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On July 03 2012 01:40 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 00:48 GreYMisT wrote:On July 03 2012 00:26 Zealos wrote:On July 03 2012 00:17 GreYMisT wrote:On July 02 2012 23:57 Zealos wrote:
I think we need to kill S&B. Here's my theory. If S&B is mafia, Grey is almost certain scum. However, if we kill Grey and he is scum, it doesn't make the mafia case on S&B that much stronger. How does that work? Because your sudden decision to put him at the top of your list now it looks like he's gonna die just seems like a desperate bus at this point. My first case on him was before he was going to die But he was 2nd on your list. Classic scum mindset. 2 or 3 people, with one scumbuddy on the list, just not on the top. However, now he's obviously gonna die you can put him to the top.
Why is S&B "obviously" gonna die? Wat
Are you going to kill him with your 0/2 monsters? Because last time I checked me/Nova had the 8/8+11/11 beasts and we are not planning to attack S&B.
On July 02 2012 23:57 Zealos wrote:
I think we need to kill S&B. Here's my theory. If S&B is mafia, Grey is almost certain scum. However, if we kill Grey and he is scum, it doesn't make the mafia case on S&B that much stronger.
By your logic, if we kill Grey and he flips town S&B is most certainly town right?
So why wouldn't you kill Grey following this logic? Either Grey flips scum (and we get one scum), or he flips town and we "get" one town in S&B (following your logic.....which is actually bad but well).
Zealos, what do you actually think of S&B? Other than "his case on me is bad". Make some analysis on him and his play, don't just retaliate
On July 03 2012 00:23 WereBugs-Go wrote:
Lean back a little, watch what's going to happen and do a post later on please. We really need those other guys to take over for the sake of making them better to read. There's really not much to read out of "yeah I agree with obe's plan, let's summon those 8/8 thingies" at all unless you already know who's got what alignment.
I have a test tomorrow so basically I'm forced to "lean back a little" >_>
On July 02 2012 23:48 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 13:35 Oberyn wrote:Okay, before going to sleep I have some questions I'd like answered. To Grey:Please tell me, what exactly are you planning here? Why are you not caring about the game? You say "Kill me so it will show you who is scum" or something.....but why do you "sacrifice" yourself to do that? Here you are alive, why can't you do that now? And it's not like the whole town is harassing you and FoSing you (like in D2). Nobody (except WBG I think) is tunneling you right now, why did you "give up"? What are you planning to do? "Sacrificing yourself" may seem like something townies do more often, but they usually do that when their fate is already sealed, and after countless hours of trying to convince people not to kill them (and they usually do it out of frustration). ....here none of that is happening, you can't be frustrated right now since nobody is "marking you for death" or anything (other than WBG, but he just made 1 post and disappeared he's not constantly attacking you). That's what I don't get if you were town, and I think kita said something similar to me as well. Though, if you were scum I don't get this either (if you were scum you'd try to survive...right? Nobody is doing shit right now this would seem like the perfect chance)....but it doesn't make sense as town either, so like marv said "If something doesn't make sense from any POV it was most likely made by mafia"Also, I'm still waiting for you to destroy Zealos' 0/3 card. To WBG:What are your thoughts on other players other than Grey? What exactly do you think of Zealos and Fulla? I saw you saying they were "scummy" and "possibly the 2nd mafia" and stuff but I didn't see you post concrete reasons for that (just saw you complain about giving Fulla mana and shit). Also there are people you never mentioned yet, like Mattchew, S&B and Promethelax, what are your thoughts on them? Also, like I said if I attack Grey with my 11/11 beast (Nova I'm waiting for your enchantment  ), you can kill Grey just with your 4/4 beast. That leaves your Hovemyr untapped, so who are you attacking with it? Zealos? Fulla? Not attacking at all? To Zealos:On July 02 2012 10:36 Oberyn wrote:Zealos, what do you think of Nova, Prome, and all those you said you were going to look today? On July 01 2012 11:22 Zealos wrote:On July 01 2012 10:57 Oberyn wrote:On July 01 2012 10:48 Zealos wrote:
I'm really inclined to say ignore the non-shot and continue as normal. Presuming the missing shot was deliberate, it was designed to cause chaos. Lets not let it. Okay, if you ignore the "non-shot", what do you think of Nova/Mattchew/Promethelax? I'll look over in the morning, too lazy and tired atm I'm afraid. And what do you think of S&B now? Do you still think he's scum? Who do you think is the townie out of S&B/Greymist/Mattchew ? (there HAS to be a townie out of those, at least 1) Also please explain to me how your deck works (I asked you before but you didn't answer). What is the purpose of those 0/2 monsters you have? Everybody else:On July 02 2012 10:48 Oberyn wrote:
I'd like everybody to post who they'd be attacking this turn.
