|
On September 01 2012 09:49 BlackMamba24 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 09:35 Shady Sands wrote:On September 01 2012 09:29 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Your whole "case" literally boils down to the fact that he changed his vote after the person he pressured defended himself, which is basically what you did, putting suspicion on MMToss then retracting it when he defended himself, except you were satisfied even quicker than he was so i really don't understand why people are changing votes at all
since when is it scummy anyway to change your mind
"too easy" is meaningless what does that even mean
it's not like MMtoss defense was so stellar he couldn't have continued pushing him if it was really his scum agenda Except Hapa never formalized his PoV on mementoss into a case or laid a vote on him. He just agreed with someone's read on Mementoss, and that's it. That's a heck of a lot weaker than making a 400 word post on him and voting. BUt I thought the main criticism of HiroPro other than that was that his case was a summation of Hapahauli's suspicions of mementoss? Hapahauli told me himself that after reading his defense he thought MMtoss was town for that. But if HiroPro comes to the same conclusion that makes him scum? don't be stupid.
Grawww you're not reading again!!!! I thought MMtoss was town for this post:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=13#258
HiroPro still thought MMtoss was scummy after that post. He magically dropped his read after this post:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=15#293
|
Are you willfully not reading what I post?
|
He showed NO intention of dropping his read against MMToss until I confronted him about it, then insta-dropped his read!
|
But if that's not going to convince you BM24, what about the other stuff? The one liners, the soft defenses, the soft-pressure against Hopeless w/out ever following it up, the lack of content, and the lack of an active scumread at this stage in the day!
|
On September 01 2012 09:55 Hapahauli wrote:
He showed NO intention of dropping his read against MMToss until I confronted him about it, then insta-dropped his read!
That was the post I was referring to. It didn't satisfy HiroPro but it satisfied you so how can you say he dropped his suspicions too quick when you dropped them even quicker?
He didn't drop it because you pressured it, he didn't drop it until MMtoss directly answered his question and main point of his case. I don't see what is so hard to understand about that...
|
none of that other stuff you said is scummy
|
Okay well BMB has already gone through why Hapa's case doesn't demonstrate Hiro to be scummy.
Hapa still has a point regarding who does Hiro think is scum.
Hiro? If your around, we'd be much obliged.
|
On September 01 2012 09:59 BlackMamba24 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 09:55 Hapahauli wrote:
He showed NO intention of dropping his read against MMToss until I confronted him about it, then insta-dropped his read! That was the post I was referring to. It didn't satisfy HiroPro but it satisfied you so how can you say he dropped his suspicions too quick when you dropped them even quicker? He didn't drop it because you pressured it, he didn't drop it until MMtoss directly answered his question and main point of his case. I don't see what is so hard to understand about that...
You actually buy that?
Do you think like that as a townie? Clearly not, or you would've accepted the first defense that SnB posted against you insteantly. You don't see it as strange that Hiro doesn't pressure him any more than that after posting his case? Like he insta-dropped his suspicions man.
|
On September 01 2012 10:02 Hopeless1der wrote:
Okay well BMB has already gone through why Hapa's case doesn't demonstrate Hiro to be scummy.
Hapa still has a point regarding who does Hiro think is scum.
Hiro? If your around, we'd be much obliged.
Goddamnit townies don't think like that! Townies don't insta-drop cases like that!
|
On September 01 2012 10:04 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 09:59 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 01 2012 09:55 Hapahauli wrote:
He showed NO intention of dropping his read against MMToss until I confronted him about it, then insta-dropped his read! That was the post I was referring to. It didn't satisfy HiroPro but it satisfied you so how can you say he dropped his suspicions too quick when you dropped them even quicker? He didn't drop it because you pressured it, he didn't drop it until MMtoss directly answered his question and main point of his case. I don't see what is so hard to understand about that... You actually buy that? Do you think like that as a townie? Clearly not, or you would've accepted the first defense that SnB posted against you insteantly. You don't see it as strange that Hiro doesn't pressure him any more than that after posting his case? Like he insta-dropped his suspicions man.
No he wouldn't. Or rather, I wouldn't. Read the argument presented and THEN make a decision. Your reasoning here is terrible and its things like that that make me want to ignore your cases in general.
|
The argument presented was that HiroPro accepted MMToss's "defense" to his case (defense posted below).
