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Newbie Mini Mafia XXIII
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YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
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YourHarry
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1. It encourages discussion, whether or not the player is scum. Discussion should be good for town. 2. Scums tend to lurk. Case in point: XIX 3. Having an inactive town around is a potential mod-kill that could mean losing the game, e.g. in LYLO. | ||
YourHarry
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YourHarry
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Thanks for schooling me last game. Although I did point out that you didn't start the game with one of your long ass analysis on why someone is scum, until I pointed this out. And even for the rest of the game, the frequency of your long ass analysis was significantly lacking compared to the first game we played together. This time, I have my eyes on you. | ||
YourHarry
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Alright. A bit of policy talk first: Blindly doing anything is a poor decision. If we're going to catch the correct people, it has to be based on reasoning and not the potential threat of a lurker. By the end of D1, we should have some read on most of the posters. It's much smarter to make a comparatively informed decision regarding someone we have interacted with than a random selection from those who have said very little. Policy lynching is not blind. It is a tested method to encourage discussion and is generally a pro-town strategy. This is different from lynching anyone who forgets to post one day. Further, if we allow lurking - and by allowing them to live, we are allowing them to lurk - there cannot be much "reasoning" to basis your "catching the correct people" on. [quote] I think policy lynchings (or safeties) are a bad idea in general. It not only limits the amount of logical reasoning involved, but it gives scum the means of avoiding suspicion, hiding in the holes we've created for them. Force them to defend themselves and we'll force information out of them.[/quote] On the contrary, policy lynching forces people to post. And with posts, there can be discussions and logical reasoning. With lurking, these things come by scarcely. Policy lynching is not a mean to an end. It is a strategy to enrich resources that townies can use. And I experienced first hand that the experienced player(s) support policy lynching lurkers. In the long run, it can be argued that this is also beneficial to the TL mafia community as a whole. Steer the TL mafia culture, where players are expected to actively participate. [quote] I think it's best if we avoid short claims like this without elaboration. Is the scumslip supposed to be that they both defended Golbat when Lvdr spread incorrect information? Or is it the spreading of information that is questionable? I could see arguments for both. Though it may be my inexperience showing a bit, this post seemed vague and despite your request for discussion only led to my confusion. Why call for discussion and then not clarify your own position? In this situation, Golbat seems to be simply defending himself from an accusation while Hapahauli was correcting misinformation. As for Lvdr, I don't think a mistake like this is enough to peg him as scum. If he makes a similarly misinformed statement later it would arouse my suspicions, but for now I'm considering him just about equal with everyone else.[/QUOTE] Your rest of the posts... there are way too many conditionals and wishy washy stuff. You see arguments for boht. You think your inexperience may be what's causing you to be wrong in your judgment. All to end in a wishy washy conclusiong - Lvdr is just as scummy as everyone else. Vote mkfuba [/b] | ||
YourHarry
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YourHarry
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Vote Promo | ||
YourHarry
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On August 06 2012 18:54 Promethelax wrote: I'm pretty sure this post is a joke but this does not show a town mentality ##FoS: that dude, Harry or whatever + Show Spoiler + I'm high as balls. I don't know how much of this makes sense. If you need a translator ask tomorrow This is scummy. Discuss. | ||
YourHarry
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mkfuba wrote: If they're both equally scummy, then wouldn't there be an equal chance of each being mafia? In that case wouldn't we gain more information from the flip of an active player than an inactive one? We keep going around in circles. The point is that by carrying out policy lynches, we will get active participation from all players. Thus, the goal is force everyone to be active. It is true that we may be able to gather more evidence from a flip of an active player, but especially in the beginning of the day, that also means that we have to forgo subsequent discussions by lynching an active player. Dandel Ion wrote: Why would you ever do that? Fix you post in an EBWOP instead. Now you come across as wanting town to have more work with analyzing you (seems pretty scummy to me), and also like a moron (not helpful for town in any way). I'd like to know what you were thinking there, just for reference. The reason why I didn't fix was because the post was still readable, and being unable to make edits meant that I have to make a duplicate post with no additional info. But I agree with you that I should have done that anyway. I should also use the preview function. | ||
YourHarry
