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Chrono Trigger Mafia - Page 325

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
December 05 2012 17:45 GMT
#6481
This game would probably be completely solvable based on actions alone if Dienosore had claimed who he targeted every night
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
December 05 2012 17:47 GMT
#6482
Yeah well it would've been easier too (presumably), had he submitted his party.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
December 05 2012 17:48 GMT
#6483
On December 06 2012 02:47 Clarity_nl wrote:
Yeah well it would've been easier too (presumably), had he submitted his party.


if only he could hold all those names.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18473 Posts
December 05 2012 17:48 GMT
#6484
On December 06 2012 02:42 kitaman27 wrote:
I can account for the missing roleblocks.

I didn't claim it earlier because I felt there was little reason to at the time with the lynches already decided.

I couldn't rb night one, night two I was on nuke, three and four I was on toad, five and seven on cave, and six on VE.

Just because the roleblock on risk is accounted for, doesn't mean that he is clear. I've already brought up the over enthusiastic town read on sandroba day one and how he shows a contradiction in logic when defending GK for shooting Cave, yet providing a scum read on myself who also shot cave. The use of his role is silly from a town perspective and he provides very few opinions.

That being said...town having 3 roleblockers, compared to the single roleblocker flip from the scum team is quite strange...especially considering sandroba couldn't roleblock every cycle and there are so many blues the mafia has to deal with. We know Cave has a roleblocking ability that he claims is a jail. I have a town read on syllo and a slightly weaker town read on prom (mainly due to the strength of his role).

Cave, I'm quite disappointed that you decided to pass on the opportunity to provide us with 16 fake claims in the same post. You have a reputation to uphold!

This just makes shit even weirder.

N3: CJ claimed roleblocked yet you claim to roleblock Toad. I got news, because I did that.
N6: CJ claimed he could levitate.

Nights 3 and 4 you claimed you hit CJ for 50 damage. Now that is in addition to roleblocking Toad?
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
December 05 2012 17:48 GMT
#6485
On December 06 2012 02:48 Promethelax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2012 02:47 Clarity_nl wrote:
Yeah well it would've been easier too (presumably), had he submitted his party.


if only he could hold all those names.


I laughed so hard, but I couldn't make myself admit that at the time.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
December 05 2012 17:50 GMT
#6486
I guess kita you have stances too
Adam4167
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia1426 Posts
December 05 2012 17:52 GMT
#6487
We are yet to flip any form of scum healer. I sincerely doubt we had 3 town sided healers and the scum team had none.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
December 05 2012 17:56 GMT
#6488
guys...
On December 05 2012 21:33 CaveJohnson wrote:
##Lynch: CaveJohnson

TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18473 Posts
December 05 2012 17:58 GMT
#6489
For the sake of sorting this out, I will claim some things. Firstly, I have fulfilled my secondary wincon. All I need to do now is survive.

My actions:

N1: hoped for mason, was a multishot. 75 damage to Dieno, Sandro and BioSC/VE.
N2: hoped for DT check, got a DT check on Toad.
N3: hoped for a big nuke. Got a nuke + jail. Did 100 damage and jailed Toad.
N4: hoped for a damage redirector. Got a useless shield. Was supposed to shield me for equal to the damage my target took. Targeted Kita, who probably took 0 damage. Also possible that I took 75 damage from the event and my shield was not yet working.
N5: hoped for a nuke, got a "player cannot target you for 2 cycles", but it failed anyway. I targeted Toad just in case he didn't die to the lynch.
N6: hoped for a nuke, got a special kind of watcher/tracker thing that is completely useless now, but would've been nice if I hadn't yet fulfilled my wincon. Targeted CJ
N7: hoped for a nuke, got a QT. Targeted CJ.

All my actions are breadcrumbed rather awesomely. However, they are breadcrumbed by action name, which if I reveal reveals my rolename, which I am not going to do. If you really want, I can give you my fakeclaim and the corresponding action names from my fake claim.

I still have 2 abilities left that I can only use on myself. I suspect one is a heal and the other is a damage reflection. However, I have only been right ONCE with my guesses of what my abilities do and that is because the ability was called "Mind Read".
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
December 05 2012 18:00 GMT
#6490
What was your secondary wincon?
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18473 Posts
December 05 2012 18:03 GMT
#6491
On December 06 2012 03:00 Keirathi wrote:
What was your secondary wincon?

