the setup speculation is, and has always been, a shitty use of time not because it was without value but because it gives us no read on you. 100% setup speculation tells us nothing about the person who does it. When you wasted all your time with a mixture of setup speculation and tunnelling me, you caused everyone to get a scumread on you because you weren't scumhunting. That's why people are on you. the fact of the matter is your setup speculation was completely unnecessary because someone could have easily done it all after the debears flip in like a few minutes rather than talking about "all the possibilities" like you did so much before the debears flip, when it still wasn't clear what setup we're in.
Really, the setup speculation wouldn't even have been a problem if you like actually made reads and pushed cases. The point here isn't "oh setup speculation is bad" though that is true-- it's "oh, ONLY setup speculation is bad, drojef shoudl actually contribute and talk" and you're like "haha nop i'm just gonna tunnel and do setup speculation"
Like, remember yesterday when you were tunnelling me and everyone except SnB was like "dude we're not lynching BH" and you're like "lawl nope"
you have to realize that you need to actually scumhunt and analyze to play this game
On November 20 2012 03:33 Blazinghand wrote: I'm not 100% sure the last scum would have to be experienced to snipe debears really. I mean, yeah, it was a good snipe, but for all we know Hapa dropped some mad knowledge in the scum QT or the last scum just got lucky shooting into the town. The last scum certainly *could* be experienced and I don't think kickstart is scum, but I wouldn't use that as the reason to exonerate him.
In terms of "should DP be considered unlynchable" the answer is "absolutely not". Nobody is beyond suspicion or questioning. Thinking that way is dangerous and leads to us losing. I may not think kickstart is scum but that doesn't mean I'm gonna bank everything on that fact. Question everything.
@ BH
I disagree with that point. I think that debears could have been killed for 2 reasons
He was a great threat for the scum => I didn't feel like he was onto anyone special during N2 (being after S&B was not a unique case)
He has been snipped => Great move from a scum point of view, but you must have realized that a Cop was your greatest threat
Seriously, if the last scum had happily random shot debears, I don't see any reason why he would have done that over killing Hopeless or you. I personally thought that Hopeless would be the night kill.
I know who’s cop btw. So, mr. Cop, investigate Djodref. Nothing scum can do right now to stop a cop search. If roleblocker decides to find who is the cop and roleblock him, then BH the jailer will be able to confirm his role to someone else. Since that likely won’t happen, and BH will inevitably claim RB, then just go ahead Djo and we should be fine. Win-win, either Djo gets confirmed, or BH gets confirmed.
<snip>
because I think he might have given away the fact that we had a Cop here (and also because his read was wrong).
um dude it was obvious we had a cop. I've been talking about what the cop should do and how I'm trying not to RB the cop with my JK usage since N1. How on earth would Z-Bo "give away" the fact we have a cop? It's not like he had any more knowledge about it than we do.
And uh you really misunderstand my point. I'm saying that scum could be a shitty player, like yourself, and sniped debears not because he was good but because he was lucky. Yes, he was aiming for the cop, and he hit the cop, but it wasn't cause he was experienced-- there is luck in these things.
On November 20 2012 03:45 Blazinghand wrote: the setup speculation is, and has always been, a shitty use of time not because it was without value but because it gives us no read on you. 100% setup speculation tells us nothing about the person who does it. When you wasted all your time with a mixture of setup speculation and tunnelling me, you caused everyone to get a scumread on you because you weren't scumhunting. That's why people are on you. the fact of the matter is your setup speculation was completely unnecessary because someone could have easily done it all after the debears flip in like a few minutes rather than talking about "all the possibilities" like you did so much before the debears flip, when it still wasn't clear what setup we're in.
Really, the setup speculation wouldn't even have been a problem if you like actually made reads and pushed cases. The point here isn't "oh setup speculation is bad" though that is true-- it's "oh, ONLY setup speculation is bad, drojef shoudl actually contribute and talk" and you're like "haha nop i'm just gonna tunnel and do setup speculation"
Like, remember yesterday when you were tunnelling me and everyone except SnB was like "dude we're not lynching BH" and you're like "lawl nope"
you have to realize that you need to actually scumhunt and analyze to play this game
@ Blazinghand
Well, tunneling like a mad-man and using the setup against the mafia worked well for me last game to catch Clarity I've pushed him into fake claiming to get him lynched to get him counter claimed. I was planning to do the same kind of things against you. I was suffering of severe confirmation bias at this time, I admit it. What do you think of iamp and DP at the moment ?
On November 20 2012 03:53 Blazinghand wrote: EBWOP: sorry didn't mean to imply you are shitty player, that was a poorly worded sentence
lol, it really looked like you did it though I don't think I'm going to get mislynched before we find the last scum, even if you think I'm a shitty player ^^
Djodref I recommend you listen closely to what Sol Robeson has to say at the end of this scene:
Because it applies a lot to the way you play mafia. I don't know how you planned to push me into fake-claiming given that I'd already claimed JK and again I'll say that my critique of you isn't based on what you did, but what you didn't do. If you pressured me hard and setup speculated, but also scum-hunted and didn't opt out of the real discussion that took place D2, I wouldn't be having this conversation with you. Your tunneling (as opposed to just pushing a lynch-- tunnelling is about tunnel vision) and setup speculation, whether you meant it this way or not, let you opt out of giving reads and being accountable.
Currently I consider both of them to be on the townier ends of things, though i'll admit I haven't given their filters the determined analysis necessary to absolutely make that determination. I wouldn't be happy lynching iamp or DP given who else is alive right now.
On November 20 2012 03:51 Blazinghand wrote: um dude it was obvious we had a cop. I've been talking about what the cop should do and how I'm trying not to RB the cop with my JK usage since N1. How on earth would Z-Bo "give away" the fact we have a cop? It's not like he had any more knowledge about it than we do.
??? I don't understand you
I don't know what to say. I've realized that we may have a Cop when I read this post from Z-Bo. The way he said "I think I know who the Cop is" had really struck me at that time. I thought he was speaking of iamp and that was part of my motivation for the mass claim plan. But I was still not really sure if there was a Cop or not at that point. Also please remember that it was easier for you to trust your claim than for us
On a side note, I got what you said about getting lucky with the snipe.
From the way he's playing, though, I'm pretty sure this last scum player is a moron. Like, judging from his nks and choice of RBs, he lacks even a rudimentary understanding of the game and has made several mistakes. Honestly at this point he should just leave mafia and never come back. I guess his mother dropped him on his head a lot as a child, because she couldn't bear to look at his nasty-ass face.
On November 20 2012 04:09 Blazinghand wrote: From the way he's playing, though, I'm pretty sure this last scum player is a moron. Like, judging from his nks and choice of RBs, he lacks even a rudimentary understanding of the game and has made several mistakes. Honestly at this point he should just leave mafia and never come back. I guess his mother dropped him on his head a lot as a child, because she couldn't bear to look at his nasty-ass face.
On November 20 2012 04:09 Blazinghand wrote: From the way he's playing, though, I'm pretty sure this last scum player is a moron. Like, judging from his nks and choice of RBs, he lacks even a rudimentary understanding of the game and has made several mistakes. Honestly at this point he should just leave mafia and never come back. I guess his mother dropped him on his head a lot as a child, because she couldn't bear to look at his nasty-ass face.
I don't see how you can complain about his choice of RBs, maybe you shouldn't have claimed JK during D1 You sure enjoy your position of confirmed town... You should thank the players who have rightfully solved the setup for you.
EPT
