EPTIsn't there a list of possible setups?
Newbie Mini Mafia XVIII
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Vivax
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Isn't there a list of possible setups? | ||
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I'll give you my opinion on this policy from my experience as scum the previous game. Mafia doesn't have to lie without very specific reasons like claims. You will be able to find contradictions and mistakes in townie play aswell, I found plenty of them and used them to make cases against townies. But when a weird townie guy claimed DT for no reason and claimed one of ours to be scum, mafia had to counterclaim and openly lie, which bit our team in the arse within a few hours.
What we don't want of policy talk is: People starting to discuss whether it's good or bad in a way that you end up having one page of policy discussion. What we want is: People saying yes/no to certain policies AND BEING SURE OF THEMSELVES, then giving reasons for their attitude. And then we want others not starting to pick on the points the people wrote, but posting their own!That way town will have a quick overview of general consensus about policies, have them out of the way for the following days, and can start scumhunting for real without wasting further time on policy talk. We have to restrict scum's options regarding policies, cases, activity. They have to take responsibility for what they write. What we don't want is: People who start writing cases on others who already are in the center of attention. This is a great opportunity for scum to blend in. This is where bussing happens when the real scum can't escape that center of attention. To find mafiavibes, try to look at posts from a point of view where you have almost all the information. tl;dr: Pro lynch all lurkers, against lynch all liars, not gonna throw around FoS like crazy at the start of the game, townies react to that with quick OMGUS, since they know of their own alignment and feel threatened unjustly (mafia can act the same if they are experienced I guess). Try to post cases on people who aren't in trouble aswell. Don't give mafia that chance to blend in. | ||
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On June 25 2012 20:23 Esspen wrote: But I believe we should try to identify and lynch blues first, confusing mafia and leaving them vulnerable... Wat  You crazy? | ||
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I think the focus has to switch to the less active posters (NrGmonk, AegonC, roflwaffle55y, Esspen). Consider the amount of content, not just the amount of posts. I'll give you my opinions regarding the lurkers, I hope it's gonna help you in making a decision on which one to lynch. If someone of the would-be-modkilled lurkers just posts and votes shortly before the lynch without a damn good reason to do so, we should obviously lynch him. I think it's good to have a consensus on this alternative, I would appreciate if townies expressed their approval if they agree with this. NrGMonk: Gonna vote for him if he posts right before deadline to escape the modkill. AegonC: Doesn't offer any reads with his generic minipost. His priority is next to NrG's. Esspen: Kinda weird posts. He posts first when it's about discussing the lynch all liars policy. What strikes me here is that he questions the policy, but concludes the post with his line about lynching blues and confusing scum. That might have been a slip.His next post says it was intentional, and he immediately uses that explanation to put his FoS on Release. He never took a hard stance during this, he never tried to post a case on Release when he had reason to. And then he completely forgets Release in his last post, to 'completely agree' with Keirathi and hopeless1der about the lurker lynch policy. Saying that he would be a too obvious mafia isn't a valid defense for me either, mafia can be obvious if the players make mistakes, and I still don't buy above blue role lynch mistake as intentional. It might have been, but that'd be very risky play by a townie. roflwaffle55: He comments on policy (lynch > NL), doesn't like Release style of posting, promises more contribution after sleeping. Him commenting negatively on Release very early looks townie to me. I wouldn't vote for him instead of the other three as of now. | ||
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According to BassInSpace, roflwaffle55 bandwagoned with the Release criticism. I took a look at his post again, and it's true. It's a very soft criticism too. Actually a mistake by me in calling it an early post. There were FoS on Release out already at that point when rofl made his first post. With this, I have no reason to believe he might be town yet. I still find Esspen's behavior to be strange, and I wouldn't be able to choose between him and rofl decisively yet. Esspen on the other hand posted more, but has one potential slip. Since NrG announced himself and two of the lurkers are hard to choose from, I'll simply place my vote on AegonC and await further developments/good posts. | ||
