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On August 04 2012 20:24 wherebugsgo wrote:I didn't play in SSB64. However if we're going to cherry pick quotes then look at these from LV (town) Show nested quote +On May 28 2012 01:02 grush57 wrote:On May 27 2012 23:30 Toadesstern wrote:
idk, my last 2 games I was preeeetty hard owning as town.
Cool. On May 27 2012 23:30 Toadesstern wrote:
idk, my last 2 games I was preeeetty hard owning as town.
In Storm I gave a list with 5 names of possible mafias which ended up including 3 mafias although VE ended up being MVP that game because he somehow managed to get an even better list making a list of 4 or 5 people that included all 4 mafias (if I remember correclty). In C9++ #2 I said #1 mafia is either A or B, #2 mafia is C, #3 mafia is either D or E while saying everyone else is surely town and it ended up being A, C and E.
Okay, getting 3 out of 5 mafia right isn't an achievement. In LIV, I predicted a lot of the mafia aswell even though I was the "scum mvp" On May 27 2012 23:30 Toadesstern wrote:
So yeah I am quite confident that I'll lynch into a mafia d1 right now. Really, right now with 24 townies and NO solid cases you are confident to hit a scum? Go back to Irk. and LVI (scum) Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 02:21 grush57 wrote:On July 05 2012 00:08 Twelve wrote:
I agree with Kitana and the causualman lynch.
##vote: casualman YES LETS SHEEP A USELESS PLAYER THAT WILL GIVE US TOWNIES NO INFO AND WASTE A WHOLE CYCLE. U CRAY CRAY. oR MAYBE YOUR SCUM. HMM HMMHMHMHMHMMHMHMHMHMHMHMHMHMMHMHMHMHMHMHMHMH All you have to think, and scum will fall! ##Unvote: Vivax##Vote: Twelve
The first one looks like it is something way more into the day than what we're talking about: D1 openers or D1 talk in general. Correct me if I'm wrong.
What I quoted was his 3rd post from SSB-64, if you want to see more go ahead:
+ Show Spoiler [grush-SSB64] +On July 02 2012 10:56 grush57 wrote:
My first pick was Samus, didn't get him. On July 03 2012 03:36 grush57 wrote:
Alright. On July 03 2012 11:06 grush57 wrote:
##Vote: HomerunBat
GEEET HIM
On July 04 2012 01:32 grush57 wrote:
Yall wanna tussle? On July 04 2012 01:41 grush57 wrote:
I already found scum day1, just waiting for the deadline bro. On July 04 2012 01:58 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 01:55 HomerunBat wrote:
in very recent history you voted for talismania
told us to kill grush
and now just said saturn is scum.
I'm getting pretty tired of your garbage to be honest. You are just as bad as grush.
-s0L GOOD WAY TO DIVERT THE ATTENTION SCUM ............... On July 04 2012 03:20 grush57 wrote:
gg iGrok talismania scum team. NICE SLIGHT PRESSURE U TWO!
##Unvote: HomerunBat
##Vote: IGrok
Here you go, that's no longer cherrypicking. That's quoting 1:1 what he posted (filter: clicky me!). Except for his first post everything he posted is like the one post you quoted.
But than again, SSB-64 had this PYP mechanic so you obviously have to inform people about your picks if you didn't get your first pick, so I'm pretty sure he would have done the first post no matter of alignment.
Again. I don't see a difference between those two "metas" that would instantly trigger an wtf-dude-got-to-be-mafia after his very first post.
On another note: What did you think about the case prplhz did on glasse?
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yo guys I can't play with Erandorr anymore, he's too fucking bad.
Just lynch me.
##unvote
##vote wherebugsgo
I'm not even kidding, this is a waste of my time. I know I have said that it's a priority for townies to establish their innocence d1 and all that. However, if you actually agree with him that I am scum then there is no way I will be relieved of suspicion at any point in this game. If I catch scum, you will say I bussed them because I am good at scum. If I don't catch scum, then I will be lynched for not catching scum.
Just kill me now and get it over with so that we're all happier for it.
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It's kinda hard to fogure out what you're talking about when talking about Erandorr all the time and him being stupid without knowing what you're talkinga bout.
Just saying.
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On August 04 2012 20:42 Toadesstern wrote:
It's kinda hard to fogure out what you're talking about when talking about Erandorr all the time and him being stupid without knowing what you're talkinga bout.
Just saying.
in PMs.
also, think about this:
Erandor's entire case against me hinges on me publicly outting mafia masons (as a scum tactic.)
If I were scum and I knew VE and Erandorr were town masons why wouldn't I just privately tell my team instead of posting to the thread?
