EPTOn a more serious note, given that he's either lying scum OR actually a miller, there's no reason for a DT to check him-- whether he's lying or telling the truth the result is the same.
Emergency Mini Mafia! - Page 4
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On a more serious note, given that he's either lying scum OR actually a miller, there's no reason for a DT to check him-- whether he's lying or telling the truth the result is the same. | ||
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Navillus
United States1188 Posts
On his claim I thought about the Miller knowing their role thing before the roles went out and figured that it really probably is the right play to tell town now as miller, in fact if it was most other people in this game I would take that as a pretty strong tell that he is in fact miller. But VE... Well I just actually finished a game that he was in and I hope he doesn't take offense when I say that he made a pants on head crazy claim in that game, I don't think that indicates that he's playing crazily here but of all of the players in this game he is literally the first person I would name as someone with the stones to claim miller as scum right from the start. On that line I'll say any other millers should claim now, if we have more than even 2 I would get very suspicious. Also I think it makes sense that he's saying not to check him, if he's making this claim it's obviously because he'll flip red, whether it's because he's miller or scum, he has no reason to say it if he wouldn't so any check would be totally wasted on him. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On June 05 2012 07:43 Blazinghand wrote: Ah where would we be without a hilarious/bad VE claim? On a more serious note, given that he's either lying scum OR actually a miller, there's no reason for a DT to check him-- whether he's lying or telling the truth the result is the same. Thank you. So which camp are you in BH? Hilarious or Bad? Because I think this is probably the best way to handle Miller right now. | ||
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furerkip
United States439 Posts
On June 05 2012 07:40 VisceraEyes wrote: Pushing mafia objectives =/= being obvious scum friend, I don't know where you've been playing. Town should be keeping a super-close eye on me regardless of what I'm doing, exactly because of this claim. I'm not trying to "avoid examination", I'm trying to make the most of our DT checks. Are you saying that it would be beneficial to town somehow to "confirm" my claim by checking me only to lynch me later for me to flip exactly what I said I would? Is that what you're trying to achieve here? Having DT's actually check me? Because it seems like an awful waste to me, especially since your first reaction to the claim was "KILL IT!!!"...like, if all it's going to take is an off word or two to send me through the shredder, then why the hell WOULD a DT check me? Anyway, I'm open to suggestions as to how to handle it - I gave my suggestion. No actually, as a Miller, YOU DON'T FUCKING CLAIM. All you have to do as a Miller is seem as town-sided as possible to avoid inspection from cop, because in the end, the people most likely to get investigated will be people who are Mafia (just in general if we have a good cop). Okay, can I ask you something? Why would Miller claiming be good for the person claiming? In this game, where mafia is trying not to get killed, they would claim Miller. Additionally, Millers have the exact same power as Blues: nothing. They can only help in lynches. They seem aligned with mafia when under investigation, but that is only the balancing for the fact that mafia is outnumbered by town. So how the hell does it make any sense for you to claim Miller? And along with that, why would you claim Miller AND even state that your reads are more important that towns? | ||
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Navillus
United States1188 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On June 05 2012 07:45 VisceraEyes wrote: Thank you. So which camp are you in BH? Hilarious or Bad? Because I think this is probably the best way to handle Miller right now. If I'm a DT, I'm not going to check you. If I'm not a DT, I'm just going to ignore your claim for now and see whether or not you play like scum. You have a history of making claims at weird times as both town AND scum, so this doesn't tell me anything about your alignment. Your actions will. | ||
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
On the other hand, it's possible that he's mafia, that he's intelligent enough to know that somebody will investigate him, and that there is no framer or that he doesn't want the framer to be used to protect him. It's impossible to tell for now, but I think furerkip is being a bit rash in his decision. It's probably because he doesn't know of VE, as I would agree that the ordinary miller should probably stay quiet, act like town, and hope they aren't investigated. For now I'm thinking that he is actually the miller, because it would be a huge risk for a mafia and it would put them in the spotlight, but I agree that we should keep a close eye on him. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
Given furerkip's statement about how long VE's claim was, I decided to take a look at his previous claim in MTG Mafia to compare the length. On May 27 2012 08:04 VisceraEyes wrote: Cool. I'll be brief. I want you to lynch me if you PROMISE TO LYNCH BUGS NEXT. Everyone seems to think either Bugs or I am scum or that we both are. As such, if you guys have a handle on this outside the two of us, I prefer you just get us out of the way first so whoever is left is confirmed whatever. Please guys, no one is going to listen to anything I say at this point and I'm just a distraction. Remove it. Also I'm the Doctor, so if you don't lynch one of me or Bugs, I'm dead tonight anyway. Gg guys, sorry I allowed Bugs to mindfuck me so hard this game.  I had a null read on VE's claim at first because of the fact that both Millers and veteran mafia players should claim miller in a game where the miller is self aware, this does slightly push the case in favor of a mafia VE, but it's still a weak case. How VE will handle himself the rest of the game is going to be a lot more important. My concern however is that he shits up the thread regardless like he did in MTG Mafia where he tunneled WBG hard as town, and did the same as Toad as mafia, meaning that him tunneling someone isn't indicative of alignment. To be frank, I'm not sure how to read him. Why would Miller claiming be good for the person claiming? VE as a veteran is likely to get checked by a DT. By claiming early he prevents getting checked by a DT. We already know he would check red now regardless of whether he's lying or not, so a DT check is now useless. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Navillus
