Secret of Evermore was solid, so I'm sure this knock-off must have been decent too
Chrono Trigger Mafia
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
austinmcc
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Secret of Evermore was solid, so I'm sure this knock-off must have been decent too | ||
austinmcc
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On November 21 2012 02:56 VisceraEyes wrote: I feel you austin. I'm an invisible replacement, so it's not empty...but it's not full (I don't think) so the company OUTSIDE the obsQT would be appreciated. /fistbump We'll make our own obs QT, with blackjack and hookers! | ||
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It's...more than a bit daunting to catch up to this game, I wasn't following it closely at the start. I've skimmed my way through a chunk of it, will be finishing up the rest and will try to point out anything that sticks out to me on a readthrough that might have fallen through the cracks. | ||
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In terms of today's actions: Slash We know that there are eventS. Therefore, I don't want to use all our MP on the very first one. Better to save it for a later event imo. Based on the game, from what everyone is saying, taking the sword MAY prevent a second portion of the fight, in which Slash is stronger? So my vote would be for A here. Rather we grab for the sword and take it away, assuming his grabbing it ends in a harder event later. Flea Don't have enough of a read on anyone to choose yet. Looks like whoever we send in first gets negatively affected. | ||
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I was hit cycle 5 for 200 damage. I was hit cycle 4 for 75 damage. From what I saw it looked like we were missing damage in some places, or didn't know roleblocks/heals. I'm not responsible for any of the missing stuff, but maybe those damage amounts fill in something. | ||
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On December 02 2012 00:23 goodkarma wrote: I still don't follow why people are going with "A" for Slash. Doesn't the wording grab for the sword have "trap" written all over it? The option doesn't say anything about actually grabbing the sword, but rather reaching for it... It may be complete speculation, but if you were to actually kill the boss you should get the sword anyway. And you wouldn't be taking such risks... Having a low-HP Dieno die fighting a boss doesn't make sense though, so leaving it to Oats is a sensible action. It sucks though that we can't make use of him now that he finally has his powered-up Masamune... ##Unvote ##Slash: "C" ##Flea: "E" Either there's a trap option or there isn't. If there is, yeah, reaching for the sword could be a trap. But "charge all at once" could be a trap as well. C sounds like it's not a trap, but limits our options for later events in the cycle. I'd rather have MP later on, and between grabbing for the sword and charging all at once, grabbing just seems like the better option based on how the fight works in the game. The fact that it could be a trap holds true for both A and B, so I don't think a possible trap is a reason to choose anything other than C, which I don't want to do on the first event of the day. Adam, no. I've skimmed things, but that's the best I could do. There's so much going on that I got lost not just in the volume but in just trying to write down who has used what on whom when and all that jazz. | ||
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##Flea "C" Still like grabbing for the sword and saving a tech attack for later in the cycle. Sending Frog early seems fine by me, if the first incarnation of flea just drains MP then hopefully there's no damage component and we can have robo for later in the cycle. | ||
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I still like using the game to inform our choices in the events, but we need to be careful not to think we KNOW that this will work out the same as the game. As to the path, would rather avoid traps. Something like "traps in the game --> xp and items" is one of the things i DON'T think will carry over. This mafia game is already incredibly complex, but that seems like going a little too far with it. So I'd rather take the path that looks like it might not hit traps, B. Magus also probably isn't 1:1 with his game version. We're basically starting on the second phase of the fight, after his barrier is down. From what I remember, healing in the fight draws things out and you probably eat a bunch of dark matters while trying to stay ahead of them with heals. But the limits of this game mean Grey (probably?) can't draw the magus fight out for a bunch of 24 hour periods, and so healing/not dying sounds better to me than trying to end the fight quickly by attacking with everything. So even though I'd probably go with B in the game itself, A sounds like a better deal within the confines of mafia. | ||
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On December 03 2012 05:15 Acrofales wrote: I overestimated my ability to read through 260 pages of mafia, let alone 260 pages in a game that was heavily themed and so there's all sorts of other stuff going on.I'm used to better from you. Your analysis in LVI impressed me enough that I pushed the scumteam to shoot you over some more renowned players. Your posts so far have been speculation about the events, which while important, are basically a distraction from the game of Mafia. This post in particular is using a lot of words to rehash what has been said already. Despite this, I realize replacing into this game must be hard. Reading 180 pages of posts is tough, but you come in with some fresh views. All I want from you at the moment is that you share some of these thoughts. Zbo was lurking badly after some rather dubious actions in the early game. You got anything other than setup speculation? Lets hear from you, a fresh perspective: what do you think of Hapa, SnB, GK, risk and anybody who struck you as looking like scum. What is your opinion of CJ and his inconsistent claims? Come out of the shadows and share your ideas! Right now I'm playing this like I did PTP3. I'm a warm body; I plan on mainly doing setup speculation when needed, just because I have no idea what's gone on before. It worked out alright there as the game progressing, but I guess I was confirmed that game so I wasn't under any suspicion. SnB has popped up a bunch recently; I'll look back through his past stuff. My gut read right now is that he's scum, but I want to see if there's anything beyond the roleclaim to go off of. Can you narrow down the other folks to one or two that you're particularly interested in? I know CJ is drazerk(yes?), but I haven't really seen much from non-SnBs in that group and would need to hit a filter or two for thoughts. | ||
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Leaning scum. Mainly based on the roleclaim, because ... that's the thing I most have to work with. Forget the rolenaming. Forget his other stupid ability that he claimed. He says: My main ability is Secrets of the Nu, which is the 250 damage/+300 max hp ability (1) SnB says he never asked Grey how this works. Other people seem to be expressing concern that he equated +max HP with "heal" without checking with Grey. Yes, that's questionable. But beyond that...SnB isn't an idiot. If that were actually SnB's ability, he would absolutely have to check with Grey, because...it frigging does 250 damage. The way it's phrased, you can't tell how the parts resolve. Does it do 250 damage to someone, and then, if they're alive, heal them/raise hp? EVEN IF SnB thought +max hp = heal, he has to ask whether he can accidentally kill someone before raising their hp. That's...crazy important. I can believe that he interpreted +max HP to be heal, but I can't believe he wouldn't ask whether both happen at once or whether he basically CPR docs someone if they're under 250 hp. (2) The wording. Grey likes flavor. Grey likes...complex roles that punish gaming the setup (roleclaims, ability claims, whatever). But Grey doesn't create stupid roles. The text of that ability just makes no sense, see (1). If it heals, it should just say "Raise targets max hp 300, heal them for 50." Ta da. It's simple. You can't misinterpret it. Your doc can't kill someone now. Gut feeling, I don't think Grey would create a role that mixed damage/possible heal for no good reason. It's much more likely that SnB has a similar ability, now has to try and find a logical fakeclaim, and so the wording comes out really garbled. Out of his filter...I don't get too much. But he's only been vocal about a couple topics. His posts are generally pretty small, but perk up on three/four topics. The party election D1 Hapahauli (Maybe toad) Phagga There's one big toad post where he votes toad, although from the looks of it toad was caught by a check. So...scumSnB would have had to do that. But he perks up towards the end of the vote D1, and we know that at least one candidate, Sandroba, was scum. So on two of the topics he's been...more wordy about, scum has been involved. I dunno about ALL of SnB's longer posts being about scum, but I could see Hapa or Phagga being scum just based on the way SnB has posted less when scum wasn't concerned. Maybe one a mislynch candidate, one a scumbuddy? I'll give them a look. | ||
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On December 03 2012 07:31 Acrofales wrote: Well, I see absolutely NO reason for town to have this ability in the first place. Scum trueclaiming is not going to happen, so all it serves is to shoot fellow townies. Raising max HP seems so utterly useless (unless we suddenly get to use a shelter/inn sometime in the game, which seems horribly unlikely) that I guess I mixed in a bit of postgame discussion there. SnB is scum for claiming an ability that has no town purpose at all. You're discounting Greymist being Greymist. I almost EXPECT him to have some roles/abilities that don't follow the normal role/alignment patterns just to mess with everyone and discourage this sort of stuff. The scumminess is the questions he SHOULD have had and asked if this were his real ability. You don't not check whether your damage can kill someone. | ||
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On December 03 2012 06:15 kitaman27 wrote: S&B's role description sounds like the standard, "punish the town for roleclaiming" role that needs to be in this game based on the fact that roleclaims are so powerful in this setup. Austin, I'd like to hear if you have any thoughts on S&B, nuke, VE and hap, or maybe just a couple of these individuals if you don't have the time. risk.nuke Early posts - mild town read. He's asking questions to the party leaders that feel like he's actually trying to make a choice. I know when I'm trying to make a choice or read someone, I often pose hypotheticals because it forces a player to really think about the game, try and solve something, and that seems harder for scum. To some extent, risk was asking questions in that vein - + Show Spoiler + On November 22 2012 00:34 risk.nuke wrote: And speaking of old opinions. Acrofales, do you still advocate sending a team containing mostly vets. If not explain which reasons made you change your mind? On November 22 2012 17:13 risk.nuke wrote: I'm not a fan of your lazy-when-I-feel-like-it strategy. It still feels like you should have your reads on why you picked your team already. It shouldn't be that much of an effort to scribble them down. What do you think of leader-candidates outside you and sandroba? (feel free to ignore kitaman) On November 22 2012 17:41 risk.nuke wrote: Sandroba, what do you think of candidates beside yourself and Syllo? If both of you were suddenly made unable to lead. Who would you vote for? When I've played with risk, I'm not used to much activity. As scum in bureaucracy I know he was just sliding by under the radar, being unnoticed. The amount of involvement concerning Sandroba pushes against that. Lots of questions posed to him about his read on alignment, and he's actually responding and trying to present a train of thought, as to when he went from town --> what seems to be slightly scummy on Sandroba. The involvement in running for leader, or at least saying he'll throw his name into the hat, also goes against that. Not sure that I like making anything out of that, but for someone who has played more games with risk, and more games with scumrisk, did he speak up much and did he speak up on the topic of scumbuddies? I'm a sucker for speculation, and risk.nuke's HP speculation reads townie to me - + Show Spoiler + [QUOTE]On November 26 2012 02:00 risk.nuke wrote: I had a townread on chronicle before that, and as I said it don't see a reason for mafia to bus toad. Look you need to start understanding the setup. We've had two cycles and nobody died. This is not the average mafia game where scum race to kill townies at night and town lynch mafia at day. We obviously have to much hp for that. Our wincondition is killing Lavos. We have too much hp for it to be just a straight transfer from the regular health system. So what is HP for? We know it's important because mafia have ability's to lower hp and we seem to have abillitys to restore it. I'm not saying people can't be killed with it but I don't think it's its main purpose. What do we know about the setup except that we need to kill lavos. It revoles around completing missions. This is addition to mafias low kp leads me to believe mafia is likely working more like saboteurs trying to fail missions to weaken the town for the upcoming battle. So what can potentially have an effect on the success of a mission. What I can think of is Hidden sucess modifers. HP. Town:Mafia ratio. Mafia abillitys. I think that in order to complete a mission the chosen group need to have a certain score and that score is determined by HP and HSM. After the second election, risk seems to slip back into what I expect from risk. Less activity, smaller posts. I saw some posts claiming internet issues, but his involvement is slipping. IF he's playing more involved as scum, I would expect that to continue after Toad got nailed and with SnB under suspicion (if SnB flips scum). If risk were going out of his way to be involved and post more than in past game, he ought to be keeping that up if the noose is tightening around his team. This point is WIFOMy, because maybe risk has just given up as his team gets caught, but based on the other things I gather from his filter, I would think if he were scum his activity wouldn't drop off NOW, and would have been lower all game. I'm missing a lot of the context of some of those posts, as well as a full idea of the case(s)(?) against him. And if anyone has played multiple games with scumrisk, it would be good to know whether he's usually vocal as scum or not, and, if possible, how he reacts as his teammates die. | ||
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On December 03 2012 12:03 Oatsmaster wrote: He hasnt even posted as much as you austin and he replaced after the like the second cycle On December 03 2012 12:04 Promethelax wrote: Do you know how many days VE has been in this game? He got to lynch Sandroba. He has been here and being a replacement doesn't cut it anymore. I don't know how long VE has been here, and that IS a good bit longer, so the thread would have been smaller. I'll give him a look along with some of the other folks tomorrow. My experience may not be applicable to his, I dunno. But I've got particular knowledge of what it's like to play this game from the replacement perspective. If there were a lot of pages already when he joined, then I could understand him being less engaged and not starting things. I'm going to quit harping on that, don't want to sit around and qq. Keirathi's right about Paranoia. VE scum there. From what I saw, he had some absences and general lack of involvement, but also didn't apologize for it. There were a couple times in the game where he responded to someone's post with comments along the lines of "I've been having those same thoughts" or "I agree with all of that." From what I recall though, he included those statements in larger posts, covering his thoughts on a couple other issues, but saying nothing more about the topic he was agreeing upon. Will grab some of those posts tomorrow if it hasn't been done by then. | ||
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As far as people who get something from a specific time we've got...Keirathi with 600 AD; Oatsmaster with 2300 AD; Adam wants 2300 AD as well. I'm down with 600 AD and doing whatever it is Keirathi needs done. Adam seems to want to shoot me (do you still want to? you're less active than me...) so I'd prefer he not get stronger, and Oats said whatever is in 2300 AD for him isn't super duper. But seriously...there are clearly BONUSES for traveling and doing events. That indicates to me that we need to be doing that, and not sitting on our hands until Lavos shows up. Related Speculation: I agree with the idea that at least one main character is reserved as a fakeclaim for scum. I think as a correlary to that, we should be expected at least one character who needs to get to a specific time period to be scum. Same reason, kind of easy for anyone who needs a time period to claim, get where they're going, and then get a free check as to whether or not anything happens. SnB's bus driver stuff is perhaps a POSSIBILITY. Sure, IF scum have something that could bus SnB or otherwise make it look like he shot djodref last night, then he's the right target to use it on. But for me it still comes back to his ability sounding wonky, and him not clearing up any of the questions he should have had concerning it. Hypothetical bus may explain the visit result, but it doesn't explain all the issues that were present before last night's actions. Still scum. ##Vote: strongandbig Can anyone who | ||
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Last sentence was the start of "Can anyone who is in the mason circle let us know if risk.nuke is speaking in there?" Someone else brought that up earlier today, and it was a good point. If his activity in game has dropped, but he's been speaking within the tent, then it's not so odd. | ||
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The only thing we DEFINITELY lose from Lavos being summoned early is more cycles. Cycles are good for lynching scum (hopefully) and traveling around, completing events Because lynches aren't reliable, traveling around is probably good for us, otherwise Lavos being summoned early wouldn't be a negative thing. That...makes sense right? | ||
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On December 04 2012 10:38 Adam4167 wrote: I meant that, apart from knowing you want(ed) to shoot me, and wanting to go to 2300 AD to perhaps shoot me harder, I don't know know anything about what you think, because you're less active than the major voices.My issue with Z-boson was not activity related, he was pushing vig shots with horrendous reasoning. You're making a lot more sense than Z-boson was, so i'm willing to look elsewhere for now. Ill probably blast VE tonight unless he makes a great case as to why I shouldn't. As are a bunch of people, but none of the others shot me, so I'm more concerned with what you're up to. | ||