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On August 06 2012 11:30 mkfuba07 wrote: Alright. A bit of policy talk first: Blindly doing anything is a poor decision. If we're going to catch the correct people, it has to be based on reasoning and not the potential threat of a lurker. By the end of D1, we should have some read on most of the posters. It's much smarter to make a comparatively informed decision regarding someone we have interacted with than a random selection from those who have said very little. Policy lynching is not blind. It is a tested method to encourage discussion and is generally a pro-town strategy. This is different from lynching anyone who forgets to post one day. Further, if we allow lurking - and by allowing them to live, we are allowing them to lurk - there cannot be much "reasoning" to basis your "catching the correct people" on. I think policy lynchings (or safeties) are a bad idea in general. It not only limits the amount of logical reasoning involved, but it gives scum the means of avoiding suspicion, hiding in the holes we've created for them. Force them to defend themselves and we'll force information out of them. On the contrary, policy lynching forces people to post. And with posts, there can be discussions and logical reasoning. With lurking, these things come by scarcely. Policy lynching is not a mean to an end. It is a strategy to enrich resources that townies can use. And I experienced first hand that the experienced player(s) support policy lynching lurkers. In the long run, it can be argued that this is also beneficial to the TL mafia community as a whole. Steer the TL mafia culture, where players are expected to actively participate. I think it's best if we avoid short claims like this without elaboration. Is the scumslip supposed to be that they both defended Golbat when Lvdr spread incorrect information? Or is it the spreading of information that is questionable? I could see arguments for both. Though it may be my inexperience showing a bit, this post seemed vague and despite your request for discussion only led to my confusion. Why call for discussion and then not clarify your own position? In this situation, Golbat seems to be simply defending himself from an accusation while Hapahauli was correcting misinformation. As for Lvdr, I don't think a mistake like this is enough to peg him as scum. If he makes a similarly misinformed statement later it would arouse my suspicions, but for now I'm considering him just about equal with everyone else. Your rest of the posts... there are way too many conditionals and wishy washy stuff. You see arguments for boht. You think your inexperience may be what's causing you to be wrong in your judgment. All to end in a wishy washy conclusiong - Lvdr is just as scummy as everyone else. Vote mkfuba | ||
YourHarry
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On August 06 2012 22:44 iamperfection wrote: Care to enlighten us on why? Also you didnt vote right. He is sure that my post was a joke, but still suspects that I am scum at the same time. Scum Harry may intentionally mess up the quotes to make it more difficult for town, in which case I won't be joking. Town Harry would accidentally mess up the quotes and joke about not fixing the quotes. So it seems to be a forced argument to show commitment and throw fake "reads" out there. This is scummy because scums have harder time coming up with genuine reads because they have to build a case on someone they know is town. | ||
YourHarry
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##Unvote ##Vote Promo | ||
YourHarry
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YourHarry
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I usually maintain that logical flaws is not a scum tell, because townies also make mistakes. But when the mistakes are borderline unreasonable, it is difficult for me to accept that such townie making the mistake is doing it because he is being forced to make a case against someone. | ||
YourHarry
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By the way, I encourage everyone to start voting more. FOS is OK but voting is more active way to incite discussion. Especially, early in the day, this is a good idea. Also, it's easier to keep track of who was voting who when we look back at earlier day. With alignments of players become known, being able to analyze who had their votes on which players is helpful. And it's not like we are stuck with the people we vote. | ||
YourHarry
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YourHarry
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On August 07 2012 09:35 Dandel Ion wrote: You start off with the unreadable post, instead of fixing it you make a joke. Yes that point is old, and we've been over it already. Then you vote without giving a reason: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=9#169 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=9#170 Just to jump onto somebody else right after (note that none of either players you accuse have posted inbetween): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=9#174 Both players have also FoS'd you before that, so you respond by voting for them. When pointed out by the powers that be that you are voting wrong, you go back to voting Promethelax instead http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=9#177 I'd like for you to make sense of that, for I cannot. Your play is confusing to me, because as town, I don't see why you'd do that. That's how I play. When I make a read, I post it. Sometimes I ask others to guess the reasons behind my vote. And sometimes, reasons behind my suspicions can seem trivial, especially in the beginning of the day. And as Hapha pointed out, I throw in different theories out there and see what people think of them and which one sticks. And they do a good job generating plenty of discussions early in the day. To be fair though, the second link referenced by "Just to jump onto somebody else right after" was actually me fixing my previous post regarding my suspicion on mkfuba. I guess that means you didn't read my original "messed" up post, because the contents were identical. And it seems that iamperfection seems to be blaming me for us losing the XXI game. I admit that I did not have a very good track record in voting or even in my reads that game. Though, I did suspect that calgar that game was town, which basically got ignored, understandably. I got some coaching though, and I think I am improving. You may disagree, but let's see how I do this game. I have a confidence in myself this game. Just trust me | ||
YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
In the course of less than a day, it is interesting to note that I went from the most obvious scum reads to town reads. I think we agree that it is scums are inherently motivated to jump on the easy target, that I was. People who were on my initial badnwagon were: iamperfection, mkfuba, lvdr, and dandel ion. I also think that scums are likely to quickly jump off the wagon once it becomes apparent that the wagon is not going anywhere. In this respect, iamperfection has been steady in his suspicion of me, even amidst of counter accusations from Hapha and others because his willingness to lynch me day 1. (Though, it could be argued that he didn't have much choice because suddenly changing his stance may make him suspicious). The most interesting thing during this "Harry is scum" to "Harry town development" was Lvdr's quick change of stance against me. While iamperfection was under heavy attacks from multiple players, Lvdr avoided much attention. Instead, Lvdr witnessed much dismay fall onto iamperfection's for trying to lynch me for being a "bad" player. I guess this must have intimidated Lvdr, because his stance suddenly changed from reading me as scummy to town. If you remember, even when Lvdr was initially attacking me, my meta reads based on my last game - that I play incoherently as town - was already available to Lvdr (via Hapha). What I find more amusing is the fact that Lvdr says two contradictory things in the span of two posts (15 minutes) regarding his reads on me: For the record, YH and golbat are likely townie reads in my opinion. Golbat is average suspicion, and YH is inscrutable. In summary, Lvdr's initial jumping on the YH bandwagon and his sudden change in his stance against me, when the meta information was already available at the time of his initial suspicion, makes him scummy. His lack of consistency in the recent posts, without much reasoning, also makes him a likely scum candidate flailing under pressure when Hapha and iamperfection had asked him to explain his reads. ##Unvote ##Vote Lvdr | ||
YourHarry
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YourHarry
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Sorry if this post seems like I am casting doubt on coaches' integrity or competence. I really am not. I just want to eliminate any cause for possible doubt at the end of the game. If mods and the coaches don't think this concern is trivial, I am OK with it. After all, it is just a game. However, being able to go to either town or scum coaches for advice without having to reveal their role, I think, could be a small but nice modification to the rule of this game. | ||
YourHarry
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You mean your code is hidden in your D&D post? | ||
YourHarry
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Thanks much <3 | ||
YourHarry
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On August 09 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote: I surprisingly agree with this - if town Harry behaves scummy, and if scum Harry behaves scummy, we might be better of without him no? + Show Spoiler + I'm joking of course, but given how much thought YourHarry put into his scum play for the last two days, I have high expectations of him if he's town. Yeah I'm more or less hoping to hear some policy talk from the newer guys, but I'm also interested in hearing how effective people thought the Day 1 policy was. To me, this is the epitome of town tell. I am almost sure that Hapah is town after this post. He was very adamant last game in disagreeing with iamperfection. Iamperfection argued that I might as well be lynched because I am a bad player and will confuse townies. Hapha was strongly against this - it seemed as if Hapha was disgusted at the thought of justifying lynching a bad townie. Scum hapha would have wanted to avoid confrontation. At least, it would have crossed his mind that people may find him suspicious for shifting his philosophy regarding lynching a scummy townie. I believe that scum Hapha would have argued that lynching a bad townie is still bad - especially when the memory of Hapha strongly disagreeing with iamperfection's justification of lynching me for being incoherent and confusing is obviously fresh in everyone's mind. Thus, I have a strong townie read on Hapha. | ||
YourHarry
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On August 09 2012 10:25 iamperfection wrote: Why do you think its necessary? I think you can contribute a lot more with just some staight up logic no? It didn't do so well in xxi I dream of catching scums by trolling. Spam the wall with incoherent "YOU ARE SCUM CAUGHT!! ROFLM LYNCH WITH FIRE/" What should sounds like zero-substance BS to innocent townies, could sound like an actual case to guilty scums. As long as I throw in there something that could resemble something of a case. That is my dream. One day... | ||
YourHarry
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YourHarry
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This game though, it just took one post for me to trust you. | ||
YourHarry
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Calgar, agreed? | ||
YourHarry
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On August 09 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote: I surprisingly agree with this - if town Harry behaves scummy, and if scum Harry behaves scummy, we might be better of without him no? | ||
YourHarry
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I mixed up Calgar and Hapha, LOL. I meant to say, "Hapha, agreed?" @mkfuba Do you agree that Hapha is most-likely town? Your last post, though, is basically a fluff and it also makes me wonder how you possibly missed Hapha's change in stance against lynching me. Did you draw scum again? | ||
YourHarry
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YourHarry
