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Yeah Vivax looks to be trying to push the big names who he knows wont get lynched (VE, Acro, Marv) all during day 1. His first post also agrees with BM completely when no one else was looking at him.
I am completely behind a Vivax lynch.
VE and Acro what are your thoughts on Twelve
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@ Acro
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344514¤tpage=51#1010
The answer is already in your post.
More specifically in the part where I post 12 hours before deadline.
how do you defend a guy and then vote for him 3 minutes later.
I didn't defend mK in that part like you say.
I mentioned three points that were used against mK at that moment, and said that only one point gave me a reason to vote him at that point. It was the point regarding his post content.
I was sceptic of the kenpachi rule ET and NoSmurfHere were promoting at the time and gave my own reason besides that policy to vote for him.
I'm kind of changing my opinion regarding him after writing this. Mainly because of point 1 .I still think that point 2 and 3 wouldn't be enough for me to vote for him. But 1 is a good argument to vote for him.
Sorry if I don't have as much faith in the kenpachi rule as you do, but I didn't see it successfully in action through multiple games, and I also see the downsides.
A scum me would have simply agreed with the kenpachi rule and voted for him.
Nothing more easy than hiding behind a policy for the vote, not start questioning it.
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Vivax: If he is scum I'd only lean to about 65% sure. I cant wrap my head around why a scum would go through the trouble of trying to lynch both of these guys as well. He clearly thought the Fox lynch was bad before the lynch, but didn't as much effort into preventing than continuing his VE and Acro campaign. Just the fact that he really softly opposed the Fox lynch would make me suspicious. The marv case was bad outright and his BM and BKE bussing scheme is wrong. If any can convince why a scum makes a move to kill two very experienced players I'll consider changing my vote.
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On July 04 2012 01:28 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Vivax: If he is scum I'd only lean to about 65% sure. I cant wrap my head around why a scum would go through the trouble of trying to lynch both of these guys as well. He clearly thought the Fox lynch was bad before the lynch, but didn't as much effort into preventing than continuing his VE and Acro campaign. Just the fact that he really softly opposed the Fox lynch would make me suspicious. The marv case was bad outright and his BM and BKE bussing scheme is wrong. If any can convince why a scum makes a move to kill two very experienced players I'll consider changing my vote.
1. Tell me how you differentiate between a soft and a hard defense.I'll proceed to quote myself and show you how I defended FT  .
2. Just the fact that I really 'softly' opposed the mislynch of a townie makes me suspicious. Note how you use the term softly to play down the defense.
Marv failed with two reads and had the habit to post 1-2-liners, also he offended me instead of answering questions, so I had good reason to think he was a disrupting scum player.
BKE:
If any can convince why a scum makes a move to kill two very experienced players
Wat.
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On July 04 2012 01:28 BroodKingEXE wrote:
The marv case was bad outright and his BM and BKE bussing scheme is wrong.
Why is the BM bussing scheme wrong? BM asked town to lynch Acrofales if you flipped scum. There's some knowledge in that. And at the time he posted that, the mK case wasn't out yet to save your ass, he had good reasons to believe you'd gonna get killed and tried to save some of his cred he'd have lost for defending you before.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
I don't think Vivax is scum. His play is bad (no offense intended) but I already mislynched him once for that and he is at least to me playing to his townmeta. It is confusing, not always coherent logically but it is his townplay.
I am much more willing to lynch hyaach.
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Firstly Im town. Secondly at the time how many people thought BM was town? Bussing a scum is only effective if you are innocent already, by that time most of the town would have been up for a BM lynch if I didn't go through. The only thing that attempt would have done was get both of us lynched.
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BKE,since you say you're town, would you mind giving me your opinions on NoSmurfHere, austinmcc and twelve?
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Uh oh...NSH not scumhunting anymooore!
NSH comment on my Vivax vote. I unvoted your candidate and posted a case on another player...your opinion would be appriciated.
