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Probulous - I'm curious what you find 'ok' about Manason's filter. I took a look and there's just a shitload of tunneling on Zealos and especially kita without anything to back it up.
On May 30 2012 10:26 Manason wrote:
A lot of people are apparently making hasty votes, the day just began. We have roughly 45 hours to decide who is Scum and while you can change your vote why not focus the pressure on someone who is more likely to read the forum.
##Vote Kitaman
Hasty votes --->> hasty vote.
On May 30 2012 13:11 Manason wrote:
I'm behind you on Kita. Kita or Zealous, those are the two I'd be happy to see lynched. I think we need to start putting some pressure on these two and see what they have to say in their defence.
On May 30 2012 02:09 Manason wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 01:15 Forumite wrote:On May 30 2012 00:34 austinmcc wrote:
Bah, should have organized it more, sorry.
I don't disagree with the read on Zealos, and I don't think it's an example of good town play. But that seems to be the general opinion.
I just don't get a good feeling from the way it feels like you tried to pump up your reads on Toad and Zealos, especially when a lot of your reasoning came from supersoft or didn't even feel that strong for you (He said, as he finishes presenting a read that apparently isn't all that strong...). Also, when we had so many inactive players, choosing to hold your reads until pressured to reveal anything doesn't quite sit right with me.
Do you currently have any reads outside the main targets of discussion that feel scummy to you? It SHOULD have been the general opinion that Zealos was the scummiest, but noone talked about him, and Sinensis got lynched instead if Zealos. Whatever your own read was, there wasn´t enough of other people agreeing with you and I to kill Zealos. I tried to change that at the end of the day but I didn´t try hard enough. My reasoning didn´t come from supersoft, he got my eye on Toades, but we reached the same conclusion on Zealos on our own, unless my subconcious is acting up. I waited until someone else, in this case Supersoft, revealed his own suspicions on Zealos before I did too. I got suspicious of him first when he claimed VT, and then for real with his preemptive defence of Toades. I called him out defending Toades, but didn´t push it too far, I didn´t want to spook him ahead of time, in case he was going to post more incriminating posts. I actually prefer NOT posting more when a part of town is inactive, because if I spam then there´s more to catch up on. Anyway the most suspicious people during D1 are Zealos and Kita. Manason acted weird too. BH looked bad earlier, although less so after the sinensis-flip. I´m not sure how my read on you, austinmcc, changed with the flip, BH was agreeing with Sinensis, at least intitially, but you were defending him. So I´d say my strongest unorthodox scumtell would be Manason. While I do agree with you about Zealos and Kita, I can't say I agree with you on myself. And the obvious question I'm going to ask you is why me?
On May 31 2012 12:35 Manason wrote:
As you wish. Also note that I have previously stated I'm for the lynching of Kita or Zealous. So don't come at me and say that I'm just mad that your calling for a vig shot.
VisceraEyes: He's for lynching Kita, so I want to work with him for now.
...
Hassybaby: I'm not for lynching the lurkers at the moment as we have better targets that are active. Like Kita and Zealous.
kitaman unsurprisingly asks him what his case actually is:
On May 31 2012 12:48 Manason wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 12:40 kitaman27 wrote:On May 31 2012 12:35 Manason wrote:On May 31 2012 11:35 kitaman27 wrote:
Your post doesn't have a conclusion prob. I assumed lynchers know their target because it would be an imbalanced role otherwise. I've never played in a game where a player's win condition is to lynch an unknown target.
I find the following players scummy and have listed them in the preference of lynching order.
VisceraEyes: case stated earlier
sToFu: Apologetic, lacks town tells
Mr. Wiggles: Band-wagoning, play has completely dropped off as promising to be a leader
strongandbig: stated ealier
Hassybaby: Active lurker. Refusing to contribute even after people have complained about his apathy.
I find the following having contributed little to nothing in the thread. I'd like each of them to comment about the above five names or bring up something meaningful to show that they care about showing that they are town. Otherwise, they should all be considered for vig shots.