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On August 09 2012 14:22 Axero wrote: That doesn't mean Hapa is a townie. Scum know who eachother are, therefore Hapa could know your alignment and could be setting you up to get lynched. It's a good way to shift focus to someone else while also seeming like a townie. It is also possible that they are both scum. Setting someone up as a sacrifice to ensure everyone views the other as a townie would seem like a very effective strategy. Just my two cents. (Post made from mobile so apologies for lack of quotes) I bolded your post for empahsis. Here is a funny anecdote. When the game started, I decided not to open the role PM until I made a few posts just in case I drew scum again. I thought if I didn't know I was scum, I would not have made scum slips or give away any scum tells. So, not knowing my alignment, I began posting my reads based on what few posts were there at the time. I felt good about my town read on Hapha and even started wondering that maybe I should not have posted pro-town information (that Hapha is town) because there was a chance that I drew scum again. This is when I had the exact same thought as you, Axero. Hapha's sudden change of stance may reflect his scum-slip intention to semi-bus me, his scum partner. But upon checking my PM, I obviously realized this wasn't the case. BTW, I am trying to use this as an absolute proof that I am town. I could easily have made up this story as scum, but I just thought this was interesting. (And hopefully, some of you out there will buy this story, LOL). Since then, I realized that I missed something from Hapha's initial post. So more or less, I am withdrawing my town-read from Hapha. | ||
YourHarry
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Exactly. I wanted Hapha to bring this up first, but since you brought it up first, I will say it. I indeed missed the part where Hapha said he was joking. I actually did read the spoiler, but I mistakenly thought that Hapha was quoting someone else. It wasn't until a few minutes ago that I realized that the content inside the spoiler probably came from Hapha. Obviously, now, I take back my town read on Hapha. I don't know why Hapha didn't correct me regarding this when I first posted my town reads on him. Slightly suspicious of Hapha, because of it. Waiting for him to reply. | ||
YourHarry
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YourHarry
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I don't buy your case against Lvdr. While, whether one-liner posts without any logical explanations is beneficial to town in the early stages of the game is up for an argument, I do not think scums have tendency to post such one liners. I (though may be an exception) tend to post bunch of trolling one-liners as town (see my previous 2 games). Second, his read that both "me and Hapha are both scums or both towns" seems to be based on some logic. I agree that maybe he could have posted a quick explanations behind his read, but allowing some time for people to think about how Lvdr arrived at such conclusion could be good for town. In this case, he could have may be said "Discuss" or something. But as you mentioned, NEITHER town or scum has a motivation to post random suspicions. Add the fact that he was drunk... I fail to see scummy reads from Lvdr. Now, take Lvdr's last quote: "More plausible than yh then?" In context, Lvdr was simply asking Hapha for his opinions on who he thinks is scummier, me or Lvdr. If Lvdr indeed thought that Hapha and I were scums together, I can imagine Lvdr's intention to confirm this read based on Hapha's response. And, mkfuba, by your putative "scum motivation" do you mean Lvdr is actively trying to confuse town by posting incoherent one liners? If so, I find it hard to imagine scums methodically engineering incoherent one liners to confuse town. In summary, I accuse you of possibly attempting to endorse/set-up Lvdr bandwagon by fabricating evidence from bunch one-liners posted when he was drunk. | ||
YourHarry
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On August 09 2012 15:00 mkfuba07 wrote: Sorry, getting mega ninja'd over here. YourHarry: I don't see why I should have assumed you misread anything. I was unsure if it was my own inability to comprehend how you came to your conclusion or some mistake on your part that was causing me to not come to the same conclusion. In order to find out which was the case, I needed to verify that I was understanding your argument correctly and ask for a clarification of your evidence, because I didn't see any. I did note the possibility that you missed, or pretended to miss, the spoiler, but if you intentionally left it out then I wasn't giving you a "get out of false claim free" card. The way in which you explain and compensate for that mistake is information, just as much as the presence of the mistake itself. OK. I don't think you noted the possibility that I missed the spoiler. This came after I revealed that I indeed missed something from Hapha's post. I want to know when you first asked me for the evidence, if it crossed your mind that I simply may have missed the spoiler or not. | ||
YourHarry
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YourHarry
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Is it acceptable to take into consideration personal coaching experiences to speculate players that are being coached? Some good discussion going. I also want to point out the lurkers in this game. If you are not going to be active, please replace out. Axero, if you are going too busy to invest considerable efforts in this game, please replace out. Goodkarma, put more thoughts into your post. And not having anything to add to the discussion is not an excuse. There are always rooms for contribution. Keep reading, repeatedly if needed, until you do. I will be back in a bit to post my thoughts. Also would really like the moderator to allow speculation on who is being coached. As far as I am concerned, scums can lie about their coaching situation, so anything should go. | ||
YourHarry