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On July 03 2012 22:05 Acrofales wrote:Okay. Lets talk about Vivax. Here's my case from last night: + Show Spoiler [full post] +On July 02 2012 17:41 Acrofales wrote:Marvellosity, why you no lead me to scum? I disagree with drwiggl3s. He seems to be implying that everybody should've voted for BKE, because the lynch was lead off him by scum. Clearly a possibility, but as the day went on I was also getting townier vibes about BKE, so it could just be townies realizing that lynching BKE was a bad idea when push came to shove. The choice between mK and foxtrotter is still pretty null in my book. Marvellosity made a case against foxtrotter for being a hypocrit. ET made a case against mK for kenpachi rule. Other than these two things both were lurkers. I ended up sheeping marvellosity because I liked his case a bit more. Turns out that was wrong. + Show Spoiler [votecount] +
mKmKmK - 6
rastaban
Kurumi
Vivax
austinmcc
Foxtrotter
grush57
BroodKingEXE - 6
Katina
ShiaoPi
drwiggl3s
Bill Murray
Mandalor
layabout
casualman - 2
BroodKingEXE
casualman
Foxtrotter - 11
Marvellosity
Mattchew
Acrofales
EchelonTee
s0Lstice
Hyaach
VisceraEyes
MajuGarzett
NoSmurfHere
Twelve
ghost_403
Mandalor - 1
Adam4167
No vote: mKmKmK
There's a few things I want to draw from the votecount. The first is that mK never even showed up to vote, so he should get modkilled or replaced. I don't think it's worth discussing him until one of those things happens. Inactives are null, although I have a meta-argument that if the host puts in a lot of work to find a replacement for an inactive, he is probably scum. It has worked in Holy Roman (it took Caller/Toad/blubb a lot of effort to replace Vaderseven; he was scum) and in Game of Thrones (it took Curu a LOT of effort to replace Gumshoe; also was scum). 2 is a pretty shitty sample size for statistics, but it's worth remembering. The second is that I was kinda expecting casualman to switch his vote at some point during the day, but he never did, not even when the lynch was equally balanced between 3 targets. That goes beyond the earlier simple trolling to being full-blown retarded. If someone would do us the favour of shooting him tonight so we don't have to worry about him tomorrow, that'd be great.
grush: I asked you earlier who you wanted to lynch. I am unsatisfied with: + Show Spoiler [suspicious of casualman] +On July 02 2012 01:57 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 01:49 layabout wrote:Current Votes: + Show Spoiler +
(Top: most recent Bottom: least recent)
VisceraEyes ##Vote: BillMurray
austinmcc ##Vote mKmKmK
Vivax ##Vote mKmKmK
Vivax ##Vote Mandalor
Kurumi ##vote mKmKmK
EchelonTee ##vote mKmKmK
Hyaach ##vote mKmKmK
s0Lstice ##Vote: Katina
Adam4167 ##Vote: Mandalor
Mandalor ##vote: BroodKingEXE
MajuGarzett ##Vote: NoSmurfHere
Twelve ##vote: BroodKingEXE
Bill Murray ##vote: BroodKingeXxe
casualman ##Vote: casualman
drwiggl3s ##Vote: BroodKingEXE
ShiaoPi ##vote: BroodKingEXE
rastaban ##vote mKmKmK
BroodKingEXE ##Vote: casualman
VisceraEyes ##Vote: BroodKingEXE
Bill Murray ##Vote Acrofales
Acrofales ##vote BillMurray
Mattchew ##vote casualman
casualman ##Vote BroodKingEXE
Bill Murray ##Vote: VE
Katina ##Vote BroodKingEXE
NoSmurfHere ##vote mKmKmK
VisceraEyes ##Vote: VisceraEyes
votecount:
mKmKmK (7)
austinmcc
Vivax
Kurumi
EchelonTee
Hyaach
NoSmurfHere
rastaban
BroodkingEXE (6)
Katina
ShiaoPi
drwiggl3s
Bill Murray
Twelve
mandalor
Casualman (3)
Casualman
BrodkingEXE
Mattchew
BillMurray (2)
VisceraEyes
Acrofales
Mandalor (1)
Adam4167
NoSmurfHere (1)
MajuGarzett
Katina (1)
s0Lstice
As a member of our great (circus) town it is very important that you put effort and time into your vote. It increases your chance of winning. It is expected of town. It is not very difficult for town. It is benfiacial for town. It is risky for mafia. The more opinions mafia give and the more stances mafia have to take, the more likely they are to give themselves away. Avoiding putting in time and effort in voting is beneficial to mafia. With that in mind, why on earth are VisceraEyes and Acrofales throwing away their votes. Both players are known for domineering and leading threads for better or worse and it is surprising that they are happy to cast votes that will be of little consequence. These players: + Show Spoiler +Katina
NoSmurfHere
Mattchew
Acrofales
Voted very early on and have not changed their votws. I am concerned that so many players are content to leave their votes like this when you consider the huge difference in the information available when they voted to the information available now. Casualman voted for himself. Either he is a townie that is playing to screw with us or he is mafia plaing to screw with us. We should kill Casualman. If we allow players to do that then we will be dealing with nonsense all game and once all of the active players are killed off our lurking brethren will see a bunch of rubbish get confused and lose. I still think we should kill Kurumi but he is at least half playing the game. ##Vote Casualman I have to agree. Atleast BM isn't going full retard like casualman. Casualman doesn't want to play and is just being plain stupid. Plus, he is by far playing the most scummiest so far. On July 02 2012 04:05 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 04:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:Your two posts on me: On June 30 2012 15:31 Twelve wrote:
My initial thoughts are to be suspicious of Kurumi. He takes three posts to say very little, seeming to want to contribute without actually offering anything. I also agree that BroodKingEXE is suspicious for the same reasons, a long ranting post on a topic that he didn't seemed concerned about before the game started. I'm going to read the thread a bit more... just my initial thoughts. Does it matter what I was interested in before game? I wasn't scum or townie before the game, so it wouldn't reveal anything about more alignment. On July 01 2012 08:24 Twelve wrote:On July 01 2012 08:12 BroodKingEXE wrote:
I think a vote count would be appropriate:
Votecount:
VisceraEyes: VisceraEyes ,Bill Murray
mKmKmK(2): NoSmurfHere, rastaban
BroodKEXE(4): Katina, casualman, VisceraEyes , ShiaoPi, Drwiggl3s
Bill Murray(1): Acrofales
Acrofales(1): Bill Murray
casualman(3): Mattchew, BroodKingEXE, casualman This reads as scum to me. Reorganizing public information and posting it as a friendly town helping message, even though in reality it offers very little information. I hear "Hey guys, scum would never post a vote count where they are losing! Clearly BKE just has the town's best interests at heart!" On a side note though, what reasons would there be for casualman to vote for himself if he were town? Your going to vote for me for posting a votecount? Funny how you ninja vote right after it, maybe you saw the count and thought you could get away with it while everyone was using it to get a gauge on the accusations. A vote is a powerful indicator of whether you are scum or not, a townie doesn't need to hide it as it reveals their townieness. Y u so scum bro Into voting for mK with no prior reasoning. Now given the pre-game banter you seem to be one of those players who looks scummy in all his games, regardless of actual alignment (like bluelightz and Zealos). I know you looked scummy in Space Station and were town, because I blew you up for looking scummy (or rather, placed a bomb on you and scum shot me). However, this looks terrible. I want to know what the rest of the thread thinks of this. It's night, so plenty of time to discuss.
Vivax: I like you for a D2 lynch too. Every single case you've made has been some kind of wonky connection-based case with terrible premises. I'm not sure what s0lstice sees in you that's townie, but I'm not getting it. 1. You are not reading the thread properly despite being told multiple times by multiple people (myself, VE and marvellosity so far) to read the thread. 2. You are throwing suspicion around on people without giving a real reason (myself, VE, Shiao and marvellosity). While you built a dodgy connection case on VE and me based on the premise that BM is town (can we please lynch and/or shoot BM?!), your "suspicion" of marvellosity is that he is shutting down discussion at a time he was GENERATING discussion. You also don't like ShiaoPi for some unspecified reasons. You are therefore casting suspicion without real reason on: - Me: confirmed town
- VE: slight town read
- Marvellosity: quite a strong town read, despite the bad lynch. The way he brought the lynch together was imho very townie.
- ShiaoPi: slight town read
I'd be happy to look into any of the 3 players if you tell me what you think is scummy, but saying "you're shutting down discussion when he isn't" or "I don't like your posts" is trying to take away momentum from town players and creating a bad atmosphere. That is scum agenda point number 1. 3. Your scumhunting is limited to making connection cases. The only case that isn't a connection case is suggesting grush for a lurker lynch. I say above what I think about grush. However, it's a pretty damned easy case to make. It was also at a time to create MORE chaos in a thread that was consolidating on a lynch (however badly that turned out). Adding candidates 1 hour before the deadline is a terrible idea unless someone suddenly stands out as obvious scum. Grush didn't do that, it was just another lurker to be added to the list. Why? To make the votecount even more dispersed and less useful than it is now? For somoene who likes connection cases this is fucking weird: the strongest connnections are votes. 4. Your voting behaviour. You said Mandalor was scum. I haven't even seen you give a good reason why on that one either, but regardless of that, somehow your ninjavote ended up on mK: Note the timestamp: 12 hours before the deadline. A look in his filter gives us this post: + Show Spoiler [Vivax defending mK] +On July 01 2012 21:42 Vivax wrote:
Ok, ET. Looks like I'll have to do the talk for you: "Why the hell is Vivax using that argument when I've already posted 2 others for a scum mK being an option?Does he want to say that the policy is the only reason I'm doing that?"
1. The scum claim you adressed.
I guess with it you meant that he says VE used good arguments against BKE, but then considers him to be scummy for one line of text than really says nothing about VE's alignment.
Then he suspects kurumi for 'mafiavibes', that's all.
I agree that his arguments are terrible and contain zero information. From this point of view he's actually scummy or bad townie.
2. His low activity after that post
I don't know how experienced it is, but that behavior would also fit a blue role.
That would also be the argument made by you I consider to not be decisive, yet you treat this as a strong argument against him.
3. His wishywashy post regarding the VT roleclaim.
A blue role could react like that, too.
___________________________________________
I'm kind of changing my opinion regarding him after writing this. Mainly because of point 1 .I still think that point 2 and 3 wouldn't be enough for me to vote for him. But 1 is a good argument to vote for him.