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Esspen follows Hopeless1der with a case. I think initially it was good by Hopeless to get BioSC out of his cover, but I'm not liking the followup. Points of accusation against Bio are the lurking and the lack of content in his posts before he had to defend. He sure should be subject to discussion and I am not sure what to think of him yet. He has yet to post some reads. But just skipping over his defense that he stopped lurking isn't ok imo. You are just giving other lurkers more options to keep lurking if you only have 1 target you're still accusing for lurking after he unlurked. I would rather like Bio posting good cases to prove that he's valuable to town rather than having him defend himself when he already did. | ||
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On June 27 2012 04:27 Hopeless1der wrote: Its also a plurality lynch: Whoever has the most votes in a given day gets lynched. Does not require majority. This also means that I am currently on the chopping block. Keep an eye out for bandwagoners. I'm highlighting this for the guys who say they vote for the majority cause they fear No lynch (hey, Esspen). No Lynch isn't possible here, you will only vote for the ones you truly believe to be mafia, and not try to hide behind the majority. If you do vote hiding behind a majority, it will come back to haunt you cause it's scummy. | ||
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We had policy lynch discussion just at the beginning of the game where the general consensus seemed to be lynch all lurkers. I have yet to see one guy who says that we should lynch lurkers in absence of clear scumtells. And yet there are people voting for all sorts of people except for AegonC, the biggest lurker (looks like there's gonna be lots to be replaced tho). Did I miss any decisive scumtells out there? | ||
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I might try to switch the vote to roflwaffles at this point, but to be honest I don't know what the right choice would be atm. I'll go by guts feeling and vote rofl tho. That's what I initally wanted: Get rid of a lurker, and hopeless doesn't look scummy enough to me. | ||
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On June 27 2012 09:00 Hopeless1der wrote: Man...and esspen just finished saying he felt he shouldn't vote for me. Yeah, Esspen's posts remind me a little of a certain guy in my last game. A bit confused and full of holes. | ||
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If one of them is scum, the other most likely is, too. With the current information available, I would go for one of them. Also remember that posting cases during the night can make you a target for scum. Speaking of it, I think I'm the designed nightkill simply cause noone suspected me yet. Townies who are believed to be townies are dangerous for scum, and I didn't see any blue role vibes for them to use yet, so they don't have many alternatives. | ||
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Didn't see any happen yet since that low activity start. | ||
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On June 27 2012 23:47 Release wrote: So myself, rofles, and bio? (for clarification) I think the self-pity attitude is silly. Strong cases make you the target for scum. gtg. What self-pity attitude?Just writing what I think. And I think I am a clean target for scum, if Esspen and rofl aren't. If they are, killing me might cause a pretty sure lynch of one of them (assuming town is rational). But even if I don't die, I'll still be pushing for a lynch of these two based on the information we got so far. I'm actually not suspecting you, Release, cause you still have your style that makes it hard to play scum, although you seem to be busy cause of studies. You have been targetted hard at the beginning for that style and now went for a less aggressive one. If you are scum, the metagame forces you to play like that, but once you manage to survive the beginning, you may change your style, so I can't believe you to be 100 % townie. Atm I would vote for roflwaffle55 or Esspen. I'm not sure about Bio, but it seems to be untypical for scum to push cases like that. I don't like his initial posts for lack of content though. He started becoming very active once suspected by hopeless. I won't give him an absolution yet. I have quite a list of people I believe to be townie, but I prefer to keep it to myself during this night and focus on those I believe to be scum. | ||
