what I see into a larger picture. The only things that really set off flags for me are these: - Djodref and Goodkarma coming up as strong scumreads. - Kitaman drawing a lot of attention for little reason - CaveJohnson coming up as scummy. - Iamperfection being indicated in secret relationships with SnB and CaveJohnson. I've also spotted some sort of mysterious link between Promethelax/Kushm4sta, Promethelax/Kitaman, and Risk.Nuke/Promethelax. I find it hard to think townies would be forming these sort of clandestine connections this early in the game, though it does not necessarily make them scum. There is always the possibility of a third party out there. Right now, I havn't really made any clear towny reads using this map other than Syllo. Sandroba was clear town for me until Syllo raised some suspicion with his >50% remark. Another flag is the sudden surge of support for Kitaman27 from people who I've dubbed as suspicious. What's also interesting is who is not on the map. BioSC caught a bit of negative attention from Iamperfection early on, then sort of disappeared. Not sure what this means. Alright that's all I have for now. Looking through all my info, it's pretty clear that I'm not going to be first leader, and that's fine with me. I just hope I get in the party and survive the night. Please elaborate the bolded points. What exactly is it that makes them strong scumread/scummy? | ||
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On November 23 2012 00:44 Adam4167 wrote: I like how syllogism is thinking. ##vote syllogism Can you please elaborate a bit more what it is exactly that you like? | ||
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On November 23 2012 00:55 marvellosity wrote: I might as well say now, I do plan on running for party leader in the coming days if I'm around to do so. I thought you were lazy, why the change of heart? | ||
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On November 23 2012 01:02 marvellosity wrote: because now i feel i want to, whereas before i didn't. no particular reason other than i'm feeling it more. And why are the following quoted points no longer an issue for you? Marv once wrote: Plus I don't feel very at home in themed setups like this. There are going to be some differences in how scum/town players act compared to normal setups, and I don't know what they are yet. There are a few players in this game who I hold in extremely high regard (I think are better than me) and in that situation I feel somewhat insecure. If those players weren't in the game I'm pretty sure I would be standing for party leader because I'd think I knew best out of everyone playing, but I don't think that in this game. Do you think now that you know best of everyone playing? If so, why don't you run for leadership today? | ||
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On November 23 2012 01:06 Dienosore wrote: I identified them as mafia very early in the game. Since then, I've been evaluating their interactions with everyone, and they seem to always come up negatively. I can only assume scum because why would a towny act this way? Why else would they garner so much distrust and hate from everyone except for the people I've flagged as possible scum too? I realize there isn't much tangible evidence... however, if you put enough toothpicks together, eventually you will have a house. What exactly made you identify them as mafia early in the game? Which actions of them were scum-motivated? | ||
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On November 23 2012 01:13 marvellosity wrote: I'm not suddenly going to think I'm better than everyone else when I didn't before, no  But I feel quite integrated into this game by now and this helps a lot with how I feel vis-a-vis running for party leader.sandroba has question marks over his head by syllo. kitaman has done nothing to make me think he's town, plus i disagree with a few of his reads. Doesn't make him scum necessarily, but I don't trust him. syllo would as it stands get my vote next cycle too, but it might be best if power isn't that concentrated. This does not make any sense. If (for example) Syllo and his party are successfull and live through the night, why should we not vote him next cycle? I agree that generally it is good when power is distributed over town, but I don't see what the issue is with revoting a successfull leader. | ||
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On November 23 2012 01:29 marvellosity wrote: I just wanna be party leader, ok? It's not something that I had to explain to myself in my head so explaining it in text is meh. Your hunger for power is not a sufficient reason for me to vote you. Au contraire, it makes me wary of your motives. | ||
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On November 23 2012 01:38 marvellosity wrote: Good job I'm not running right now then, eh? :D Don't worry dear, I won't forget to remember the others of this tomorrow.  | ||
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@CaveJohnson I'm confused, are you Drazerk and your role name is The Chef or is your role name Drazerk? | ||
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On November 23 2012 02:58 CaveJohnson wrote: Read the OP and maybe you will find I did as for why 4 is low we have already had several claims in thread mine isn't the lowest but I'm not giving up near immortality for it. I cannot remember anyone ever claiming is success modifier. | ||
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On November 23 2012 03:01 CaveJohnson wrote: I've seen 3s flying around I can't remember who actually said them but there have been claims *sigh* That was this post and he did not say his modifier is 3. Read it. Carefully. | ||
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So you claim to have a role that does not fit into the Chrono Trigger lore? Why did you feel the need to claim your role? Would it not have been enough to just claim your real identity? | ||
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On November 23 2012 04:15 syllogism wrote: The only way me providing information regarding my picks gives you more information is if mafia decides to fight harder against my election due to my team being all town. I don't find it particularly likely that mafia would have behaved any differently today, unless perhaps if I had revealed my team much earlier. Revealing the team right now or even a few hours ago would have achieved nothing as I've been pretty much inevitable for longer than that. The reasons against disclosing the team, however, still stand. You don't need more information about me than can be found by reading my posts. I'm town and whether town reached the correct conclusion based on blind faith or deduction isn't relevant. The problem is that we cannot hold you accountable. You might very well take a scum on your team and fail the mission on purpose. I guess it boils down to that town is giving up a lot of control over the first event if they don't know who you want to take with you. You are claiming all power over the first team. | ||
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On November 23 2012 04:32 Acrofales wrote: Do you believe he's town? If you do, why do you think he would take scum along on purpose? All that really matters here is whether syllo is town or scum (or 3rd party). Sorry, that was written in a hurry. Reading it now it seems unclear how i meant it. I was talking hypothetically. I just wanted to line out why people might be against his handling of the party selection.. I lean town on Syllo. I am currently considering switching my vote to Syllo from Kita, not sure about it though. I will elaborate on that more, but I have work to do right now. | ||
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On November 23 2012 06:38 Clarity_nl wrote: Zbo, why the silent vote on Sand? I was wondering about that too. | ||
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Kita, are you still running with the same team? Or is it possible you'll switch someone out? Now, I finally need to drive home, it's almost 11pm and I'm still at work. I ought to be home in about 30 minutes, will therefore be online again before deadline if nothing crazy happens. | ||
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On November 23 2012 07:53 Hopeless1der wrote: ##Unvote: Syllogism ##Vote: Hopeless1der Things and such. What do you hope to achieve? What is your reasoning for this? | ||
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Alas, I am leaning slightly town on Kita, but feel better with Syllo. I have a stronger townread on him. I trust him to make good townreads for picking people. Therefore, my vote goes to Syllo. ##Unvote ##Vote Syllogism | ||
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On November 23 2012 07:56 Hopeless1der wrote: I honestly don't know, but I don't see a 10 point swing coming, so I feel safe doing this for the sake of seeing if things happen as a result Does your vote have an influence on your role? | ||
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On November 23 2012 11:10 Dienosore wrote: First of all, I'd like to congratulate the town for passing our first event! I believe my presence weighted heavily on our success rate, seeing as this was my era, so hats off to Syllo for having enough wisdom to bring me along. I believe I have been marked for death by the scumlords (I took 445 dmg during the night). I'm not dead yet, but I'm trapped in a corner and my back is against the wall. I feel my only option now is to come completely clean, tell my story, and hopefully set up the groundworks for a towny victory: As soon as I got my PM saying I was Frog, I realized I would be in an early position of influence. Originally I wanted to be leader, since I thought it might give our group some sort of extra powers. This was the reason I was very forward and pushy about getting leadership. I was completely ignored (and rightfully so, now that I look back at it). So, I started playing for the second best thing: a spot in the group. In order to do this, I decided to roleclaim. I believe this was the only sure-fire way I could get into the group, so I went ahead and took the chance. I knew the target I painted on myself was huge, but I felt as if I had enough HP to at least survive the night. (I loled quietly to myself when someone said Lagos had 999 hp) I also wanted to draw the fire away from helpless townys who I believed might only have 50 hp. Also, since I knew I was going to be taking a TON of heat anyway, I started making hard scumreads and openly confronting the accused. I hoped to use my very public position to hopefully shine the light on scum, where others might have been more reserved in their cases. Well, I must have rattled some cages, because I ended up taking a fuckload of dmg. I do not want to give out my max HP, but lets just say another hit like that would cripple me. If you have any protection or healing powers, please help out your friendly town frog! <3 Additionally, I want to use this opportunity to provide myself as a safe contact. If you want to organize some sort of town circle, please get in touch with me somehow. I know PM's aren't allowed in this game, so we will have to figure out some other way to communicate outside of the thread. I know there is always the chance of a Mafia infiltration, so I will be EXTRAORDINARILY critical of anyone who expresses interest in grouping up. The Mafia has already organized, and has probably been following a plan for a full cycle now. We cannot wait any longer. Thanks~ regarding the bolded, it might very well be that you were just hit with a shitton of damage because you claimed a potentially very powerfull role. just saying. Also, you are really cute. It's refreshing to read your posts, although I don't always agree with everything in it. | ||
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However, my list is not up to date. I will try to go through several filters and update it, so I might make a more definite vote before Kita has to make his prediction. People who are also red in my list: - Goodkarma, although I REALLY have to go through his filter now. Have not done that yet. - BioSC, lurking hardcore although he was very excited pregame, as someone mentioned Other people I want to look into/know more about: - Sandroba, I read his filter yesterday. I want to hear more from him and what he says about the current accusations - Hopeless1der, I have "looks shady, check filter" note on him, but I don't know why anymore. Will clear this up. ##Vote CaveJohnson | ||
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On November 23 2012 18:14 CaveJohnson wrote: People who vote for me don't want to vote for scum - It happens every game just see what you can get from the lynch information afterwards - I'm out for a few hours toodaloo. Show me that you're town. Hunt some scum. I'll gladly take my vote of you when I see that you are actually trying to help town. | ||
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When you look through his filter, literally the first half of it he almost only talks about what town should do, what people should do (with the one exception of his very first ingame post). There is a ton of stuff that just does not bring town anywhere. He looks like he is contributing, but nothing is really helping town. Also, the tone of his posts seems so neutral, as if he was emotionally completely detached. This is probably what others described as "constructed", for me it is just strange because it seems he does not care at all. The best example for this is this post: On November 22 2012 00:01 goodkarma wrote: I found this particular quote to be upsetting. I understand, on the one hand, if you have a town read on syllo. But I don't understand why you would be willing to go so far as to allow him to veto your picks. If you're not that confident in your choices, you should as well just have him pick for you... Or better yet, let him be party leader. As current "frontrunner" I would like a response from you on this scandal. Are you looking to concede and have syllo run in your stead, or was this merely an assertion that you are super-confident syllo is town? He says he is upset, and calls it a scandal, which means it must have pissed him off. Bbut the tone of the post does not feel this way, it rather sounds as if he actually does not care. Then, this post is an improvement. I actually liked that post from him, even if it was a bit long and overexplaining. But then he posted that he would have Sandroba on his team, and I was really confused by that. Afterwards, it seems back to the old ways for him. When I look at his posts from today, it is mostly defending himself, a vote and post to sandroba, that's it. Tl;dr: Too much fluff, a single scum read on the Bus of the day, looks emotionally detached. Now, it is possible that this is his normal way of playing/writing, I am not familiar with his meta. However, for the above reasons, Goodkarma stands on the scummy side for me. Goodkarma: I see you have voted Sandroba. Can you name me up to three other people you also find suspicious, and why? I don't need a whole case, a short explanation what you think is scum motivated in their play would suffice. | ||
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On November 24 2012 03:05 Z-BosoN wrote: Wtf... I had you marked as townie, but this post right here just killed that. So just like that you agreed your post was stupid? Did you put any amount of thought into your plan, to be so easily convinced? Also, from a townie perspective, you'd want to choose a plan that was most similar to yours, no? And really, just look at point number 1). IN NO WAY is that the complete opposite of what syllo suggested: It's clear that he is also not revealing his town reads. You now say you play for nearly a year, which makes your plan even more wtf. One year is nowhere close to being a newbie, which was why I had you as town. You have some real explaining to do, this post here stinks. I am completely confused by the bolded part. Number 1.) talks about him not givin townreads in general, which has nothing to do with his plan or syllo. His plan was to chose 3 people who would then chose the 3 people for the party. The 3 people he choses may very well be town, as he indicates for example here, and since he has to publicly call them out for them to make their picks, that would be him revealing his town reads. | ||
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On November 24 2012 03:52 Z-BosoN wrote: Phagga, I think you are missing the post he's responding to: + Show Spoiler + On November 24 2012 02:45 Acrofales wrote: Yes... and my million dollar question is how someone who is apparently fairly experienced in mafia could not see that this plan was bad. The main problem is that the rest of your play has been fairly standard. You're not ranting like a maniac, like Risen or Bluelightz, and you're not derping it up with crazy logic like BM. Which means you *should* have been able to see how bad that plan was. And that is what's bugging me. Because if you knew how bad the plan was, then there is no town motivation for posting it. And that's why I want to know your identity. If you are prone to derps like thinking that that plan was good, then you might be town, but otherwise I can only see scum motivations for posting that. Now, lets move on to the other stuff Djodref pointed out: explain your vote for Syllo. Acrofales asked him to explain his vote on syllo. So I come reading his post expecting an answer to that. And the FIRST think he said is he doesn't believe in giving out town reads. To me that's a straight reference to supporting syllo, because syllo was also against giving out the town members he was gonna choose. I don't think he's referring to "town reads in general", because that makes no fucking sense to what acrofales had just asked him. On November 24 2012 03:21 phagga wrote: I am completely confused by the bolded part. Number 1.) talks about him not givin townreads in general, which has nothing to do with his plan or syllo. His plan was to chose 3 people who would then chose the 3 people for the party. The 3 people he choses may very well be town, as he indicates for example here, and since he has to publicly call them out for them to make their picks, that would be him revealing his town reads. Are you buying this then? Oh well, my read was wrong, ergo I'm gonna go the complete opposite. I mean just look at these posts: On November 21 2012 12:47 TheChronicler wrote: Again, what if the leader is scum.... On November 21 2012 12:56 TheChronicler wrote: I figured I'd add in a system that got us as much information as possible. I never expected to be elected since I'm on a smurf, but I really wanted my idea to be used because I think there's a good enough chance we don't get a townie elected (I've lynched enough townies d1 not to be overly confident in my d1 reads) On November 21 2012 12:46 TheChronicler wrote: So... what if the leader is scum and we do it your guys' way? I even said if I'm not elected I want the person elected to use my way of doing it. I think we have better odds if we spread the party choice amongst more people than if we have it rest with a single person. Does this look like someone who thinks weakly of his idea, do you honestly think that when reading this? Does this come to you as "a vet who thinks weakly of his own plan?" Definitely no. He completely 180's on it, as if he was insecure all along, and goes ahead and votes syllo without much explanation. If he had genuinely thought that which he just said (i.e that he was gonna 180 on his thinking and vote for the complete opposite), why the hell didn't he say so when voting for syllo: On November 22 2012 03:42 TheChronicler wrote: I'm going to place my vote on syllo. Cave seems to be pushing syllo as someone who can't be elected because he's "taken himself out" when he's a very viable candidate. I'm driving to California, and won't be back in the thread for a good 12 hours. I will try to keep up with the thread on my phone, though. Just don't expect your questions to be answered until I get to my parents' place tonight. I don't know. I'd expect this from someone completely new and trying to figure shit out. He says he's played for a year and this just kills it for me. He's not making any sense and his tone when proposing his plan was definitely not that of insecurity. Until marv or syllo, who had townreads on him explain how the hell is his explanation of things "townie" at all. Newbie card cannot be used anymore and his latest explanation on syllo just stinks. ##Vote TheChronicle Ok, for me, this post: On November 24 2012 02:50 TheChronicler wrote: On the phone in a theater lol, but I'll answer what I can. 1) I think I said this, but I don't believe in ever giving town reads because that just says to scum "shoot these people" 2) I've played forum mafia for about a year now, maybe a little longer. 3) Syllo chose a path almost completely opposite to mine. If mine was stupid, his must have been the correct choice. Why would you need to tell other people your choices if you're the one who's taking full responsibility. 4) There was one goal, to see who did what. With the revised plan we got to see justification for six total choices. With sylo's we have gotten his picks and "these were my town reads". Awesome. Thankfully we won, but what if we had lost? 5) I need you to reference the certain reads post. I remember it but not the context. IIRC I was talking about people potentially being able to use sandro's flip. Was an Answer to this post: On November 24 2012 02:39 Djodref wrote: Are you going to be here for a while ? I would appreciate you to address my case and answer my questions and stuff ^^ 1. I would like you to explain me why iamp should not have stated that Dieno was a town read 2. I would like you to tell me about your experience on playing mafia on forums. 3. I would really appreciate you to explain me how you could vote for syllo with his platform. 4. And I think we also have to discuss about the real goal of your plan. I also want to know what was the "information" you were talking about and how town could have used it. 5. What the fuck were the "certain reads" ? Also, he did make general statements regarding not giving out town reads like these: On November 21 2012 14:12 TheChronicler wrote: Is there a reason everyone feels the need to shout their town reads this game? On November 21 2012 14:12 TheChronicler wrote: It's anti-town to give scum information they can use. You just told scum your town read (assuming you're town). Now scum will value killing your town read higher than they would have. Way to go. That's why I got confused. However, seeing Acrofales post later on makes it more clear where the contradiction is: With is plan, not only would he give out town reads (which is acceptable since he has to make a party of four), but his picks will put out town reads as well, and that should be something he would want to avoid if he seems so keen on keeping the amount of townreads low. Tl;dr, I understand now. | ||
