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On July 02 2012 12:46 Oberyn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 12:39 Oberyn wrote:On July 02 2012 12:36 Oberyn wrote:On July 02 2012 12:33 GreYMisT wrote:On July 02 2012 12:11 Oberyn wrote:On July 02 2012 12:07 Oberyn wrote:On July 02 2012 09:09 Oberyn wrote:@kita: lol where the fuck are you? Are you scum? (  ) I'd like your opinion as well to have more fresh opinions in this game Of course I am, didn't you read our role pm? Well, I'm town. If you are scum you should die ##Attack: Oberyn, with: CloneDie scum! (the rest of you guys are boring. I don't post for a few hours and you guys don't do shit. This is the kind of stuff that makes me spam-spam-spam, nobody posts shit so I have to do something to keep some discussion going). It's not discussion when you are talking to yourself. I'm going to take out the phyrexian thing. You guys already said that you don't have much in the way of flying, and it has the higher defense. Objections? I thought you'd never come back. It's his 0/3 wall right? No objections here. He's lying again. He objects. Wait wat? Are you objecting or Grey objects? >_> Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 12:40 GreYMisT wrote:On July 02 2012 12:38 Oberyn wrote:On July 02 2012 12:33 GreYMisT wrote:On July 02 2012 12:11 Oberyn wrote:On July 02 2012 12:07 Oberyn wrote:On July 02 2012 09:09 Oberyn wrote:@kita: lol where the fuck are you? Are you scum? ( ) I'd like your opinion as well to have more fresh opinions in this game Of course I am, didn't you read our role pm? Well, I'm town. If you are scum you should die ##Attack: Oberyn, with: CloneDie scum! (the rest of you guys are boring. I don't post for a few hours and you guys don't do shit. This is the kind of stuff that makes me spam-spam-spam, nobody posts shit so I have to do something to keep some discussion going). It's not discussion when you are talking to yourself. I'm going to take out the phyrexian thing. You guys already said that you don't have much in the way of flying, and it has the higher defense. Objections? As someone who has played slivers plenty of times, there is no way in the world I would consider sacrificing something in a deck that snowballs to take out a 0/3. Are you trying to be seen as less of a threat or something because I don't see what this accomplishes? Well you asked me to do it to a 0/2 before. And it was my understanding I was dying this turn, what else am I going to use it on? That was kita. Yeah do it, we won't need to fear you destroying Nova's 8/8 for instance.
![[image loading]](http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Bettajdbka.jpg)
Don't listen to him! Think of all the destruction you could cause elsewhere!
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Damn I keep having this annoying voice in my head >_> ()
Grey, who are you attacking this turn (with your 1/1 flying beast)? Zealos?
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Okay, before going to sleep I have some questions I'd like answered.
To Grey:
Please tell me, what exactly are you planning here? Why are you not caring about the game? You say "Kill me so it will show you who is scum" or something.....but why do you "sacrifice" yourself to do that? Here you are alive, why can't you do that now?
And it's not like the whole town is harassing you and FoSing you (like in D2). Nobody (except WBG I think) is tunneling you right now, why did you "give up"? What are you planning to do?
"Sacrificing yourself" may seem like something townies do more often, but they usually do that when their fate is already sealed, and after countless hours of trying to convince people not to kill them (and they usually do it out of frustration).
....here none of that is happening, you can't be frustrated right now since nobody is "marking you for death" or anything (other than WBG, but he just made 1 post and disappeared he's not constantly attacking you).
That's what I don't get if you were town, and I think kita said something similar to me as well.
Though, if you were scum I don't get this either (if you were scum you'd try to survive...right? Nobody is doing shit right now this would seem like the perfect chance)....but it doesn't make sense as town either, so like marv said "If something doesn't make sense from any POV it was most likely made by mafia"
Also, I'm still waiting for you to destroy Zealos' 0/3 card.
To WBG:
What are your thoughts on other players other than Grey?