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If we kill Esspen and he is townie, then JingleHell can be anything. If we kill Jinglehell and he is scum, then Esspen is either scum or a misled townie with confusing playstyle. If we kill Jinglehell and he is town, then Esspen probably isn't scum cause scum would have known Jinglehell (roflwaffle55) was town, and wouldn't have had to vote like that. I still find these options to be risky overall, so I went on with looking at other information: Let's have a look at the nightkill, scum has to be sloppy to use it to kill people suspecting them openly. They would rather use nightkills to cast suspicion upon others. However, in this case, Release had a lot of interesting interactions at the start: -He was the first to suspect Hopeless1der -dNa was the first to suspect Release -immediately after, Keirathi put his FoS on him aswell based on the same argument dNa used (using votes so early isn't good, they said.) + Show Spoiler + Ok, I got suspicious about Keirathi here, so I had a quick look at his filter, and -Keirathi tried to put doubt on the most active townie soon and only after another one did. -He doesn't post anything suspicious about Release on his own, instead he tries to encourage more policy discussion. When he's done with that, he suddenly drops his Release FoS cause 'he's putting himself too much into the limelight for a townie'. After dropping the FoS, he immediately follows other townies into the attention switch onto Esspen. Keirathi: Bandwagony, really weak contributions, tries to blend in, keeps activity to a minimum. - JieXian posted a case against Release. - After the lynch, Release called out BioSC for his criticism of high activity. No real threat for Bio here yet. Then, he got killed. I'd like to hear some more regarding Release's death and especially Keirathi. Latter has a very passive, safe playstyle, the mafiavibes are strong with this one. FoS: Keirathi | ||
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But I prefer a Keirathi lynch cause of the scummy behavior and the low attention on him right now. | ||
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I still am insecure regarding you and Esspen I still find these options to be risky overall After all you just entered the game, so I went on with scumhunting, and Keirathi is on the list for scummy behavior right now. You aren't ony my list cause of OMGUS, i suspected roflwaffle55/you before you even posted against me. | ||
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On June 28 2012 00:25 JieXian wrote: No. It was between roffles and Hopeless. You weren't on the chopping block at all. If roffles was scum and Esspen saved him at the last moment -> Esspen = scum. Simple right? JieXian, you posted this earlier. Don't you support the gain of information from a lynch of either Esspen or the roflewaffle55 replacement? Right now two are pushing a case against me, one of them might be scum, and you prefer to suspect Bio. While I don't trust Bio entirely cause of Release's connection to him and his following death, it would be nice if town could focus and handle single cases instead of making so many at once, and atm my case and the Esspen vs rofl one are unsolved and need feedback. | ||
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Still, you understand my point regarding the two I would lynch for information, as proven by my above post, and you skip it to put a FoS and a vote other than your FoS a few minutes later. Note, I still have to post my complete defense, and I still need to hear more people's opinions before doing so. | ||
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Makes me a sad panda. Jingle, there is a difference between a town suspecting lots of different people at once (what I actually wrote and claimed to be bad) and a townie having multiple targets at once (what I am doing). What I'm saying is that town should be able to reach conclusions on single players, not that each townie should just focus on one. There are 3 mafia, and what you are doing at the moment is either having really bad reads and tunneling me blindly, or you are scum trying to evade that lynch I'm proposing by attacking me directly. You completely ignored Esspens weird posts, and from a townie perspective, lynching either you or him would bring a lot of clarity into the game. His behavior is incredibly suspicious, and yours is just bad. You never posted anything besides things against me, you are only able to take into consideration one player in the whole game, and that makes you either really bad as townie or really scummy. If you are townie, start reading from the first post on. If you are scum, then keep posting, but what I still have to post will send you to a grave. And I'm keeping that for myself until it's gonna be really effective. | ||
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On June 28 2012 20:41 Vivax wrote: If we kill Esspen and he is scum, then JingleHell most likely is scum, too. (For being protected by Esspen against his own beliefs) If we kill Esspen and he is townie, then JingleHell can be anything. If we kill Jinglehell and he is scum, then Esspen is either scum or a misled townie with confusing playstyle. If we kill Jinglehell and he is town, then Esspen probably isn't scum cause scum would have known Jinglehell (roflwaffle55) was town, and wouldn't have had to vote like that. And don't forget that my main target is Keirathi cause of his mafiavibes. You're putting words into my mouth saying that I prefer a policy lynch to a scumminess lynch, Jingle. The post I'm quoting myself from proves it, too. | ||