Manason
GambitX32
Cwave
Hassybaby
Kenpachi
phagga
Hyaach
sToFu As you wish. Also note that I have previously stated I'm for the lynching of Kita or Zealous. So don't come at me and say that I'm just mad that your calling for a vig shot. VisceraEyes: He's for lynching Kita, so I want to work with him for now. sToFu: I don't think he's scum. Mr. Wiggles: I voted for him because I trusted his judgment. Nothing I've seen so far has led me to not trust my intial insticts. strongandbig: at some points I've thought he's scum, other times town. To be honest I have no opinion at the moment. Hassybaby: I'm not for lynching the lurkers at the moment as we have better targets that are active. Like Kita and Zealous. You stated that you wish to pressure me with your vote, but have not once explained your reasoning for voting me. Please provide a case (and I hope its more detailed than your views of those five) To be completely honest, I have no reasoning as to why I think your scum other than intuition, and I want you to defend yourself as it will either make me change my mind about voting you or provide more information. My enemy is scum, if your town please, convince me.
I hate this 'to be honest' wording. Only intuition. He says 'I want you to defend yourself' - how is kita supposed to defend himself from Manason? There's no case to answer...
On May 31 2012 15:43 Manason wrote:
Sorry VE, but theres a lot of evidence making you look bad.
##Unvote: Kitaman
##Vote: VisceraEyes
However I still do look forward to what you have on Kita, If it's good enough you might have a chance to not get lynched.
Going back to my line of reasoning during the lynch, Manason is one of those voting for VE because there is 'good evidence'. We are not graced with any idea of what parts of the evidence he agrees with.
All in all, Manason so far has thought Zealos, Kita, and VE are scum. Just for the sake of completeness, I will sum up Manason's cases on them all (and by sum up, I mean write the entire cases he has written):
Zealos: ...
kitaman: no reasoning, intuition
VE: good evidence.
This is appearing to scumhunt without scumhunting of the highest order. He's posted enough times but actually has zero content. Bandwagoning when convenient, abandoning his 2 earlier reads just like that. This dude looks like scum to me.
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On June 01 2012 22:50 strongandbig wrote:
Ugh. I'm so bad at this game.
I'm officially taking mattchew off of my scum list. I think I tend to tunnel people who attack me for stupid reasons, and this looks like a case of that.
Marv, do you think kita is scum as well, and Manson was distancing himself from kita and zealos at the same time? I agree with you that his filter looks terrible though.
I don't know about kita atm, getting a coherent opinion on him together is gonna take me quite a bit of time that I won't have until later this evening.
Hard to say what Manason was doing, because there was so bloody little reasoning behind his suspects.
The other interesting thing of note in his filter is that the only time he presents cogent thoughts was when talking about the mayoral election. He is able to elucidate quite clearly who and why he is voting for. This clarity is suddenly absent when looking for scum.
Also I think Matt's trap point is retarded. Don't let it bother you unless he actually has a proper case to present.
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On June 01 2012 23:29 Manason wrote:
Ok well there is something I want to make clear right now. I never thought VE was Scum. The reason why I gave him a vote was because I was suspicious by the whole bread crumb deal, added on to the fact that he was going to get lynched and I would rather a VE lynch than a no-lynch. For the people saying that I don't provide any evidence, you guys don't seem to be quoting anything in my filter to prove I'm scum either, although I would give you the benefit of the doubt as it is night, I expect something tomorrow and as a show of good will I will make a complete case against who I think is scum.
I know this isn't going to go in my favor and probably harm my chances even more, but I'm lazy and don't want to go digging through peoples filters and making a case. I like to leave that to the vets. Like I've already said though I'll attempt a case D3.
Remind me for a moment how a complete lack of scumhunting and voting for a townie lynch isn't scummy
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On June 02 2012 03:25 Mattchew wrote:
Yo, manason's logic is so backwords and shit, that I think its actually genuine and he believes it. His attempt to explain his (albeit stupid) logic actually gives me a fairly strong town read on him. I could be wrong and getting played by the "newb card" but I just fail to see how someone with teammates and in their first (i believe) game would
a. bus zealos that early along with maybe bussing kita should he flip scum
b. type something that unbelievably suspicious in the thread with teammates that would tell him not to post that
c. type that freely in the thread, as to say I don't sense hesitation or a fear of looking scummy, I just sense a guy who doesn't want to be lynched.
