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On March 27 2012 06:08 layabout wrote:
Doc, why don't you tell us what you would like to do today?
Would you like to comment on the pile of bodies that told us to lynch you?
What do you want me to say about the night hits? I had no part in it so I can only assume they're using hits to push mislynches or are blue sniping.
Jaybrundage is who we should lynch today. I believe that he was the traitor and was recruited some point around Cycle 2 or 3. Mafia will be careful with their buses until they pick up the traitor. An early bus without traitor means that scum lose their ability to use a .5 power and 2 hits. It makes sense that they would bus after picking up the traitor. The sharp turnaround in the playstyle of Jaybrundage is what makes me suspect him. After a scummy and wishywashy Day 1 he turns around and acts very brash and confident, asks for roleclaims, etc.
He also tried pretty hard to get himself further town cred off the Kurumi lynch which I still think was a bus. If it was not a bus, the scum team was very very stupid to think that the town would buy Kurumi's claim and they also had no real reason to stop Jackal from getting lynched other than the hopes that he might shoot a town player at some point later in the game. Seeing as he had threatened Caller before, I think that's pretty unlikely. Look who tried to get the cred off of that lynch, look who used it to set himself up for the rest of the game. Hint - it wasn't me.
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Consider also the only person to push a case on me with genuine analysis was Katina who survived. Sandroba's death is irrelevant in regards to me because I have no way of knowing his private conversations with Curu, he never expressed this sentiment in the thread and tbh from what Curu posted it seems like he wasn't even really that sure about it.
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If it wasn't an outright bus, I don't think there was a concerted effort by scum specifically to stop it.
I'm not saying that scum should immediately bus after picking up traitor, I just don't think they would bus before traitor. If you have any arguments not based on what scum would/wouldn't do or the fact that I PM'd Kurumi I'd love to hear them. Again, Katina is the only one who provided any logical reason to vote for me at all.
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On March 28 2012 01:53 Katina wrote:
DrH only has two votes at the moment? We need the votes on him to start coming in.
DrH hasn't been defending himself. He first shrugged off my case against him then he said it was the only one with a genuine analysis. As said before he is throwing around a lot of doubt. He hasn't been contributing anything useful even in the most recent days. DrH said his life was hectic but he posted about forty posts on day one. For someone who claims to have an active life he had time to make ~40 posts day 1 and continues to be one of the most active players. His actions are inconsistent and don't add up.
I wasn't busy around the first two cycles.
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On March 28 2012 03:09 layabout wrote:
Dr.H when you realised that we were likely at lylo what did you resolve to do to ensure town's victory?
Question is meaningless. The amount of effort I put into the game based on personal factors is not indicative of anything besides how busy I am or are not.
Anyway, this is why I believe JB is scum or the traitor. There is a sharp change in his behavior. He begins the game with a very soft stance on LaL. When he comes under fire for what he's talking about, he pulls back a little bit. There is also this gem which is typical of scum "We are unlikely to get a mafia day one
So lynching a bad townie isn't to bad IF we choose to lynch him." TRANSLATION : When lurkers are lynched on the basis of being bad or just lurkers, it's very easy for scum to decide which lurkers are lynched. All they have to do, for example, is say "Hey, let's kill Abenson for lurking" instead of scum lurker Y and when it gets into late game they can swing each lynch where they want it. The problem with killing lurkers fast is that the best does not lead to lurker lynches, only the loudest voice does.
On March 12 2012 09:01 jaybrundage wrote:
Responding to Layabout
There's nothing wrong with putting a vote out there just for the hell of it.
I dont like Rg playstyle (lying like 6 times as town) He even expressed he lied alot
as town so he could get away with lying alot as mafia. We are unlikely to get a mafia day one
So lynching a bad townie isn't to bad IF we choose to lynch him. I was mostly fishing for reactions. Didn't get to many sadly
I say i do agree with lynching liars and Lurkers. However i suggest we use them as guidelines. TL towns dont lynch liars often enough and pushing lurkers to talk and contribute forces mafia to contribute. And in the process mess up
Sharing PMs or not Sharing PMs both have pros and cons. To act like one is simply pro mafia is dumb. I think they both are viable ways to proceed.
Also I put the list of players out. To try to elicit responses from them. I dont want to lost because half our player base isn't contirbuted it doesn't matter if they town or mafia. A town that contributes is a good town. (not spam tho)
I want the lurkers to come out T_T
I dont know about the jackal lynch we could of found a scum. Ill have to go over him. I dont know his meta to well tbh tho.
This players have not posted in the thread yet. And i suggest we lynch one of them.
Katina
VisceraEyes
Node
[Uon]Sentinel
Pandain
RgTheSchoworz
Curu
The part in bold is what worries me the most. Lynch lists are beyond useless, I remember going off on VE for pages about his in Storm which got him so upset he almost quit so I won't beat a dead horse, but I still think it's scummier than not. This post was so early in the game that calling out a lurker is worthless, not only that, he's suggesting we already lynch one of these players just for not posting early into the day.
On March 12 2012 15:18 jaybrundage wrote:
Doc I understand where you coming from. I am not scumhunting. I honestly don't do well day 1.