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On June 27 2012 08:14 Esspen wrote: There are cases, but those cases are not going to be lynched anyway as now it's either Hopeless or Rofl. I unfortunately cannot vote for Hopeless as only thing he's done is gone maybe too far with attacking you, otherwise I completely agree with him. 40 minutes later: On June 27 2012 08:53 Esspen wrote: ##Vote Hopeless1der You said you voted cause Bio posted a case. On June 28 2012 21:57 Esspen wrote: I'm terribly sorry for lurking, for some reason I thought we could not post during the night (based on what I read here: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Night ), and the day started for me at 2 am when I was already asleep. My defence is that I'm not mafia. And I voted for Hopeless in the end because I've read all BioSC's case against him few minutes before voting and decided to vote for him, and in the worst case that he was townie I would just press against BioSC even more (which I'm going to do as of now). Plus I'm good soul and like saving people. Your defence is that...You are not mafia...Thumbs up. Why do you even suspect Bio?Cause of a mislynch?They can happen especially at the start of the game. I saw a OMGUS match between Bio and hopeless turning worse for hopeless, but that doesn't mean Bio is scum. With this post you actually are admitting to have bandwagoned. You made your vote in the very last as a lurking player. You're telling me you voted for him cause you ate the case of the guy you're FoSing now (Bio). Why exactly would you FoS him only after that mislynch YOU provoked? If you felt the case by Bio against hopeless was solid, why do you all of sudden try so hard to distance yourself from it and blame Bio for that mislynch? It is your fault only that hopeless got lynched, stop blaming Bio for it, he posted the case, you decided to kill him. Now that I want you and/or the guy you covered with your vote (roflwaffle55) dead, you both try pretty hard to get me lynched. | ||
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If you think you are a good townie, then you should have found it already. At least now town will know that there is at least one scum jumping on the bandwagon against me, and scum might even have started it. | ||
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Miltonkram wrote My plan is we lynch Vivax today, BioSC tomorrow, and dNa the next, though I really don't care about the order. Any takers? I'll give you my taker, none of them are scum in my book.dNa not jumping on the bandwagon against me and focusing on the really suspicious guy with numerous slips made me sure of his townie status. I had huge insecurity about BioSC regarding that matter, but I looked extensively at his filter and he didn't look scummy enough for me. Mostly because of his agitation when random votes occurred. I doubt a real mafia would act like that if he saw townies throw around votes without real effect. Mafia would lean back, watch the lynch happen. Not start ranting about pointless votes. Miltonkram. Question 1: Did you get booted from the obs qt for being a replacement? This is also a question to the host. Saying my reads are wishy washy is super wrong. You can see the full reasoning behind the information lynch and what we gain from lynching either Jingle or Esspen. The best part is that your case consists of saying that we should lynch based on scumreads, not for information or lurking. Since I want to lynch for information or lukring, I am the only scumread in the game by your logic. The problem is that I never made my cases ignoring scumreads, there simply weren't any available besides from those concerning Esspen. This seems to be what you are thinking: Esspen suggests lynching blues, Esspen changes vote last minute after announcing he wouldn't vote for that, Esspen doesn't contribute anything useful to town, and instead of getting more active after his slips, he gets even more silent than he was during day 1. Still, he can't be scum. So do me a favor, Milton: Say it out loud that you ignore all these facts against Esspen, that I am scummy for suspecting him cause you claim that it's just for information and policy. And then say that killing him won't reveal us anything about Jingle's alignment, the guy covered last minute by Esspens vote. I'm not just lynching for policy. I'm lynching for scumtells of a lurking guy that will give us information about another one upon his death. Also, thank you for giving in to the pressure created by my delayed defense. Upon my eventual death you might be the first to land on the chopping block. By Milton I think he's waiting so that town doesn't have enough time to process his "huge reveal" and might knee-jerk a voteswitch off of him. I'm pretty sure you were also discussing this in the mafia qt haha. | ||
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I am inclined to believe BassInSpace to be townie. But he apologizes a lot for time zone differences. I don't know your rhythm and cannot estimate the time available to you for real. Many of his posts seem to be on-the-go, some have craploads of mistakes in them. I don't believe mafia would post carelessly like that. That said, I'll give you my list of potential mafia to be used in case I get lynched: Miltonkram, JingleHell, Esspen, Keirathi, NrGMonk | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + It's actually not that hard to guess + Show Spoiler + You just have to look at the guy I was suspecting from day 1 on + Show Spoiler + Since I was suspicious of him, and being the detective + Show Spoiler + I checked him and he returned scum Now decide if you would rather take the risk of lynching me or the guy who initiated all this bandwagon on me. It's sad however that noone suspected him besides me. | ||
