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Okay, I see that while I was typing my last post out on my phone, Hassybaby posted a case on me. Since I have my phone out and the thread loaded, and since a numbe of people have been speculating about me, I figure I might as well post something now.
First, I won't deny that I've been goofing around a bit. (I mean, obviously.) I've been trying to get into the spirit of the bastard game, as well as to mix up my posting style from my first game, newbie mafia 6 (which we just won as town). However, unlike layabout, the only times I've been accusing people without meaning it has been for accusations that we're obviously fake - eg, the sleeper cell stuff, when there is clearly no sleeper cell in this game. My posts about the chart and about Bagmanager are legit - I think that we should be suspicious of Bagmanager since he's lurking a lot and is probably a smurf of some veteran player, and the reason I've been posting about the protection arrow mechanics is that I think the town can gain a big advantage by figuring out the aspects of the game mechanics which we don't entirely understand yet.
This is my second game, and my first with a suspicious and/or closed setup; so I guess vets could know things that I don't about whether speculating about mechanics tends not to e productive or tends to be a scum tell. However, it seems to me at this point that it could be productive for the town.
Now, Hassybaby didn't really bring this up but other people have, so as long as I'm here I might as well clarify what I'm talking about with the "Lost survivor" stuff. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that the flavor indicated that survivors and town are similar groups. From the people who have posted their win conditions so far, it seems like a common win condition is to keep one of a list of players alive. If this list contains the player themselves, the it seems reasonable to classify that player as a "survivor." However, this seems like a very town-ish win condition to me - regardless of whether or not it is combined with an official town win condition. In other words, survivors with a protect list such as seems likely to exist in this game both list-based town and list-based survivors should be trying as hard as they can to get the killers out of the picture.
I'm not going to say whether I'm a "survivor" or "town" at this point. I hope you all agree that that's reasonable; if I admit to being town I become a night kill target whereas if I admit to being a "third party" survivor I become a lynch target. What I will say is that the "third party" survivors and the "town" players are fundamentally aligned in that they are likely to lose if the killers (sk and/or scum) win.
As an aside, please excuse me if I post slowly and get ninja'd a lot; I tend to post on my smartphone, which is a lot slower than on a pc. This happened to me a lot in the newbie game that just finished, as well.
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On April 11 2012 22:31 Sbrubbles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 16:12 johnnywup wrote:
VOTES PEOPLE VOTES! We've got scum/town to lynch! What the fuck, man? Do you realize that by claiming survivor means you're a liability to the town if we reach Lylo? If you choose not to contribute to finding scum, you may as well be dead. It's possible that the endgame condition will make reaching Lylo impossible or something like that, but otherwise, I'll be greatly in favor of lynching you tomorrow. I would say the same thing for phagga, but he's contributing at least. + Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 09:12 Hassybaby wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GVXqD.png) Protection names doesn't equal alignment. Can still lynch him, since the guys who claimed so far have stated that any of their names surviving means a win for town (?) Congratulations, you've just proved in graph form how useless claiming win cons is. + Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 09:32 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 09:25 GreYMisT wrote:
I fail to see how this is helpful. Its certainly not helping us find out who the scummiest player is Well if somebody is lying and a DT check's them, the DT will know that they lied about their wincon. Other than that there is an increased chance that any two players that have to protect each other share alignments, but since players appear to have multiple targets to keep alive to endgame it's possible that that chance is not so large. So what if a DT finds out they're lying? If a townie has a "kill XXX" condition, he's not gonna claim it, since it would just make him lose credibility. But he's still a townie and XXX may still be scum! "increased chance that any two players that have to protect each other share alignment" is pure speculation (there's already a high chance that will happen, but that is just because probably around 3/4 of the players are town). + Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 21:40 layabout wrote:Lets assume we are all survivors or town. Town are not mafia. Survivors are not mafia. + Show Spoiler [Filters] +Very likely survivor:Johnnywub + Show Spoiler +he claims it when mafia would not be sure if there were many survivors and when there was no real need for him to claim it strongandbig + Show Spoiler +he speculates that everyone is a survivor, i also think he is 3rd party. Drazerk + Show Spoiler +based on his wincon being to keep himself alive On April 11 2012 07:26 Drazerk wrote:
Myself, Macheji, Jackal58 or GreYMisT
Go There was also this "be nice to survivors posts" On April 10 2012 23:28 Drazerk wrote:
Which annoys me because if someone claims survivor you should just ignore them instead of lynching them day 1 On April 10 2012 23:44 Drazerk wrote:
don't even like vigs targetting survivors
Just leave em be >.> Also all three are acting like they do not care about lyching mafia. They are acting like they received a 3rd party role and then decided to mess around. A sensible townie knows that survivors can win without town and will pay less attention to what someone that claims survivor says. Likewise a sensible survivor will realise the value in getting people to listen to them and would try to avoid claiming survivor. Probably survivorCyber Cheese + Show Spoiler + On April 10 2012 09:11 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Thought: Everyone posts their wincon. Agree/Disagree? explanation coming when i regain PC acess Hassababy + Show Spoiler +explanation coming when i regain PC acess phagga + Show Spoiler +based on his wincon being to keep himself alive On April 11 2012 07:55 phagga wrote:
I got me, Cyber_Cheese, layabout, jackal58 or sbrubbles.
Seriously, I'm not sure what to think of the layabout thing. I mean, there was a alot of stupid banter at the start of the game, and I never took his posts about bluelightz seriously. I am quite surprised that so many people jump on that.
On the other side, his reaction is a bit lacking. So, yeah. But lynching him for this? i don't know...
Still, I also don't like how Drazerk just voted layabout before there was anything to vote him for and then tried to cover up his vote with stuff layabout said AFTER he voted him.
Also, there are a few people lurking, I'm mainly looking at Eiii and Bagmanager here. Also VE seems really tame compared to other games. Jackal + Show Spoiler +Jackal is probably the most responsible for for the wincon claims being shared, he claimed this On April 11 2012 07:33 Jackal58 wrote:Hmmmmm phagga, Sbrubbles, Hassybaby or Drazerk He is probably telling the truth because of these posts On April 11 2012 07:19 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 06:26 layabout wrote:+ Show Spoiler [whati want us to do] +I want us to kill Macheji for being the first player to misuse occam's razor instead of an actual argument.
