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On September 01 2012 09:24 BlackMamba24 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 09:17 Hapahauli wrote:On September 01 2012 09:16 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 01 2012 09:13 Hapahauli wrote:I'm going to keep my vote on Palmar for a bit. As it stands, there are a couple of people I want to hear more from before I decide what to do with my vote - namely those that haven't voted yet. I'll give em an hour. Relooking at some filters, I'm growing a bit wary of HiroPro, and his actions seem to follow a scum thought-process. - He enters the thread and builds a "case" on MMtoss. This "case" is a re-hash of most of what I pointed out earlier in the post.
- What seems scummy to me is how quickly he dropped his case. You'd think that a townie would have a bit more confirmation bias? But he drops it the second MMtoss posts his defense to HiroPro for his MrZentor/Hapa scumteam. That seems like a really weak reason to drop your main scumread.
- He spends the next few hours making one-liners and trying to contribute, when really not. Take a look at his filter.
Thoughts? That's a bit misleading. He was not convinced at all by MMtoss' first defense and only unvoted after MMtoss cleared it up further. If he was looking for a reason to drop his case, he would have done it sooner than that. MMtoss later addresses HiroPro's main suspicion and the answer satisfied him. That's the interesting part - he tunnels MMtoss until I explicitly point out his "first defense" (the longer post I take it?) to HiroPro. Then HiroPro posts that he's waiting for MMtoss to respond to him. Then he immediately drops his read after MMtoss responds. That's not suspicious. He was saying MMtoss' defense wasn't adequate because he didn't address the point. Then when MMtoss addressed the point, he was satisfied. What's scummy about that? We can't have another bandwagon switch right now, the vote is close and there's not a lot of time left in the day.
Because it was too easy. After tunneling MMtoss the entire game, HP was satisfied with just that post? Seriously? I call BS.
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On September 01 2012 09:17 Mementoss wrote:
Alright I gotta go for the night
##Unvote: ShadySands
##Vote: Palmar
I know I'm town, and me not dieing gives a hell of a lot better chances of actually killing scum, rather than killing someone actually generating discussion towards finding scum.
@hapa, Apparently Hiro usually posts one-liners all the time, but your first 2 bullets are good.
If I die, kill ghost or blackmamba.
MM Vote Hiro, let's this wagon going.
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ebwop let's get this wagon going.
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On September 01 2012 09:25 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 09:24 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 01 2012 09:17 Hapahauli wrote:On September 01 2012 09:16 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 01 2012 09:13 Hapahauli wrote:I'm going to keep my vote on Palmar for a bit. As it stands, there are a couple of people I want to hear more from before I decide what to do with my vote - namely those that haven't voted yet. I'll give em an hour. Relooking at some filters, I'm growing a bit wary of HiroPro, and his actions seem to follow a scum thought-process. - He enters the thread and builds a "case" on MMtoss. This "case" is a re-hash of most of what I pointed out earlier in the post.
- What seems scummy to me is how quickly he dropped his case. You'd think that a townie would have a bit more confirmation bias? But he drops it the second MMtoss posts his defense to HiroPro for his MrZentor/Hapa scumteam. That seems like a really weak reason to drop your main scumread.
- He spends the next few hours making one-liners and trying to contribute, when really not. Take a look at his filter.
Thoughts? That's a bit misleading. He was not convinced at all by MMtoss' first defense and only unvoted after MMtoss cleared it up further. If he was looking for a reason to drop his case, he would have done it sooner than that. MMtoss later addresses HiroPro's main suspicion and the answer satisfied him. That's the interesting part - he tunnels MMtoss until I explicitly point out his "first defense" (the longer post I take it?) to HiroPro. Then HiroPro posts that he's waiting for MMtoss to respond to him. Then he immediately drops his read after MMtoss responds. That's not suspicious. He was saying MMtoss' defense wasn't adequate because he didn't address the point. Then when MMtoss addressed the point, he was satisfied. What's scummy about that? We can't have another bandwagon switch right now, the vote is close and there's not a lot of time left in the day. Because it was too easy. After tunneling MMtoss the entire game, HP was satisfied with just that post? Seriously? I call BS.