What exactly do you think of Zealos and Fulla? I saw you saying they were "scummy" and "possibly the 2nd mafia" and stuff but I didn't see you post concrete reasons for that (just saw you complain about giving Fulla mana and shit).
Also there are people you never mentioned yet, like Mattchew, S&B and Promethelax, what are your thoughts on them?
Also, like I said if I attack Grey with my 11/11 beast (Nova I'm waiting for your enchantment ), you can kill Grey just with your 4/4 beast.
That leaves your Hovemyr untapped, so who are you attacking with it? Zealos? Fulla? Not attacking at all?
To Zealos:
On July 02 2012 10:36 Oberyn wrote:Zealos, what do you think of Nova, Prome, and all those you said you were going to look today? Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 11:22 Zealos wrote:On July 01 2012 10:57 Oberyn wrote:On July 01 2012 10:48 Zealos wrote:
I'm really inclined to say ignore the non-shot and continue as normal. Presuming the missing shot was deliberate, it was designed to cause chaos. Lets not let it. Okay, if you ignore the "non-shot", what do you think of Nova/Mattchew/Promethelax? I'll look over in the morning, too lazy and tired atm I'm afraid. And what do you think of S&B now? Do you still think he's scum? Who do you think is the townie out of S&B/Greymist/Mattchew ? (there HAS to be a townie out of those, at least 1) Also please explain to me how your deck works (I asked you before but you didn't answer). What is the purpose of those 0/2 monsters you have?
Everybody else:
On July 02 2012 10:48 Oberyn wrote:
I'd like everybody to post who they'd be attacking this turn.
Will someone attack Zealos? Will someone attack S&B? Will someone attack Mattchew? Will more people attack Greymist (WBG said he would)?
I think I'll be attacking Greymist so we get this thing over with; I have no freaking idea if he's scum or town because he just isn't playing the game at all; at least we can have a flip or something to give us more info since a no-death game is pretty hard to play.
However, depending on how people act/react I could attack someone else (if I figure out they are mafia).
@Greymist: use your " 3 mana- Destroy target permanent" ability on Zealos or I'm using Echoing Truth on you, this is the last warning.
[About the "Giant Growth" enchantment: I'm not that sure. Now I'm guessing Nova is town again, so it would be better for him to have it instead of me (since I'll most likely die by next turn), so he'll constantly have a 11/11 beast on town's side.
However, if he's scum...or even if he's town but has awful reads, it would greatly hurt town, but the alternative (he's town and makes sense) would greatly benefit us.
Plus, if he is the one attacking Greymist it has the same outcome as if I was the one attacking Greymist with the enchantment on my own beast.
Food for though]
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On July 02 2012 13:35 Oberyn wrote:Everybody else:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 10:48 Oberyn wrote:
I'd like everybody to post who they'd be attacking this turn.
Will someone attack Zealos? Will someone attack S&B? Will someone attack Mattchew? Will more people attack Greymist (WBG said he would)?
I think I'll be attacking Greymist so we get this thing over with; I have no freaking idea if he's scum or town because he just isn't playing the game at all; at least we can have a flip or something to give us more info since a no-death game is pretty hard to play.
However, depending on how people act/react I could attack someone else (if I figure out they are mafia).
@Greymist: use your " 3 mana- Destroy target permanent" ability on Zealos or I'm using Echoing Truth on you, this is the last warning. [About the "Giant Growth" enchantment: I'm not that sure. Now I'm guessing Nova is town again, so it would be better for him to have it instead of me (since I'll most likely die by next turn), so he'll constantly have a 11/11 beast on town's side.
However, if he's scum...or even if he's town but has awful reads, it would greatly hurt town, but the alternative (he's town and makes sense) would greatly benefit us.
Plus, if he is the one attacking Greymist it has the same outcome as if I was the one attacking Greymist with the enchantment on my own beast.
Food for though]
I will be playing goblin warchief and I will not be attacking for i have small creatures that if blocked will die. The idea behind my deck is to overrun a person (quickly) with a bunch of small creatures. I will be around this time to attack with my lackey to get something out.