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On August 04 2012 19:56 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 18:51 strongandbig wrote:man bugs you can do better than this. what, did you forget that VE and I were in wheel of fortune too? Ace's Scum 101: get town to lynch people for being bad rather than for being scum. I mean, I may be bad but I'm not stupid. On August 04 2012 17:47 wherebugsgo wrote:
also no, obviously I think all the other lynch candidates are inferior.
Why should we resort to trusting a vig to shoot grush? How do we even know if we have a vig? This sort of stuff really pisses me off, because it delays the inevitable. On August 04 2012 09:00 wherebugsgo wrote:
Your basic assumption that outing masons in this game is antitown is flawed. I already pointed that out when...oh, I dunno, I called you bad several times for thinking it.
If you out masons then you pressure them. Zephirdd was 100% correct on why I did it (and if he's scum that was a pretty brilliant play by him). The goal is to distinguish the town masons from the scum masons via their handing of the pressure.
Also it has the side effect of scaring mafia masons into potentially not using their roles if they fear they will instantly be outted and put in a small pool of players for scrutiny. Playing like Ace only works when you're Ace and always play like Ace. On August 03 2012 20:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
1. Being a mason isn't alignment indicative (therefore outting a mason is rather worthless)
Town wbg would realize that this logic is terrible. Town wbg wouldn't give multiple different explanations for outing masons on day 1 without discussing it with them and without participating with the town discussion of whether masons should claim. (for reference, those explanations were "because VE and I are good and this way medics might medic us", and "to pressure the masons") Town wbg wouldn't try to lead a lynch on a bad player just for being bad, without making a case, etc. This isn't town wbg. ##vote: wherebugsgo Number 1: I did not give multiple explanations for outting the masons. I gave one. I don't see how you asserting that I gave multiple explanations is an indication that I did.
Yeah you did. First you said it was so mafia would have to wifom over whether to shoot you and VE, then you said it was to pressure VE.
On August 04 2012 19:56 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 18:51 strongandbig wrote:man bugs you can do better than this. what, did you forget that VE and I were in wheel of fortune too? Ace's Scum 101: get town to lynch people for being bad rather than for being scum. I mean, I may be bad but I'm not stupid. On August 04 2012 17:47 wherebugsgo wrote:
also no, obviously I think all the other lynch candidates are inferior.
Why should we resort to trusting a vig to shoot grush? How do we even know if we have a vig? This sort of stuff really pisses me off, because it delays the inevitable. On August 04 2012 09:00 wherebugsgo wrote:
Your basic assumption that outing masons in this game is antitown is flawed. I already pointed that out when...oh, I dunno, I called you bad several times for thinking it.
If you out masons then you pressure them. Zephirdd was 100% correct on why I did it (and if he's scum that was a pretty brilliant play by him). The goal is to distinguish the town masons from the scum masons via their handing of the pressure.
Also it has the side effect of scaring mafia masons into potentially not using their roles if they fear they will instantly be outted and put in a small pool of players for scrutiny. Playing like Ace only works when you're Ace and always play like Ace. On August 03 2012 20:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
1. Being a mason isn't alignment indicative (therefore outting a mason is rather worthless)
Town wbg would realize that this logic is terrible. Town wbg wouldn't give multiple different explanations for outing masons on day 1 without discussing it with them and without participating with the town discussion of whether masons should claim. (for reference, those explanations were "because VE and I are good and this way medics might medic us", and "to pressure the masons") Town wbg wouldn't try to lead a lynch on a bad player just for being bad, without making a case, etc. This isn't town wbg. ##vote: wherebugsgo Third, how is being a mason not being alignment indicative (a fucking fact of the setup) "terrible logic"?
That's not the part that's wrong. The part that's wrong is "therefore outting a mason is rather worthless."
On August 04 2012 19:56 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 18:51 strongandbig wrote:man bugs you can do better than this. what, did you forget that VE and I were in wheel of fortune too? Ace's Scum 101: get town to lynch people for being bad rather than for being scum. I mean, I may be bad but I'm not stupid. On August 04 2012 17:47 wherebugsgo wrote:
also no, obviously I think all the other lynch candidates are inferior.
Why should we resort to trusting a vig to shoot grush? How do we even know if we have a vig? This sort of stuff really pisses me off, because it delays the inevitable. On August 04 2012 09:00 wherebugsgo wrote:
Your basic assumption that outing masons in this game is antitown is flawed. I already pointed that out when...oh, I dunno, I called you bad several times for thinking it.
If you out masons then you pressure them. Zephirdd was 100% correct on why I did it (and if he's scum that was a pretty brilliant play by him). The goal is to distinguish the town masons from the scum masons via their handing of the pressure.