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Weekend is ahead, which means family time. My activity will be rather limited (or even more limited, when I look back at the last 12 hours), but I should be able to tune in again before the deadline. For now, I am content with my vote on CaveJohnson. | ||
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My vote is currently on CaveJohnson. | ||
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On November 25 2012 07:04 goodkarma wrote: CaveJohnson has ZERO chance of getting lynched right now... You're not doing us any favors by not weighing in on the two main candidates... If you were to choose between Toad and Sandroba, who would it be and why? Still stuck on page 114, I'd say it's Sandro, mainly because of the arguments syllo brought forth => I'd sheep syllo. I'm pretty null on toad at the moment, might change when I catch up. | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote Sandroba | ||
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On November 25 2012 20:51 Oatsmaster wrote: I had the best white meat turkey EVER. It was so fucking good :D. So full..... Also yeah, Prome sounds extremely powerful, I/E not town but that is one of the worst reasoning for lynching someone. Its like a single nail when you need the coffin I have not completely caught up yet, but wanted to comment on this. Know that you are in a Greymist game. There, town roles like Yugi Moto, Link or Kanti, Lord of the Black Flames appear. The latter one was responsible for 6 kills alone in that game. So, no, no role is too powerfull to be town in a game like this. | ||
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On November 26 2012 00:19 risk.nuke wrote: Why am I like a ghost in these games. Even when I run for leader I am mostly ignored. I actually missed your post saying that you run for leader when reading throught the thread. Perhaps highlight it more next time? Nevertheless, you will not get my vote. | ||
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##Vote Oatsmaster | ||
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On November 26 2012 07:00 Clarity_nl wrote: Phagga's day 2 and 3 have been rather lackluster, his disappearance just now is not encouraging. Also where the hell is Hapa? He's doing that thing he did in mario again (although the scum QT showed he actually was just busy so.... eh) I am always low on activity on weekends. you can check that in every game, it even says so in my profile. I did not disappear, i was doing laundry in between. I'm in the process of updating my notepad list, right now it says Goodkarma is scum. Kita is someone I want to look more into it, as is risk.nuke and iamperfection (on the latter two I don't really have any kind of read atm.) I don't like the amount of speculation djodref has put forward today as well as his attempt to become party leader. I will look into that. | ||
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On November 25 2012 10:21 marvellosity wrote: I'd like to hear who everyone in the previous party wants to take with them. I don't trust any of your reads like I trust syllo's ;p Otherwise I'm open to being party leader, I would take 2 of the previous party with me plus some other awesome townie dude. Do you still think you would be a good choice as party leader? If so, why are you not pushing it harder? | ||
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also, the way he acts D3 seems more pro-town than on the first day. All in all, I put GK on null for the moment. | ||
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On November 26 2012 07:29 Promethelax wrote: he tried to get us to consolidate on one of two scum players and you are null on him? I'm confused. Why? Scum would benefit in this situation when the thread derails/new candidates are brought forths, so I don't see the scum motivation in doing what GK did. | ||
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On November 26 2012 07:34 Z-BosoN wrote: You are saying that you expected scum to go ahead and try to sway the lynch of another scum with 10+ on them? Nah, I'm pretty sure scum bussed sand hardcore. Well, now that you mention it, it could be a bus, but I see it as very unlikely. There is a difference between bussing and activily trying to get people to consolidate. @Prom It's because I'm paranoid and very cautions with townreads. | ||
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On November 26 2012 07:46 Z-BosoN wrote: sand had simply too many votes on him not to be a bus. Note, for example, that toad voted for sand. I'll keep it in mind. However, GK was the fourth to vote Sand and later tried to get people to vote either Sand or Toad. So, no, I still don't think he was scum bussing. Yeah, well, you make me really doubt this shit now. I need to think about it. | ||
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On November 26 2012 08:09 marvellosity wrote: 9 was at 20:00 forum time for me (or at least, it was said it was supposed to be then) it's now 08:00 forum time. ?? yes, same here. it was 12 hours from 9 to 8. | ||
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On November 26 2012 08:12 marvellosity wrote: naw i think it was just because daypost or whatever you want to call it was late. does not work. Day 3 post was at 9.30, but should have been at 09.00 that makes 11 hours for the first circle, 12 for the next. However, IF countdown should have started with the deadline (because it's part of a player ability), we would get the 12 hours. alas, it's all speculatoin, let's wait for 7, then we will know more. | ||
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On November 26 2012 08:23 Z-BosoN wrote: We got our lynch and shit, but I really think we should focus on other reads. I disagree with you that he's town because of his posts alone, as I've stated he has shown quite some mafia mentality. Also, do you think sand was bussed?? Phagga and I seem to disagree on this. Wait, I'm not saying Sand was not bussed generally, I just said I doubt that GK was scum bussing Sand. | ||
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On November 26 2012 08:26 marvellosity wrote: why specifically GK? why couldn't he be bussing but others could? i feel like i'm missing something here Just read the following... On November 26 2012 07:51 phagga wrote: I'll keep it in mind. However, GK was the fourth to vote Sand and later tried to get people to vote either Sand or Toad. So, no, I still don't think he was scum bussing. Yeah, well, you make me really doubt this shit now. I need to think about it. tl;dr, i said I doubt GK is scum partially because of his behaviiour before the D2 lynch, z-boson says it could have been a buss, we disagree a bit. | ||
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On November 26 2012 23:34 syllogism wrote: I've very strong reasons for considering Prom mafia, so how about directing your damage that way. Also you are just plain wrong in saying that whether his role seems ridiculous or not is irrelevant, just like you were yesterday when you were telling everyone how wrong they were about sandroba. If you are town, how about not arguing against me every single day Syllo, I've written before about greymists Aperture game where several powerfull town Roles existed. I therefore do not think that power of a role is alignement indicative. You also might want to consider that we may face several scum factions and or 3rd parties, which could balance out strong power roles. I am aware that your case is not only based on this point, i just wanted to point this out. | ||
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On November 27 2012 01:53 Adam4167 wrote: If Toad was off the cards for tomorrow, my next scum candidate would be Z-Boson. His case on me was all over the place, which OK, I can understand maybe there was a misunderstanding. But his case on S&B is just non-existent. The entire proof, his first paragraph: is that no one could have a strong town read on marv. Then he goes on to talk about Marv. Nothing in this paragraph is even about S&B and why he is likely scum. In the second paragraph "SnB's filter though seems pretty much like his town filter from last game", so Z-BosoN has a meta town read on S&B, yet here this case is anyway, pinning him as scum with no logical reasons to support this suspicion. It feels fabricated and fake, trying to create something out of nothing. The rest of his filter consists of pushing sandroba's candidacy on the basis of 'its easy to tell his town play and scum play apart', yet says multiple times he is unfamiliar with sandrobas' meta. Some more of his posts just read as summaries of what is already happening in the game: link link2 This is who I would lynch if Toad was not an option. Z-boson more than once made accusations based on missrepresented facts. One was his attack on you (Adam), another example is this Post where he attacks theChronicler. I talked to him about it and he answered with this and this. Then there is this: On November 24 2012 14:48 Z-BosoN wrote: 1) Except I didn't mention a contradiction. I just can't fathom what sort of "reads" you are gonna use if not town reads. refer to point no. 2. although he wrote earlier: On November 24 2012 05:22 Z-BosoN wrote: Really, no contradiction? At all? he than backs out of it saying: On November 25 2012 06:52 Z-BosoN wrote: 1) I assumed the contradiction you were referring to was the two-line post you were responding to, not acro's post. Also, when we were discussing if GK bussed Sandro or not, he asks this question to marv: On November 26 2012 08:23 Z-BosoN wrote: Also, do you think sand was bussed?? Phagga and I seem to disagree on this. Which is again extremely poorly worded, because I never said that Sandro was generally not bussed. So, in short, there are many situations where z-boson claimed something or used ambiguous wording and then had to backtrack because of a misunderstanding. The question is, does that mean anything? could it be scum motivated? Z-boson, what do you say about this? | ||
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On November 27 2012 06:57 Mementoss wrote: Vote Count Syllogism (0): Keirathi (0): Marvellosity (0): Dienosore (2): kitaman27, Oatsmaster (17): goodkarma, Hopeless1der, Acrofales, iamperfection, Dienosore, Clarity_nl, phagga, Keirathi, Z-BosoN, marvellosity,Hapahauli, syllogism, djodref, risk.nuke, Adam4167, Oatsmaster, CaveJohnson, stronandbig Toadesstern (1): Let me know if there are any mistakes asap I count 18 People on Oatsmaster | ||
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On November 27 2012 07:06 Clarity_nl wrote: This is ridiculous. I can only imagine how much effort went into creating and hosting this game and some people just don't give a shit. I completely agree. Specially after some people seemed so excited pregame, I wonder what happened to that. | ||
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On November 27 2012 09:10 Hopeless1der wrote: We can vote syllo if I'm not mistaken. Also, I took 75 damage (not self-inflicted) Yeah, you're right. The Daypost specifies that we cannot take the last party leader with us, which was Oats. I'm off to bed. | ||
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Hopeless behaviour about him wanting to be in the party this day looks really scum motivated. If he knows himself that people doubt his townieness, there is no reason for him to be wanting in the party as town. I feel unsure about Djo being on the party. He has been shown erratic behaviour and speculation that was useless. I'd rather not have him in the party. I look forward to hear from z-boson again. | ||
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On November 28 2012 02:24 Hopeless1der wrote: I disagree that my behavior looks strictly scum motivated, there are town motives as well: Townies want to be on the party. I see it as a way to clear my name so that people stop discussing me as a lynch candidate because I know that it is likely to end in my death. While the discussion will hopefully be helpful in finding scum after I flip, it comes at the cost of a townie. Depending on our lynch availability we can't afford to be wasting it on me and I want to find a way to confirm or deny the accusation against me. Being selected to be on the event party is an opportunity to do so. But you do understand that town will not want the risk to take you along, right? I mean, it must be obvious that if town generally sees you as null/scum, then you will not be taken along. Therefore coming forward and saying that you need to be with the party to prove you're town is nonsensical. However, realising that you have been figured out as scum and martyring by failing an event for town seems quite a reasonable idea. Finally, you want to prove you are town? Why don't you show interest in the game? (and with this I mean generally, not only when you are accused of being scum). Why don't you try to find the scum amidst us? Acro just did you a favor by claiming third party, as it means you can actually be town without theChronicler lying. However, you can also still be scum. It's up to you to prove to us now that your town through your behaviour. | ||
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On November 28 2012 06:37 goodkarma wrote: So you're saying you don't trust your own reads, and consider scum (who you've gone to no lengths to spot) are automatically a non-threat? Please play some newbie games after you're done here, so a coach can teach you how to play... As for electing you leader I've been thinking that having a heavily HP-damaged town get a item would make him a strong mafia target, and by electing you we'd lose the item and a "confirmed town." But then I remembered that there are several "confirmed town" 10X more useful than you. It won't be an easy decision for scum to kill you, and I actually would rather have you die than them. To that end anything that could make you a stronger target than someone such as Syllo or Keir is something I'm completely for. ##Unvote ##Vote: Deino However incompetent I think you are, I also have a town read on TC, and am confident that the party you've proposed will succeed. You have some nerve. I have not seen a single case of you this game, your filter is almost completely devoid of any scumhunting, and you go and lecture dieno on how to play? Dieno achieved something in this game that you have not yet done, he has established himself as town. That is already worth a lot for town. You may not agree with his methods of doing it, but he was one of the fastest established townies in this game. But you come in the thread regularly and have nothing better to do than to mock him. Do you think this is creating the kind of town atmosphere we need to win this game? What is the benefit for town of you calling him incompetent, bad and mocking his playstile? I don't see one. On November 28 2012 08:51 goodkarma wrote: I'll make a definitive case on you yet today. Just don't lurk too hard in the meantime. Ah, finally you make a case! On November 28 2012 09:57 goodkarma wrote: My strongandbig read was in fact in large part due to activity, in addition to the incomplete cases / reads he was bringing up. I was unaware, however, of the severe lack of internet he was experiencing, and will back off of him for now... In its place I provide a mafia (the game) favorite, a scum suspect shortlist: 1) Iamp - I have a good "gut feel" about this guy I guess you could say. But he still has yet to contribute anything meaningful, which earns him a spot here. Would be willing to give him more time to see if his roleclaim checks out. 2) VE - Shoot him dead. I actually think he might be more likely to be town than scum given his enthusiasm for playing scum. But if an elimination-based approach for finding scum is to work, he has to go. He has not posted enough to make a meaningful read... 3) phagga - Need to reread his filter at some point (but not something I'm focusing on today). He has been pro-town in his contributions, but I can't help but feel he is also "playing it safe" and doing what he can to fly under the radar... 4) Adam - lurker who might need to be shot too. 5) Kita - I'm inclined to believe Marv's read of 3rd party 6) Cave - This guy won't be figured out without getting vigi killed. Shoot first, ask questions later... 7) Z-boson - From my experience with him, he likes to play pretty safe as scum, whereas as town he is rather reckless to the point of being pretty easy to mislynch. He definitely is making his own reads and contributing to thread, but all his reads I would call "safe" ones in that he is targeting almost exclusively lurkers... Null read atm, even after looking into filter. 8) Prox - Tbh I don't know what to do with him. Syllo's input is definitely appreciated, but I don't see him as a strong scum read (closer to null...). 9) Strong - I had a strong scum read based both off meta and on filter. However, with meta differences explained, I'm inclined to give him more of a chance to establish himself as town before coming to conclusions. 10) Toad - Scum 11) Hopeless (maybe) - clearly anti-town, but I'm still not convinced that he's scum. Would even go so far as to say slight town read... Oh noes, you couldn't be arsed to make a case, instead you throw out this worthless list where you throw some dirt around with barely any explanation. On November 28 2012 10:25 goodkarma wrote: Correction: I'm a good town player when I don't drink while playing. I'm going to take a break from thread, and play damage control tomorrow. Like I care. If you are too drunk to play, don't play. If you play, I don't care about your state, i will hold you responsible for your actions. | ||