I don't like the idea of giving zealos an 11/11 without anyone flipping yet. I was fine with the two of you having 8/8's on the field because I had a town read on you and that kinda neutralized having another 8/8 out.
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On July 02 2012 13:44 Mattchew wrote:
I will be playing goblin warchief and I will not be attacking for i have small creatures that if blocked will die. The idea behind my deck is to overrun a person (quickly) with a bunch of small creatures. I will be around this time to attack with my lackey to get something out.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IaAFx.jpg)
I don't like the idea of giving zealos an 11/11 without anyone flipping yet. I was fine with the two of you having 8/8's on the field because I had a town read on you and that kinda neutralized having another 8/8 out.
???
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meh was looking at this thread first and didn't see the global card and then fucked up an misread the players involved.
woops.
anyway. give nova an 11/11 just don't give zealos one
and ill be attacking zealos
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On July 02 2012 13:52 Mattchew wrote:
meh was looking at this thread first and didn't see the global card and then fucked up an misread the players involved.
woops.
anyway. give nova an 11/11 just don't give zealos one
and ill be attacking zealos
Do you still think Greymist is town and is "logical"?
What about other players? Who do you think could be the 2nd scum?
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On July 02 2012 13:56 Oberyn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 13:52 Mattchew wrote:
meh was looking at this thread first and didn't see the global card and then fucked up an misread the players involved.
woops.
anyway. give nova an 11/11 just don't give zealos one
and ill be attacking zealos Do you still think Greymist is town and is "logical"? What about other players? Who do you think could be the 2nd scum?
Yes.
I think fulla scares me and needs to die, and prome wanting to spread damage out seemed really mafia agenda pushing.
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On July 02 2012 08:04 WereBugs-Go wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 01:25 strongandbig wrote:On July 02 2012 01:00 WereBugs-Go wrote:Also here's another thing. Yeah I said I don't want us to talk about this no-shot but I really think it was weird for the purpose of being weird. This shot is troublesome for the Nova, Obe and myself as we're doubting our townreads because we're asking ourselfes "why didn't they shoot at least one of Nova+WBG" and I think that's the purpose of this no-shot. I'm talking about this because of Obe's case on Nova. I think it is somewhat weak, Nova might or might not end up being mafia but I think this only started because of the no-shot, so here we go: - Let's assume I am modconfirmed town for a second, I think obe is town and I got a slight townread on nova. That's what I said the most recent cycle. What does that mean for me? Surely Obe didn't get shot because they want to kill him with a 2nd hit instead of leaving him alive with 2HP. But why didn't they shoot me? Probably because that would have made Nova look bad because they didn't shoot him although he has a 8/8 trample thingie. So from my point of view this no-shot should trigger a "wtf, I was wrong on Nova and he's actually mafia" reaction.
- Same goes the other way arround. Let's assume I am nova, I am a modconfirmed town, I think obe is town and I got a slight townread on WBG. Pretty sure he said something like that as well. It's a slightly different situation because shooting me could make sense from his point of view because I'm a Toad+Marv hydra and that's scary as well but a no-shot should instantly trigger the same "wtf, I was wrong on WBG and he's actually mafia" reaction if he's town.
- And if Obe is town having a townread on Nova and myself, it should trigger a "wtf, either WBG or Nova has to be mafia, there's no other reason for not shooting into one of them" and frankly he just said he thinks very strongly that Nova is mafia yesterday after that shot.