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Nobody seems to want to go there, and we've got a number of other periods in which it looks like we can actually improve our chances of winning by getting items/abilities/upgrades. Maybe you're worried about 600 AD, but you're not getting support from EoT, so...propose something else? | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:41 CaveJohnson wrote: TO THE PRESENT! I can't believe that with the amount of fun you have messing with people and themed games that you just don't want to go to 600 AD because it could be dangerous, and don't have anywhere else you'd like to go besides EoT. It's clear there isn't town support for EoT. It's clear there IS support for 600 AD. If you really, really didn't want to go there, but didn't have anything waiting for you in EoT, I'd expect you to be able to come up with at least a dumb argument as to where else you wanted to go, either based on what people are claiming within the mafia game or based on CT itself. | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:50 Promethelax wrote: Austin, you got anything else to add besides finding Draz to be crazy? Also there was some town support for EoT (note, my previous vote). How are you so sure that no one is town and voting EoT? Yes. I guess after resolution period though now. | ||
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On December 05 2012 09:25 Keirathi wrote: One thing that is worrying me about drazerk: In every single game, no matter if they are town/town or scum/town, draz and S&B yell at each other and fight because they HATE each other. There was none of that this game? Certainly not on par with Aperture, where they were voting each other because each should be able to read the other's mind at all times. Prom, you asked me about Drazerk/EoT. I don't think there was NO town support, I was hyperbolic if I phrased it like that. I promise I can read votes. But there were far more claims from people that 600 and 1000 AD were important for them. I want to hit those time periods rather than EoT for the reasons I've stated before: (1) get whatever needs getting; (2) metagaming Grey's setups, assuming staying in one place = less useful for us; (3) metagaming Grey's setups, suspicion that SOME of the players claiming an interaction with a time period are scum. The more players that need a time period, the more I think we should be headed there. As far as I can tell, we can fail some events even without scum in the party (magus had an all-town party from what I can see). So I'd rather make sure we get things done in those areas, get people their stuff, and then EoT is fine once there's more need to go there than to another era. There's a chance we can't just zip era to era each cycle if we fail an event somehow. I'm still curious about past risk.nuke scum games. In bureaucracy, he was just absent forever. In this game, he was at least around early and posting more than I'm used to seeing him post. With VE mafia, if risk.nuke was mafia that would mean that most/all the mafia team basically went dark after Toad died - snb posted a little but not much, VE not at all, risk not much. I'd like to BELIEVE that if risk were mafia, he wouldn't do that, and would actually try to ... do something. I've seen him be quiet/mostly missing/etc. But for the entire game, not partway through. And the way his activity has dropped off, just based on this bit, leads me to believe that he's not mafia. | ||
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If he's done that, then I'm on board. | ||
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On December 05 2012 09:54 Acrofales wrote: ACME. Read the postgame. I thought he was fading out because we lynched two of his team mates. He was fading out because he thought scum knew who he was and he thought he had lost even if he managed to keep town off his back. It's not that he is ever particularly active, but in GoT mafia and DFM2 (games I played with town risk.nuke) he was active and posting ideas fairly consistently: it was clear he was reading the thread. This game I don't get that impression from him at all past D3 (basically when we caught Toad). Alright, gonna give that a read. | ||
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Found this informative as I'm reading through: Prehistory - Azala/Black Tyranno (Unknown) Magus, given that you can pick him up as a party member or not, sounds like it's something Grey could work with. Either as a traitor, 3rd party, something. And we failed the Magus event. Has anyone namechecked Drazerk and Acro? Stuff like magus being ripe for flavor in this game + us failing the event + 'hai guyz i got a bunch of magical powerz' gives me a bad feelingAntiquity - Queen Zeal (Toad) OR* Dalton (unknown) *see below Middle Ages - Magus??? (Unknown) Present Day - Norstein Bekkler (VisceraEyes/BioSC) Future - Mother Brain (Unknown) End Of Time - Spekkio (sandroba) Black Omen - Queen Zeal (Toad) Not specified - Nu (strongandbig) | ||
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On December 05 2012 09:35 Acrofales wrote: Okay, scanned Acme and the obs there. You had me believing risk was actually mafia that game, but instead he's SK. He didn't have a team. Moreover, you're trying to equate "risk is a one-man faction and feels he can't win the game" to "risk has teammates that are afk/caught and feels he can't win the game." Those are different things. Couple thoughts from that:Btw, my main problem with risk is that he is doing the same as last game: when he feels he/his team cannot win anymore he just afks out. A town risk.nuke would be more active and in your face. At the very least, he would be up in my face. He's not. Ergo, he is scum who has given up. (1) in bureaucracy risk's team got NAILED towards the end. I intercepted a pm that was pretty clearly TO risk and pretty clearly FROM Gonzaw when we had 3 scum players left, and 20,000 townies. (2) they were absolutely dead-to-rights caught, and the third scum player was partially visible and partially never ever posting anything and iirc was modkillable at a point or two, but didn't get the axe risk didn't do much lategame there, but he didn't do much throughout. He didn't have a dropoff in activity once his team got caught, he was inactive from the start. I think that, unless I see a game where risk afks out as mafia, then his weird drop-off in activity points towards him being town for me. Don't think that a game as an SK is a great comparison. | ||
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On December 05 2012 11:30 Hapahauli wrote: I don't have oodles to go on here. The pattern of activity is something that points towards town. The fact that we have a single mason, not a bunch (unlike mad men), feels odd if you assign that to scum. The ability to damage folks in QT DOES look scummy, but as far as I can tell, he didn't use it? I've got a previous post where I look him over, and the activity change was something I actively asked about, whether he'd played a game as mafia like that.@austin This is a pretty suspect way of thinking here. Just because risk hasn't late-game lurked as mafia doesn't mean he's incapable of doing it as mafia. Secondly, having a town read on someone based on late-game lurking just seems suspect in general. No. Activity fluctuations =/= townie. But the way he seemed actively concerned with the D1 election, was asking each candidate questions, actually trying to see what they were doing, when we know sandro was scum, feels townie. The activity was a lingering doubt, but if it doesn't point to scumrisk, actually point there, THIS IS SCUMRISK, then I'm inclined to believe overall that he's town. | ||
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On December 05 2012 12:18 iamperfection wrote: SPECULATION!? ON ASSORTED HYPOTHETICAL SITUATIONS!? INVOLVING ACRO!?someone help me speculate. Only 1 more scum? Also if we lynch the final scum and get another lynch before the lavos what do we do. Do we have to betray are good friend acro and the other possible 3rd party guys? On November 19 2012 09:43 GreYMisT wrote: Reading through Acro's filter has me worried. The fact that we don't have to finish off all non-town factions, just red mafia, for lavos to be summoned early has me worried (which is harder to explain, more weird).Factions and win conditions If all mafia die, Lavos will be summoned immediately. Town: Defeat Lavos. Mafia: Kill ALL town and have 1 mafia left alive Third Party: you thought i was going to tell you? haha. I get all the normal feelings that "good friend Acro" is lying about being a 3P survivor, friendly to town, with boatloads of HP so please don't bother trying to kill me, plus I don't even know what I do but use my abilities anyway. If anyone believes that, quit being dumb. But what bits of that you don't believe are important. First impressions of Acro's filter actually strike me like he's toying with Drazerk, and to a lesser extent Kita. I'll be more specific tomorrow, but...there's a lot in there that I don't like. He says he's being hunted by someone, like he's a survivor and has to avoid a specific other 3P, but he does so while outing himself as the guy that's being hunted. He seems to believe Drazerk is some other 3P, but DOESN'T seem to be worried that Drazerk may be trying to kill him if his hunter is 3P as well (some kind of assassin role looking for Acro). From the way that Acro/Drazerk interact, I get the feeling they're actually on a faction together. That a third party isn't a person, it's an actual faction. Something about their banter, the way they both claim to have boatloads of abilities, Acro doing a decent amount of checking of Drazerk's hp, what's happened to Drazerk, who shot Drazerk and when, etc. without seeming to actually be afraid that Drazerk is hunting him (Lots of concern for another player while being a claimed third party and not seeming to be AFRAID of the, why so much interest?). Then there's jut minor Acro stuff. He's one of the people showing more interest than most in sorting everything out. Who used what action when, on whom. Where was this heal. Who caused this damage. Etc. etc. As scum in Aperture 2, I was biiiiiiiiiiiig on that. With a themed game, complex roles, and not knowing everything that could happen (and ESPECIALLY when dealing with protective roles - heals, the rollback here, shields, whatever), as scum in that game we had to figure out what everyone could do and when they'd done it. If you're town, you want to figure things out, but you can't really trust everyone else. If you're scum, you can often trust townies are telling the truth, and you need to piece together everything you can to aim shots/avoid protections. Acro's interest in unexplained damage/heals make me think of that. Being a difficult to kill survivor and just claiming it so early doesn't seem right. But I could absolutely see an Acro/Drazerk and possibly Kita faction, that isn't friendly but isn't red scum. I want to read Drazerk and Kita tomorrow to see if they feel like they fit in that or not, but Acro just has these weird interactions with them. I get a gut read that I don't want to get to lavos without having flipped Acro and/or Drazerk. | ||
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If multiple people hit me in the same cycle, it's split amongst them.
Cycle 6 I shielded Syllo. Didn't know everyone's health values, dienosaur was dead before the end of cycle, and out of the people that were being treated as confirmed town, syllo seemed the strongest player to me. Cycle 7 I didn't do anything. Considered counterattacking Adam, making sure he was responsible for the damage on me like he claimed, but nobody counterclaimed the damage. Adam said he wasn't going to keep shooting me, so I figured best not to hit him. One reason I prefer cycles where a lot of people have items/abilities/something waiting for them is that those are the cycles that are useful. I guess I can use End of Time to check a player's HP or two, make sure they're not lying, but otherwise healing/shielding sounds way more useful than an HP check. Especially given that now it's kind of telegraphed. | ||
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On December 06 2012 02:12 syllogism wrote: Can you check what z-boson did during the earlier cycles Yeah. | ||
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Cycle 1 - shield Hapa Cycle 2 - shield Keirathi Cycle 3 - did nothing Cycle 4 - hp check on Dienosaur, 1 hp Cycle 5 - nothing Shields are persistant. | ||
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I specifically did NOT counterattack adam even though I could have, and he's worried about how it interacts with scum KP. Acro I just don't trust, but that's the ability. 300/x damage, where x is the number of players who most recently damaged me. I can't aim it, only know where it's headed if all the damage on me is claimed. | ||
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On December 06 2012 02:43 Adam4167 wrote: Your damn right I want to know how it interacts with scum KP. Because if it doesn't interact with scum KP, its nigh on useless to a town player, but really handy for a scum player. How could you counterattack me in cycle 7 when I shot you after toads lynch in cycle 5? I call it counterattack because that's basically what it does, but it doesn't require the same cycle, and it's not actually "Counterattack". If I use that ability, it just looks at the last point at which I was dealt damage, and then splits my damage between all players who dealt me damage at that point. Until I'm damaged otherwise, you'd be eating the full 300 if you're being truthful about being the sole source of damage on me that night, as I haven't been hit since then. | ||
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On December 06 2012 03:23 Acrofales wrote: The point of my claim was so you guys could use the claimed abilities when trying to solve the game, not so you can indulge in pointless speculating about my name, which will get you nowhere as I won't confirm or deny anything. So the point was that you, who are almost certainly lying about AT LEAST one aspect of your role, could claim what you did, some/most of which you'd already claimed in thread. | ||
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On December 06 2012 02:42 kitaman27 wrote: I guess we have oodles of claimed roleblocks, so it makes sense there would be so many in the game, but having 3 and a sometimes 4th town-side if Drazerk were to be town is...a lot.I can account for the missing roleblocks. I didn't claim it earlier because I felt there was little reason to at the time with the lynches already decided. I couldn't rb night one, night two I was on nuke, three and four I was on toad, five and seven on cave, and six on VE. Just because the roleblock on risk is accounted for, doesn't mean that he is clear. I've already brought up the over enthusiastic town read on sandroba day one and how he shows a contradiction in logic when defending GK for shooting Cave, yet providing a scum read on myself who also shot cave. The use of his role is silly from a town perspective and he provides very few opinions. That being said...town having 3 roleblockers, compared to the single roleblocker flip from the scum team is quite strange...especially considering sandroba couldn't roleblock every cycle and there are so many blues the mafia has to deal with. We know Cave has a roleblocking ability that he claims is a jail. I have a town read on syllo and a slightly weaker town read on prom (mainly due to the strength of his role). Cave, I'm quite disappointed that you decided to pass on the opportunity to provide us with 16 fake claims in the same post. You have a reputation to uphold! The way they're different does match up to the claimed healing abilities though, as far as rb/tracker, the seed thing, what appears to be a claim of just "roleblocker" from you without restrictions. seems similar to heal vs. fire protect vs. shield vs. whatever else we have. Why didn't you claim the risk roleblock earlier? Were you just withholding it or did you specifically want to make risk's claim look fake? | ||
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On December 06 2012 04:31 Acrofales wrote: What is it you're trying to say? I have a hard time figuring out what you're accusing me of here. PS. I am not lying. I'm trying to figure out what part of your stuff this game I don't believe. I know some of it is likely true, other bits false. Haven't checked Drazerk and Kita's full filters yet after looking through yours, but will work on that this evening. Yeah, I'm not accusing you of anything specific there, because...I don't know what to accuse you of yet. But you make it out like you did town this big favor by claiming where you'd used your actions so "you guys" can "solve the game." When in all likelihood, that's crap. A lot/all(?) your actions were in thread already, so you weren't handing down divine information that nobody knew. And you refuse to answer questions that town wants answered. I don't think anyone is buying what you're selling, but I don't like that you're trying to sell it anyway. | ||
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As to Z-Boson's actions, I can't give you anything there. Can't tell you why he targeted who he targeted when, but I'm assuming the later cycles he just wasn't around. | ||
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The heal I can do. Can heal a specific target, but I'd prefer to heal someone who has taken damage and is confirmed or as-near-as-can-be-confirmed town, without giving out the name. Given that we don't know the entirety of what's out there, and seeing as it looks like I'm a nice, juicy, mislynch candidate, I don't exactly want to say "I'm healing x" and open up the possibility of someone having the ability to mess with my target. As long as nobody is healing the target, they've taken damage, and they confirm the heal, it's the same effect but with less chance of being interefered with. | ||
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On December 06 2012 06:24 Promethelax wrote: At least one person in this game keeps hinting that he doesn't think I actually can do what I've claimed:yeah, SnB's 250 damage was pretty confirmable too... On December 06 2012 02:30 Acrofales wrote: Wait. Your counterattack also sounds insane. Adam claimed he damaged you in N5. You are claiming you could counterattack him in N7. Please explain this ability a LOT better. 300 damage is also far more than anybody except Drazerk has claimed he can do (oh, and H1, but he has to hit himself before he can shoot). On December 06 2012 05:33 Acrofales wrote: And yes, I know that it cannot be a scum ability. I am just wondering whether it can be an ability at all. I don't need to prove it to acro, but if other people have doubts and I need to resolve them, I can. Would prefer to sit on it though and only use if I take damage and no town source claims it. It's also one reason I'll claim my abilities and role, but not my current HP, so that scum can't know whether I can be taken out within a single cycle. | ||