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On November 28 2012 22:39 Acrofales wrote: + Show Spoiler [exercise in futility] + Timestamps: 10:05 20:00 +10 / 595 07:59 +12 / 719 +2 / +124 21:52 +14 / 833 +2 / +114 09:06 +11 / 674 -3 / - 159 23:54 +15 / 888 +4 / +214 09:11 +09 / 557 -6 / -331 21:38 +13 / 747 +4 / -190 Given the timestamps, the difference between them and the difference of differences. Alphabet? Assuming 0 = A? K:F U:A H:H V:A J:G X:C J:L V:M This is complete jibberish and is jibberish under any rotational encryption as well. Interpreting as numbers I also don't see anyting useful 1005 2000 + 995 759 - 1241 - 2236 2152 +1393 +2634 906 - 1246 - 2639 2354 +1448 +2694 911 - 1443 - 2891 2138 +1227 +2670 I tried analyzing them in a number of different ways and I see no pattern or hidden message. That leads me to conclude that it's one of three things: 1. I am too dumb to decypher this shit, 2. they are simply roughly every 12 hours, depending on when the hosts have time and they are too lazy to tell us that they should be every 12 hours since the Day 2 action deadline, or 3. this has to be something to do with someone's role. Given that nobody has claimed any knowledge of these numbers, I suspect scum or another 3rd party. I don't like calling myself dumb, so my intuition says either 2 or 3. Maybe it's the impact of Lavos? In the game you don't actually fight Lavos when he crashes into the planet in prehistory. However, that means we are skipping the entire part where we have to make Masamune and fight Magus. ##get on dactyl and fly away from Tyranno Lair I tried to type out the number in binaries (since they are all below 15, it gives you nice 4-bit-blocks) and see if a usefull ip address returns. I got 172.235.249.X (last digit still unknown), but 172.235.249.0/24 is not in use as far as I can see on ARIN (it says holder and contact unknown). Will try again when the next interval is out, but I doubt this is the way to go. I also checked the ascii table for hex or decimal values, no luck. Perhaps the difference has to be seen as hex numbers, which gives you the following decimals: 0x10 => 16 decimal 0x12 => 18 decimal 0x14 => 20 decimal 0x11 => 17 decimal 0x15 => 21 decimal 0x09 => 09 decimal 0x13 => 19 decimal that does not really tell me anything either. Finally, I expect the next countdown number either after 8 or after 16 hours. So far we had every intervall from 9 to 15 hours, so I suppose the next one is gonna be after 8 or 16 hours. | ||
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On November 28 2012 22:23 strongandbig wrote: Now, phagga I have a couple of questions for you: 1. As far as I can tell, you changed your mind on your scumread on goodkarma because of the timing of his vote on Sandroba. Could you update that read for us? Given that Sandroba never really responded to Syllo's case or made a real effort to not get himself lynched, I'm hesitant to draw any conclusions from who voted for him when. It's definitely possible that his teammates knew he wasn't going to try very hard, and started bussing him very early. So if you ignore gk's vote on sandro, do you still think he's town or do you want to lynch him again. 2. You said you object to hopeless being in the party. do you think he's scum? What do you think of my stuff on his behavior since the check on him and acro? 3. What is kitaman's alignment and why do you think that? 1. After his behaviour today I'm rather leaning scum on him again. Reason is that his behaviour was rather disruptive imho, and that is rather scum motivated. Also, z-boson made me rethink the whole bussing-situation, and I don't feel as sure about my conclusion from last time anymore. So, leaning scum on GK. Pre-Edit: What also really bothered me was that GK was posting this huge list with 11 people on it. That's half of the remaining player base. The problem is, people are slightly bored in this game, they try too hard to find scum and start to misinterpret situations because of confirmation bias. The want to find scum so hard that they scum where none is. Syllo actually pointed this out a few pages ago, and took this as a reason to take a break IIRC. Looking at GKs list from that point of view shows how counterproductive it is to towns interest. You don't want half of the town chasing the other half of the town. You want people trying to make proper cases of one or two other people, and show how the actions of their suspects fit a mafia agenda (or how they don't). Those cases don't have to be long, but they should have a clear focus and a proper analysis. Then others can discuss it and agree or disagree, which will lead most of the times on a reasonable result. GKs list mainly spreads distrust and is therefore counterproductive. 2. I remember going over Hopeless' filter a few days ago and setting him null on my list. Then Hope came up with this strange theorie about what if Toad flips town, followed by TC saying that Acro and Hope are of opposite alignement. Then he wanted to be part of the party to show that he is town, which was a red flag for me. Since then he is marked as scum. Regarding your post, I like the point about his sentence that he will not bring any last minute shenanigans. I mean, this is what everyone expects, why does he feel he has to announce this? seems like he is missing a townie mindest. The "Bring it, bitches" is interesting because he first takes a defensive stance in his answers to TCs case, but then tries to look aggressive with that last sentence. It does not seem authentic, but I don't think it's alignement indicative. 3. I'm running out of time I want to go through Kita's filter again, I don't like to just make comments about a person without some facts behind it. I hope to give you answer until the deadline.Which reminds me, I haven't voted yet. BRB with vote. | ||
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##Vote Dienosore | ||
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fuck. | ||
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On November 29 2012 07:44 Clarity_nl wrote: Phagga are you saying that any ability that is used on you, you can use afterwards? more or less, I don't really wanna go into too much detail. I got too excited and already said too much. | ||
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10:05 20:00 +10 / 595 07:59 +12 / 719 +2 / +124 21:52 +14 / 833 +2 / +114 09:06 +11 / 674 -3 / - 159 23:54 +15 / 888 +4 / +214 09:11 +09 / 557 -6 / -331 21:38 +13 / 747 +4 / +190 09:05 +11 / 687 -2 / -60 No idea what it means. | ||
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On November 29 2012 11:03 Clarity_nl wrote: I think before I go to bed it is fairly safe for me to say this, and this ability benefits from information so: I have a 1-shot instant ability that returns someone to the state they were in a full cycle ago. This includes health, any status effect and any abilities they had at the time. So if I were to use it on CaveJohnson he would be able to use his 1-shot again, although seeing as toad didn't die that's probably not the best idea. So I'm crowd sourcing. I don't expect to die this cycle, so what do you guys think would be the best use of my ability? =] I look forward to hearing some responses. For example: Djo is your protection ability 1shot? Night all see you tomorrow. couldn't you have used that to bring marv back to life? CaveJohnsons ability has a lot of damage potential. It might be useless on Toad, but there is other scum (GK?) that he can hit with it. It goes only back one cycle, right? Else theChronicler would also be a good candidate (give him back is gold). | ||
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Regarding Syllo, stay paranoid. I have the possibility of him being scum in the back of my head too, however small it may be (the possibility, not my head). However, it is not important right now, we have other scum to hunt, I don't really want to discuss this topic further now. @Djo, why are you so eager to get on a party? @risk On November 29 2012 15:59 risk.nuke wrote: And the reason your [tags] mess up your post is most likely because when you're doing double tags (red)(b)Example(/b)(/red) make sure the inner and outer tags on both sides is the same. Example do not do (b)(red)Example(/b)(/red). It messes up tags under some conditions. I'm glad you cleared that up because it was definately the most pressing issue in the thread. | ||
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Have you breadcrumbed your role anywhere? | ||
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Regarding Lynch: Someone mentioned this earlier already: Should we put 3-4 votes on a second person we believe to be scum (I'd propose Goodkarma)? Reason is if Toad gets pardoned or something similar, the second in the vote is also a scum read of town. If noone else has any votes, Toad can mess with us with last minute votes, or it might be randomized. Both is not in our interest. Regarding Party: We have no idea if we are in a good position or not, so let's not take any risk: The party should be from the five of Clarity, Oats, Keir, Syllo and Dieno. ##Lynch: Toadesstern ##Party Leader: Clarity_nl | ||
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On November 29 2012 22:10 strongandbig wrote: Also phagga, I'm still interested in your read on Kita. I think he's a tough player to read this game and your reasoning about him would help make me more certain about my read on you. If you just don't have time to go through his filter in depth because he's not a scum read and therefore not a priority, then I'm in no position to criticize you, but in that case I would still like a few words on what makes him a non-scumread. Looking through his filter right now, will post in the next 40 minutes. | ||
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I'll try to point out how I felt about Kita at various points, and what I took note of in his filter. So, I did like Kita in the beginning, which is obviously why I voted him. I had some misstrust on Syllo/Sandro, and kita looked like a good alternative. I was not worried that he was not very present on d1, as I remembered that he played very similarly in Aperture Mafia where he was town. So this was not alignement-indicative. I noted that he was the first to bring up name-claims, with the idea that certain characters would make better party leaders than others. + Show Spoiler + On November 21 2012 11:53 kitaman27 wrote: Something that I just thought of that we may be able to take advantage of later on are name claims. It seems unlikely that there are multiple versions of certain characters running around. For example, if we were to have a likely town character such as Lucca name claim, we could elect her as leader. This however is based on the assumption that the alignment in this game is tied to the alignment of the video game. Until this becomes clear, I wouldn't be confident in trying to abuse the setup like this. Also, we would have to worry about the mafia being given certain fake claims, but this is something that is less of a threat, considering the potential reward. We also have the option as town to enforce an additional party member selection vote. This limits the power of a single player, but it makes it easier for the mafia to sneak in one of their own in the 3rd of 4th slot. I think I'd rather put faith in the elected leader, to avoid the manipulation, assuming myself or my candidate of choice is elected. That could be scum motivated, but not necessarily. Acro replied against it, which made Kita clarify that he does not mean a mass claim. He never brought it up again, so he was not very dedicated to the idea. Pre-Edit: I just saw he did bring the idea back on d2 when he was explaining why he thought that the frog claim was so important and why he would have taken frog on the party. He then brought up two thoughts about Sandro and Marv that I shared. I felt similar about those topics, which made me trust him more. + Show Spoiler + On November 21 2012 21:42 kitaman27 wrote: There are quite a few people who claim to be voting for sandroba on the basis that they claim to be able to easily differentiate his scum play from his town play. The only reason I see this as the case is that he commonly gets lazy and stops caring or posting as mafia. However, that's simply due to personal choice. How many people here other than maybe syllo are confidant they can identify a scum sandro when he remains active? Having played with him in pypi (an election game), I know he is quite capable of fooling most people when there is something he wants. I'm quite puzzled by the fact that marv hasn't run for election. As being one of the most active players recently, I think he would be fairly confident at being able to gain support for himself. As town, I know I want to be the leader because that is the only way to directly increase our chances of success. marv however appears to want to avoid the spotlight and participate in an advising role or at least gauge the support he has. Could you explain this decision? Work time. I'll try to start identifying some town players when I get back if I'm confident enough. His Turkey-joke post was just that to me, a joke post. Specially with the following-up post I did not see any reason to take anything serious he wrote in there. The fact that he posted people who he did NOT want on his team (instead of the other way round as most others) obliged me. I had voiced my concerns about town read, and he actually took the reverse approach first. However, the party he proposed later was not really filled with people I wanted to see there, so I became unsure. However, I lack self confidence with my D1 reads, so I thought he might just know better. At some point later I switched my vote to Syllo, mainly because Kita seemed to have given up (he never answered my question regarding his team and was barely around in the thread, although he claimed that he had time now). From beginning D2 I had him als null read and wasn't following him closely anymore. What I felt strange (and what was mentioned by several people) was his behaviour around the guessing game. I would have expected him to push a target harder that he wants to have lynched so he could more reliably guess. But that did not happen, instead he was quite passive in that situation. His case on CaveJohnson was ok, the one on risk too. His case on Hopeless was a bit weak. What i realized when reading this part of his filter is that he picks only easy targets, so to say. However, again, that is not necessariliy alignement-indicative. After Nov. 25th, his activity has gone down considerably. I have the feeling that he is always taking the easy path in this game. But that's not necessarily scum. I don't see anything damning in his filter. There are situations where I get the feeling that he is really invested in the game (like most of D1), but other times it seems as if he does not care. I don't mind that he is not taking everything serious, although I do feel that if he would take the game a tiny bit more serious, people would not think he is scum. I currently doubt he is scum, but would I want him to be on the party? No, so no town read either, meaning he isNull to me. | ||
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You guys are aware that if there is a pardoner, syllo will be lynched instead of Toad. Can I interest at least 2 more people for voting Goodkarma? Then I will switch my vote to him. | ||
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On November 30 2012 02:18 risk.nuke wrote: Acro wants to kill me over confirmed scum. I see, you claimed to be pro-town third party right? Since when is GK confirmed scum? | ||
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##Unvote ##Lynch: Goodkarma ##Party leader: Keirathi | ||
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On November 30 2012 02:29 Hopeless1der wrote: What about having oats keir syllo dieno clarity perform our split votes (And only those 5)? At least can we set a fixed number for number of votes to switch in case of hidden vote shenanigans? As i indicated, I hope that more than 3 or 4 votes shouldbe enough to be on the safe side. Keir and GK have both 2 votes currently, so 1 or 2 more players should be enough IMO. | ||
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On November 30 2012 05:40 Z-BosoN wrote: Phagga - I really don't like his participation this game. His whole "oohhh you made me think whether mafia actually bussed sandroba or not!!" reads to me as: "look at me, I'm not scum and am making you think that I didn't think scum could actually bus!!", when it's pretty obvious that Sand was bussed. (Toad had what, like 6 votes? Scum are gonna ALL bus ANOTHER scum member? please...". I feel pretty strongly about him too. As I explained earlier, with the behaviour GK showed I just did not expect him to be bussing. We discussed it, I started to doubt my decision, that's it. On November 30 2012 05:40 Z-BosoN wrote: Also note the complete lack of scumhunting in his filter. First thing I could find was his justification to vote CaveJohnson, an easy target: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=92#1834 Later on says he will read into GK, and BioSC. Reads into GK, finds him scum, and doesn't do to much of pushing his reads later on. Case on GK - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=99#1965 Only time he brings back GK is muuuch later, a ton of posts in between his other post and this one: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=222#4436 so, 2300 posts later, he remembers GK is actually on his scumlist and goes after him just so no one can say he hasn't pushed his reads. I'll stress this again: He doesn't interact with GK, his top scum read for a looong time Toad was set as the next lynch-target. I had a case out there that I would happily discuss with anyone, but I saw no reason to push more at that point. On November 30 2012 05:40 Z-BosoN wrote: His pseudo-half case against me later on I view as something really easy to make (given that I've admitted making a few reading mistakes): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=189#3765 And it feels insecure and compatible with his "passiveness" he's displayed this game, which I find much more characteristic of scum. I wanted to see your reaction. I felt that the stuff I found were probably just errors that creeped in because you were not reading properly/in a hurry, but I wanted to see how you reacted to this. On November 30 2012 05:40 Z-BosoN wrote: Also has some posts where he displays light suspicion on marv, but still doesn't do much of interacting with him or pushing his reads: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=49#971 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=66#1315 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=163#3259 I view these as the same kind of "passiveness" that is characteristic of scum. Yeah, well, first thanks for cutting out half of the talk I had with marv there. Second, there was not much to push. I read a post of him, felt that it was strange and started interacting with marv without thinking much about why I thought it was strange. So in the end, marv asked some questions back and I arrived at a point where it would not make sense to push him. The last question was just a follow up, again, just see how he reacts / what he says. Sometimes people just start contradicting themself, then you follow up some more and see if you get something out. And passiveness? Seriously? I went to the people and asked them questions that interested me and that I thought were worth discussing. What is wrong with that? On November 30 2012 05:40 Z-BosoN wrote:So, basically, he's displaying some mafia tendencies, and what does it for me is his "oh wow, I didn't think scum would bus sand!" posture he's taking. Anyways, I feel kinda bad making a case on him and dipping out without letting him reply to me, but read this carefully and look at how not-so-townie his play is. Yeah, right, fuck you. Seriously, I made my post 2 days ago, waited for your reaction, and know you come in, disregard it, call me scum and then let yourself get replaced out without me having the possibility to discuss it out with you? Fuck you, I'm not gonna play with you again, ever. | ||