Sorry if I don't have as much faith in the kenpachi rule as you do, but I didn't see it successfully in action through multiple games, and I also see the downsides. So, you are unconvinced by ET's case on mK, there is absolutely NO reason to consolidate votes, yet 3 minutes later you ninjavote for mK's death. I have to say, I don't understand this move from a scum PoV either, but I understand it LESS from a town PoV: how do you defend a guy and then vote for him 3 minutes later. Best fitting explanation I can think of: you're noob scum naïvely bussing your teammate and thinking you can salvage it with some chaos and a D2 BKE lynch (he made a post trying to connect mK and BKE 10 minutes after his vote). In closing, you're scum Most of that still stands. However, the last part is clearly not true. Show nested quote +4. Your voting behaviour. You said Mandalor was scum. I haven't even seen you give a good reason why on that one either, but regardless of that, somehow your ninjavote ended up on mK: On July 01 2012 21:45 Vivax wrote:
##unvote
##Vote mKmKmK Note the timestamp: 12 hours before the deadline. A look in his filter gives us this post: + Show Spoiler [Vivax defending mK] +On July 01 2012 21:42 Vivax wrote:
Ok, ET. Looks like I'll have to do the talk for you: "Why the hell is Vivax using that argument when I've already posted 2 others for a scum mK being an option?Does he want to say that the policy is the only reason I'm doing that?"
1. The scum claim you adressed.
I guess with it you meant that he says VE used good arguments against BKE, but then considers him to be scummy for one line of text than really says nothing about VE's alignment.
Then he suspects kurumi for 'mafiavibes', that's all.
I agree that his arguments are terrible and contain zero information. From this point of view he's actually scummy or bad townie.
2. His low activity after that post
I don't know how experienced it is, but that behavior would also fit a blue role.
That would also be the argument made by you I consider to not be decisive, yet you treat this as a strong argument against him.
3. His wishywashy post regarding the VT roleclaim.
A blue role could react like that, too.
___________________________________________
I'm kind of changing my opinion regarding him after writing this. Mainly because of point 1 .I still think that point 2 and 3 wouldn't be enough for me to vote for him. But 1 is a good argument to vote for him.
Sorry if I don't have as much faith in the kenpachi rule as you do, but I didn't see it successfully in action through multiple games, and I also see the downsides. So, you are unconvinced by ET's case on mK, there is absolutely NO reason to consolidate votes, yet 3 minutes later you ninjavote for mK's death. I have to say, I don't understand this move from a scum PoV either, but I understand it LESS from a town PoV: how do you defend a guy and then vote for him 3 minutes later. Best fitting explanation I can think of: you're noob scum naïvely bussing your teammate and thinking you can salvage it with some chaos and a D2 BKE lynch (he made a post trying to connect mK and BKE 10 minutes after his vote). Vivax, I am trying to puzzle out how this works from scum OR town. We now know mK is town. I cannot think of an explanation for how your vote ended up on him after defending him, regardless of your alignment. I want you to explain your thought process here to me, because the same happened slightly later again. + Show Spoiler [Vivax pre-votes marv] +On July 02 2012 18:49 Vivax wrote:Poor poor acrofales. Posting such a huge case and then he gets zero attention for it  I'll give you some: Get your things straight, thinking I'd be mafia is ridiculous.Let's string up people for the FT mislynch.I told you the cases against him were bullshit and more of a policy lynch than anything else. That said, marv, I don't see you drawing conclusions after his death, but you criticisized mine before his death for being premature. You contribute zero to town except for causing bandwagons, and your posts are numerous, but not helpful. I'll anticipate what I'm gonna do day2. ##Vote marvellosity Marv dies at the daypost and flips town. Now why would a scum Vivax bother with such a post and then shoot Marv in the face? Unless Marv was shot by some utterly insane vigi (I had him fairly clearly town in my spreadsheet), but then the NKs don't add up. Seems to me Marv was shot by scum (makes perfect sense, as an active townie-looking player with a good reputation), so how does a scum-Vivax make a case on Marv and then shoot him. These two actions don't make sense. The first one from either scum or town point of view, the second one from a scum point of view (from a town point of view it's just a really bad read). These make me unsure of Vivax as scum. However, the rest of the case still points to a scummy Vivax. Given Katina and Hyaach's behaviour (thanks for pointing that one out, also flew under my radar), I'm going to give Vivax the benefit of the doubt for now. @Vivax: I still want a better answer on the case than "lol, a stupid townie is burying your case under a pile of spam". I'm still not sure you're scum.
Acro you didn't mention my post on Vivax at all. We're talking about Vivax, right? Because I asked about him and I posted about him? Why not mention my post about him on the matter?
I expected NSH to ignore me, but you?!
My sadness...is complete.