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=15#293
As far as I know, that's it. HiroPro accepted it, and for some reason, you and BM24 accept it at face value. However, let me tell you why this is very unlikely:
1) HiroPro went from extreme suspicion (note the wording, "MMtoss is scum"), to a dropped suspicion in one post.
2) HiroPro still should have reason to suspect MMtoss, even after MMtoss defends himself. People still fnd MMtoss suspicious, yet for some reason, HiroPro accepted the magical answer?
3) HiroPro is happy to poke and prod random townies, but barely makes an attempt to question MMtoss, who is Hiro's main scumread.
I could go on, but what more do you need here? I hope you don't actually buy Hiro's excuse.
|
ARE YOU FUCKING READING ANYTHING I POST
On September 01 2012 09:37 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 09:25 Hapahauli wrote:On September 01 2012 09:24 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 01 2012 09:17 Hapahauli wrote:On September 01 2012 09:16 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 01 2012 09:13 Hapahauli wrote:I'm going to keep my vote on Palmar for a bit. As it stands, there are a couple of people I want to hear more from before I decide what to do with my vote - namely those that haven't voted yet. I'll give em an hour. Relooking at some filters, I'm growing a bit wary of HiroPro, and his actions seem to follow a scum thought-process. - He enters the thread and builds a "case" on MMtoss. This "case" is a re-hash of most of what I pointed out earlier in the post.
- What seems scummy to me is how quickly he dropped his case. You'd think that a townie would have a bit more confirmation bias? But he drops it the second MMtoss posts his defense to HiroPro for his MrZentor/Hapa scumteam. That seems like a really weak reason to drop your main scumread.
- He spends the next few hours making one-liners and trying to contribute, when really not. Take a look at his filter.
Thoughts? That's a bit misleading. He was not convinced at all by MMtoss' first defense and only unvoted after MMtoss cleared it up further. If he was looking for a reason to drop his case, he would have done it sooner than that. MMtoss later addresses HiroPro's main suspicion and the answer satisfied him. That's the interesting part - he tunnels MMtoss until I explicitly point out his "first defense" (the longer post I take it?) to HiroPro. Then HiroPro posts that he's waiting for MMtoss to respond to him. Then he immediately drops his read after MMtoss responds. That's not suspicious. He was saying MMtoss' defense wasn't adequate because he didn't address the point. Then when MMtoss addressed the point, he was satisfied. What's scummy about that? We can't have another bandwagon switch right now, the vote is close and there's not a lot of time left in the day. Because it was too easy. After tunneling MMtoss the entire game, HP was satisfied with just that post? Seriously? I call BS. Hi, I changed my mind. That doesn't make me scum. That just means I actually rethink my cases and consider what other people write when they make responses. Mementoss addressed my point because he provided a valid example of what he considered to be soft defenses (""Then... you vote Mr.Zentor for lurking? What? and "What does voting MrZentor even do, when you find other people suspicious?") and he provided a valid reasoning for why he would call Hapa+Zentor scumbuddies like that ("I occasionally say aggressive statements like this for people I'm null for to get some sort of reaction out of them and can make another opinion on them based on how they react.").
On September 01 2012 09:47 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 09:46 Hapahauli wrote:
@BM24 - still disagree? I mean think about it, a bunch of people still think MMToss is scummy despite his other posts... and HiroPro changed his mind so easily? Really? Because they thought Mementoss was scum for reasons other than mine... Mementoss addressed my major concern with his play fine.
|
Like shit, Hiro STILL isn't making an effort to scumhunt with 1 hour to the deadline. You could lynch him JUST on that!
|
On September 01 2012 10:15 HiroPro wrote:ARE YOU FUCKING READING ANYTHING I POST Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 09:37 HiroPro wrote:On September 01 2012 09:25 Hapahauli wrote:On September 01 2012 09:24 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 01 2012 09:17 Hapahauli wrote:On September 01 2012 09:16 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 01 2012 09:13 Hapahauli wrote:I'm going to keep my vote on Palmar for a bit. As it stands, there are a couple of people I want to hear more from before I decide what to do with my vote - namely those that haven't voted yet. I'll give em an hour. Relooking at some filters, I'm growing a bit wary of HiroPro, and his actions seem to follow a scum thought-process. - He enters the thread and builds a "case" on MMtoss. This "case" is a re-hash of most of what I pointed out earlier in the post.