Also it has the side effect of scaring mafia masons into potentially not using their roles if they fear they will instantly be outted and put in a small pool of players for scrutiny. Playing like Ace only works when you're Ace and always play like Ace. On August 03 2012 20:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
1. Being a mason isn't alignment indicative (therefore outting a mason is rather worthless)
Town wbg would realize that this logic is terrible. Town wbg wouldn't give multiple different explanations for outing masons on day 1 without discussing it with them and without participating with the town discussion of whether masons should claim. (for reference, those explanations were "because VE and I are good and this way medics might medic us", and "to pressure the masons") Town wbg wouldn't try to lead a lynch on a bad player just for being bad, without making a case, etc. This isn't town wbg. ##vote: wherebugsgo Fourth, there is absolutely something wrong with you if you think I am a better lynch than grush. Grush is playing to his LVI meta. If you don't care to read LVI, then you can continue being bad. Also, I'm not voting grush for being bad. He's going to be bad regardless of his alignment, but I've already pointed out how as town he doesn't actually troll this hard, unless he's somehow become even worse than he already was.
Yeah so if you're going to claim you were able to determine grush's alignment based on his single first post you're going to have to convince me he doesn't troll as town. I don't think you're going to be able to convince me of that because he does. He might troll more as scum than he does as town, but the one post he'd made at the time you started trying to lynch him isn't enough to convince me he's "playing to his scum meta."
On August 04 2012 20:36 wherebugsgo wrote:
yo guys I can't play with Erandorr anymore, he's too fucking bad.
Just lynch me.
##unvote
##vote wherebugsgo
I'm not even kidding, this is a waste of my time. I know I have said that it's a priority for townies to establish their innocence d1 and all that. However, if you actually agree with him that I am scum then there is no way I will be relieved of suspicion at any point in this game. If I catch scum, you will say I bussed them because I am good at scum. If I don't catch scum, then I will be lynched for not catching scum.
Just kill me now and get it over with so that we're all happier for it.
Yeah well fuck you very much too. Seriously after how pissed you got at RoL for trolling bureaucracy mafia, and now you're trying to get us to think you're a self-voting pissed townie? I don't buy it. (also playing against wincon etcetera.)
On August 04 2012 20:44 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 20:42 Toadesstern wrote:
It's kinda hard to fogure out what you're talking about when talking about Erandorr all the time and him being stupid without knowing what you're talkinga bout.
Just saying. in PMs. also, think about this: Erandor's entire case against me hinges on me publicly outting mafia masons (as a scum tactic.) If I were scum and I knew VE and Erandorr were town masons why wouldn't I just privately tell my team instead of posting to the thread?
Erandorr's case has jack shit to do with why I think you're scum.
jack
shit.
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oh yeah and the answer to your bolded question at the end of your last post is:
1. because VE is good enough to breadcrumb who he masons, and you publicly announcing it gives you cover to kill him without revealing that you're scum. (ie, if you just killed him we would look through his filter, find his breadcrumb, and kill you.)
2. For the same reason you want us to be talking about grush and killing him for his first post not being good: to leave town in a state of disorganized confusion.
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On August 04 2012 20:44 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 20:42 Toadesstern wrote:
It's kinda hard to fogure out what you're talking about when talking about Erandorr all the time and him being stupid without knowing what you're talkinga bout.
Just saying. in PMs. also, think about this: Erandor's entire case against me hinges on me publicly outting mafia masons (as a scum tactic.) If I were scum and I knew VE and Erandorr were town masons why wouldn't I just privately tell my team instead of posting to the thread?
Its also not my entire case if you had read what I wrote
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On August 04 2012 20:44 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 20:42 Toadesstern wrote:
It's kinda hard to fogure out what you're talking about when talking about Erandorr all the time and him being stupid without knowing what you're talkinga bout.
Just saying. in PMs. also, think about this: Erandor's entire case against me hinges on me publicly outting mafia masons (as a scum tactic.) If I were scum and I knew VE and Erandorr were town masons why wouldn't I just privately tell my team instead of posting to the thread?
because outing masons, no matter of alignment will make you a topic in the discussion.
You're not the guy who's scared of being in the light as mafia at all. You want to be in the light and manipulate people.
Outing both will probably be considered a bold move by most people who don't know you that well. Looking at the playerfield and the fact that mafia has 2KP while there are only VERY few people in this game who I'd consider to be vets I'd say it looks like a pretty good strategy for mafia and on top of that something mafia-Bugs would like to do.
Especially if there was talk about wether or not we should claim being masoned.
At the same time I don't think Town-WBG would do that. Your move did not bring VE in the spotlight, neither did it bring Eran in the spotlight.
Yeah Eran is a topic right now but that's because you and him are having a pissing contest.
The only one being in the spotlight because of your claim are you. I know how much you hate it when I do stuff like that as town and you tell me to shut up every time I do something like that. Now you're doing the same thing. I don't think Town-WBG would like something like that AT ALL.