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You still haven't contributed much to this game. Your only content post is this: On August 09 2012 14:22 Axero wrote: That doesn't mean Hapa is a townie. Scum know who eachother are, therefore Hapa could know your alignment and could be setting you up to get lynched. It's a good way to shift focus to someone else while also seeming like a townie. It is also possible that they are both scum. Setting someone up as a sacrifice to ensure everyone views the other as a townie would seem like a very effective strategy. Just my two cents. (Post made from mobile so apologies for lack of quotes) Let's suppose that Hapa did not include the spoiler that he was joking. Let's also suppose that I am town. Do you think Hapa would directly contradict his previous stance on lynching a bad townie in order to "set me up to be lynched"? Here is your other post that is purely based on your imagination: On August 10 2012 09:28 Axero wrote: FOS Hapa I've actually been pretty busy since the game started, but no I haven't made many posts. I'm sorting out my feelings on people and as this is my first game it's taking me some time to get used to it. However you are very quick to point to several people. The feeling I'm getting from you is that you're only being active to avoid suspicion. Seems like you're over doing it a little bit. Might be a snap reaction but it is how I feel at this point in the game. It is possible that Hapa is scum. But the fact that he is being active does not increase that chance. He has been active as townie before, and whether or not he is actively trying to match that meta is unclear. But let's suppose Hapa is scum. Who do you think are his scum partners? Who do you think can be cleared as town? | ||
YourHarry
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Have you ever been coached as town? If so, you don't feel the vibes that at least one of the players is being coached currently? Also, regarding your case on Axero: Link 1: He continues to lurk and I would be willing to place my vote on Axero for the policy reason. Link 2: I personally don't think it is out of question for scums to bus each other on day 1. I can imagine townies being paranoid of such instances. Lvdr, who I think is town, also posited the possibility that we are scums together. Link 3: I agree with you that Axero's case has no substance. Scums, when pressured to give reads, may grasp at whatever straw to fabricate a case, just to fit-in as a townie. While he may be correct that you, Hapa, is actively trying to convince us that you are a pro-town player, there is no evidence for this. At least, he does not provide any. And since logical errors are not necessarily a scum tell, I am hesitant to sheep you here that Axero is scum. Also, I wonder if scum Axero would have chosen you, Hapa, as one of his scum suspects. It seems that he could have readily sheep-ed existing cases or picked on one of the lurkers. Link 4: I have heard/read from multiple people that advertising newbiness is a town tell. But don't newb towns also bring up their newbiness, when being pressured? (Has he done this excessively? I didn't think this gave me any scum vibes) In addition, he said he was "coached". Knowing that scums in this game are being coached by marvelosity, I wonder if scum would have readily used the word "coached" when he simply meant that his friend told him to check the PM. WIFOM? Maybe, but I am inclined to think that self-guilt would have made scum Axero think twice. | ||
YourHarry
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On August 09 2012 19:18 mkfuba07 wrote: As I said, if I had told you "I think you missed this spoiler" then your response could have simply been "Oh, I did miss that spoiler. Sorry about that!" I did that in the Prom case from last game. In an attempt to get as much information flowing into the game as possible, I wanted to discover whether or not you intentionally "misread". I don't know why you would, but that doesn't mean that you don't have a reason to do so. When I asked for evidence from you, my three options were (not in a particular order): 1. I was misunderstanding the post 2. You were intentionally misrepresenting the post 3. You made a mistake in the post If I misunderstood the post, you would clarify it. If you made a mistake, you would either find the mistake immediately or try to clarify it. If you intentionally misrepresented the post, you would almost definitely notice your "mistake" right away. Since you then clarified it and I had not actually misunderstood the post, I feel confident in saying that you simply made a mistake and there was nothing malicious behind it. On August 09 2012 15:00 mkfuba07 wrote: Sorry, getting mega ninja'd over here. YourHarry: I don't see why I should have assumed you misread anything. I was unsure if it was my own inability to comprehend how you came to your conclusion or some mistake on your part that was causing me to not come to the same conclusion. In order to find out which was the case, I needed to verify that I was understanding your argument correctly and ask for a clarification of your evidence, because I didn't see any. I did note the possibility that you missed, or pretended to miss, the spoiler, but if you intentionally left it out then I wasn't giving you a "get out of false claim free" card. The way in which you explain and compensate for that mistake is information, just as much as the presence of the mistake itself. So you were testing me? I accept the logic behind not clarifying right away. It was a superior move, than to simply point out the spoiler that I missed. You could have possibly caught the scum this way. But the thing is: I don't believe you. If you are town, given the context of our posts, your primary goal should have been to determine if my clearance of Hapa as town is merit worthy. And this goal is apparent in your post. And yes, it is possible that in addition to your trying to determine whether Hapa is indeed town, that you were also testing me. But wouldn't you say it is too unnatural and methodical to be a simple townie wanting a clarification? Instead, it could be that your post was based on