- What seems scummy to me is how quickly he dropped his case. You'd think that a townie would have a bit more confirmation bias? But he drops it the second MMtoss posts his defense to HiroPro for his MrZentor/Hapa scumteam. That seems like a really weak reason to drop your main scumread.
- He spends the next few hours making one-liners and trying to contribute, when really not. Take a look at his filter.
Thoughts? That's a bit misleading. He was not convinced at all by MMtoss' first defense and only unvoted after MMtoss cleared it up further. If he was looking for a reason to drop his case, he would have done it sooner than that. MMtoss later addresses HiroPro's main suspicion and the answer satisfied him. That's the interesting part - he tunnels MMtoss until I explicitly point out his "first defense" (the longer post I take it?) to HiroPro. Then HiroPro posts that he's waiting for MMtoss to respond to him. Then he immediately drops his read after MMtoss responds. That's not suspicious. He was saying MMtoss' defense wasn't adequate because he didn't address the point. Then when MMtoss addressed the point, he was satisfied. What's scummy about that? We can't have another bandwagon switch right now, the vote is close and there's not a lot of time left in the day. Because it was too easy. After tunneling MMtoss the entire game, HP was satisfied with just that post? Seriously? I call BS. Hi, I changed my mind. That doesn't make me scum. That just means I actually rethink my cases and consider what other people write when they make responses. Mementoss addressed my point because he provided a valid example of what he considered to be soft defenses (""Then... you vote Mr.Zentor for lurking? What? and "What does voting MrZentor even do, when you find other people suspicious?") and he provided a valid reasoning for why he would call Hapa+Zentor scumbuddies like that ("I occasionally say aggressive statements like this for people I'm null for to get some sort of reaction out of them and can make another opinion on them based on how they react."). Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 09:47 HiroPro wrote:On September 01 2012 09:46 Hapahauli wrote:
@BM24 - still disagree? I mean think about it, a bunch of people still think MMToss is scummy despite his other posts... and HiroPro changed his mind so easily? Really? Because they thought Mementoss was scum for reasons other than mine... Mementoss addressed my major concern with his play fine.
I am, and I'm posting why I think you're full of shit.
|
On September 01 2012 10:02 Hopeless1der wrote:
Okay well BMB has already gone through why Hapa's case doesn't demonstrate Hiro to be scummy.
Hapa still has a point regarding who does Hiro think is scum.
Hiro? If your around, we'd be much obliged.
No, I don't have any strong scum reads at this point. Risen looks weird to me because he made a case on Shady and then proceeded to go lynch Palmar because he's a troll. But it's not something I'd vote him for.
|
On September 01 2012 10:16 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 10:02 Hopeless1der wrote:
Okay well BMB has already gone through why Hapa's case doesn't demonstrate Hiro to be scummy.
Hapa still has a point regarding who does Hiro think is scum.
Hiro? If your around, we'd be much obliged. No, I don't have any strong scum reads at this point. Risen looks weird to me because he made a case on Shady and then proceeded to go lynch Palmar because he's a troll. But it's not something I'd vote him for.
LOOK AT THIS!!
He's not scumhunting! *********************************
|
To be honest, I don't think you are either.
|
I could not lay it out for you any clearer.
Here's a guy who has no active scumreads... hey remember who also had no active scumreads as mafia @ lynch deadline? That's right, you did in Newbie XX.
|
The vote spread is identical to NMM XXIV, where the top two votes were both townies. After that game it was pointed out that if one of the top votes had been scum, it's likely that there would have been a stronger defense of that candidate. The difference between the two games is that in this case, there was a stronger defense of one candidate. I think that there may have been scum support behind the switch off of Mementoss. The entire situation just feels... wrong to me. I feel manipulated and that always makes me suspicious. I said that he had convinced me of his innocence, but he still sticks out as my top scumread (Yes, I've been caught in a "lie"). I know what effects this can have on my already crappy reputation in this game, but I'm going to...
##Vote Mementoss
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
