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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Upon reading his filter, I don't think Hiropro is scum. Apart from him picking GF, I see very little in his filter to justify lynching him.
Also, given they way discussion was going yesterday, I would not be surprised if mafia put 2 votes on RB and 1 vote on Framer, expecting it to be a runaway roleblocker win. I certainly expected everyone to pick roleblocker.
I don't want to lynch Zeph, and I'm willing to give risk more time. However I'm completely willing to lynch Navillus. In fact, I would not be surprised to see him flip scum.
Filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=340727&user=153628
Navillus is basically coasting Day 0 and doing the bare minimum to qualify as 'contributing'. His posts regarding poison and role selection are short and contain little original content, containing mainly obvious statements and corrections.
Since Day 1 began he has basically only questioned hiro slightly regarding his pick, and then posted this whopper:
On June 02 2012 07:09 Navillus wrote:
First I'll say for the sake of people knowing I'm not new, I've been playing on another site, I've played a few games here before, and if you go checking the other site (mafiascum) I have played as scum. With that out of the way...
WBG I think you're getting games confused, you wanted to lynch me in the OTHER game, not this one silly. More seriously one thing that I didn't realize before that game because I was used to games with a couple weeks to each day was that I have a fairly short period of possible activity in my days, I get home at 4-5pm edt and go to sleep at probably 12-1am so just in terms of the course of a day i won't be posting for more than 2/3s of it.
Also can we get a votecount
for now ##Vote: Zephirdd He has no posts that really push anyone, he's defensive, asks questions, points out what he apparently thinks is a scummy post then forgets about it and the poster (nuke's post). He basically doesn't look like he's trying to find scum in any of his posts, just that he wants to keep talking and look active. Now I would like to know from someone else because I don't remember anything about who's a vet here or not, how much has he played/how experienced is he, I could see his type of posting from someone new and not wanting to push people but I also thought I saw him referring to some older game so he doesn't sound new. (if he's like the most experienced person here and that was a really dumb question my bad)
I also am not a huge fan of the hiro lynch because I personally am bad at getting setup specific reads, but I also think it could be a legitimate slip, he wouldn't be my first choice (obviously that's zeph) but I also don't have a town read or something on him.
Big post, little content. It almost feels like this is navillus' token post for the day. He's fulfilled his obligation by making a big post, explained his vote, and can now disappear.
And by disappear, I mean he's actually still here and posting, just not contributing in the slightest.
In addition, his reasoning for not wanting to vote Hiro is bizarre at best, and quite scummy at worst.
This post is a big pile of nothing. Even his paragraph devoted to voting Zephirdd is actually only 2 sentences of reasoning, and a couple sentences discussing vets.
Navillus is NOT a lurker, and is attempting to 'contribute'. Yet his contributions are basically non existant, and really only amount to trying to fit in.
##Vote Navillus
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Ok people I'm willing to lynch in general right now: Hiro, Prplhz, Navillus
Hiro for the GF because I see no reason for a townie to vote GF when it was obvious it's either RB or framer. Yeah he said it wasn't obvious to him but it apperently was obvious to 11 other people..
Prplhz for his weird Navillus defense either way. The only thing that makes prplhz look good is him being so bold about the failure to vote.
Navillus is more of a plan B. He looks really bad but I have never played with him before and I really like lynching people I can judge because I played with them a lot., which is the reason I'd rather lynch into hiro or prplhz. Prplhz is not going to happen, hiro has a couple of votes but people apparently disagree with the GF thing and think there is a reason to vote GF for town...
So it probably comes down to hiro or Navillus
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Could you please explain a little more why you don't think Zephirdd is a good lynch, Radfield? Because I just don't see how he hinted at being blue and many of the same points that you bring up about Navillus are applicable to Zephirdd also.
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screw you rad. Stop posting what I am about to post all the time
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Blues always say stuff like "It's really not a good idea to lynch me." and "Trust me on this one." and "Town shouldn't lynch me."
I don't know how I manage to miss it all the time.
I'm most likely joining a Navilus lynch because I want a lynch Before, he was just being afk and his day0 actions didn't look too different from everybody else. I played with him before when he was town and afk, and when he came back he was really sorry about it (and wrote a huge post explaining exactly why he was afk). He doesn't look remorseful at all here, that post looks like he wants any sort of heat off of him and hopes that I'll just keep defending him 'cause that's what I did before.
