oh my, what did I do? Looks like I got more for that Gossemerr case that I bargained for...
I just want to make one thing clear: The reason I wrote about a connection between Eleanthas and gossemerr was because I wanted to get gossemerr to talk more. Looks like that worked. Gossemerr could be scum, but I feel way to unsure about that to actually vote for him.
Nevertheless, it's nice to see that several people jumped on the case and it made the whole town more active. Good thing to happen.
Nova_Terra: No offense, but I think you are reading to much into the connection between Gossemerr, Eleanthas and inferno. That case won't hold with those arguments, I'm afraid.
Gossemerr:
On March 16 2012 06:18 Gossemerr wrote:
@Phagga: I never said I did any more analysis / posting than some of you.. I was just pointing out what I thought.
The point is: you can't criticize someone for not doing stuff when you don't do that stuff as well.
Uh, that sounds stupid. Let me try it like this:
If you go and criticize me (or anyone) for lack of analysis/content, then everyone will expect that you have delivered the amount of analysis/content that you say others lack. That's why I brought it up. I still think it would be nice to get some more analysis from you, but at least it seems you start to step your game.
As for the lynch targets: looks like the InfernOokami7 lynch is not happening. However, I'm ok with an Eleanthas lynch. He is still not producing anything relevant and lurking pretty hard. Let's just hope that the replacements for our other lurkers will be more active.
##Unvote: InfernOokami7
##Vote: Eleanthas
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Ok, I just want to make this perfectly clear: When I "hinted" at a connection between Eleanthas and Gossemerr, I made it to provoke a reaction of the two, not because i seriously believed there was one.
About Nova_Terra and me:
Yes, I do agree with some stuff Nova_Terra wrote, but not with all. No, I do not trust him. I don't trust anyone in this game so far.
Yes, we can find connections between people and link mafias together, but for that to work we first need to find mafia, so this should be our top priority. And no, I will not blindly lynch someone only because he agreed at several points with scum. These possible links we have in the thread so far are rather weak. It is possible they exist, but it is also very possible they don't. I also never intended to push a lynch on Gossemerr today, I really wanted to get rid of a lurker (which we did with Eleanthas, although he was not one of the heavy ones).
I feel Nova_Terra is an extremely eager Town who jumps to conclusion a little bit too fast. I currently doubt that he is scum, solely because I think scum would not behave that offensively. On the other side, it could be on purpose, and you see I'm going all WIFOM now, so I'll drop. I don't trust him, but some things he said made sense for me.
Gossemerr:
On March 16 2012 16:03 Gossemerr wrote:
Okay two peeps did not vote - either going to be replaced or killed. I'm guessing that if they were scum they would be participating, well at least vote. I have to say that I'm pretty confident that both are not mafia - so that means probably 2 people whom are actually contributing to the discussion are indeed mafia. Kinda adding to that, so far we have mislynched two town that were lurkers. While it is not that big of deal since they didn't help much, our numbers are dropping fast.
This is wrong. Two people stopped playing completely, either because they lost interest or something in real life keeps them busy. This does NOT tell us anything about their alignement. They could be mafia, vanilla townies or blues, who knows. (Or are you seriously implying that after (for example) someone from my family had a heavy accident, I would be more inclined to play on in this game if I was mafia than if I was town? In such a situation, this game here is irrelevant, no matter what my alignement is).
On March 16 2012 16:03 Gossemerr wrote:
Too me this is really not a defence, just attacks me for my lack of analysis. I never said I was doing more, I never said I was not a hypocrite. But the fact that I didn't really contribute a ton of analysis untill that post does not invalidate my post.
you are in a game where people try to find out the motives of others by reading, analyzing and judging their posts. What do you think is going to happen when you are a hypocrite in such a game? Yes, you get a scummy label really fast.
Also, if you are not contributing, people will assume you try to hide something, which agains means you get a scummy label.
On March 16 2012 16:03 Gossemerr wrote:
How in the world could understanding how the mafia are thinking be bad for us town? If we can accurately figure out why the mafia killed whom they did we can link it back to the individuals involved. Its a integral part of the analysis. If we just ignored all of the night phases and focused only on the outcomes of lynches that would be terrible. In fact that would be what the scum would want from us - to effectively lose half of the game's information. To not worry about their motives and to fight about the mis-lynches. I agree that the staight up kills can be misleading, but thats where the ANALYSIS comes in.
I am going to do this just once, and I hope we can burry this afterwards.
So what are the possible reasons sbrubbles was killed?
- Nova_Terra is scum, he felt the heat and mafia decided to get rid of sbrubbles
- Nova_Terra is town, mafia wants to mess with us and decided to get rid of one of Nova_Terras attackers, sbrubbles
- Sbrubbles was half-lurking, and since mafia knows he is town, they fear he might be a blue.
- Or it was something completely different that I can not think up right now.
So we have now 3 options with completely different motivations. I have my opinions about this too, and I think it was the third option (because scum normally tries to kill of blues as fast as possible). But we can not know for sure. If we want to know more, we lynch Nova_Terra next, but if he is town, that was a blatant mislynch and puts us in a far worse position. And even then, we still will not know if they killed bubbles because he was blue or because they wanted to mess with us. And I haven't even started what it means if Nova_Terra would get killed tonight by mafia.
Also, how are you gonna analyze the motives of scum if you do not even know who they are? You do not know for sure who is scum, so you can only try to analyze posts from people you think are scum, and if they are not, you'll just produce bad results. Perhaps if we lynched a scum, you can go back through is filter and look for hints for the nightkills, but until then, it's all WIFOM.
This is so much WIFOM that it is not worth wasting time on it. And as you are already quite busy (as you wrote earlier), it would be better if you concentrated on finding scum through analysis of posts.
On March 16 2012 16:03 Gossemerr wrote:
Also, I guess my suspicion that Ele wasn't any more scummy than others was right..
But you voted him anyway, so what?
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EPT