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On November 30 2012 06:52 Hapahauli wrote: Phagga I think this is a very typical scum-player who never sticks his neck out and tries to appear agreeable. There's nothing in his filter that makes me think that he's town. He never takes a controversial stance, he's never confrontational unless the odds are stacked on his side (i.e. tunneling GK recently)... I strongly feel that he's trying to blend in with the crowd. Please, please explain me how the odds were on my side there, because I certainly did not feel that way. Phagga's Super-Scummy Day 1: So first he agrees with Sandro's initial candidacy, but is hesitant. This is seemingly normal, but then things start to get strange. First he questions GoodKarma for some really really strange reasons. He insinuates that Sandro is townie, and therefore... GK is scummy... what? Nothing about this is coherent and it all reads as extremely forced. Wrong. I wanted to get GKs reaction. I did not have a scum read on him yet. I also did not have a town read on Sandro. It was hypothetical. That's the very reason why I worded it exactly this way: "What do you say to the following". If I thought that he was scum I would have written that completely different. And yes, I still find it strange that he likes Sandros approach to the game, that he thinks Sandro is town, but that he wants to be leader himself with sandro on his team and a different appraoch? Why should I vote him then when he said himself that Sandros approach was good? That was the confusion behind it. But perhaps more damning is that he never talks about a read on Sandroba outside of the three above quotes. Never reads him as town, scum, or anything. He's seemingly null on him, but then conjectures into association cases assuming that he's town. But then despite assuming that Sandroba is town in his analysis about "scum" GK, he votes kita: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=58#1155 I cannot make out a coherent or sane rationale here for voting Kita. He's not voting because he thinks Kita is town - he's voting because he wants "competition" and that he likes Kita's first post. He doesn't mention that kita is townie (strange... right?), and supports him despite having some serious misgivings about Promethelax. This is all pretty funny, given that he mentions he has a town read on Syllo in the same post. Why do I HAVE to mention that? It's obvious that he is at least a slight town read for me when I vote him over Syllo who I also lean town. At least I thought it would be obvious.... Also, I wrote clearly why I do not vote Syllo: I was leaning town on him, but I have no idea how he plays, so I feared in the back of my head that he might be mafia and I'm too blind to see it. Hence Kita. But finally, after all is said and done, he votes Syllo at the very end of the day to cover his tracks (when it's really clear that Syllo is going to win the election): Kita was not answering, he had seemingly given up. syllo had started to question Sandros behaviour, which increased my town read on him. Hence the switch. Phagga's "Bussing" of Sandroba Phagga's D2 filter reads as scum trying to push suspicion on easy candidates. When his cases ultimately go nowhere, he falls back and votes Sandro when it's clear that Sandro is going to get lynched. He first opens up with a completely unexplained vote on Cave Johnson: There is no analysis here. None. He votes Cave Johnson, and lists off four other names that he finds "scummy." Ok, I was about to bring all my anger at you for not reading my filter properly, because I was sure that I had a post somewhere were I wrote that I think he is scum because he said he wanted to kill the new players, regardless if they were town or not. But I can't find that post of me, which means I have obviously never written it. So, yeah, you are right, there is no explanation for that in the thread. Reason he was bright red on my side: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16981522 On November 22 2012 02:37 CaveJohnson wrote: The new and fluffy will have to die as well. We don't need complications in the end game. He then builds a nonsensical case on GoodKarma: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=99#1965 I urge you to read the above, because it's completely substanceless. There is nothing in his analysis of GK that points to a scum GK. He basically suspects GK for "emotional detachment." Not scummy behavior, not anything. Just "emotional detachment." I also wrote that he only posted fluff for the sake of contribution, but that his posts did not help town at all. Thanks for leaving that out. Then FINALLY, after it's clear that Sandro is going to get lynched: He's completely OK with lynching sandro. This is despite never following up with his reads on Cave Johnson or GoodKarma at all. No analysis. Nothing. I had no time at following up to that point. When I was finally back in the thread, GK or CaveJohnson would not get lynched. It was about Sandro or Toad at that point, and I was not convinced Toad was scum, while I could agree with a lynch on Sandro for the above mentioned points. | ||
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On November 30 2012 08:08 Hapahauli wrote: I mean really, just look at his D2 play: And even then this could be excusable... but he never mentions CaveJohnson as a scumread ever again in his filter. He's scum that forgot about one of his suspicions. In fact, the next time he metnions him, he's cooperative towards him: He improved. There was no need push him anymore on D3. Also, i was absent of the thread for most of D2 (which I announced beforehand). Regarding the last post, yes, I was pretty sure at that point that he is at least not scum. However, i was overeager when I wrote that post, I should have gone into this more cautiously, not revealing that much about me. | ||
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On November 30 2012 08:14 phagga wrote: He improved. There was no need push him anymore on D3. Also, i was absent of the thread for most of D2 (which I announced beforehand). Regarding the last post, yes, I was pretty sure at that point that he is at least not scum. However, i was overeager when I wrote that post, I should have gone into this more cautiously, not revealing that much about me. Regarding the bolded, it was specifically the conversation about acro that made me rethink my stance on it. In his filter from here on: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17025482 Also, several players stated that drazerk often plays irritating as town and scum. Many called him a coinflip. I took this into consideration. So my read changed from scum to null. | ||
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On November 30 2012 08:32 Hapahauli wrote: Oh, you imply that I hit on GK only because other people now wrote about him too? Wrong. Can I prove it? no. But in similar way I can say that you just started building a case on my after z-boson came at me.@ Phagga Regarding "Odds on your side" Your suspicions on GoodKarma ebb and flow with the general attitude on the thread. You initially find GK scummy, then when that doesn't gain any traction, you read him as null and soft defend him: Then when suspicion starts to shift on GK again, you up your rhetoric and start railing him. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=222#4436 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=225#4481 All I can say about that is that I really saw things I did not like and tried to point them out. I also think I do have some points that others did not mention. Others have written about GK too? Well, bad luck, there is a case about almost everyone in the game floating around by now, if it is about that I cannot go after anyone. ... which is also kinda comical because you seemingly forgot that you 180'd your read on GK: But that quote was posted after http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=225#4481, where I said I lean scum on GK. So what's comical about that? Regarding your Stance on Sandro I beg to differ. Your entire line of questioning against GK was under the assumption that Sandro was town. GK saw Sandro as town. If GK were scum, he would at least know that Sandro is not scum. GK wants to have sandro in his team. I don't like the reasoning of GK, I think its contradicting. I therefore make the hypothesis that if GK is scum, he takes Sandro (whom he knows not to be scum) on his team to look more townie. That's the whole story. I did not say anywhere in that post that I think that Sandro is town. Hell, i even write one paragraph earlier: " If GK thinks Sandro is so townie that you includes him in your team" (it should actually say "you" instead of "GK", but whatever). The thing is you never attempted to make a read on Sandro at all. In addition, you seemingly liked his ideas, thought he was slightly town, yet you were comfortable voting Kita despite having huge reservations about one of his party members (Promethelax). Eh, contradiction? I never attempted to make a read on Sandroba but wrote that he was slightly town? Also, I wrote why I voted kita. Because I don't know how Sandro and Syllo play, I therefore did not trust them. However, I only have a very rough idea on how these guys play scum, and I don't trust them enough yet. And yes, I wrote I liked his ideas, and I wrote in the very same paragraph that this is no reason to trust him, cause scum can come up with such good ideas as well. So what's the problem with that? Regarding your stance on Cave Johnson I find it inconceivable that you thought CaveJohnson improved so much that you all of a sudden trusted him here. You went from convinced he was scum, to not mentioning him for days, to being super-cooperative with him. Cave maintained his "trolliness" throughout. Thing is, you didn't go from scum to null - you went from scum to seemingly complete trust in his ability. I can't rationalize that from a town perspective. I read his post like 30 minutes before deadline. I saw a chance for town to get a cool ability twice instead of only once. I got overexcited, posted to open without thinking. It's 1 am here, I will answer to your posts in the next 24 hours, hopefully in about 8. | ||
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About my D2: I wrote in this post that my activity will be low the next 2 days. That was in the middle of D2. From then on, I was barely online. I came back almost 22 hours later with this post, roughly 1 hour before deadline, and had a lot to read. At least two people asked me to consolidate on Toad or Sandro, so I looked if I would feel comfortable lynching one of the two. At the same time I tried to read up on the thread. The result of having too much to read and not enough time was this Post, where I shortly explain why I voted Sandro. That 7 minutes before the deadline. If I would have had more time, I would have explained in more detail what I did not like. And just to make this absolutely clear: My activity is always low on weekends You can go and see any game of me, you will almost always find posts where I say that I will be not very active due to weekends. Most prominent example is Wheel of Fortune where I came back into the thread like 10 minutes before deadline on sunday night and had to vote (had not voted yet). And yes, this weekend my activity will also be low. About CaveJohnson: I haven't forgot about him, he was at that point no longer red in my notes, he was black (means null), which was the result of his discussion with acro as well as the constant reminder from other people that he is a coinflip and an irritating player as either alignement. I actually already mentioned all that stuff, but you seemed to have ignored it for some reason? About Syllo/Sandro/Kita: I played with Kita in Aperture Mafia, so I have an idea how he plays as town. I haven't played with syllo, and with sandro only in a game where he hydrad with Toad and was killed N1. About GK: I voiced my first suspiciouns on him on D1. I grew more and more wary of him, which resulted in the case on D2. I was then not very active over the weekend. Somewhere on D3 someone asked me about GK, and I updated my read, which lead to the discussion about bussing Sandro. After that, I felt really unsure about it. When GK came back in the thread with his personal attacks on Dieno, calling snb scum and then coming up with that list, I was pretty sure again that he was scum. Regarding his contradiction when candidating for party leader: I'm out of time, will cover that in a few hours. | ||
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On November 30 2012 22:55 Djodref wrote: No, it is definitively a scumtell, whatever the reason. Since I've been reading these forums, I've only ever saw scum players voting themselves. I did it once as town, which was game-ending in Mafias favor. Game was Wheel of Fortune. I still feel bad for it. Therefore, yes, it is a very dumb thing to do and not necessarily alignement-indicative. | ||
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On November 30 2012 09:21 Hapahauli wrote: What about GK's previous analysis was "contradictory?" He wanted someone he thought was town on his team - that's pretty straightfoward to me. Ok, let's do this right so we can hopefully close that topic. I want to put this into relation of the dialog I already had with GK at that point and how I felt about GK then. Context matters, after all. So let's start with what Goodkarma wrote here: On November 21 2012 13:06 goodkarma wrote: Who I would nominate (if not myself): As of right now, my support for a party leader (besides myself) would be sandroba. Sandroba seems to be adopting a solid strategy at present. I wholeheartedly agree with going with the most townie individuals, even if they are inexperienced. We don't know how the minigames are going to work yet, but we do know with 100% certainty that scum will count against their success. In a game where we don't lynch, all we can do is establish who is actually town. It is absolutely ridiculous to nominate people who have both strong scum and town games and are hard to read day one (thinking of Marv). I also completely agree with the suggestion that's been brought up that parties be suggested by those who are hoping to be nominated up-front. This is especially important if we are to nominate a townie who isn't as experienced. Goodkarma for President: As your leader, I will do my best to further the policy of choosing the most obvious townies as detailed above. Along those lines, I would elect to choose both sandroba and promethelax for my party. The third is still tentative, as the game has only been going for a short time. So, in this very post he says that he would support Sandro because he adopts a solid strategy. Then he proposes himself as party leader and says he would take Sandroba on his team. I found this strange, which is why I asked him: On November 21 2012 15:59 phagga wrote: You would vote Sandroba because you think his strategy is solid. His strategy involves taking less known townies on the team and no additional vets, to make it harder for scum to decide who to snipe. Your Strategy however would be to take at least one vet and a well known, albeit newer town player to your team. Why? His answer On November 21 2012 17:07 goodkarma wrote: I agree with Sandroba insofar as that lesser known players that are obvious townies should be strongly considered. However, at the end of the day, going with your three strongest town reads is going to be optimal for selecting a party. Unfortunately I, like several other players here, have somewhat of a bias at times towards prioritizing players that we have played with before. It could also be said that less experienced players are more likely to post like crap and not distinguish themselves as town than "vets" (look at deino). So there might be some unintentional bias towards vets (which is something I would try to avoid to the best of my ability). To be clear I will definitely be reassessing my read on Prox (as well as Sandroba) before making a finalized Vice Presidential Candidate trifecta. I don't feel it's absolutely necessary that all three chosen members are townie looking newbies. I feel that the chosen members should be closest to 100% confirmed town, and that newbies should not be left out of consideration. Maybe there is a small difference between myself and Sandroba in this area. That's good for my election campaign I suppose... So, he explains he has a slightly different plan than Sandro. Fair enough. Still, I wondered, why would anyone who has a town read on Sandro would vote Goodkarma instead of Sandroba, when Sandroba was running for party leader himself? After all, he is the vet, the well known scumhunter who was drawing votes with his name alone. Why would GK expect to be voted instead of Sandroba when his team contained Sandroba as well? I also have a short discussion with GK about town/scumhunting here. After that I write the following: On November 22 2012 07:04 phagga wrote: - Goodkarma: I will have to go through his filter again (not in the next 10 hours though), but my gut currently says that he is talking too much about the importance of townhunting. I have him in my mind as "looks like he is contributing but is not really helping town". Do not want him on the party. I do not call him scum. I voice my suspicion of him. Some later, Goodkarma posts this: On November 22 2012 15:10 goodkarma wrote: 3) Sandroba: However much I feel he's playing lazy (he is), I keep coming back to his filter. I do currently believe that he is town. Everything he has done to date has been to provide clarity and insight into reads others have had and the general mechanics of this specific game. He could do this as scum, but I am inclined to believe he could have been a little less helpful and gotten away with it as scum as well. I look forward to seeing his proposed party as this will provide the information I need to help solidify my understanding of his thought process and determine if he truly belongs on this platform. But as it currently stands, I believe him to be town, and am including him on my platform. And again, I wonder, why should anyone vote GK instead of Sandroba if GK is gonna take Sand on his team anyway. Their plans differ only slightly, and most people would probably trust a town sand more to make accurate reads than a town GK. I was then writing a longer post about who I wanted as party leader and why. Somewhere in there was this part about Goodkarma and that I did not understand why he was voting Sandroba. Then I realised that it might be better to ask GK beforehand, show that I don't trust him and then post the longer post. Additionally, I wanted to show him where I came from with my suspiciouns and added that "What do you say about this:" part. However, it was meant to draw a reaction, i did not have a scum read on him at that point, I just wanted to see how he responded. So I posted this: On November 22 2012 18:52 phagga wrote: @Goodkarma If you trust Sandro so much, why do you not vote him? If GK thinks Sandro is so townie that you includes him in your team, why should I vote you instead of Sandro? What do you say to the following: You are scum, you include a town sandro to make his team more townie, hoping to catch more votes like that. Also, after copying the short paragraph in a new post, I started changing the sentences from third person to second person (as I was going to ask GK directly instead of talking about him in 3rd person). I made an error in the second sentence of the first paragraph (it should be "if you think Sandro..."). The reason is that I was doing this in a hurry, I was at work. I had already typed this long post that I wanted to put online, so I hurried to get this short post about GK out. Perhaps that is a reason why I did not word it clear enough, which is possibly why you seem to interpret it as "phagga says GK is scum and Sandro is town", while in reality it was supposed to be a hypothetical question that - should provoke a reaction of GK - should show GK what my fear about his candidature was Then, 3 minutes later, I posted the aforementioned big post, where I discussed who I wanted to vote and why. So, I admit, contradiction is the wrong word. His candidature did not make any sense to me with Sandroba in his team. Also, I know I am not the only one who felt that way, look at this post from prom for example, or risks post here. | ||
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I'm on the way to the buss/train, will hopefully be online again before the deadline. | ||
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On December 01 2012 00:49 goodkarma wrote: eh, I was answering a question hapa asked me. Since when is that a bad thing? Are you actually reading what I post?So you consider rehashing old arguements I've already addressed activity? You do know Hapa has a case against you, and you are continuing to behave as scum in the way highlighted in that case, right? + Show Spoiler + (Not coming up with any new arguement of any kind. Attacking "safe" players who already have cases against them...) (posting from phone) | ||