Like BH I don't buy the newb card.
Have you already forgotten Magic where Zealos said he was happy to lynch a townie day 1, and that was under Katina's guidance?
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I've been over kita's filter twice to try to get my head sorted on him. A couple of things stood out for me.
1) the odd reaction to VE's death,
2) his original case on VE. The problem with the case was it boils down to "VE is play like VE guyz! lynch him!" Especially he quotes a post from VE who is calling people scum and says "The confidence coming from this post is not townlike". Well, perhaps not normal-townlike, but it's certainly VE town-like, or at least it doesn't indicate in any way whatsoever VE's alignment.
3) he lets MZ do the hard-pushing of VE
Most of the rest of his filter doesn't really read that scummily. The question is, how much weight is it correct to assign to these points? Enough to condemn him out of hand?
EchelonTee - I was having a gander at your filter, and I couldn't quite see where your DIE DIE DIE #vote kita came from. Even after VE flipped I didn't see this brewing, but now after the daypost utter certainty. Why are you so sure now?
I have to read again kita's case on Wiggles as well as Wiggles filter. To the rest of you, it's a bit premature to be saying "lol bus!".
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On June 02 2012 19:48 EchelonTee wrote:
Read the thread
Yus, and it went from you being a bit suspicious of kita to DIE DIE DIE with no explanation in between. Don't patronise me.
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fuck, I had missed the interaction between kitaman discrediting Toad and then attacking VE for his relationship with Toad. That's easily the most convincing thing.
wbg: given kita's head is on the chopping block, what do you make of his stance that he can't be clear whether Gambit is scum? This confuses me as I'd expect kita to be positive about lynching gambit if he was scum
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I still think Manason is scum
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Which lynch would you favour today? I was unsure on kita but Prob's case pushed him over to scum for me
I'm still surer about Gambit though
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like with Gambit, he was here to make the ninja vote and people have been calling on him to do something, and he just does nothing. Zealos wormed out of his lynch (although he got modkilled) because of the VE wagon, and Gambit might do the same vis-a-vis kitaman. The diffference is I think kita has a considerably higher chance of flipping scum than VE did
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On June 03 2012 01:14 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 21:00 marvellosity wrote:On June 02 2012 19:48 EchelonTee wrote:
Read the thread Yus, and it went from you being a bit suspicious of kita to DIE DIE DIE with no explanation in between. Don't patronise me. It's hard not to patronize when I put him on a KILL list last night, like twice. And I explained it. You didn't read closely enough. You implied that I made some huge shift, which is hilarious. killing g32 would probably be sounder, to reduce kp. he doesn't have an ounce of being indignant or upset that he is being pressured (common town noob tells, think Sputnik.theory),.it's highly likely he's scum. Ill switch my vote to him when I'm on a cpu
At the risk of making a mountain out of a molehill, you put him on a kill list of like 4 or 5 people, and then today it's definitely him and not someone else.
Somewhat made moot by the rest of your post there...
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My earlier case on Manason for reference:
+ Show Spoiler +On June 01 2012 21:25 marvellosity wrote:Probulous - I'm curious what you find 'ok' about Manason's filter. I took a look and there's just a shitload of tunneling on Zealos and especially kita without anything to back it up. Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 10:26 Manason wrote:
A lot of people are apparently making hasty votes, the day just began. We have roughly 45 hours to decide who is Scum and while you can change your vote why not focus the pressure on someone who is more likely to read the forum.
##Vote Kitaman Hasty votes --->> hasty vote. Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 13:11 Manason wrote:
I'm behind you on Kita. Kita or Zealous, those are the two I'd be happy to see lynched. I think we need to start putting some pressure on these two and see what they have to say in their defence. Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 02:09 Manason wrote:On May 30 2012 01:15 Forumite wrote:On May 30 2012 00:34 austinmcc wrote:
Bah, should have organized it more, sorry.