your scum motive to fit as a townie (and possibly to frame me based on according to my response). And your perfectly logical explanation behind your actions was custom designed only in afterthought. (I admit. I have no meta evidence to support this. I do not know how you play as town. I could simply be wrong in not giving you enough credit. But having played on the same scum team with you, I do know that scum mkfuba is capable of framing logical reasons around his earlier actions. More of the same, bolded for emphasis: On August 09 2012 18:51 mkfuba07 wrote: I apologize about the length, I've been thinking about this for hours XD I've already addressed this in my previous post, but I felt like that was already answered by Hapa. After considering it, I will definitely admit that I made some assumptions about Hapa which carried over into my read on Lvdr. I made an assumption that Hapa would not be suspicious of you, as you hadn't done anything overtly suspicious up to that point, and from what little I know of him from the last two days he doesn't cry scum without a reason. I then assumed that Lvdr would come to the same conclusion. This was a mistake and you can infer from it what you will, but it doesn't hurt my overall read. Your claim that you made these assumptions (which you claim you made when you initially found Lvdr suspicious), again, appear to be something you fictionalized to explain your earlier actions. None of these assumptions are actually mentioned in your initial case against Lvdr. ##Vote mkfuba | ||
YourHarry
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On August 09 2012 18:51 mkfuba07 wrote: When he saw it, he thought "They might both be mafia or both be town." That's not how townies think. They're suspicious and are operating under a lack of information. They would consider you two working together as scum after such a quick strong read, but they wouldn't carry that consideration into town because[u] there is no way for two townies to set up such a thing Here is a scenario, and a likely one: Lvdr thinks that scum Hapa would try to avoid suspicion, thus maintain his meta from previous game regarding policy lynching bad players. Lvdr, however, believes that Hapa may do this in an attempt to bus his scum partner. Thus, Lvdr logically deduces that scum Hapa means scum Harry. Further, Lvdr thinks that scum Harry probably would not attempt to confirm Hapa as a townie because it would be disadvantageous for the scum team. Although such action could potentially give scum Harry some townie points, Lvdr also believes that Harry and his scum team knows that such townie action can be easily dismissed as WIFOM. Thus, Lvdr does not think Harry is scum unless Hapa is. | ||
YourHarry
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Hapa and others, read my case on mkfuba. I don't think axero, sideni, or lvdr is a good lynch. | ||
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YourHarry
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In addition, I expressed my strong pro-town sentiments toward the three most accused players on Day 1 - Lvdr, sideni, and Axero. That must count for something. I was at work all day and just came back from the bar. I will see what I can do to contribute. | ||
YourHarry
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I clearly outlined why I thought Lvdr and Axero was town. Lvdr in particular felt like he was being coached. Just because you and many others found them suspicious, does not mean that town Harry would have found them suspicious as well. One thing I found suspicious about Promothelax was that he indiscreetly asked the mod what the rules were on encryption. It was almost as if he wanted to show the townies that he was a power role and he wanted to leave bread crumbs. Realistically, no power role would do that in fear that he will be targeted by the scums. This is especially the case because such alignment-sensitive questions could be asked via PM. | ||
YourHarry
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On August 11 2012 13:23 Hapahauli wrote: EBWOP: and by "reads on the other players," I specifically mean Shadysands, Mkfuba, and Kronen. As for why I thought your case against Mkfuba was bad... you vote mkfuba because you don't believe his answer, and you point out a lot of pro-town behavior in your accusation. His explanations are way too methodical. It is almost as if he came up with the reasons for his actions AFTER thinking about what would be the most logical explanation for his actions. And there is no trace of such line of thinking in the Mkfuba's initial posts including his initial accusation against Lvdr. Having played scum with Mkfuba, this does match his "underlying" meta. Whatever. I will finish reading and see if I change my mind. I am for Promo lynch though, probably. | ||
YourHarry
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On August 11 2012 07:44 Kronen wrote: Quick rebuttal. I didn't say I thought it was good. I did however change my approach to looking at the proceeding because of it. So much of the early interchange was based off of mkfuba's case. It was the only piece of substance written at that time. His choice of looking at how people reacted or rebutted it is interesting. That being said he grasped too much at straws and he suppositions were unfounded. In the future however I'm looking at the foundation of what he did there. What I fear from the lynching happening tonight is that we won't learn anything from it. GK will have my vote for tonight for two reasons 1) I have no concrete evidence upon which to draw correlations from other people's lynching, 2)he's been the most inactive yet trolly...but I fear a vote for him will turn over less than votes for others . ##vote GoodKarma @Shady, maybe you are right about Promo. I didn't think about baiting a NK. If this is true, talking about this is not really advantageous for town but the beans have been spilled I do not think Kronen is a confirmed townie. Actually above makes me very suspicious of him. Kronen suddenly switches his suspicion from Lvdr, now that GK bandwagon seems to be gaining momentum. In addition, his reasoning for voting GK are that he has no better reads - even though he was on Lvdr's case previously - and that GK has been inactive. But he ends the paragraph with the (underlined for emphasis) that implies that he really believes that GK is a scum and that he fears that GK will not gather enough votes. Currently, I support Kronen lynch. | ||