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On December 06 2012 07:13 syllogism wrote: I didn't shield you last cycle. Last cycle was antiquity, and I can only use my counterattack thing in that era. Last cycle I did nothing.If austin truly shielded me last cycle, I took 525 damage which seems rather absurd given that there was only one or two mafia still alive. Even during the early cycles mafia never inflicted this much damage and they had S&B's 250 damage hit at their disposal. Difficult to explain how they could have achieved that unless risk is mafia or a third party or two participated in the attack. I guess it's possible that they had double actions due to time period bonus or some ability. Lynch occurs before other actions are processed, so S&B definitely didn't use his action on me. On December 06 2012 07:17 Hopeless1der wrote: This era is heal or shield. As long as we stay in 600 or 1000, that's what I have. Okay well the ball's in austin's court anyways. @austin This era's ability is already locked in as a heal/shield right? If we went to EoT, you would NOT end up using an HP check, correct? | ||
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On December 06 2012 07:35 iamperfection wrote: (1) awwww, you're gonna make me blushaustin your stronger than me why is that? (2) do you even lift, bro? (3) I don't know, you'd have to ask Grey (I assume he won't answer) Best guess would be that I can only heal in 2/6 of eras. And if we fight lavos in 1999, then I apparently can't heal or shield or anything during that event, if it's multicycle and only in 1999. | ||
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Middles ages is fine with me. Staying within the 600/1000 band is where I'm most useful, although I don't have anything specific mentioning a rainbow shell or helping to craft anything. ##Lynch: risk.nuke ##Epoch: 600 AD | ||
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I don't particularly want to chance that someone can mess with my target by knowing who it is. | ||
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Search doesn't seem to want to pull it up in your filter but I thought I remembered at least something before this last cycle. | ||
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I used my heal on iamperfection. Should have healed 150, or topped you off, not 100% sure how much you were missing. Figured he was a good candidate because: healer, got hit with a roleblock and some damage, posts generally make sense, seems to be thinking about ye olde endgame (as this game appears to have more to it than just eliminating scum faction), scum seems intent on killing syllogism so he hopefully doesn't die overnight. Plus the whole maybe he was out of juice because of low hp bit. | ||
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On December 07 2012 10:11 Oatsmaster wrote: I AM THE KILLER :D I didnt get damaged in any way, shape or form. <3 Clarity :D Scum possibilities are Z-bo+Austin Hopeless Phagga Adam Right? To be clear, you're claiming that you killed Drazerk? | ||
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On December 07 2012 23:33 Acrofales wrote: 150 damage from risk and 300 from Austin makes sense. However, that would assume Austin can target whoever he likes (in antiquity at least). Yes, but I can't. (1) A 300 damage nuke with no restrictions doesn't make sense given what we've seen (Adam gets 200 from guessing, SnB had 250 from knowing a name, risk had some but had to mason the person). (2) Are there any other instances of 300 unclaimed damage? If not, then, assuming I'm scum, why would I only just now have hit someone with that ability? | ||
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I shielded syllo when I joined because I was in over my head and didn't know who had taken damage and who was townie. Shielding someone who it looked like was agreed upon as proven to be town made sense. | ||
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On December 08 2012 00:00 Acrofales wrote: Ugh. I go to find another cycle you guys were there before I joined and there wasn't any nuke...but the only cycle that happened in Z-BosoN was MIA so it doesn't show anything.Only usable in Antiquity? It's plausible. So my second point isn't what I want it to be. | ||
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On December 08 2012 00:47 iamperfection wrote: wasn't me on N2, just last night. yeah who healed me or who caused me to get healed | ||
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On December 08 2012 00:58 Acrofales wrote: Any townies want to claim that damage or some of that damage? Z-BosoN didn't take an action Cycle 3.Yeah, I thought of this. You claimed future you could nuke and didn't on N3. Problem is that that is the night Marv died, which took a minimum of 550 KP. Toad was roleblocked, Marv was not in risk's chatroom and I find it highly unlikely that SnB managed to guess Marv's name. That leaves whatever abilities the final scummer has + factional KP. | ||
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On December 08 2012 01:11 Acrofales wrote: Will go look at the other possibilities. Lets take a different approach. If you are not scum, then who is? Seriously though, someone claim that damage? | ||
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On December 08 2012 01:30 Promethelax wrote: are you asking for the scum to claim their shot? I know I didn't hit marv. I know that, from looking at the cycle posts, it doesn't seem like people have been getting BLOWN UP. I know syllo got hit for a chunk a few nights back, but there have been a lot of cycles without a death. We know marv wasn't in risk's tent. I didn't see anything where snb would know marv's name. That takes out two big sources of scum damage, yet marv took a boatload. So I'm assuming SOME of that damage came from a town source, because it wasn't me, and that sounds like too much damage to be just scum given the KP we've seen from them. | ||
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On December 08 2012 01:47 syllogism wrote: I can't help you with what Z-BosoN did.This applies to a lot of people in the game, but if you are town and want to have other townies believe you are town, it would be helpful if you thought about your role and how you can get most of out of your role. This generally means not role claiming for no reason, not using inferior abilities (75 hp shielding vs 150 hp healing), not forgetting to send in actions and not using abilities that are inherently anti-town (flamethrower in most circumstances). I think you can look at my actions last night and see that I was actually doing this, however. I chose a target based on decent reasons, and it may have paid off if I'm responsible for iamperfection's bonuses. Don't know if it's the time period or the heal. And whether you believe me or not, I think "maybe I should fire off a 300 nuke when I don't quite know what's going on yet" is also actually considering my role and thinking about what I was doing. I know that you're not only talking to me here. | ||
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On December 08 2012 02:01 syllogism wrote: I don't know if you have a 300 nuke. Can you try to explain why you thought using a 75 hp shield is better than a 150 hp heal? I realize that claiming the role you did as mafia makes very little sense, but then again S&B managed to claim something that is even more damning. It also makes sense to me for mafia to have some sort of hp checking ability and none of the flipped mafia roles had any. I also can't explain how Prom took 25 damage when I hit him for 75, unless someone messed with the damage (shielding?). I used the shield on you because I had recently joined the game and had almost NO concept of everything that had happened. I still don't. You seemed generally accepted as town, and I know you've got some clout as a vet/scumhunter/etc. I didn't know if you'd taken damage or not, and was stretched a little thin, so I just threw the shield on you. 75 guaranteed shield better than some unknown amount of healing in my mind. | ||
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For right now, I took a peek at my fellow candidates' claims. Quicker than filters, maybe something there. We've got some nights with KP unaccounted for - looks like Marv getting hit for a bunch, the amount that Syllo took a few nights back (if risk hit syllo, that's still a lot of damage leftover). So I'm more inclined to believe that the remaining scum has KP available, since I'm not the source of the unknown KP. Add to that the small amounts of KP from the first couple days, for which we also don't have a source. Out of the claims of me/hopeless1der/phagga/adam/goodkarma (which seems to be the list of people that aren't yet confirmed), I claimed conditional kp Hopeless1der claimed kp phagga claimed to copy something random (potentially kp if used on him) adam claimed kp goodkarma claimed kp So that...doesn't help at all. Out of just the roles and actions, without looking through filters yet, I'm most suspicious of the claims that could result in variable damage. Adam shot me, but I took the amount of damage he claims he can deal, and even though his claim means that he's more or less unaccounted for most nights ("Guessed wrong, didn't get a shot"), the flavor of his role feels like a nice counterbalance to snb's role. snb punishes roleclaiming as town. Adam has the potential to punish scum hitting the obvious townies. It's not a 1:1 comparison, but it's a sort of balancing element that I could see in this game. So while Adam has been the least visible to me, his role is the one I trust the most, excluding everything else. Because we've got swings in the amount of damage we should be seeing though, I'm more worried about the others. Hopeless's claim, to some extent, checks out based on the damage he and others have claimed. I'd like to stay alive and check his HP in one of the later periods. If we get there, and he tells me his max, I can check to see whether or not he's taken the damage he says he has. We match up the damage he says he's taken against the damage others have claimed that he says he's responsible, and we can somewhat verify his claim. To the extent we can somewhat verify his claim, we can pretty much conclude he's not responsible for ALL the damage that's unaccounted for, because it seems a little too much for him to try and game the math, claim a max hp that works out, have everyone take the damage he claims, etc. So his claim feels more...verifiable, although that relies on him being truthful. Saying he can act every other night allows him to use something else on the other nights, so I need to check and see whether the in-between-vigi nights are the ones where we have KP missing. Then phagga, who claimed to copy random abilities. This is another ability that we could test, but it seems like ALL the abilities are testable at this point, to some extent. Just right off the bat though, this feels like the weakest of the claims to me because of the variety of roles we have. I'd like to hear more about his copy abilities. If kita uses something on phagga, does phagga copy it despite not having MP? If snb attacked phagga, does phagga have to guess someone's name or not (and if he does, then he not only copies abilities but also has the potential to learn the restrictions of any ability used on him, which feels odd)? If phagga is the secondary or tertiary target of flamethrower, does he still get to copy that, since it wasn't used ON him? For GK, he claimed a 150 dmg shot on Drazerk on the night Drazerk claimed 201 damage. That matches up with kita doing 50 and snb claiming 1. Since snb had the power to do 1 damage, I don't think he was lying about that, as otherwise that's a very odd number for us to end up at, and the math works if all claims are true. That, in my mind, clears GK. If he shot Drazerk, then he can't be responsible for the damage that marv took that night. If he shot marv, then we've got KP missing from drazerk. So on claims, I feel like...GK actually comes out towniest? He's got damage but if we try to use his damage to explain missing damage it doesn't work. Phagga looks the worst to me, just because it seems like another one of those "partially true, fakeclaimed, but not thought out fully" claims. Similar to snb's, where he hadn't asked the questions he should have asked. | ||
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I still have a hard time believing ANYONE who claims "I'm just an innocent old 3P survivor that's tough to kill, don't mind me" is telling the truth, especially with all the other stuff he made up, but there are bigger concerns now. Kita's claim fills in chrono, who probably shouldn't be missing from CT mafia. It also, to some extent, offers a counterpoint to Toad. If Toad could summon lavos early with party failures, makes some sense to counterbalance that by rewarding town for party successes by boosting Chrono. That dynamic feels good in my head. | ||
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On December 08 2012 09:10 Oatsmaster wrote: ##Vote: Austinmcc What was the bullshit wall of text you just posted? You want to get lynched? Actually, no. I'd prefer not to. That's me looking at a short list of options and trying to figure out who's the remaining scum. We've got missing KP. Almost all the remaining options have it. But some don't fit the bill. | ||
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On December 08 2012 09:18 Promethelax wrote: Austin: can you comment on Phagga defense please. Who is it that you think is scum based on their play? Or what you remember of it. Please make a case on someone based around play instead of role. Thanks. Working on that. Was dealing with another lynch, had some time to spare and got that part of things down. | ||
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But I'm going to do what I can. | ||
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On December 08 2012 09:33 Oatsmaster wrote: Not going to tell you. Well if austin can write a long post about 4 people, he can write a really long post for the person that he thinks is scum. You have never played with me in a game that I start, I take it? | ||
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On December 08 2012 09:36 Oatsmaster wrote: Austin, who would you lynch and why? Short answer is fine. No I have never played a game with you. Based on what I've got last page, Phagga. I know I'm not scum, and right now out of the folks that we're not sure on, he's the best fit. If you want more, hold your horses. I think that post makes pretty clear who I'd lynch at this point, but I'm checking filters and phagga's recent posts especially before I drop a vote. | ||
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But what I get from his filter is...that he thinks goodkarma is scum. Sometimes. Most times. For a little while no, then yes again, and now no. Other than that...I pick up a couple things that should be pointed out. (1) Phagga wants scumhunting. He does not want townhunting. + Show Spoiler + On November 21 2012 16:54 phagga wrote: Ok, looks like I need to clarify myself. Townhunting is stupid. Do you know why? Because scum can fake it to no end, since they know who is not scum. Talking about who is townie makes it much easier for scum to blend in, which then makes it much harder for town to choose the right people for their teams. Yes, there may be multiple factions in this game. Still, if we force scum to scumhunt they are more likely to trip as if they can just give their townreads out. So, no, I disagree that this game revolves around townhunting. We find out who is townie by scumhunting, not by townhunting. Phagga proceeds to spend the game...not doing much scumhunting. Acro picked up on this early, but at least within Phagga's filter I don't see much of him responding to this line of questioning being continued. (2) A list of phagga's scum reads (I'm going to leave out a bunch of links, but there are very few "x is scum" and a tremendous amount of wishywashy "x might be scum, might not be scum, just saying' " posts): Drazerk, GK (but hasn't gone through filter), BioSC (based on someone else's comment it seems) - + Show Spoiler + On November 23 2012 18:05 phagga wrote: My list with reads on everyone has one person painted in bright red: CaveJohnson. That's were my vote goes for now. However, my list is not up to date. I will try to go through several filters and update it, so I might make a more definite vote before Kita has to make his prediction. People who are also red in my list: - Goodkarma, although I REALLY have to go through his filter now. Have not done that yet. - BioSC, lurking hardcore although he was very excited pregame, as someone mentioned Other people I want to look into/know more about: - Sandroba, I read his filter yesterday. I want to hear more from him and what he says about the current accusations - Hopeless1der, I have "looks shady, check filter" note on him, but I don't know why anymore. Will clear this up. ##Vote CaveJohnson Then GK definitely, after reading filter. Then GK isn't scum - + Show Spoiler + On November 26 2012 07:27 phagga wrote: Ok, I've updated my read on GK and I would no longer lynch him. When the D2 lynch came to a close, he asked people to consolidate on either sandroba or Toad. He tried to shut down any discussion that would bring in new candidates. considering that Sandro is confirmed scum and Toad is very very likely scum, I don't see the mafia motivation behind is behaviour. also, the way he acts D3 seems more pro-town than on the first day. All in all, I put GK on null for the moment. Then GK still not scum, but phagga angry with him - + Show Spoiler + On November 28 2012 20:32 phagga wrote: You have some nerve. I have not seen a single case of you this game, your filter is almost completely devoid of any scumhunting, and you go and lecture dieno on how to play? Dieno achieved something in this game that you have not yet done, he has established himself as town. That is already worth a lot for town. You may not agree with his methods of doing it, but he was one of the fastest established townies in this game. But you come in the thread regularly and have nothing better to do than to mock him. Do you think this is creating the kind of town atmosphere we need to win this game? What is the benefit for town of you calling him incompetent, bad and mocking his playstile? I don't see one. Ah, finally you make a case! Oh noes, you couldn't be arsed to make a case, instead you throw out this worthless list where you throw some dirt around with barely any explanation. Like I care. If you are too drunk to play, don't play. If you play, I don't care about your state, i will hold you responsible for your actions. This is weird. At this point, phagga has put forth 2 scumreads. (1) GK, which he has retracted. (2) Drazerk, who he didn't push, and hasn't mentioned really at all since initially saying he found Drazerk scummy. phagga is getting on GK's case about creating a good town atmosphere and about a lack of scumhunting, when he's retracted 1/2 his scumhunting and isn't doing anything with the other half Back to GK being scum, along with hopeless1der - + Show Spoiler + On November 29 2012 01:32 phagga wrote: Note that phagga never puts forth "Scummy on GK again" on his own. He's asked what he's thinking about GK after that last post, he responds that he's changed his mind and GK is scummy. BTW, hopeless1der is now scummy too, just out of nowhere1. After his behaviour today I'm rather leaning scum on him again. Reason is that his behaviour was rather disruptive imho, and that is rather scum motivated. Also, z-boson made me rethink the whole bussing-situation, and I don't feel as sure about my conclusion from last time anymore. So, leaning scum on GK. Pre-Edit: What also really bothered me was that GK was posting this huge list with 11 people on it. That's half of the remaining player base. The problem is, people are slightly bored in this game, they try too hard to find scum and start to misinterpret situations because of confirmation bias. The want to find scum so hard that they scum where none is. Syllo actually pointed this out a few pages ago, and took this as a reason to take a break IIRC. Looking at GKs list from that point of view shows how counterproductive it is to towns interest. You don't want half of the town chasing the other half of the town. You want people trying to make proper cases of one or two other people, and show how the actions of their suspects fit a mafia agenda (or how they don't). Those cases don't have to be long, but they should have a clear focus and a proper analysis. Then others can discuss it and agree or disagree, which will lead most of the times on a reasonable result. GKs list mainly spreads distrust and is therefore counterproductive. 