EPTMagic: The Gathering Mini Mafia - Page 31
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Since my original post got buried: Acid, thoughts on Zealos and Tunkeg please, since you ignored talking about them earlier. Perhaps thoughts on froggy and VE as well. | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
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Navillus
United States1188 Posts
First things first: VE I'm getting worried about your constant attacks on WBG, I'll start by saying that I did think he was scummy at the beginning of the game and right now on a list from town to scum he would fall on the lower half for me, but nothing much has struck me as especially suspicious since the start. What's bad is that your case on him as of right now is entirely based on one post, this could be a problem for a couple of reasons. First is that as I mentioned he's seemed less scummy to me as the game went on and by using one post your focusing the argument on one thing he said a while ago. The second issue is that well individual posts can be strong indicators and what you've pointed out does look suspicious to me (your post has pushed WBG to the scummy side for me) it's still only one post and in what I've seen any town player can make a post that looks weird or scummy just because they were thinking weirdly at the moment or had a disconnect in what they meant and what they said, and I don't think you need to even go that far for that post which doesn't have any big behavioral tells, just some logic you dislike. Because of that I'd be really uncomfortable lynching him based on what you have right now and if there's more you should really bring it up. My biggest issue though is that you seem so positive that if you're not scum he must be scum and that one of you has to die by tomorrow, this is an attitude that could cause a LOT of problems if you are both town, obviously we can't know that but still you should be deciding to make cases based on play alone, anything else could be a big distraction or derailment especially when it's coming from the two big vets in the game. Obviously if you see a bunch of scummy things from WBG don't stop with this but Mattchew's right this is a really bad idea if it's gonna be based on one post and be because you can't imagine both of you are on the same team. Zealos/Tunkeg On Zealos and Tunkeg I'll start by saying Tunkeg is definitely the less likely to be scum and I'm even leaning town at this point. Looking through his filter he doesn't have a huge number of posts but he has stuck to what he said his meta was switching to at the start. Most of his posts are him giving his reads, directly answering people, making a case, or asking questions. These are all townie things to be doing and while I disagree with his play and arguments at points (e.g. his scum-read on ET obviously, (also it would be very weird for scum to shoot someone that one of them called a scum-read on just the day before, it both immediately show them to be wrong and forces them to make a case on someone else as well as wasting any case they've made so far.)) he's doing them in a townie way and at worst he'll stay this open and show himself to be scum, if he doesn't stay so open we notice and lynch him for it, either way I'm happy with him atm. Zealos is a different story. First he lurked a lot day 1 and said almost nothing with what posts he did make, now day 2 he's basically just argued back and forth with hiro which has just cluttered the thread with no possible benefit. This especially because arguing with the person you're accusing (and often with the person accusing you) is not useful, you're obviously not going to change their mind, but instead of moving on and proving his towniness by scumhunting zealos sits around in a useless argument. This means between tunkeg and zealos I obviously would prefer a zealos lynch but... Acid~ My biggest scum-read right now is in fact Acid. Looking through his posts the first thing that jumps out is simply lurking. He has been lurking this entire game, with few posts, even fewer posts of any significant length by him, and even fewer posts in which he is directly addressing or responding to others, something scum love as they get to look like they're making content without ever calling anyone out or putting themselves in a situation where they might get directly called out. In a similar vein what content he has had has been the same in almost every single post, him tunneling acro/marvel. This tunneling began at the start of the game and hasn't abated, this is very big as it means that he gets to look like he's giving reads the whole time while he's really just repeating the same thing, this thing that also hasn't been the main topic of discussion so he never would end up in the spotlight. The biggest issue in this whole tunneling spree is that then at the end of day one the vote is between NT and Mouldy, Acid had expressed that he thought that NT and Marvel were scumbuddies yet when it's clear that a marvel lynch isn't going to happen and when NT is on the table he doesn't even attempt to move the vote. No he sits content to leave his vote somewhere where it can't do ANYTHING, washing him of any possible guilt for a mislynch of either candidate. And looking at his most recent post and one of the only posts of his with any reads that aren't marv/NT (maybe the ONLY post) he goes for literally the easiest reads possible, a couple of lurkers who he gives one line on about them lurking and ONE of WBG/VE because it would be too much work to even decide between that. Finally as if this all wasn't enough, after looking through Acid's stuff and concluding much of this, I also looked at ET's filter as promised and found something very interesting. Our resident just-killed townie's largest (Okay maybe second largest) post was an accusation of the one and only Acid. Now this post was a night-time accusation so it didn't draw much attention (if it had I suspect ET would be alive right now) which meant that if say, he had been correct and accused scum they would feel okay shooting him for it as no one really noticed the accusation. I mean look at why ET was killed, he seemed town and was playing well as far as I can tell and those very probably contributed to his death but vets are viewed very highly in these games, so much that it's surprising that both of them are alive even by day two, it's strange that the scum didn't shoot one of the two people who as scumhunters would presumably be their biggest threats, and one thing that could very much have influenced this choice is if someone else who was playing well also hit on a scum with a good case. Thus - ##Vote Acid~ QED | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