I also need Greymist to live. So my wincon is for town to win and one of Greymist or Bluelightz to still be alive at endgame. On April 11 2012 05:49 Sbrubbles wrote:On April 11 2012 05:40 layabout wrote:
sbrubbles voting a player for being "defensive" is terrible Defensive wasn't the right word, admittedly. What I mean is, you could have simply stated he is your protectee. Instead, you try to meta-explain why the hosts would have him as such without anyone asking or question it. This is aside from the point, of course, that I believe you're lying. I dislike the way you are trying to over analyse an action that had very little thought put into it. Macheji, would you care to summarise your case against me and tell us how certain you are that i will flip scum? That's funny. I got 4 players in my list. On April 11 2012 07:29 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 07:28 VisceraEyes wrote:On April 11 2012 07:25 Jackal58 wrote:On April 11 2012 07:21 VisceraEyes wrote:
How about we all simultaneously post our Role PMs and compare them that way? I PROMISE I will too guys, really. How's about you talk everybody into lynching me. Because you haven't told me whether you're scum or not. I just THINK you are right now. If you're smart enough to figure it out I just told you what I was. Him doing this as mafia just does not seem right. Jackal is also quite a lazy player and i don't think he would bother to do this when there was no need for him to do so as mafia. Layabout which leaves us with: Greymist Bluelightz Viscera Eyes Bagmanger Eiii Sbrubbles I am fairly sure that Blue and Grey are town but you will need to check for yourself. Greymist seems very concernned about people not listening to him + Blue's tone indicates that he is thinking about who he thinks might be scum. so the mafia are likely in here: Viscera Eyes Bagmanger Eiii Sbrubbles At Lylo, survivors are essencially mafia, thus anti-town. You're making the mistaking of trying to divide people into 3 factions when in fact there are only 2. Pro-town and anti-town. Anti-town (scum and, to a lesser extent, survivors) need to be lynched or shot by vigs. If you are assuming that Blue and Grey are town because your objective is to have them live to the endgame, you're assuming wrong. Of your "scum list", how about you make a case on one of us. Oh, and don't do it on Bagmanager. It's too easy to make a case on a lurker (unless you actually plan on casting your vote for him, then go ahead with your case). I had you as scum before, but seing a faulty analisys that in the end just softly accuses 4 different people (two of whom accused you) while clearing everyone else just made up my mind.
The speculation at LYLO is pointless until we know the endgame condition, which we will find out at the next day post. There is no traditional mafia win condition to outnumber town, so I suspect LYLO will not be possible to reach. It's possible that you are right; however as I said above, it seems like a category of survivors in this game have protect lists, in which case their motivation should be to reduce total KP in the game rather than to avoid attracting attention.
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On April 11 2012 22:47 Jackal58 wrote:
1 of mine has to survive. I'll bet your role PM states all of yours have to be dead.
Nope, it states that one out of the group of me, Cyber_Cheese, Sbrubbles, Jackal58 and layabout has to be alive if I want to win.
Concerning layabout:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 21:40 layabout wrote:Lets assume we are all survivors or town. Town are not mafia. Survivors are not mafia. + Show Spoiler [Filters] +Very likely survivor:Johnnywub + Show Spoiler +he claims it when mafia would not be sure if there were many survivors and when there was no real need for him to claim it strongandbig + Show Spoiler +he speculates that everyone is a survivor, i also think he is 3rd party. Drazerk + Show Spoiler +based on his wincon being to keep himself alive On April 11 2012 07:26 Drazerk wrote:
Myself, Macheji, Jackal58 or GreYMisT
Go There was also this "be nice to survivors posts" On April 10 2012 23:28 Drazerk wrote:
Which annoys me because if someone claims survivor you should just ignore them instead of lynching them day 1 On April 10 2012 23:44 Drazerk wrote:
don't even like vigs targetting survivors
Just leave em be >.> Also all three are acting like they do not care about lyching mafia. They are acting like they received a 3rd party role and then decided to mess around. A sensible townie knows that survivors can win without town and will pay less attention to what someone that claims survivor says. Likewise a sensible survivor will realise the value in getting people to listen to them and would try to avoid claiming survivor. Probably survivorCyber Cheese + Show Spoiler + On April 10 2012 09:11 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Thought: Everyone posts their wincon. Agree/Disagree? explanation coming when i regain PC acess Hassababy + Show Spoiler +explanation coming when i regain PC acess phagga + Show Spoiler +based on his wincon being to keep himself alive On April 11 2012 07:55 phagga wrote:
I got me, Cyber_Cheese, layabout, jackal58 or sbrubbles.
Seriously, I'm not sure what to think of the layabout thing. I mean, there was a alot of stupid banter at the start of the game, and I never took his posts about bluelightz seriously. I am quite surprised that so many people jump on that.
On the other side, his reaction is a bit lacking. So, yeah. But lynching him for this? i don't know...
Still, I also don't like how Drazerk just voted layabout before there was anything to vote him for and then tried to cover up his vote with stuff layabout said AFTER he voted him.
Also, there are a few people lurking, I'm mainly looking at Eiii and Bagmanager here. Also VE seems really tame compared to other games. Jackal + Show Spoiler +Jackal is probably the most responsible for for the wincon claims being shared, he claimed this On April 11 2012 07:33 Jackal58 wrote:Hmmmmm phagga, Sbrubbles, Hassybaby or Drazerk He is probably telling the truth because of these posts On April 11 2012 07:19 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 06:26 layabout wrote:+ Show Spoiler [whati want us to do] +I want us to kill Macheji for being the first player to misuse occam's razor instead of an actual argument.