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On December 01 2012 01:25 iamperfection wrote: dont even see how that would work what would you do with all the people with 0 votes? Ignore them, probably? I dont know, it is just something that came to my mind while pondering about the game. That is why I ask you guys about your opinion. Might be i am just too paranoid. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On December 01 2012 01:34 goodkarma wrote: Does it matter who it was in reply to? It's rehashing arguments all the same... Here's a thought: Besides me (and obviously Toad), who do you think has the highest chance of being scum and why? Dude, seriously. you ask If I am aware that Hapa made a case against me as answer to my post who is an answer to Hapas case against me. Your post is nonsensical. Also, since when is defending myself scummy? + Show Spoiler + On December 01 2012 02:05 goodkarma wrote: I almost missed it. He linked to a very old case on Hopeless about a page ago... Let's take a look at it: This only adds to the evidence this guy is scum. It is super-lazy to use this as your case. What's more, it was a case he didn't have any conviction with describing. I'm not at all convinced from his case he thinks hopeless is scum.: Let's start with the bolded part.: The opposite alignment issue was already explained. And wanting to be in a party at this point in the game would be suicide for scum. So that only leaves a strange remark about Toad being town... Second paragraph: "Regarding your post, I like the point about his sentence that he will not bring any last minute shenanigans. I mean, this is what everyone expects, why does he feel he has to announce this? seems like he is missing a townie mindest.": How is a "no shenanigans" announcement indicative of only a scum mentality? He needs to elaborate on this point... Third Paragraph: "The "Bring it, bitches" is interesting because he first takes a defensive stance in his answers to TCs case, but then tries to look aggressive with that last sentence. It does not seem authentic, but I don't think it's alignement indicative. " So here, he's saying that what hopeless says isn't genuine, but isn't necessarily scum motivated. In other words, he tells us nothing. So what I get from this post that amounts to any kind of opinion at all is: 1) Hopeless said Toad could be town once, 2) Announcing no shennanigans means Hopeless is scum... Does everyone see how wishy-washy and weak this case is? This is exactly how a scum trying to blend in posts. It is blatantly obvious from stunts like this that phagga is scum. The post was two days ago. That's once cycle. That's not "very old". The post was not a case. It was an answer to snb who asked me about my opinion on Hopeless in regard to his case. My comments were related to his case. I have written more about what I think of hopeless here and in the discussion with him here. That is for example the reason why the "bring it bitches" thing is in there: I read it differently than snb, so I wanted to comment on it since he ASKED for my comments. And only because the opposite alignement stuff is explained I am no longer allowed to talk about it? I am not allowed to describe how I felt about it back when it came up? Even if he would have specifically asked to comment on it? Seriously, you are grasping at straws here. You have not even correctly read my post, let alone my filter, you did not put the post into context to try to understand what's going on. you are just trying desperately to discredit me at all cost. You don't care about the truth, you put meanings into my sentences that were not there, you ignore time stamps, exagerate, and try anything to make me look bad. | ||
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On December 01 2012 07:37 Hapahauli wrote: Oh @ Phagga Regarding that whole "GoodKarma Contradiction" thing on the D1 party elections, I have no idea where the hell you're going with it, or how him putting one of his town reads on his party is scummy. You keep saying that people had no reason to vote for GK over Sandroba, but how is that a contradiction on his part? That's just your opinion. *sigh* On December 01 2012 00:19 phagga wrote: So, I admit, contradiction is the wrong word. His candidature did not make any sense to me with Sandroba in his team. Why the hell are people not reading my posts? It stands right there that contradiction was the wrong word, and it explains how I felt about it, and why, and it even shows that I am not the only one that thought this way. Just go back an read it. | ||
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I do not know the lore well, so I go with what GK digged up from Gamefaq: ##Slash: C ##Flea: C Going off into the weekend, my activity will be low for the next 48 hours. | ||
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I trust the ones who say that Dungeon Path B is the best option. I have not played the game. Surviving holes (with possible additional fights) seems reasonable. So B. Regarding Magus: According to GamesFAQ (search for "Boss: MAGUS") you should attack him while he is risking to cast a spell, so B or C seem the better options. Masamune would have helped decreasing his defense, unfortunately it is no longer available. However, we are down one party member and the FAQ is unclear about if you are able to finish him off before he casts his spell or not. Acro implies that you are not always able to do so. Therefore, healing up seems wiser. ##Ozzie: B ##Magus: A | ||
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On December 01 2012 10:25 phagga wrote: I took 75 damage. Strange. I can only assume it was a scum shot as a town shot would be pretty stupid. Using my Night Action on Goodkarma. | ||
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I agree. I breadcrumbed my name, it is not golem. Saw those posts too late. | ||
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Also, I took 75 damage. | ||
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PreEdit: I just got a PM telling me that I did not take any damage. | ||
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On December 03 2012 09:19 CaveJohnson wrote: If we go to the end of time we can learn magic. However he did flip scum so it might not happen but it is our best bet to get additional powers. Uh, what are you talking about exaclty? I can't follow you. | ||
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On December 03 2012 09:21 Clarity_nl wrote: In the game, you learn magic when you travel to the End Of Time. I got that part, but who flipped scum and why is that relevant in this context? (I assume he is talking about either Sand or Toad, but why?) | ||
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On December 03 2012 17:00 risk.nuke wrote: ##Vote strongandbig Hapas first ability sound like bogus. The second sound like scum. That post sounds like scum. you have posted almost nothing in the last 72 hours, and all you do is trying to judge a player on is claimed abilities. Hapa has posted a lot in the last few hours, why don't you comment on that? | ||
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Tell me about it. On December 03 2012 17:50 goodkarma wrote: Incredibly hypocritical to be saying this, considering pretty much the exact same thing could be said of you. You haven't posted anything of substance for quite a while (like ~2 days...). What do you think of Hapa? You've spent a good deal of effort defending yourself against his case, but I don't see much about what you actually think of him... You still don't read my posts properly, do you? About Hapa: Behaviourwise I was leaning slightly town on him. I have read some games where he was town, and I know that he is capable of a much stronger town play. However, the way he defended himself and how he presented and pushed his case on me (however wrong it is) made me believe he is not scum. I do see however that people accuse him of contradictions regarding his Night Actions, and I will have to sort that out for myself to see how it influences my read on him. | ||
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Regarding SnB: Having two damaging abilities, him visiting Djo who is in the party is damning in any case. However, I am also confident in my scum read on Goodkarma, so I am happy to lynch either of them. For now, my vote stays on GK. | ||
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On December 03 2012 21:24 kitaman27 wrote: Good news Phagga, if you're not golem, would you mind revealing your actual role name? The reason I asked S&B to commit to checking you is because I couldn't come up with anything else that matches the flavor. Still waiting for VE to reveal the reasoning for his night action. What do you hope to achieve by knowing my role name? | ||
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Austins post on risk.nuke pretty much mirrors my thoughts. I agree with his analysis that risk was playing rather protown D1, but since then his activity has gone down badly. I would like to see more from Austin to get a better picture of his alignemnet, but currently I do not think he is scum. risk.nuke: As said, his early play looks slightly townie, however recently his activity dropped hard. I would really like to hear from him why this is the case. Also, I would like to hear from him what he thinks of Hapa. @Syllo, is risk more active in the mason circle? My scum reads are snb and GK. Regarding hopeless (who I have still marked as scum): I was also looking at a series of posts that discussed Hopeless' night actions and if they add up, but I'm currently unable to find it. If anyone knows where it is, a friendly pointer would be very nice. @Acro for your spreadsheet, I was the one dealing damage to Goodkarma last night. | ||
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On December 04 2012 02:28 Acrofales wrote: @Phagga: while your ability seems to check out: you took 75 damage N5 and dealt 75 damage N6, does your copy tell you the name of the ability? If so, can you tell us what it was called? No, it does not tell me the name. | ||
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On December 04 2012 06:32 Acrofales wrote: What makes you think bus targets are notified? Honestly, the normal MO is for them not to be. Theoretically also not. I admit that bus drivers are not an easy role to understand, but Djo is one of the few people who we know could not have been on the receiving end of a bus with SnB, assuming Syllo targeted SnB. He had no spells left and would thus not have been able to target himself. I got this ability that anytime someone targets me with a night action, I get to use that action next night, remember? I asked Greymist just to be sure, I do not have a night action next night. Therefore, noone targeted me with anything last night. | ||
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On December 04 2012 15:35 Hapahauli wrote: Speaking of Phagga, I'm currently having some reservations that push me closer back to null on him. While I still find his stuff on CJ and his early-game really scummy, he's had several opportunities to discredit me and push suspicion on me with other players taking the lead, and has taken no part in it. Something to sleep over I suppose. Hapa, you are aware that GK is pretty much doing this with me in the last few days? I pointed this out here. There was at least one other occasion where he just blatantly ignored that I said beforehand that I would be inactive and attacked me for my inactivty. This behaviour just further convinced me that he is scum. Regarding VE: Being inactive on the verge of a modkill does not really say anything about his alignement. If it turns out that he is just going to post again this circle to not get modkilled, then he is mainly vigi-stuff. If he still wants to participate in this game properly, I expect him to step up his game drastically. | ||
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On December 04 2012 20:11 strongandbig wrote: ##lynch cavejohnson ##epoch 1999 Lets get this shit over with yo Both of these things are gonna happen eventually might as well do them now So CaveJohnson is scum? Care to explain why? | ||
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On December 05 2012 00:40 goodkarma wrote: So just briefly: Your vote post is pretty funny. Because it basically says, "I'd rather lynch my favorite scum read over a sure scum." The scum motivation here is apparent: trying to set up a counterwagon to prevent the snb lynch. If I would have switched my vote you would have accused me of bussing. If I would have wanted to set up a counterwagon I would have actually pushed you, which I did not. On December 05 2012 00:40 goodkarma wrote: As for this quote: So your post on hopeless was not a case...? And every time I bring up your disinterest in coming up with your own opinion on why someone is scum, it seems your favorite thing to do is to bring up one or two old quotes that don't point to a very coherant case... So how about this: if hopeless is your next strongest scumread: Put all your arguments on why you think Hopeless is scum in one spot, in one case post. Hopeless has been active enough that there's clearly more to go on than comments which are several cycles old. You briefly mention you still find him suspicious here: here. To be clear, I expect to see some followup from you, not a series of half-baked ideas. Because tunneling me with old arguments is a splendid way of pretending to be active and interested while contributing nothing. If you want to prove that you're town, the first step is to take some initiative and actually show you can do your own scumhunting, without recycling and rehashing others' arguments. I don't take requests from you. I don't care what you think of me. You are scum, you need to die. | ||
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On December 04 2012 23:51 Acrofales wrote: People claimed from the middle ages: H1: suspects he gets bonuses in this era Keirathi: gets bonus for being in a party in middle ages GK: no known bonuses People from the future: Oatsmaster: small bonus in 2300AD Adam: doubles his vig shot damage if he manages to hit with it Present: Iamperfection: might get an upgrade if in a successful team (is the era important?) risk.nuke: no bonuses claimed CJ: no bonuses claimed Hapa: no known bonus Antiquity: Promethelax: no bonuses claimed That's it for era-based bonuses claimed so far. Sounds like the Middle Ages it is. ##Epoch: Middle Ages | ||
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On December 05 2012 00:40 goodkarma wrote: So just briefly: Your vote post is pretty funny. Because it basically says, "I'd rather lynch my favorite scum read over a sure scum." The scum motivation here is apparent: trying to set up a counterwagon to prevent the snb lynch. Btw, from where do you know that SnB is sure scum? All I know is that his behaviour was extremely anti-town, hence the lynch. But town does not know his alignement yet. | ||
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On December 05 2012 01:20 goodkarma wrote: SnB was caught in a lie when syllo found he targeted Djo, he made a very implausible story about being bussed, and then posted this: So yeah, strongandbig is scum. Perhaps a better question is: how can you in any way think at this point strong could be town? There we go again. I am so sick of this. you always turning around my words to create meanings that were not there. Where is the town motivation in that? In case you have not noticed yet, there are other alignements besides town and scum. Now leave me the fuck alone. | ||
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Because he is always twisting around my words. I hate that. English is not my first language, so perhaps I am not always making myself completely clear, but I doubt that someone who would TRY to be objective about my posts would interpret them in the way GK does. I feel he just wants to discredit me at all costs, no matter if he has to bend the truth or not. And that pisses me off. | ||
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On December 05 2012 01:29 Keirathi wrote: How was he twisting your words in that post? He was asking a legit question: do you think there's any way s&b can be town? If so, why? No. But there are third parties out there. There may even be a second scum faction that we know nothing about yet (although it seems unlikely). Going to say that snb is sure scum just seems wrong in that context. We don't know what alignement snb has except that it is very unlikely town. | ||
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On December 05 2012 01:41 Keirathi wrote: I understand that S&B isn't 100% confirmed scum. It is very likely that he is scum, but he's not confirmed in a game like this until he flips. But I'm super confused by your "twisting my words" thing. Here's what went down: GK: "s&b is sure scum" you: "Why is s&b sure scum?" GK: "Here's my reasons. Do you think he could be town?" you: "Quit twisting my words and leave me the fuck alone" ..... I just dont understand your response. That is not what he said. He wrote Perhaps a better question is: how can you in any way think at this point strong could be town? Which implies that I think SnB is town. I never said that. I never thought that. At the very moment when syllo wrote that snb visited Djo it was clear that no sane townie would do this. The point is, he is implying that I said something which I never did. That is what is pissing me off. If he would have asked the question the way you did above, it would have been completely different. Additionally, my impression is that GK is a player who cautiosly words his posts (when he does not claim to be drunk) and who is aware of the power of a well written post. I am pretty sure he knew exactly what kind of impression his phrasing would leave with the reader. | ||
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On December 05 2012 02:09 Acrofales wrote: It is strange you bring this up with regards to SnB, yet never mentioned anything like it with Toad. Why were you sure Toad was scum, yet are now bringing up 3P and second scumteams that we have NO evidence of (note, I made the previous post prematurely and hadn't read the rest of the discussion yet). Seriously? On November 25 2012 10:32 TheChronicler wrote: 200 gold Popcorn You target 2 players. You will be told if they are the same alignment or different. Night Results: toadesstern and sandroba, same. Gee, if Sand flipped scum, and Toads was the same alignement, what alignement does Toads have? Also, you have no idea how many scum are in this game. Or how many third parties. We are just guessing. We do not have night flips that might give us any indication on what the numbers and factions are in this game. All we know so far is that we have town and mafia and one claimed 3rd party. Everything else is in the dark. | ||
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I'll reevaluate some of my reads. Regarding risk, I've written yesterday that from his behaviour early game, i don't think he is scum. I am however worried by his heavy lurking for the last 5 days and his unwillingness to participate. I will look into this as well. For the time being: ##Vote: Goodkarma | ||
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On December 05 2012 23:57 risk.nuke wrote: I'm in school. Clarity, do you seriously believe your own case and how much thought did you pour into it. 30 seconds? Instant delurk, nice. you were gone for 5 days, never answered my questions regarding your opinion on hapa but when a near-confirmed townie makes a case on you you're back in less then 10 minutes. So, what do you think of Hapa? | ||
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On December 06 2012 12:07 iamperfection wrote: i have just added this as a win condition for myself so we need a topics to discuss while we twiddle are thumbs waiting for risk.nuke to amaze us tomorrow. 1. Who thinks the need a heal the most and why. (By the way i cant heal myself )2. Look real closely at your role do you think their is a possibility of you getting stronger? (i mainly think i can because i have numbers next to my abilities) 3.Talk about iamperfection in general in how great he his and why you could all be a little better if you were even just 1% more like him. 4. Lavos preparation. Hypothetically we dont lynch scum and have to select a party again does anyone feel in particular that they want to be on the party? (i do because i think i can get stronger and because i want to. discuss 1.) I got hit for 75 damage. I don't necessarily need a heal, there are better targets. However, if I get healed this night, i can heal someone too next night. 2.) No. 4.) Lavos Preparation: Well, if we would want everyone on high HP against Lavos, then healing me would help as it would duplicate this heal for town. Party: I don't gain anything being in the party, and I don't have any info that the party would benefit from me besides me being town. => I'm VT in regards to the party. | ||