If I say that, it is ridiculously easy to guess my rolename.
GreYMisT
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States6736 Posts
December 05 2012 18:03 GMT
#6492
On December 06 2012 02:48 Clarity_nl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2012 02:48 Promethelax wrote:
On December 06 2012 02:47 Clarity_nl wrote:
Yeah well it would've been easier too (presumably), had he submitted his party.


if only he could hold all those names.


I laughed so hard, but I couldn't make myself admit that at the time.


+ Show Spoiler +
That was my hope
"life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery" / Join TL Mafia! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
December 05 2012 18:03 GMT
#6493
Can you claim your secondary win con?
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 05 2012 18:07 GMT
#6494
On December 06 2012 03:03 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2012 03:00 Keirathi wrote:
What was your secondary wincon?

If I say that, it is ridiculously easy to guess my rolename.


Is that a bad thing? I mean if you're fearful of another player killing you, certainly you claiming third party and being so overt about it would have ended with you dead already.
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 05 2012 18:07 GMT
#6495
@Hapa
On December 04 2012 15:03 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Hopeless

I'm parsing through your Z-Boson case and I don't agree with it at all. Your 3rd section (about his voting actions on D2) rather strongly indicates that he's town to me.

So Z-Boson has put heavy pressure on StrongandBig (who we're all expecting to flip scum) in the very early game. Then hypothetical scum-ZBo turns down a really easy bussing opportunity (Sandro) to... vote ANOTHER of his teammates? I'm not buying it. He's a bit all-over the place, but it's not scummy at all.

He definitely could be scum but I think his early-game actions speak against it. Furthermore, calling damage-night actions on a replacement is a pretty bad idea. Especially austin, who IMO is pretty easy to read.


The thing about the day 2 voting is that he was on the fence about sand most of the day, spent all of his activity on TC and his Toad suspicions were held in the back of his mind. He never voted for TC and never gave more reasoning on Toad other than Acro's case and Toads activity being different than that game Toad was an Assassin. His aversion to sandroba's wagon based on the days activity is scummy to me. I feel like if just a couple more people had voted TC, he would have been all over that and would have just ignored Toad altogether.

Also, I never explicitly tried to call vig shots on austin (and I've claimed temporary VT), I meant I was going to try to get him flipped via lynch.

As for his "heavy pressure", Z-Bo's case on SnB was complete ass, as Adam has tried to explain to you already.
- SnB has played a ton of games with marv, and has a town read on marv super early.
- SnB's filter looks like his town filter from Mario Mini.
- SnB scum, shoot plox.

I realize the first point is trying to say that marv's activity early in this game is different than others, but I don't think thats necessarily true, and SnB is a WAY better gauge of that than Z-Bo is. His scumread on SnB is complete bullshit, even if it was correct.


I'm looking through SnB's filter, and austin calls him out for not checking in with GreY regarding his role mechanics, and this does feel townie to me, especially the reference to the CPR Doc. it looks like austin is trying to figure things out and can't see a town reason for SnB to do what he did.
+ Show Spoiler +
On December 03 2012 06:33 strongandbig wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2012 06:28 austinmcc wrote:
SnB
Leaning scum. Mainly based on the roleclaim, because ... that's the thing I most have to work with. Forget the rolenaming. Forget his other stupid ability that he claimed. He says:
My main ability is Secrets of the Nu, which is the 250 damage/+300 max hp ability


(1) SnB says he never asked Grey how this works. Other people seem to be expressing concern that he equated +max HP with "heal" without checking with Grey. Yes, that's questionable.

But beyond that...SnB isn't an idiot. If that were actually SnB's ability, he would absolutely have to check with Grey, because...it frigging does 250 damage. The way it's phrased, you can't tell how the parts resolve. Does it do 250 damage to someone, and then, if they're alive, heal them/raise hp? EVEN IF SnB thought +max hp = heal, he has to ask whether he can accidentally kill someone before raising their hp. That's...crazy important. I can believe that he interpreted +max HP to be heal, but I can't believe he wouldn't ask whether both happen at once or whether he basically CPR docs someone if they're under 250 hp.


(2) The wording. Grey likes flavor. Grey likes...complex roles that punish gaming the setup (roleclaims, ability claims, whatever). But Grey doesn't create stupid roles.

