EPTChrono Trigger Mafia - Page 344
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On December 08 2012 11:51 austinmcc wrote: Okay. I've taken the time to read over Phagga's filter. This is a bit bass-ackwards, because I'm already looking at him to be the scum in our unclaimed group, and so reading his early game is shaded by that. But what I get from his filter is...that he thinks goodkarma is scum. Sometimes. Most times. For a little while no, then yes again, and now no. Other than that...I pick up a couple things that should be pointed out. (1) Phagga wants scumhunting. He does not want townhunting. + Show Spoiler + On November 21 2012 16:54 phagga wrote: Ok, looks like I need to clarify myself. Townhunting is stupid. Do you know why? Because scum can fake it to no end, since they know who is not scum. Talking about who is townie makes it much easier for scum to blend in, which then makes it much harder for town to choose the right people for their teams. Yes, there may be multiple factions in this game. Still, if we force scum to scumhunt they are more likely to trip as if they can just give their townreads out. So, no, I disagree that this game revolves around townhunting. We find out who is townie by scumhunting, not by townhunting. Phagga proceeds to spend the game...not doing much scumhunting. Acro picked up on this early, but at least within Phagga's filter I don't see much of him responding to this line of questioning being continued. (2) A list of phagga's scum reads (I'm going to leave out a bunch of links, but there are very few "x is scum" and a tremendous amount of wishywashy "x might be scum, might not be scum, just saying' " posts): Drazerk, GK (but hasn't gone through filter), BioSC (based on someone else's comment it seems) - + Show Spoiler + On November 23 2012 18:05 phagga wrote: My list with reads on everyone has one person painted in bright red: CaveJohnson. That's were my vote goes for now. However, my list is not up to date. I will try to go through several filters and update it, so I might make a more definite vote before Kita has to make his prediction. People who are also red in my list: - Goodkarma, although I REALLY have to go through his filter now. Have not done that yet. - BioSC, lurking hardcore although he was very excited pregame, as someone mentioned Other people I want to look into/know more about: - Sandroba, I read his filter yesterday. I want to hear more from him and what he says about the current accusations - Hopeless1der, I have "looks shady, check filter" note on him, but I don't know why anymore. Will clear this up. ##Vote CaveJohnson Then GK definitely, after reading filter. Then GK isn't scum - + Show Spoiler + On November 26 2012 07:27 phagga wrote: Ok, I've updated my read on GK and I would no longer lynch him. When the D2 lynch came to a close, he asked people to consolidate on either sandroba or Toad. He tried to shut down any discussion that would bring in new candidates. considering that Sandro is confirmed scum and Toad is very very likely scum, I don't see the mafia motivation behind is behaviour. also, the way he acts D3 seems more pro-town than on the first day. All in all, I put GK on null for the moment. Then GK still not scum, but phagga angry with him - + Show Spoiler + On November 28 2012 20:32 phagga wrote: You have some nerve. I have not seen a single case of you this game, your filter is almost completely devoid of any scumhunting, and you go and lecture dieno on how to play? Dieno achieved something in this game that you have not yet done, he has established himself as town. That is already worth a lot for town. You may not agree with his methods of doing it, but he was one of the fastest established townies in this game. But you come in the thread regularly and have nothing better to do than to mock him. Do you think this is creating the kind of town atmosphere we need to win this game? What is the benefit for town of you calling him incompetent, bad and mocking his playstile? I don't see one. Ah, finally you make a case! Oh noes, you couldn't be arsed to make a case, instead you throw out this worthless list where you throw some dirt around with barely any explanation. Like I care. If you are too drunk to play, don't play. If you play, I don't care about your state, i will hold you responsible for your actions. This is weird. At this point, phagga has put forth 2 scumreads. (1) GK, which he has retracted. (2) Drazerk, who he didn't push, and hasn't mentioned really at all since initially saying he found Drazerk scummy. phagga is getting on GK's case about creating a good town atmosphere and about a lack of scumhunting, when he's retracted 1/2 his scumhunting and isn't doing anything with the other half Back to GK being scum, along with hopeless1der - + Show Spoiler + On November 29 2012 01:32 phagga wrote: Note that phagga never puts forth "Scummy on GK again" on his own. He's asked what he's thinking about GK after that last post, he responds that he's changed his mind and GK is scummy. BTW, hopeless1der is now scummy too, just out of nowhere1. After his behaviour today I'm rather leaning scum on him again. Reason is that his behaviour was rather disruptive imho, and that is rather scum motivated. Also, z-boson made