Those conclusions are logical and they should come to my / Novas / Gonzaws mind instantly. I can see Obe thought of it as he clearly thinks Nova is mafia right now. I know I thought about it as well but didn't mention it because I didn't want to start the wifom-talk and Nova either was as smart as I am or he didn't realize it. Funny thing is: It's again a reason to attack Greymist. This no-shot does nothing but casting doubt between us 3 while it has nothing to do with Greymist. It pushes us into thinking "well that means this guy HAS to be mafia" and I think that's what's going on. If Greymist somehow magically flips town, fine we can talk about this and one of us 3 has to be mafia but right now I'd say mafia did something unlogically (not shooting) to push us into trying to figure out what could be the most logical solution to this problem, thus defending Greymist by mislynching into one of our townreads because of that no-shot. This is all way to convenient to be true. There is a shitton of "information" we could get from that no-shot but only one explanation can be true. A lot of it is stuff like "well that guy has to be mafia then I guess" but I can't think of a scenario that involves Greymist. We're killing Greymist today and killing the 2nd mafia tomorrow. If Greymist somehow really flips town we're searching for mafia in Nov, Obe or myself but if Grey is really mafia the other 3 names are all town. That's it from me for a while. On my way to my place again and probably won't post something for the next 16 hours or something like that. Have to start SSB mafia later when I'm back (24:00 my time) and I won't have time to post in here between starting that game and sleeping I guess. Two things: 1. why couldn't mafia have thrown around the same amount of doubt by attacking a lurker or someone under suspicion? 2. It doesn't seem like Nova came to that same conclusion. Under your analysis what does that mean? They could have, but not shooting at all is a stronger "wtf just happened"-moment than shooting someone town didn't think would end up being shot. Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 02:38 Nova_Terra wrote:
WBG why do you come to the conclusion that if grey flips town one of me you or obe is scum? If Greymist ends up flipping town I doubt they would have not shot unless of course they really forgot about it. So far I'm sticking with: "As long as I think Grey is mafia and don't have something that tells me otherwise I'm pretty sure they tried to cast doubt."If Grey is SOMEHOW a townie there is no reason not to shoot into either you or me unless one of us is mafia and mafia doesn't want to tell us which one of us is mafia. Picture the following situation: Obe dead and confirmed town by that point, Greymist dead and confirmed town, I got shot by mafia or am already dead because of mafia and confirmed town. What might that mean about you? You're looking bad, because mafia tried not to shoot me. Same goes the other way around. I don't think it's going to come to that situation because I'm pretty sure Greymist is mafia but I still thought about it.
I still dont see the connection between one of us 3 being possible scum and greymist at all
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On July 02 2012 08:59 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 08:50 Zealos wrote:On July 02 2012 08:03 Mattchew wrote:
oberyn can you tell me why you think zealos and fulla are town. And WBG for that matter.
What do you think of me? You offer nothing, you try to blend in and your opinions are trying to push the death of people i think are town
Hahahahahaha this is funny
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The giant growth lasts for 1 turn only
Also I will attack mattchew with the 11/11 and grey/s&b with everything else, objections?
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On July 02 2012 13:35 Oberyn wrote:To Zealos:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 10:36 Oberyn wrote:Zealos, what do you think of Nova, Prome, and all those you said you were going to look today? On July 01 2012 11:22 Zealos wrote:On July 01 2012 10:57 Oberyn wrote:On July 01 2012 10:48 Zealos wrote:
I'm really inclined to say ignore the non-shot and continue as normal. Presuming the missing shot was deliberate, it was designed to cause chaos. Lets not let it. Okay, if you ignore the "non-shot", what do you think of Nova/Mattchew/Promethelax? I'll look over in the morning, too lazy and tired atm I'm afraid. And what do you think of S&B now? Do you still think he's scum? Who do you think is the townie out of S&B/Greymist/Mattchew ? (there HAS to be a townie out of those, at least 1) Also please explain to me how your deck works (I asked you before but you didn't answer). What is the purpose of those 0/2 monsters you have?
Ok, deck works as such: Once I have the right cards in my turn, I play a ton of monsters on one turn (hence they cost nothing) then cast a spell that does damage, and repeats itself for everything I had cast on the turn so far, so it does 4*the number of monsters/spells used, hence doing enough damage to one hit someone. The reason for playing those 0/2 monsters is because I'm an idiot.
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As for the rest. S&B Looks a little more townish than before, but still pretty scummy in my book. Mattchew does seem to be acting a little different from other games I've seen him play, so I'd say he's leaning to the red side, but I wouldn't attack him yet.