2. I remember going over Hopeless' filter a few days ago and setting him null on my list. Then Hope came up with this strange theorie about what if Toad flips town, followed by TC saying that Acro and Hope are of opposite alignement. Then he wanted to be part of the party to show that he is town, which was a red flag for me. Since then he is marked as scum. Regarding your post, I like the point about his sentence that he will not bring any last minute shenanigans. I mean, this is what everyone expects, why does he feel he has to announce this? seems like he is missing a townie mindest. The "Bring it, bitches" is interesting because he first takes a defensive stance in his answers to TCs case, but then tries to look aggressive with that last sentence. It does not seem authentic, but I don't think it's alignement indicative. 3. I'm running out of time I want to go through Kita's filter again, I don't like to just make comments about a person without some facts behind it. I hope to give you answer until the deadline. Which reminds me, I haven't voted yet. BRB with vote. He gets called out for not following-up Drazerk read, responds - + Show Spoiler + On November 30 2012 08:14 phagga wrote: He improved. There was no need push him anymore on D3. Also, i was absent of the thread for most of D2 (which I announced beforehand). Regarding the last post, yes, I was pretty sure at that point that he is at least not scum. However, i was overeager when I wrote that post, I should have gone into this more cautiously, not revealing that much about me. Says risk "sounds like scum," but nothing more - + Show Spoiler + On December 03 2012 17:18 phagga wrote: That post sounds like scum. you have posted almost nothing in the last 72 hours, and all you do is trying to judge a player on is claimed abilities. Hapa has posted a lot in the last few hours, why don't you comment on that? Now strongandbig scum based on syllo's tracking - + Show Spoiler + On December 03 2012 20:33 phagga wrote: @risk.nuke I also still would like to know what you think of hapa. Regarding SnB: Having two damaging abilities, him visiting Djo who is in the party is damning in any case. However, I am also confident in my scum read on Goodkarma, so I am happy to lynch either of them. For now, my vote stays on GK. Note: First time he's called out snb, really mentioned snb at all recently risk sounds like scum? So...scum, right? Nope. - + Show Spoiler + On December 04 2012 01:33 phagga wrote: z-boson/austin: I noticed that z-boson made several unclear statetements which he had to rectract later. I personally already thought that it was probably only a problem of him being busy and working in haste, which resulted in those errors. Nevertheless, I asked him about this because I wanted to see his reaction. He never replied and got replaced shortly after, which seems to confirm that he was just to busy to formulate properly, and that there is no deeper meaning to this. Austins post on risk.nuke pretty much mirrors my thoughts. I agree with his analysis that risk was playing rather protown D1, but since then his activity has gone down badly. I would like to see more from Austin to get a better picture of his alignemnet, but currently I do not think he is scum. risk.nuke: As said, his early play looks slightly townie, however recently his activity dropped hard. I would really like to hear from him why this is the case. Also, I would like to hear from him what he thinks of Hapa. @Syllo, is risk more active in the mason circle? My scum reads are snb and GK. Regarding hopeless (who I have still marked as scum): I was also looking at a series of posts that discussed Hopeless' night actions and if they add up, but I'm currently unable to find it. If anyone knows where it is, a friendly pointer would be very nice. @Acro for your spreadsheet, I was the one dealing damage to Goodkarma last night. First mention of VE in a while - + Show Spoiler + On December 04 2012 17:29 phagga wrote: Regarding VE: Being inactive on the verge of a modkill does not really say anything about his alignement. If it turns out that he is just going to post again this circle to not get modkilled, then he is mainly vigi-stuff. If he still wants to participate in this game properly, I expect him to step up his game drastically. risk scum for inactivity, 1:30 til deadline - + Show Spoiler + On December 07 2012 06:29 phagga wrote: About risk.nuke For him it is pretty much the opposite of Hope. I liked his early play as I explained earlier. However, for almost a week now he has gone silent. It was pointed out that he has not called a person scum or made a case. I asked him several times for his read on hapa and never got an answer. His recent play is worrying. He promised a defense and a case, and now, less than two hours before deadline, he has not posted it. I therefore assume he is not playing in towns interest, which warrants a lynch. About goodkarma: I wanted to update my read on him too, but did not find the time. I will do so in the next cycle, I should have a lot of time on my hand from tomorrow evening on (wife and kids are gone for a week). Since I seem to be the only one still having him marked as scum, i give him the benefit of the doubt until I have been able to go through his filter again. About the Epoch: I am happy following the majority again regarding the time we travel to. ##Unvote Lynch: Goodkarma ##Lynch: risk.nuke ##Epoch: Middle Ages And with this I'm off to bed. See you guys tomorrow. (3) His votes on confirmed scum Sandroba - + Show Spoiler + On November 25 2012 07:53 phagga wrote: Not finished with reading everything. Not feeling sure enough with Toad yet. I can agree to a Sandro lynch. His reluctance to defend himself, the way he talked about his scumreads (only mentioning names, barely any reasoning) and his lurking when under pressure are enough reasons for me to justify a vote. ##Unvote ##Vote Sandroba ***Quote tag messing up and can't seem to fix. Rest is editorializing by me*** Right before deadline. Hasn't read, sidesteps talking about toad. Is okay lynching Sandroba, but hasn't mentioned Sandroba as scum before. Toad - + Show Spoiler + On November 29 2012 09:17 phagga wrote: ##Vote Toadesstern He has mentioned toad ONCE I believe at this point. Not as scum. I know you guys had like...matching checks on him, but at this point, phagga just hasn't talked about toad AT ALL, hasn't interacted, hasn't read him, doesn't touch him ***Quote tag messing up and can't seem to fix. Rest is editorializing by me*** He has mentioned toad ONCE I believe at this point. Not as scum. I know you guys had like...matching checks on him, but at this point, phagga just hasn't talked about toad AT ALL, hasn't interacted, hasn't read him, doesn't touch him Did not vote snb risk.nuke - + Show Spoiler + On December 07 2012 06:29 phagga wrote: About risk.nuke For him it is pretty much the opposite of Hope. I liked his early play as I explained earlier. However, for almost a week now he has gone silent. It was pointed out that he has not called a person scum or made a case. I asked him several times for his read on hapa and never got an answer. His recent play is worrying. He promised a defense and a case, and now, less than two hours before deadline, he has not posted it. I therefore assume he is not playing in towns interest, which warrants a lynch. About goodkarma: I wanted to update my read on him too, but did not find the time. I will do so in the next cycle, I should have a lot of time on my hand from tomorrow evening on (wife and kids are gone for a week). Since I seem to be the only one still having him marked as scum, i give him the benefit of the doubt until I have been able to go through his filter again. About the Epoch: I am happy following the majority again regarding the time we travel to. ##Unvote Lynch: Goodkarma ##Lynch: risk.nuke ##Epoch: Middle Ages And with this I'm off to bed. See you guys tomorrow. My overall takeaway is that for someone who D1 was guns blazing "Don't townhunt, gotta scumhunt," phagga has not made good on that. In some odd ways. (1) His scumreads pop in and out of nowhere. Drazerk was scum, then he wasn't. No update, no nothing, and more or less no discussion of Drazerk for the rest of the game. GK is scum, not scum, scum. Never gives a scumread on Sandroba, just agrees and drops a vote. Never gives a scumread OR MENTIONS Toad, drops the vote. Never drops a scumread on snb. Drops a scumread on risk during the last day, prior to that one of phagga's only interactions with risk was to say a post of risk's sounded scummy but risk was town. Which is fine, that happens. But it's curious when it's basically the limit of your interaction with confirmed scum. Again, I'm coming for a point of thinking he's the scum in the group, but the malleability of his scumreads lets him do whatever he wants. Add onto that that he never seems to volunteer a read. There's always a request, and he notes that some read has changed, without ever having thought he might want to note that before needing to be asked. (2) His votes on scum as a whole lack reasoning and are almost always 11th hour. Sandroba vote is 7 minutes before deadline, and he says he hasn't read everything, seems to just be jumping on board. Toad vote is just a toad vote, nothing more, but then he backs off later in the day, worried about a pardoner. No vote on snb risk.nuke vote is 1:30 until deadline, after he was townie on risk earlier I secretly like the pardoner stuff, because I loves me some paranoia, but...his votes ALWAYS limp in on scum, bar Toad who was checked. They limp in right at deadline. There's rarely a mention of the suspect before the vote, and in risk's case, the mention was that he "sounded like scum" but was townie. So, for now : ##vote phagga We have unexplained damage. He fits the do-er of that damage better than others for me. We have very little scumhunting. We have very odd interactions with confirmed scum, and...curious votes. One thing I want to bring up though is the waiting is odd. He posts on GK all day every day, and waits to vote scum until last-minute. But he doesn't...he's not trying to save them much. Apart from risk, he's not going around calling the others townie (He had a weird spat with someone who called snb scum, saying we didn't know snb scum, but ... that whole exchange was funky and I left it out). That's the one thing I'm puzzled by, is why is he waiting until last minute but not trying to save these guys. He can't be waiting on anyone else, so I don't get the delay and the odd votes. THAT Oatsmaster, is more like a wall of text. | ||
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What I can do is tell you that: (1) I could have nuked Adam but didn't, didn't know what was going on yet (2) I healed iamperfection (3) I thought I had some decent things to add to the snb discussion That doesn't count for particularly much, I know. But i'm drained and there's not a lot else I can point to. | ||
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Actually, I'd prefer prehistory. Between being able to shoot Adam and being able to HP check, I'd really like to have an HP check on Acrofales. Seems like potentially useful information, because I really expect something to happen there right before lavos or during. I guess the next cycle doesn't matter too much though if phagga flips red and that summons lavos? ##Epoch: 65,000,000 BC | ||
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I'm gone most of tomorrow, unsure if I'm back before deadline. So I've got a tiny window tonight to wrap up and discuss anything, otherwise...hope people see the light. | ||
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On December 08 2012 18:36 syllogism wrote: Austin can you tell me what happens if you are hit with mafia factional KP? Can you still counterattack? Not like you're hoping, no. Role is that I'm the Guru of Reason in those eras, and will "only attack someone that has attacked [me] before." The damage goes to "the last person to do damage to [me]." If there isn't a person that's the source, then I can't fire back. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [PURE SPECULATION] + There's still the possibility he's magus, and the way in which we dealt with the magus event determined his alignment or something like that. But I also got to thinking that it would be really interesting for Grey to make him an optional boss in the game. Did Chrono Trigger have anything like a Ruby/Emerald Weapon? Could have him be an optional, powerful boss, and IF we had killed him we'd get bonuses, but if not...maybe just no bonuses and he lives. Very unlikely that we'd have to kill something optional and be punished if not by Acro actually becoming anti-town in that case. Again, it's pure pure speculation. But it felt interesting in my head, and I'm dropping it here in case we lynch phagga, summon lavos, and Acro poofs out of the game as some optional boss. | ||
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On December 08 2012 23:19 Promethelax wrote: nope. but you feel most wrong. what rolename do you think makes most sense for Phagga and why? Just went and looked at Kino and golem. The ability fits golem.better. he attacks the party with whatever element was used on him last, and only the last one. Kino didn't have boatloads on him, but the flavor that phagga claimed fits kinos flavor. Seems more likely that the Kino thing is a fakeclaim. All we have is claimed flavor and a crumb of Kino. Lots of night actions unaccounted for, which makes me think that both golrm fits better AND could.have some base attack + the copycat bit. If.nothing else, kita's questions are good. How do you haves copy role and not use it? It looks more like he's sat back, avoided any situation that could test him or force him to use pro-towj abilities. | ||
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On December 08 2012 23:33 Promethelax wrote: so why did he claim at CJ to the whole thread? Easiest answer is he didn't think it through, that we could then force him.to use protown night actions. I mean, we seem to have ALL missed out on that, nobody picked up that we could try and use the copying to our advantage. It's also not a giant advantage now that I think about it. Town healer heals him Nx. He has a heal for Nx+1, as does the healer. End result, 1 heal on him, 2 heals on town. Which is BETTER for him that just town healer healing on Nx and x+1. It actually works out well for him almost no matter what,.because the town actor "wastes" a protown action one night. I'm on phone, but if the cycle he claimed was one where scum tried to take out someone highly visible (syllo, dinosaurs) then he could have been attempting to get heals away from.them for that night | ||
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On December 08 2012 23:41 Oatsmaster wrote: Actually austin, if Golem is his real role name, then he is definately scum. The ability sounds almost exactly like what the golems do in game. It does fit. Prom did you go look the claimed roles up for their in game actions? It's not 100%, but its worth considering along with the other stuff. | ||
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On December 09 2012 03:04 phagga wrote: If he would not have healed a townie today, he would have been a sure lynch. I had no other choice. If I were scum, I seemed to already be on the chopping block. Why would I heal town in order to push back another cycle? Based on toads machine, scum wants to summon lavos early, so why would I not just die? | ||
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On December 09 2012 06:25 syllogism wrote: That doesn't read like a real case to me and it's conveniently about the only person who we can possibly lynch over him. Does he truly think think that "vote limping" on mafia is indicative of someone being mafia in this game considering mafia bussed sandroba, there was a red check on toad (and s&b basically) and risk wasn't even playing? What reasoning should he have contributed exactly? Were other, town aligned people "guilty" of this too (the answer is yes). It's as real a case as there is on me. At least me me. If you think it's "conveniently about the only person who we can possibly lynch over me" then...that's good. That means I just made a case on the remaining scum, because I'm town. I can't help it if we're down to a couple options and one is me...you say that like you'd prefer I wrote up a case on someone i DON'T think is mafia. Yes, we're low on options. That doesn't mean that a case made on one of those options is somehow meaningless or advantageous. I think the limping counts for something. I think it's slightly better evidence given the lack of discussion on those players prior to their lynches. For many of those players, he barely interacts with them, or not at all, and then votes them. When he does interact with them, the reads shift back and forth. I'm less worried about the vote timing portion indicating SCUM than I am about the malleability of the reads indicating SCUM. Never taking hard stances (except on GK, and then taking a hard stance that goes back and forth) allows him to respond to questions about his reads like he has at times. "Oh, why am I now chatting with Drazerk when I thought he was scum? Turns out I think he's town now, like...last cycle or two ago. Yup, he's town." But they never change before someone points out an incongruency in his play, they always change as a reaction in order to EXPLAIN the incongruency. | ||
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On December 09 2012 06:36 syllogism wrote: No, I mean the only player we are willing to lynch today, not the only person who can possibly be mafia. There are a couple other options, but I don't like them. See the setup post, because that's one way I narrowed things down. Some of the remaining options almost certainly aren't scum, unless they're ALSO hiding that they can take multiple actions per night like oatsmaster was. We're simply at a point where we can eliminate even a lot of the remaining options. I'm not gonna throw around cases on anyone I can find just to save my hide. I think phagga is mafia. If you dislike that, nothing I can do there. | ||