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On July 04 2012 02:02 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Firstly Im town. Secondly at the time how many people thought BM was town? Bussing a scum is only effective if you are innocent already, by that time most of the town would have been up for a BM lynch if I didn't go through. The only thing that attempt would have done was get both of us lynched.
BM never had more than 2 votes at the same time on him
Firstly: That's no defense.
Secondly: Most people didn't post anything about BM at that time.
Regarding bussing: No, bussing a scum can successfully deflect attention from you if you've been suspected before.
Usually it should be quite vulnerable to WIFOM, but that post by BM is a bussing attempt with a scumslip as bonus and I don't see how he would have tried to use that post to his advantage as scum if not to bus you.
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On July 01 2012 16:13 Bill Murray wrote:
i dont like how adam went from saying "lets kill kurumi" to the next post he had voting mandalor
the BXE wagon is magnificent I dont like the hate towards it and when he dies we can lynch Acrofales
Seriously, it's so goddamn obvious.
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NSH: I agree with his old scum list (rasta and ghost were acting scummy at the time). I think he could contribute more in terms of them, as opposed to responding to posts by people not on the list. I'd say townie.
12: Mid level scum player, made a post before disapearing about how he was gonna get killed by the mafia. Said it about three times, could just be me but it sounds like he may have been trying to draw a Doctor. Im against thinking a blue would do this because its just a really obvious way to draw attetion. Mafia have more flexibility given they have five members left.
Austin: Need to read up on him his posting style's changed abit.
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Vivax your theory falls apart when you don't take into account the fact that BKE could possibly be town. You're simply not even accepting it as possible, when it is, totally, possible. We don't know what BKE's alignment is, so we can't know if BM was "certainly bussing". All we know is that BM is scum, and him attacking BKE actually speaks more in favor of BKE being town, so the fact that you're ignoring that as possible makes it clear that you're pushing an agenda with your posts.
Everyone needs to be voting for Vivax. It's the town thing to do.
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On July 04 2012 02:33 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 22:05 Acrofales wrote:Okay. Lets talk about Vivax. Here's my case from last night: + Show Spoiler [full post] +On July 02 2012 17:41 Acrofales wrote:Marvellosity, why you no lead me to scum? I disagree with drwiggl3s. He seems to be implying that everybody should've voted for BKE, because the lynch was lead off him by scum. Clearly a possibility, but as the day went on I was also getting townier vibes about BKE, so it could just be townies realizing that lynching BKE was a bad idea when push came to shove. The choice between mK and foxtrotter is still pretty null in my book. Marvellosity made a case against foxtrotter for being a hypocrit. ET made a case against mK for kenpachi rule. Other than these two things both were lurkers. I ended up sheeping marvellosity because I liked his case a bit more. Turns out that was wrong. + Show Spoiler [votecount] +
mKmKmK - 6
rastaban
Kurumi
Vivax
austinmcc
Foxtrotter
grush57
BroodKingEXE - 6
Katina
ShiaoPi
drwiggl3s
Bill Murray
Mandalor
layabout
casualman - 2
BroodKingEXE
casualman
Foxtrotter - 11
Marvellosity
Mattchew
Acrofales
EchelonTee
s0Lstice
Hyaach
VisceraEyes
MajuGarzett
NoSmurfHere
Twelve
ghost_403
Mandalor - 1
Adam4167
No vote: mKmKmK
There's a few things I want to draw from the votecount. The first is that mK never even showed up to vote, so he should get modkilled or replaced. I don't think it's worth discussing him until one of those things happens. Inactives are null, although I have a meta-argument that if the host puts in a lot of work to find a replacement for an inactive, he is probably scum. It has worked in Holy Roman (it took Caller/Toad/blubb a lot of effort to replace Vaderseven; he was scum) and in Game of Thrones (it took Curu a LOT of effort to replace Gumshoe; also was scum). 2 is a pretty shitty sample size for statistics, but it's worth remembering. The second is that I was kinda expecting casualman to switch his vote at some point during the day, but he never did, not even when the lynch was equally balanced between 3 targets. That goes beyond the earlier simple trolling to being full-blown retarded. If someone would do us the favour of shooting him tonight so we don't have to worry about him tomorrow, that'd be great.
