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So happy my opening post created so much discussion in the way I wanted it to lol. Let's look at some of that discussion.
Firstly, Acro was picked for a number of reasons and these are all important when looking at the reactions from him as well as from others:
1) He's a newbie
2) His very first post is very telling:
He not only takes on a very defensive posting style ("Host didn't say I can't" and "self-deprecating - this is only idle speculation") but he then says we should just ignore WBG while also uselessly speculating about WBG's wincon.
Add his newbie-ness with his defensive posting style and I figured he would probably overreact to people blind voting for him, especially early on. And I was right as this behavior can be seen across all his posts. This by itself (overreacting, being overly defensive) is a null tell when looked at just from the ens of "newbie" and doesn't say much about his alignment.
What says MORE about alignment, however, is how some people have started to react in problematic ways around his posting.
The one that stands out the most to me is Mattchew. He followed my vote for acro with his own vote, a way of creating pressure on a player that many players like to do and is often seen starting off games. However, while most townies deliver on the pressure, he never delivers. He merely posts a lot of one liners and looks like he's tunneling, posting ridiculous things like:
On March 22 2012 03:22 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 03:15 Acrofales wrote:
Any further discussion will have to wait til I'm home. Be back in about an hour.
PS. I read through a couple of games before signing up for this one. It's quite different to play than to watch! :D explain to me why you are not scum. you have 90 minutes
On March 22 2012 05:16 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 03:15 Acrofales wrote:
Any further discussion will have to wait til I'm home. Be back in about an hour.
PS. I read through a couple of games before signing up for this one. It's quite different to play than to watch! :D where you at homeslice and why should i think you are not scum
which is basically this and would never result in pressure in the first place:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=251919
He's obviously been active and in thread all day as can be seen by his frequent posting times (1:00-2:00-3:00 etc) and yet he has not commented on anything else aside from tunneling acro, even when the other stuff happening in thread is tied to acro or has been a reaction to acro's posting. Mattchew has literally added nothing to the discussion while looking like he's applying pressure. It's basically false pressure.
Aside from him, I also found SLJ/sandroba's posting inadequate. He posts a throwaway accusation against lyter and then posts a useless threat about tunneling people who reference ASoIaF too much, which is completely detrimental to the game (ignore the references, hunt scum) and then finally misrepresents Greymist's obvious joke/bait statement about lynching WBG. Step it up please. Syllo/Sandro should be a strong townie team, especially since they have the luxury of having two people posting together. I expect more and we should all be keeping aware of their participation level.
gumshoe's response to Acro's situation was also weird and problematic. His first suggestion to Acro was to role claim. Now, had that been towards a more experienced player I would have less problems with but since it's to a newbie, there was a decently high chance acro might have actually claimed (as can be seen in the recent games where there have been day one role claims). Newbieness? The rest of his posts seem to suggest so but I will be keeping tabs on him as the game goes on.
For now ##unvote: acrofalas
and a few questions to DoYouHas. Aside from him being defensive, is there anything else that makes you think Acro is mafia? What about mattchew's non-pressure? What do you think of greymist? and can you give me a list of the top three people you are suspicious/getting scum reads from?
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On March 22 2012 06:10 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 05:32 MrZentor wrote:Hello people of Mafia! It is I, MrZentor! Anyways, I thought this started a day after it did, so I am a little late to the party.  Let me tell everybody my opinion, so you can get a good read on me! First we have Acrofales overreacting to a vote that didn't have a basis. On March 21 2012 22:54 Acrofales wrote:
Okay seriously WTF. I know I'm new to this game, but voting me for that reason alone makes no sense. In fact, it seems quite a scum move to cast suspicion on people right at the start of the game.
Or am I going overboard and it's just a way of getting people to post at the start of the game? Either way, I'm watching you and risk.nuke. Voting off the bat seems fishy. He then votes for Mattchew. On March 22 2012 00:04 Acrofales wrote:
Hodor's terribly talkative all of a sudden.
Luckily I have better sources than that. The Ghost of High Heart told me that you are scum.
##vote: Mattchew Lyter defends Acrofales. On March 22 2012 02:15 Lyter wrote:
I'd say ignore wbg at least for now, we have absolutely no idea what his motives/intentions could be, when more of a picture is formed then we should come back to it by all means.
I'm not sure on Acrofales, yea he could be flipping a shit cos he got called out so early, but his actions are hardly unlikely for a new guy anyway. Then Mattchew, bad spelling in hand, attacks Lyter for defending Acrofales On March 22 2012 02:21 Mattchew wrote:On March 22 2012 02:15 Lyter wrote:
I'd say ignore wbg at least for now, we have absolutely no idea what his motives/intentions could be, when more of a picture is formed then we should come back to it by all means.
