EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXII - Page 2
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
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ObviousOne
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
Other thing was right, too. Having the fun before we have fun! Good luck, have Batman. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
And since it has come up, let's not get too caught up on blue roles. Remember, the most important players in this game And last but not least, since I have already contributed a set of haiku, I feel like a limerick will do: There once was a doggie named Risen Whose owner was never in prison >Shot once in the head >Now sadly, is dead And the perp has now somehow gone missin' | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On July 27 2012 07:04 Promethelax wrote: Well while we're waiting let's breadcrumb secrets to each other. Victory, I'm sure, will be ours if we strive for it. Ghost must be being really nice to us because I already have a town read on all the players in this game, he must want us all to live happily ever after and not have to kill each other. Okay, so that isn't actually true but I hope a host does that eventually just to be a dick. Hrm. Pretty sure we just covered this. Let's not encourage giving away any useful information before we can get any, mkay? | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
Ange777: + Show Spoiler [Ange777's last post] + On July 27 2012 23:24 Ange777 wrote: @Promethelax: You made some good points on Shady. I must admit I missed them. I felt a strange vibe from all his fluff posts but couldn't put the finger on it. Although before reading your post I was astonished to read this: @Shady: Why would you assume that one of them has to be scum? It's not like both of them were claiming one blue role and therefore one of them had to be lying. This really seems as if you were preparing for possible mislynches. I want to hear your defense. Totally agree with this concept. We should not let ourselves fall into the trap of confirming reds by mislynching town. This is true even on day 1. @Promethelax: I disagree that all lists are bad. That's just some people's method for addressing everything in a single post. While it is true that lists such as the one that got my lynched as town in my last game, as well as the one here posted by Golbat, can be misconstrued as scummy behavior, I don't feel that they indicate alignment. Look at the intent behind the list each time you read them. I don't want to have to read a bunch of lists, either. I wanted to give out as much information as I could knowing I probably couldn't get back before deadline. Outside of that my play was sloppy and ill informed. We shouldn't talk too much about my last game (Newbie Mini XXI), however, because that game is still not finished. Also, great catch in your last post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15625606 We should keep an eye on everyone's posting behavior, though, not just Shady Sands and Mordanis. @Mordanis: Great initiative to get the ball rolling on conversation. Your early case has initiated a lot of discussion, right or wrong, and that's pro-town behavior. Anyone keeping an eye on Mordanis specifically might want to note that we're not anywhere close to the deadline and this kind of behavior (generating discussion) is at least opening up avenues of discussion. Mordanis can't make you vote one way or another, decide the strength of his case(s) on your own. @MrMedic: Don't be afraid to post! We promise Marvellosity won't come out and shoot you, too. Let us know your thoughts. @Golbat: Your play reminds me of my own in my first game. Some friendly advice: focus on motive, not on what's being said. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
goodkarma, you saw from my pre-game post history that I am an active poster, so you can back off on the lurker claims when the evidence was right there to see. I posted before the baseball game I just got back from, between the time of my post and when I left, there were ~4 additional posts added. My pre-game post history is indicative of being able to do so at the time. No mystery here, time available before --> less time available now. Thank you for keeping tabs on the low content posters, my filters were broken. We should have been questioning Keirathi's motive for asking in the thread in this case. The role explanation that was printed clear as day in the OP portion entitled "The Setup" which has not been edited (up to this point) since 7/21, or about 6 real days, long before the game started: On July 16 2012 23:01 ghost_403 wrote: Roleblocker: You are a Roleblocker! You're kind of a scary fellow. Every night, you may stand outside someone's house and convince them that it really is better to go back to bed, rather than whatever they had planned that night. Your target will always be notified of a roleblock. Roleblocker: You are a Roleblocker! You're kind of a scary fellow. Every night, you may stand outside someone's house and convince them that it really is better to go back to bed, rather than whatever they had planned that night. Your target will always be notified of a roleblock. I fail to see how this information would need further confirmation or clarification. The fact that this was missed prior to asking implies similar things about reading our posts. Shady Sands' is 100% convinced Mordanis is scum. And is willing to waiting 2 days to lynch him. This is bad play. If we identify scum, we kill them. No crazy circular logic of if x person dies then we have more information y person. Just no. Scum can scheme, they are aware of eachother. Town cannot, except in the case of Masons. Shady Sands is my current #1 scum read. #FOS: Shady Sands | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On July 28 2012 14:02 aRyuujin wrote: Last post for the night @Keir: yeah, I'll stop haikus lol Ninja posted while I was typing up my last. Thank you for changing your ways <3 | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