grush: I asked you earlier who you wanted to lynch. I am unsatisfied with: + Show Spoiler [suspicious of casualman] +On July 02 2012 01:57 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 01:49 layabout wrote:Current Votes: + Show Spoiler +
(Top: most recent Bottom: least recent)
VisceraEyes ##Vote: BillMurray
austinmcc ##Vote mKmKmK
Vivax ##Vote mKmKmK
Vivax ##Vote Mandalor
Kurumi ##vote mKmKmK
EchelonTee ##vote mKmKmK
Hyaach ##vote mKmKmK
s0Lstice ##Vote: Katina
Adam4167 ##Vote: Mandalor
Mandalor ##vote: BroodKingEXE
MajuGarzett ##Vote: NoSmurfHere
Twelve ##vote: BroodKingEXE
Bill Murray ##vote: BroodKingeXxe
casualman ##Vote: casualman
drwiggl3s ##Vote: BroodKingEXE
ShiaoPi ##vote: BroodKingEXE
rastaban ##vote mKmKmK
BroodKingEXE ##Vote: casualman
VisceraEyes ##Vote: BroodKingEXE
Bill Murray ##Vote Acrofales
Acrofales ##vote BillMurray
Mattchew ##vote casualman
casualman ##Vote BroodKingEXE
Bill Murray ##Vote: VE
Katina ##Vote BroodKingEXE
NoSmurfHere ##vote mKmKmK
VisceraEyes ##Vote: VisceraEyes
votecount:
mKmKmK (7)
austinmcc
Vivax
Kurumi
EchelonTee
Hyaach
NoSmurfHere
rastaban
BroodkingEXE (6)
Katina
ShiaoPi
drwiggl3s
Bill Murray
Twelve
mandalor
Casualman (3)
Casualman
BrodkingEXE
Mattchew
BillMurray (2)
VisceraEyes
Acrofales
Mandalor (1)
Adam4167
NoSmurfHere (1)
MajuGarzett
Katina (1)
s0Lstice
As a member of our great (circus) town it is very important that you put effort and time into your vote. It increases your chance of winning. It is expected of town. It is not very difficult for town. It is benfiacial for town. It is risky for mafia. The more opinions mafia give and the more stances mafia have to take, the more likely they are to give themselves away. Avoiding putting in time and effort in voting is beneficial to mafia. With that in mind, why on earth are VisceraEyes and Acrofales throwing away their votes. Both players are known for domineering and leading threads for better or worse and it is surprising that they are happy to cast votes that will be of little consequence. These players: + Show Spoiler +Katina
NoSmurfHere
Mattchew
Acrofales
Voted very early on and have not changed their votws. I am concerned that so many players are content to leave their votes like this when you consider the huge difference in the information available when they voted to the information available now. Casualman voted for himself. Either he is a townie that is playing to screw with us or he is mafia plaing to screw with us. We should kill Casualman. If we allow players to do that then we will be dealing with nonsense all game and once all of the active players are killed off our lurking brethren will see a bunch of rubbish get confused and lose. I still think we should kill Kurumi but he is at least half playing the game. ##Vote Casualman I have to agree. Atleast BM isn't going full retard like casualman. Casualman doesn't want to play and is just being plain stupid. Plus, he is by far playing the most scummiest so far. On July 02 2012 04:05 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 04:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:Your two posts on me: On June 30 2012 15:31 Twelve wrote:
My initial thoughts are to be suspicious of Kurumi. He takes three posts to say very little, seeming to want to contribute without actually offering anything. I also agree that BroodKingEXE is suspicious for the same reasons, a long ranting post on a topic that he didn't seemed concerned about before the game started. I'm going to read the thread a bit more... just my initial thoughts. Does it matter what I was interested in before game? I wasn't scum or townie before the game, so it wouldn't reveal anything about more alignment. On July 01 2012 08:24 Twelve wrote:On July 01 2012 08:12 BroodKingEXE wrote:
I think a vote count would be appropriate:
Votecount:
VisceraEyes: VisceraEyes ,Bill Murray
mKmKmK(2): NoSmurfHere, rastaban
BroodKEXE(4): Katina, casualman, VisceraEyes , ShiaoPi, Drwiggl3s
Bill Murray(1): Acrofales
Acrofales(1): Bill Murray
casualman(3): Mattchew, BroodKingEXE, casualman This reads as scum to me. Reorganizing public information and posting it as a friendly town helping message, even though in reality it offers very little information. I hear "Hey guys, scum would never post a vote count where they are losing! Clearly BKE just has the town's best interests at heart!" On a side note though, what reasons would there be for casualman to vote for himself if he were town? Your going to vote for me for posting a votecount? Funny how you ninja vote right after it, maybe you saw the count and thought you could get away with it while everyone was using it to get a gauge on the accusations. A vote is a powerful indicator of whether you are scum or not, a townie doesn't need to hide it as it reveals their townieness. Y u so scum bro Into voting for mK with no prior reasoning. Now given the pre-game banter you seem to be one of those players who looks scummy in all his games, regardless of actual alignment (like bluelightz and Zealos). I know you looked scummy in Space Station and were town, because I blew you up for looking scummy (or rather, placed a bomb on you and scum shot me). However, this looks terrible. I want to know what the rest of the thread thinks of this. It's night, so plenty of time to discuss.