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On July 02 2012 14:02 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 13:56 Oberyn wrote:On July 02 2012 13:52 Mattchew wrote:
meh was looking at this thread first and didn't see the global card and then fucked up an misread the players involved.
woops.
anyway. give nova an 11/11 just don't give zealos one
and ill be attacking zealos Do you still think Greymist is town and is "logical"? What about other players? Who do you think could be the 2nd scum? Yes. I think fulla scares me and needs to die, and prome wanting to spread damage out seemed really mafia agenda pushing.
Why are you getting so hostile all of a sudden?
What scares you about me?
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not hostile, just afraid how your deck may work if you go unchecked, which you have flown pretty well under the radar this game
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On July 02 2012 13:35 Oberyn wrote:Okay, before going to sleep I have some questions I'd like answered. To Grey:Please tell me, what exactly are you planning here? Why are you not caring about the game? You say "Kill me so it will show you who is scum" or something.....but why do you "sacrifice" yourself to do that? Here you are alive, why can't you do that now? And it's not like the whole town is harassing you and FoSing you (like in D2). Nobody (except WBG I think) is tunneling you right now, why did you "give up"? What are you planning to do? "Sacrificing yourself" may seem like something townies do more often, but they usually do that when their fate is already sealed, and after countless hours of trying to convince people not to kill them (and they usually do it out of frustration). ....here none of that is happening, you can't be frustrated right now since nobody is "marking you for death" or anything (other than WBG, but he just made 1 post and disappeared he's not constantly attacking you). That's what I don't get if you were town, and I think kita said something similar to me as well. Though, if you were scum I don't get this either (if you were scum you'd try to survive...right? Nobody is doing shit right now this would seem like the perfect chance)....but it doesn't make sense as town either, so like marv said "If something doesn't make sense from any POV it was most likely made by mafia"Also, I'm still waiting for you to destroy Zealos' 0/3 card. To WBG:What are your thoughts on other players other than Grey? What exactly do you think of Zealos and Fulla? I saw you saying they were "scummy" and "possibly the 2nd mafia" and stuff but I didn't see you post concrete reasons for that (just saw you complain about giving Fulla mana and shit). Also there are people you never mentioned yet, like Mattchew, S&B and Promethelax, what are your thoughts on them? Also, like I said if I attack Grey with my 11/11 beast (Nova I'm waiting for your enchantment ), you can kill Grey just with your 4/4 beast. That leaves your Hovemyr untapped, so who are you attacking with it? Zealos? Fulla? Not attacking at all? To Zealos:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 10:36 Oberyn wrote:Zealos, what do you think of Nova, Prome, and all those you said you were going to look today? On July 01 2012 11:22 Zealos wrote:On July 01 2012 10:57 Oberyn wrote:On July 01 2012 10:48 Zealos wrote:
I'm really inclined to say ignore the non-shot and continue as normal. Presuming the missing shot was deliberate, it was designed to cause chaos. Lets not let it. Okay, if you ignore the "non-shot", what do you think of Nova/Mattchew/Promethelax? I'll look over in the morning, too lazy and tired atm I'm afraid. And what do you think of S&B now? Do you still think he's scum? Who do you think is the townie out of S&B/Greymist/Mattchew ? (there HAS to be a townie out of those, at least 1) Also please explain to me how your deck works (I asked you before but you didn't answer). What is the purpose of those 0/2 monsters you have? Everybody else:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 10:48 Oberyn wrote:
I'd like everybody to post who they'd be attacking this turn.
Will someone attack Zealos? Will someone attack S&B? Will someone attack Mattchew? Will more people attack Greymist (WBG said he would)?
I think I'll be attacking Greymist so we get this thing over with; I have no freaking idea if he's scum or town because he just isn't playing the game at all; at least we can have a flip or something to give us more info since a no-death game is pretty hard to play.
However, depending on how people act/react I could attack someone else (if I figure out they are mafia).