Why not? tunneling the entire game was like all of a few hours and it seemed to satisfy you so why is it "too easy" when HiroPro likes his answer and not when you like his answer?
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Your whole "case" literally boils down to the fact that he changed his vote after the person he pressured defended himself, which is basically what you did, putting suspicion on MMToss then retracting it when he defended himself, except you were satisfied even quicker than he was so i really don't understand why people are changing votes at all
since when is it scummy anyway to change your mind
"too easy" is meaningless what does that even mean
it's not like MMtoss defense was so stellar he couldn't have continued pushing him if it was really his scum agenda
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On September 01 2012 09:26 BlackMamba24 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 09:25 Hapahauli wrote:On September 01 2012 09:24 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 01 2012 09:17 Hapahauli wrote:On September 01 2012 09:16 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 01 2012 09:13 Hapahauli wrote:I'm going to keep my vote on Palmar for a bit. As it stands, there are a couple of people I want to hear more from before I decide what to do with my vote - namely those that haven't voted yet. I'll give em an hour. Relooking at some filters, I'm growing a bit wary of HiroPro, and his actions seem to follow a scum thought-process. - He enters the thread and builds a "case" on MMtoss. This "case" is a re-hash of most of what I pointed out earlier in the post.
- What seems scummy to me is how quickly he dropped his case. You'd think that a townie would have a bit more confirmation bias? But he drops it the second MMtoss posts his defense to HiroPro for his MrZentor/Hapa scumteam. That seems like a really weak reason to drop your main scumread.
- He spends the next few hours making one-liners and trying to contribute, when really not. Take a look at his filter.
Thoughts? That's a bit misleading. He was not convinced at all by MMtoss' first defense and only unvoted after MMtoss cleared it up further. If he was looking for a reason to drop his case, he would have done it sooner than that. MMtoss later addresses HiroPro's main suspicion and the answer satisfied him. That's the interesting part - he tunnels MMtoss until I explicitly point out his "first defense" (the longer post I take it?) to HiroPro. Then HiroPro posts that he's waiting for MMtoss to respond to him. Then he immediately drops his read after MMtoss responds. That's not suspicious. He was saying MMtoss' defense wasn't adequate because he didn't address the point. Then when MMtoss addressed the point, he was satisfied. What's scummy about that? We can't have another bandwagon switch right now, the vote is close and there's not a lot of time left in the day. Because it was too easy. After tunneling MMtoss the entire game, HP was satisfied with just that post? Seriously? I call BS. Why not? tunneling the entire game was like all of a few hours and it seemed to satisfy you so why is it "too easy" when HiroPro likes his answer and not when you like his answer?
The thing is that it's a very unlikely "thought process" for a townie. Think about it. You make a major case against MMtoss, get 3 people to vote with you, mention nothing about it until someone calls you out for it, then all of a sudden, one magical answer solves all your suspicions? Keep in mind that HiroPro was convinced that MMtoss was scum:
Mementoss is attempting to seem useful when his posts actually say very little. His reaction to Hapahauli's questions are to throw doubt and accusations in a nonsensical manner. He's scum.
There's no way a townie would drop a read that quickly. Maybe a question or two, THEN dropping the read, but not right away.
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On September 01 2012 09:26 BlackMamba24 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 09:25 Hapahauli wrote:On September 01 2012 09:24 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 01 2012 09:17 Hapahauli wrote:On September 01 2012 09:16 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 01 2012 09:13 Hapahauli wrote:I'm going to keep my vote on Palmar for a bit. As it stands, there are a couple of people I want to hear more from before I decide what to do with my vote - namely those that haven't voted yet. I'll give em an hour. Relooking at some filters, I'm growing a bit wary of HiroPro, and his actions seem to follow a scum thought-process. - He enters the thread and builds a "case" on MMtoss. This "case" is a re-hash of most of what I pointed out earlier in the post.