United States1188 Posts
Wait what? What does 1 mislynch we can use on retarded townies mean? You should always always be lynching for scum. | ||
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furerkip
United States439 Posts
On June 05 2012 07:44 Navillus wrote: Wait what? What does 1 mislynch we can use on retarded townies mean? You should always always be lynching for scum. On his claim I thought about the Miller knowing their role thing before the roles went out and figured that it really probably is the right play to tell town now as miller, in fact if it was most other people in this game I would take that as a pretty strong tell that he is in fact miller. But VE... Well I just actually finished a game that he was in and I hope he doesn't take offense when I say that he made a pants on head crazy claim in that game, I don't think that indicates that he's playing crazily here but of all of the players in this game he is literally the first person I would name as someone with the stones to claim miller as scum right from the start. On that line I'll say any other millers should claim now, if we have more than even 2 I would get very suspicious. Also I think it makes sense that he's saying not to check him, if he's making this claim it's obviously because he'll flip red, whether it's because he's miller or scum, he has no reason to say it if he wouldn't so any check would be totally wasted on him. If we lynch retarded towns who are scumslipping left and right but aren't even scum, we avoid situations on 3 way lynches where they just tunnel ANYONE or we accidentally lynch them because there is just so much evidence to kill them in a 3way lynch. Believe me, if there are retarded town, they won't die at night; mafia will keep them alive so they can have more of a chance in a lynch or lose situation because retarded towns are stupid. That's just proper game sense. If we use lynches to kill retarded town, then we avoid situations like that in the end game. "Also I think it makes sense that he's saying not to check him, if he's making this claim it's obviously because he'll flip red, whether it's because he's miller or scum, he has no reason to say it if he wouldn't so any check would be totally wasted on him." The real problem that this is is that he has claimed Miller and he is using correct reasoning from a STUPID premise (he is miller). In fact, if he turns Miller upon a lynch, then wouldn't that help us? Cop's reports can be trusted to a tee. If he flips Mafia, we just got brang down 1 mafia. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On June 05 2012 07:58 furerkip wrote: In fact, if he turns Miller upon a lynch, then wouldn't that help us? Cop's reports can be trusted to a tee. 1) no, if he turns miller on a lynch, we just lynched a townie, which is bad. 2) On June 02 2012 06:23 wherebugsgo wrote: Godfather + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] + Over the years, you've gone by a number of different names. Al Capone, Dick Cheney, Julius Caesar, Elmo, and Martha Stewart all come to mind. Now, however, you want to just retire. In order to do so, though, you must first kill everyone who is not part of your family, because you are highly allergic to non-related people. They make you sick. At your disposal is your uncanny ability to appear as anything you wish. As such you can choose to appear "innocent" to all investigations, if you so wish. By night one you must decide whether you want to mask yourself to investigations. You may also communicate privately with your family member(s) name(s) here in any manner you wish. A QT has been provided at (link here) for your convenience. Framer + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] + blahblahblah standard scum fluff here you win when you outnumber town your teammates are here and you have a QT here, you may target one person per night, causing them to display the opposite alignment to any cops who choose to investigate them for that night only. You may not target yourself. Third Party Roles Serial Killer + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] + You crazy. And probably illiterate. You like feet. Since it doesn't matter what I tell you, just kill everything. You win if you live and no one else does. You can choose to appear innocent to all checks or have the ability to survive one KP once. You can kill one person every night, but you don't have to. | ||
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furerkip
United States439 Posts
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MrZentor
United States1648 Posts
