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Acrofales
Spain18159 Posts
On November 22 2012 20:57 risk.nuke wrote: Goodkarma, exclude oats from your mission team and you have my vote. Trust and something approaching praise coming from risk.nuke, how... unusual. Risk, what do you feel is wrong with Sandro and Syllo at the moment? | ||
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
On November 22 2012 21:14 Acrofales wrote: Trust and something approaching praise coming from risk.nuke, how... unusual. Risk, what do you feel is wrong with Sandro and Syllo at the moment? I don't know what you are talking about Acro. As for Oats, He made a tunnelcase on clarity and when it didn't work he tried the yell higher approach. I also didn't like that he voted toad who's notoriously difficult to read but that is a lesser concern. My main problem with oats is he hasn't really done anything in actual terms to distinguish himself as town while he's playing one of the easier ways to play as scum. Furthermore I get the feeling of two sides of him. One calm and considerate and one yell as high as you can side. Right now I don't have an abundant of trust for syllogism and sandroba wants to send oats. I have townreads goodkarma and Djodref. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
I mean "nirvana strike" isn't exactly the most imaginative, what makes you so sure it's an actual thing, marv? | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
In no particular order: 1) Djo 2) phagga 3) dieno (only because dieno has made a role-claim I am inclined to cautiously believe...) I will be around the next thirty minutes, and will review the thread briefly afterwards in about six hours. Please discuss any thoughts or concerns you have of these players before then. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On November 22 2012 21:43 Clarity_nl wrote: I just caught up, there's actually not a lot in the last 10 pages. The most interesting thing was kush's "action", which could be real or false given the heavy flavor. People seemed to ignore it for a bit, djo pointed it out and people still ignored it. Marv finally ended up reacting to it quite violently as if he was really pissed and knew what was going to happen...? I mean "nirvana strike" isn't exactly the most imaginative, what makes you so sure it's an actual thing, marv? where did you get "makes marv so sure it's an actual thing" from me saying "if he's telling the truth"? | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Also out of the 4 candidates, who are you leaning to now? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On November 22 2012 21:49 goodkarma wrote: Okay, I have finalized my team. It will be of an unusual composition (of the semi-lurker variety). Since mafia needs to influence party compositions in this game it is to their advantage to be proactive and not lurking. As such, I have chosen those I see as both pro-town and semi-lurking. These individuals I feel have been semi-lurking while contributing genuinely to the thread their own thoughts and opinions about the current game mechanics and other players. These are currently my strongest town reads.: In no particular order: 1) Djo 2) phagga 3) dieno (only because dieno has made a role-claim I am inclined to cautiously believe...) I will be around the next thirty minutes, and will review the thread briefly afterwards in about six hours. Please discuss any thoughts or concerns you have of these players before then. Earlier Djo was your 'weakest' read and I can't find any particular mention of phagga. Explain your choices please. 100% I would not vote for you based on these choices at the moment. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18159 Posts
There is one post in particular that made alarmbells go off and I don't know how people read this without it just setting off scumdars. It's long, so in spoilers: + Show Spoiler + On November 22 2012 12:11 goodkarma wrote: My current thoughts on party leader: So... It would seem that syllo has yet to make any additional moves, and sandoba, while back, hasn't really made that much of an additional comment on his party he's taking with him. This sounds insincere. He phrases it as if this is a bad thing, but all we really need to know is whether the party leader is town and able to pick other townies accurately. Why is no additional moves a negative reflection on them? Firstly, sandroba has now made it clear that he strongly believes syllo to be town. I do not have the "meta" read priveleges that he does, and as such, cannot make this read. Yet, at this point I would go so far as to say that sandroba has put so much faith into syllo that a vote for either is semi-interchangable. Between the two of them, I see one party leader ticket. I don't have presently a town read on syllo, and so am less comfortable voting for Sandroba than I previously was. Clearly false, as Syllo had already said that he thought there was a good chance Sandro was scum. Moreover, the whole game, Syllo has been far more reserved towards Sandro than the other way round. Sandro seems to have an early town read on Syllo, while the reverse was quite obviously not true: in fact, reading between the lines the opposite could be expected, because Syllo said he'd be lazy if he was confident in Sandro, yet decided to run for leader all the same. Sandroba, who was someone I was very excited about having as party leader with his solid early ideas for how to select his party, also has yet to provide some idea of