- What seems scummy to me is how quickly he dropped his case. You'd think that a townie would have a bit more confirmation bias? But he drops it the second MMtoss posts his defense to HiroPro for his MrZentor/Hapa scumteam. That seems like a really weak reason to drop your main scumread.
- He spends the next few hours making one-liners and trying to contribute, when really not. Take a look at his filter.
Thoughts? That's a bit misleading. He was not convinced at all by MMtoss' first defense and only unvoted after MMtoss cleared it up further. If he was looking for a reason to drop his case, he would have done it sooner than that. MMtoss later addresses HiroPro's main suspicion and the answer satisfied him. That's the interesting part - he tunnels MMtoss until I explicitly point out his "first defense" (the longer post I take it?) to HiroPro. Then HiroPro posts that he's waiting for MMtoss to respond to him. Then he immediately drops his read after MMtoss responds. That's not suspicious. He was saying MMtoss' defense wasn't adequate because he didn't address the point. Then when MMtoss addressed the point, he was satisfied. What's scummy about that? We can't have another bandwagon switch right now, the vote is close and there's not a lot of time left in the day. Because it was too easy. After tunneling MMtoss the entire game, HP was satisfied with just that post? Seriously? I call BS. Why not? tunneling the entire game was like all of a few hours and it seemed to satisfy you so why is it "too easy" when HiroPro likes his answer and not when you like his answer?
What?
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On September 01 2012 09:29 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Your whole "case" literally boils down to the fact that he changed his vote after the person he pressured defended himself, which is basically what you did, putting suspicion on MMToss then retracting it when he defended himself, except you were satisfied even quicker than he was so i really don't understand why people are changing votes at all
since when is it scummy anyway to change your mind
"too easy" is meaningless what does that even mean
it's not like MMtoss defense was so stellar he couldn't have continued pushing him if it was really his scum agenda
Except Hapa never formalized his PoV on mementoss into a case or laid a vote on him. He just agreed with someone's read on Mementoss, and that's it. That's a heck of a lot weaker than making a 400 word post on him and voting.
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On September 01 2012 09:25 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 09:24 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 01 2012 09:17 Hapahauli wrote:On September 01 2012 09:16 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 01 2012 09:13 Hapahauli wrote:I'm going to keep my vote on Palmar for a bit. As it stands, there are a couple of people I want to hear more from before I decide what to do with my vote - namely those that haven't voted yet. I'll give em an hour. Relooking at some filters, I'm growing a bit wary of HiroPro, and his actions seem to follow a scum thought-process. - He enters the thread and builds a "case" on MMtoss. This "case" is a re-hash of most of what I pointed out earlier in the post.
- What seems scummy to me is how quickly he dropped his case. You'd think that a townie would have a bit more confirmation bias? But he drops it the second MMtoss posts his defense to HiroPro for his MrZentor/Hapa scumteam. That seems like a really weak reason to drop your main scumread.
- He spends the next few hours making one-liners and trying to contribute, when really not. Take a look at his filter.
Thoughts? That's a bit misleading. He was not convinced at all by MMtoss' first defense and only unvoted after MMtoss cleared it up further. If he was looking for a reason to drop his case, he would have done it sooner than that. MMtoss later addresses HiroPro's main suspicion and the answer satisfied him. That's the interesting part - he tunnels MMtoss until I explicitly point out his "first defense" (the longer post I take it?) to HiroPro. Then HiroPro posts that he's waiting for MMtoss to respond to him. Then he immediately drops his read after MMtoss responds. That's not suspicious. He was saying MMtoss' defense wasn't adequate because he didn't address the point. Then when MMtoss addressed the point, he was satisfied. What's scummy about that? We can't have another bandwagon switch right now, the vote is close and there's not a lot of time left in the day. Because it was too easy. After tunneling MMtoss the entire game, HP was satisfied with just that post? Seriously? I call BS.