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On December 09 2012 06:50 phagga wrote: Two things: The reason why I vote austin is BECAUSE after working through hopes and Adams filter, I feel they are town. That may come late, but whatever. This practically only leaves austin as possible scum. If you don't like how I got to that conclusion, bad luck. It helped me nailing down the person I think is scum, this is why I played this way. Second, Austins case has no single new accusation in it. It has all been there. How can you come and say this is more than I have done when all he has done is rehashing points others brought up? I really don't see it. I don't think anyone had brought up the timing of your votes on scum. I assume others had mentioned the lack of scumhunting. I don't know that anyone else had gone through and picked out every time you give a concrete read, just to see when it happens, and to see where those concrete reads then change without notice. | ||
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On December 08 2012 19:16 phagga wrote: + Show Spoiler + On December 08 2012 11:51 austinmcc wrote: Okay. I've taken the time to read over Phagga's filter. This is a bit bass-ackwards, because I'm already looking at him to be the scum in our unclaimed group, and so reading his early game is shaded by that. But what I get from his filter is...that he thinks goodkarma is scum. Sometimes. Most times. For a little while no, then yes again, and now no. Other than that...I pick up a couple things that should be pointed out. (1) Phagga wants scumhunting. He does not want townhunting. + Show Spoiler + On November 21 2012 16:54 phagga wrote: Ok, looks like I need to clarify myself. Townhunting is stupid. Do you know why? Because scum can fake it to no end, since they know who is not scum. Talking about who is townie makes it much easier for scum to blend in, which then makes it much harder for town to choose the right people for their teams. Yes, there may be multiple factions in this game. Still, if we force scum to scumhunt they are more likely to trip as if they can just give their townreads out. So, no, I disagree that this game revolves around townhunting. We find out who is townie by scumhunting, not by townhunting. Phagga proceeds to spend the game...not doing much scumhunting. Acro picked up on this early, but at least within Phagga's filter I don't see much of him responding to this line of questioning being continued. (2) A list of phagga's scum reads (I'm going to leave out a bunch of links, but there are very few "x is scum" and a tremendous amount of wishywashy "x might be scum, might not be scum, just saying' " posts): Drazerk, GK (but hasn't gone through filter), BioSC (based on someone else's comment it seems) - + Show Spoiler + On November 23 2012 18:05 phagga wrote: My list with reads on everyone has one person painted in bright red: CaveJohnson. That's were my vote goes for now. However, my list is not up to date. I will try to go through several filters and update it, so I might make a more definite vote before Kita has to make his prediction. People who are also red in my list: - Goodkarma, although I REALLY have to go through his filter now. Have not done that yet. - BioSC, lurking hardcore although he was very excited pregame, as someone mentioned Other people I want to look into/know more about: - Sandroba, I read his filter yesterday. I want to hear more from him and what he says about the current accusations - Hopeless1der, I have "looks shady, check filter" note on him, but I don't know why anymore. Will clear this up. ##Vote CaveJohnson Then GK definitely, after reading filter. Then GK isn't scum - + Show Spoiler + On November 26 2012 07:27 phagga wrote: Ok, I've updated my read on GK and I would no longer lynch him. When the D2 lynch came to a close, he asked people to consolidate on either sandroba or Toad. He tried to shut down any discussion that would bring in new candidates. considering that Sandro is confirmed scum and Toad is very very likely scum, I don't see the mafia motivation behind is behaviour. also, the way he acts D3 seems more pro-town than on the first day. All in all, I put GK on null for the moment. Then GK still not scum, but phagga angry with him - + Show Spoiler + On November 28 2012 20:32 phagga wrote: You have some nerve. I have not seen a single case of you this game, your filter is almost completely devoid of any scumhunting, and you go and lecture dieno on how to play? Dieno achieved something in this game that you have not yet done, he has established himself as town. That is already worth a lot for town. You may not agree with his methods of doing it, but he was one of the fastest established townies in this game. But you come in the thread regularly and have nothing better to do than to mock him. Do you think this is creating the kind of town atmosphere we need to win this game? What is the benefit for town of you calling him incompetent, bad and mocking his playstile? I don't see one. Ah, finally you make a case! Oh noes, you couldn't be arsed to make a case, instead you throw out this worthless list where you throw some dirt around with barely any explanation. Like I care. If you are too drunk to play, don't play. If you play, I don't care about your state, i will hold you responsible for your actions. This is weird. At this point, phagga has put forth 2 scumreads. (1) GK, which he has retracted. (2) Drazerk, who he didn't push, and hasn't mentioned really at all since initially saying he found Drazerk scummy. phagga is getting on GK's case about creating a good town atmosphere and about a lack of scumhunting, when he's retracted 1/2 his scumhunting and isn't doing anything with the other half Back to GK being scum, along with hopeless1der - + Show Spoiler + On November 29 2012 01:32 phagga wrote: Note that phagga never puts forth "Scummy on GK again" on his own. He's asked what he's thinking about GK after that last post, he responds that he's changed his mind and GK is scummy. BTW, hopeless1der is now scummy too, just out of nowhere1. After his behaviour today I'm rather leaning scum on him again. Reason is that his behaviour was rather disruptive imho, and that is rather scum motivated. Also, z-boson made me rethink the whole bussing-situation, and I don't feel as sure about my conclusion from last time anymore. So, leaning scum on GK. Pre-Edit: What also really bothered me was that GK was posting this huge list with 11 people on it. That's half of the remaining player base. The problem is, people are slightly bored in this game, they try too hard to find scum and start to misinterpret situations because of confirmation bias. The want to find scum so hard that they scum where none is. Syllo actually pointed this out a few pages ago, and took this as a reason to take a break IIRC. Looking at GKs list from that point of view shows how counterproductive it is to towns interest. You don't want half of the town chasing the other half of the town. You want people trying to make proper cases of one or two other people, and show how the actions of their suspects fit a mafia agenda (or how they don't). Those cases don't have to be long, but they should have a clear focus and a proper analysis. Then others can discuss it and agree or disagree, which will lead most of the times on a reasonable result. GKs list mainly spreads distrust and is therefore counterproductive. 2. I remember going over Hopeless' filter a few days ago and setting him null on my list. Then Hope came up with this strange theorie about what if Toad flips town, followed by TC saying that Acro and Hope are of opposite alignement. Then he wanted to be part of the party to show that he is town, which was a red flag for me. Since then he is marked as scum. Regarding your post, I like the point about his sentence that he will not bring any last minute shenanigans. I mean, this is what everyone expects, why does he feel he has to announce this? seems like he is missing a townie mindest. The "Bring it, bitches" is interesting because he first takes a defensive stance in his answers to TCs case, but then tries to look aggressive with that last sentence. It does not seem authentic, but I don't think it's alignement indicative. 3. I'm running out of time I want to go through Kita's filter again, I don't like to just make comments about a person without some facts behind it. I hope to give you answer until the deadline. Which reminds me, I haven't voted yet. BRB with vote. He gets called out for not following-up Drazerk read, responds - + Show Spoiler + On November 30 2012 08:14 phagga wrote: He improved. There was no need push him anymore on D3. Also, i was absent of the thread for most of D2 (which I announced beforehand). Regarding the last post, yes, I was pretty sure at that point that he is at least not scum. However, i was overeager when I wrote that post, I should have gone into this more cautiously, not revealing that much about me. Says risk "sounds like scum," but nothing more - + Show Spoiler + On December 03 2012 17:18 phagga wrote: That post sounds like scum. you have posted almost nothing in the last 72 hours, and all you do is trying to judge a player on is claimed abilities. Hapa has posted a lot in the last few hours, why don't you comment on that? Now strongandbig scum based on syllo's tracking - + Show Spoiler + On December 03 2012 20:33 phagga wrote: @risk.nuke I also still would like to know what you think of hapa. Regarding SnB: Having two damaging abilities, him visiting Djo who is in the party is damning in any case. However, I am also confident in my scum read on Goodkarma, so I am happy to lynch either of them. For now, my vote stays on GK. Note: First time he's called out snb, really mentioned snb at all recently risk sounds like scum? So...scum, right? Nope. - + Show Spoiler + On December 04 2012 01:33 phagga wrote: z-boson/austin: I noticed that z-boson made several unclear statetements which he had to rectract later. I personally already thought that it was probably only a problem of him being busy and working in haste, which resulted in those errors. Nevertheless, I asked him about this because I wanted to see his reaction. He never replied and got replaced shortly after, which seems to confirm that he was just to busy to formulate properly, and that there is no deeper meaning to this. Austins post on risk.nuke pretty much mirrors my thoughts. I agree with his analysis that risk was playing rather protown D1, but since then his activity has gone down badly. I would like to see more from Austin to get a better picture of his alignemnet, but currently I do not think he is scum. risk.nuke: As said, his early play looks slightly townie, however recently his activity dropped hard. I would really like to hear from him why this is the case. Also, I would like to hear from him what he thinks of Hapa. @Syllo, is risk more active in the mason circle? My scum reads are snb and GK. Regarding hopeless (who I have still marked as scum): I was also looking at a series of posts that discussed Hopeless' night actions and if they add up, but I'm currently unable to find it. If anyone knows where it is, a friendly pointer would be very nice. @Acro for your spreadsheet, I was the one dealing damage to Goodkarma last night. First mention of VE in a while - + Show Spoiler + On December 04 2012 17:29 phagga wrote: Regarding VE: Being inactive on the verge of a modkill does not really say anything about his alignement. If it turns out that he is just going to post again this circle to not get modkilled, then he is mainly vigi-stuff. If he still wants to participate in this game properly, I expect him to step up his game drastically. risk scum for inactivity, 1:30 til deadline - + Show Spoiler + On December 07 2012 06:29 phagga wrote: About risk.nuke For him it is pretty much the opposite of Hope. I liked his early play as I explained earlier. However, for almost a week now he has gone silent. It was pointed out that he has not called a person scum or made a case. I asked him several times for his read on hapa and never got an answer. His recent play is worrying. He promised a defense and a case, and now, less than two hours before deadline, he has not posted it. I therefore assume he is not playing in towns interest, which warrants a lynch. About goodkarma: I wanted to update my read on him too, but did not find the time. I will do so in the next cycle, I should have a lot of time on my hand from tomorrow evening on (wife and kids are gone for a week). Since I seem to be the only one still having him marked as scum, i give him the benefit of the doubt until I have been able to go through his filter again. About the Epoch: I am happy following the majority again regarding the time we travel to. ##Unvote Lynch: Goodkarma ##Lynch: risk.nuke ##Epoch: Middle Ages And with this I'm off to bed. See you guys tomorrow. (3) His votes on confirmed scum Sandroba - + Show Spoiler + On November 25 2012 07:53 phagga wrote: Not finished with reading everything. Not feeling sure enough with Toad yet. I can agree to a Sandro lynch. His reluctance to defend himself, the way he talked about his scumreads (only mentioning names, barely any reasoning) and his lurking when under pressure are enough reasons for me to justify a vote. ##Unvote ##Vote Sandroba ***Quote tag messing up and can't seem to fix. Rest is editorializing by me*** Right before deadline. Hasn't read, sidesteps talking about toad. Is okay lynching Sandroba, but hasn't mentioned Sandroba as scum before. Toad - + Show Spoiler + On November 29 2012 09:17 phagga wrote: ##Vote Toadesstern He has mentioned toad ONCE I believe at this point. Not as scum. I know you guys had like...matching checks on him, but at this point, phagga just hasn't talked about toad AT ALL, hasn't interacted, hasn't read him, doesn't touch him ***Quote tag messing up and can't seem to fix. Rest is editorializing by me*** He has mentioned toad ONCE I believe at this point. Not as scum. I know you guys had like...matching checks on him, but at this point, phagga just hasn't talked about toad AT ALL, hasn't interacted, hasn't read him, doesn't touch him Did not vote snb risk.nuke - + Show Spoiler + On December 07 2012 06:29 phagga wrote: About risk.nuke For him it is pretty much the opposite of Hope. I liked his early play as I explained earlier. However, for almost a week now he has gone silent. It was pointed out that he has not called a person scum or made a case. I asked him several times for his read on hapa and never got an answer. His recent play is worrying. He promised a defense and a case, and now, less than two hours before deadline, he has not posted it. I therefore assume he is not playing in towns interest, which warrants a lynch. About goodkarma: I wanted to update my read on him too, but did not find the time. I will do so in the next cycle, I should have a lot of time on my hand from tomorrow evening on (wife and kids are gone for a week). Since I seem to be the only one still having him marked as scum, i give him the benefit of the doubt until I have been able to go through his filter again. About the Epoch: I am happy following the majority again regarding the time we travel to. ##Unvote Lynch: Goodkarma ##Lynch: risk.nuke ##Epoch: Middle Ages And with this I'm off to bed. See you guys tomorrow. My overall takeaway is that for someone who D1 was guns blazing "Don't townhunt, gotta scumhunt," phagga has not made good on that. In some odd ways. (1) His scumreads pop in and out of nowhere. Drazerk was scum, then he wasn't. No update, no nothing, and more or less no discussion of Drazerk for the rest of the game. GK is scum, not scum, scum. Never gives a scumread on Sandroba, just agrees and drops a vote. Never gives a scumread OR MENTIONS Toad, drops the vote. Never drops a scumread on snb. Drops a scumread on risk during the last day, prior to that one of phagga's only interactions with risk was to say a post of risk's sounded scummy but risk was town. Which is fine, that happens. But it's curious when it's basically the limit of your interaction with confirmed scum. Again, I'm coming for a point of thinking he's the scum in the group, but the malleability of his scumreads lets him do whatever he wants. Add onto that that he never seems to volunteer a read. There's always a request, and he notes that some read has changed, without ever having thought he might want to note that before needing to be asked. (2) His votes on scum as a whole lack reasoning and are almost always 11th hour. Sandroba vote is 7 minutes before deadline, and he says he hasn't read everything, seems to just be jumping on board. Toad vote is just a toad vote, nothing more, but then he backs off later in the day, worried about a pardoner. No vote on snb risk.nuke vote is 1:30 until deadline, after he was townie on risk earlier I secretly like the pardoner stuff, because I loves me some paranoia, but...his votes ALWAYS limp in on scum, bar Toad who was checked. They limp in right at deadline. There's rarely a mention of the suspect before the vote, and in risk's case, the mention was that he "sounded like scum" but was townie. So, for now : ##vote phagga We have unexplained damage. He fits the do-er of that damage better than others for me. We have very little scumhunting. We have very odd interactions with confirmed scum, and...curious votes. One thing I want to bring up though is the waiting is odd. He posts on GK all day every day, and waits to vote scum until last-minute. But he doesn't...he's not trying to save them much. Apart from risk, he's not going around calling the others townie (He had a weird spat with someone who called snb scum, saying we didn't know snb scum, but ... that whole exchange was funky and I left it out). That's the one thing I'm puzzled by, is why is he waiting until last minute but not trying to save these guys. He can't be waiting on anyone else, so I don't get the delay and the odd votes. THAT Oatsmaster, is more like a wall of text. Regarding GK: I got my doubts yesterday of him being scum because several people suddenly saw him as strong town. I tried to figure out why, and ended up confused. I never said I no longer think he is scum. My problem additionally was that I barely have any other scum read. I already said how I think about hope and you earlier. so I was sitting there, looking at the list of the remaining players and thought: "if GK is not scum, who is it then?". I did not find an answer. Regarding Toad: That guy had 2 red checks on him for over 4 real time days. Why would I want to interact with him? Why is it wrong to vote him without further reasoning when HE HAS 2 RED CHECKS ON HIM!? Regarding Sandro: I said I wanted to look into him, it was on the weekends. I wrote about my weekends, I'm sure you read that since you claim to have read my filter. I really have no interest to go back to that topic again. Regarding Risk: I said his early game looked rather townie, but in the same sentence voiced my concerns that his activity dropped off. I never called him town. This is just plain wrong. Update on VE, here another update, Here why I thought prom or hope should not be on the party. There are others, you may find them in my filter if you care. The last bit here, I must admit, is true. There are, in fact, like 2-3 times this game where phagga has volunteered some sort of read. Huzzah! In response to Hapa saying he was leaning townier on phagga, phagga volunteered that GK is still scum. He also volunteered information about VE. That what VE was doing wasn't alignment-indicative, and that he should be a vigi target. Yes, he did volunteer information there...that we should be using our KP on VE. The second post in which he volunteers information is noting that z-boson made some statements that he had to retract later. Then he got replaced. There was no deeper meaning to that (NOT A READ). He does not that he thinks I am town after replacing in. Gj! Risk's early play looks slightly townie. recently his activity has dropped. Again, not really a read...just wishy washy "this bit looks slightly townie" the end. snb and GK are scum. On the third...Prom and Hopeless shouldn't be in the party. Agrees with syllo on Prom, nothing more. As for hopeless, hopeless wants to be in the party, some people doubt hopeless1der's townieness, and there is no reason for him to want to be in the party as town. That's ... MAYBE a read? But the read is "Some people think he's scum, so he wouldn't want to be in a party as town, and since he wants to be in a party he's scum." I don't follow the logic there. If he knows he's town, and especially if he's got bonuses from being in the party, of course he wants to be in the party. Moreover, a townie could think that by being in a successful party, he has another avenue of showing he's townie. I just...these are the volunteered reads. Half of them aren't actually reads. There's no MEAT. phagga's filter is vegetarian, and very very carefully picked over. One minute there's a pile of carrots, but NOW IT'S ASPARAGUS. THE CARROTS ARE GONE AND IT'S ASPARAGUS NOW. | ||