YourHarry
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But he ends the paragraph with the phrase (underlined for emphasis) that implies that he really believes that GK is a scum and that he fears that GK will not gather enough votes. | ||
YourHarry
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On August 11 2012 11:40 Hapahauli wrote: A couple of people I'm leaning Townie on: Note, none of these players are confirmed by any means, there are just people I feel are likely town Kronen - Kronen was the 6th and securing lynch vote for GoodKarma. While I won't rule out the possibility of a bus vote, given how sudden the lynch was on GK, I find it hard to believe that mafia could be that decisive in that situation. ShadySands - Even though he's been slighly lurky, his play has been noticably different from his mafia play in day 0.5. Furthermore, his vote on Lvdr is something I don't feel mafia would do. He draws attention to himself too much near the lynch deadline. My read here is much weaker than the one on Kronen - consider it a "gut feeling" I think a scum is more likely to bus their scum partner toward the end, when it becomes apparent that that his scum partner was going to be lynched regardless of their vote. GK bandwagon was starting to receive unparalleled support from town at this point, that I think scums are more likely to get on the bandwagon to earn some townie points. I agree that ShadySands is likely town. Fighting the momentous bandwagon on scum is generally a town tell, but I wouldn't say he is confirmed town. I can imagine scum partner purposely disagreeing with the imminent scum lynch for exactly the reason why we find ShadySands townish. | ||
YourHarry
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On August 11 2012 13:55 Shady Sands wrote: I thought that phrase meant that he fears a GK vote, if GK flips town, will tell us a lot less than a lynch of someone else. Am I reading it wrong? Oh. Hmm. It was unclear to me, but after re-reading the first sentence of his second paragraph, I agree with you. Regardless, his attempt to justify his switch in voting does not seem very genuine. Basically, all he is trying to say is that he doesn't know any better lynch and that GK has been lurking which is basically what other people have been saying. The timing of the vote, as I mentioned earlier, is suspicious. | ||
YourHarry
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On August 11 2012 12:20 Hapahauli wrote: Actually, the above goes for EVERYONE NOT CONFIRMED: @ Kronen, mkfuba, YourHarry, Promethelax, and ShadySands - I want to hear your thoughts on the other 4 players before the night is over. No exceptions. TOWN, make sure you hold each and every person on this list accountable for the above! I expressed my suspicion on Kronen, mostly for his timing of the vote. Mkfuba, I am beginning to feel less suspicious of him especially now that I have found the better target in Kronen. I still think Mkfuba is scummy. Promo, I agree with ShadySands that he could have been baiting the NK. Still, I do not exclude the possibility that he wanted townies to think that he was a power role. ShadySands seems town, for reason I stated earlier - that he disagreed with the GK lynch. In addition, our recent conversations pointing out his interpretation of Promethelax's encryption post seems very townie. He provided a logical real-time reaction that I think indicates he is actually wondering about Promo's alignment. | ||
YourHarry
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Really strong town reads: Hapa, Lvdr, Sideni, Axero Strong town reads: Shadysands Maybe town: iamperfection Null read: Dandel, Promo | ||
YourHarry
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Oh shit. Maybe mkfuba is town. | ||
YourHarry
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When Iamperfection voted, there were already total of 3 votes. These 3 votes had high momentum behind them, as they happened in the matter of 3 minutes. And then your posts urging him to vote: On August 11 2012 07:36 Hapahauli wrote: LET's ALL VOTESWITCH TO GOODKARMA Sideni and Lvdr are BAAAD townies! GoodKarma has not stuck his neck out, has tunneled suspicion on Axero and Sideni (easy targets), he hasn't made an original case or provided original analysis, and his play has been waaaaay too clean so far - Day 1 has been INSANE, there's no way people should be this clean! On August 11 2012 07:37 Hapahauli wrote: Please vote GK, we'll lobby in your absence. By the way, when iamperfection said "I don't count as being here?" it was before you guys piled on your votes on GK. It is not clear that whether iamperfection would have made himself appear if you guy started voting for GK. So now that people realized he was there and that he was strongly being urged by you to vote GK, scum iamperfection may have felt the need to go with the crowed. In addition, the momentum of the bandwagon was so strong that it seems reasonable to expect that scums thinking at this point that any resistance is futile. | ||
YourHarry
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On August 11 2012 07:52 Dandel Ion wrote: No matter the result, I'm pretty sure it was better than what we would've ran into I want to upgrade Dandel and downgrade iamperfection on the townie list: Really strong town reads: Hapa, Lvdr, Sideni, Axero Strong town reads: Shadysands, Dandel Maybe town: Null read: Promo, iamperfection scum reads: Kronen Need to re-evaluate mkfuba. | ||
YourHarry
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It seems like they know each other, maybe in real life, ...... etc etc. Can we talk about this? I think mod warned us not to? Please confirm. In the very least, Axero's interactions with mkfuba does not clear mkfuba in any way. And Mkfuba is still suspicious for reasons I provided earlier. | ||
