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On September 01 2012 07:26 BlackMamba24 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 07:24 strongandbig wrote:On September 01 2012 07:17 BlackMamba24 wrote:Hapahauli actually found a huge contradiction on page 12 and it seems off to me too. If he really thinks policy lynches are that dumb (Like I do) why would he make suggestions or explanations in support of it? "If people are proposing a lurker lynch, I think we should come up with a list that a majority of us can agree on and then RNG it using some method." The whole tone of that sentence seems completely off to me for someone who doesn't like policy lynches in the first place. Also, the miller claim. It basically protects scum from the DT. If you get DT checked you'd return scum in stead of self-aware miller so nobody can confirm it until you're dead and it gives you a point of argument if you do get DT checked. I need to go over his first post a bit closer but By the way can we please not lynch or FoS people for being absent from the thread until certain times? I normally wake up between 2-4 PM PST and am quite busy most of the day so keep that in mind. On September 01 2012 04:59 marvellosity wrote:On September 01 2012 04:47 strongandbig wrote:On September 01 2012 04:25 marvellosity wrote:
ok it's not been discussed at all, but it keeps being pushed.
s&b seems to think that Mamba's case which is full of crap is less scummy than Hapa's pressure vote on Hopeless1der, and it makes no sense to me at all. He says he's not happy to vote someone based on one bad case, but is extremely happy to be suspicious of Hapa pressuring Hopeless.
Why this disparity? Marv you were obsing ptp. VE and wiggles both made cases that were just as crappy as this one, I called them both scum, and they both flipped town. I just am not convinced that making bad cases is a good scum tell anymore. Like, does his case push a scum agenda or sew confusion? No, to me it just looks bad. It is weird that blackmamba just disappeared. If he leaves his vote on hapahauli without making a new case then he'll jump to the top of my scum list. And one other thing - I had been looking at hapa's vote on hopeless as "I think you are scum and want to kill you." That's how I vote - if I vote early in the day like that, I expect everyone to understand from that "I really mean what I'm saying right now, I'm serious about it." Like I said last time, it makes no sense when you think of it as meaning that, but when you change how you're thinking of it to a "pressure vote" it sounds better. Alright. You and ghost were both doing the same thing effectively so the explanation is reasonable. I don't wanna lynch Mementoss. He's cute. The thing with Blackmamba - the case was bad, ok. But if it was to cause discussion, then fine. Except he hasn't been around to actually deal with the discussion, and I find that scummy. I'd fucking love to policy lynch Zentor but annoyingly I can't quite bring myself to  ##Vote: Blackmamba24 Because only scum sleep in late or get sinus infections. I don't think there is a clear disconnect in the way Marvellosity sees MrZentor. If, in his mind, he thinks lynching Zentor is a good idea he's going to be biased and find and see things that support that preconceived notion. I'm guilty of building connections based on bad cases or even people I wasn't really that suspicious of because I want to be right. It's something that happens. I think SNB's strange disconnect is a lot more suspicious. I need to carefully read his first post some more because his claim did throw me off which is why if he is indeed scum I congratulate him for doing a move like that. At the time when I brought up rng'ing the lurker lynch, the only cases we had in the thread were on you and on hapa. Do you disagree that if there are no reasonable cases, a policy or lurker lynch makes sense? I really don't see this "contradiction". Even if something is a bad choice, sometimes there are no better choices, and at that point in the day it looked like this lynch might be one of those times. There's always a case. There's always a weird feeling about something someone said that seemed "off" or even a connection between two players. It's just weird that you didn't qualify that statement or mention your distaste for policy lynches until later, it makes it seem to me, like you're trying to appear as "with the town" as you can.
I guess I must just not dislike policy lynches quite as much as you do. There were a couple of people who did seem suspicious. Hapa felt suspicious to me. However, at a certain point you have to ask what amount of suspicion it takes to be worth lynching on.
Anyway, I see that you and mementoss are discussing my meta. Not much that I can say about that, you'll just have to read a few of my games and draw your own conclusions if you want to really get into it. I just came off a pretty good town day 1 in pokemafia, where I died N1. I'd like to discuss my play in that game some more, but it's still ongoing so I can't really. The two games I played before that were mad men mafia and WBG's not themed mafia.