Will someone attack Zealos? Will someone attack S&B? Will someone attack Mattchew? Will more people attack Greymist (WBG said he would)?
I think I'll be attacking Greymist so we get this thing over with; I have no freaking idea if he's scum or town because he just isn't playing the game at all; at least we can have a flip or something to give us more info since a no-death game is pretty hard to play.
However, depending on how people act/react I could attack someone else (if I figure out they are mafia).
@Greymist: use your " 3 mana- Destroy target permanent" ability on Zealos or I'm using Echoing Truth on you, this is the last warning. [About the "Giant Growth" enchantment: I'm not that sure. Now I'm guessing Nova is town again, so it would be better for him to have it instead of me (since I'll most likely die by next turn), so he'll constantly have a 11/11 beast on town's side.
However, if he's scum...or even if he's town but has awful reads, it would greatly hurt town, but the alternative (he's town and makes sense) would greatly benefit us.
Plus, if he is the one attacking Greymist it has the same outcome as if I was the one attacking Greymist with the enchantment on my own beast.
Food for though] I already told you who was scum. Its S&B and Matt/Zealos. Though I am a little unconvinced of matt right now. Regardless. I think S&B should die.
Answer the question please, I didn't ask you who you think is scum.
@Fulla: Please answer me this.
Who will you attack today and why? Who is scum? I don't remember you actually accusing someone this game, and to be honest I'm finding that kind of fishy, specially considering you said you were "experienced at mafia" (the fact that it's your 1st game has nothing to do with it since it's Promethelax's first game as well and he's been scumhunting since the beginning).
Don't say things like "So today we are attacking Greymist?" or "I don't know is this scummy behaviour?". That's suspicious as hell.
Zealos, Fulla, what do you guys think of each other?
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I purpose we don't kill greymist. Instead we kill Fulla because of posts like this
On June 27 2012 06:56 Fulla wrote:
Why do you want to attack me Nova?
I won't re-retaliate if you do. I don't have any good enough reads, I'm literally just going by a 1/3 chance of you being scum.
On June 27 2012 06:57 Fulla wrote:
1/4 chance sorry.
At this point who is everyone else leaning towards attacking?
He is constantly trying to sheep his opinions from others to avoid any and all responsibility on himself. He is afraid to post his opinions, he even posted a list of everyone without a single scum or leaning scum read here.
On June 26 2012 05:39 Fulla wrote:
I am newish to forum based mafia yes sorry. I'm not used to people posting such huge chunks of text at a time, and replying. I'm more used to real time fluid constant chat it's a bit overwhelming. It's not a good excuse I know, just bare in mind.
Anyways It seems the more I talk the more I only make myself suspicious, but I'll try to keep contributing. Hopefully steadily more useful input.
Town
Obe + Prom - seem very town to me.
Grey - town feeling to me.
Neutral
Strong - not sure, why so eager to attack?
Nova - not sure - quite hostile, but then probably just low tolerance for noobs, which is fair enough tbh.
Can't say yet
Were - 1 post..?
Matt - barely posted anything?
Zeal - only posted how agrees we should all reveal?
I like how this is one of the only times he speaks about grey calling him town extremely quickly. While I have done the same, I don't think grey has done anything drastically differently to change anyones opinions on him yet now we see this from fulla
On July 02 2012 00:23 Fulla wrote:
I say cast it it on Obe Avatar yeah
Are we all attacking Greymist then? Yes?
Finally we have this next post. Again, he is trying to deflect attention, blame, and responsibility for his actions. He is literally just floating along with the game doing what whoever most people consider town tell him to do. He has done nothing in terms of finding scum.
On July 03 2012 01:32 Fulla wrote:
What makes you suspicious of me Were?
If you want I'll cast all my spells next turn on a voted target.
Fulla should be killed before greymist or anyone else.
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I don't particularly find Fulla scummy at all. I'm also questioning myself over S&B and think it would be stronger to attack Grey instead. I fall into the trap of attacking whoever makes a case on me. Although his relationship with Grey is really strange, and his case on me /was/ terrible, it could easily just have been a determined townie trying to make his case. So I suggest leaving S&B for now and attacking Grey instead.