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On December 09 2012 06:56 phagga wrote: Austin, you never reacted to this post. Why not? Because I was gone most of today until right now, just like I said I'd be. And then because I was responding to it ^ | ||
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On December 09 2012 06:48 syllogism wrote: It's absolutely fine to think phagga is mafia and it's certainly easier for you as you know your own alignment. He can very well be mafia and I don't particularly care who we lynch first as the remaining person is going to get roleblocked anyway. The point was I don't find your case on him alignment indicative. If I had time or will to compare your posting in this game with some other games, perhaps I could tell. This game is just too long and it's getting more and more difficult to care. Why can't it just end already, who is tormenting us for no reason at all Game has been long. Yes, I'm sure whoever isn't lynched will get roleblocked. That's expected. But... On December 08 2012 12:17 austinmcc wrote: I am thinking about tomorrow. I am thinking about the day after tomorrow. I want to be around tomorrow, I have a reason to go to 65,000,000 BC, because between shooting Adam and checking Acro, I'd rather check Acro. On the off chance that I can check Acro before lavos pops, although that seems unlikely, I want to be able to do so. Gives us some knowledge of what we're dealing with if he does anything weird.In terms of epoch, I'm .... less concerned with that. Whether we go Antiquity or Prehistory, I won't have healing or shielding available. Actually, I'd prefer prehistory. Between being able to shoot Adam and being able to HP check, I'd really like to have an HP check on Acrofales. Seems like potentially useful information, because I really expect something to happen there right before lavos or during. I guess the next cycle doesn't matter too much though if phagga flips red and that summons lavos? ##Epoch: 65,000,000 BC Do you know what phagga wants to do tomorrow? Do you know what phagga wants to do the day after tomorrow? AFTER ALL THE TALK OF WHO CAN USE WHAT ABILITY ON PHAGGA FOR HIM TO COPY...THERE IS STILL NO DISCUSSION OF THAT. He's not thinking about this game's future, because he knows that if I get lynched today, he gets lynched tomorrow. I'm trying to keep playing this game. He doesn't seem interested in the future AT ALL. Why? If we're really about to summon lavos, and he's town, isn't he thinking about where he wants to fight lavos? What he wants to do this cycle? Asking someone to use not a heal but SOMETHING on him that we want against lavos? He's not doing any of that. Because he has no future in this game. | ||
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I'm not scum. I'm trying to play this game and see lavos pop, I'm still thinking about the future. I'm trying to figure things out. I claimed my role in full to try and help with that, I didn't shoot someone who I hadn't read up on for 300 damage. You may not love the case on phagga, but what part of the case on me do you love? If there is one. | ||
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On December 09 2012 07:08 syllogism wrote: Acro is a third party and have you even read his filter? He has been by far the most useful player in the game. Why do you want to "check" acro and what information is that going to give us? I'm town and I don't care about any of those things, by the way. Yes, I've read his filter. Yes, he's been very useful. My check is HP. He claimed a burjillion HP, don't even bother killing me guys, kk 3rd party survivor. I kind of want to test that. Do you actually think he's being ENTIRELY truthful about the information he's given us? YES, he absolutely didn't sit back on his laurels after that. He's made cases, participated, driven discussion. This is all true. But I don't know his role. And you don't know his role. And we don't exactly know what's going to happen when Lavos pops. Our win con goes beyond killing scum, and if you're not thinking about that then you're being shortsighted. It's gonna be a weird-ass mafia game if we finish off scum and lose, with acro and lavos winning separately (together?). | ||
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I don't see who's really worth checking over Acro at this point, and I'm curious, so I'd prefer him. | ||
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On December 09 2012 07:17 syllogism wrote: Why are you so focused on acro? Shouldn't you be more interested in finding the last mafia and using your ability to pursue that goal? Or do you think phagga won't flip mafia? As soon as all the mafia are dead, lavos gets summoned so it doesn't really make sense for a third party to count towards our win con, especially if we don't put him on the party when fighting lavos. EXHIBIT 1: holy Roman. This isn't a caller game, but not knowing anything about third party has sometimes been bad for town. | ||
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Defending oneself in a game is draining and time-consuming. I'm a little burnt out, and frankly...there's nobody that I like right now for scum. So no, I haven't given up. But I'm convinced that the remaining scum has just hidden himself well, either through creative bussing or some kind of sneaky ability, and they're now entrenched enough that we're stuck having them be part of the lavos fight. Apart from kita, no single player frightens me that much right now, and so I don't think that a single scum player will be a problem. But I don't have a scumread right now. So...my defense is already in thread, same as it was yesterday. Just this cycle the defense is "I'm not scum" without "I'm not scum and that specific person is." So I'm voting acrofales, as I feel that taking him out before lavos is the best thing to do with this cycle. If I don't have a clue who the remaining scum is, I'd rather take out 3P than a townie. | ||
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But...if you don't think I'm scum, or if you would no-lynch given the option...why are you voting for me? At the very least, vote for the guy who we KNOW isn't town. I know syllo wants acrofales to win, and he HAS been helpful, but he's the only player I can vote today with confidence that I'm not going to mislynch a townie. | ||
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On December 10 2012 11:18 Oatsmaster wrote: ##Vote: austinmcc Why not kita if you want to kill a 3rd party then? Acro has been pretty helpful for town, kita, not so much Has kita claimed to be 3P chrono? | ||
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On December 10 2012 11:21 Keirathi wrote: austin: the reason we're voting you today is because you didn't attempt to heal anyone last night. Why not? On December 09 2012 06:48 syllogism wrote: It was announced that whoever wasn't lynched was going to be roleblocked. There was no reason for syllo to make this an idle threat, I actually believe that he's tired of this game and didn't care who got lynched. So it's not really worth sending in an action that's guaranteed to get blocked.It's absolutely fine to think phagga is mafia and it's certainly easier for you as you know your own alignment. He can very well be mafia and I don't particularly care who we lynch first as the remaining person is going to get roleblocked anyway. The point was I don't find your case on him alignment indicative. If I had time or will to compare your posting in this game with some other games, perhaps I could tell. This game is just too long and it's getting more and more difficult to care. Why can't it just end already, who is tormenting us for no reason at all Syllo, I checked. No, I did not claim an ability in 1999 AD. I did not know if I had one, there was nothing in my original role about that. Turns out I can choose any of the three gurus and be that guy for 1999 AD. So...either heal/shield, or if we think we've got enough of that, I can go counterattack and hope lavos hits me. | ||
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On December 10 2012 11:25 Promethelax wrote: Austin, answer the question. and tell me who the last scum is if it isn't you. You aren't even scum hunting. Been answered now, figured it was apparent why I wouldn't do anything last night. I can't tell you who the last scum is. I don't like any of the "obvious" choices for scum. Today's lynch shouldn't be "pick a person, force them to carry town by finding the remaining scum because dear Lord I sure don't know who the last guy is." There are quite a few players who seem to have given up on this game cycles ago, some players have pretty much explicitly said that. So if you're voting me because I haven't found the remaining scum...okay. Nobody else seems to have a clear idea of who the final scum is...if I actually FOUND the scum I'd look kind of suspect, because then I'm the only guy in the game with a clear scum read. | ||
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On December 10 2012 11:30 iamperfection wrote: Your an idiot. We know wierd stuff has happened all game there is no reason not to send an action especially a heal. I had no reason to believe syllo was lying. Nobody had reason to interfere with him. If scum blocks his roleblock then I get a heal off, which is a bad deal for scum. I may do dumb things from time to time, but not sending in an action last night wasn't dumb imo. | ||
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On December 10 2012 11:35 iamperfection wrote: I don't have a scumread on anyone. There are enough people hiding information/abilities that it could easily be one of those, or near anyone else. At this point, I'm just more convinced that whoever is remaining is someone that nobody suspects. Including me.In other words your saying since everyone else is being lazy I can be lazy too. What you trying to blend in? Frankly, it makes the most sense if this person isn't conceding. It's got to be someone that's trusted enough that they can maybe direct abilities against lavos in a way that somehow benefits them, or ... I dunno. This starts to sound really conspiracy-theory-ish, but that's what I've got. I don't know WHO the person is, but someone above suspicion is really the only explanation for why the person wouldn't concede. Right? They had to know they'd last a couple cycles. | ||
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On December 10 2012 11:40 iamperfection wrote: What would be the downside for sending an action austin? Checkmate What would be the upside? If the upside is "someone could have messed with syllo, therefore you'd have gotten a heal off" then you need to explain to me why scum would mess with syllo and let me heal a townie. And if that's the upside, then the equally-silly downside is "remaining scum can force a player's action onto him/can redirect, and could have used me to make sure he got healed up before lavos was summoned" | ||
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On December 10 2012 11:41 Promethelax wrote: Well you are an idiot for not trusting me. These things happen. Austin: what role do you believe the last scum has? Do you think he has a kp role or that he is hiding his role behind the factional kp? So here's what I'm working off at the moment: scum is someone we all trust. The scum team as a whole started pushing this person into a good position from the beginning. Maybe a bus or two, maybe scum team shooting this person and knowing that he'd get heals later on, something like that. Whoever they chose for that, it's probably what they thought to be their strongest ability, or the one that would be most relevant lategame. I could see kp, as ... I haven't quite kept up with all the extra claims and half-claims the last day or two, but I don't THINK we have all our damage explained yet? I think the most likely role is something like a mimic/morph sort of deal. Choose a player, get their ability for the cycle. Scum could be sure that no matter how the lavos fight works, their mimic player could get the most useful ability out of all the townies, as there would almost certainly be claims before endgame or when lavos starts. phagga had a reactive copy ability, but we haven't seen anything proactive yet and it would make sense for that to be the person protected for endgame. Beyond that...could potentially be someone that can leave battle for a cycle or two? If someone had a role to flee, to become untargetable for a cycle or two, then maybe scum is banking on that player being able to avoid whatever it is lavos would do, be untargetable, and make sure that lavos was only attacking townies. Off the top of my head, those are two things we haven't seen (except drazerk's one-night untargetable claim) that would kind of make sense to protect until lavos. | ||
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If scum has someone who levels up like kita does, that's an easy choice. Going to be the strongest by the end of game, maybe can use multiple actions at the start of the lavos fight and inflict some serious damage. Or...if oats can actually use multiple actions, that's another strong ability to protect. I don't like the chances on that compared to other things, because I would guess that Grey wouldn't give a scum with a very powerful ability the power to use 2 actions per night. I'd probably rather have one strong ability reserved for lategame than 2 smaller ones. | ||
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On December 10 2012 12:03 kitaman27 wrote: You people are impossible to please. I roleblocked mafia on 4 different occasions, opposed sandroba d1, wrote several cases against risk, pushed a VE lynch, and was the first person to question s&b's role and I still have to listen to this 3p nonsense? Don't make me flip that power switch of yours! I didn't mess you claiming 3P did I? | ||
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On December 10 2012 12:07 Promethelax wrote: Austin, say that again, but in English this time. Which bit? | ||
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On December 10 2012 12:08 Promethelax wrote: "I didn't mess you claiming 3p did I?" I actually have no idea what you are trying to say there. Gotcha. I vote acrofales, because I'd rather kill third party that I don't trust than someone I don't have a scumread on. Oats responded to that: On December 10 2012 11:18 Oatsmaster wrote: ##Vote: austinmcc Why not kita if you want to kill a 3rd party then? Acro has been pretty helpful for town, kita, not so much Kita responded with this: On December 10 2012 12:03 kitaman27 wrote: You people are impossible to please. I roleblocked mafia on 4 different occasions, opposed sandroba d1, wrote several cases against risk, pushed a VE lynch, and was the first person to question s&b's role and I still have to listen to this 3p nonsense? Don't make me flip that power switch of yours! When Oats posted his response, I didn't remember kita ever claiming to be third party. When kita responded without saying "...I'm not third party," it made me think I'd missed something. | ||
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On December 10 2012 12:17 Promethelax wrote: Fair. I saw your question after I posted mine and went 'oooooh good question' to myself. ^ | ||
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On December 10 2012 12:28 Adam4167 wrote: No, screw this dumb line of thinking. Acro has done more for this town than just about anyone and you want to lynch him while hes AFK? We lynch Austin today. You and Syllo both have this line of reasoning, and I don't understand it at ALL. (1) Acro has done more for this town than just about anyone (2) Acro is NOT town (3) We don't actually KNOW Acro's wincon or really what he does, in full You want to leave him alive because he's done a lot for town. But you know he's NOT town. If you were in a 3-man LYLO situation in another game, and one of the two other guys claimed scum in the the thread, just typed "I'm scum," but had been super townie all game and had made cases on his scumbuddies, etc., wouldn't you still lynch that guy? You wouldn't let scum win that game just because the scum player had helped town so much. Yes, Acro is probably not scum (technically, do we actually KNOW this? We just have a parity check, right?). But you don't know his wincon, you don't know what he can do next cycle, and you DO know that he won't add to town's KP against lavos. But it's cool, because he's helped town. That's the sort of thinking that makes Holy Roman happen. | ||
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I do loves me some speculation, so...was anyone else having similar thoughts? That we've got the remaining scum buried somewhere? Assuming scum DID bury someone, anyone else have ideas as to roles that you'd risk so much to protect? | ||
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On December 10 2012 12:59 Adam4167 wrote: Yeah I really don't care what happened in Holy Roman. I also don't care what Acro's win condition is at this point, I said earlier, I have no beef with 3rd party. What I see now is someone under suspicion trying to sway the town into voting a 3rd party because there's no more easy lynches. Hi there. I'm the easy lynch. | ||