Well I'm not gonna. I'm not all convinced about this but it's the best we can realistically achieve today I think.
##Unvote Sbrubbles
##Vote Navilus
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Toad since you are here can you flesh out the GF explanation?
On June 02 2012 06:52 slOosh wrote:
Why is Hiro voting GF an exclusively scummy thing to do and not something that a townie would do?
This is also my beef with Sbrubbles. If it was so obvious that it would be a vote split between RB and framer, then mafia would understand that there is no need to vote 1-1-1 because the whole point you vote 1-1-1 is to slip by lie detection, not to confuse town what role mafia has. Hiro voted GF. You are claiming that he is one of mafia who still chose to vote 1-1-1 knowing that RB and framer are the only plausible roles that they will get.
So why are you calling Hiro scum by saying that the situation would make a good scum play and therefore he must be scum?
I want to vote Sbrubbles for the same reason, as well as how much resistance its been facing. Seriously like 2 or 3 times people just avert discussion away from that dude.
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Radfield could you explain why you found Sbrubbles' filter ok looking?
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I really like lynching people I can judge because I played with them a lot., which is the reason I'd rather lynch into hiro
Are you lying town or lying scum.
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On June 02 2012 09:02 slOosh wrote:Toad since you are here can you flesh out the GF explanation? Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 06:52 slOosh wrote:
Why is Hiro voting GF an exclusively scummy thing to do and not something that a townie would do? This is also my beef with Sbrubbles. If it was so obvious that it would be a vote split between RB and framer, then mafia would understand that there is no need to vote 1-1-1 because the whole point you vote 1-1-1 is to slip by lie detection, not to confuse town what role mafia has. Hiro voted GF. You are claiming that he is one of mafia who still chose to vote 1-1-1 knowing that RB and framer are the only plausible roles that they will get. So why are you calling Hiro scum by saying that the situation would make a good scum play and therefore he must be scum?I want to vote Sbrubbles for the same reason, as well as how much resistance its been facing. Seriously like 2 or 3 times people just avert discussion away from that dude.
mostly because of what happened in PYP. It's still an ongoing game so I don't think I can talk about this in detail can I?
I already flipped in that game and the 2 people I'm thinking about flipped as well. Really don't know if I'm allowed to talk about it.
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On June 02 2012 09:04 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +
I really like lynching people I can judge because I played with them a lot., which is the reason I'd rather lynch into hiro
Are you lying town or lying scum.
you are hiroprotagonist, aren't you? I think it's the 4th game we're playing together.
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On June 02 2012 09:08 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 09:04 HiroPro wrote:
I really like lynching people I can judge because I played with them a lot., which is the reason I'd rather lynch into hiro
Are you lying town or lying scum. you are hiroprotagonist, aren't you? I think it's the 4th game we're playing together.
I am not hiroprotagonist and I have never played a game with you in my life. I have played in newbie VI, newbie newbie VIII, and I am in Magic right now.
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On June 02 2012 09:02 slOosh wrote:Toad since you are here can you flesh out the GF explanation? Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 06:52 slOosh wrote:
Why is Hiro voting GF an exclusively scummy thing to do and not something that a townie would do? This is also my beef with Sbrubbles. If it was so obvious that it would be a vote split between RB and framer, then mafia would understand that there is no need to vote 1-1-1 because the whole point you vote 1-1-1 is to slip by lie detection, not to confuse town what role mafia has. Hiro voted GF. You are claiming that he is one of mafia who still chose to vote 1-1-1 knowing that RB and framer are the only plausible roles that they will get. So why are you calling Hiro scum by saying that the situation would make a good scum play and therefore he must be scum?I want to vote Sbrubbles for the same reason, as well as how much resistance its been facing. Seriously like 2 or 3 times people just avert discussion away from that dude.
My problem isn't with him voting GF per se. It's this:
1) Votes for RB:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 31 2012 01:54 HiroPro wrote:I see what Toad and Radfield are saying about roleblocker. While I don't really feel that medic/vig against roleblocker is really much of an advantage for us, I can see the chaos that gf/framer can cause (There's no way we're getting innocent child). But I still think doing the encryption is a good idea. It can't hurt.
Show nested quote +
I'm pretty sure HiroPro is right in that we only have to use five poisons (12 10 8 6 4 assuming there's only one scum left by the end and no vig shots or medic blocks or no lynches). So let's not get carried away thinking we have to use majority +1 AND secret mafia vote when we can just use majority +1 and never bother with the secret mafia vote.