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To elaborate on Fulla: I find his play reminiscent of my first game as town. Although often it is a case of not having solid opinions = scum, there is also the possibility of just simply not knowing. It happens to me often on Day 1's for instance, where I just don't know who is scum, and making random cases doesn't help.
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Especially when he posts about it being "Overwhelming" this is a feeling I can relate to from a town perspective.
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Zealos since you've played so much connect-the-dots with Grey flipping scum, how would you connect things if Grey were to flip town?
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On July 03 2012 04:07 Zealos wrote:
I don't particularly find Fulla scummy at all. I'm also questioning myself over S&B and think it would be stronger to attack Grey instead. I fall into the trap of attacking whoever makes a case on me. Although his relationship with Grey is really strange, and his case on me /was/ terrible, it could easily just have been a determined townie trying to make his case. So I suggest leaving S&B for now and attacking Grey instead.
What about his posts, contributions, etc? What do those tell you? That he's scum or town (S&B)?
@Mattchew: Hmm...I could see a Fulla+Greymist scumteam.
I say we kill Greymist today since this is just ridiculous, he's not even playing and him being alive will make our lives a living hell later since we can't read him for shit if he does shit all.
We have lots of town damage to use though, we could attack Fulla as well.
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On July 02 2012 18:12 Nova_Terra wrote:
The giant growth lasts for 1 turn only
Also I will attack mattchew with the 11/11 and grey/s&b with everything else, objections?
Oh if it lasts for 1 turn then it doesn't matter.
Although I'd prefer having a 11/11 myself, since you already have 13 potential damage to do (2 Shaman, 3 RootWalla, 8 Avatar).
Also I'm not that comfortable attacking Mattchew today...although him having less HP wouldn't be bad.
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On July 03 2012 04:14 Oberyn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 04:07 Zealos wrote:
I don't particularly find Fulla scummy at all. I'm also questioning myself over S&B and think it would be stronger to attack Grey instead. I fall into the trap of attacking whoever makes a case on me. Although his relationship with Grey is really strange, and his case on me /was/ terrible, it could easily just have been a determined townie trying to make his case. So I suggest leaving S&B for now and attacking Grey instead. What about his posts, contributions, etc? What do those tell you? That he's scum or town (S&B)? @Mattchew: Hmm...I could see a Fulla+Greymist scumteam. I say we kill Greymist today since this is just ridiculous, he's not even playing and him being alive will make our lives a living hell later since we can't read him for shit if he does shit all. We have lots of town damage to use though, we could attack Fulla as well.
Once again, stop using connections.
Grey's flip has nothing to do with my read on fulla
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On July 03 2012 04:17 Oberyn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 18:12 Nova_Terra wrote:
The giant growth lasts for 1 turn only
Also I will attack mattchew with the 11/11 and grey/s&b with everything else, objections? Oh if it lasts for 1 turn then it doesn't matter. Although I'd prefer having a 11/11 myself, since you already have 13 potential damage to do (2 Shaman, 3 RootWalla, 8 Avatar). Also I'm not that comfortable attacking Mattchew today...although him having less HP wouldn't be bad.
I know that I am not in any position to be hit by the monster cause of the amount of suspicion on me, especially not knowing how grey will flip. I am fine with taking non-lethal damage but I would prefer it being pushed onto other targets like fulla and zealos.
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On July 03 2012 04:20 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 04:17 Oberyn wrote:On July 02 2012 18:12 Nova_Terra wrote:
The giant growth lasts for 1 turn only
Also I will attack mattchew with the 11/11 and grey/s&b with everything else, objections? Oh if it lasts for 1 turn then it doesn't matter. Although I'd prefer having a 11/11 myself, since you already have 13 potential damage to do (2 Shaman, 3 RootWalla, 8 Avatar). Also I'm not that comfortable attacking Mattchew today...although him having less HP wouldn't be bad. I know that I am not in any position to be hit by the monster cause of the amount of suspicion on me, especially not knowing how grey will flip. I am fine with taking non-lethal damage but I would prefer it being pushed onto other targets like fulla and zealos.
We have like 50 or so potential damage, we can do whatever we want.