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Not to mention that all this shit about how you want to bring masons into the spotlight is only working for yourself.
We're not getting anything about erans or VEs reactions and I'm pretty sure the majority of their reactions are within PM-land where you can read them, but noone else. This information is worth a damn if you're the only one being able to read it and keep telling us "well Eran and VE are town because of their reactions, trust me!".
This is the very thing you hated about me when I was a mason in my last game. I played like the game revolves around me and considering how much contra you're giving me on things like that I really think you'd be aware of a situation like that yourself.
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On August 04 2012 20:50 strongandbig wrote:
oh yeah and the answer to your bolded question at the end of your last post is:
1. because VE is good enough to breadcrumb who he masons, and you publicly announcing it gives you cover to kill him without revealing that you're scum. (ie, if you just killed him we would look through his filter, find his breadcrumb, and kill you.)
2. For the same reason you want us to be talking about grush and killing him for his first post not being good: to leave town in a state of disorganized confusion.
1. I could out him as my buddy after I killed him if I was scum. In fact that's what any townie would do in the case that the guy who masoned him died. It's completely indistinguishable regardless of alignment.
Your argument falls apart when you realize that Occam's Razor favors my side over yours. Your argument is convoluted as shit. It involves breadcrumbs when it doesn't need to. If you have to resort to that kind of argument then clearly you're stretching.
2. Killing grush doesn't disorganize town, it gets rid of some guy who's going to do nothing but troll anyway. Since his mafia meta is to troll, clearly you kill two birds with one stone.
On August 04 2012 20:48 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 19:56 wherebugsgo wrote:On August 04 2012 18:51 strongandbig wrote:man bugs you can do better than this. what, did you forget that VE and I were in wheel of fortune too? Ace's Scum 101: get town to lynch people for being bad rather than for being scum. I mean, I may be bad but I'm not stupid. On August 04 2012 17:47 wherebugsgo wrote:
also no, obviously I think all the other lynch candidates are inferior.
Why should we resort to trusting a vig to shoot grush? How do we even know if we have a vig? This sort of stuff really pisses me off, because it delays the inevitable. On August 04 2012 09:00 wherebugsgo wrote:
Your basic assumption that outing masons in this game is antitown is flawed. I already pointed that out when...oh, I dunno, I called you bad several times for thinking it.
If you out masons then you pressure them. Zephirdd was 100% correct on why I did it (and if he's scum that was a pretty brilliant play by him). The goal is to distinguish the town masons from the scum masons via their handing of the pressure.
Also it has the side effect of scaring mafia masons into potentially not using their roles if they fear they will instantly be outted and put in a small pool of players for scrutiny. Playing like Ace only works when you're Ace and always play like Ace. On August 03 2012 20:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
1. Being a mason isn't alignment indicative (therefore outting a mason is rather worthless)
Town wbg would realize that this logic is terrible. Town wbg wouldn't give multiple different explanations for outing masons on day 1 without discussing it with them and without participating with the town discussion of whether masons should claim. (for reference, those explanations were "because VE and I are good and this way medics might medic us", and "to pressure the masons") Town wbg wouldn't try to lead a lynch on a bad player just for being bad, without making a case, etc. This isn't town wbg. ##vote: wherebugsgo Number 1: I did not give multiple explanations for outting the masons. I gave one. I don't see how you asserting that I gave multiple explanations is an indication that I did. Yeah you did. First you said it was so mafia would have to wifom over whether to shoot you and VE, then you said it was to pressure VE.
These aren't two different explanations. It's ONE explanation with THREE parts (one which you missed, btw.) It would be suspicious if I went back and said "no that's not what I meant, I meant THIS" because then I would be flip flopping. Having multiple reasons for something being good is simply an indication of it being...well, good. You can argue semantics but from a scumhunting perspective it only matters if your target changed his explanation. If the explanation hasn't changed then there's nothing wrong.
So, for clarity's sake (in other words, for you jubjubs
1. Outting the masons pressures them. My number one goal was to distinguish town and scum masons. Pressuring them is the fastest way to do that.
2. If the mason is indeed town then it gives medics a good target to protect (particularly VE if he is town; he can play well as town, although as of late I think he's been sucking) which means mafia are wary of shooting them. They can take a chance of doublestack, both bad for them.
3. Lastly if the mason is town then it discourages mafia masons from using their power in fear of being publicly outted and scrutinized among a small pool of players. Sucks to be in the spotlight as scum.
On August 04 2012 20:48 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 20:48 strongandbig wrote:On August 04 2012 18:51 strongandbig wrote:man bugs you can do better than this. what, did you forget that VE and I were in wheel of fortune too? Ace's Scum 101: get town to lynch people for being bad rather than for being scum. I mean, I may be bad but I'm not stupid. On August 04 2012 17:47 wherebugsgo wrote:
also no, obviously I think all the other lynch candidates are inferior.