The question is whether he's mafia or a miller. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On June 05 2012 07:58 furerkip wrote: If we lynch retarded towns who are scumslipping left and right but aren't even scum, we avoid situations on 3 way lynches where they just tunnel ANYONE or we accidentally lynch them because there is just so much evidence to kill them in a 3way lynch. Believe me, if there are retarded town, they won't die at night; mafia will keep them alive so they can have more of a chance in a lynch or lose situation because retarded towns are stupid. That's just proper game sense. If we use lynches to kill retarded town, then we avoid situations like that in the end game. No, we should always lynch the strongest scum suspects because anything else gives scum the possibility of a free ride just riding on someone who they can prove to be retarded. By just lynching people we think are scum they have to put their hand in the fire to try and prove someone else is scum. Scum doesn't have to lie to get a retarded townie lynched; they just point out he's acting retarded. A town atmosphere where lynching bad players is acceptable is horrible for town for that very reason. "Also I think it makes sense that he's saying not to check him, if he's making this claim it's obviously because he'll flip red, whether it's because he's miller or scum, he has no reason to say it if he wouldn't so any check would be totally wasted on him." The real problem that this is is that he has claimed Miller and he is using correct reasoning from a STUPID premise (he is miller). In fact, if he turns Miller upon a lynch, then wouldn't that help us? Cop's reports can be trusted to a tee. If he flips Mafia, we just got brang down 1 mafia. We don't know how many millers there are. We don't know if Mafia has a framer or not. We don't know if there's a godfather or not. In NO way is VE flipping miller on a lynch good for town. | ||
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Navillus
United States1188 Posts
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furerkip
United States439 Posts
On June 05 2012 08:00 Blazinghand wrote: 1) no, if he turns miller on a lynch, we just lynched a townie, which is bad. 2) That didn't make any sense, Serial Killers and Godfathers choose to be innocent; if he's a mafia he'll be framer or goon. Lynching townies is game ending on lynch or lose situations. Lynching bad townies on ML is actually okay in my experience. Makes for better 3-way lynches. As for the framer part, you have a good point. Anyways, it seems no one agrees with me, which makes me feel like I'm tunneling, but my FoS is still VE. I'll leave it at that, and won't press it, until I see another scumslip from him. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On June 05 2012 08:07 furerkip wrote: That didn't make any sense, Serial Killers and Godfathers choose to be innocent; if he's a mafia he'll be framer or goon. Lynching townies is game ending on lynch or lose situations. Lynching bad townies on ML is actually okay in my experience. Makes for better 3-way lynches. As for the framer part, you have a good point. Anyways, it seems no one agrees with me, which makes me feel like I'm tunneling, but my FoS is still VE. I'll leave it at that, and won't press it, until I see another scumslip from him. ' *whoosh* ^-- the sound of my quote going over your head. Let me try this again, maybe you'll understand this time. On June 05 2012 07:58 furerkip wrote: In fact, if he turns Miller upon a lynch, then wouldn't that help us? Cop's reports can be trusted to a tee. Emphasis mine. On June 02 2012 06:23 wherebugsgo wrote: Godfather + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] + Over the years, you've gone by a number of different names. Al Capone, Dick Cheney, Julius Caesar, Elmo, and Martha Stewart all come to mind. Now, however, you want to just retire. In order to do so, though, you must first kill everyone who is not part of your family, because you are highly allergic to non-related people. They make you sick. At your disposal is your uncanny ability to appear as anything you wish. As such you can choose to appear "innocent" to all investigations, if you so wish. By night one you must decide whether you want to mask yourself to investigations. You may also communicate privately with your family member(s) name(s) here in any manner you wish. A QT has been provided at (link here) for your convenience. Framer + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] + blahblahblah standard scum fluff here you win when you outnumber town your teammates are here and you have a QT here, you may target one person per night, causing them to display the opposite alignment to any cops who choose to investigate them for that night only. You may not target yourself. Third Party Roles Serial Killer + Show Spoiler [possible role PM] + You crazy. And probably illiterate. You like feet. Since it doesn't matter what I tell you, just kill everything. You win if you live and no one else does. You can choose to appear innocent to all checks or have the ability to survive one KP once. You can kill one person every night, but you don't have to. There's no need to get all moody about it. The point is, there are mechanics in this game to confuse cops other than miller. | ||
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furerkip
United States439 Posts
On June 05 2012 08:06 Navillus wrote: I still don't understand what you mean by "when we have a mislynch available" do you mean we should be fine lynching town in any situation that isn't mylo? Also as a general rule it doesn't matter how many lynches you have to spare, you should lynch the person who you think is most likely to be scum. When I say retarded town, I mean a townie that is scumslipping really hard like the post I was pushing at, which aptly fits your ideal of who to lynch. We should be okay with our lynches if the townie in question was scumslipping like no other. It's not okay to just randomly lynch townies with an ML, only townies who are scumslipping. If we identify those that are scumslipping and lynch them, we'll get the mafia, even if it means casualties on our side because mafia HAS to scumslip at some point, whether it be at the very end of the game or at the beginning. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
My #1 goal is lynching scum. I don't lynch townies, I don't lynch "for information" and I certainly don't aim specifically at "retarded town". If town players happen to die as we lynch down the list of scummiest players, so be it-- but we must try to avoid lynching town as much as possible. If we lynch town, don't be happy, be solemn. Maybe be mad at him for playing like scum. | ||
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