I'll look at acids filter but I like what I see in your case | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On May 24 2012 14:29 wherebugsgo wrote: Be prepared for VE to call you scum again, whether true or not :p Since my original post got buried: Acid, thoughts on Zealos and Tunkeg please, since you ignored talking about them earlier. Perhaps thoughts on froggy and VE as well. Call him scum again? I've explained, in detail, why I think you two are scum TOGETHER. Me calling him scum "again" doesn't prove anything about anyone except that I still believe what I said I believe before dawn. On May 22 2012 16:27 VisceraEyes wrote: Bugs, I loathe to talk about my reads with you for balance reasons, but everyone else has forsaken us. How confident are YOU that Nova is scum? I feel like he went limp kinda quick, but aside from that has at least quit posting scummily. Whether that's just because he's quit posting is obviously up for debate. Combined with the fact that he's got so many people going "Meta him bro" and the fact that he's all "Meta me bro" and it just looks really bad. But something doesn't feel right - like, he seems like TOO easy a target, ya know? This was what I asked after bugs has been asking Katina if she's sure Nova is scum. Here is bugs' following post. On May 23 2012 04:52 wherebugsgo wrote: Sorry all, I became really sick overnight. Feeling quite a bit better now, though. I'm fine with killing Katina, VE, and mold man, in that order. Katina normally reads the thread and she usually has more than one read. She also at the very least explains herself to townies. It's clear that she's deliberately ignoring my questions, possibly because she doesn't actually believe in her "case" on Nova (i.e she is scum) By the time I asked Katina the first time how sure she was of Nova being scum I had started to think he was town. Now, it is day 1, and I may be completely wrong about my assessment, but the way the bandwagons have gone today suggest either that both nova and mouldy are town or that one of them is scum. Based on the nova votes just now I'm inclined to think mouldy is scum. Of course, we'll never know the truth unless they flip. As there's not much time left in the day I think we should kill mouldy. If anyone else agrees with me that we should kill Katina or VE, let me know and perhaps we can get a vote switch going. I'll be around till deadline. ##unvote ##vote Mouldy Jeb PS. Anyone notice that Katina says she hates people using the noob card, but hasn't really expressed suspicion of mouldy? (at least, from what I recall) Now, I put it to town to decide. Did bugs satisfactorily answer the question that I very specifically and very directly asked bugs? I think not, myself. Bugs would have you believe that I'm "self-centered". Well, let me try again. Here's a question I posed of Bugs. On May 22 2012 05:52 VisceraEyes wrote: 4/15 huh? 2 families of 2 I'm guessing? What do you think Bugs? Does bugs respond? YES HE DOES!!! On May 22 2012 05:59 wherebugsgo wrote: ?? I don't think that's balanced at all; normally a 16 player game has 4 mafia on one team. As this is a 15 player game I would expect that to be true as well. Wait a second...sokaywait....you are only responding to things that matter, right? Didn't you just write: On May 24 2012 14:05 wherebugsgo wrote: You say I'm ignoring you because you're either wholly self centered or scum. I address only what's necessary to address and nothing more, because information about reads in the hands of scum causes them to act differently. Think about ET being shot, and reread some of the only posts made on him. Tunkeg made an ET accusation that was completely ignored. ET was relatively vocal, and from what I recall several people called him town. Each time you've accused me of ignoring you both in this game and others there's two explanations: I'm afk when you are here or I've already addressed you and you simply don't find it satisfactory. My problem? Not really. Anyway, if you want to work together then you might as well stop calling me scum, since I'm not. ...the bolded? So in what way does "2 families vs 1 family" balance related question NEED to be addressed? How is that going to help us find scum? | ||
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Navillus
United States1188 Posts
Finally as if this all wasn't enough, after looking through Acid's stuff and concluding much of this, I also looked at ET's filter as promised and found something very interesting (I say "much of this" because I did notice some of this from ET's own case, just to give credit where credit is due). | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
The fact that bugs and I are the only "veterans" in this game has nothing to do with my argument. I mentioned it one time as a joke in passing as I asked him a question. Balance is not a part of my argument whatsoever. At all. | ||
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Zealos
United Kingdom3575 Posts
I guess I'll try to convince you later, got an exam to run to. | ||
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Navillus
United States1188 Posts