##VOTE Shady Sands | ||
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ObviousOne
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ObviousOne
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----- Vig hit might have been useful tonight, but I don't see us being able to come to an agreement on who should have been shot. With a green (as in new) player behind the trigger as Vig, I would have hoped that he reached out for some coaching. Other town power roles in a similar situation should be reaching out to BlazingHand if you need advice on how best to help the town. Going to go back through filters in a few hours, I have to read through and try to understand the motive for each person who voted for Golbat. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
Okay, so most of the votes on Golbat were related to his newbie-card play. I guess I can accept that as a scum tactic, but as you've seen here it's also evidence of someone trying really hard in their first game. Outside of his defense of being a new player, he was willing to switch votes in order to secure a Day 1 Lynch (I interpreted this as to prevent a no-lynch, majority vote rule), which Keirathi points out as scummy behavior. I disagree with the assessment. We already discussed that votes are a good form of early pressure. It's unfortunate that Golbat wasn't able to get back in time to role claim or perhaps make a better case against another player. Zorkmid's vote comes off to me as a bandwagon vote. Evidence against Golbat was that Golbat finally settled on a decision for his best scum read? On July 27 2012 22:11 Zorkmid wrote: Pretty arbitrary reason to vote for someone. Can you explain what you mean by town vibe in that post? (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15625737) I could understand not having a definite scum read from it, but implying the opposite it a bit premature.Another of these people is Golbat: So far, Golbat has, in this order: voted Mordanis unvoted Mordanis FoS Mordanis His unvote seems to coincide with Mordanis's making a case on him. He claims he backed off the vote because: I'm not sure what this could mean, but I think that it's worth pointing out. It's one of the stranger seeming posts I've read in this game. Mordanis tunneled on Golbat from the looks of it. It matches his behavior earlier in the game, tunneling on Keirathi. On July 27 2012 15:36 Mordanis wrote: So...Golbat: The entire time so far he seems to have been itching to get on my bandwagon. His first post with more than 1 line says: + Show Spoiler + On July 27 2012 09:15 Golbat wrote: Howdy guys! This will be my first game of mafia ever that wasn't an sc2 UMS, and those I could never quite get the hang of (mostly due to nobody else having a clue what was going on either). Hopefully, I'll be able to make more sense of the game in a format like this. As far as the game goes, Mordanis' post about Keir's post where he was "virtually claiming town RB" seems to be a pretty scummy thing to do. It didn't seem to me to be a secret claim of any sort, just a rules clarification. Even if it was a super-secret claim that he could use later, I wouldn't believe him if that was the only evidence he had. From what I've read elsewhere, that type of posting is classic scum behavior. Look like you're helping the town and trying to hunt scum, when in reality you're just blowing a townie's mistakes clear out of proportion to sow confusion and doubt. Not everyone has posted, so I don't yet want to commit to a vote, but I've got my eye on you Mordanis. First he makes an excuse for potential scumslips (First time in a non UMS, take it easy on me), and then proceeds to quietly second the position of DarthPunk. He seems to be trying to avoid attention while being able to make excuses later on, with the added bonus of being able to hop onto a bandwagon on me without much thought from other players. His second post + Show Spoiler + On July 27 2012 11:31 Golbat wrote: I think that lynching a lurker day one is only a good idea if we have no reads on people who might be scum. As far as that goes for me, I already have an idea of who might be scum, so I won't get behind lynching a lurker today. Also, there's not so many people playing that we can afford to kill people off just because they aren't contributing enough. I mean, if you don't post at least once per day, you get modkilled anyways, so it's not lurkers we should watch out for, it's multiple contentless posts (i'm looking at you MrMedic). On July 27 2012 13:36 Golbat wrote: I mean honestly, it's gone on long enough. ##Vote Mordanis If you're red, try to be less obvious next time. If you're green, try to be less scummy next time. I certainly hope you're not a blue. Awesome, he jumps on the bandwagon in 2nd/3rd position, early enough that he seems to be "leading", but late enough that he can avoid later suspicion by saying "Shady was in front of me!". He even tries to end the discussion by agreeing that the case on me is open and shut. Vague Pro-town comments + early excuse + bandwagon-ing + anti-discussion = quadruple scummy. So for right now at least: ##Vote: Golbat 1) Hating on the