I also need Greymist to live. So my wincon is for town to win and one of Greymist or Bluelightz to still be alive at endgame. On April 11 2012 05:49 Sbrubbles wrote:On April 11 2012 05:40 layabout wrote:
sbrubbles voting a player for being "defensive" is terrible Defensive wasn't the right word, admittedly. What I mean is, you could have simply stated he is your protectee. Instead, you try to meta-explain why the hosts would have him as such without anyone asking or question it. This is aside from the point, of course, that I believe you're lying. I dislike the way you are trying to over analyse an action that had very little thought put into it. Macheji, would you care to summarise your case against me and tell us how certain you are that i will flip scum? That's funny. I got 4 players in my list. On April 11 2012 07:29 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 07:28 VisceraEyes wrote:On April 11 2012 07:25 Jackal58 wrote:On April 11 2012 07:21 VisceraEyes wrote:
How about we all simultaneously post our Role PMs and compare them that way? I PROMISE I will too guys, really. How's about you talk everybody into lynching me. Because you haven't told me whether you're scum or not. I just THINK you are right now. If you're smart enough to figure it out I just told you what I was. Him doing this as mafia just does not seem right. Jackal is also quite a lazy player and i don't think he would bother to do this when there was no need for him to do so as mafia. Layabout which leaves us with: Greymist Bluelightz Viscera Eyes Bagmanger Eiii Sbrubbles I am fairly sure that Blue and Grey are town but you will need to check for yourself. Greymist seems very concernned about people not listening to him + Blue's tone indicates that he is thinking about who he thinks might be scum. so the mafia are likely in here: Viscera Eyes Bagmanger Eiii Sbrubbles
I agree with sbrubbles that this post is bad. First he writes that he wants to assume that everyone is either town or survivor. But then he contradicts himself by never looking at the posts of VE, Bagman, E3 and Sbrubbles from that perspective. Instead he talks about how everyone else is either town or survivor (sometimes without reasoning) and then concludes that those 4 leftovers must be scum. Please? I just thought he assumed there is no scum?
There is a second problem with that. We should not try to find town and conclude that everyone else is scum. Instead we try to find scum by looking at what people posted and how they behave. And town lists are stupid. They just give good targets to scum for their nightkills by killing of the townies that are most trusted.
Also, 6 survivor candidates? Making me and Drazerk possible survivors because of our wincon? Missing Macheji in his analysis? This doesn't really add up.
And finally I also agree with sbrubbles that survivors at LYLO are a liability. We should get rid of survivors at some point, and should we really be unable to find a good lynch target, I'd happily lynch the claimed survivor D1.
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Brazil5776 Posts
+ Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 23:01 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 22:31 Sbrubbles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 16:12 johnnywup wrote:
VOTES PEOPLE VOTES! We've got scum/town to lynch! What the fuck, man? Do you realize that by claiming survivor means you're a liability to the town if we reach Lylo? If you choose not to contribute to finding scum, you may as well be dead. It's possible that the endgame condition will make reaching Lylo impossible or something like that, but otherwise, I'll be greatly in favor of lynching you tomorrow. I would say the same thing for phagga, but he's contributing at least. + Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 09:12 Hassybaby wrote:Protection names doesn't equal alignment. Can still lynch him, since the guys who claimed so far have stated that any of their names surviving means a win for town (?) Congratulations, you've just proved in graph form how useless claiming win cons is. + Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 09:32 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 09:25 GreYMisT wrote:
I fail to see how this is helpful. Its certainly not helping us find out who the scummiest player is Well if somebody is lying and a DT check's them, the DT will know that they lied about their wincon. Other than that there is an increased chance that any two players that have to protect each other share alignments, but since players appear to have multiple targets to keep alive to endgame it's possible that that chance is not so large. So what if a DT finds out they're lying? If a townie has a "kill XXX" condition, he's not gonna claim it, since it would just make him lose credibility. But he's still a townie and XXX may still be scum! "increased chance that any two players that have to protect each other share alignment" is pure speculation (there's already a high chance that will happen, but that is just because probably around 3/4 of the players are town). + Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 21:40 layabout wrote:Lets assume we are all survivors or town. Town are not mafia. Survivors are not mafia. + Show Spoiler [Filters] +Very likely survivor:Johnnywub + Show Spoiler +he claims it when mafia would not be sure if there were many survivors and when there was no real need for him to claim it strongandbig + Show Spoiler +he speculates that everyone is a survivor, i also think he is 3rd party. Drazerk + Show Spoiler +based on his wincon being to keep himself alive On April 11 2012 07:26 Drazerk wrote:
Myself, Macheji, Jackal58 or GreYMisT
Go There was also this "be nice to survivors posts" On April 10 2012 23:28 Drazerk wrote:
Which annoys me because if someone claims survivor you should just ignore them instead of lynching them day 1 On April 10 2012 23:44 Drazerk wrote:
don't even like vigs targetting survivors
Just leave em be >.> Also all three are acting like they do not care about lyching mafia. They are acting like they received a 3rd party role and then decided to mess around. A sensible townie knows that survivors can win without town and will pay less attention to what someone that claims survivor says. Likewise a sensible survivor will realise the value in getting people to listen to them and would try to avoid claiming survivor. Probably survivorCyber Cheese + Show Spoiler + On April 10 2012 09:11 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Thought: Everyone posts their wincon. Agree/Disagree? explanation coming when i regain PC acess Hassababy + Show Spoiler +explanation coming when i regain PC acess phagga + Show Spoiler +based on his wincon being to keep himself alive On April 11 2012 07:55 phagga wrote:
I got me, Cyber_Cheese, layabout, jackal58 or sbrubbles.
Seriously, I'm not sure what to think of the layabout thing. I mean, there was a alot of stupid banter at the start of the game, and I never took his posts about bluelightz seriously. I am quite surprised that so many people jump on that.
On the other side, his reaction is a bit lacking. So, yeah. But lynching him for this? i don't know...
Still, I also don't like how Drazerk just voted layabout before there was anything to vote him for and then tried to cover up his vote with stuff layabout said AFTER he voted him.