I don't disagree with the read on Zealos, and I don't think it's an example of good town play. But that seems to be the general opinion.
I just don't get a good feeling from the way it feels like you tried to pump up your reads on Toad and Zealos, especially when a lot of your reasoning came from supersoft or didn't even feel that strong for you (He said, as he finishes presenting a read that apparently isn't all that strong...). Also, when we had so many inactive players, choosing to hold your reads until pressured to reveal anything doesn't quite sit right with me.
Do you currently have any reads outside the main targets of discussion that feel scummy to you? It SHOULD have been the general opinion that Zealos was the scummiest, but noone talked about him, and Sinensis got lynched instead if Zealos. Whatever your own read was, there wasn´t enough of other people agreeing with you and I to kill Zealos. I tried to change that at the end of the day but I didn´t try hard enough. My reasoning didn´t come from supersoft, he got my eye on Toades, but we reached the same conclusion on Zealos on our own, unless my subconcious is acting up. I waited until someone else, in this case Supersoft, revealed his own suspicions on Zealos before I did too. I got suspicious of him first when he claimed VT, and then for real with his preemptive defence of Toades. I called him out defending Toades, but didn´t push it too far, I didn´t want to spook him ahead of time, in case he was going to post more incriminating posts. I actually prefer NOT posting more when a part of town is inactive, because if I spam then there´s more to catch up on. Anyway the most suspicious people during D1 are Zealos and Kita. Manason acted weird too. BH looked bad earlier, although less so after the sinensis-flip. I´m not sure how my read on you, austinmcc, changed with the flip, BH was agreeing with Sinensis, at least intitially, but you were defending him. So I´d say my strongest unorthodox scumtell would be Manason. While I do agree with you about Zealos and Kita, I can't say I agree with you on myself. And the obvious question I'm going to ask you is why me? Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 12:35 Manason wrote:
As you wish. Also note that I have previously stated I'm for the lynching of Kita or Zealous. So don't come at me and say that I'm just mad that your calling for a vig shot.
VisceraEyes: He's for lynching Kita, so I want to work with him for now.
...
Hassybaby: I'm not for lynching the lurkers at the moment as we have better targets that are active. Like Kita and Zealous.
kitaman unsurprisingly asks him what his case actually is: Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 12:48 Manason wrote:On May 31 2012 12:40 kitaman27 wrote:On May 31 2012 12:35 Manason wrote:On May 31 2012 11:35 kitaman27 wrote:
Your post doesn't have a conclusion prob. I assumed lynchers know their target because it would be an imbalanced role otherwise. I've never played in a game where a player's win condition is to lynch an unknown target.
I find the following players scummy and have listed them in the preference of lynching order.
VisceraEyes: case stated earlier
sToFu: Apologetic, lacks town tells
Mr. Wiggles: Band-wagoning, play has completely dropped off as promising to be a leader
strongandbig: stated ealier
Hassybaby: Active lurker. Refusing to contribute even after people have complained about his apathy.
I find the following having contributed little to nothing in the thread. I'd like each of them to comment about the above five names or bring up something meaningful to show that they care about showing that they are town. Otherwise, they should all be considered for vig shots.
Manason
GambitX32
Cwave
Hassybaby
Kenpachi
phagga
Hyaach
sToFu As you wish. Also note that I have previously stated I'm for the lynching of Kita or Zealous. So don't come at me and say that I'm just mad that your calling for a vig shot. VisceraEyes: He's for lynching Kita, so I want to work with him for now. sToFu: I don't think he's scum. Mr. Wiggles: I voted for him because I trusted his judgment. Nothing I've seen so far has led me to not trust my intial insticts. strongandbig: at some points I've thought he's scum, other times town. To be honest I have no opinion at the moment. Hassybaby: I'm not for lynching the lurkers at the moment as we have better targets that are active. Like Kita and Zealous. You stated that you wish to pressure me with your vote, but have not once explained your reasoning for voting me. Please provide a case (and I hope its more detailed than your views of those five) To be completely honest, I have no reasoning as to why I think your scum other than intuition, and I want you to defend yourself as it will either make me change my mind about voting you or provide more information. My enemy is scum, if your town please, convince me. I hate this 'to be honest' wording. Only intuition. He says 'I want you to defend yourself' - how is kita supposed to defend himself from Manason? There's no case to answer... Show nested quote +On May 31 2012 15:43 Manason wrote:
Sorry VE, but theres a lot of evidence making you look bad.
