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On November 07 2012 07:15 Obzy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 07:03 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 07 2012 06:48 Obzy wrote:
Hmmm. I'm sort of glad you're posting this. How am I supposed to take this other than you're glad it was me who made a case on you, because right now I'm probably the least credible active player. Your whole "I feel defeated but I will not be defeated!" attitude makes no sense to me. I'm glad you are posting a case on me, specifically. Heh. Being called out in general gives a clear indication that my posting will be listened to when I respond, but getting called out by you makes my trust of Djo's JK claim increase, since he was been beating his head against you for hours this morning. You posting a case that I know is false makes me believe more in his case, which helps me trust his claim and innocence. A team composed of him and Sylver was only something I mused about if you were town. Maybe you're town and your case against me is just flat-out incorrect, you're just misguided. That's possible. But I think you think that too; you didn't vote. You clearly say "Obzy is Mafia" in fancy red highlighting and you do not vote. >_>
##Vote Obzy
There are still 27 hours until lynch, but fine, there you go.
If my case is incorrect, you should be able to point out why.
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On November 07 2012 07:14 Alsn wrote:
@Rad
What do you think about Clarity's case against Obzy? Specifically, what do you think about Clarity making that case on Obzy? Does it make him look more town? or less?
EBWOP: For the record, I think it makes him look less town, but I'd like to hear your answer before I say why.
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United States525 Posts
On November 07 2012 07:16 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 07:15 Obzy wrote:On November 07 2012 07:03 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 07 2012 06:48 Obzy wrote:
Hmmm. I'm sort of glad you're posting this. How am I supposed to take this other than you're glad it was me who made a case on you, because right now I'm probably the least credible active player. Your whole "I feel defeated but I will not be defeated!" attitude makes no sense to me. I'm glad you are posting a case on me, specifically. Heh. Being called out in general gives a clear indication that my posting will be listened to when I respond, but getting called out by you makes my trust of Djo's JK claim increase, since he was been beating his head against you for hours this morning. You posting a case that I know is false makes me believe more in his case, which helps me trust his claim and innocence. A team composed of him and Sylver was only something I mused about if you were town. Maybe you're town and your case against me is just flat-out incorrect, you're just misguided. That's possible. But I think you think that too; you didn't vote. You clearly say "Obzy is Mafia" in fancy red highlighting and you do not vote. >_> ##Vote ObzyThere are still 27 hours until lynch, but fine, there you go. If my case is incorrect, you should be able to point out why.
B. What Not to Post
Don’t argue with your target. They are never going to agree with you, so you are just taking up space. If it appears that your target is convincing the town not to vote for them, re-evaluate. If you are still confident in your analysis, focus on convincing the other townies. You want to intimidate your target and convince the town, not the other way around.
The quote doesn't _quite_ fit, it's more of advice to you rather than me stating my reasoning, but-
I have posted my response to your case. I don't need to convince you. I'm voting for you! I think you're scum! Why would you listen to me trying to refute your case again, with different words?
If other people have specific questions, they can ask me at any point, and I will answer to the best of my ability.
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Also, I'm interesting in hearing what Djod has in mind with regards to Clarity's PM. marv already confirmed that you're free to post whatever you like as long as you don't post his response. So I can't possibly see how it would hurt town if you tell us. Either you're scum and are lying about it, or you truly did ask and your story should check out.
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You're giving me advice after claiming newb 15+ times in the course of 3 filter pages? Suddenly so confident, as if your whole newb thing was just an act.
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@ Alsn
+ Show Spoiler +On November 06 2012 03:00 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 02:32 Djodref wrote:
@ Clarity
Could you at least tell me when you asked marv your question ?