I'm not sure on Acrofales, yea he could be flipping a shit cos he got called out so early, but his actions are hardly unlikely for a new guy anyway. oh so your his scum teammate? I really don't like that Mattchew attacks Lyter for defending Acrofales, who I think at this point is innocent. It also seems silly that Mattchew is 100% positive that Acrofales is innocent over one nooby overreaction. If you look at Mattchew's filter, you will see he only said something slightly helpful when he was asked to; everything else is just him attacking other people without any real reason. For now, I think he is most likely to be scum. then MrZentor, bad reading comprehension in hand, makes a terrible post with his lead point of his slippery slope theory being untrue because Mattchew (who is awesome, sexy and lover of all townies) never even voted for Acrofales!
This is semantics. While you didn't actually vote for him, you bluffed a vote and made it seem like you voted for him. The impression matters. You tried for pressure but then never followed up with real pressure. What kind of pressure will "prove you're not mafia" apply? None.
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This is like the shittiest fake tunneling ever lol. Jackal would be embarrassed if he saw this lol
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On March 22 2012 07:17 chaoser wrote:
This is like the shittiest fake tunneling ever lol. Jackal would be embarrassed if he saw this lol
Not to mention wherebugsgo
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lol
yet he has not commented on anything else aside from tunneling acro, even when the other stuff happening in thread is tied to acro or has been a reaction to acro's posting. Mattchew has literally added nothing to the discussion while looking like he's applying pressure. It's basically false pressure.
so you want me to comment on what I am involved with already? wut?
and all i did was pressure a newbie who had a bad reaction, i just wanted to push him, and make him post some more.
The thread has talked about WBG (which is stupid), Gumshoe's "scumslip" (A common scum tactic to "catch" a townie on) and me/acro
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EBWOP: The thread has talked about WBG (which is stupid), Gumshoe's "scumslip" (A common scum tactic to "catch" a townie on) and me/acro, what else would you like me to talk about? Retarded policy lynches of liars and lurkers OH BOY!
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On March 22 2012 07:35 Mattchew wrote:lol Show nested quote + yet he has not commented on anything else aside from tunneling acro, even when the other stuff happening in thread is tied to acro or has been a reaction to acro's posting. Mattchew has literally added nothing to the discussion while looking like he's applying pressure. It's basically false pressure. so you want me to comment on what I am involved with already? wut? and all i did was pressure a newbie who had a bad reaction, i just wanted to push him, and make him post some more. The thread has talked about WBG (which is stupid), Gumshoe's "scumslip" (A common scum tactic to "catch" a townie on) and me/acro
What "scumslip" are you talking about? Do you mean gumshoe asking acro to roleclaim? How do you know/why do you think it's only a "scumslip" and not an actually scumslip? Why the quotation marks? Are you saying he was baiting with that statement?
At the same time, there were tons of things to talk about. People responding to greymist for one (such as alderan's).
On March 22 2012 03:28 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 03:26 GreYMisT wrote:On March 22 2012 03:22 Mattchew wrote:On March 22 2012 03:15 Acrofales wrote:
Any further discussion will have to wait til I'm home. Be back in about an hour.
PS. I read through a couple of games before signing up for this one. It's quite different to play than to watch! :D explain to me why you are not scum. you have 90 minutes Explain to us why he is. over defensive "im a noob" that doesn't want to be be put in the spotlight. look at his reaction compared to the other "noob" guy with a vote on him. its way more aggressive and emotionally angry.
But no, instead you try to somehow paint acro as mafia by comparing him to another newbie's play stye and saying "the other newbie isn't acting as defensive, that means since they aren't acting the same way, that acro is scummy!" How does that even make sense? How can you compare two player's play styles and then say see! scummy! -_-
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going to work, be back at 10
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i will follow your example of posting about the many many other things going on in the thread
ps. I answer greymist's questions when he asks them of me
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On March 22 2012 07:11 chaoser wrote:
and a few questions to DoYouHas.
1. Aside from him being defensive, is there anything else that makes you think Acro is mafia?
2. What about mattchew's non-pressure?
3. What do you think of greymist?
4. and can you give me a list of the top three people you are suspicious/getting scum reads from?
1. No, not really. Acro's initial posts came off as scummy for reasons I've already mentioned. His posts since have not cleared him in my eyes but they are a big step up from his starting posts. I've left my vote on him because I think he deserves to be under pressure and that pressure produced decent posts from him. Of course, now that I have explained this my vote means very little.
2. I don't like the way mattchew is posting. It is ignoring the fact that not only does he have to prove to himself that he is right, he has to prove to all of us that he is right. His style is alienating people who might agree with him which inherently reduces the value of his posts. You will notice that I am ignoring whether he is right/wrong, scum/town. That is because I don't know. In that last game I was in with him, SNMM7, he had a very similar style and was town. It was equally unhelpful then. So on one hand his meta suggests to me townie, but I find his style to be anti-town.