Let's do this bugs. Not later. Now. If we both live until tomorrow this is happening anyway, so let's just get it over with. I think you're scum. It's your turn to think I'm scum and vote for me. gave me that impression but honestly of course I could have been wrong, that aside I maintain my other issues with the case. I do though see that he hasn't answered some important questions and that does look worse for him, I would say it's becoming more likely that he is scum but I also am much more sure of Acid right now. I will add my own question for Bugs - yesterday (in game) you said you were okay with a vote switch to VE (that's in what he just quoted) do you still think that VE is scum and if so why? Bugs it will look very bad if you don't answer this as well. | ||
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Navillus
United States1188 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On May 24 2012 09:39 VisceraEyes wrote: Psh whatever, sleep is for the weak  Bugs, you have ignored yet another question I've directed at you. Please if you're town cooperate with me, this is getting old and fucking annoying. Are you still down with killing one of Zealos/Tunkeg? On May 24 2012 12:06 wherebugsgo wrote: Acid you have nothing to say about either Zealos or Tunkeg? Guys, maybe bugs is right...maybe I'm overreacting and he's not ignoring me. /sarcasm Like...and you say things like On May 24 2012 14:29 wherebugsgo wrote: Be prepared for VE to call you scum again, whether true or not :p Since my original post got buried: Acid, thoughts on Zealos and Tunkeg please, since you ignored talking about them earlier. Perhaps thoughts on froggy and VE as well. ...the bolded after saying On May 24 2012 14:05 wherebugsgo wrote: You say I'm ignoring you because you're either wholly self centered or scum. I address only what's necessary to address and nothing more, because information about reads in the hands of scum causes them to act differently. Think about ET being shot, and reread some of the only posts made on him. Tunkeg made an ET accusation that was completely ignored. ET was relatively vocal, and from what I recall several people called him town. Each time you've accused me of ignoring you both in this game and others there's two explanations: I'm afk when you are here or I've already addressed you and you simply don't find it satisfactory. My problem? Not really. Anyway, if you want to work together then you might as well stop calling me scum, since I'm not. ...the bolded. You're being entirely contradictory and obviously manipulative. Like, where's your vote on Zealos or Tunkeg? You're trying to get town to focus on these guys, but liiiike....you're not voting for either one and you're not talking about who YOU find suspicious at all...just repeatedly asking others who is suspicious. Until they respond (Katina, Acid)....you know, what I'm being self-centered OR scum for doing. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Join me. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
If that wasn't painfully obvious maybe it is now that I've had to say it because the implication didn't get through your thickheadedness before. @Navillus: truthfully I wasn't ever okay with a VE switch, I was unsure of him as I am now and wanted opinions. Sadly no one really came forth with any counter push or even thoughts so the only thoughts I have on VE are my own. I have my own thoughts on most of the players but from experience it makes no sense to publicly share them until I feel like I have the information I want. Katina, care to weigh in on who you want to lynch? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Yeah, I see what you mean about withholding information being strategically sound. /sarcasm | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On May 23 2012 04:52 wherebugsgo wrote: Sorry all, I became really sick overnight. Feeling quite a bit better now, though. I'm fine with killing Katina, VE, and mold man, in that order. Katina normally reads the thread and she usually has more than one read. She also at the very least explains herself to townies. It's clear that she's deliberately ignoring my questions, possibly because she doesn't actually believe in her "case" on Nova (i.e she is scum) By the time I asked Katina the first time how sure she was of Nova being scum I had started to think he was town. Now, it is day 1, and I may be completely wrong about my assessment, but the way the bandwagons have gone today suggest either that both nova and mouldy are town or that one of them is scum. Based on the nova votes just now I'm inclined to think mouldy is scum. Of course, we'll never know the truth unless they flip. As there's not much time left in the day I think we should kill mouldy. If anyone else agrees with me that we should kill Katina or VE, let me know and perhaps we can get a vote switch going. I'll be around till deadline. ##unvote ##vote Mouldy Jeb PS. Anyone notice that Katina says she hates people using the noob card, but hasn't really expressed suspicion of mouldy? (at least, from what I recall) On May 24 2012 15:54 wherebugsgo wrote: I'm not addressing that specific question because I want acid to answer before I put forth my opinion. If that wasn't painfully obvious maybe it is now that I've had to say it because the implication didn't get through your thickheadedness before. @Navillus: truthfully I wasn't ever okay with a VE switch, I was unsure of him as I am now and wanted opinions. Sadly no one really came forth with any counter push or even thoughts so the only thoughts I have on VE are my own. I have my own thoughts on most of the players but from experience it makes no sense to publicly share them until I feel like I have the information I want. Katina, care to weigh in on who you want to lynch? On May 24 2012 15:54 wherebugsgo wrote: truthfully I wasn't ever okay with a VE switch On May 23 2012 04:52 wherebugsgo wrote: I'm fine with killing VE LMAO | ||
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Navillus
United States1188 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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