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I suppose, Vivax, that on night 1, you checked every single individual who was going to make a case against you today, and everyone is scum, right? Lol what. I can only check one, and you know it. Also,there was no case against me on night 1. The cases started when I unfolded my suspect list, just that I wasn't sure of Esspen cause he covered you with his vote in the last minute, so I tried to breadcrumb it in a way that town would lynch one of you. Keirathi was simply the next one to suspect. There are still 2 other mafia besides you, and 4 people left to choose them from my list. Your behavior proves that you are scum, too. Something doesn't add up here, so I'm going to accuse you of a false roleclaim to get your head off the chopping block. If you knew you were townie, you could just stay cool now, since no matter who of us dies today, the other will die too the next day. That's a situation with a guaranteed -1 scum. | ||
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I've already given you all my clear arguments regarding JingleHell. And in a game where there are 3 mafia, he goes in for the replacement to only suspect one guy, namely the guy who on the other hand wants to lynch him. I've been tunneled mercilessly by this guy cause I was about to bring town on the right track to lynch him. There's probably a scum in here who tried to help him dilute my points against Jingle. Oh, and Esspen came back once I claimed, what a coincidence: On June 29 2012 23:28 Esspen wrote: There isl no chance he's detective, I'm ready to bet on my kidney. Why would he be accusing all the people he accused if he could focus on the one he knew to be the scum and make a good case on him. This seems like a very sad fake roleclaim. I'm making the case on him since the beginning of this fucking day, dude.And against you for covering him. | ||
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On June 29 2012 23:48 JingleHell wrote: Actually, the cases started BEFORE you unfolded your "suspect list", and I believe they helped shape it, as it's been changing constantly since. nope. I suspected the person you replaced to be mafia before night 1, and after night 1, I included Keirathi for his style aswell. You act as if I should just pursue one case at once like you do when there are three mafia. If I just breadcrumbed my post to suspect you, that would have made me look like I tunneled you for no reason since we didn't have much information from the guy you replaced at that point. Think I would have had success in getting town to lynch you with such a strat? It would only have worked if I claimed immediately, but I wasn't at danger and had no reason to. You aren't answering why you were more interested in lynching Keirathi than me until recently, when you theoretically knew I was scum, and only really had him for lurking. I wouldn't buy that with a coupon and someone else's money. Never been more interested in lynching him. I just found the reasons to add him to my list of suspects. I can place my FoS on multiple people at once. | ||
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But I prefer a Keirathi lynch cause of the scummy behavior and the low attention on him right now. Has anyone seen Keirathi posting in this day? Well he has no reason to, since most of town has never pressured him the slightiest. That was the whole purpose of lynch all lurkers: Don't let them lurk. Yet they were able to keep lurking cause someone here stirred up a case against me. The whole supposed scumslip by me was the fact that I suspected Jingle and Esspen and wanted to lynch them for information. That's what you build your post up on, and 4 lines: JingleHell's first post against me contains these accusations (actually they are lines) after he quotes me 4 times to inflate his post, bolded ones are my answers: 1.Note the levels of effort. It's almost like it should be a foregone conclusion who to target. I get criticized for effort. Ridiculous. 2.Pointing out a definition of scummy that suits his agenda of trying to get people targeted. If a last minute vote to protect a lurker against an active poster isn't scummy, then I don't know what definition for scummy you use.Also remember that I almost managed to save the first mislynched townie with my vote, why would I do that as mafia???[/b] 3.Again, targeting specific people based on a policy lynch that actually doesn't favor town very well in the current climate. It's not a policy lynch. I didn't target people day 2 just cause they were lurking, I analyzed their posts. 