Also, there are a few people lurking, I'm mainly looking at Eiii and Bagmanager here. Also VE seems really tame compared to other games. Jackal + Show Spoiler +Jackal is probably the most responsible for for the wincon claims being shared, he claimed this On April 11 2012 07:33 Jackal58 wrote:Hmmmmm phagga, Sbrubbles, Hassybaby or Drazerk He is probably telling the truth because of these posts On April 11 2012 07:19 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 06:26 layabout wrote:+ Show Spoiler [whati want us to do] +I want us to kill Macheji for being the first player to misuse occam's razor instead of an actual argument.
I also need Greymist to live. So my wincon is for town to win and one of Greymist or Bluelightz to still be alive at endgame. On April 11 2012 05:49 Sbrubbles wrote:On April 11 2012 05:40 layabout wrote:
sbrubbles voting a player for being "defensive" is terrible Defensive wasn't the right word, admittedly. What I mean is, you could have simply stated he is your protectee. Instead, you try to meta-explain why the hosts would have him as such without anyone asking or question it. This is aside from the point, of course, that I believe you're lying. I dislike the way you are trying to over analyse an action that had very little thought put into it. Macheji, would you care to summarise your case against me and tell us how certain you are that i will flip scum? That's funny. I got 4 players in my list. On April 11 2012 07:29 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 07:28 VisceraEyes wrote:On April 11 2012 07:25 Jackal58 wrote:On April 11 2012 07:21 VisceraEyes wrote:
How about we all simultaneously post our Role PMs and compare them that way? I PROMISE I will too guys, really. How's about you talk everybody into lynching me. Because you haven't told me whether you're scum or not. I just THINK you are right now. If you're smart enough to figure it out I just told you what I was. Him doing this as mafia just does not seem right. Jackal is also quite a lazy player and i don't think he would bother to do this when there was no need for him to do so as mafia. Layabout which leaves us with: Greymist Bluelightz Viscera Eyes Bagmanger Eiii Sbrubbles I am fairly sure that Blue and Grey are town but you will need to check for yourself. Greymist seems very concernned about people not listening to him + Blue's tone indicates that he is thinking about who he thinks might be scum. so the mafia are likely in here: Viscera Eyes Bagmanger Eiii Sbrubbles At Lylo, survivors are essencially mafia, thus anti-town. You're making the mistaking of trying to divide people into 3 factions when in fact there are only 2. Pro-town and anti-town. Anti-town (scum and, to a lesser extent, survivors) need to be lynched or shot by vigs. If you are assuming that Blue and Grey are town because your objective is to have them live to the endgame, you're assuming wrong. Of your "scum list", how about you make a case on one of us. Oh, and don't do it on Bagmanager. It's too easy to make a case on a lurker (unless you actually plan on casting your vote for him, then go ahead with your case). I had you as scum before, but seing a faulty analisys that in the end just softly accuses 4 different people (two of whom accused you) while clearing everyone else just made up my mind. The speculation at LYLO is pointless until we know the endgame condition, which we will find out at the next day post. There is no traditional mafia win condition to outnumber town, so I suspect LYLO will not be possible to reach. It's possible that you are right; however as I said above, it seems like a category of survivors in this game have protect lists, in which case their motivation should be to reduce total KP in the game rather than to avoid attracting attention.
Yeah, I mentioned that on another post. I'd rather lynch scummy-looking people instead of claimed survivors at least until the endgame condition is revealed (though even afterwards the priority would still be on lynching scum, of course). Still, I highly doubt survivors will be pro-town; their win condition is to wait out the game, not hunt scum. Also, based on the two posts above, I assume you're a survivor. Am I right?
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Brazil5776 Posts
Phagga, aren't you being hypocrital? You're claiming survivor and advising to eventually get rid of survivors at some point? Wtf?
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where did I claim survivor?
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Also, no, I'm not survivor.
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United Kingdom10823 Posts
You're gonna have to point that one out Sbrubbles. I don't see him claiming survivor at all.
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On April 11 2012 23:40 Sbrubbles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 23:01 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 22:31 Sbrubbles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 16:12 johnnywup wrote:
VOTES PEOPLE VOTES! We've got scum/town to lynch! What the fuck, man? Do you realize that by claiming survivor means you're a liability to the town if we reach Lylo? If you choose not to contribute to finding scum, you may as well be dead. It's possible that the endgame condition will make reaching Lylo impossible or something like that, but otherwise, I'll be greatly in favor of lynching you tomorrow. I would say the same thing for phagga, but he's contributing at least. + Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 09:12 Hassybaby wrote:Protection names doesn't equal alignment. Can still lynch him, since the guys who claimed so far have stated that any of their names surviving means a win for town (?) Congratulations, you've just proved in graph form how useless claiming win cons is. + Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 09:32 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 09:25 GreYMisT wrote:
I fail to see how this is helpful. Its certainly not helping us find out who the scummiest player is Well if somebody is lying and a DT check's them, the DT will know that they lied about their wincon. Other than that there is an increased chance that any two players that have to protect each other share alignments, but since players appear to have multiple targets to keep alive to endgame it's possible that that chance is not so large. So what if a DT finds out they're lying? If a townie has a "kill XXX" condition, he's not gonna claim it, since it would just make him lose credibility. But he's still a townie and XXX may still be scum! "increased chance that any two players that have to protect each other share alignment" is pure speculation (there's already a high chance that will happen, but that is just because probably around 3/4 of the players are town). + Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 21:40 layabout wrote:Lets assume we are all survivors or town. Town are not mafia. Survivors are not mafia. + Show Spoiler [Filters] +Very likely survivor:Johnnywub + Show Spoiler +he claims it when mafia would not be sure if there were many survivors and when there was no real need for him to claim it strongandbig + Show Spoiler +he speculates that everyone is a survivor, i also think he is 3rd party. Drazerk + Show Spoiler +based on his wincon being to keep himself alive On April 11 2012 07:26 Drazerk wrote:
Myself, Macheji, Jackal58 or GreYMisT
Go There was also this "be nice to survivors posts" On April 10 2012 23:28 Drazerk wrote:
Which annoys me because if someone claims survivor you should just ignore them instead of lynching them day 1 On April 10 2012 23:44 Drazerk wrote:
don't even like vigs targetting survivors
Just leave em be >.> Also all three are acting like they do not care about lyching mafia. They are acting like they received a 3rd party role and then decided to mess around. A sensible townie knows that survivors can win without town and will pay less attention to what someone that claims survivor says. Likewise a sensible survivor will realise the value in getting people to listen to them and would try to avoid claiming survivor. Probably survivorCyber Cheese + Show Spoiler + On April 10 2012 09:11 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Thought: Everyone posts their wincon. Agree/Disagree? explanation coming when i regain PC acess Hassababy + Show Spoiler +explanation coming when i regain PC acess phagga + Show Spoiler +based on his wincon being to keep himself alive On April 11 2012 07:55 phagga wrote:
I got me, Cyber_Cheese, layabout, jackal58 or sbrubbles.