##Unvote: Kitaman
##Vote: VisceraEyes
However I still do look forward to what you have on Kita, If it's good enough you might have a chance to not get lynched. Going back to my line of reasoning during the lynch, Manason is one of those voting for VE because there is 'good evidence'. We are not graced with any idea of what parts of the evidence he agrees with. All in all, Manason so far has thought Zealos, Kita, and VE are scum. Just for the sake of completeness, I will sum up Manason's cases on them all (and by sum up, I mean write the entire cases he has written): Zealos: ... kitaman: no reasoning, intuition VE: good evidence. This is appearing to scumhunt without scumhunting of the highest order. He's posted enough times but actually has zero content. Bandwagoning when convenient, abandoning his 2 earlier reads just like that. This dude looks like scum to me.
Since my case:
On June 01 2012 23:29 Manason wrote:
Ok well there is something I want to make clear right now. I never thought VE was Scum.
Very little to say about that one really. Not accepting anyone's 'too dumb to be scum' defence. I caught scum Zealos in the exact same thing in Magic.
On June 02 2012 10:31 Manason wrote:
##Vote Kitaman
I will post a case later.
This was almost a full day ago. Die scum die.
##Vote: Manason
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Some food for thought; Ange777 is posting like a baws in Newbie XV and yet nothing here :/
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Toad sweetie, while you're here, do you fancy giving us your thoughts on anything at all?
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On June 03 2012 17:22 Probulous wrote:
Gambit what happened to you? You had so much potential and then you started hanging out with the wrong crowd. Kita offers you a ciggie and next thing you know you're snorting crack from Zealos' butt-cheeks. Peer pressure, it makes you do crazy things.
All sounds quite appealing :p
And no, I do not think Manason is going to get lynched today. But if anything was going to get him to post something constructive, it was a case and a vote. As it is, Manason is going the way of Zealos and Gambit, and he is on my scumlist.
I remain more confident in a Gambit lynch than a kita lynch, so
##Unvote
##Vote: Gambitx32
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Can we lynch Toad for being useless? Any takers? 12 pages of :< I'm going to conveniently forget the confirmed town bit for a moment
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also stop flirting Prob, I don't wish to play mafia in a state of sexual arousal
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On June 04 2012 21:59 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2012 21:39 EchelonTee wrote:
that is very odd... I noticed that Toad said "I make circle N1", and was wondering if he was going to reveal who else, if any, were in his circle besides MZ.
Toad, why are you implying that marv knows too much? It appears that Hyaach is the one who knows too much, somehow. I'm not implying marv knows to much. I wanted to hear from someone who I thought to be townie how he understoof my role. Sadler it never came to it because if he told me "you make a circle with multiple people n1" that would prove to me that at least people who are reading thought the way I wanted them to think. Hyaach looks odd for knowing too much as well unless the majority or at least a bunch of people thought that way as well. That's why I asked marv, and because he was around although he never answered 
Sorry love, I had to go out birthday shopping for my other half.
I'm confused though. My understanding was that you got to set up your circle N1 and that was it, and that MZ was in it and we didn't know any more than that.
Not sure what you're saying this page - what did you lie about? Are you masoned with MZ (+ others?)?
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Wait, is the lie that you could only mason people N1 but in fact you can every day or night?
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On June 05 2012 05:56 Manason wrote:
I am confused,
can someone please tell me what's going on with Toad and his circle?
I am confused,
I'm sure you said you were going to make a case on kita but I can't for the life of me find it
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EPT