4.Calling out the scum, but absolutely no interest in him? It's like he wants to look above reproach. [b]Exactly which post of mine suggests that I have no interest in what I'm targetting?What kind of bad accuse is this? Aside from your ridiculous arguments in your first case against me, you seem to assume again that I would just blindly pursue you in front of the other townies cause you returned scum. You should know that I wouldn't have managed to get you lynched if I didn't claim. On June 30 2012 00:19 BassInSpace wrote: The DT can only make checks at night. That was still during day 1. What the heck are you talking about. I suspected the guy he replaced to be scum day, so I checked him night 1, and I knew for a fact that he was scum day 2. But people immediately jumped on a bandwagon created by him and others against me. Also, try to debunk this defense: Why the hell did I try to get roflwaffle55 lynched instead of a townie? How can scum do this? Why would scum try and stop a townie from getting lynched?Scum managed to get a townie lynched day 1, and I should be scum cause I tried to stop that from happening? Dude, please. Imagine if I were scum, had switched that vote successfully and hit the said-to-be townie roflwaffle55/JingleHell. I would have been instalynched day 2 for looking like I had protected hopeless from getting lynched. And for what then?He was town anyway. | ||
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What the heck are you talking about. I suspected the guy he replaced to be scum day 1, so I checked him night 1, and I knew for a fact that he was scum day 2. But people immediately jumped on a bandwagon created by him and others against me. | ||
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You don't understand. If you lynch the guy I'm accusing, you know if I spoke the truth and you still have the DT. If you lynch the DT, you know the guy he accused is scum, but you lost the DT. Why do you choose the worse option? Both give the same information, but one kills a blue role. | ||
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For 5 things I write 1 returns. | ||
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From even earlier in the day. You are changing your votes based on the person suspecting you to be lying. Prove it. I suspected roflwaffle55, the role behind him, before Jingle accused me. Keirathi never suspected me. Esspen never suspected me before I suspected him. This is also directed to Jingle for saying my case against him is OMGUS. It can't be OMGUS cause I made it before you even started with your 4 lines of proof that I am scum. I am surprised, Bio, you are going pretty much against common sense. You already managed to get Hopeless killed when I wanted to keep him alive since your case against him was weak, but townies listened to you, and scum helped you. Now you try to get me lynched instead of the real scum, if we nail Jingle, we will also have information about your alignment cause you also covered Jingle day 1 by pushing hopeless. If you kill me, you can hide saying you had no reason to believe I might be DT. And you fail to see that it's favorable to kill Jingle first, instead you kill DT's by a matter of principle to check if their claim was right. The amount of information gained should have precedence before your irrational principles. | ||
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On June 30 2012 02:50 JingleHell wrote: This statement literally only makes sense if you're not DT. How else could people hide behind that disbelief? Thank you for admitting you made up the case against me. Why? He's trying to get me killed cause he doesn't believe I'm the DT. Once I flip , he will exactly say that he didn't believe I was the DT and thus got me lynched. He will just admit to have made a mistake by not believing I'm the DT. He also was the main pusher against the first mislynched townie, and noone can blame him for that mistake, like noone could blaim him if you killed the DT now, that's me. That's what I say with that post: If you kill me, he will be able to wash off guilt, if you kill Jingle, it won't be so easy and you will still have a DT. Also notice how JingleHell is running out of options, his post become increasingly smaller. His last one revolves around one line he misunderstands. | ||
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Guess who made the case against the townie: BioSC. Who has been covered by letting town believe that case? roflwaffle55/ Jingle. Who went in for the kill?Esspen. If BioSC is so active now, then cause he'll be in the dirt once Jingle flips scum. | ||
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On June 30 2012 03:08 JingleHell wrote: I don't misunderstand it at all. If you get lynched and flip DT, anybody who refused to believe you will look like they jumped on your bandwagon to save me. Nobody in their right mind would hide scumminess behind scum behavior. Wait, so first you use that line of mine to say I admitted not to be the DT. Now you you use that line to say that it will make anyone look guilty who jumped on the bandwagon against me if I flip DT. I didn't say that anyone jumping on the bandwagon is guilty, in fact, the bandwagon is what protects scum cause they can share responsibility for what happened to the mislynched. You can't share responsibility that easy when you protected someone who flips scum, that's why BioSC will end up in deep if you get lynched and flip red, but he can minimize his responsibility if he kills me. | ||