Why should we resort to trusting a vig to shoot grush? How do we even know if we have a vig? This sort of stuff really pisses me off, because it delays the inevitable. On August 04 2012 09:00 wherebugsgo wrote:
Your basic assumption that outing masons in this game is antitown is flawed. I already pointed that out when...oh, I dunno, I called you bad several times for thinking it.
If you out masons then you pressure them. Zephirdd was 100% correct on why I did it (and if he's scum that was a pretty brilliant play by him). The goal is to distinguish the town masons from the scum masons via their handing of the pressure.
Also it has the side effect of scaring mafia masons into potentially not using their roles if they fear they will instantly be outted and put in a small pool of players for scrutiny. Playing like Ace only works when you're Ace and always play like Ace. On August 03 2012 20:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
1. Being a mason isn't alignment indicative (therefore outting a mason is rather worthless)
Town wbg would realize that this logic is terrible. Town wbg wouldn't give multiple different explanations for outing masons on day 1 without discussing it with them and without participating with the town discussion of whether masons should claim. (for reference, those explanations were "because VE and I are good and this way medics might medic us", and "to pressure the masons") Town wbg wouldn't try to lead a lynch on a bad player just for being bad, without making a case, etc. This isn't town wbg. ##vote: wherebugsgo Third, how is being a mason not being alignment indicative (a fucking fact of the setup) "terrible logic"? That's not the part that's wrong. The part that's wrong is "therefore outting a mason is rather worthless."
This is probably just you not understanding what I was saying because of my carelessness with the sentence.
Possessing the role of mason in this game says nothing about your alignment. Therefore, if I out someone as a mason it doesn't tell anyone anything about whether they are town or mafia (therefore the act itself is worthless in terms of determining their alignment.)
What is important, though, is their reaction to the pressure.
On August 04 2012 20:50 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 20:44 wherebugsgo wrote:On August 04 2012 20:42 Toadesstern wrote:
It's kinda hard to fogure out what you're talking about when talking about Erandorr all the time and him being stupid without knowing what you're talkinga bout.
Just saying. in PMs. also, think about this: Erandor's entire case against me hinges on me publicly outting mafia masons (as a scum tactic.) If I were scum and I knew VE and Erandorr were town masons why wouldn't I just privately tell my team instead of posting to the thread? Erandorr's case has jack shit to do with why I think you're scum. jackshit.
That's okay, since your thought process is just as bad and wrong as his.
Yeah well fuck you very much too. Seriously after how pissed you got at RoL for trolling bureaucracy mafia, and now you're trying to get us to think you're a self-voting pissed townie? I don't buy it. (also playing against wincon etcetera.)
Given how much you want to lynch me, then you should welcome the help.
No matter what I do, you're going to call me scum. That's a given, because you're using the worst logic I've ever seen to call me scum, and Erandorr in particular won't stop tunneling me. Thus, given my reputation as a scum player (in particular) I will always be a lynch candidate.
Is it playing against my wincondition? No, actually. If I'm always going to be a lynch candidate and if my lynch is going to take up all the discussion space then it's actually BENEFICIAL to town to kill me right here, right now. Why? Because then you can stop wasting time and lose hunt actual scum faster. Then you can also confirm me and my thoughts. Which, unlike yours, aren't terrible.
For the record both grush and prplhz are 95% scum to me.
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On August 04 2012 21:00 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 20:44 wherebugsgo wrote:On August 04 2012 20:42 Toadesstern wrote:
It's kinda hard to fogure out what you're talking about when talking about Erandorr all the time and him being stupid without knowing what you're talkinga bout.
Just saying. in PMs. also, think about this: Erandor's entire case against me hinges on me publicly outting mafia masons (as a scum tactic.) If I were scum and I knew VE and Erandorr were town masons why wouldn't I just privately tell my team instead of posting to the thread? because outing masons, no matter of alignment will make you a topic in the discussion. You're not the guy who's scared of being in the light as mafia at all. You want to be in the light and manipulate people. Outing both will probably be considered a bold move by most people who don't know you that well. Looking at the playerfield and the fact that mafia has 2KP while there are only VERY few people in this game who I'd consider to be vets I'd say it looks like a pretty good strategy for mafia and on top of that something mafia-Bugs would like to do. Especially if there was talk about wether or not we should claim being masoned. At the same time I don't think Town-WBG would do that. Your move did not bring VE in the spotlight, neither did it bring Eran in the spotlight. Yeah Eran is a topic right now but that's because you and him are having a pissing contest. The only one being in the spotlight because of your claim are you. I know how much you hate it when I do stuff like that as town and you tell me to shut up every time I do something like that. Now you're doing the same thing. I don't think Town-WBG would like something like that AT ALL.