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On December 10 2012 12:59 Adam4167 wrote: Yeah I really don't care what happened in Holy Roman. I also don't care what Acro's win condition is at this point, I said earlier, I have no beef with 3rd party. What I see now is someone under suspicion trying to sway the town into voting a 3rd party because there's no more easy lynches. This is what I'm talking about. We win by defeating lavos. Scum win by killing off town and having mafia alive. So what happens if all mafia are dead, we summon lavos, and he somehow wipes us? Nobody wins? Everyone loses but lavos? Grey has spent a lot of time crafting this game and hosting it, and I don't think that he'd leave this gaping hole in the setup where nobody wins. You've got no idea if Acro is the gap-filler. A third party that's pro-lavos. Working to summon lavos, but then against town once that happens. You may not have a beef with 3rd party now, but if that third party has a win condition that is actively anti-town, you darn well better have a beef with 3rd party. | ||
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I AM A BUNCH OF OLD, WISE DUDES Throughout history, old wise dudes have been proven to be (1) intelligent and (2) good at martial arts. Nobody has ever been trained in martial arts by a child, or a teenager, or even just a slightly-balding middle-aged man. No. If you really want good martial arts training, you find the oldest, most wrinkled, old dude in the land. He imparts all sorts of wisdom, you train under him, and you become awesome. That's how it works. Always. Daniel-san befriends Mr. Miyagi. Learns martial arts and important life lessons from Mr. Miyagi. At the final karate tournament, Daniel-san uses the crane kick to win. Lynching me is the equivalent of Daniel-san walking out of the ring in the final match and crane kicking Mr. Miyagi in the face. It's a bad idea, and it wouldn't be right. Master Splinter teaches the teenage mutant ninja turtles martial arts and ... how to live in the sewers or whatever. Do the teenage mutant ninja turtles ever get tired of fighting Shredder and decide to poke holes in Master Splinter with their weapons? No. Because that would be stupid, and they'd probably get fat and lazy and just eat pizza without his training. Are you seeing a pattern? Gandalf is old, although not necessarily good at martial arts. However, when some gimpy little midgets leave him to fall down a hole, what happens? He comes back and helps those same gimpy little midgets with his wise old man powers. Do the X-men ever think "gee, I haven't seen any bad mutants in a while, better just clobber Professor X today!"? No. He's an old man and he's got friggin' mind powers. He doesn't even have to be good at martial arts (probably isn't). He can probably force someone else (who IS good at martial arts) to fight for him. And he's pretty friggin' wise. Confucious, high expectations asian father, Doc Brown, Dumbledore, etc. I can keep going, but I think this should be apparent. You don't attack old, wise men. They are smart. They are good at martial arts. They are valuable assets. Everyone who has ever been trained by an old wise person DOESN'T GO AND ATTACK THAT OLD WISE PERSON. It's just wrong. | ||
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On December 10 2012 23:03 Acrofales wrote: With Phagga dead that leaves Adam, H1 and Hapa as possible scum. I agree, however, with austin when he says that it is really hard to see one of them as scum. Their filters read moderately townie. However, if austin is town, then he KNOWS one of them must be scum. Rather than figuring out which one, he decides to take the easy way out: lynch the 3rd party. There is a good chance town is not opposed to lynching 3P if they cannot find scum, so I am the lynch by default if austin can worm himself out of the lynch. Why? Because scummcc knows that any case he makes against Hapa, H1 or Adam will be unconvincing. If austin really was town, he would be looking for scum, not trying to lynch 3P. This is entirely false. This is the whole reason I'm advocating what I am. SOMEONE has to be scum. It does not HAVE to be one of those folks. Unless everyone else is also an innocent child, you're entirely discounting the idea that someone else is scum. If they hung on this long, I don't think it's because they've got one person under some suspicion and that's all that's left. They've got to have someone decently situated, with some kind of power they think can actually make a difference during the lavos fight. Conclusion: austinmcc does not care about the future, just about avoiding the lynch. austinmcc doesn't care about his abilities, because they were fake. austinmcc does not care about scumhunting, because he cannot find a way to credibly paint one of the remaining townies as scum. In closing, austinmcc is scum. Yes, I did not know if I had a 1999 power. Turns out I do, but no...didn't ask. Yes, that is exactly why I found SnB scummy. But my abilities aren't fake. I've proven one of them, the only one I've had a chance to, and I can tell you your exact hp after tonight. I happen to care enough about scumhunting not to fake it. I don't think any of the "easy" choices are scum, and looking elsewhere hasn't netted me someone that I actually think is scum yet. | ||
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On December 11 2012 00:31 Oatsmaster wrote: Wow austin, you shouldve put in this effort earlier. Anyway there is no way you could be looking scummier than you currently are. I don't care if I LOOK scummy for suggesting we kill acro. I care that I'm NOT SCUM. Put it this way... Oats. If you knew I was town, who would you be voting for today? Would you actually have another scumread right now? Or would you be unsure who the remaining scum was? | ||
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On December 11 2012 00:43 Oatsmaster wrote: Nope dont see anyone else. why? Cause you are the last scum :D Simple. Ta da. I know I'm town. I don't see anyone else. But yet not seeing anyone else is why some of these votes are on me. | ||
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On December 11 2012 01:00 Promethelax wrote: so you don't see anyone else but you think we should lynch Acro? Explain how that isn't an attempt to force a mislynch. ... Acro is 100% not town. Acro may or may not have a town-friendly wincon, but he's 100% not town. Any other target I chose is someone that I don't have a scumread on, that I think is town. I would rather lynch someone I know ISN'T town (and might be anti-town) than someone I think is. If I don't see anyone that I think is scum, then I'd rather drop the only player I know also isn't town. | ||
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On December 11 2012 01:08 Promethelax wrote: What?which is why I think you are scum. You need to go after 3p because this game has gone on long enough that we, as a town, are pretty clear on our townieness. There are only a few scummy players left and you called all the ones who aren't you town. So you went for the 3p. You are scum. I look forward to your lynch. Look at my filter. It's not like I hit today yelling "EVERYONE BUT PHAGGA IS TOWN GAIZ, EVERYONE BUT PHAGGA TOWN." There were a few other players who MIGHT have been scum, but I wasn't buying it based on setup, and then his filter fit with the setup speculation where maybe he could account for missing actions. But instead of limping onto another townread and trying to save my skin, this is what I'm doing. I don't think any of the other easy options are scum, which is what I've been saying all today, but it's not like that was set in stone earlier. I could have made a case on one or probably any of them if I was really, really trying to force this. | ||
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On December 11 2012 01:17 Oatsmaster wrote: This is so bad austin. Why should we kill acro? Do you think we will lose the game if he stays alive and you dont? My posts. Read them. No, I don't think he has a magical "town loses" spell. I DO think there's a decent chance he's anti-town/wins with lavos/whatever. But it's just a chance, and it wouldn't be some kind of instant loss. We should kill acro because I am town. He is not town. I don't know how to make it clearer than that. I would like to lynch scum, but I don't have any scumreads. So I've got to go with the least-townie option, as we can't no-lynch, and that's acro. Some of the votes on me aren't even "austinmcc scum." They're just "well, we can't no-lynch." For some of the players who think I'm scum, it's just process of elimination, without even considering that scum may have just planted someone to play the long game. I happen to know my alignment, so...sorry. I'm not buying into the austinmcc scum story. | ||
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Because...nobody seems to accept my other arguments? Because I have fun playing mafia, and it's slightly less fun when you're getting mislynched, so I'd prefer to play in a way that adds fun back into the game? It's not exactly the first time I've made a ridiculous post defending myself or attacking someone I think is scummy. See...the case/play I wrote about annul being a wank-fiend in Liquid City. See...batman. | ||
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On December 11 2012 01:30 Promethelax wrote: Austin, you were in WLIIA, right? On October 29 2012 04:27 iGrok wrote: Signups
Replacements I was not. | ||
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On December 11 2012 01:41 Promethelax wrote: oop, never mind, sorry. Did you red it? (this is relevant) No. Almost all recent games up until Whose Line and Mario Mini I read, but I actually have no read those two. I took a short break and missed them. | ||
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On December 11 2012 01:56 Promethelax wrote: it is not all that important if you haven't read it. I can explain my reasoning though. In WLIIA a scum (SnB) took an early lead by fake claiming a town power role but because of the mechanics had to fake a lot of his abilities. He did this by claiming useless checks, tracking the players who died at night, etc. I think Acro has done a very similar thing here in terms of the use of his powers (they have been sub-optimal in terms of the numbers of dead players checked) and I thought that you not calling him scum was weird since there was a recent example of just that play. Since you haven't read the game though it doesn't help. For you, Chronicler, anyone else who was wondering why I haven't called acro scum (recently) and am advocating my lynch choice for today as actually lynching a third party: On November 19 2012 09:43 GreYMisT wrote: Factions and win conditions At some point in the game Lavos will be summoned. The powers and nature of Lavos are hidden until 1999 AD. Win conditions are based around Lavos. Lavos will spawn at a predetermined time in the game. If all mafia die, Lavos will be summoned immediately. Town: Defeat Lavos. Mafia: Kill ALL town and have 1 mafia left alive Third Party: you thought i was going to tell you? haha. OP says there's a third party. One player has claimed third party. No other player has. As interesting as it would be for another third party player to slow roll this, knowing that the acro/hopeless parity check meant one of them was scum, that person hasn't come forward on the last day of the game, more or less. If there were another third party, they'd step up this cycle and say something. Nobody is, so I'm convinced Acro actually IS third party. I know that "hey guys lynch a third party, not me" isn't as compelling as me offering a solid case on someone who's red. But...it's what I've got. You guys can mislynch me, or you can lynch the one guy we KNOW isn't town. p.s. wise old men, etc. | ||
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On December 11 2012 02:03 Keirathi wrote: I don't know what you expect from a town austin, but accusing him for going after the 3rd party is silly. Not that I particularly want to lynch Acro either, but "I think you're scum. Go prove that you aren't by finding scum for us because I'm too lazy and don't feel like looking at anyone except you" is silly. | ||
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On December 11 2012 02:08 Oatsmaster wrote: I really dont see your point of reposting that austin. Also blue bolded? Again, since when is lynching 3rd party better than someone who almost everyone thinks is scum? READ MY POSTS. READ THE THREAD. READ. IT IS GOOD TO READ. IT IS BETTER TO LYNCH SOMEONE WHO IS 3RD PARTY THAN SOMEONE WHO ALMOST EVERYONE/50% + 1 PEOPLE/EVERYONE/WHATEVER THINKS IS SCUM WHEN THAT PERSON IS ACTUALLY TOWN. Just because you guys don't know I'm town like I do doesn't mean the above sentence is wrong. Your argument is that it's better to mislynch than to lynch a third party, just because of the belief that the mislynched player is scum. That is absolutely false and it's ridiculous. You feel very much like you want to lynch me , but are relying on particularly poor logic, like above. You admit that you don't have any reads beyond me, that there's nobody you'd want to lynch if you knew I was town, and yet you attack me for taking the same position. Because it's important to me, I'm going to repeat this. Your argument is that it's better to mislynch a townie than to lynch a third party, so long as people believe the mislynched player is scum. It's not. It never will be. If I'm going to get lynched, at least let it be by rational and logical people. | ||
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On December 11 2012 02:09 Keirathi wrote: Apparently I say silly more than I thought. It is a word that describes this situation. BUT NOT EVEN MY SILLY ARGUMENT IS WORKING. | ||
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On December 11 2012 02:45 Acrofales wrote: What I get from austin since my post: 1. I am in fact 3P (thank you, my role pm agrees with you). 2. Nobody else looks like scum. Therefore we should lynch 3P. Why, when we have obvious scum sitting right in front of us? I will simply repeat myself until the rest of town figures this out: austinmcc has not addressed the fact that he was not looking past preventing himself getting lynched by making a case on the ONLY person who he could possibly get town to switch to. He did not bother figuring out how his role worked, despite calling it scummy when SnB did not do that exact same thing. He cannot explain why the shield on Hapa appears to not have existed. He knows the rest of town has caught him out. He knows any case he makes on anybody else will look forced, because it WILL be forced (they're town after all). His only hope is to lynch the 3P. Now me being a survivor obviously has me with a vested interest in surviving, but even without that, it is clear that austin is scum. He's run out of rocks to hide under and that is about it. He first threw the towel in the ring with his wise men post, but rather than continuing to blazinghand up the thread in hilarious manner, he took the lifeline Oats threw him. Oh, and if you think I will be no help vs. Lavos, my 100 damage is worth 4 cycles of most townies being alive. I think I will more than pay for myself. I don't need your heals, I still have oodles of hitpoints. Rawr. I made a case on the guy that I read as scummy. I did not make a case on the people that I don't read as scummy. This is bad apparently. Yes, I did not ask what's up in 1999. I asked whether I could heal/shield myself (I can't), and I asked whether the shield was permanent or just blocked damage for one cycle. I did not ask this other question. You can say that not asking that question shows that I'm not caring about the future, but I think it's pretty clear I am. I'm actively concerned with your wincon when others aren't. I'm...I guess doing what I can about trying to make people think about what the remaining last scum could be/could have (That isn't much, because it's just making stuff up, but at the very least people need to get out of the mindset that they know everything...because we don't). And while yes, you claim to be able to do 100 damage and you claim you'll use that on lavos, we have no proof of either of those things. Same as you have no proof that I can do 300 damage with a shot, although I'd have to get hit first. If I were throwing in the towel with the wise men post, I wouldn't be making an effort. Silly lynches get silly responses, and I enjoy playing this game, and silly responses are one way to enjoy playing the game while getting lynched again. | ||
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On December 11 2012 03:25 kitaman27 wrote: If this were true and I were the last remaining scum, there wouldn't have been any factional KP 2 cycles ago when I healed iamperfection.Austin, unfortunately you’re at a point where the town cares more about ending the game, than identifying the final scum player. I could have been convinced to help swing the lynch to Acro, but I disagree with your assessment that not submitting a night action last night was the correct action. Perhaps whoever has to carry out the factional kp can’t act. Nobody else claimed that heal. clarity and Drazerk both died. No townie has claimed shooting clarity Risk was lynched, so we were already down to 1. | ||
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Syllo not caring about the game at this point and wanting to reward non-town acro for helping town aren't the towniest thing ever, but (1) I don't think scum would wait so long to set someone up with the damage; and (2) Syllo was townie to everyone BEFORE the damage, no need to shoot him (wastes heals, but wastes KP to do so). So if the last scum is sitting pretty, it's not due to taking night damage (unless they had an exceptionally crazy plan with syllo. Someone add to/subtract from my list if it's off. People who were more or less "confirmed" town early on? prom chronicler oats keirathi That's more like a list of "people who aren't the ones we were suspicious of late" but those lists should be the same afaik. | ||
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Scummy on syllo early Scummy on djodref early Claims partial vengeful, good way to avoid getting killed Had the shared damage PM mishap with syllo Based on just basic stuff like that, I don't think he's the scum. While scum may have wanted to kill syllo early, the scum syllo train never seemed to get rolling. The vengeful claim is a nice way to keep people away, add a downside to trying to kill him. But the shared PM bit makes him town in my book. Both parties back up the change in numbers, which makes it far more likely they DID share damage than not. We haven't seen anything else that would share damage, so we can assume Prom does have that ability. He shared damage with syllo, or claims to have, and scum was clearly trying to KILL syllo. He could have shared with other targets or just kept going in general, and so it doesn't seem like a good play to share damage THAT LATE when they're actually trying to kill syllo. Easy way to "confirm" himself early - take a little bit of damage N1 or N2 on someone that looks town, but why wait so long into the game to make that move? Doesn't make sense, therefore town. | ||