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first letter of the words: On November 23 2012 02:56 phagga wrote: Kush is now on my "never-play-with-him-again"-list. @CaveJohnson I'm confused, are you Drazerk and your role name is The Chef or is your role name Drazerk? First letter of the n-th word in the n-th sentence in each paragraph: On November 23 2012 06:52 phagga wrote: I went through Syllos filter. I agree that he looks very townie indeed. Before I make a final decision where my vote stands, though, I want to hear from Kita again. Kita, are you still running with the same team? Or is it possible you'll switch someone out? Now, I finally need to drive home, it's almost 11pm and I'm still at work. I ought to be home in about 30 minutes, will therefore be online again before deadline if nothing crazy happens. I am Kino. | ||
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Also, I think I never said I do not want to claim, I just asked kita why he wants me to claim, and he never answered. | ||
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I looked back through his filter and made notes of all the stuff that stood out in one way or the other. I'd like to shortly discuss a few points: D1: His play started with an attempt to setup speculate, followed by a lot of one liners, which leaves a negative impression. He does pick it up a bit later on, but generally his D1 play does not look that nice. There is some softdefending of syllo, which could be done as either alignement. What is bothering me a bit is that he is voting Sandroba, stating that Sand is a strong town player, but then admits that he does not have a strong town read on him. Toads: He votes Toad when everyone wants to lynch Toad, thus avoiding the self-claimed 500 damage that Toad might have taken. There is no real town motivation for this. His explanation why he did it is just really bad, and gets worse if I read it in context and remember where town stood at that point. He also starts making theories about Toad being Town where there are 2 redchecks on him. He then defends this theorie until toads dies. I was screaming "scum!" for this originally, but in hindsight I don't see how scum would have benefited from such behaviour. He might have derailed the thread a bit, but that's it. I don't really see any other benefit, as he even said himself that Toad needs to be lynched in any case after 2 red checks. He did bring himself into the spotlight with this and was heavily scrutinized, I don't think that he would have wanted that as mafia for practically zero benefit. Also, he is stubborn on the topic, which is under this circumstances rather a town tell than a scum tell. Downplaying his own play: On D2/D3 he repeatedly laments that he will get mislynched anyway because his play is so scummy. This sounds like he wants to get compassion for his play, which looks inherently scummy. I never really liked that at all. Recent play: Somewhere around the Toad lynch is play has improved. He looks interested what's going on. he still has content-less one-liners, but at the same time there are posts like this that show his invested in the game in a townie way. He has a nice case on z-boson, followed by a short interaction with Hapa about it that both feel rather genuine. Especially considering his later game, I no longer see Hope as scum. I am still wary of him for his early play, but I think there are far better lynch candidates than him. | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
For him it is pretty much the opposite of Hope. I liked his early play as I explained earlier. However, for almost a week now he has gone silent. It was pointed out that he has not called a person scum or made a case. I asked him several times for his read on hapa and never got an answer. His recent play is worrying. He promised a defense and a case, and now, less than two hours before deadline, he has not posted it. I therefore assume he is not playing in towns interest, which warrants a lynch. About goodkarma: I wanted to update my read on him too, but did not find the time. I will do so in the next cycle, I should have a lot of time on my hand from tomorrow evening on (wife and kids are gone for a week). Since I seem to be the only one still having him marked as scum, i give him the benefit of the doubt until I have been able to go through his filter again. About the Epoch: I am happy following the majority again regarding the time we travel to. ##Unvote Lynch: Goodkarma ##Lynch: risk.nuke ##Epoch: Middle Ages And with this I'm off to bed. See you guys tomorrow. | ||
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On December 07 2012 07:21 Promethelax wrote: Phagga: why did you filter dive Hopeless over GK? I've started with it on Tuesday (ironically shortly before GK asked me to do a case on Hope), so it was something I had been working on for a while already. Back then, I did not see the need yet to question my read on GK. | ||
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Switzerland2194 Posts
On December 07 2012 12:18 kitaman27 wrote: Could we get a roleclaim from phagga? If he really can absorb abilities, it would seem quite imbalanced for town if he just claimed and gained heals/clarity's reset/investigative powers/cave's nuke. He hasn't really shown that he's trying to abuse his role if this is how it works. I am Kino. I am from 65,000,000 BC. My flavor says that kino is good at stealing and getting to places undetected. Therefore, from all the abilities used on me one night, one is chosen randomly and given to me for usage next night. Unfortunately, I am not told what that ability does, what it's name is, or anything. I am just told that I have a night ability, and that's it. That is the reason why I worded the following post this way: Because I assumed I would hit GK with 75 damage. If someone however had also used a DT check on me the night I got damaged for 75 HP, it would have been possible that I would use the DT check on GK instead of the damage. If we are in 65,000,000 BC, I get more information about the ability I can use. However, as in pretty much every game I play, I am to uninteresting for either Town or Mafia to use their abilities on me, and therefore, I have only been targeted once. | ||
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On December 07 2012 10:57 goodkarma wrote: Quick question: As best I can tell from the spreadsheet, no one has an ability that does 75 damage directly to a target (the closest I can find is 75 indirect damage as effect of Hapa's claimed "flamethrower" ability. So exactly whose ability could phagga have "copied" when he shot me? That is a pretty good question I've asked myself. I imagine there are two reasons why someone would shoot me:
All this can be cleared up rather nicely, however: Can the person damaging me for 75 HP please claim?. | ||
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On December 07 2012 17:26 Hapahauli wrote: @ Phagga What's your current stance on GK? Running out of time. Not sure why people think GK is confirmed town only because he was in the tent, but probably need to reread risks flip info. Have not done reevaluation of my read on GK yet, therefore still think he is scum and risk used the ability on him to make him look townier. More on this later. | ||
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On December 08 2012 04:25 austinmcc wrote: Then phagga, who claimed to copy random abilities. This is another ability that we could test, but it seems like ALL the abilities are testable at this point, to some extent. Just right off the bat though, this feels like the weakest of the claims to me because of the variety of roles we have. I'd like to hear more about his copy abilities. If kita uses something on phagga, does phagga copy it despite not having MP? If snb attacked phagga, does phagga have to guess someone's name or not (and if he does, then he not only copies abilities but also has the potential to learn the restrictions of any ability used on him, which feels odd)? If phagga is the secondary or tertiary target of flamethrower, does he still get to copy that, since it wasn't used ON him? Perhaps I was unclear about that, so let me say it like this: If only one ability is used on me, I get that very ability to use, and none else. The whole "random" thing only comes into play if more than one ability in the same night is used on me. And even than its only random between all abilities that were used on me that one night. Also, I am always told the targeting requirements. So if I have to guess the rolename correct, i would asume that I am told that, as it is part of the targeting requirement. When I was excited about CJs ability (what was its name? turducken?), I actually asked greymist beforehand if I would get the ability even if I was only target A. He confirmed. That leads me to believe that I will get any skill as long as I am in some way targeted. The only skill I am unsure about right now is Flamethrower, since its user would not target me at all. I'll ask GM what it would do if I was only the secondary target. Keep in mind though, that I have to be the target of another ability if I am also supposed to be the secondary (or tertiary) target of flamethrower, I don't know what you think is not "well thought through" about my claim. If any of you has questions about my claim yet unanswered, ask me, i can ask Greymist if it should indeed be something that I do not already know. finally, keep in mind that I got to use my night ability only once, and that was a simple damaging ability. If I would get to use a more complex ability, i'd sure to ask questoin. Therefore, comparing me with snb is completely wrong, as he claimed to have an ability of which he had no clue what it would do, but still used it without asking questions. | ||
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On December 07 2012 21:49 Acrofales wrote: GK - was in the tent, all scum tried to get him killed (except risk) could you please elaborate on that? i don't see anything in Toads or Sandros filter that they tried to kill GK, and your spreadsheet does not point to this either. | ||
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Switzerland2194 Posts
On December 08 2012 06:07 Hapahauli wrote: Toad and Sandro no, but both VE and SnB tried pretty hard to kill him. Seems sufficient enough to label GK as town. VE made a case on him after several other people had made a case on him. That's pretty much the only time he mentions GK. That's hardly "tried pretty hard to kill him", that could as well be a buss. The only one who could qualify for really trying to kill GK is snb, and I agree that this makes GK less likely scum. On December 08 2012 06:29 austinmcc wrote: The fact that GK claims to be responsible for otherwise-unclaimed damage on Drazerk, on a cycle where we have unclaimed damage on a dead townie, makes it very unlikely he's the remaining scum. Ok, so this is what I must have been missing on the whole "GK is almost confirmed town" thing. Thanks. | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On December 08 2012 04:25 austinmcc wrote: If phagga is the secondary or tertiary target of flamethrower, does he still get to copy that, since it wasn't used ON him? Yes, I have a chance to get flamethrower in that situation, GM confirmed it. | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
I also finally read the excerpt from the tent QT. I get rather town vibes from that. I understand that the latest night actions rather speak for a town GK. I need to sleep over this. I'm really quite confused right now. | ||
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Switzerland2194 Posts
On December 08 2012 11:51 austinmcc wrote: Okay. I've taken the time to read over Phagga's filter. This is a bit bass-ackwards, because I'm already looking at him to be the scum in our unclaimed group, and so reading his early game is shaded by that. But what I get from his filter is...that he thinks goodkarma is scum. Sometimes. Most times. For a little while no, then yes again, and now no. Other than that...I pick up a couple things that should be pointed out. (1) Phagga wants scumhunting. He does not want townhunting. + Show Spoiler + On November 21 2012 16:54 phagga wrote: Ok, looks like I need to clarify myself. Townhunting is stupid. Do you know why? Because scum can fake it to no end, since they know who is not scum. Talking about who is townie makes it much easier for scum to blend in, which then makes it much harder for town to choose the right people for their teams. Yes, there may be multiple factions in this game. Still, if we force scum to scumhunt they are more likely to trip as if they can just give their townreads out. So, no, I disagree that this game revolves around townhunting. We find out who is townie by scumhunting, not by townhunting. Phagga proceeds to spend the game...not doing much scumhunting. Acro picked up on this early, but at least within Phagga's filter I don't see much of him responding to this line of questioning being continued. (2) A list of phagga's scum reads (I'm going to leave out a bunch of links, but there are very few "x is scum" and a tremendous amount of wishywashy "x might be scum, might not be scum, just saying' " posts): Drazerk, GK (but hasn't gone through filter), BioSC (based on someone else's comment it seems) - + Show Spoiler + On November 23 2012 18:05 phagga wrote: My list with reads on everyone has one person painted in bright red: CaveJohnson. That's were my vote goes for now. However, my list is not up to date. I will try to go through several filters and update it, so I might make a more definite vote before Kita has to make his prediction. People who are also red in my list: - Goodkarma, although I REALLY have to go through his filter now. Have not done that yet. - BioSC, lurking hardcore although he was very excited pregame, as someone mentioned Other people I want to look into/know more about: - Sandroba, I read his filter yesterday. I want to hear more from him and what he says about the current accusations - Hopeless1der, I have "looks shady, check filter" note on him, but I don't know why anymore. Will clear this up. ##Vote CaveJohnson Then GK definitely, after reading filter. Then GK isn't scum - + Show Spoiler + On November 26 2012 07:27 phagga wrote: Ok, I've updated my read on GK and I would no longer lynch him. When the D2 lynch came to a close, he asked people to consolidate on either sandroba or Toad. He tried to shut down any discussion that would bring in new candidates. considering that Sandro is confirmed scum and Toad is very very likely scum, I don't see the mafia motivation behind is behaviour. also, the way he acts D3 seems more pro-town than on the first day. All in all, I put GK on null for the moment. Then GK still not scum, but phagga angry with him - + Show Spoiler + On November 28 2012 20:32 phagga wrote: You have some nerve. I have not seen a single case of you this game, your filter is almost completely devoid of any scumhunting, and you go and lecture dieno on how to play? Dieno achieved something in this game that you have not yet done, he has established himself as town. That is already worth a lot for town. You may not agree with his methods of doing it, but he was one of the fastest established townies in this game. But you come in the thread regularly and have nothing better to do than to mock him. Do you think this is creating the kind of town atmosphere we need to win this game? What is the benefit for town of you calling him incompetent, bad and mocking his playstile? I don't see one. Ah, finally you make a case! Oh noes, you couldn't be arsed to make a case, instead you throw out this worthless list where you throw some dirt around with barely any explanation. Like I care. If you are too drunk to play, don't play. If you play, I don't care about your state, i will hold you responsible for your actions. This is weird. At this point, phagga has put forth 2 scumreads. (1) GK, which he has retracted. (2) Drazerk, who he didn't push, and hasn't mentioned really at all since initially saying he found Drazerk scummy. phagga is getting on GK's case about creating a good town atmosphere and about a lack of scumhunting, when he's retracted 1/2 his scumhunting and isn't doing anything with the other half Back to GK being scum, along with hopeless1der - + Show Spoiler + On November 29 2012 01:32 phagga wrote: Note that phagga never puts forth "Scummy on GK again" on his own. He's asked what he's thinking about GK after that last post, he responds that he's changed his mind and GK is scummy. BTW, hopeless1der is now scummy too, just out of nowhere1. After his behaviour today I'm rather leaning scum on him again. Reason is that his behaviour was rather disruptive imho, and that is rather scum motivated. Also, z-boson made me rethink the whole bussing-situation, and I don't feel as sure about my conclusion from last time anymore. So, leaning scum on GK. Pre-Edit: What also really bothered me was that GK was posting this huge list with 11 people on it. That's half of the remaining player base. The problem is, people are slightly bored in this game, they try too hard to find scum and start to misinterpret situations because of confirmation bias. The want to find scum so hard that they scum where none is. Syllo actually pointed this out a few pages ago, and took this as a reason to take a break IIRC. Looking at GKs list from that point of view shows how counterproductive it is to towns interest. You don't want half of the town chasing the other half of the town. You want people trying to make proper cases of one or two other people, and show how the actions of their suspects fit a mafia agenda (or how they don't). Those cases don't have to be long, but they should have a clear focus and a proper analysis. Then others can discuss it and agree or disagree, which will lead most of the times on a reasonable result. GKs list mainly spreads distrust and is therefore counterproductive. 2. I remember going over Hopeless' filter a few days ago and setting him null on my list. Then Hope came up with this strange theorie about what if Toad flips town, followed by TC saying that Acro and Hope are of opposite alignement. Then he wanted to be part of the party to show that he is town, which was a red flag for me. Since then he is marked as scum. Regarding your post, I like the point about his sentence that he will not bring any last minute shenanigans. I mean, this is what everyone expects, why does he feel he has to announce this? seems like he is missing a townie mindest. The "Bring it, bitches" is interesting because he first takes a defensive stance in his answers to TCs case, but then tries to look aggressive with that last sentence. It does not seem authentic, but I don't think it's alignement indicative. 