I'm in the spotlight because Erandor is bad at this game. It's not because I wanted to be.
I wanted to make my reads in peace but Erandorr decided to bring all the baddies out to call me scum. So, I'm forced to defend myself.
If I lurk away I get lynched. If I defend myself I get lynched.
Why? Because of fucking confirmation bias.
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On August 04 2012 21:14 wherebugsgo wrote:
Given how much you want to lynch me, then you should welcome the help.
No matter what I do, you're going to call me scum. That's a given, because you're using the worst logic I've ever seen to call me scum, and Erandorr in particular won't stop tunneling me. Thus, given my reputation as a scum player (in particular) I will always be a lynch candidate.
Is it playing against my wincondition? No, actually. If I'm always going to be a lynch candidate and if my lynch is going to take up all the discussion space then it's actually BENEFICIAL to town to kill me right here, right now. Why? Because then you can stop wasting time and lose hunt actual scum faster. Then you can also confirm me and my thoughts. Which, unlike yours, aren't terrible.
For the record both grush and prplhz are 95% scum to me.
- How do I "want to lynch you" so much? I don't want to lynch you if you're town, it's just that your play makes me think you're scum.
- I assume when you say you're "always going to be a lynch candidate" then you mean in this game in particular, because you certainly aren't "always a lynch candidate" "because of your rep as a good scum player" in games of yours that I've observed. If so, then you have to recognize that you have brought it on yourself by your weird-ass scummy-ass play, and rather than get pissed about it you should be trying to persuade us that you're town.
Given the way you posted the first 24-30 hours of this game that's quite a task.
Also let me say this - I don't find your explanations of your reasons for outing the masons, especially VE, compe lling. I don't yosee what "pressure" you put VE under, unless you meant "do something weird/unexpected to VE and see if he blows his lid." Like, VE posted about you revealing him maybe once, when he said he was yelling at you in PMs.
- And yeah, no I don't think "dying to free up discussion space" is a good idea for a townie, and I don't think you believe that either.
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On August 04 2012 21:14 wherebugsgo wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 04 2012 20:50 strongandbig wrote:
oh yeah and the answer to your bolded question at the end of your last post is:
1. because VE is good enough to breadcrumb who he masons, and you publicly announcing it gives you cover to kill him without revealing that you're scum. (ie, if you just killed him we would look through his filter, find his breadcrumb, and kill you.)
2. For the same reason you want us to be talking about grush and killing him for his first post not being good: to leave town in a state of disorganized confusion. 1. I could out him as my buddy after I killed him if I was scum. In fact that's what any townie would do in the case that the guy who masoned him died. It's completely indistinguishable regardless of alignment. Your argument falls apart when you realize that Occam's Razor favors my side over yours. Your argument is convoluted as shit. It involves breadcrumbs when it doesn't need to. If you have to resort to that kind of argument then clearly you're stretching. 2. Killing grush doesn't disorganize town, it gets rid of some guy who's going to do nothing but troll anyway. Since his mafia meta is to troll, clearly you kill two birds with one stone. On August 04 2012 20:48 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 19:56 wherebugsgo wrote:On August 04 2012 18:51 strongandbig wrote:man bugs you can do better than this. what, did you forget that VE and I were in wheel of fortune too? Ace's Scum 101: get town to lynch people for being bad rather than for being scum. I mean, I may be bad but I'm not stupid. On August 04 2012 17:47 wherebugsgo wrote:
also no, obviously I think all the other lynch candidates are inferior.
Why should we resort to trusting a vig to shoot grush? How do we even know if we have a vig? This sort of stuff really pisses me off, because it delays the inevitable. On August 04 2012 09:00 wherebugsgo wrote:
Your basic assumption that outing masons in this game is antitown is flawed. I already pointed that out when...oh, I dunno, I called you bad several times for thinking it.
If you out masons then you pressure them. Zephirdd was 100% correct on why I did it (and if he's scum that was a pretty brilliant play by him). The goal is to distinguish the town masons from the scum masons via their handing of the pressure.