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On June 30 2012 06:32 NrGmonk wrote: Who's the guy you suspected from day 1? You have FoS for both Esspen and Keirathi. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347651#19 I decided to lynch him right before the townie mislynch happened, but it was one minute too late, it even came before the mod's post. This is also my defense outside of the claim. As scum I would have no reason to do something this risky (if Jingle was town as most believe). I would cause a lynch of just another townie, would get blamed for saving hopeless in the literal last minute, and would have achieved nothing better than the mislynch of hopeless already was. If people actually thought this far, I wouldn't have had to roleclaim. | ||
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On June 30 2012 06:46 NrGmonk wrote: Also, if I'm understanding this right, Vivax pointed Keirathi as definite scum. But why did he vote for Jingle? Also, why is Keirathi also voting for Jingle if Vivax accused him of returning scum? Either Vivax is detective or not. I don't see a combination of roles which would make this make sense, unless something is really wrong. Sorry for the short posts btw. I'm/we're really short on time, and I really want to get quick responses. No, Jingle returned scum to the check, not Keirathi. Keirathi was lurking and playing passively and earned my FoS for it. I have already said that it would have been useless for me to attack Jingle alone at that point. Noone was willing enough to lynch him, so I emphasized the extra gain of information from lynching him over Esspen. @ Miltonkram Yeah, I should just have let Jingle get me lynched based off ridiculous claims. That would sure have been the better play from a DT. In my last game the medic got lynched day 1 and he didn't claim. It's stupid to not claim as blue when you're in danger of getting lynched. That I couldn't breadcrumb the results better is due to the fact that Jingle's countercase gained momentum much faster than mine. I had to go for the direct way. | ||
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Vivax
21976 Posts
I'm aware of this as well, that his vote switch didn't actually matter and it could very well have been planted "proof". I posted before the mod, and you really think mafia would try to ninja the mod post and risk being the next sure lynch if it fails when a mislynch is all you can wish for the moment, when you are scum and don't have to do anything except watching a townie getting killed? | ||
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Vivax
21976 Posts
If I bluff-protected him, then that means I didn't plan on lynching roflwaffle55/JingleHell at that moment. So how do you explain that I try to get him lynched afterwards? Why would I try to lynch the guy I didn't want to be lynched when I bluffed-vote him to gain cred? That would be pointless. And way too risky for a scum player when there's no need to do something like that, but I already mentioned this. And that is how I debunk this version of events where I voted so late to gain cred. | ||
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Vivax
21976 Posts
The host actually responded to this in the previous page. I have not been taking that into consideration all the time. I realize that this puts me in a bad spot. I would also understand if you voted for me now that you mentioned it, at least then I can finally lean back and post what I've prepared in case I get lynched. Let me just tell you one thing: whatever happens, from the kill of either of both of us there's gonna be much information to be gained. And I will be coming up with a huge post right before my death adressing that information, should i finally get lynched. | ||
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Vivax
21976 Posts
I wonder if the scum team feels comfortable now that I'm going to get lynched, I'll do my best to change that in less than an hour. | ||
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Vivax
21976 Posts
First of all, I'm not the DT, I'm Vanilla Townie. Since I knew that Jingle would succeed with his OMGUS case by getting so surprisingly quick backup, probably thanks to mafia, I decided to first delay my defense and see who would support a case against me, while I kept it passive until enough came out of their cover to post. My motive for lying: I really didn't want to just sit back and get lynched without fighting back, knowing I'm a townie and that I was getting tunneled based on weak claims by someone who I believed to be scum. The momentum on my case made me more suspicious of mafia trying to get me mislynched, and I think the arguments against me before the claim were really, really bad, those were the 4 lines of accuse by Jingle. Once he managed to create a bandwagon with that, I decided to fake claim and manage to get scum lynched. Enough of the justifications, here's the information I could get from this day and fake-claim story: First of all, my claim caused a lot of discomfort among scum, all (scum) players