YourHarry
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It is hard to tell if he's role hunting but this last post is bunch of fluff. "It would be be so beautiful Hapa if you were the cop... hot damn."??? I just ... don't get it. This is beyond me. @mkfuba I wasn't quite saying you are too good to be pro-town. It just seems that your reasons for your earlier actions, which you provided hours later, seem made up - especially since you never mention any hint of such reasoning in your initial posts. I already read your defense regarding this, and we just disagree. For now, we should focus on other matter. But why are you so worried about it? No one else seems to think you are scum. | ||
YourHarry
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Thank you Kronen for that confusing night post regarding JK. Scums probably thought Kronen was the JK. | ||
YourHarry
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On August 12 2012 05:59 Lvdr wrote: @yh why is iamperfection equally suspicious with prome? I explained my null read on iamperfection. I will read other people's cases on prom. Upon skimming, I think there may be merit behind prom lynch Day 2. I will post my thoughts when I have time. | ||
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YourHarry
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Shady mkfuba iamperfection Can anyone else really be scum? | ||
YourHarry
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Given that Promo would have been lynched anyway, this would have been a decent gambit (as long as no duplicate PR exists). Scum at this point would take this chance IMO. Too bad it won't work, unless he repeatedly claims role-blocked without getting NKed. As long as Promo flips RB, we need not worry. BTW, Sideni, do you mean you will talk about your strategy during Night 2? Or Beginning of Day 3? | ||
YourHarry
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YourHarry
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OK. I will give it to you. I am the Medic LOL...... Actually what if I am. Your scum team should target me... KEKEKEK | ||
YourHarry
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Scum Sideni would not want the medic revealed because revealed medic not getting NK'ed by scum means that Sideni is scum. But if Sideni kills the medic, then he has no excuse for him not getting NK'ed. | ||
YourHarry
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Sorry | ||
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Or do they?!! But Sideni, you do understand detectives only receive "Guilty" or "Innocent", not role names? | ||
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On August 14 2012 02:07 Hapahauli wrote: Only 6 more hours 'till he flips red I suppose. TBH, I will take a brick to the face if he flips green in light of his recent posting =/ If he flips green, there is one person we need to autolynch. Agreed? | ||
YourHarry
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Though I don't think Prom will flip green. so probably doesn't matter. | ||
YourHarry
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What should be amazing is Hapa reading Promo perfectly. This was before Sideni hinted him investigating Promo. It did impress me, for sure. Let's play again! LOL | ||
YourHarry
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But Hapa is?? | ||
YourHarry
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He pretty much soft-claimed cop. If I were you, I may have counter-claimed and went after Sideni... | ||
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YourHarry
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On August 14 2012 10:18 Hapahauli wrote: TBH, I didn't Sideni was soft claiming. He clearly didn't understand how the role worked, so I thought there's no way it could constitute a claim. Plus with my red check on Shady, I pretty much knew who the scum were. You knew Shady was scum but not Promo was. I was pretty sure he was claiming. And even when people acknowledged that Sideni was probably the detective, Sideni did not clarify that he was just a VT. I don't get it... It is true that he didn't understand how the role worked, which does not eliminate the chance that scum Sideni pretending to be the cop. | ||
YourHarry
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On August 14 2012 10:18 Blazinghand wrote: oh no did I ignore you! I'm so sorry ;_; No, you gave me a long, generic response (you probably copied and pasted from your previous coaching conversations ) regarding how to outline a case. | ||
YourHarry
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Either way, could you guys analyze this game? I agree that Hapa definitely puts in a lot of effort, but I would like to learn what makes a good scum hunting. Regardless of the result, was GK good lynch simply because he was lurking? How was town's analysis after GK's flipping scum? Is it safe to say that scum should bus in that situation? Scum Hapa or Lvdr busing GK hard, just because they were the first ones to start the lynch on GK, gave them almost confirmed town status? How can town deal with such scum actions, especially if detective does not exist or has been killed? Was Shady scummy? Obviously Hapa had investigated him, so he knew. But how should other players have known that he is scummy. To me, it was simply sort of by choice of elimination, which again could be dangerous because scums could bus to kill their scum partner, Godfather or not. Godfather is better than a lowly goon only if there is a detective, and only if detective happens to investigate him, BTW. To me, Shady's opposing the sudden shift in votes (without much reason beside lurking) that seemed to secure the GK lynch looked town to me. Should I have analyzed this in another way? I still don't understand what Sideni was trying to do. Anyone care to explain? | ||
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