Seriously, I'm not sure what to think of the layabout thing. I mean, there was a alot of stupid banter at the start of the game, and I never took his posts about bluelightz seriously. I am quite surprised that so many people jump on that.
On the other side, his reaction is a bit lacking. So, yeah. But lynching him for this? i don't know...
Still, I also don't like how Drazerk just voted layabout before there was anything to vote him for and then tried to cover up his vote with stuff layabout said AFTER he voted him.
Also, there are a few people lurking, I'm mainly looking at Eiii and Bagmanager here. Also VE seems really tame compared to other games. Jackal + Show Spoiler +Jackal is probably the most responsible for for the wincon claims being shared, he claimed this On April 11 2012 07:33 Jackal58 wrote:Hmmmmm phagga, Sbrubbles, Hassybaby or Drazerk He is probably telling the truth because of these posts On April 11 2012 07:19 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 06:26 layabout wrote:+ Show Spoiler [whati want us to do] +I want us to kill Macheji for being the first player to misuse occam's razor instead of an actual argument.
I also need Greymist to live. So my wincon is for town to win and one of Greymist or Bluelightz to still be alive at endgame. On April 11 2012 05:49 Sbrubbles wrote:On April 11 2012 05:40 layabout wrote:
sbrubbles voting a player for being "defensive" is terrible Defensive wasn't the right word, admittedly. What I mean is, you could have simply stated he is your protectee. Instead, you try to meta-explain why the hosts would have him as such without anyone asking or question it. This is aside from the point, of course, that I believe you're lying. I dislike the way you are trying to over analyse an action that had very little thought put into it. Macheji, would you care to summarise your case against me and tell us how certain you are that i will flip scum? That's funny. I got 4 players in my list. On April 11 2012 07:29 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 07:28 VisceraEyes wrote:On April 11 2012 07:25 Jackal58 wrote:On April 11 2012 07:21 VisceraEyes wrote:
How about we all simultaneously post our Role PMs and compare them that way? I PROMISE I will too guys, really. How's about you talk everybody into lynching me. Because you haven't told me whether you're scum or not. I just THINK you are right now. If you're smart enough to figure it out I just told you what I was. Him doing this as mafia just does not seem right. Jackal is also quite a lazy player and i don't think he would bother to do this when there was no need for him to do so as mafia. Layabout which leaves us with: Greymist Bluelightz Viscera Eyes Bagmanger Eiii Sbrubbles I am fairly sure that Blue and Grey are town but you will need to check for yourself. Greymist seems very concernned about people not listening to him + Blue's tone indicates that he is thinking about who he thinks might be scum. so the mafia are likely in here: Viscera Eyes Bagmanger Eiii Sbrubbles At Lylo, survivors are essencially mafia, thus anti-town. You're making the mistaking of trying to divide people into 3 factions when in fact there are only 2. Pro-town and anti-town. Anti-town (scum and, to a lesser extent, survivors) need to be lynched or shot by vigs. If you are assuming that Blue and Grey are town because your objective is to have them live to the endgame, you're assuming wrong. Of your "scum list", how about you make a case on one of us. Oh, and don't do it on Bagmanager. It's too easy to make a case on a lurker (unless you actually plan on casting your vote for him, then go ahead with your case). I had you as scum before, but seing a faulty analisys that in the end just softly accuses 4 different people (two of whom accused you) while clearing everyone else just made up my mind. The speculation at LYLO is pointless until we know the endgame condition, which we will find out at the next day post. There is no traditional mafia win condition to outnumber town, so I suspect LYLO will not be possible to reach. It's possible that you are right; however as I said above, it seems like a category of survivors in this game have protect lists, in which case their motivation should be to reduce total KP in the game rather than to avoid attracting attention. Yeah, I mentioned that on another post. I'd rather lynch scummy-looking people instead of claimed survivors at least until the endgame condition is revealed (though even afterwards the priority would still be on lynching scum, of course). Still, I highly doubt survivors will be pro-town; their win condition is to wait out the game, not hunt scum. Also, based on the two posts above, I assume you're a survivor. Am I right?
As I said, I'm not claiming either survivor or town. I'm claiming that my win condition includes that one of a list of players has to be alive. I may or may not also have a town win condition. The reason I'm dwelling on the survivor question is that my earlier posts about the "surivors" on the tv show "Lost" led people to believe that I'm a survivor. I wanted to clarify that I think both town and survivors should be focused on reducing kp in the game by finding scum, and I went into detail as to why.
From the posts earlier in the thread, I suspect a majority of players have a similar win condition (keep one of a list of players alive).
I think this question of survivors is important for the town since there is probably a larger-than-usual number of survivors in this game - going again from the flavor and from the fact that we already have one claimed survivor in the game.
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Brazil5776 Posts
I'm assuming this is a survivor claim (though with alternate win conditions)
On April 11 2012 23:17 phagga wrote:
Nope, it states that one out of the group of me, Cyber_Cheese, Sbrubbles, Jackal58 and layabout has to be alive if I want to win.
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Brazil5776 Posts
EBWOP: Ooops, I read "or" instead of "and". My bad.
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WTF? no, it is not a survivor claim. My role description makes it very clear that I am not survivor, and it's not my fault the hosts decided to give me these win conditions.