3. I'm running out of time I want to go through Kita's filter again, I don't like to just make comments about a person without some facts behind it. I hope to give you answer until the deadline.Which reminds me, I haven't voted yet. BRB with vote. He gets called out for not following-up Drazerk read, responds - + Show Spoiler + On November 30 2012 08:14 phagga wrote: He improved. There was no need push him anymore on D3. Also, i was absent of the thread for most of D2 (which I announced beforehand). Regarding the last post, yes, I was pretty sure at that point that he is at least not scum. However, i was overeager when I wrote that post, I should have gone into this more cautiously, not revealing that much about me. Says risk "sounds like scum," but nothing more - + Show Spoiler + On December 03 2012 17:18 phagga wrote: That post sounds like scum. you have posted almost nothing in the last 72 hours, and all you do is trying to judge a player on is claimed abilities. Hapa has posted a lot in the last few hours, why don't you comment on that? Now strongandbig scum based on syllo's tracking - + Show Spoiler + On December 03 2012 20:33 phagga wrote: @risk.nuke I also still would like to know what you think of hapa. Regarding SnB: Having two damaging abilities, him visiting Djo who is in the party is damning in any case. However, I am also confident in my scum read on Goodkarma, so I am happy to lynch either of them. For now, my vote stays on GK. Note: First time he's called out snb, really mentioned snb at all recently risk sounds like scum? So...scum, right? Nope. - + Show Spoiler + On December 04 2012 01:33 phagga wrote: z-boson/austin: I noticed that z-boson made several unclear statetements which he had to rectract later. I personally already thought that it was probably only a problem of him being busy and working in haste, which resulted in those errors. Nevertheless, I asked him about this because I wanted to see his reaction. He never replied and got replaced shortly after, which seems to confirm that he was just to busy to formulate properly, and that there is no deeper meaning to this. Austins post on risk.nuke pretty much mirrors my thoughts. I agree with his analysis that risk was playing rather protown D1, but since then his activity has gone down badly. I would like to see more from Austin to get a better picture of his alignemnet, but currently I do not think he is scum. risk.nuke: As said, his early play looks slightly townie, however recently his activity dropped hard. I would really like to hear from him why this is the case. Also, I would like to hear from him what he thinks of Hapa. @Syllo, is risk more active in the mason circle? My scum reads are snb and GK. Regarding hopeless (who I have still marked as scum): I was also looking at a series of posts that discussed Hopeless' night actions and if they add up, but I'm currently unable to find it. If anyone knows where it is, a friendly pointer would be very nice. @Acro for your spreadsheet, I was the one dealing damage to Goodkarma last night. First mention of VE in a while - + Show Spoiler + On December 04 2012 17:29 phagga wrote: Regarding VE: Being inactive on the verge of a modkill does not really say anything about his alignement. If it turns out that he is just going to post again this circle to not get modkilled, then he is mainly vigi-stuff. If he still wants to participate in this game properly, I expect him to step up his game drastically. risk scum for inactivity, 1:30 til deadline - + Show Spoiler + On December 07 2012 06:29 phagga wrote: About risk.nuke For him it is pretty much the opposite of Hope. I liked his early play as I explained earlier. However, for almost a week now he has gone silent. It was pointed out that he has not called a person scum or made a case. I asked him several times for his read on hapa and never got an answer. His recent play is worrying. He promised a defense and a case, and now, less than two hours before deadline, he has not posted it. I therefore assume he is not playing in towns interest, which warrants a lynch. About goodkarma: I wanted to update my read on him too, but did not find the time. I will do so in the next cycle, I should have a lot of time on my hand from tomorrow evening on (wife and kids are gone for a week). Since I seem to be the only one still having him marked as scum, i give him the benefit of the doubt until I have been able to go through his filter again. About the Epoch: I am happy following the majority again regarding the time we travel to. ##Unvote Lynch: Goodkarma ##Lynch: risk.nuke ##Epoch: Middle Ages And with this I'm off to bed. See you guys tomorrow. (3) His votes on confirmed scum Sandroba - + Show Spoiler + On November 25 2012 07:53 phagga wrote: Not finished with reading everything. Not feeling sure enough with Toad yet. I can agree to a Sandro lynch. His reluctance to defend himself, the way he talked about his scumreads (only mentioning names, barely any reasoning) and his lurking when under pressure are enough reasons for me to justify a vote. ##Unvote ##Vote Sandroba ***Quote tag messing up and can't seem to fix. Rest is editorializing by me*** Right before deadline. Hasn't read, sidesteps talking about toad. Is okay lynching Sandroba, but hasn't mentioned Sandroba as scum before. Toad - + Show Spoiler + On November 29 2012 09:17 phagga wrote: ##Vote Toadesstern He has mentioned toad ONCE I believe at this point. Not as scum. I know you guys had like...matching checks on him, but at this point, phagga just hasn't talked about toad AT ALL, hasn't interacted, hasn't read him, doesn't touch him ***Quote tag messing up and can't seem to fix. Rest is editorializing by me*** He has mentioned toad ONCE I believe at this point. Not as scum. I know you guys had like...matching checks on him, but at this point, phagga just hasn't talked about toad AT ALL, hasn't interacted, hasn't read him, doesn't touch him Did not vote snb risk.nuke - + Show Spoiler + On December 07 2012 06:29 phagga wrote: About risk.nuke For him it is pretty much the opposite of Hope. I liked his early play as I explained earlier. However, for almost a week now he has gone silent. It was pointed out that he has not called a person scum or made a case. I asked him several times for his read on hapa and never got an answer. His recent play is worrying. He promised a defense and a case, and now, less than two hours before deadline, he has not posted it. I therefore assume he is not playing in towns interest, which warrants a lynch. About goodkarma: I wanted to update my read on him too, but did not find the time. I will do so in the next cycle, I should have a lot of time on my hand from tomorrow evening on (wife and kids are gone for a week). Since I seem to be the only one still having him marked as scum, i give him the benefit of the doubt until I have been able to go through his filter again. About the Epoch: I am happy following the majority again regarding the time we travel to. ##Unvote Lynch: Goodkarma ##Lynch: risk.nuke ##Epoch: Middle Ages And with this I'm off to bed. See you guys tomorrow. My overall takeaway is that for someone who D1 was guns blazing "Don't townhunt, gotta scumhunt," phagga has not made good on that. In some odd ways. (1) His scumreads pop in and out of nowhere. Drazerk was scum, then he wasn't. No update, no nothing, and more or less no discussion of Drazerk for the rest of the game. GK is scum, not scum, scum. Never gives a scumread on Sandroba, just agrees and drops a vote. Never gives a scumread OR MENTIONS Toad, drops the vote. Never drops a scumread on snb. Drops a scumread on risk during the last day, prior to that one of phagga's only interactions with risk was to say a post of risk's sounded scummy but risk was town. Which is fine, that happens. But it's curious when it's basically the limit of your interaction with confirmed scum. Again, I'm coming for a point of thinking he's the scum in the group, but the malleability of his scumreads lets him do whatever he wants. Add onto that that he never seems to volunteer a read. There's always a request, and he notes that some read has changed, without ever having thought he might want to note that before needing to be asked. (2) His votes on scum as a whole lack reasoning and are almost always 11th hour. Sandroba vote is 7 minutes before deadline, and he says he hasn't read everything, seems to just be jumping on board. Toad vote is just a toad vote, nothing more, but then he backs off later in the day, worried about a pardoner. No vote on snb risk.nuke vote is 1:30 until deadline, after he was townie on risk earlier I secretly like the pardoner stuff, because I loves me some paranoia, but...his votes ALWAYS limp in on scum, bar Toad who was checked. They limp in right at deadline. There's rarely a mention of the suspect before the vote, and in risk's case, the mention was that he "sounded like scum" but was townie. So, for now : ##vote phagga We have unexplained damage. He fits the do-er of that damage better than others for me. We have very little scumhunting. We have very odd interactions with confirmed scum, and...curious votes. One thing I want to bring up though is the waiting is odd. He posts on GK all day every day, and waits to vote scum until last-minute. But he doesn't...he's not trying to save them much. Apart from risk, he's not going around calling the others townie (He had a weird spat with someone who called snb scum, saying we didn't know snb scum, but ... that whole exchange was funky and I left it out). That's the one thing I'm puzzled by, is why is he waiting until last minute but not trying to save these guys. He can't be waiting on anyone else, so I don't get the delay and the odd votes. THAT Oatsmaster, is more like a wall of text. Regarding GK: I got my doubts yesterday of him being scum because several people suddenly saw him as strong town. I tried to figure out why, and ended up confused. I never said I no longer think he is scum. My problem additionally was that I barely have any other scum read. I already said how I think about hope and you earlier. so I was sitting there, looking at the list of the remaining players and thought: "if GK is not scum, who is it then?". I did not find an answer. Regarding Toad: That guy had 2 red checks on him for over 4 real time days. Why would I want to interact with him? Why is it wrong to vote him without further reasoning when HE HAS 2 RED CHECKS ON HIM!? Regarding Sandro: I said I wanted to look into him, it was on the weekends. I wrote about my weekends, I'm sure you read that since you claim to have read my filter. I really have no interest to go back to that topic again. Regarding Risk: I said his early game looked rather townie, but in the same sentence voiced my concerns that his activity dropped off. I never called him town. Add onto that that he never seems to volunteer a read. There's always a request, and he notes that some read has changed, without ever having thought he might want to note that before needing to be asked. This is just plain wrong. Update on VE, here another update, Here why I thought prom or hope should not be on the party. There are others, you may find them in my filter if you care. | ||
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On December 07 2012 10:40 goodkarma wrote: For what it's worth, I helped with CJ's demise too... How much damage did you do to CJ? | ||
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I got a bunch of people where I am pretty sure that they are town or playing in towns interest so far (Acro). Here are the ones that are left over: - Goodkarma - Hopeless1der - Austinmcc - Adam - Hapa (From all listed here, he is the least probably scum) Now, the point is, if GK is not scum (which I am slowly starting to think because of his night actions and behaviour around them, as well as the convo in the tent), then who else is? Hapa probably not, on Hope I just made an update that shows that I doubt he is scum. That leaves Adam and Austin. These are therefore the guys I am concentrating on next, so you will get more what I think of them before the deadline. | ||
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On December 08 2012 22:03 syllogism wrote: Only goodkarma and risk claimed and goodkarma didn't claim his name. Even if he had, SnB could only target one person per cycle and there were higher priority targets he did claim his name in the tent: 85 goodkarma 11-28-2012 02:53 PM ET (US) I've got stuff to do now, but to quickly address your questions: I am a minor character by the name of Fiona. I have forest critters that gather around my target (up to three stacks) and attack on my command... If they were to be bussed, I wouldn't know what to expect the outcome to be. I was thinking at the time that it meant 150 damage to my target, and just assumed the damage would be transferred. But now that I think about it, it could be that the damage could not be done to anyone other than CJ. Also: If you doubt I'm town, tell me who to shoot, and in three turns you'll have confirmation (two if we're talking about suboptimal dps...). That's really the only thing I can do for you here, other than asking you to go through my filter and compare it to my other games... | ||
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On December 08 2012 23:04 kitaman27 wrote: Phagga, could you walk me through why you never tried to abuse this role, through a claim? With a parity check, we could have cleared 4 players instead of two. You could have asked to be targeted by S&B to confirm his role. You could have increased our healing output by having someone heal yourself and then healing someone else the next cycle. What was your thought process on how you should use your role? When I got my role I asked myself if I should claim immediatly or not. However, the problem is that scum could easily mess with me as long as we are not in 65,000,000 BC. Imagine that someone is healing me. At the same time, I get damaged by scum. Now I have no clue which ability I am going to use next night, and it gets worthless as I risk either healing scum or damaging town. And even this only works if town actually believes my claim. Also, I guess you are aware what people normally ask for parity checks on themself, right? (In case you don't: godfathers). Also, of what use is it if I am being healed when already at full health? It makes no difference long term. Once I was damaged I did indeed propose that I get healed, but obviously I don't have enough town cred. Generally, most skills would be a waste if used on me only to copy them. A heal makes sense when I am damaged (which I was not until N4 or 5), a DT check once would work too. Damage is a waste as town, Roleblock is a waste. This is one of the reason why I was so excited about Turducken: A spell that would Target me just for comparison, and that I would get to use the next night. I could immediatly double the damage (which was potentially huge) with no downside. So, yeah, I decided to not claim D1 and see how it works out. Unfortunately I was never targeted with anything except for Oats 75 damage, so i barely got to use my ability. | ||
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On December 08 2012 23:30 austinmcc wrote: Seems more likely that the Kino thing is a fakeclaim. All we have is claimed flavor and a crumb of Kino. Lots of night actions unaccounted for, which makes me think that both golrm fits better AND could.have some base attack + the copycat bit. If.nothing else, kita's questions are good. How do you haves copy role and not use it? It looks more like he's sat back, avoided any situation that could test him or force him to use pro-towj abilities. Scum would barely use their abilities on me if I was scum only to copy them, which would mean that a lot more town abilities would have had to be used on me. Noone has claimed that, though, so your theorie is off. | ||
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On December 09 2012 00:18 syllogism wrote: Phagga having an ability that targets two players (players A and B) and makes him use a random ability that player A has on player B could explain some of the strange things, maybe Yeah right and perhaps you know your hidden modifier is actually positive although you are mafia and you therefore have some sort of godfather-role for party events, and are actually the last scum. (no, I do not mean that serious). Speculating about how my ability could actually work because you do not want to trust me/think I am lying is the worst way to try to find scum, just saying. You can make up any fantasy ability that fits the holes with the night actions, and assign it to me, but that does not make it real. | ||
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On December 08 2012 23:47 austinmcc wrote: Easiest answer is he didn't think it through, that we could then force him.to use protown night actions. I mean, we seem to have ALL missed out on that, nobody picked up that we could try and use the copying to our advantage. It's also not a giant advantage now that I think about it. Town healer heals him Nx. He has a heal for Nx+1, as does the healer. End result, 1 heal on him, 2 heals on town. Which is BETTER for him that just town healer healing on Nx and x+1. It actually works out well for him almost no matter what,.because the town actor "wastes" a protown action one night. you have just successfully described the town reason not to straight away claim my ability. good job. I'm on phone, but if the cycle he claimed was one where scum tried to take out someone highly visible (syllo, dinosaurs) then he could have been attempting to get heals away from.them for that night I tried to get turducken, and only as comparitive target. Toads would still have taken damage, but I would have had the chance to inflict damage the next night. | ||
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On December 09 2012 02:55 iamperfection wrote: Open question why would scum austin heal me? If he would not have healed a townie today, he would have been a sure lynch. I had no other choice. | ||
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On December 09 2012 03:48 austinmcc wrote: If I were scum, I seemed to already be on the chopping block. Why would I heal town in order to push back another cycle? Based on toads machine, scum wants to summon lavos early, so why would I not just die? I suppose that the amount of scum players in the fight vs lavos play a deciding factor. So I would imagine that scum tries to stay alive as long as possible in order to make it harder for town to beat lavos. | ||
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On December 09 2012 04:57 goodkarma wrote: I should have dealt him 150 damage. Scummm readz plox? Adam: He made a few cases, asks questions regularly and follows up on it. He compares meta on Sandro and snb, and in Sandro case explains nicely why Sandro is possibly scum. Also the way he argued in his posts vs z-boson looks good, logical. He does not have a lot of posts, but what is there is rather usefull for town. Not gonna vote him. Austin: I'm not through his filter yet, but the case from Adam and Hopes case on z-boson are rather good. However, I will go through his filter first and see if there is something else I'd like to add (positive and/or negative). | ||
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On December 09 2012 05:15 Hapahauli wrote: That "scum want to summon Lavos early" line kinda shows me that austin is not thinking like scum. He's not thinking about a seemingly obvious scum objective. I really think we should be lynching Phagga today. Austin's case is pretty good, and my readthrough of Phagga's play in recent days is somewhat alarming. Phagga's contributions as of late are a town case on Hopeless and very questionable tunneling of GoodKarma (whom he now thinks is town). That's basically it - he's been very reluctant to give scumreads or even scumhunt for that matter. The closest thing to scumhunting in his filter in recent days is the following: On December 08 2012 19:40 phagga wrote: since I have obviously been doing a bad job of putting all my relevant thoughts into the thread, let's try this differently. I got a bunch of people where I am pretty sure that they are town or playing in towns interest so far (Acro). Here are the ones that are left over: - Goodkarma - Hopeless1der - Austinmcc - Adam - Hapa (From all listed here, he is the least probably scum) Now, the point is, if GK is not scum (which I am slowly starting to think because of his night actions and behaviour around them, as well as the convo in the tent), then who else is? Hapa probably not, on Hope I just made an update that shows that I doubt he is scum. That leaves Adam and Austin. These are therefore the guys I am concentrating on next, so you will get more what I think of them before the deadline. Phagga seems to be playing the delay game. He hasn't posted anything on Austin/Adam, and his play is yet again following a pattern of getting ready to plop down a last-minute non-controversial vote on a candidate when the lynch is almost decided. Also, his town cases conflicts with his earlier in-game stance on scumhunting/townhunting: On November 21 2012 16:54 phagga wrote: Ok, looks like I need to clarify myself. Townhunting is stupid. Do you know why? Because scum can fake it to no end, since they know who is not scum. Talking about who is townie makes it much easier for scum to blend in, which then makes it much harder for town to choose the right people for their teams. Yes, there may be multiple factions in this game. Still, if we force scum to scumhunt they are more likely to trip as if they can just give their townreads out. So, no, I disagree that this game revolves around townhunting. We find out who is townie by scumhunting, not by townhunting. Things aren't adding up. His play so far has been the definition of blending in. It's the scummiest thing in the thread atm, and Phagga should be held accountable for it. [/QUOTE] Seriously, at the end of this game I want a proper definition of "scumhunting". When I make a case on Hope that shows me he is not scum, that help me find a better scum target too. When i ask risk.nuke like three times in once cycle about his read on Hapa, and never get an answer together with his general inactivity, that gives me a pretty good idea that he is hiding something. Scumhunting is not only making big ass cases, at least that's what I thought. But hey, I can happily just throw out a list with half the playerbase and some shitty reasoning and say "here, see me, I'm hunting scum!". Also, regarding towncases: You were the one who called me scum for not updating my read on CaveJohson. Now I am updating my read on some players and you call me out for a contradiction? What do you want now? | ||