I'd prefer to be on the safe side and allocate six poisons. I don't want us to get in trouble just because we get a medic save. "Secret mafia vote" just isn't that dangerous; we can use that and "majority+1" day1/day2 (when those poisons are the weakest).
http://www.fourmilab.ch/javascrypt/javascrypt.htmlEncrypted Text: ZZZZZ IKQND HLAHA GFAXM GRHFX WHJBP HVVJW QKGDM FLUER ECNNB DMNAN
WUNJC IHLRU XHVXV AEKGV IHMJV XJAXL SCIPV EPLGD QQDLM PHKLT DXUIA
WUGKM VQIAP WMXFD DQCOJ BUMZZ YYYYY
2) Changes vote to GF, despite prefering Framer to Roleblocker:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 31 2012 08:15 HiroPro wrote:
And a new encrypted role:
[spoiler]
ZZZZZ GJNLL IRXGM PUBSF MPAHF NLNXV TBBGF JGJHL SJSPW RWJUT SNNDC
RCRGK ELJIK LROXB JVKHT FMJFW LIPWW IRBVP CQAJJ SUJCO PGQXN WRCCC
WVCEW AVUWJ WBMKE XCVHH EIIZZ YYYYY
[/spoiler]
+ Show Spoiler +[B]On June 01 2012 05:03 HiroPro wrote: Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 04:32 Sbrubbles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 01 2012 04:02 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 03:59 Zephirdd wrote:On June 01 2012 03:54 HiroPro wrote:
Because I felt that it's the weakest role, as it's only really effective against tracker (since gf can send kills himself). GF is immune to cop, but it doesn't protect the other members of the team and it can't introduce false positives. And since cop in this setup only has 1 shot, they will most likely be using it on someone who feel has a strong chance of being scum and a positive result is pretty much a confirmation then without framer. And of course it does nothing to any of the other roles. Great, and why didn't you provide these arguments during the day we had to actually choose GF? Why did you just let the framers/roleblockers go and not fight for your argument? Why keep it down and suddenly pop out with this? Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 11:52 HiroPro wrote:
All of the mafia roles are "anti-blue" roles and pretty useless otherwise. Now out of the three mafia roles, roleblocker looks to be the most powerful to me, as it is effective against all of the blue roles (except for innocent child, against which nothing is really good). Yes, the shots get refunded for vig and cop but in a game of this size, if you get roleblocked it's likely you won't even live the next night. For that reason, I think everyone should only vote for either godfather or framer and should not consider roleblocker.
Also, I don't think anyone should share exactly what role they are voting for, as mafia can than pick the blue roles that are worst against that role. So instead, when discussing what role to give mafia, I think everyone should just say the role that they don't want people to vote for (as it's too strong), still leaving open the possibility of two roles that they might choose between. A lot of mafia's power in this setup comes from them being able to pick roles for town that are easily countered by the role they receive. If they don't know exactly what role they are getting, they can't do this. I'm not buying this, Hiro. It was pretty clear from the thread that it was a discussion between framer and roleblocker. If you thought it was better to give mafia the framer, instead of roleblocker, why would you vote for the 3rd option? Also, why did/what made you change your mind about about your vote partway through D0? Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 04:39 Toadesstern wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 01 2012 03:36 HiroPro wrote:Key: KWUIR-KMBIV-QPGAY-CZTNK-BZSVT-ERHIS-YFULP-ZUYOK-GOKYP-TLBON-PIDIC-AAFXW Choose Godfather, I did.
Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 21:56 Sbrubbles wrote:The mafia already know the voting results, fyi. On May 29 2012 03:32 kitaman27 wrote:
The game will begin with a 24 hour selection phase. During this phase, the mafia team will select two roles for town. Additionally, the town will privately vote via PM on a single role for the mafia. If there is a tie, a random role from the tied roles will be selected. The selected roles will not be revealed, however the mafia team will be provided with the voting results.
Meh, I guess the encryption wasn't really that useful then. I thought it'd make it so that mafia have to guess on what votes to fake.