me rethink the whole bussing-situation, and I don't feel as sure about my conclusion from last time anymore. So, leaning scum on GK. Pre-Edit: What also really bothered me was that GK was posting this huge list with 11 people on it. That's half of the remaining player base. The problem is, people are slightly bored in this game, they try too hard to find scum and start to misinterpret situations because of confirmation bias. The want to find scum so hard that they scum where none is. Syllo actually pointed this out a few pages ago, and took this as a reason to take a break IIRC. Looking at GKs list from that point of view shows how counterproductive it is to towns interest. You don't want half of the town chasing the other half of the town. You want people trying to make proper cases of one or two other people, and show how the actions of their suspects fit a mafia agenda (or how they don't). Those cases don't have to be long, but they should have a clear focus and a proper analysis. Then others can discuss it and agree or disagree, which will lead most of the times on a reasonable result. GKs list mainly spreads distrust and is therefore counterproductive. 2. I remember going over Hopeless' filter a few days ago and setting him null on my list. Then Hope came up with this strange theorie about what if Toad flips town, followed by TC saying that Acro and Hope are of opposite alignement. Then he wanted to be part of the party to show that he is town, which was a red flag for me. Since then he is marked as scum. Regarding your post, I like the point about his sentence that he will not bring any last minute shenanigans. I mean, this is what everyone expects, why does he feel he has to announce this? seems like he is missing a townie mindest. The "Bring it, bitches" is interesting because he first takes a defensive stance in his answers to TCs case, but then tries to look aggressive with that last sentence. It does not seem authentic, but I don't think it's alignement indicative. 3. I'm running out of time  I want to go through Kita's filter again, I don't like to just make comments about a person without some facts behind it. I hope to give you answer until the deadline.Which reminds me, I haven't voted yet. BRB with vote. He gets called out for not following-up Drazerk read, responds - + Show Spoiler + On November 30 2012 08:14 phagga wrote: He improved. There was no need push him anymore on D3. Also, i was absent of the thread for most of D2 (which I announced beforehand). Regarding the last post, yes, I was pretty sure at that point that he is at least not scum. However, i was overeager when I wrote that post, I should have gone into this more cautiously, not revealing that much about me. Says risk "sounds like scum," but nothing more - + Show Spoiler + On December 03 2012 17:18 phagga wrote: That post sounds like scum. you have posted almost nothing in the last 72 hours, and all you do is trying to judge a player on is claimed abilities. Hapa has posted a lot in the last few hours, why don't you comment on that? Now strongandbig scum based on syllo's tracking - + Show Spoiler + On December 03 2012 20:33 phagga wrote: @risk.nuke I also still would like to know what you think of hapa. Regarding SnB: Having two damaging abilities, him visiting Djo who is in the party is damning in any case. However, I am also confident in my scum read on Goodkarma, so I am happy to lynch either of them. For now, my vote stays on GK. Note: First time he's called out snb, really mentioned snb at all recently risk sounds like scum? So...scum, right? Nope. - + Show Spoiler + On December 04 2012 01:33 phagga wrote: z-boson/austin: I noticed that z-boson made several unclear statetements which he had to rectract later. I personally already thought that it was probably only a problem of him being busy and working in haste, which resulted in those errors. Nevertheless, I asked him about this because I wanted to see his reaction. He never replied and got replaced shortly after, which seems to confirm that he was just to busy to formulate properly, and that there is no deeper meaning to this. Austins post on risk.nuke pretty much mirrors my thoughts. I agree with his analysis that risk was playing rather protown D1, but since then his activity has gone down badly. I would like to see more from Austin to get a better picture of his alignemnet, but currently I do not think he is scum. risk.nuke: As said, his early play looks slightly townie, however recently his activity dropped hard. I would really like to hear from him why this is the case. Also, I would like to hear from him what he thinks of Hapa. @Syllo, is risk more active in the mason circle? My scum reads are snb and GK. Regarding hopeless (who I have still marked as scum): I was also looking at a series of posts that discussed Hopeless' night actions and if they add up, but I'm currently unable to find it. If anyone knows where it is, a friendly pointer would be very nice. @Acro for your spreadsheet, I was the one dealing damage to Goodkarma last night. First mention of VE in a while - + Show Spoiler + On December 04 2012 17:29 phagga wrote: Regarding VE: Being inactive on the verge of a modkill does not really say anything about his alignement. If it turns out that