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On December 09 2012 05:15 Hapahauli wrote: That "scum want to summon Lavos early" line kinda shows me that austin is not thinking like scum. He's not thinking about a seemingly obvious scum objective. I really think we should be lynching Phagga today. Austin's case is pretty good, and my readthrough of Phagga's play in recent days is somewhat alarming. Phagga's contributions as of late are a town case on Hopeless and very questionable tunneling of GoodKarma (whom he now thinks is town). That's basically it - he's been very reluctant to give scumreads or even scumhunt for that matter. The closest thing to scumhunting in his filter in recent days is the following: Phagga seems to be playing the delay game. He hasn't posted anything on Austin/Adam, and his play is yet again following a pattern of getting ready to plop down a last-minute non-controversial vote on a candidate when the lynch is almost decided. Also, his town cases conflicts with his earlier in-game stance on scumhunting/townhunting: Things aren't adding up. His play so far has been the definition of blending in. It's the scummiest thing in the thread atm, and Phagga should be held accountable for it. Seriously, at the end of this game I want a proper definition of "scumhunting". When I make a case on Hope that shows me he is not scum, that help me find a better scum target too. When i ask risk.nuke like three times in once cycle about his read on Hapa, and never get an answer together with his general inactivity, that gives me a pretty good idea that he is hiding something. Scumhunting is not only making big ass cases, at least that's what I thought. But hey, I can happily just throw out a list with half the playerbase and some shitty reasoning and say "here, see me, I'm hunting scum!". Also, regarding towncases: You were the one who called me scum for not updating my read on CaveJohson. Now I am updating my read on some players and you call me out for a contradiction? What do you want now? | ||
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On December 09 2012 05:27 Hapahauli wrote: Well Phagga, I want you to scumhunt. Making town cases on players whom will never be lynched today is not scum-hunting. You still don't have a concrete scumread 3 hours before the deadline, and it's quite disturbing. It's helping me narrow down who is scum and who not. I wrote like 15 minutes ago that I agree with the cases of Hope and Adam, so i am very likely going to vote Austin. I just wanted to check a few things myself, but if you are in such a hurry, here: ##Lynch: austinmcc Epoch: Prehistory | ||
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On December 09 2012 05:41 iamperfection wrote: i dont want to kill austin. I know for a fact that i got healed and he claimed it and im town so thats pro town in my book. He seems to be contributing now and trying to figure things out. People were expecting austin to heal a townie because they were suspicious of him. If he would not have healed you, he would have been lynched for sure today and we would not discuss right now at all. Healing a townie was his only possibility to try get through another lynchcycle. I also dont think a replacing out zbos would have bothered to make the big post that he did right before the deadline if he was scum. It seems like to me zbos was just pouring all his thoughts from his perspective on what he thought was going on in the game. If he was scum i think zbos would have just said fuck it and not said a word. I don't see why or how this is alignment-indicative. | ||
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On December 09 2012 05:49 Hapahauli wrote: @ Phagga To elaborate: This will be the 4th (5th?) lynch cycle where you beat around the bush and post very irrelevant content until the very end of the cycle. Then at the end of the cycle, you neatly package together a non-controversial vote on someone. If this was once or twice, I wouldn't think much of it. However this is a pattern. Day 1 (Party vote): You support kita because you "liked one of his posts" then sheep the vote on Syllo at the very end of the day. Day 2 (Lynch vote): You call CaveJohnson scum for very little rationale, make a "case" on GoodKarma, then end up sheeping the vote on Sandro at the end of the day. Day 3-5 (Bunch of non-controversial votes on party-leaders/lynching Toad, material doesn't apply to my suspicions.) Day 6 (Lynch): You spend the entire day tunneling GoodKarma. This is the only aberration from your pattern, but tunneling a candidate who had no chance in hell of getting lynched isn't being useful by any measure. You attack risk for calling me scum. This is seemingly a strong accusation, but you are very wishy-washy on him the next day. Day 7 (Lynch): Wishy-washy on risk, you still think that GK is the scummiest candidate, build a town-case on Hopeless, then you vote risk at the very end of the day. [h] Today (Lynch): Now we're following the exact same pattern. You've voiced your opinions that GK is town and that one of Adam and Austin is scum. Yet we haven't heard anything resembling analysis on either player. We're now 2.5 hours before the deadline, and once again you're setting up for an inconsequential last-minute vote. You say I only make non-controversial votes, but when i vote GK on D6 alone you say it's not usefull to vote on a candidate who does not get lynched, so what now? You are full of confirmation bias, you don't even realise how you are contradicting yourself in your reasoning (again). Also, I've explained why my vote on Sandro was late (weekend), but you ignore it. I also explained why I switched my vote off kita (he got inactive and was not answering my question). Risk promised a case and a defense, which never came, which was why I was waiting. | ||
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On December 09 2012 06:19 Hapahauli wrote: His giant case on phagga http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=343#6852 Also, the nature of the accusations against him this game are far different than last game. He's being forced to answer for Z-Bo's night actions, which are really impossible for him to talk about. You are aware that he is rehashing a lot of your points in his case, right? | ||
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On December 09 2012 06:30 Hapahauli wrote: I think that's fair. However he's still done much more than you have so far. Two things: The reason why I vote austin is BECAUSE after working through hopes and Adams filter, I feel they are town. That may come late, but whatever. This practically only leaves austin as possible scum. If you don't like how I got to that conclusion, bad luck. It helped me nailing down the person I think is scum, this is why I played this way. Second, Austins case has no single new accusation in it. It has all been there. How can you come and say this is more than I have done when all he has done is rehashing points others brought up? I really don't see it. | ||
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On December 09 2012 06:58 austinmcc wrote: The last bit here, I must admit, is true. There are, in fact, like 2-3 times this game where phagga has volunteered some sort of read. Huzzah! In response to Hapa saying he was leaning townier on phagga, phagga volunteered that GK is still scum. He also volunteered information about VE. That what VE was doing wasn't alignment-indicative, and that he should be a vigi target. Yes, he did volunteer information there...that we should be using our KP on VE. The second post in which he volunteers information is noting that z-boson made some statements that he had to retract later. Then he got replaced. There was no deeper meaning to that (NOT A READ). He does not that he thinks I am town after replacing in. Gj! Risk's early play looks slightly townie. recently his activity has dropped. Again, not really a read...just wishy washy "this bit looks slightly townie" the end. snb and GK are scum. On the third...Prom and Hopeless shouldn't be in the party. Agrees with syllo on Prom, nothing more. As for hopeless, hopeless wants to be in the party, some people doubt hopeless1der's townieness, and there is no reason for him to want to be in the party as town. That's ... MAYBE a read? But the read is "Some people think he's scum, so he wouldn't want to be in a party as town, and since he wants to be in a party he's scum." I don't follow the logic there. If he knows he's town, and especially if he's got bonuses from being in the party, of course he wants to be in the party. Moreover, a townie could think that by being in a successful party, he has another avenue of showing he's townie. I just...these are the volunteered reads. Half of them aren't actually reads. There's no MEAT. phagga's filter is vegetarian, and very very carefully picked over. One minute there's a pile of carrots, but NOW IT'S ASPARAGUS. THE CARROTS ARE GONE AND IT'S ASPARAGUS NOW. glad to see you cared to only answer like half of it. Also glad to see that you still refuse to actually read my filter, because I clearly wrote there are other posts like that. On December 09 2012 07:04 austinmcc wrote: I am thinking about tomorrow. I am thinking about the day after tomorrow. I want to be around tomorrow, I have a reason to go to 65,000,000 BC, because between shooting Adam and checking Acro, I'd rather check Acro. On the off chance that I can check Acro before lavos pops, although that seems unlikely, I want to be able to do so. Gives us some knowledge of what we're dealing with if he does anything weird. Do you know what phagga wants to do tomorrow? Do you know what phagga wants to do the day after tomorrow? AFTER ALL THE TALK OF WHO CAN USE WHAT ABILITY ON PHAGGA FOR HIM TO COPY...THERE IS STILL NO DISCUSSION OF THAT. He's not thinking about this game's future, because he knows that if I get lynched today, he gets lynched tomorrow. I'm trying to keep playing this game. He doesn't seem interested in the future AT ALL. Why? If we're really about to summon lavos, and he's town, isn't he thinking about where he wants to fight lavos? What he wants to do this cycle? Asking someone to use not a heal but SOMETHING on him that we want against lavos? He's not doing any of that. Because he has no future in this game. I already said it would make sense to heal me, since I could pass that heal on and we would be better prepared to fight Lavos. I already explained why I acted the way i did regarding my ability and what I think is usefull and what not. If someone trusts me enough to use his ability on me to copy it, go ahead. | ||
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On December 08 2012 12:23 Oatsmaster wrote: Convincing stuff austin :D ##Unvote ##Vote: Phagga ##Travel To: Prehistory I know Oats is supposed to vote in the Voting thread, but he left his vote here. Can't you make an exception for him if he fails to vote in the voting thread in time? | ||
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On December 09 2012 07:24 Promethelax wrote: Voting Phagga, look at his post above mine. Look at that proxy voting for himself. Yeah: scum. ##Unvote ## Vote Phagga ##Epoch Antiquity I'm speechless. I just wanted to avoid that Oats gets modkilled only because he forgot to vote in the voting thread. There might be good reasons to think I'm scum, but that is not one. | ||
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On December 09 2012 07:25 Keirathi wrote: Ugh I just don't think scum would have made this post either. By pointing out the Oats vote, phagga is getting himself lynched... No, it was 8/8, and austin was on 8 first, so I think it would still have been him. That is, until Prom switched his vote. | ||
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On December 09 2012 07:29 Keirathi wrote: How often do scum self-vote themselves? I can't think of any game I've seen it besides GSL 3 when Marv hammered himself in an instant-lynch scenario. And I've seen multiple townies do it (including myself). 1.) The self-vote himself is not alignement-indicative. 2.) I honestly just wanted to avoid that one of the confirmed townies gets modkilled. I did not care that he is voting me. Important is that he is a safe value for parties, and therefore it is important that he stays in the game. Also, the modkill would have been because of an oversight of him. Also Prom, GK voted himself in this very game, in case you forgot. | ||
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If not GK, then austin, just by principle of exclusion. good luck town, I'm sorry I let you guys down. | ||
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Thanks for hosting Grey! It was awesome, even though I got a bit worn out towards the end. | ||
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On December 13 2012 09:28 Promethelax wrote: ha! I feel pretty accomplished about this game. Not only did I figure out people's role names through detective work I also realized that Toad was revived by the game mechanics and I found scum more than once. Our figuring shit out did make it hard to care about. Can't wait to see the whole set up. And you lynched me for saving a confirmed town player from being modkilled. Well done! <3 | ||
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On December 13 2012 10:00 Risen wrote: Also my play day 1 was not intentionally bad. I just tried to come up with a plan that benefited scum but looked like it benefited town. You guys saw through it easily. Thank you for hosting grey and mt, I personally loved the game. My impression at the time was that the way you backed off from your plan made you look rather townie. | ||
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On December 13 2012 10:37 Hapahauli wrote: Yeah I'm still pretty pissed at myself for that. Part of me thought that scum would have all but given up by that time in the game. On the lynch day, Austin was trying to get Phagga lynched, and Phagga wasn't too active. Made me ignore a lot of really townie things in his filter (like not understanding that SnB was claiming scum when he voted to go to AD 1999) After austins case 5 people voted me immediatly (in thread, Oats forgot it in the voting thread), that broke my spirit. I wrote that I would try to come up with some more facts, and I did indeed go through Adams and austins filter, but I was just tired and worn out to actually come up with an original case on austin. Plus the fact that some bias versus me was obvious, hence my reduced activity. After proms vote on me I was thinking "fuck it", stood up and walked away from the comp. I returned 5 minutes before deadline for a short last post. However, you are aware that your argument regarding "phagga has not done any scumhunting all game" quickly got down to "phagga has not done anything since D2" and then to "phagga has not done anyhting this cycle". That alone should have told you that you were probably a bit biased at that point. Also, regarding my general play: I still struggle to voice my thoughts properly. It's not that I just straight up forgot that I had CJ marked as scum, I actually thought about it a lot, and with time just came to the conclusion that he might be town. However, I never wrote that, hence the confusion. Trust me, stuff like that happens IRL too, my wife can tell you tales... Regarding Risens play: In hindsight I think it was very unlucky for scum that his alignement check on Acro/Hope worked out. Would he have hit two townies, he might have pushed two misslynches (one mafia more in the endgame barring nightkills, probably one town less), and more mafia players would have been around longer to deal damage. The misslynches would not have been until around N7, so he still would have gotten away as townie for a long time. And with all the shenanigans around Hapas host PMs he might have even be able to lie his way out of the misslynches? Who knows, but since he never got to be in the party and the party that he was supposed to be in failed anyway, it seems mafia could not benefit nearly as much from the fake claim as possible. Regarding z-boson, I'd like to apologize in public for my reaction to him. I still think the way he left the game was... not so cool, but my harsh reaction was uncalled for. And of course I'll still play games with him. We already PMed, so we're good I think. Somehow I was much more emotionally invested in this game than in earlier ones. I think I never had this outbreaks the same way as in this game. I hope you guys did not take offense. | ||
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On December 14 2012 07:52 Acrofales wrote: austin replaced in amazingly well. He must have put in a TON of effort to look so good. Especially when people were about ready to lynch Zbo. Getting phagga lynched over himself was a pretty crazy feat... and with 20/20 hindsight he probably saved my ass. If I had been there I would have yelled and screamed and raged at everybody to stop being idiots, but I have to admit that he probably saved me. Particularly getting the last 2 votes or so for saving a confirmed townie from a modkill. /facepalm. Nobody would have found TC ever after that totally wild claim and I am not sure I could have actually gotten phagga lynched over myself. It would definitely have been a lot harder. VE, however, replaced in after 1 cycle and while the thread was moving really fast, he should have been able to keep up better than he did. If he hadn't gotten modkilled he would almost certainly have gotten either shot or lynched. I would never, ever have suggested to lynch you. No idea what I would have done if I survived for another cycle, but it never crossed my mind to try to put the lynch on you as long as there is scum out there. I assume I would have just given up when people would have started to pile votes on me. Or tunnel GK some more. Yeah, probably that one. | ||
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On December 14 2012 10:29 Risen wrote: Lol. Yes, that's entirely likely (sarcasm). At least in my example I gave scum benefit of the doubt in a lot of things, but was realistic and hey maybe scum was that good. You just gave scum a win whenever possible and assumed horrible town play. This game town got a win whenever possible (well almost) and scum played horrible. In my example I gave scum a benefit, but didn't go overboard. In yours you just said fuck it scum gets everything they could dream of. I should have been more clear. In what way does this game play out where scum doesn't have to massively outplay town to win? How does anyone on the scum team know who the healers are, who the roleblockers are, who the trackers are? How does scum even know these roles exist? Why does any townie nameclaim? Why don't the townies being lynched nameclaim and save themselves since scum can't counterclaim without trading themselves 1 for 1? Sure you'll get the fakeclaims Grey has set up for scum in return, but no one is going to counterclaim you if you're a main character. How do you counterclaim someone like Chrono, Marle, Lucca, Frog, or Robo? What do we have to punish those name claims? 250 damage a night? Sweet. 10 cycles go by and scum has managed to get a townie killed or lynched every cycle. Is that really plausible? Even the hosts have said they didn't want people dying from KP until cycle 3 or 4, but we'll say it happened that way because of town lynching themselves. I think I'm being generous to scum when I say only 8 members of town are alive at the end and that includes Crono because once he claims there's no way he's dying and even if he does he can be resurrected. Only 5 scum members live to Lavos spawn in my new scenario. Only losing 2 scum all the way until the end of the game out of 7 members? Must be an auto-win. Just kidding. Town has 17 members. You managed to kill 6, 5 nightkills (although one was by town) and one misslynch. Imagine your fake-check works out as planed and town misslynches two times more. Imagine you coordinate night attacks a bit better and you get 7 nightkills, including a healer. Now town is already down to 7 members, Scum has 1 or 2 more players alive at the end, and that is not even considering getting someone on a successfull party for even more chaos in town. Seriously, a decent playing scum team would have been able to force 1 to 2 misslynches more, and might have gotten 2 townkills more. Sure, with 7 players vs 4 scum it still would have been hard, but saying that you are "generous to scum when I say only 8 members of town are alive" is a joke. | ||
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