Now, it's 12:45 my time and I need to go to sleep. So, I'm forced to figure out who I want to vote for.
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On September 01 2012 07:38 BlackMamba24 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 07:37 Mementoss wrote:Only thing I noticed is in pokemafia he seemed to try and be a town leader, and lead cases. In this game he seems to be more going with the flow. imo In this game he got to the point and didn't write 10000 word posts about nothing except how town he is because town has no reason to do that. the only reason I'm not voting SNB right now is because fakeclaims always throw me for a loop and I could second-guess myself for a very long time. I'll probably make up my mind within the next few hours, I need to meditate or at least have some breakfast.
Wait you're trying to make a meta read on my miller claim and compare it to a game where I didn't have to put myself under special scrutiny, on account of how I wasn't a miller? I really don't think that's a valid comparison.
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On September 01 2012 07:58 BlackMamba24 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 07:51 Hapahauli wrote:On September 01 2012 07:25 BlackMamba24 wrote:
...
Anyway can anyone familiar with strongandbigs meta tell me if it is normal for him, as town, to make huge fucking posts immediately and add a ton of bravado like that into anything he says cause if not I'm saying we should lynch him. Pardon my skepticism, but is this really a scumtell? Even if he historically makes smaller posts as town, I can't imagine why making larger posts would make him mafia, even on a meta-basis. One scum almost always takes it upon themselves to make large posts early on and establish themselves as very very "pro-town". They love buzzwords like "anti-town" and other stupid things like that. I just can't see any reason for a townie to spend that much time, early in the game, establishing their townieness unless there is a mayoral election or something like that. The fakeclaim is throwing me off. There's also that contradiction that you yourself pointed out. I can understand why a scum player would defend me as well, they might be thinking there's no reason to go after me early on and get OMGUS'd or get my attention when they can kill me at night but I'm not really that good. My town meta is to pin the entire mafia team Day 2 and then vote for everyone else instead.
Or maybe it's not a fake claim and I'm actually a miller? And I want to deal with that and get it out of the way in a game full of detectives? Occam's razor, man.
One terrible case is excusable, but two is too much to be a coincidence. I mean seriously, what you're saying is that I tried too hard to help town out when I told everyone that I'm a miller, and therefore I must be scum? In what world does that make sense?
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I know - I addressed that in my first post. VT's don't have checks, but I guessed that there is a larger-than-normal number of DT power roles.
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On September 01 2012 08:03 Palmar wrote:
##vote mementoss
##vote palmar
Like, the number of times people have told me that "being lazy" is palmar's scum meta...
I can't really accept missing the whole first day and then jumping back in with the most random freaking unreasoned explicit sheep vote I've ever seen.
I'm not really concerned at the moment with "viable candidates". I don't think any of the main cases are stronger than my gut reaction to what palmar just did.
If this is "a trap" palmar, then consider yourself successful, you caught me. By playing as scummy as possible, you trapped me and convinced me that you are scum. Huzzah.
Now, I'm going to bed. See you guys tomorrow if I live.
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Hiro, you're lying. I'm still at work but I'll be leaving soon and I'll explain as soon as I get back home.
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Actually I can give a little bit more now.
my role PM says that rolechecks on me before half the players in the game are dead will return detective and after that point they will return suspicious detective.
This means that 'suspicious detective' isn't just a name for a "miller" role. It's a result of checks people can get. If all suspicious detectives were millers then that wouldn't make any sense - the whole point of millers is that they check the same as scum.
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So why can't there be both self-aware and non-self-aware millers? In a detective-based setup I don't think it's that unlikely.
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On September 02 2012 00:18 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 00:14 Mementoss wrote:On September 02 2012 00:01 HiroPro wrote:PRE-EDIT: I should be a little bit more specific. I don't know whether checks on me will return scum or town - all I'm told is that some checks on me will return scum instead of town. I speculate that there are different types of DT check in this game and I am only a miller to some of them - maybe L has special DT powers, and one of their advantages is that they are immune to some or all millers? I also don't know whether it's likely to have more than one or two millers in such a small setup, but having a lot of DT power roles could mean we have more millers than normal. If there are other self-aware millers, they should claim asap as well, or else never claim at all. Yea I don't believe you. Im a bit lost, about this suspicious detective thing. Why don't you believe him can you give some clarification? Second, look at what s&b wrote. When he first claimed self-aware miller, he said that he didn't know what circumstances would cause him to return as suspicious or normal (he talked about how certain people's checks may be reliable, certain may not). However, now he's claiming that his role PM told him that he'll return suspicious when there are less than half the players remaining in this game.