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On April 11 2012 23:51 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 23:40 Sbrubbles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 23:01 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 22:31 Sbrubbles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 16:12 johnnywup wrote:
VOTES PEOPLE VOTES! We've got scum/town to lynch! What the fuck, man? Do you realize that by claiming survivor means you're a liability to the town if we reach Lylo? If you choose not to contribute to finding scum, you may as well be dead. It's possible that the endgame condition will make reaching Lylo impossible or something like that, but otherwise, I'll be greatly in favor of lynching you tomorrow. I would say the same thing for phagga, but he's contributing at least. + Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 09:12 Hassybaby wrote:Protection names doesn't equal alignment. Can still lynch him, since the guys who claimed so far have stated that any of their names surviving means a win for town (?) Congratulations, you've just proved in graph form how useless claiming win cons is. + Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 09:32 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 09:25 GreYMisT wrote:
I fail to see how this is helpful. Its certainly not helping us find out who the scummiest player is Well if somebody is lying and a DT check's them, the DT will know that they lied about their wincon. Other than that there is an increased chance that any two players that have to protect each other share alignments, but since players appear to have multiple targets to keep alive to endgame it's possible that that chance is not so large. So what if a DT finds out they're lying? If a townie has a "kill XXX" condition, he's not gonna claim it, since it would just make him lose credibility. But he's still a townie and XXX may still be scum! "increased chance that any two players that have to protect each other share alignment" is pure speculation (there's already a high chance that will happen, but that is just because probably around 3/4 of the players are town). + Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 21:40 layabout wrote:Lets assume we are all survivors or town. Town are not mafia. Survivors are not mafia. + Show Spoiler [Filters] +Very likely survivor:Johnnywub + Show Spoiler +he claims it when mafia would not be sure if there were many survivors and when there was no real need for him to claim it strongandbig + Show Spoiler +he speculates that everyone is a survivor, i also think he is 3rd party. Drazerk + Show Spoiler +based on his wincon being to keep himself alive On April 11 2012 07:26 Drazerk wrote:
Myself, Macheji, Jackal58 or GreYMisT
Go There was also this "be nice to survivors posts" On April 10 2012 23:28 Drazerk wrote:
Which annoys me because if someone claims survivor you should just ignore them instead of lynching them day 1 On April 10 2012 23:44 Drazerk wrote:
don't even like vigs targetting survivors
Just leave em be >.> Also all three are acting like they do not care about lyching mafia. They are acting like they received a 3rd party role and then decided to mess around. A sensible townie knows that survivors can win without town and will pay less attention to what someone that claims survivor says. Likewise a sensible survivor will realise the value in getting people to listen to them and would try to avoid claiming survivor. Probably survivorCyber Cheese + Show Spoiler + On April 10 2012 09:11 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Thought: Everyone posts their wincon. Agree/Disagree? explanation coming when i regain PC acess Hassababy + Show Spoiler +explanation coming when i regain PC acess phagga + Show Spoiler +based on his wincon being to keep himself alive On April 11 2012 07:55 phagga wrote:
I got me, Cyber_Cheese, layabout, jackal58 or sbrubbles.
Seriously, I'm not sure what to think of the layabout thing. I mean, there was a alot of stupid banter at the start of the game, and I never took his posts about bluelightz seriously. I am quite surprised that so many people jump on that.
On the other side, his reaction is a bit lacking. So, yeah. But lynching him for this? i don't know...
Still, I also don't like how Drazerk just voted layabout before there was anything to vote him for and then tried to cover up his vote with stuff layabout said AFTER he voted him.
Also, there are a few people lurking, I'm mainly looking at Eiii and Bagmanager here. Also VE seems really tame compared to other games. Jackal + Show Spoiler +Jackal is probably the most responsible for for the wincon claims being shared, he claimed this On April 11 2012 07:33 Jackal58 wrote:Hmmmmm phagga, Sbrubbles, Hassybaby or Drazerk He is probably telling the truth because of these posts On April 11 2012 07:19 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 06:26 layabout wrote:+ Show Spoiler [whati want us to do] +I want us to kill Macheji for being the first player to misuse occam's razor instead of an actual argument.
I also need Greymist to live. So my wincon is for town to win and one of Greymist or Bluelightz to still be alive at endgame. On April 11 2012 05:49 Sbrubbles wrote:On April 11 2012 05:40 layabout wrote:
sbrubbles voting a player for being "defensive" is terrible Defensive wasn't the right word, admittedly. What I mean is, you could have simply stated he is your protectee. Instead, you try to meta-explain why the hosts would have him as such without anyone asking or question it. This is aside from the point, of course, that I believe you're lying. I dislike the way you are trying to over analyse an action that had very little thought put into it. Macheji, would you care to summarise your case against me and tell us how certain you are that i will flip scum? That's funny. I got 4 players in my list. On April 11 2012 07:29 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 07:28 VisceraEyes wrote:On April 11 2012 07:25 Jackal58 wrote:On April 11 2012 07:21 VisceraEyes wrote:
How about we all simultaneously post our Role PMs and compare them that way? I PROMISE I will too guys, really. How's about you talk everybody into lynching me. Because you haven't told me whether you're scum or not. I just THINK you are right now. If you're smart enough to figure it out I just told you what I was. Him doing this as mafia just does not seem right. Jackal is also quite a lazy player and i don't think he would bother to do this when there was no need for him to do so as mafia. Layabout which leaves us with: Greymist Bluelightz Viscera Eyes Bagmanger Eiii Sbrubbles I am fairly sure that Blue and Grey are town but you will need to check for yourself. Greymist seems very concernned about people not listening to him + Blue's tone indicates that he is thinking about who he thinks might be scum. so the mafia are likely in here: Viscera Eyes Bagmanger Eiii Sbrubbles At Lylo, survivors are essencially mafia, thus anti-town. You're making the mistaking of trying to divide people into 3 factions when in fact there are only 2. Pro-town and anti-town. Anti-town (scum and, to a lesser extent, survivors) need to be lynched or shot by vigs. If you are assuming that Blue and Grey are town because your objective is to have them live to the endgame, you're assuming wrong. Of your "scum list", how about you make a case on one of us. Oh, and don't do it on Bagmanager. It's too easy to make a case on a lurker (unless you actually plan on casting your vote for him, then go ahead with your case). I had you as scum before, but seing a faulty analisys that in the end just softly accuses 4 different people (two of whom accused you) while clearing everyone else just made up my mind. The speculation at LYLO is pointless until we know the endgame condition, which we will find out at the next day post. There is no traditional mafia win condition to outnumber town, so I suspect LYLO will not be possible to reach. It's possible that you are right; however as I said above, it seems like a category of survivors in this game have protect lists, in which case their motivation should be to reduce total KP in the game rather than to avoid attracting attention. Yeah, I mentioned that on another post. I'd rather lynch scummy-looking people instead of claimed survivors at least until the endgame condition is revealed (though even afterwards the priority would still be on lynching scum, of course). Still, I highly doubt survivors will be pro-town; their win condition is to wait out the game, not hunt scum. Also, based on the two posts above, I assume you're a survivor. Am I right? As I said, I'm not claiming either survivor or town. I'm claiming that my win condition includes that one of a list of players has to be alive. I may or may not also have a town win condition. The reason I'm dwelling on the survivor question is that my earlier posts about the "surivors" on the tv show "Lost" led people to believe that I'm a survivor. I wanted to clarify that I think both town and survivors should be focused on reducing kp in the game by finding scum, and I went into detail as to why. From the posts earlier in the thread, I suspect a majority of players have a similar win condition (keep one of a list of players alive). I think this question of survivors is important for the town since there is probably a larger-than-usual number of survivors in this game - going again from the flavor and from the fact that we already have one claimed survivor in the game.