Kurumi: So what I get from your Radfield case is that you think he is scum because he tells everyone to pick Roleblocker even though it's a good role for scum? But I don't really follow that; while I think roleblocker is a strong role for mafia also, Radfield's argument was not bad. And I don't see this contradiction that you are talking about. That's got to be a joke. Godfather? Why?!?! It was clear the decision would be either RB or framer at some point and you chose to pick Godfather and completly wasted your vote? Someone explained (I think risk?) d0 that the only solution to not screw up as mafia is to pick 1-1-1. 1 guy votes RB, one guy votes framer, one guy picks GF because that way they add 1 to each thing and don't change a thing. So wtf? Maybe it was clear to you that the votes would only be between Framer and Roleblocker. It wasn't to me; not when the majority of people had not said what they were going to vote for. After Radfield made his argument on why Roleblocker was the best choice, I voted for roleblocker as I felt that Radfield made a good point on town gaining an advantage from knowing exactly what role mafia would get. I realized a little later though, that mafia would derive the exact same benefit if I followed Radfield's plan, so I changed my vote to the role that was worst for mafia in my opinion (godfather).
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On June 02 2012 09:10 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 09:08 Toadesstern wrote:On June 02 2012 09:04 HiroPro wrote:
I really like lynching people I can judge because I played with them a lot., which is the reason I'd rather lynch into hiro
Are you lying town or lying scum. you are hiroprotagonist, aren't you? I think it's the 4th game we're playing together. I am not hiroprotagonist and I have never played a game with you in my life. I have played in newbie VI, newbie newbie VIII, and I am in Magic right now.
LOL I assumed you're hiroProtagonist who shortened his nick to HiroPro.
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prplhz don't forget to vote in the voting thread here.
Sbrubbles your whole case is built on HiroPro's comprehension (or lack thereof) of the situation in D1, that the votes were split between roleblocker and framer. And yet other players have also expressed this
On June 01 2012 05:05 talismania wrote:
This thinking is why I voted roleblocker, and why I'm surprised so many people went with framer (unless all the framer votes are mafia fakes).
On June 02 2012 08:51 Radfield wrote:
Also, given they way discussion was going yesterday, I would not be surprised if mafia put 2 votes on RB and 1 vote on Framer, expecting it to be a runaway roleblocker win. I certainly expected everyone to pick roleblocker.
And Hiro has explained that he felt GF was the weakest role.
On June 01 2012 03:54 HiroPro wrote:
Because I felt that it's the weakest role, as it's only really effective against tracker (since gf can send kills himself). GF is immune to cop, but it doesn't protect the other members of the team and it can't introduce false positives. And since cop in this setup only has 1 shot, they will most likely be using it on someone who feel has a strong chance of being scum and a positive result is pretty much a confirmation then without framer. And of course it does nothing to any of the other roles.
Yet you continue to hold onto this notion that Hiro must be scum. I call nonsense.
##Vote: Sbrubbles
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On June 02 2012 09:17 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 09:10 HiroPro wrote:On June 02 2012 09:08 Toadesstern wrote:On June 02 2012 09:04 HiroPro wrote:
I really like lynching people I can judge because I played with them a lot., which is the reason I'd rather lynch into hiro
Are you lying town or lying scum. you are hiroprotagonist, aren't you? I think it's the 4th game we're playing together. I am not hiroprotagonist and I have never played a game with you in my life. I have played in newbie VI, newbie newbie VIII, and I am in Magic right now. LOL I assumed you're hiroProtagonist who shortened his nick to HiroPro.
ok if you are in your 3rd / 4th game right now with only 2 newbie games finished so far I take back what I said.
If that's the case I can believe the "to me it wasn't obvious it's either RB or GF", that in addition to everyone saying you look townish. Leaves the question why you didn't tell us your thoughts about the GF before the voting was done but again, with you only having finished 2 newbie games so far I buy that as well for now.
##vote Navillus
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I think I saw hiropro and hiro protagonist play in the same game a while ago, which confused the hell out of me. Since then I've assumed they're different people lol.
I'm glad we're killing navillus and not hiropro though, I didn't really see the argument for him being scum. Sure, voting godfather is scummy but other than that it didn't seem like a case existed on him.
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and also yes, hiropro's justification for godfather being weak is a very townie response to the accusations that him voting for GF is scummy.
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A little less than 2 hours to go till the deadline, votecount coming asap
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Bah ... I'm not sure anymore. Bugs/Toad/prlhz, why Navillus over risk.nuke?
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Nah - let's get some thoughts on Sbrubbles. Both Navillus and risk.nuke have shown apathy and disinterest in the game and both are worth a lurker lynch. I want thoughts on Sbrubbles.
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EPT