newbie card (redundant) 2) The quote regarding Golbat having a potential read on scum but not committing yet, which is also explainable by actual newbie play. 3) I guess he got tired of being tunneled, ding ding! Another newbie trait! Pretty shaky reasoning for being scummy, in my opinion. It didn't even register as scummy since it looked a lot like my play in my last game where I was in a similar position. How did you not find Shady Sands saying he is willing to pass up on lynching someone that he considers definitely scum as less scummy than newbie play, hrm? It IS newbie mafia after all. Also, please stop spoilering color commentary. Do it without spoilers or refrain, please. One-line spoilers are nearly as distracting as the poetry was. Thank you. I'm still interested in looking at Shady Sands. Other people who have expressed concerns regarding him have been > Keirathi - that Shady's posting resembles a cop's posting in a previous game. I'd like to know how that's relevant, unless Shady was that cop, we're talking about different things completely. > goodkarma - Found the day 1 lynch stats thing to be scummy. Likes that Shady has been one of the driving forces behind town conversation. Notes that Shady doesn't jump on every bandwagon. > aRyuujin - Haiku'd that the stats thing was scummy. Also mentions that scum would likely not lie in such an easily identifiable way. > Ange777 - His filter reveals that Shady's play has been pretty confusing (regarding flips and what those flips reveal, between Mordanis and Golbat) So here's what I'm putting together from all of this: Shady Sands' play is rather deliberately confusing and time wasting: 1) Bringing in statistics without identifying exactly how they were obtained, ergo they were not easily identifiable as a lie >>>>Lots of time is wasted on people focusing on the stats, trying to verify them, instead of spending time looking at what is more readily confirmed: anything in the thread. 2) Trying to understand what he meant by what flips reveal about the surviving town members, before any other deaths occured >>>>This will end up being a bunch of circular logic on Day 1 given that no other information is known to plain old town members. Delays relevant conversation away from today's discussion and focuses on tomorrows. 3) Being willing to let someone who he considers definitely scum survive the night >>>>No. We always kill scum, potentially removing scum power roles in the process. 4) While in the process of writing this, Shady has claimed that I voted for Golbat. >>>>This is wrong, as my vote was on Shady. More misdirection/confusion. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On July 30 2012 08:44 Keirathi wrote: Obvious.660 A lot of my mistrust of Obvious stems from similar reasons to my distrust of Promethelax. He was extremely active in the pre- and early-game stages, then has virtually disappeared except to push Shady. However, he said Okay, so he didn't show up again before the end of the day to defend his read, what's the big deal? Well he posted just THREE minutes after the day post saying "What the fuck." If you were around for the day post, or had the ability to be around, why weren't you there defending your read of Shady? Again, from my perspective it feels like you were just ambivalent as to which one died, and keeping your vote on Shady distanced you from the people who voted Golbat. That's when I got to the computer. When the day post was happening. It's more telling of my conviction that I stayed on target with Shady Sands. [b]Why do people seem to think I switched my vote to Golbat for Day 1?[/n] That is false, and my list of suspects grows every time you do that. (Shady Sands, and now we add Zorkmid.) I felt more strongly about my argument on Shady Sands than I did about the case on Golbat. I left my case and evidence for the town to decide. On July 30 2012 05:49 Shady Sands wrote: b) Obvious I'm still not satisfied with Obvious' lack of defense of his own position prior to the D1 lynch. Obvious hasn't attempted to respond to this argument yet. Which specific allegation(s) that I am lurking did you want me to address? That I posted frequently before the game started and now am posting less? Many people have pointed this out, but you and Keirathi specifically are asking for responses, so I would like to know what the exact argument is in plain text here and I will respond to that. Seriously, if you want me to describe in minute detail every hour of my day from here out, I'm more than willing to share with you those details. I'm unemployed, I tend to sleep 12 hours at a time, my cousin is getting married in six weeks and this weekend was her bridal shower and bachelorette party which I was helping with (once again, Shady Sands at it again with the confusion that I was at a wedding. That's not what I said). I'm trying to emphasize here that there is no mystery to why I haven't been posting much up to this point, but my reasons are being dismissed as scummy excuses. I also already told you to expect my posting to pick up by Monday, which is now arriving soon (my time, EST). You can call me a liar and policy lynch if you want if my posting isn't up to your standards if it will make you feel better, but you'll find you're just distracting yourself from finding actual scum. Promethelax's case on Goodkarma (It won't spoiler and I can't figure out why, sorry it's going to be longer than it needs to be edited out non-GK related material and some "snips") Link to original cast post from Promethelax: [spoiler] On July 30 2012 10:02 Promethelax wrote: [/spoiler]On to a case