Vivax: I like you for a D2 lynch too. Every single case you've made has been some kind of wonky connection-based case with terrible premises. I'm not sure what s0lstice sees in you that's townie, but I'm not getting it. 1. You are not reading the thread properly despite being told multiple times by multiple people (myself, VE and marvellosity so far) to read the thread. 2. You are throwing suspicion around on people without giving a real reason (myself, VE, Shiao and marvellosity). While you built a dodgy connection case on VE and me based on the premise that BM is town (can we please lynch and/or shoot BM?!), your "suspicion" of marvellosity is that he is shutting down discussion at a time he was GENERATING discussion. You also don't like ShiaoPi for some unspecified reasons. You are therefore casting suspicion without real reason on: - Me: confirmed town
- VE: slight town read
- Marvellosity: quite a strong town read, despite the bad lynch. The way he brought the lynch together was imho very townie.
- ShiaoPi: slight town read
I'd be happy to look into any of the 3 players if you tell me what you think is scummy, but saying "you're shutting down discussion when he isn't" or "I don't like your posts" is trying to take away momentum from town players and creating a bad atmosphere. That is scum agenda point number 1. 3. Your scumhunting is limited to making connection cases. The only case that isn't a connection case is suggesting grush for a lurker lynch. I say above what I think about grush. However, it's a pretty damned easy case to make. It was also at a time to create MORE chaos in a thread that was consolidating on a lynch (however badly that turned out). Adding candidates 1 hour before the deadline is a terrible idea unless someone suddenly stands out as obvious scum. Grush didn't do that, it was just another lurker to be added to the list. Why? To make the votecount even more dispersed and less useful than it is now? For somoene who likes connection cases this is fucking weird: the strongest connnections are votes. 4. Your voting behaviour. You said Mandalor was scum. I haven't even seen you give a good reason why on that one either, but regardless of that, somehow your ninjavote ended up on mK: Note the timestamp: 12 hours before the deadline. A look in his filter gives us this post: + Show Spoiler [Vivax defending mK] +On July 01 2012 21:42 Vivax wrote:
Ok, ET. Looks like I'll have to do the talk for you: "Why the hell is Vivax using that argument when I've already posted 2 others for a scum mK being an option?Does he want to say that the policy is the only reason I'm doing that?"
1. The scum claim you adressed.
I guess with it you meant that he says VE used good arguments against BKE, but then considers him to be scummy for one line of text than really says nothing about VE's alignment.
Then he suspects kurumi for 'mafiavibes', that's all.
I agree that his arguments are terrible and contain zero information. From this point of view he's actually scummy or bad townie.
2. His low activity after that post
I don't know how experienced it is, but that behavior would also fit a blue role.
That would also be the argument made by you I consider to not be decisive, yet you treat this as a strong argument against him.
3. His wishywashy post regarding the VT roleclaim.
A blue role could react like that, too.
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I'm kind of changing my opinion regarding him after writing this. Mainly because of point 1 .I still think that point 2 and 3 wouldn't be enough for me to vote for him. But 1 is a good argument to vote for him.
Sorry if I don't have as much faith in the kenpachi rule as you do, but I didn't see it successfully in action through multiple games, and I also see the downsides. So, you are unconvinced by ET's case on mK, there is absolutely NO reason to consolidate votes, yet 3 minutes later you ninjavote for mK's death. I have to say, I don't understand this move from a scum PoV either, but I understand it LESS from a town PoV: how do you defend a guy and then vote for him 3 minutes later. Best fitting explanation I can think of: you're noob scum naïvely bussing your teammate and thinking you can salvage it with some chaos and a D2 BKE lynch (he made a post trying to connect mK and BKE 10 minutes after his vote). In closing, you're scum Most of that still stands. However, the last part is clearly not true. 4. Your voting behaviour. You said Mandalor was scum. I haven't even seen you give a good reason why on that one either, but regardless of that, somehow your ninjavote ended up on mK: On July 01 2012 21:45 Vivax wrote:
##unvote
##Vote mKmKmK Note the timestamp: 12 hours before the deadline. A look in his filter gives us this post: + Show Spoiler [Vivax defending mK] +On July 01 2012 21:42 Vivax wrote:
Ok, ET. Looks like I'll have to do the talk for you: "Why the hell is Vivax using that argument when I've already posted 2 others for a scum mK being an option?Does he want to say that the policy is the only reason I'm doing that?"
1. The scum claim you adressed.
I guess with it you meant that he says VE used good arguments against BKE, but then considers him to be scummy for one line of text than really says nothing about VE's alignment.
Then he suspects kurumi for 'mafiavibes', that's all.
I agree that his arguments are terrible and contain zero information. From this point of view he's actually scummy or bad townie.
2. His low activity after that post
I don't know how experienced it is, but that behavior would also fit a blue role.
That would also be the argument made by you I consider to not be decisive, yet you treat this as a strong argument against him.
3. His wishywashy post regarding the VT roleclaim.
A blue role could react like that, too.
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I'm kind of changing my opinion regarding him after writing this. Mainly because of point 1 .I still think that point 2 and 3 wouldn't be enough for me to vote for him. But 1 is a good argument to vote for him.