Also it has the side effect of scaring mafia masons into potentially not using their roles if they fear they will instantly be outted and put in a small pool of players for scrutiny. Playing like Ace only works when you're Ace and always play like Ace. On August 03 2012 20:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
1. Being a mason isn't alignment indicative (therefore outting a mason is rather worthless)
Town wbg would realize that this logic is terrible. Town wbg wouldn't give multiple different explanations for outing masons on day 1 without discussing it with them and without participating with the town discussion of whether masons should claim. (for reference, those explanations were "because VE and I are good and this way medics might medic us", and "to pressure the masons") Town wbg wouldn't try to lead a lynch on a bad player just for being bad, without making a case, etc. This isn't town wbg. ##vote: wherebugsgo Number 1: I did not give multiple explanations for outting the masons. I gave one. I don't see how you asserting that I gave multiple explanations is an indication that I did. Yeah you did. First you said it was so mafia would have to wifom over whether to shoot you and VE, then you said it was to pressure VE. These aren't two different explanations. It's ONE explanation with THREE parts (one which you missed, btw.) It would be suspicious if I went back and said "no that's not what I meant, I meant THIS" because then I would be flip flopping. Having multiple reasons for something being good is simply an indication of it being...well, good. You can argue semantics but from a scumhunting perspective it only matters if your target changed his explanation. If the explanation hasn't changed then there's nothing wrong. So, for clarity's sake (in other words, for you jubjubs 1. Outting the masons pressures them. My number one goal was to distinguish town and scum masons. Pressuring them is the fastest way to do that. 2. If the mason is indeed town then it gives medics a good target to protect (particularly VE if he is town; he can play well as town, although as of late I think he's been sucking) which means mafia are wary of shooting them. They can take a chance of doublestack, both bad for them. 3. Lastly if the mason is town then it discourages mafia masons from using their power in fear of being publicly outted and scrutinized among a small pool of players. Sucks to be in the spotlight as scum. On August 04 2012 20:48 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 20:48 strongandbig wrote:On August 04 2012 18:51 strongandbig wrote:man bugs you can do better than this. what, did you forget that VE and I were in wheel of fortune too? Ace's Scum 101: get town to lynch people for being bad rather than for being scum. I mean, I may be bad but I'm not stupid. On August 04 2012 17:47 wherebugsgo wrote:
also no, obviously I think all the other lynch candidates are inferior.
Why should we resort to trusting a vig to shoot grush? How do we even know if we have a vig? This sort of stuff really pisses me off, because it delays the inevitable. On August 04 2012 09:00 wherebugsgo wrote:
Your basic assumption that outing masons in this game is antitown is flawed. I already pointed that out when...oh, I dunno, I called you bad several times for thinking it.
If you out masons then you pressure them. Zephirdd was 100% correct on why I did it (and if he's scum that was a pretty brilliant play by him). The goal is to distinguish the town masons from the scum masons via their handing of the pressure.
Also it has the side effect of scaring mafia masons into potentially not using their roles if they fear they will instantly be outted and put in a small pool of players for scrutiny. Playing like Ace only works when you're Ace and always play like Ace. On August 03 2012 20:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
1. Being a mason isn't alignment indicative (therefore outting a mason is rather worthless)
Town wbg would realize that this logic is terrible. Town wbg wouldn't give multiple different explanations for outing masons on day 1 without discussing it with them and without participating with the town discussion of whether masons should claim. (for reference, those explanations were "because VE and I are good and this way medics might medic us", and "to pressure the masons") Town wbg wouldn't try to lead a lynch on a bad player just for being bad, without making a case, etc. This isn't town wbg. ##vote: wherebugsgo Third, how is being a mason not being alignment indicative (a fucking fact of the setup) "terrible logic"? That's not the part that's wrong. The part that's wrong is "therefore outting a mason is rather worthless." This is probably just you not understanding what I was saying because of my carelessness with the sentence. Possessing the role of mason in this game says nothing about your alignment. Therefore, if I out someone as a mason it doesn't tell anyone anything about whether they are town or mafia (therefore the act itself is worthless in terms of determining their alignment.) What is important, though, is their reaction to the pressure.On August 04 2012 20:50 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 20:44 wherebugsgo wrote:On August 04 2012 20:42 Toadesstern wrote:
It's kinda hard to fogure out what you're talking about when talking about Erandorr all the time and him being stupid without knowing what you're talkinga bout.
Just saying. in PMs. also, think about this: Erandor's entire case against me hinges on me publicly outting mafia masons (as a scum tactic.) If I were scum and I knew VE and Erandorr were town masons why wouldn't I just privately tell my team instead of posting to the thread? Erandorr's case has jack shit to do with why I think you're scum. jackshit. That's okay, since your thought process is just as bad and wrong as his. Yeah well fuck you very much too. Seriously after how pissed you got at RoL for trolling bureaucracy mafia, and now you're trying to get us to think you're a self-voting pissed townie? I don't buy it. (also playing against wincon etcetera.) Given how much you want to lynch me, then you should welcome the help. No matter what I do, you're going to call me scum. That's a given, because you're using the worst logic I've ever seen to call me scum, and Erandorr in particular won't stop tunneling me. Thus, given my reputation as a scum player (in particular) I will always be a lynch candidate. Is it playing against my wincondition? No, actually. If I'm always going to be a lynch candidate and if my lynch is going to take up all the discussion space then it's actually BENEFICIAL to town to kill me right here, right now. Why? Because then you can stop wasting time and lose hunt actual scum faster. Then you can also confirm me and my thoughts. Which, unlike yours, aren't terrible. For the record both grush and prplhz are 95% scum to me.