The text of that ability just makes no sense, see (1). If it heals, it should just say "Raise targets max hp 300, heal them for 50." Ta da. It's simple. You can't misinterpret it. Your doc can't kill someone now. Gut feeling, I don't think Grey would create a role that mixed damage/possible heal for no good reason. It's much more likely that SnB has a similar ability, now has to try and find a logical fakeclaim, and so the wording comes out really garbled.



Out of his filter...I don't get too much. But he's only been vocal about a couple topics. His posts are generally pretty small, but perk up on three/four topics.

The party election D1
Hapahauli
(Maybe toad)
Phagga

There's one big toad post where he votes toad, although from the looks of it toad was caught by a check. So...scumSnB would have had to do that. But he perks up towards the end of the vote D1, and we know that at least one candidate, Sandroba, was scum. So on two of the topics he's been...more wordy about, scum has been involved.

I dunno about ALL of SnB's longer posts being about scum, but I could see Hapa or Phagga being scum just based on the way SnB has posted less when scum wasn't concerned. Maybe one a mislynch candidate, one a scumbuddy? I'll give them a look.


i already said that i clarified my ability with greymist, it raises someone's max health but does damage to their current health, and raising max health doesn't change current health.


(See nested quote above)

In addition, I'm seeing too many things that require scum to bus. Its possible he bussed hard and bussed often, but Z-Bo could just have a good gut instinct on SnB and Toad this game. The claimed actions seem reasonably verifiable so I'll look into that, but right now I'm not feeling good about lynching austin.
##Unvote(lynch): austinmcc
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18473 Posts
December 05 2012 18:09 GMT
#6496
On December 06 2012 03:07 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2012 03:03 Acrofales wrote:
On December 06 2012 03:00 Keirathi wrote:
What was your secondary wincon?

If I say that, it is ridiculously easy to guess my rolename.


Is that a bad thing? I mean if you're fearful of another player killing you, certainly you claiming third party and being so overt about it would have ended with you dead already.

Absolutely true. The fact that I took 0 damage for a few cycles despite claiming is making me less paranoid about there being someone wanting to kill me. However, if there are more SnB-like abilities out there, I prefer they hit other people than me. Call it a survivor mentality
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 05 2012 18:14 GMT
#6497
Can I get a refresher on the risk.nuke case? Is it primarily Acro's "meta" read into how he grows complacent/disinterested over time?
Hapahauli
Profile Joined May 2009
United States9305 Posts
December 05 2012 18:16 GMT
#6498
On December 06 2012 03:09 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2012 03:07 Hapahauli wrote:
On December 06 2012 03:03 Acrofales wrote:
On December 06 2012 03:00 Keirathi wrote:
What was your secondary wincon?

If I say that, it is ridiculously easy to guess my rolename.


Is that a bad thing? I mean if you're fearful of another player killing you, certainly you claiming third party and being so overt about it would have ended with you dead already.

Absolutely true. The fact that I took 0 damage for a few cycles despite claiming is making me less paranoid about there being someone wanting to kill me. However, if there are more SnB-like abilities out there, I prefer they hit other people than me. Call it a survivor mentality


Are you Ozzie?
a talking rock that sprouts among the waves woosh
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
December 05 2012 18:16 GMT
#6499
On December 06 2012 03:14 Hopeless1der wrote:
Can I get a refresher on the risk.nuke case? Is it primarily Acro's "meta" read into how he grows complacent/disinterested over time?


Since his cycle 2 rb has been claimed by kita, yes.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
December 05 2012 18:18 GMT
#6500
On December 06 2012 03:16 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2012 03:09 Acrofales wrote:
On December 06 2012 03:07 Hapahauli wrote:
On December 06 2012 03:03 Acrofales wrote:
On December 06 2012 03:00 Keirathi wrote:
What was your secondary wincon?

If I say that, it is ridiculously easy to guess my rolename.


Is that a bad thing? I mean if you're fearful of another player killing you, certainly you claiming third party and being so overt about it would have ended with you dead already.

Absolutely true. The fact that I took 0 damage for a few cycles despite claiming is making me less paranoid about there being someone wanting to kill me. However, if there are more SnB-like abilities out there, I prefer they hit other people than me. Call it a survivor mentality


Are you Ozzie?


Magnus makes way more sense. His secondary would be to be included in a party or to outlast frog. Both of those make sense lore wise and have been accomplished.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
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