Yeah, I didn't explain that in my miller claim post. I was kind of confused about it myself, and I wanted to make the situation clearer; I also didn't think it was important, since for it to matter detectives would have to check me, and the whole point of telling everyone you're a miller is already putting yourself under the suspicion as if you had a detective check on you. I actually was going to just simplify it even more and tell everyone that I would always check as scum, but I ended up doing a ps at the end; I thought I should mention that I would sometimes check town because otherwise if a detective checked me too soon it could get very confusing (mixed-up sanities, assuming there are framers, etcetera).
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How about this - we kill ghost today because he's scum. Hiro or some other DT checks me tonight. I come back town and we realize I'm telling the truth?
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nah man
if i was scum i would have had someone proofread that giant claim post and they would've been "what's with this part that's stupid, either say the whole thing or just say you always turn up scum"
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also if i was scum i would know who the scum are
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On September 02 2012 05:40 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 05:19 strongandbig wrote:
nah man
if i was scum i would have had someone proofread that giant claim post and they would've been "what's with this part that's stupid, either say the whole thing or just say you always turn up scum" can you actually address the multiple inconsistencies pointed out especially by hiro??
I mean, I did lie in that first post. Alls I can say is what I already said.
On September 02 2012 00:34 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 00:18 HiroPro wrote:On September 02 2012 00:14 Mementoss wrote:On September 02 2012 00:01 HiroPro wrote:PRE-EDIT: I should be a little bit more specific. I don't know whether checks on me will return scum or town - all I'm told is that some checks on me will return scum instead of town. I speculate that there are different types of DT check in this game and I am only a miller to some of them - maybe L has special DT powers, and one of their advantages is that they are immune to some or all millers? I also don't know whether it's likely to have more than one or two millers in such a small setup, but having a lot of DT power roles could mean we have more millers than normal. If there are other self-aware millers, they should claim asap as well, or else never claim at all. Yea I don't believe you. Im a bit lost, about this suspicious detective thing. Why don't you believe him can you give some clarification? Second, look at what s&b wrote. When he first claimed self-aware miller, he said that he didn't know what circumstances would cause him to return as suspicious or normal (he talked about how certain people's checks may be reliable, certain may not). However, now he's claiming that his role PM told him that he'll return suspicious when there are less than half the players remaining in this game. Yeah, I didn't explain that in my miller claim post. I was kind of confused about it myself, and I wanted to make the situation clearer; I also didn't think it was important, since for it to matter detectives would have to check me, and the whole point of telling everyone you're a miller is already putting yourself under the suspicion as if you had a detective check on you. I actually was going to just simplify it even more and tell everyone that I would always check as scum, but I ended up doing a ps at the end; I thought I should mention that I would sometimes check town because otherwise if a detective checked me too soon it could get very confusing (mixed-up sanities, assuming there are framers, etcetera).
I think that's the only actual inconsistency. It was a bad choice of me to post that in my first post. I wanted to make it clear that not all checks on me would return the same thing, and "L maybe has better DT powers than other DTs" seemed like the easiest way to say that.
I mean, what's the scum motivation for saying that? Wouldn't it be much easier as scum just to say "I always return scum to checks" because if I was scum, I would always return scum to checks? The only possible motivation for me to say that was exactly what my motivation was, to save town from wifoming itself if people actually did check me.
Other than that one point, as far as I can tell the whole case on me consists of "wtf there can't be different kinds of millers in the same game." Not much I can say about that, other than "well, there are, so deal with it."
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also mementoss's case on ghost looks like the most decent case other than "there can't be more than one kind of miller" so
##vote: ghost_420
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GG 
gogo Kira
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( •_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
⌐(■_■) Holy shit.
YEAAAAAAHHHHHH
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Fakeclaiming like that was pretty fun. I knew I was dead as soon as a real miller flipped, though - it was just unfortunate it happened with the first lynch. Still, I effectively traded for palmar and drh, and I'm pretty happy with that trade.
Also woohoo first win as scum!
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EPT