I'm only asking for when right now ^^ Date: 11/5/12 2:48 Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 02:29 Obzy wrote:On November 06 2012 02:13 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ Obzy
The reason I asked marv before Cheese claiming was because I noticed what Cheese did. The OP Townie does not match with the PM townie. The PM townie flavor is in every PM. How do you conclude from this that I am blue or scum? Because whether or not the text matches in the OP compared to the PM doesn't matter. I'm certain that every single person noticed this, but nobody else (has mentioned) PM'd Marv specifically asking if the VT flavor text meant VT. It seemed fairly self-explanatory. And - I was under the impression that Cheese's claim was technically when he first put Regular Fapper at the end of his post; to him [as it turned out], that was a claim to all other VTs to take notice of that would not be recognized by blue or mafia. I don't agree that Cheese's actual claim was later- it was clear to him from the beginning. That's not what I asked. I asked if everyone was aware of the VT flavor. If I'm VT -> I want to make sure if I should claim (when the time comes) Townie or Regular Fapper, and I wonder if scum/blue knows flavour. If I'm Blue -> I want to know if scum knows VT flavor, and if VT knows the rest knows flavour. If I'm Scum -> I want to know if blues know flavor, and if VT know the rest knows flavour. Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 02:29 Obzy wrote:
Don't try to convince me that you aren't scum, convince me(and everybody else) who is. Easy for you to say, there are only so many hours in a day and I spent all of mine defending myself, and still am. I was hoping today would be calmer because it's the nightcycle, but it seems people would rather push and push and push rather than collect their thoughts. Show nested quote +On November 06 2012 02:43 Djodref wrote:On November 06 2012 02:01 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 06 2012 02:00 Djodref wrote:On November 06 2012 01:52 Clarity_nl wrote:No, I tried to stop him from saying that because if he did, as town, it would be moronic. And as you pointed out, I was starting to doubt my case on debears. Do you really not see a scum motive for Cheese pointing me out as "confirmed town" Again, you seem to think I had special information after marv posted that everyone knows VT flavor, but I didn't, you were just as informed as I was. We all voted for Cheese.Town Clarity has forgot Cheese for a while No, I was just kinda busy answering 1001 questions from you and debears. I was busy defending myself. @ ClarityAre you trying to deny your responsibility in the lynch ? Daoud did not vote for Cheese because he really believed that debears was scum... I have explained my reasons for lynching Cheese. I was being stupid but at least it makes some sense. I don't understand how you could not recognize that he was town and genuinely believing in the power of the VT flavor. How could you believe he was scum ? The only reason I see is that you were mafia and too happy to see a possibility to escape your lynch to think straight. I was already safe from lynching before I switched. @ ClarityOk, that's cool, if you were safe when you switched, it's sure that your vote did not mean anything. It does mean something, but what it meant (in my eyes) was: "I'm having doubts about debears being scum, especially with the way he's reacting to all of this" Cheese looked scummiest to me at that point, and YES, it made it so that I didn't get lynched. Surprise, a 100% wrong lynch looked worse to me than the person who looked scummiest to me. (See, I can do sarcasm as well)
My ambiguity is because the actual PM has quotes by marv, and will reveal my role.
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Obzy, could you outline why you think Clarity is scum? In your own words? Without referring to his case for why you are scum. I can see nothing inherently wrong about his case, so I'd like you to focus on why you think he's scum.
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United States525 Posts
Being a newb doesn't mean I can't copy paste from a guide.
Suddenly so confident, huh.
Well, I am confident that I'm town. That's not a controversial stance that I can be yelled at for being wrong on. Combined with the flips of CC and db, being town is the only fact I possess.
I feel quite enormously confident about that indeed.
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EBWOP: That last comment was in response to Clarity, by the way.
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On November 07 2012 07:14 Alsn wrote:
@Rad
What do you think about Clarity's case against Obzy? Specifically, what do you think about Clarity making that case on Obzy? Does it make him look more town? or less?
@Alsn
I don't think I agree with you on sylver's moves during the cheese situation seeming town-motivated, but I'll try to consider it some more so I don't just confirmation bias my way against him due to only my initial read at that time.
I think clarity's points about Obzy's apologies are interesting. It's true, he's been extremely apologetic which pushes me to feel bad for him. I don't know how to read that yet because I feel like I was pretty apologetic last game as well, and that was my first game, so i can sympathize. I don't particularly think his other points are great but they're not terrible either. All in all I think the apology thing is an important thing to think about because he really has overdone it.