he is just going to post again this circle to not get modkilled, then he is mainly vigi-stuff. If he still wants to participate in this game properly, I expect him to step up his game drastically. risk scum for inactivity, 1:30 til deadline - + Show Spoiler + On December 07 2012 06:29 phagga wrote: About risk.nuke For him it is pretty much the opposite of Hope. I liked his early play as I explained earlier. However, for almost a week now he has gone silent. It was pointed out that he has not called a person scum or made a case. I asked him several times for his read on hapa and never got an answer. His recent play is worrying. He promised a defense and a case, and now, less than two hours before deadline, he has not posted it. I therefore assume he is not playing in towns interest, which warrants a lynch. About goodkarma: I wanted to update my read on him too, but did not find the time. I will do so in the next cycle, I should have a lot of time on my hand from tomorrow evening on (wife and kids are gone for a week). Since I seem to be the only one still having him marked as scum, i give him the benefit of the doubt until I have been able to go through his filter again. About the Epoch: I am happy following the majority again regarding the time we travel to. ##Unvote Lynch: Goodkarma ##Lynch: risk.nuke ##Epoch: Middle Ages And with this I'm off to bed. See you guys tomorrow. (3) His votes on confirmed scum Sandroba - + Show Spoiler + On November 25 2012 07:53 phagga wrote: Not finished with reading everything. Not feeling sure enough with Toad yet. I can agree to a Sandro lynch. His reluctance to defend himself, the way he talked about his scumreads (only mentioning names, barely any reasoning) and his lurking when under pressure are enough reasons for me to justify a vote. ##Unvote ##Vote Sandroba ***Quote tag messing up and can't seem to fix. Rest is editorializing by me*** Right before deadline. Hasn't read, sidesteps talking about toad. Is okay lynching Sandroba, but hasn't mentioned Sandroba as scum before. Toad - + Show Spoiler + On November 29 2012 09:17 phagga wrote: ##Vote Toadesstern He has mentioned toad ONCE I believe at this point. Not as scum. I know you guys had like...matching checks on him, but at this point, phagga just hasn't talked about toad AT ALL, hasn't interacted, hasn't read him, doesn't touch him ***Quote tag messing up and can't seem to fix. Rest is editorializing by me*** He has mentioned toad ONCE I believe at this point. Not as scum. I know you guys had like...matching checks on him, but at this point, phagga just hasn't talked about toad AT ALL, hasn't interacted, hasn't read him, doesn't touch him Did not vote snb risk.nuke - + Show Spoiler + On December 07 2012 06:29 phagga wrote: About risk.nuke For him it is pretty much the opposite of Hope. I liked his early play as I explained earlier. However, for almost a week now he has gone silent. It was pointed out that he has not called a person scum or made a case. I asked him several times for his read on hapa and never got an answer. His recent play is worrying. He promised a defense and a case, and now, less than two hours before deadline, he has not posted it. I therefore assume he is not playing in towns interest, which warrants a lynch. About goodkarma: I wanted to update my read on him too, but did not find the time. I will do so in the next cycle, I should have a lot of time on my hand from tomorrow evening on (wife and kids are gone for a week). Since I seem to be the only one still having him marked as scum, i give him the benefit of the doubt until I have been able to go through his filter again. About the Epoch: I am happy following the majority again regarding the time we travel to. ##Unvote Lynch: Goodkarma ##Lynch: risk.nuke ##Epoch: Middle Ages And with this I'm off to bed. See you guys tomorrow. My overall takeaway is that for someone who D1 was guns blazing "Don't townhunt, gotta scumhunt," phagga has not made good on that. In some odd ways. (1) His scumreads pop in and out of nowhere. Drazerk was scum, then he wasn't. No update, no nothing, and more or less no discussion of Drazerk for the rest of the game. GK is scum, not scum, scum. Never gives a scumread on Sandroba, just agrees and drops a vote. Never gives a scumread OR MENTIONS Toad, drops the vote. Never drops a scumread on snb. Drops a scumread on risk during the last day, prior to that one of phagga's only interactions with risk was to say a post of risk's sounded scummy but risk was town. Which is fine, that happens. But it's curious when it's basically the limit of your interaction with confirmed scum. Again, I'm coming for a point of thinking he's the scum in the group, but the malleability of his scumreads lets him do whatever he wants. Add onto that that he never seems to volunteer a read. There's always a request, and he notes that some read has changed, without ever having thought he might want to note that before needing to be asked. (2) His votes on scum as a whole lack reasoning and are almost always 11th hour. Sandroba vote is 7 minutes before deadline, and he says he hasn't read everything, seems to just be jumping on board. Toad vote is just a toad vote, nothing more, but then he backs off later in the day, worried about