have posted in this matter (a real improvement compared to day1), and you have to consider that scum knew I am townie. So that leads to these different possibilities: - If mafia knew I was Vanilla townie and knew I was accusing another townie based on a false claim (cause a real DT wouldn't accuse a townie), the only alternative left for them was to believe that I checked the miller and truly was a DT. In this version (unless they assume miller got checked) mafia has to do nothing except bandwagoning and watch two townies get each other lynched. This didn't happen.Scum posted a lot during this day. - If Jingle was one of mafia and they really believed I was DT, then they wouldn't defend him/accuse me directly. They would bandwagon. - If mafia knew I wasn't DT cause either 1) JingleHell is actually a godfather and knows that he can't return scum cause of a check. 2) I have been checked by a mafia rolecop during the night. then all they have to do is get me lynched, show town that I wasn't DT and walk away unharmed. And I believe this last possibility to be what they are believing and trying. The other two options allow/force mafia to play way more passive. But once I saw the posts from every player coming up after my claim and case against Jingle, I knew that I hit a weak spot there, there was absolutely noone supporting my case against him, and that meant that scum 1) had no interest in lynching Jingle 2) felt the need to post cause I was threatening one of them. If this situation wasn't hot for scum, they wouldn't have posted and instead would have watched me kill a townie by using a fake roleclaim. Cause of this I felt I had a confirmation for Jingle's scum status. Then there is a person who I saw make scumslips (or roleslips). There are two options regarding this person: - It's either the DT knowing that I'm lying (thing I DON'T believe when looking at his post history and stances regarding me) - or it's mafia knowing that I'm lying. That person is BioSC, here are the mentioned slips: On June 30 2012 02:37 BioSC wrote: I don't trust anything. I've seen games where Vanilla Townies Claim Blue roles. Most of the time, they don't work. I'm going off the way he's playing. He didn't breadcrumb his check, he only tells us about it after he has a majority vote on himself, switching targets between you and Jingle... yeah. I don't believe he is blue at all. He actually knows what's up (he seems to know my role) and rather mentions that alternative instead of the option that I'm scum trying to evade the lynch. On June 30 2012 03:29 BioSC wrote: Right now, vivax is lying about being a DT. I know it. Does it sound like BioSC backs his knowledge with facts visible to townies? He's pretty sure of himself and would even take the risk of losing a DT for the sake of not lynching Jingle.That'd be nuts from a townie not knowing my role. Keirathi has been adressing the issue all the time. Imagine how much mafia has to lose if Jingle flips red. It will automatically cast suspicion on Milton, Esspen and Bio, and that's also the initial reason I wanted to lynch Jingle even BEFORE he was successful in starting the bandwagon against me. A jingle lynch would have revealed clues about many different alignments at that point, and it was the only clue I had back then. Then think about the confirmed townies gained with this: You think mafia would risk their neck by defending a lying townie? Nope. And that's why dNa, BassInSpace and Keirathi can't be mafia. Cause noone with scummy intentions would have attempted to defend me while I was lying. Cause If I got Jingle lynched and he flipped town, then I would have been in deep and the people defending me aswell. Why would scum stop a mislynch to happen in favor of another mislynch when both of them were equally good for mafia? Conclusion: the mafia is among these: Miltonkram, BioSC, JingleHell, Esspen, NrGMonk. I'm not entirely sure about JieXian, but Id prefer to not include him in the list as of now, I'd still keep an eye on him as townie. tl;dr: I almost fooled you all successfully cause I am so sure of Jingle being scum and cause I was set to be lynched and wanted to do some bold stunt. But what you know now is that the people NOT suspecting me can't be scum unless they are so sloppy to defend a townie they know is lying, and that scum's best option was to get me lynched. If they've been so active (the scum players), then cause I was threatening another scum player. If there weren't scum players threatened by a lynch, then the other two scum would have had the option to remain silent and neutral and let the townies kill each other. I hope this is gonna help town after the second mislynch/fail, sadly I didn't manage to stop the first in time. GG and gl | ||
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Vivax
21976 Posts
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Vivax
21976 Posts
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Vivax
21976 Posts
+ Show Spoiler +  On a side note, people don't seem to treat this like a newbie game. And more posts in mafia qt than here, Blazinghand even posted a postcount there. | ||
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