Hi, I changed my mind. That doesn't make me scum. That just means I actually rethink my cases and consider what other people write when they make responses. Mementoss addressed my point because he provided a valid example of what he considered to be soft defenses (""Then... you vote Mr.Zentor for lurking? What? and "What does voting MrZentor even do, when you find other people suspicious?") and he provided a valid reasoning for why he would call Hapa+Zentor scumbuddies like that ("I occasionally say aggressive statements like this for people I'm null for to get some sort of reaction out of them and can make another opinion on them based on how they react.").
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I mean christ look at HiroPro's play up until now:
Before his "Case" against MMToss, he has 8 one-liner posts. He talks about abstaining voters, soft-defends me against SnB, and posts that Hopless1der is "nervous" without ever following up on it.
He then posts his "Case", and sounds confident in his read. He only has two posts before I confront him about his read: a soft defense of SnB and a little poke on MMToss, mentioning that he'll take a look at Shady's filter.
I confront him about his case and MMToss's post.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=15#291
Read from this point on. Look how quickly he gives up his read.
He then posts a bunch of one-liners without making reads
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Keep in mind that HiroPro has not made a read or even casted a suspicion since his case against MMToss.
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@BM24 - still disagree? I mean think about it, a bunch of people still think MMToss is scummy despite his other posts... and HiroPro changed his mind so easily? Really?
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Sorry I'm a little late here. I think mementoss is town based on his responses to the case against him. I'm null on Palmar overall, and he's next likeliest to be lynched, so I'll lynch him over MMtoss.
##Vote: Palmar
I don't buy into what Hapa is selling right now. Hapa tried to sway Hiro AWAY from his read on MMtoss:
On September 01 2012 07:04 HiroPro wrote:It's ok. The problem I have is that he ignored the brunt of the case (which is how he says he's unclear about Zentor but then later in the same post says that Hapa is soft-defending Zentor and they're scum buddies together) and focused on small things to reply to instead.
Hapa is really off the wall today. Can't or won't sit still and he seems to see scum at every other post. I can't take him very seriously right now, but I think he's town.
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On September 01 2012 09:46 Hapahauli wrote:
@BM24 - still disagree? I mean think about it, a bunch of people still think MMToss is scummy despite his other posts... and HiroPro changed his mind so easily? Really?
Because they thought Mementoss was scum for reasons other than mine... Mementoss addressed my major concern with his play fine.
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I think it's incredibly silly to say that nobody will vote for BM24 when 5 or so people have already swung on to Hiro very suddenly (and with reasoning as minimal as "yeah, sure, why not?"). But as for your case:
I don't think Hiro's done anything explicitly scummy. Yeah, he dropped the case against MM, but seeing as the prevailing opinion now is that MM is safe (otherwise there would be more votes on him), there's nothing wrong with that. His contributions hve been less since then, but I haven't seen anything outright anti-town in his filter (contrast with BM). I've got much stronger scum reads. I'll leave my vote where it is for now.
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On September 01 2012 09:35 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 09:29 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Your whole "case" literally boils down to the fact that he changed his vote after the person he pressured defended himself, which is basically what you did, putting suspicion on MMToss then retracting it when he defended himself, except you were satisfied even quicker than he was so i really don't understand why people are changing votes at all
since when is it scummy anyway to change your mind
"too easy" is meaningless what does that even mean
it's not like MMtoss defense was so stellar he couldn't have continued pushing him if it was really his scum agenda Except Hapa never formalized his PoV on mementoss into a case or laid a vote on him. He just agreed with someone's read on Mementoss, and that's it. That's a heck of a lot weaker than making a 400 word post on him and voting.