That only leaves one sweet cheeks.
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Brazil5776 Posts
On April 11 2012 23:53 phagga wrote:
WTF? no, it is not a survivor claim. My role description makes it very clear that I am not survivor, and it's not my fault the hosts decided to give me these win conditions.
Fail reading comprehension by me. I was right the first time.
On April 11 2012 23:17 phagga wrote:
Nope, it states that one out of the group of me, Cyber_Cheese, Sbrubbles, Jackal58 and layabout has to be alive if I want to win.
This means you have an alternate win condition as a survivor (if you have another interpretation for the "me" in that list I'd like to hear it). Whether this means you're a threat to town or not will hinge on the endgame condition, though (and, of course, if your play is pro-town, which so far I feel it is).
What do you know, I was wrong. Claiming win cons did have an advantage!
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tE9Pc.gif)
Sbrubbles, why don't we wait until we know how the game ends? I'm sure town gets something along the lines of "all scum needs to be dead". As I am town, and not survivor, I will then need all scum dead as well to win. So I am not a survivor, also not a town survivor or whatever. All it means is that I don't autowin when town wins, but only when one player out of a group of five is also alive.
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also, can we please return to hunting scum?
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also also, I would like to point out to sbrubbles that I also win if I dead, the game ends and (e.g.) sbrubbles is still alive. That does not sound like a survivor to me...
now back to scumhunting plz.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
phagga why is yours AND rather than the popular OR?
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
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On April 12 2012 00:03 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 23:53 phagga wrote:
WTF? no, it is not a survivor claim. My role description makes it very clear that I am not survivor, and it's not my fault the hosts decided to give me these win conditions. Fail reading comprehension by me. I was right the first time. Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 23:17 phagga wrote:
Nope, it states that one out of the group of me, Cyber_Cheese, Sbrubbles, Jackal58 and layabout has to be alive if I want to win.
This means you have an alternate win condition as a survivor (if you have another interpretation for the " me" in that list I'd like to hear it). Whether this means you're a threat to town or not will hinge on the endgame condition, though (and, of course, if your play is pro-town, which so far I feel it is). What do you know, I was wrong. Claiming win cons did have an advantage!
It doesn't have to be alternate. The "town" win condition and the "one member of group survives" win condition can be combined - both have to happen for Phagga (or whoever) to win.
On April 11 2012 23:58 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 23:51 strongandbig wrote:On April 11 2012 23:40 Sbrubbles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 23:01 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 22:31 Sbrubbles wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 16:12 johnnywup wrote:
VOTES PEOPLE VOTES! We've got scum/town to lynch! What the fuck, man? Do you realize that by claiming survivor means you're a liability to the town if we reach Lylo? If you choose not to contribute to finding scum, you may as well be dead. It's possible that the endgame condition will make reaching Lylo impossible or something like that, but otherwise, I'll be greatly in favor of lynching you tomorrow. I would say the same thing for phagga, but he's contributing at least. + Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 09:12 Hassybaby wrote:Protection names doesn't equal alignment. Can still lynch him, since the guys who claimed so far have stated that any of their names surviving means a win for town (?) Congratulations, you've just proved in graph form how useless claiming win cons is. + Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 09:32 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 09:25 GreYMisT wrote:
I fail to see how this is helpful. Its certainly not helping us find out who the scummiest player is Well if somebody is lying and a DT check's them, the DT will know that they lied about their wincon. Other than that there is an increased chance that any two players that have to protect each other share alignments, but since players appear to have multiple targets to keep alive to endgame it's possible that that chance is not so large. So what if a DT finds out they're lying? If a townie has a "kill XXX" condition, he's not gonna claim it, since it would just make him lose credibility. But he's still a townie and XXX may still be scum! "increased chance that any two players that have to protect each other share alignment" is pure speculation (there's already a high chance that will happen, but that is just because probably around 3/4 of the players are town). + Show Spoiler +On April 11 2012 21:40 layabout wrote:Lets assume we are all survivors or town. Town are not mafia. Survivors are not mafia. + Show Spoiler [Filters] +Very likely survivor:Johnnywub + Show Spoiler +he claims it when mafia would not be sure if there were many survivors and when there was no real need for him to claim it strongandbig + Show Spoiler +he speculates that everyone is a survivor, i also think he is 3rd party. Drazerk + Show Spoiler +based on his wincon being to keep himself alive On April 11 2012 07:26 Drazerk wrote:
Myself, Macheji, Jackal58 or GreYMisT
Go There was also this "be nice to survivors posts" On April 10 2012 23:28 Drazerk wrote:
Which annoys me because if someone claims survivor you should just ignore them instead of lynching them day 1 On April 10 2012 23:44 Drazerk wrote:
don't even like vigs targetting survivors
Just leave em be >.> Also all three are acting like they do not care about lyching mafia. They are acting like they received a 3rd party role and then decided to mess around. A sensible townie knows that survivors can win without town and will pay less attention to what someone that claims survivor says. Likewise a sensible survivor will realise the value in getting people to listen to them and would try to avoid claiming survivor. Probably survivorCyber Cheese + Show Spoiler + On April 10 2012 09:11 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Thought: Everyone posts their wincon. Agree/Disagree? explanation coming when i regain PC acess Hassababy + Show Spoiler +explanation coming when i regain PC acess phagga + Show Spoiler +based on his wincon being to keep himself alive On April 11 2012 07:55 phagga wrote:
I got me, Cyber_Cheese, layabout, jackal58 or sbrubbles.