You can attack Fulla yourself with your 7 damage
The 11/11 beast+WBG's 4/4 beast can instantly kill Grey
The rest of the people can attack you+ Zealos for instance
Also there would be a 8/8 without use....don't know who that one will attack though.
I don't know if it would be a good idea to let everybody "do whatever they want" because I can see everybody attacking everybody this turn (like you attacking Fulla, Zealos attacking S&B, S&B attacking Zealos, Nova attacking you, etc).
I guess that wouldn't be that bad ("suspicious" people get their HP reduced), but it leaves very little room to coordination.
Once again, stop using connections.
Grey's flip has nothing to do with my read on fulla
Well, I generally use connections, not only just because of their interaction in the thread but mostly to see the general "strategy" scum have; and I could see the "strategy" in a Grey+Fulla scumteam (Grey "gives up" while Fulla lays low and survives). Nothing definitive though.
That's what made me think you+Grey were very unlikely be scum together for instance
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On July 03 2012 04:12 Mattchew wrote:
Zealos since you've played so much connect-the-dots with Grey flipping scum, how would you connect things if Grey were to flip town?
It wouldn't be that shocking. I think it would mean I would want to wait a little longer before deciding on S&B. I have no current third read, so there's not much to say there really.
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On July 03 2012 04:40 Oberyn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 04:20 Mattchew wrote:On July 03 2012 04:17 Oberyn wrote:On July 02 2012 18:12 Nova_Terra wrote:
The giant growth lasts for 1 turn only
Also I will attack mattchew with the 11/11 and grey/s&b with everything else, objections? Oh if it lasts for 1 turn then it doesn't matter. Although I'd prefer having a 11/11 myself, since you already have 13 potential damage to do (2 Shaman, 3 RootWalla, 8 Avatar). Also I'm not that comfortable attacking Mattchew today...although him having less HP wouldn't be bad. I know that I am not in any position to be hit by the monster cause of the amount of suspicion on me, especially not knowing how grey will flip. I am fine with taking non-lethal damage but I would prefer it being pushed onto other targets like fulla and zealos. We have like 50 or so potential damage, we can do whatever we want. You can attack Fulla yourself with your 7 damage The 11/11 beast+WBG's 4/4 beast can instantly kill Grey The rest of the people can attack you+ Zealos for instance Also there would be a 8/8 without use....don't know who that one will attack though. I don't know if it would be a good idea to let everybody "do whatever they want" because I can see everybody attacking everybody this turn (like you attacking Fulla, Zealos attacking S&B, S&B attacking Zealos, Nova attacking you, etc). I guess that wouldn't be that bad ("suspicious" people get their HP reduced), but it leaves very little room to coordination. Show nested quote +Once again, stop using connections.
Grey's flip has nothing to do with my read on fulla Well, I generally use connections, not only just because of their interaction in the thread but mostly to see the general "strategy" scum have; and I could see the "strategy" in a Grey+Fulla scumteam (Grey "gives up" while Fulla lays low and survives). Nothing definitive though. That's what made me think you+Grey were very unlikely be scum together for instance
I think we should aim for killing one person and seeing how they flip. This damage dispencing plan seems like a really easy way to hand the victory to either alignment. It seems like a lot of risk
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On July 03 2012 04:47 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 04:40 Oberyn wrote:On July 03 2012 04:20 Mattchew wrote:On July 03 2012 04:17 Oberyn wrote:On July 02 2012 18:12 Nova_Terra wrote:
The giant growth lasts for 1 turn only
Also I will attack mattchew with the 11/11 and grey/s&b with everything else, objections? Oh if it lasts for 1 turn then it doesn't matter. Although I'd prefer having a 11/11 myself, since you already have 13 potential damage to do (2 Shaman, 3 RootWalla, 8 Avatar). Also I'm not that comfortable attacking Mattchew today...although him having less HP wouldn't be bad. I know that I am not in any position to be hit by the monster cause of the amount of suspicion on me, especially not knowing how grey will flip. I am fine with taking non-lethal damage but I would prefer it being pushed onto other targets like fulla and zealos. We have like 50 or so potential damage, we can do whatever we want. You can attack Fulla yourself with your 7 damage The 11/11 beast+WBG's 4/4 beast can instantly kill Grey The rest of the people can attack you+ Zealos for instance Also there would be a 8/8 without use....don't know who that one will attack though. I don't know if it would be a good idea to let everybody "do whatever they want" because I can see everybody attacking everybody this turn (like you attacking Fulla, Zealos attacking S&B, S&B attacking Zealos, Nova attacking you, etc). I guess that wouldn't be that bad ("suspicious" people get their HP reduced), but it leaves very little room to coordination. Once again, stop using connections.