I look forward to some sort of case from obzy on clarity, because if obzy's town, I think he seems like a smart guy who will make a smart case, so if there's a case to be had on clarity maybe he can make it.
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United States525 Posts
@Alsn - I'm at work right now, but I'll try to get it at you quickly, seeing as you're EU time[like 8+ hours or something]. If I don't get it to you before you go to bed, I apologize in advance; you'll see it by the time you wake up.
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@ Rad and Alsn
How do you feel about Obzy's comments specifically addressed to me so far.
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Rad
I already agree with the fact that Clarity's case against Obzy isn't necessarily wrong. But what I wanted to know was how you thought Clarity making a case on Obzy reflected on Clarity's likelihood of being town/scum.
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On November 07 2012 07:40 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ Rad and Alsn
How do you feel about Obzy's comments specifically addressed to me so far. Seeing as he has pretty much done exactly nothing but say "uh, yea, your arguments aren't wrong". I think I'd rather judge him on his case against you than how he responds to your case on him.
Basically, I don't see how he could ever refute your case. He has been apologetic, but just because it says so in a guide doesn't mean he must be scum because of it.
Either way, I don't necessarily think his response to you matters all that much. It doesn't make him look better, for sure, but until he explains why he wants you lynched, it's pretty much a null read to me.
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On November 07 2012 07:41 Alsn wrote:
Rad
I already agree with the fact that Clarity's case against Obzy isn't necessarily wrong. But what I wanted to know was how you thought Clarity making a case on Obzy reflected on Clarity's likelihood of being town/scum.
I can't think of any reason he would or wouldn't make the case on obzy that isn't based purely on WIFOM. Null tell. He made a case on obzy, great, I can see town or scum doing that, can't you? Coincidentally it will cause djo to go even crazier against us since I've only FoS'd 3 people since d2 started: obzy, djo, and sylver.
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On November 07 2012 07:46 Rad wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2012 07:41 Alsn wrote:
Rad
I already agree with the fact that Clarity's case against Obzy isn't necessarily wrong. But what I wanted to know was how you thought Clarity making a case on Obzy reflected on Clarity's likelihood of being town/scum. I can't think of any reason he would or wouldn't make the case on obzy that isn't based purely on WIFOM. Null tell. He made a case on obzy, great, I can see town or scum doing that, can't you? Coincidentally it will cause djo to go even crazier against us since I've only FoS'd 3 people since d2 started: obzy, djo, and sylver. Hm, I suppose it is WIFOM at that. I was referring to exactly that, him making a case against someone you FoSed earlier. Although at this point I suppose there aren't enough players that you can pick an original target anymore(other than da0ud, he seems to be the only one no one suspects).
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United States525 Posts
(I'm writing in notepad so I don't accidentally delete anything and can save it if I head home halfway through) -
Rad, do you legitimately think that Djo's claim is fake? Or are you saying that your two targets are Sylver and myself? (Which is fine, I'm writing my Clar case to help convince you otherwise.)
Because I see no reason to disbelieve Djo atm.
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On November 07 2012 07:40 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ Rad and Alsn
How do you feel about Obzy's comments specifically addressed to me so far.
Let me get back to you on that. I'm not ignoring your question, I just want to think it through. Just wanted to let you know since I'm here replying to other stuff before it.
On November 07 2012 07:55 Obzy wrote:
(I'm writing in notepad so I don't accidentally delete anything and can save it if I head home halfway through) -
Rad, do you legitimately think that Djo's claim is fake? Or are you saying that your two targets are Sylver and myself? (Which is fine, I'm writing my Clar case to help convince you otherwise.)
Because I see no reason to disbelieve Djo atm.
Obzy, when did I say his claim was fake? I said I was thinking he was cop and the claim surprised me. I've also said his claim is probably real unless someone counter claims.
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United States525 Posts
Oh, okay. I was looking at this line - "Coincidentally it will cause djo to go even crazier against us since I've only FoS'd 3 people since d2 started: obzy, djo, and sylver." I took that to mean that you were still suspicious of Djo, misinterpreted from merely saying "I originally was suspicious of Djo".
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EPT