Seriously, I'm not sure what to think of the layabout thing. I mean, there was a alot of stupid banter at the start of the game, and I never took his posts about bluelightz seriously. I am quite surprised that so many people jump on that.
On the other side, his reaction is a bit lacking. So, yeah. But lynching him for this? i don't know...
Still, I also don't like how Drazerk just voted layabout before there was anything to vote him for and then tried to cover up his vote with stuff layabout said AFTER he voted him.
Also, there are a few people lurking, I'm mainly looking at Eiii and Bagmanager here. Also VE seems really tame compared to other games. Jackal + Show Spoiler +Jackal is probably the most responsible for for the wincon claims being shared, he claimed this On April 11 2012 07:33 Jackal58 wrote:Hmmmmm phagga, Sbrubbles, Hassybaby or Drazerk He is probably telling the truth because of these posts On April 11 2012 07:19 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 06:26 layabout wrote:+ Show Spoiler [whati want us to do] +I want us to kill Macheji for being the first player to misuse occam's razor instead of an actual argument.
I also need Greymist to live. So my wincon is for town to win and one of Greymist or Bluelightz to still be alive at endgame. On April 11 2012 05:49 Sbrubbles wrote:On April 11 2012 05:40 layabout wrote:
sbrubbles voting a player for being "defensive" is terrible Defensive wasn't the right word, admittedly. What I mean is, you could have simply stated he is your protectee. Instead, you try to meta-explain why the hosts would have him as such without anyone asking or question it. This is aside from the point, of course, that I believe you're lying. I dislike the way you are trying to over analyse an action that had very little thought put into it. Macheji, would you care to summarise your case against me and tell us how certain you are that i will flip scum? That's funny. I got 4 players in my list. On April 11 2012 07:29 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2012 07:28 VisceraEyes wrote:On April 11 2012 07:25 Jackal58 wrote:On April 11 2012 07:21 VisceraEyes wrote:
How about we all simultaneously post our Role PMs and compare them that way? I PROMISE I will too guys, really. How's about you talk everybody into lynching me. Because you haven't told me whether you're scum or not. I just THINK you are right now. If you're smart enough to figure it out I just told you what I was. Him doing this as mafia just does not seem right. Jackal is also quite a lazy player and i don't think he would bother to do this when there was no need for him to do so as mafia. Layabout which leaves us with: Greymist Bluelightz Viscera Eyes Bagmanger Eiii Sbrubbles I am fairly sure that Blue and Grey are town but you will need to check for yourself. Greymist seems very concernned about people not listening to him + Blue's tone indicates that he is thinking about who he thinks might be scum. so the mafia are likely in here: Viscera Eyes Bagmanger Eiii Sbrubbles At Lylo, survivors are essencially mafia, thus anti-town. You're making the mistaking of trying to divide people into 3 factions when in fact there are only 2. Pro-town and anti-town. Anti-town (scum and, to a lesser extent, survivors) need to be lynched or shot by vigs. If you are assuming that Blue and Grey are town because your objective is to have them live to the endgame, you're assuming wrong. Of your "scum list", how about you make a case on one of us. Oh, and don't do it on Bagmanager. It's too easy to make a case on a lurker (unless you actually plan on casting your vote for him, then go ahead with your case). I had you as scum before, but seing a faulty analisys that in the end just softly accuses 4 different people (two of whom accused you) while clearing everyone else just made up my mind. The speculation at LYLO is pointless until we know the endgame condition, which we will find out at the next day post. There is no traditional mafia win condition to outnumber town, so I suspect LYLO will not be possible to reach. It's possible that you are right; however as I said above, it seems like a category of survivors in this game have protect lists, in which case their motivation should be to reduce total KP in the game rather than to avoid attracting attention. Yeah, I mentioned that on another post. I'd rather lynch scummy-looking people instead of claimed survivors at least until the endgame condition is revealed (though even afterwards the priority would still be on lynching scum, of course). Still, I highly doubt survivors will be pro-town; their win condition is to wait out the game, not hunt scum. Also, based on the two posts above, I assume you're a survivor. Am I right? As I said, I'm not claiming either survivor or town. I'm claiming that my win condition includes that one of a list of players has to be alive. I may or may not also have a town win condition. The reason I'm dwelling on the survivor question is that my earlier posts about the "surivors" on the tv show "Lost" led people to believe that I'm a survivor. I wanted to clarify that I think both town and survivors should be focused on reducing kp in the game by finding scum, and I went into detail as to why. From the posts earlier in the thread, I suspect a majority of players have a similar win condition (keep one of a list of players alive). I think this question of survivors is important for the town since there is probably a larger-than-usual number of survivors in this game - going again from the flavor and from the fact that we already have one claimed survivor in the game. That only leaves one sweet cheeks.
. . . . . . .
If you only have one cheek it must be hard to sit down.
"not claiming to be X" =/= "claiming not to be X".
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