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On December 11 2012 04:48 Acrofales wrote: We know that risk invited syllo and GK into the tent. Either he wanted to chat with syllo twice, or he wanted syllo with him to help control discussion in the mason chat.If you're going to try to remake my list post which was in the very case against you, why are you starting with the assumption that Syllo is telling the truth about damage taken? Three quarters of the town is confirmed because they have consistently backed up each other's actions. Not because they have claimed to have taken damage. In other news: I read Hapa's filter and find he actually looks townier than last time I checked. The only possible way I can see him being scum after going nuts at phagga last cycle, is if he is scum together with austin. In that case, I still prefer to lynch austin first. While austinmcc is making a valliant attempt, he is still scum. If they wanted to team up and try to control discussion, then why not pick a more influential player? Then push an agenda within the mason tent on the third guy. Moreover, if syllo were lying, we should be seeing more damage claims from GK unless risk absolutely wasn't sending in night actions. Possible, but again less likely than the alternative. If syllo is scum, then risk just didn't do much with his power AND we SHOULD have some kp missing from the night that syllo claimed to take a boatload. Sorry, while I wish he'd quit lynching me and would actually think about what might happen tomorrow, I'm not buying him as scum. | ||
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On December 11 2012 05:17 Acrofales wrote: Not really the point I was trying to make, but at least you end up with the right conclusion and your reasoning makes sense. The reason Syllo is town is because: 1. If he had been scum with Sandro, he could simply have withheld his scumread on Sandro and laughed their way to the bank on D1. 2. He put together a successful party. We have seen that party with Keirathi and a 3P fails. It seems impossible that Syllo is scum based on the D1 party. 3. He blew risk.nuke's mason chat wide open. If this was a scumplan, it was retarded. 4. He claimed watcher seeing SnB visit someone he shouldn't. Killing yet another scum. With all of this pretty much confirming Syllo as town, his damage claim sounds truthful. NOT the other way round. If you want, I can do this for all the people I marked as green in my list. Could save you about 350 pages of filters before you are forced to conclude that you, in fact, are the final scum. Blowing up the scum team is one thing that I'm looking for at this point, as dumb as it sounds. If nobody is obvious, or even remotely obvious, then someone has to be hidden. Stuff like harping on Sandro early and backing himself up with risk/SnB late is the kind of thing that fits what I'm looking for. But I don't like the damage and some of the other aspects for syllo in particular. | ||
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Keirathi Claims low success modifier (avoid being put in parties, avoid town seeing keirathi-parties fail) Maintained had to be in party to get powers (could account for some missing night actions if lying) Very concerned about parity checks If I just skim through filter, this post is...tiny and forgotten, but neat: On December 01 2012 09:08 Keirathi wrote: It was probably the QT link and team members. We still don't know what was missing from Toad's role PM. I heart me some speculation too, but...if you're looking for cracks in someone who seems townie, this is one of those times where it's possible someone has more information than they should. Keirathi comes out looking like the most likely candidate to me. Except that he WAS IN two parties and they succeeded. We don't know exactly how modifiers work, but people still took him and still succeeded. And this post feels genuinely frustrated: On November 30 2012 11:58 Keirathi wrote: Anddddd...That's why my role sucks and is boring. Literally every single person in the game thinks that I am town (or at least, no one has expressed otherwise), yet people still don't want to include me in parties. My abilities rely on my being in them. Otherwise, I'm just a VT. Hell, not even a VT; WORSE than a VT because people don't want to include me to parties even though they believe that I am town. Keirathi has the most little niggling questions, but ... reads as town. Actively trying to figure out what's going on, make reads, lightly push his own reads, townKeirathi-esque. And he's got the right read on me, so there's that. So...I don't like any of the people that weren't even in consideration yesterday for the gig. Which leaves me back at the people who have KP and some unexplained nights, and one of them being the guy? I guess I'll take another peek at them. | ||
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On December 11 2012 05:41 Acrofales wrote: Hmmrmm, I see I forgot about Keirathi on my list. I will have to go over his filter again. I had him down as town for a number of things: 1. He was on a successful party 2. The whole "low success modifier" was too weird for a fakeclaim when the OP explicitly states that the success modifier was hidden. His reaction at me made sense. 3. He claims he gets abilities from successful parties he's on. By being on the party he was able to jail syllo. Syllo claimed roleblocked and nobody counterclaimed. Other nights he claimed no abilities. Number 3 means that either scum has a roleblocker who only roleblocked once (all other blocks are claimed), or roleblocked people like CJ. There also seems to be less KP on N2 than on N1 or N3, making it likely that scum targeted Syllo while he was jailed. The rest of my town read on Keirathi was based on him not playing like scum. Also, Tata makes absolutely perfect sense for Keirathi's earlier claims. It is a hilarious troll role by Greymist. He was on one successful party and one unsuccessful. The low success modifier WAS a weird fakeclaim. We haven't seen other scum pms talking about success modifiers, so it's not even like scum would all know what theirs was. It's...a neat idea, but feels like a weird thing to fake, I agree. Number 3 is definitely possible. The scum version is that he's the guy who can RB, might actually be a scum JOAT and just didn't use that on other nights. One quality that the remaining scum member has to have is the ability to account for a variety of inconsistencies - there are all sorts of bits and pieces that STILL don't fit, afaik, even with things like "Oh yeah guys, I'm town and didn't tell you I could take 2 actions until just now? Oops." Something like a JOAT could fill in holes, but again...I agree that Keirathi has been playing like town, and like town-Keirathi specifically. He fits the bill for some reasons, but his play doesn't. With night actions though, he's right up there with Adam for "Nope, officer, I ain't done nothing on no nights. Wasn't me." As long as he CAN rb/jail someone, he could have done so for syllo. His only other claimed night action is a duplicate track, easy to fake. | ||
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I'm left thinking that my silly arguments have not been silly ENOUGH. You will remember that (1) Old dudes are wise and good at martial arts. Now it's time to reveal the following - (2) Leonardo DiCaprio is not an old dude; (3) I'm pretty sure Inception didn't end perfectly for him - either he's trapped in a dream or he got some friends shot or whatever. Point being, OLD DUDES GOOD, LEONARDO DiCAPRIO YOUNG AND BAD. Keirathi has claimed to be a child, pretty much the direct opposite of an old dude. I don't think he's scum, but as a child he's far less useful than I during lavos. Children are bad at martial arts (exception: children receiving extensive training from wise old dudes are good at martial arts). Anyway, the point of all that is that I have to go deeper. Leonardo DiCaprio failed to save the world or his friends or whatever was going on, but I'm old so I can do better. I will get sillier, and therefore somehow convince you of the silliness of this lynch. Silly-ception, if you will. Let's begin, cue the music. (1) I will note again that I am 3 old dudes. Not only wise and good at martial arts, but THREE of them. As far as I know, every other player has roleclaimed a single person/thing. That is 1/3 as useful as me. 1/3 the legs, 1/3 the arms. You are to me what someone with only 2/3 of a single nipple is to you (hopefully). Not only am I old, but THREE is more than ONE. Therefore, I shouldn't be the lynch based on math (and nipple density). I'm pretty sure robo doesn't even HAVE nipples. Simply put, however awesome your role is, or however townie you think you are, I'm 3x that amount. (2) Acro is banking on you believing that he has 100 KP he will use on Lavos every cycle. I have a 300 KP nuke, and as long as Lavos attacks me I can use it on him. That's 3 times his KP. If he's worth 4 townies of damage, I'm worth 13 (12 25-point townie increments + the 25 points of me being alive and not Acro). Not only am I worth 3+ times as many townies as Acro is in damage (assuming Lavos damages me), but I also, again, have more nipples. That's like...two mathematical superiorities right there (Reminder - two is more than one, so that's pretty much THREE ways I'm mathematically superior to keep around for lavos). (3) Today was magical rainbow shell day. I'm the dude who helps you craft stuff with rainbow shells in the game. My PM says nothing about it, but it's probably EXTREMELY BAD LUCK to kill me on the same day you might get a rainbow shell. Lavos is somewhat similar to a kraken --> gracken --> Idra. Everyone knows that if you beat Idra, it's not because you were skilled, you were probably lucky. Picking up EXTREMELY BAD LUCK before you fight lavos, who is similar to idra, who you need luck to kill, SEEMS LIKE A VERY BAD PLAN. I...I think that's all the stupidity I have remaining. I don't know if it's enough to counteract the stupidity of this lynch, but I may as well try. If those new arguments don't convince you, then gl with lavos and plox to win this one. I really hope we aren't screwed over because of acro or something else you guys (but not Keirathi and sometimes not iamperfection) missed in your bloodthirst to kill me. | ||
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Out of the folks under recent suspicion, the two that make the most sense are the ones that don't have a lot of actions accounted for. Adam, hapahauli (a lot of his actions are either protection on himself or claimed damage on people who died), goodkarma (I still don't know how the numbers would work out, but his charging could be a way to account for some of the actions wonkiness). | ||
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##self-destruct I'll be going now. Acro, enjoy getting lynched. The rest of you, enjoy the parting gift, and thanks for leaving me alive until the last cycle so you won't have time to recover before Lavos drops. It's been a ... (/sunglasses) ... blast. | ||
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Didn't go enough to try and take control of anything when I joined, had no clue what was going on and what everyone had claimed/done/taken in terms of damage. Still don't have much of a clue, lol. I still can't believe you lynched a bunch of innocent old men, but I do appreciate the phagga lynch. I didn't think I'd be able to get out of things, even though I didn't think the lynch on me was particularly strong. BIG thanks to Grey and mementoss for hosting this. Ended up being quite a bit of fun. | ||
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On December 13 2012 11:34 Adam4167 wrote: I really started to question whether or not you were scum somewhere a day or two after you joined. Then I went back and reread Zbosons filter and just convinced myself all over again. It really sucked for both of us, since you couldn't defend his actions and apparently no one wanted to hear about the person that used to occupy your role. Yeah, nothing I can do about Z-bosons actions or posts. For reference, he actually DID take no action on Cycle 3, and then again Cycles 5 and 6. Grey asked me to replace during 5 but I wanted to try and catch up on the thread, which I failed at, so I came in 6 still behind. Oh well. I was hoping to get a little cred from not shooting you later on, but just didn't do enough with it and I think maybe chose a bad target with my faked action claims. Not sure if the outcome would have been different had I given better targets though. | ||
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On December 13 2012 11:44 Acrofales wrote: As someone trying his ass off to get you lynched, it was quite annoying.The rest of the game I was pretty much forced into overdrive activity, because most townies could get semi-confirmed with their roles or being on a party, while I would always be a possible lynch unless there was someone who most of town was convinced was scum. Scum can gain some town credit by pushing a 3P lynch, while uncertain townies can lynch a 3P when uncertain about who is scum, so I had to be extra active and scumhunt like crazy to save my ass from townies who might want to lynch me. I'm glad to hear that almost all of the people who brought it up were scum. Thanks again to Greymist and Mementoss for this game Even knowing you were 3P, town should have been almost CERTAIN that you were lying about something, be it role or wincon (or at least townaustin would have been). And yet there was almost no desire to lynch you even though this wasn't a normal game, but a game that ended in an event that already carried a lot of uncertainty. It's a credit to how useful you were and well you played that friggin' town wouldn't lynch you just to make sure you didn't screw things up for them during Lavos. | ||
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On December 13 2012 11:21 Toadesstern wrote: I think that if there are two things that could have balanced the game out slightly (besides us playing better early), it was (1) scum KP usage and (2) events.ycle 1 was retarded with Z-Boson's "lolol, let's splitt up damage in 20HP clusters to confuse the shit out of town" plan. And ever after that everything went south due to protection. You can believe me, we tried to kill people off but it was incredibly hard. Syllo was alive till the end without taking a serious amount of damage although he probably ate half our factional damage in total. Dieno survived for ages as well. We just weren't able to kill people at all, which is fine for a resistance style game but for that kind of a game you need many active mafia players. Sandro was decent (until he got busted, which we should have seen comming earlier... Sandro is known to have troubles playing mafia due to his amazing town), Risen was good, especially thanks to the bus but other than that most people on team mafia played with the mindset of not getting lynched imo. Noone besides Risen in our team looked townish AT ALL and you just can't win a resistance game like that. We needed to get in the events but then again with this game dragging out so long getting into an event basicly means insta confirmed mafia. It WAS difficult to kill people, given that we didn't know HPs, there were so many healers, and some of our KP was heavily conditional (I had to get shot, risen had a chance to do good damage, risk needed to mason someone, snb needed claims). If the stars aligned, we could have maybe dropped 1-2 people a night, but it felt very difficult. I think that had we realized that, we could have used KP to bus. There were so many people in the endgame that were just barely, barely townie, and only because scum had no very townie players apart from Risen. If, instead of using the first 2 cycles of KP spread on a bunch of targets, we'd blown the crap out of a scum player or two, we may well have been able to carry them to the endgame. If we couldn't use the KP to kill, we should have been bussing JUST enough to make people disregard 1-2 scum members. I know I missed most of the events, but the events to lynches ratio also felt off to me. Even though we couldn't be guaranteed kills every night we wanted them, if the cycle was an event then we at least didn't run a chance of getting lynched. I suppose better play = less lynches on scum, but towards the end of the game I was just praying for an event and we didn't get one through like 4 cycles. I was so happy to get a mislynch on phagga, hoping the last day would be an event and I could make it lategame, but then it was just another lynch. Something about the lack of events late meant that town could go snb --> risk (and VE) --> me pretty quickly, without time for anyone to turn their play around naturally, without the pressure of a lynch. | ||
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On December 13 2012 11:58 Acrofales wrote: Would probably have been better to claim a heal on someone who had claimed no damage up to that point. The shield stuck around and it was therefore weird when damage didn't add up. A heal at full HP would go unnoticed. However, substituting in, I don't blame you for missing that little bit when people kicked up a shitstorm about Hapa not claiming healed. Other than that, I was actually quite scared you'd actually convince town to switch onto me. I was pretty sure you were scum, but I was 3P so my case might not have been trusted and you somehow managed to convince town off yourself and onto phagga the day before when I was away at the beach. I gave Risen credit for his scumplay, but you deserve a hand as well. You went down fighting tooth and nail and that ##self-destruct had me pretty scared for the hour before the resolution. I made the mistake of not planning out fake actions before I claimed my abilities. Once I claimed abilities and was in thread, felt that I had to answer very quickly as to who Z-BosoN had taken actions on. Probably panicked more than I should have, and could have pretended to wait on the answer. iirc, I chose targets that Z-BosoN was townie on for the shields. I thought people got notified of heals, so I didn't want to claim heals that wouldn't have had notifications. But I didn't fully vet my targets with what actions they'd claimed had occurred, I never collected all that information myself and it screwed me over there. Haha, I was hoping that self-destruct would make you squirm for an hour. I actually really wanted to claim that scum had a variable KP system. We had x KP every night, and could exchange some KP for factional abilities like roleblocks/frames/etc. I just loved the idea of trying to convince town that there were few factional kills because we'd been trading our KP for death miller flips, and that some of the "easy" lynches that went through were actually on townies we'd turned into death millers. | ||
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On December 13 2012 12:04 Acrofales wrote: Not sure what role to nominate for best role award. I really liked Dalton's countdown. Had me really twisted up trying to figure out what the hell it did. Norstein Bekker was also good. Master of Kitchens on the townside maybe, but I am not sure what his stuff actually did or how it worked at all, because Drazerk, as always lied his ass off about all of it. When Drazerk claimed to have "Meat Essence" I automatically assumed he was lying. | ||
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On December 13 2012 12:07 Acrofales wrote: Oh, psssts + Show Spoiler + VE has no competition for best 3P player in the 2012 awards, do something about it! Haha. I will note though that I kind of agree with Mementoss's post in obs that you played a little TOO townie for 3P. Some of the game being in the bag was due to you, but if the game had been just a little less in the bag, you may have had a much harder time convincing town to kill toad before lavos. | ||
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