who he's considering at present for his party. This is another point that makes me less comfortable voting Sandroba. I'm still leaning towards sandroba being town, but I question why it is he has become fairly quiet relative to the beginning of the game. So, in Summary...: While many here give Sandroba/Syllo respect for being a "vet," it's incredibly hard for me to sort through a sea of one-liners and go, "That guy is definitely town..." Actually, insert Marv's name here too as he's guiltiest of this... Fair enough. My Current Plan: I will be reassessing my reads by going back through everyone's filters, and selecting my own party. There are plenty here who are not as familiar with my "meta," or who have never played with me before. I can understand how it is that it would be hard for them to vote for me or take me as seriously as their favorite vet. However, blindly voting your favorite guy is a system I refuse to be a part of. The heavy vet preference from other players comes, as best I can tell, from this logic: "Well, I'm too lazy/incompetent/troll to play this game so I want to vote for someone who I know actually tries..." Blatant misrepresentation of people's thought process. While I appreciate that you don't want to follow Sandroba and/or Syllogism, you are insinuating that anybody voting for a veteran is a sheeple. Some might be, but others have a conscious decision process. Electing someone you trust to form a good party is important, because that is ALL you have control over. The criteria for a good party leader are: he's town and he's able to pick other town. That invariably leads to veterans over newbies, because of the second criteria. The ONLY question is thus whether a veteran, who we have all established can read townies well, is actually town. At this point you seem to think Sandroba is town, yet are doing everything to discredit him. What I am left with is a sense of unease about why you want to be party leader so badly. So your reads on others may not be perfect, but who cares? Why even bother playing a game of mafia if you're just going to throw all your eggs into one basket like all you who have voted for sandroba/syllo have? I myself would rather put all my money on red at the roulette table + Show Spoiler + (I know, how cliche -_-) More of the same. However, there is more here: people are not implicitly trusting Sandroba (Syllo would be blind faith in his ability to pick town): Sandroba is giving out his newbie town reads that he intends to take along with him, and it has been my impression from the start of the game that he would be upfront with this information. You are thus misrepresenting Sandro (not Syllo) as a gamble on their ability to pick town, which is simply not true. Mafia manipulation: Many of you seem to fear that it will be super-easy for mafia to hide in a setup where they don't necessarily need to spend all that much time faking scumhunting. But when you blindly vote for one guy you are missing an amazing opportunity to spot them out. By voting for a known 4-person party (where the party leader presents his choices) you are doing a better job of forcing their hand. They will be trying to steer the vote towards selecting their own members, and their voting should reflect that. Has advantages and disadvantages. A 4-man team that has a scum will be more likely to get scum backing than a 4-man team without that member. However, without the posterior information that the team actually failed (and therefore had scum in it), that backing is meaningless. I prefer to have successful teams that go a long way to confirm town members than unsuccessful teams. Especially without a lynching mechanism. Even then, it is a 4-man team and I really doubt we have the resources to do 3-1 trades. As an added bonus, this allows you to spread your risk. You can determine if the choices of the party leader match up to your own, and at least to some degree, determine how likely it is that the party has a mafia member in it. By voting for a singular leader, it's an all or nothing proposition. They get their candidate in, or they don't. Either way, we get far less information from that. We will not be able to narrow down what went wrong should things go wrong. Is it a scum party leader with questionable choices or a town party leader with questionable choices? The only way you'd know for sure is to lynch every party leader who fails his mission... This is a system I am wholeheartedly opposed to. Still. I don't know why you think anybody was doing this at this point... In Conclusion: Nothing in this game is certain, but what I am certain of is that there's not a snowflake's prayer in hell I'm voting for either sandroba or syllo (or should I say sandollo?) until they provide more information on who they're bringing and why. I wasn't altogether serious about "running for office" before but I am now. I am unhappy with what I see and will be making a post outlining who I'll bring and why within the next couple hours. Fair enough. I got the general sense of unease in that he was misrepresenting Sandroba's campaign and misrepresenting people's intentions for voting. This is manipulative. I am still not sure it's scum manipulative, or a townie who is doing the wrong thing because he really wants to get a shot at leading a party. Either way, I felt uncomfortable reading this post and the rest of GK's filter does not swing me towards a town interpretation of the manipulation. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On November 22 2012 21:49 marvellosity wrote: where did you get "makes marv so sure it's an actual thing" from me saying "if he's telling the truth"? Kind of because of the order of your post: You get very pissed at him, and you'll never play with him again.... if it's true. I don't know what the point of faking it is, Oats, but from the games I've read if anyone would do such a thing it's Kush. I'll get back to you about the candidates as I'm still reading. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18159 Posts