BUt I thought the main criticism of HiroPro other than that was that his case was a summation of Hapahauli's suspicions of mementoss? Hapahauli told me himself that after reading his defense he thought MMtoss was town for that. But if HiroPro comes to the same conclusion that makes him scum? don't be stupid.
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On September 01 2012 09:49 Node wrote:I think it's incredibly silly to say that nobody will vote for BM24 when 5 or so people have already swung on to Hiro very suddenly (and with reasoning as minimal as "yeah, sure, why not?"). But as for your case: I don't think Hiro's done anything explicitly scummy. Yeah, he dropped the case against MM, but seeing as the prevailing opinion now is that MM is safe (otherwise there would be more votes on him), there's nothing wrong with that. His contributions hve been less since then, but I haven't seen anything outright anti-town in his filter (contrast with BM). I've got much stronger scum reads. I'll leave my vote where it is for now.
There are 2 votes on HiroPro. Don't pull this shit about "5 person voteswing" or whatever - you're being misleading.
And MM is not safe. He has 3 votes on him. Are you even reading the thread?
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On September 01 2012 09:32 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 09:26 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 01 2012 09:25 Hapahauli wrote:On September 01 2012 09:24 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 01 2012 09:17 Hapahauli wrote:On September 01 2012 09:16 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 01 2012 09:13 Hapahauli wrote:I'm going to keep my vote on Palmar for a bit. As it stands, there are a couple of people I want to hear more from before I decide what to do with my vote - namely those that haven't voted yet. I'll give em an hour. Relooking at some filters, I'm growing a bit wary of HiroPro, and his actions seem to follow a scum thought-process. - He enters the thread and builds a "case" on MMtoss. This "case" is a re-hash of most of what I pointed out earlier in the post.
- What seems scummy to me is how quickly he dropped his case. You'd think that a townie would have a bit more confirmation bias? But he drops it the second MMtoss posts his defense to HiroPro for his MrZentor/Hapa scumteam. That seems like a really weak reason to drop your main scumread.
- He spends the next few hours making one-liners and trying to contribute, when really not. Take a look at his filter.
Thoughts? That's a bit misleading. He was not convinced at all by MMtoss' first defense and only unvoted after MMtoss cleared it up further. If he was looking for a reason to drop his case, he would have done it sooner than that. MMtoss later addresses HiroPro's main suspicion and the answer satisfied him. That's the interesting part - he tunnels MMtoss until I explicitly point out his "first defense" (the longer post I take it?) to HiroPro. Then HiroPro posts that he's waiting for MMtoss to respond to him. Then he immediately drops his read after MMtoss responds. That's not suspicious. He was saying MMtoss' defense wasn't adequate because he didn't address the point. Then when MMtoss addressed the point, he was satisfied. What's scummy about that? We can't have another bandwagon switch right now, the vote is close and there's not a lot of time left in the day. Because it was too easy. After tunneling MMtoss the entire game, HP was satisfied with just that post? Seriously? I call BS. Why not? tunneling the entire game was like all of a few hours and it seemed to satisfy you so why is it "too easy" when HiroPro likes his answer and not when you like his answer? What?
It's misleading to say he tunneled anyone the entire game because he made his case, asked for a proper response, got it soon after. You can't say he changed his mind instantly AND tunneled this person all game. Those two statements contradict each other in principle. What you should be saying is the case he made on Mementoss was too strong to be dropped so easily, but then that's also admitting that it was a valid case in the first place.
It's weird to be the basis of someones case against someone which more or less puts you on their side and then accuse them of being scum for coming to the same conclusion as you and in fact HiroPro came to that conclusion LATER than Haupa did. Haupa pointed out his first defense to me as the thing that made him think MMtoss was town (which seems to be a change of heart from the beginning of the game) whereas HiroPro rejected that and waited for a more direct response. That's what real pressure is. This is ridiculous.
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EPT