I'm just reading really quick because I'm about to go and get me something to eat but if that's the case why are you pushing grush instead of prplhz?
I asked about the vets for a reason. I know not every host balances into new guys / medium guys / vet guys but some do.
Given what you said so far you should really want to lynch into the vet group.
You think Eran is town
You think VE is town
You know you are town, if you really are
That's already 3 vets who got a townie-sticker in your notes. So even if you had no clue about who is mafia process of elimination is already giving you huge advantages here and I was quite surprised to see you're not pushing for prplhz or me the moment you said Eran and VE are town according to your reads.
Instead you're going for the guy who has to be mafia because of his very first post.
Keeping in mind that grush is not belonging to the VET-group and either belongs to the newbie or the medium group and both groups being way more massive, I have a hard time understanding why you're pushing grush based on that one post instead of prplhz.
Even if you don't care about balance, after all there are hosts who don't balance like that, I don't get why you're pushing grush instead of prplhz.
Grush is some random dude who's not that good at playing mafia. At least I wouldn't hold him accountable on his performance.
Prplhz on the other hand is. Sure he's not foolishness but he's way more "stable" than some random dude and what he does may or may not be good but he does it for a reason, while trying to understand someone of Grush's caliber is always a little like spinning a wheel to see what's going to happen.
I don't get why you would want to push Grush in the situation at all, unless of course the reasoning is "we lynch bad players for being bad". That's horrible enough if you do that, but if you're doing that with guys who aren't even considered to be good at all that's even worse.
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Oh lol I love doing this
On May 07 2012 07:24 wherebugsgo wrote:
I'll give you some examples: from my past games, the only times I have trolled for extended periods of time with no real change in play were when I was scum. All the other times, if I have ever trolled/brought attention to myself it was either a gambit or out of exasperation with the game. Since then I've realized that gambiting is to be used rarely and that it often doesn't work as town. Voting yourself, for example, is a stupid way to establish yourself as town because anyone can do it (any scum with balls will do it) and it doesn't reveal anything about your alignment. It doesn't further discussion; it in fact impedes it, and it doesn't help find scum; it goes against it.
Examples:
In LoTR I pretended to only be interested in the ring for the first 24 hours of the day. In the second half of the day I basically attacked anyone who unreasonably focused on me solely because of that. My target of the day was DrH, who ended up being mafia godfather (and I was shot n1). I was town.
In Storm I was mafia and saw that if I was loud enough, and because town was not playing well, I could just scream and yell and troll all I wanted about players' misplays that I could get any lynch I wanted. In that game I would estimate over half my posts were either useless one liners or gifs/jokes/troll posts. Yet, my team managed to get 3 lynches straight on townies; what does that tell you? I was under a lot of attention the entire time as well, because my play was borderline suicidal. Town caught on after lynching my scumbuddy (and even early game because of my disruption I was suspected) That game taught me that playing in that manner may be good if you want to gather the sheep, but often they'll only be willing to go for other disruptive people. For the most part that means they'll kill the loudest townies for a few days before realizing the error in their ways.
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No, go fuck yourselves, all of you who think I'm scum. You're suffering from the worst case of confirmation bias I've ever seen. I've already shown how no matter what I'll do, you'll call me scum for it, when everything I've done has a 100% valid PROTOWN explanation.
In fact it's so rampant that all three of you are using town traits to call me scum. That's almost the definition of confirmation bias. You think I'm scum, so even things that should normally indicate town to you somehow magically indicate that I am scum. Things like the mason outting, the multifaceted explanation, the fact that I have a stronger read on grush than prplhz, the spotlight argument (here's a revelation: I'm not omniscient nor clairvoyant): ALL of these arguments point to me being town. Yet, the three of you have used these arguments to call me scum.
Just kill me now so that I can be confirmed and so I don't have to waste my time anymore. I've had enough and quite honestly I'm very very close to just getting myself modkilled and taking a ban.
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How the flying fuck am I trolling?
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On August 04 2012 21:55 wherebugsgo wrote:
How the flying fuck am I trolling?
How the fuck are you doing everything else you gave as analysis of your scum play?
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EBWOP and what you consider bad town play
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Also you clearly fail at reading comprehension. Everything I said there is still true.
I'm voting myself to get myself killed, not try to convince any of you that I am town. I amposting because I'm raging at how bad these arguments are. Me voting myself indeed says nothing about my alignment. However there already exist dozens of things that only say "WBG IS FUCKING TOWN".
If I actually die though the person who benefits the most is me. Town will benefit if they stop listening to these idiots when I'm gone and scum will benefit if town continues to be retarded.
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wbg, when are your finals?
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EPT