On November 22 2012 21:43 Clarity_nl wrote: I just caught up, there's actually not a lot in the last 10 pages. The most interesting thing was kush's "action", which could be real or false given the heavy flavor. People seemed to ignore it for a bit, djo pointed it out and people still ignored it. Marv finally ended up reacting to it quite violently as if he was really pissed and knew what was going to happen...? I mean "nirvana strike" isn't exactly the most imaginative, what makes you so sure it's an actual thing, marv? It's an ability that Cyrus has in Chrono Trigger (yes, I looked that shit up in the chronopedia). Kush claims Cyrus and Nirvana Strikes marv. I can see no reason for Kush, who is playing a lousy game (even lousier than usual), to jump out of nowhere, fakeclaim and fake-ability Marv. It just makes way more sense for this to be real. And given the way he did it, he is expecting to suicide with it. It is pathetic, but I see no reason to mistrust its authenticity. | ||
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
On November 22 2012 21:42 Oatsmaster wrote: What do you mean by the yell higher approach? and can you quote both sides of me? When you typed your case and you repeatedly told everyone to go back and look at your case asking for opinions. I might not had found it suspicious if it wasn't because the case was impossible-to-not-see terrible. Some of the post you make indicate that you are capable of staying composed and focused when you post. So why do other parts of your filter look like you're just letting your mouth run. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On November 22 2012 21:55 Acrofales wrote: It's an ability that Cyrus has in Chrono Trigger (yes, I looked that shit up in the chronopedia). Kush claims Cyrus and Nirvana Strikes marv. I can see no reason for Kush, who is playing a lousy game (even lousier than usual), to jump out of nowhere, fakeclaim and fake-ability Marv. It just makes way more sense for this to be real. And given the way he did it, he is expecting to suicide with it. It is pathetic, but I see no reason to mistrust its authenticity. Right, it could be fake, but the natural and probable assumption is that it isn't. There's not a lot else to say on the matter. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
I wasnt asking people to read the case, I was asking for opinions on it, sorry if it came out that way. Too many negatives in your second sentence that I dont really understand. If I make a terrible case and no one says anything, I may unknowingly keep doing it which isnt good. I may have gone over the top and I am sorry if it irritated you. | ||
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
On November 22 2012 21:56 marvellosity wrote: Right, it could be fake, but the natural and probable assumption is that it isn't. There's not a lot else to say on the matter. Kush can you explain your ability, why you targeted marv? And can you potentially abort it? | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
Sandro: you said that you don't mind me being the leader. Does that mean you are open to throwing your support behind me and withdrawing your nomination? | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On November 22 2012 21:55 Acrofales wrote: It's an ability that Cyrus has in Chrono Trigger (yes, I looked that shit up in the chronopedia). Kush claims Cyrus and Nirvana Strikes marv. I can see no reason for Kush, who is playing a lousy game (even lousier than usual), to jump out of nowhere, fakeclaim and fake-ability Marv. It just makes way more sense for this to be real. And given the way he did it, he is expecting to suicide with it. It is pathetic, but I see no reason to mistrust its authenticity. Yeah I'm not planning to let it affect me until we get flip information but marv's post just seemed oddly made. I guess I should keep stuff like that to myself until it actually tells me something. As for the candidates, since you asked Oats, I see no reason to switch from syllo. I'm glad Kita became active again but I don't like his "I am back, let's make a big fuss and make jokes!" It's really good he's making reads though, or at least giving reasons to not take people. If I were to switch it would be goodkarma and I might do that if syllo doesn't come back and add some more of his thoughts. | ||
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
On November 22 2012 22:03 Oatsmaster wrote: Cause I am letting my mouth run? I wasnt asking people to read the case, I was asking for opinions on it, sorry if it came out that way. Too many negatives in your second sentence that I dont really understand. If I make a terrible case and no one says anything, I may unknowingly keep doing it which isnt good. I may have gone over the top and I am sorry if it irritated you. It didn't irritate me, it made me suspicious of your behaviour which contrary to irritation is alignment indicative. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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