@Greymist: use your " 3 mana- Destroy target permanent" ability on Zealos or I'm using Echoing Truth on you, this is the last warning. [About the "Giant Growth" enchantment: I'm not that sure. Now I'm guessing Nova is town again, so it would be better for him to have it instead of me (since I'll most likely die by next turn), so he'll constantly have a 11/11 beast on town's side.
However, if he's scum...or even if he's town but has awful reads, it would greatly hurt town, but the alternative (he's town and makes sense) would greatly benefit us.
Plus, if he is the one attacking Greymist it has the same outcome as if I was the one attacking Greymist with the enchantment on my own beast.
Food for though]
I already told you who was scum. Its S&B and Matt/Zealos. Though I am a little unconvinced of matt right now. Regardless. I think S&B should die.
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I think we need to kill S&B. Here's my theory. If S&B is mafia, Grey is almost certain scum. However, if we kill Grey and he is scum, it doesn't make the mafia case on S&B that much stronger.
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And if you're so sure S&B needs to die then why are you attacking me Grey?
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On July 02 2012 23:57 Zealos wrote:
I think we need to kill S&B. Here's my theory. If S&B is mafia, Grey is almost certain scum. However, if we kill Grey and he is scum, it doesn't make the mafia case on S&B that much stronger.
How does that work?
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@Obe:
I'm usually trying to figure out players I know myself and try and figure out people I can't figure out by method of elimination.
"I can't figure them out" can be a lot of things. Either someone lurking or someone I never played before or only barely played with him, like 1 game and the guy lurkers hardcore in that game.
As you said I'm having a strong townread on you and a strong mafiaread on Greymist.
I'm having a townread on nova in general although it's nowhere as strong a the on on you or the mafiaread on Grey.
Fulla is giving me an incredible hard time to judge and frankly I'm worried that you're not worried. He's a complete null to me.
I'd consider matt to be scummy but having problems to really stick with it. I saw him play in Holy Roman, he was mafia and dished out correct reads because he was all like "well guys, I'm telling them you are mafia because you're making it to obvious, I have to!" when in reality it wasn't obvious and just his confirmaton bias. When asked he wasn't able to explain why he thought the way he thought which should is a pretty strong mafiaread in general. I'm kind of seeing this this game again. No where as strong as in Holy Roman but I feel like he's having troubles explaining why he thinks the way he thinks for some reason. I need to read some town games of him first though.
S&B looks somewhat scummy but mostly because he managed to make me think he's clearly town in the game (games?) we played as town together. I just got a weird feeling about him. That's what I'm talking about when talking about method of elimination. If Grey someone manages to flip town I'd say we're best to look into guys like that, or Matt, or Fulla or Nova.
Zealos looks downright bad. He's really not doing a thing. He's not looking like the guy from LV (mafia) but he surely isn't looking like a townie either. I'd guess he'd change up as mafia after getting busted in LV so easily by Supersoft very early on just wouldn't try to do the same trick again. Again, one of those process of eliminition guys. I'm not really having anything on him that tells me to not attack that guy.
Prom actually looks good. Yeah he's new and all but I'd rather put my money on him being town than on someone like Fulla.
That being said I'd say I've got 3 mayor mafia reads so far:
Greymist
Mattchew
Zealos
If those are wrong I'd be willing to attack into someone like S&B or Fulla but not right now. The issue however is, that it needs to get more precise and I need those guys who are somewhere in the middle to do some analysis themselves.
I'd like you to post less Obe, so far we're having a lot of posts from you and mostly people disagree or agree with you but it's maybe hard for the new guys to come up with something themselves if you're posting so much and pretty much everything's already said.
I don't think the good looking guys need to post A LOT right now unless there's something really important. We need to improve our reads on the middle group and make it more precise and therefore we need them to do something themselves, without being influenced by us (mostly you) all the time or without them just repeating what was already said.
Lean back a little, watch what's going to happen and do a post later on please. We really need those other guys to take over for the sake of making them better to read. There's really not much to read out of "yeah I agree with obe's plan, let's summon those 8/8 thingies" at all unless you already know who's got what alignment.
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EPT