Grey's flip has nothing to do with my read on fulla Well, I generally use connections, not only just because of their interaction in the thread but mostly to see the general "strategy" scum have; and I could see the "strategy" in a Grey+Fulla scumteam (Grey "gives up" while Fulla lays low and survives). Nothing definitive though. That's what made me think you+Grey were very unlikely be scum together for instance I think we should aim for killing one person and seeing how they flip. This damage dispencing plan seems like a really easy way to hand the victory to either alignment. It seems like a lot of risk
I'm 100% with mattchew here. We want some confirmation.
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Well I'll be dead tomorrow so I want to make the most out of it today (i.e killing/weakening scum as much as possible)
Although I think you guys can handle this alright afterwards.
Also I'm still not sure how to use my Spellbomb and shit before I die....maybe I just don't use it at all? :/
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On July 03 2012 04:54 Oberyn wrote:
Well I'll be dead tomorrow so I want to make the most out of it today (i.e killing/weakening scum as much as possible)
Although I think you guys can handle this alright afterwards.
Also I'm still not sure how to use my Spellbomb and shit before I die....maybe I just don't use it at all? :/
I understand your sentiments but do you really think its in town's best interest to take so many others with you?
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On July 03 2012 05:09 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 04:54 Oberyn wrote:
Well I'll be dead tomorrow so I want to make the most out of it today (i.e killing/weakening scum as much as possible)
Although I think you guys can handle this alright afterwards.
Also I'm still not sure how to use my Spellbomb and shit before I die....maybe I just don't use it at all? :/ I understand your sentiments but do you really think its in town's best interest to take so many others with you?
The thing is that I don't want us to drag this along too much and give scum more time to attack townies with their beast (and give them more time so their beast gets more powerful).
Right now the beast is 12/1, in 4 turns it will be 20/1 and able to kill ANYBODY, hell even in 2-3 turns it will be able to kill most people (specially if people keep playing those "Pay 1 life" abilities). The more we drag this the more chances scum will be able to kill townies, and it will be more difficult killing the remaining scum/s in late game when there are few townies remaining without much power.
Think of it this way, imagine Were, Prome and Nova are all confirmed town and never attacked by anyone (just an example). One could assume the Mafia KP Beast will start attacking them and killing them one by one. So it would take 2 turns to kill Nova (for instance), 2 turns to kill Prome, and 1 turn to kill WBG.
If scum only attack them, wouldn't it make sense to try and kill scum as fast as we can so we don't end up with less and less townies each time?
For instance, if we are sure Fulla is scum later in the game, it may take you guys 2 turns to kill him (meaning scum would kill 1 of WBG/Nova/Prome), but if we weaken him now it would only take you guys 1 turn.
You may say "but if we are wrong we'll kill townies faster, maybe making scum win automatically by having numbers equal to our own". The thing is that (again using the example that Were, Prome and Nova re confirmed town) those 3, or at least 1-2 will still be alive, which they wouldn't have if we took more time to kill people, so actually we make scum wait more to win since we have more townies alive that would be dead (by the Mafia Beast) if we waited more.
(damn that was long  )
lol speaking about it:
What is scum's win condition actually?
Because, if for instance there are 2 scum and 2 townies remaining....if the 2 townies have 5 10/10 creatures each then the townies can easily kill both scum in 1 turn (for instance), meaning that even if "scum equal town" town can still win.
Same if there are 2 scum with 5 HP for instance and 1 townie with 20 HP and 2 5/5 creatures and enough creatures to block mafia's attacks. If the Mafia KP doesn't have 20 power....then the townie can kill both scum before they kill him
So I guess this game will play out until scum kill ALL townies then?
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I'm a bit shocked how I'm suddenly being hounded.
I say stick with Greymist for now, he's the most suspicious and he suspects Strong/Matt himself, whatever he flips it will offer the most clues.
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@Matt since you've started to get suspicion, you've started to heavily start accusing me....
Are you scared if Grey flips town you'll be considered scum? Building suspicion would be wise and if you get me and Zeal killed and you are scum with someone else, you've practically won.
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Can't edit above - Building suspicion = Building suspicion ON me
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EPT