a pardoner. No vote on snb risk.nuke vote is 1:30 until deadline, after he was townie on risk earlier I secretly like the pardoner stuff, because I loves me some paranoia, but...his votes ALWAYS limp in on scum, bar Toad who was checked. They limp in right at deadline. There's rarely a mention of the suspect before the vote, and in risk's case, the mention was that he "sounded like scum" but was townie. So, for now : ##vote phagga We have unexplained damage. He fits the do-er of that damage better than others for me. We have very little scumhunting. We have very odd interactions with confirmed scum, and...curious votes. One thing I want to bring up though is the waiting is odd. He posts on GK all day every day, and waits to vote scum until last-minute. But he doesn't...he's not trying to save them much. Apart from risk, he's not going around calling the others townie (He had a weird spat with someone who called snb scum, saying we didn't know snb scum, but ... that whole exchange was funky and I left it out). That's the one thing I'm puzzled by, is why is he waiting until last minute but not trying to save these guys. He can't be waiting on anyone else, so I don't get the delay and the odd votes. THAT Oatsmaster, is more like a wall of text. Regarding GK: I got my doubts yesterday of him being scum because several people suddenly saw him as strong town. I tried to figure out why, and ended up confused. I never said I no longer think he is scum. My problem additionally was that I barely have any other scum read. I already said how I think about hope and you earlier. so I was sitting there, looking at the list of the remaining players and thought: "if GK is not scum, who is it then?". I did not find an answer. Regarding Toad: That guy had 2 red checks on him for over 4 real time days. Why would I want to interact with him? Why is it wrong to vote him without further reasoning when HE HAS 2 RED CHECKS ON HIM!? Regarding Sandro: I said I wanted to look into him, it was on the weekends. I wrote about my weekends, I'm sure you read that since you claim to have read my filter. I really have no interest to go back to that topic again. Regarding Risk: I said his early game looked rather townie, but in the same sentence voiced my concerns that his activity dropped off. I never called him town. Add onto that that he never seems to volunteer a read. There's always a request, and he notes that some read has changed, without ever having thought he might want to note that before needing to be asked. This is just plain wrong. Update on VE, here another update, Here why I thought prom or hope should not be on the party. There are others, you may find them in my filter if you care. | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On December 07 2012 10:40 goodkarma wrote: For what it's worth, I helped with CJ's demise too... How much damage did you do to CJ? | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
I got a bunch of people where I am pretty sure that they are town or playing in towns interest so far (Acro). Here are the ones that are left over: - Goodkarma - Hopeless1der - Austinmcc - Adam - Hapa (From all listed here, he is the least probably scum) Now, the point is, if GK is not scum (which I am slowly starting to think because of his night actions and behaviour around them, as well as the convo in the tent), then who else is? Hapa probably not, on Hope I just made an update that shows that I doubt he is scum. That leaves Adam and Austin. These are therefore the guys I am concentrating on next, so you will get more what I think of them before the deadline. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 08 2012 18:36 syllogism wrote: Austin can you tell me what happens if you are hit with mafia factional KP? Can you still counterattack? Not like you're hoping, no. Role is that I'm the Guru of Reason in those eras, and will "only attack someone that has attacked [me] before." The damage goes to "the last person to do damage to [me]." If there isn't a person that's the source, then I can't fire back. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [PURE SPECULATION] + There's still the possibility he's magus, and the way in which we dealt with the magus event determined his alignment or something like that. But I also got to thinking that it would be really interesting for Grey to make him an optional boss in the game. Did Chrono Trigger have anything like a Ruby/Emerald Weapon? Could have him be an optional, powerful boss, and IF we had killed him we'd get bonuses, but if not...maybe just no bonuses and he lives. Very unlikely that we'd have to kill something optional and be punished if not by Acro actually becoming anti-town in that case. Again, it's pure pure speculation. But it felt interesting in my head, and I'm dropping it here in case we lynch phagga, summon lavos, and Acro poofs out of the game as some optional boss. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On December 08 2012 10:25 Acrofales wrote: Hrmmm, so on N4 you used a reflection-like ability which hit SnB for 100 damage AND shot Zbo for 75? you guys should just come out and say it. There can't be more than 1 scum left (balance wise I can't see a seven man scum team with 25 people at least one of whom is 3p). The 75 damage comes from the item given to the leader of a successful party. Austin feels wrong. Gut feeling here but there we go. Syllo: how many roleclaims were in Risk's qt? I'm curious that SnB didn't fuck over GK since he knew GK's name. ## Vote Austin ## Epoch antiquity | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On December 08 2012 22:03 syllogism wrote: Only goodkarma and risk claimed and goodkarma didn't claim his name. Even if he had, SnB could only target one person per cycle and there were higher priority targets he did claim his name in the tent: 85 goodkarma 11-28-2012 02:53 PM ET (US) I've got stuff to do now, but to quickly address your questions: I am a minor character by the name of Fiona. I have forest critters that gather around my target (up to three stacks) and attack on my command... If they were to be bussed, I wouldn't know what to expect the outcome to be. I was thinking at the time that it meant 150 damage to my target, and just assumed the damage would be transferred. But now that I think about it, it could be that the damage could not be done to anyone other than CJ. Also: If you doubt I'm town, tell me who to shoot, and in three turns you'll have confirmation (two if we're talking about suboptimal dps...). That's really the only thing I can do for you here, other than asking you to go through my filter and compare it to my other games... | ||
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Adam4167
Australia1426 Posts
On December 08 2012 22:01 Promethelax wrote: you guys should just come out and say it. There can't be more than 1 scum left (balance wise I can't see a seven man scum team with 25 people at least one of whom is 3p). The 75 damage comes from the item given to the leader of a successful party. Austin feels wrong. Gut feeling here but there we go. Syllo: how many roleclaims were in Risk's qt? I'm curious that SnB didn't fuck over GK since he knew GK's name. ## Vote Austin ## Epoch antiquity By Austin feels wrong, do you mean he feels 'wrong' as in scum? Or do you mean this lynch feels wrong? | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On December 08 2012 22:34 Adam4167 wrote: By Austin feels wrong, do you mean he feels 'wrong' as in scum? Or do you mean this lynch feels wrong? wrong = scum | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On December 08 2012 17:26 syllogism wrote: Kita really you roleblocked Drazerk again? Should have made you coordinate as that's just about the worst block you could have made. Did you think he is mafia? We don't even have to kill third parties to win. lol really, you're going to complain about it post flip? The worst block? Now you're just being silly. I claimed it half way through the cycle and nobody said a word. Yes, I thought he was mafia. Do you agree that we should stop shooting this cycle? Anyone found to be leaving their homes with only a kp ability that are caught by your track get lynched? I can roleblock 2 players tonight, but I'll probably just block a single player with the cheaper ability. Blocking Acro guarantees a non-town player doesn't submit an action tonight, but I might go elsewhere. I'll let you know before the deadline so you can make your block based on that. TheChronicler, have you taken any actions since your last claim? Keirathi, as you were in two parties, what was your second ability? Are these abilities one use? Its strange that his role is so nerfed compared to everyone else. He also has the failed event to take into account. The thing about Phagga is that he has the Golem's role while claiming another character's role. The golem boss battle directly matches up with his ability, where the last attack used against him is used against your party. Phagga, could you walk me through why you never tried to abuse this role, through a claim? With a parity check, we could have cleared 4 players instead of two. You could have asked to be targeted by S&B to confirm his role. You could have increased our healing output by having someone heal yourself and then healing someone else the next cycle. What was your thought process on how you should use your role? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
what rolename do you think makes most sense for Phagga and why? | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On December 08 2012 23:22 syllogism wrote: Kita: you had already blocked drazerk on n7 and I took so much damage on n7 that it pretty much had to come from more than one source. Anyway, I'm mostly annoyed that the game is still going on even though it seems clearly that mafia can not win this. Mafia should concede I'd appreciate this. I'm not sure we would auto win in that case though. It would probably just summon Lavos early. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On December 08 2012 23:22 syllogism wrote: Kita: you had already blocked drazerk on n7 and I took so much damage on n7 that it pretty much had to come from more than one source. Anyway, I'm mostly annoyed that the game is still going on even though it seems clearly that mafia can not win this. Mafia should concede I was under the assumption that my roleblock didn't go through n7, based on the Acro's claim. Oh well. | ||
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