on GoodKarma: We begin with this early assertation that lynching lurkers is not the best idea Karma wants us to look for guys who are somewhere in the middle, not lurking but not leading either. Okay, that seems reasonable, I don;t agree with his opinion but it is one that makes some sense as long as he sticks with it. Oh...well. I guess he changed his mind based on...something? He follows this post with an assertion that lynching a green lurker is good for town which doesn't resonate well with me. Having one less townie is bad more townies is good. Having a pants-on-head retarded townie is still better than not having them, townies are the life blood of town our win-con is getting all the scum before they get us. We need townies alive so that MYLO and LYLO are postponed, even if the townies we have suck they are an asset to town. After Golbat flips our man Karma says this Someone who feels this strongly must have defended their read in the thread and actively worked to make sure such an obvious townie wasn't lynched. oh, I see, all those things which you totally knew were townie traits were scum traits when you swapped on to him but you weren't really sure he would flip mafia. This seems like scum trying to distance themselves from a mislynch and buy townie cred for having the 'right' read before the flip. Here's a case that's easy to follow, one that I find myself compelled to agree with as a good place to be looking barring any better defense than "oops, I guess I was wrong". I hope to see this further developed whenever goodkarma makes it back. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
It's more telling of my conviction that I stayed on target with Shady Sands. Why do people seem to think I switched my vote to Golbat for Day 1? That is false, and my list of suspects grows every time you do that. (Shady Sands, and now we add Zorkmid.) I fucked up the [/b] | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
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ObviousOne
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My night post: On July 29 2012 13:19 Obvious.660 wrote: So here's what I'm putting together from all of this: Shady Sands' play is rather deliberately confusing and time wasting: 1) Bringing in statistics without identifying exactly how they were obtained, ergo they were not easily identifiable as a lie >>>>Lots of time is wasted on people focusing on the stats, trying to verify them, instead of spending time looking at what is more readily confirmed: anything in the thread. 2) Trying to understand what he meant by what flips reveal about the surviving town members, before any other deaths occured >>>>This will end up being a bunch of circular logic on Day 1 given that no other information is known to plain old town members. Delays relevant conversation away from today's discussion and focuses on tomorrows. 3) Being willing to let someone who he considers definitely scum survive the night >>>>No. We always kill scum, potentially removing scum power roles in the process. 4) While in the process of writing this, Shady has claimed that I voted for Golbat. >>>>This is wrong, as my vote was on Shady. More misdirection/confusion. Now let's add 5) Claiming I voted for Golbat >>>>Just responded to this above, I did not vote for Golbat, nor did I intend to vote for Golbat at the time. Shady Sands wanted to let a person he (at the time) considered scum live through lynch day one and few people saw a problem with this but me. That was my scum read and I stuck with it. 6) Claims I was at a wedding when I clearly said wedding stuff. >>>>Note I didn't say: "I'm going to a wedding guys I'm gonna be trashed and fucking useless for like two days, so don't expect to see me!" I just said I had stuff going on during the day (stuff that doesn't happen while I sleep, unfortunately) that was wedding related. Why assume it was a full wedding, a way better excuse that would let me get away without posting even longer. I'm not trying to get out of contributing, I just have shit to do. I certainly could have come back and used that as an excuse for not posting by delaying my contributions even further if I wanted to, as it was open to me with his assumption. MrMedic please come out of hiding and tell me what you think about Promethelax' case on Zorkmid. I'm going to be here for a while and I'll check in periodically to respond to any further concerns you might have. Please also note that I'm not dead set on just tunneling Shady Sands. I'll be going through other filters during the next few hours to see what other cases I feel comfortable making. | ||
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ObviousOne
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My points against Shady Sands is a series of evidence that makes me think he is deliberately being disruptive and engaging willfully in anti town play. If you came up with them first, I am glad you brought them up. Especially the part where you said exactly all those things as I wrote them, including the part where you pointed out #4/5 and knew everything about my schedule to point out #6. Sorry about repeating the one about Golbat, I added to it so at least it's not a complete waste of a point. Honestly didn't even look at my own quote to check if I had listed the point about me voting for Golbat. Trying to get deeper into the game tonight if people are on to talk about things since I'm up and I'm here and my absence has been annoying people. | ||
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ObviousOne
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