Sorry if I don't have as much faith in the kenpachi rule as you do, but I didn't see it successfully in action through multiple games, and I also see the downsides. So, you are unconvinced by ET's case on mK, there is absolutely NO reason to consolidate votes, yet 3 minutes later you ninjavote for mK's death. I have to say, I don't understand this move from a scum PoV either, but I understand it LESS from a town PoV: how do you defend a guy and then vote for him 3 minutes later. Best fitting explanation I can think of: you're noob scum naïvely bussing your teammate and thinking you can salvage it with some chaos and a D2 BKE lynch (he made a post trying to connect mK and BKE 10 minutes after his vote). Vivax, I am trying to puzzle out how this works from scum OR town. We now know mK is town. I cannot think of an explanation for how your vote ended up on him after defending him, regardless of your alignment. I want you to explain your thought process here to me, because the same happened slightly later again. + Show Spoiler [Vivax pre-votes marv] +On July 02 2012 18:49 Vivax wrote:Poor poor acrofales. Posting such a huge case and then he gets zero attention for it I'll give you some: Get your things straight, thinking I'd be mafia is ridiculous.Let's string up people for the FT mislynch.I told you the cases against him were bullshit and more of a policy lynch than anything else. That said, marv, I don't see you drawing conclusions after his death, but you criticisized mine before his death for being premature. You contribute zero to town except for causing bandwagons, and your posts are numerous, but not helpful. I'll anticipate what I'm gonna do day2. ##Vote marvellosity Marv dies at the daypost and flips town. Now why would a scum Vivax bother with such a post and then shoot Marv in the face? Unless Marv was shot by some utterly insane vigi (I had him fairly clearly town in my spreadsheet), but then the NKs don't add up. Seems to me Marv was shot by scum (makes perfect sense, as an active townie-looking player with a good reputation), so how does a scum-Vivax make a case on Marv and then shoot him. These two actions don't make sense. The first one from either scum or town point of view, the second one from a scum point of view (from a town point of view it's just a really bad read). These make me unsure of Vivax as scum. However, the rest of the case still points to a scummy Vivax. Given Katina and Hyaach's behaviour (thanks for pointing that one out, also flew under my radar), I'm going to give Vivax the benefit of the doubt for now. @Vivax: I still want a better answer on the case than "lol, a stupid townie is burying your case under a pile of spam". I'm still not sure you're scum. Acro you didn't mention my post on Vivax at all. We're talking about Vivax, right? Because I asked about him and I posted about him? Why not mention my post about him on the matter? I expected NSH to ignore me, but you?! My sadness...is complete.
Why did I need to mention your case? I read it, it made sense. Vivax has been doing some really completely illogical stuff. But s0lstice said he's really playing into his town meta. s0lstice flipped town, so it clearly wasn't scum defending each other.
I'm also still unsure how the nightly case on marvellosity fits into a scumplay where you shoot him. Maybe the scumteam is not playing together nicely or something, but it just feels weird.
He is using terrible logic and I am having a hard time deciding whether it's scum logic or Zentor logic.
I think the lynch should be between Vivax and Katina.
Hyaach and BKE are possible options too.
I have the feeling that BKE is starting to play, though. I like the last page of his filter a helluvalot more than the first 2 pages.
Hyaach is useless. His list was terrible, but it was so laughably terrible that he must have balls of steel to post such a list as scum. I have seen his scum play in Bastard 2 and there he flew under the radar until he came under pressure. Here he posted that terrible list once under pressure. It's hard to make that match in my mind.
Someone asked about Twelve. I will look at him now.
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Oh, and just in case it's not clear from my vote, I currently favour Katina over Vivax.
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Helped baddie clown. Tries to talk out of it. A baddie. Die.
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Hi guys, today is my birthday so I won't be around until later. I haven't read the thread yet I will do that as soon as I get home. Just thought I would let you guys know.
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A Katina lynch would be like a FT lynch. It's nothing but a low activity townie without deciding information regarding the guilt.An easy target.
I still get more townvibes from her. She calls out people with a firm opinion.
Only thing one could object is that she preferred a BKE lynch over a BM lynch. Everyone but the two voting for BM preferred some lynch over BM's lynch, so the objection is invalid.
I don't like the Katina bandwagon.
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On July 03 2012 22:41 Hyaach wrote:
I don't know man, i have a heavy reliance on page 1 and day/night post. I dont keep spreadsheets.
Hey Maju. Thoughts on nosmurfhere?
Don't really suspect him anymore. I know we're supposed to stop talking about the role pm's but its kinda hard to forget about it. If wiggles said he got a similar pm to smurf its unlikely that smurf was scum who posted that to seem more town like and randomly had another player who actually got a pm just saying role name.
I just wanted to respond to this quickly, I still have to catch up a bit.
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EPT