3. Greymist has pretty clearly aligned himself against Gum/Matt, and for Acro. He has also called BS on a number of things that I think deserved it. Honestly, I expect more from him (also, risk.nuke). Right now I have a null read, but if his trend of small posts continues that will move towards a scum read.
4. I'm going to hold off on that list for a bit. Partially so I can have more time to figure it out, and partially so I can spend more time forming my suspicions and less time defending them.
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On March 22 2012 08:33 DoYouHas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 07:11 chaoser wrote:
and a few questions to DoYouHas.
1. Aside from him being defensive, is there anything else that makes you think Acro is mafia?
2. What about mattchew's non-pressure?
3. What do you think of greymist?
4. and can you give me a list of the top three people you are suspicious/getting scum reads from? 1. No, not really. Acro's initial posts came off as scummy for reasons I've already mentioned. His posts since have not cleared him in my eyes but they are a big step up from his starting posts. I've left my vote on him because I think he deserves to be under pressure and that pressure produced decent posts from him. Of course, now that I have explained this my vote means very little. 2. I don't like the way mattchew is posting. It is ignoring the fact that not only does he have to prove to himself that he is right, he has to prove to all of us that he is right. His style is alienating people who might agree with him which inherently reduces the value of his posts. You will notice that I am ignoring whether he is right/wrong, scum/town. That is because I don't know. In that last game I was in with him, SNMM7, he had a very similar style and was town. It was equally unhelpful then. So on one hand his meta suggests to me townie, but I find his style to be anti-town. 3. Greymist has pretty clearly aligned himself against Gum/Matt, and for Acro. He has also called BS on a number of things that I think deserved it. Honestly, I expect more from him (also, risk.nuke). Right now I have a null read, but if his trend of small posts continues that will move towards a scum read. 4. I'm going to hold off on that list for a bit. Partially so I can have more time to figure it out, and partially so I can spend more time forming my suspicions and less time defending them.
I'd like to clarify on an assumption you are making in here. I am not "for" Acro, I simply do not believe he has as much evidence against him as gum does at this moment in the game.
And you base reads solely of the size of one's posts? Thats a bit old fashioned don't you think?
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On March 22 2012 07:35 Mattchew wrote:
EBWOP: The thread has talked about WBG (which is stupid), Gumshoe's "scumslip" (A common scum tactic to "catch" a townie on) and me/acro, what else would you like me to talk about? Retarded policy lynches of liars and lurkers OH BOY!
what's stupid is everything you've been saying
tbh I still don't know what you're saying
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I'm going to bed. If you have anything else you want answered (quickly), please say so now, or wait until morning (about 8 hours from now).
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I think Mattchew is either scum or useless. Have not decided which yet, but leaning towards scum.
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On March 22 2012 08:33 DoYouHas wrote:
2. I don't like the way mattchew is posting. It is ignoring the fact that not only does he have to prove to himself that he is right, he has to prove to all of us that he is right. His style is alienating people who might agree with him which inherently reduces the value of his posts. You will notice that I am ignoring whether he is right/wrong, scum/town. That is because I don't know. In that last game I was in with him, SNMM7, he had a very similar style and was town. It was equally unhelpful then. So on one hand his meta suggests to me townie, but I find his style to be anti-town.
this is ironic
(from SNMM7)
On February 22 2012 08:58 DoYouHas wrote:
Mattchew, you're my hero.
Good Luck Town!
(I'll save my gg for when we win this thing, HUZZAH!)
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##unvote
##vote DoYouHas
DoYouHas a brain?
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Mattchew, you were my hero in SNMM7 because you defended me and made a case that I thought was good and had pegged many of the mafia (I was half wrong). After I died you failed to take up the leadership role that my endorsement should have garnered you because you were so busy posting 1 liners and pissing people off that you didn't rally people to your cause. You allowed mafia to be the reasonable voices in the town.
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I want to kill greymist and gumshoe about equally much.
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On March 22 2012 09:20 risk.nuke wrote:
I want to kill greymist and gumshoe about equally much.
just to clarify, my original vote for greymist was pressure and I want to lynch him now for other reasons.
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On March 22 2012 09:10 DoYouHas wrote:
Mattchew, you were my hero in SNMM7 because you defended me and made a case that I thought was good and had pegged many of the mafia (I was half wrong). After I died you failed to take up the leadership role that my endorsement should have garnered you because you were so busy posting 1 liners and pissing people off that you didn't rally people to your cause. You allowed mafia to be the reasonable voices in the town.
actually... i was out yelled by sloosh and then had the town turn on me. but that is neither here nor there. The fact still remains that I done nothing wrong or scummy. I have prompted conversation where there otherwise was none. I have put the spotlight on myself and have yet to shy away from it. I have answered all questions asked of me honestly and have explained my reasoning for what I am doing
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EPT