And i as you dont feel confident in my reads to push anything atm. I still think the jackal lynch makes sense even if mostly based on meta. I also think that our lurkers need to speak up a bit more.
Apologetic and wishy washy. This changes very fast.
On March 14 2012 08:40 jaybrundage wrote:
Hm if this is Town VE I don't know quite what to say I have only seen VE's scum play. XD
Glad Palmar is here funny thing i only seen Palmar's town play XD (And one pro town third party)
Palmar are you going to claim your DT check or not :o.
Tommorow I think we should shoot into one of the scummy lurkers.
Lots of posts like this. He's really just summarizing what's happening and adding useless comments.
On March 15 2012 08:01 jaybrundage wrote:
Hey Doc are you scum?
You should PM and tell me your role
Newfound confidence occurs after he goes after Kurumi. JB calling out Kurumi is what sparked his claim, this does not indicate that JB was town or anything. If this confirms JB to anyone then it must also confirm me because I pushed the case equally hard and voted for Kurumi as well. Don't have a double standard now. As a rule, I'm much less interested in who defends who than just who acts like scum. I'll second guess myself into a corner otherwise.
I never tried to play this lynch for town cred or to "confirm" myself and then fish role claims out of people. Are you kidding me? JB gets away with that?
On March 16 2012 13:49 jaybrundage wrote:
Doc I started the Kurumi lynch are you kidding me?
At this point i should be confirmed town. I was the first to try to lynch kurumi.
ROfl if you think im scum im dont knwo what to say
On March 16 2012 14:23 jaybrundage wrote:
WAIT how is Palmar getting cred for the lynch i pushed. This doesnt make any sense. You guys are delusional. You are assuming Palmar is town based on nothing. He hasn't dont shit this game. Besides kill two townies.
Saying Palmar is confirmed town is pretty retarded. He's not He needs to start pushing good lynches and start doing work as town.
DocH i think your town because you were pushing the Kurumi lynch with me. But your not making sense.
Cant a get a single townie that can be transparent.
I want to lynch Katina next. She was trying to kill node. who was green. And then she tried to get people to look at cases and not lynch Kurumi.
If people think im scum rofl moslty you DocH you think im scum for what reason. Starting a lynch on a scum?
Post a case on me. This case will probably determine to me if your scum or not. So please put some work in it.
Look at JB's logic here. This is the only post that makes me think "bad townie". He seems to genuinely view the game this way:
Town - Only bandwagon or vote for scum. Never vote for a town aligned player.
Scum - Only bandwagon or vote for town. If you vote for scum you're town, if you vote for town you're scum.
Katina is scum for pushing Node when a lot of people suspected him? And me and JB are town because we got Kurumi lynched who was scum? Sorry, that's not how mafia works.
On March 16 2012 16:46 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 14:43 EchelonTee wrote:On March 16 2012 14:23 jaybrundage wrote:
WAIT how is Palmar getting cred for 1. the lynch i pushed. This doesnt make any sense. You guys are delusional. You are assuming Palmar is town based on nothing. He hasn't dont shit this game. Besides kill two townies.
Saying Palmar is confirmed town is pretty retarded. He's not He needs to start pushing good lynches and start doing work as town.
DocH i think your town because you were pushing the Kurumi lynch with me. But your not making sense.
Cant a get a single townie that can be transparent.
I want to lynch Katina next. 2. She was trying to kill node. who was green. And then she tried to get people to look at cases and not lynch Kurumi.
If people think im scum rofl moslty you DocH you think im scum for what reason. Starting a lynch on a scum?
Post a case on me. This case will probably determine to me if your scum or not. 3. So please put some work in it. 1. no you didn't push that. several other people put cases on him, u just accused him of being traitor once. begging for cred? 2. I wanted to kill node too, who was green. that make me scum? Jackal wanted to kill node too. that make him scum? oh wait. 3. hypocrisy~ First off I'm not begging for town cred. I'm demanding it. I did push Kurumi. But don't worry hopefully I'll get another scum tomorrow. Speaking of scum your looking pretty scummy there buddy. Want to go on the docket? Lets see didnt vote for Kurumi check. Trying to discredit a townie check. Let me ask you think ET do you think Katina is scummy and why. Im assuming your answer is going to be no because you know your her scum buddy. And um yea thats about it :D
Trying to discredit a townie? Again, more making cases based on the assumption that he is confirmed. Unbelievable.
JB continues down this path. I believe JB was the traitor, probably rolechecked by scum Night 1 which explains his behavior coming out on Day 2. If Kurumi wasn't a planned bus, it could be a sloppy bus. I was sloppily bussed in HP Mafia and did a sloppy bus on LSB in that game too iirc. Basically, one player says "I'm just gonna bus Kurumi" but the rest of the scum don't go along with it, maybe some do or some don't, or see a chance to make mislynch/nolynch happen near the end and fuck with the vote. It could be any number of reasons.
There is no denying JB had a sharp change of attitude from wishy washy/apologetic and only commentating on nothings/policies to brash, aggressive, confident, arrogant even pushing people and trying to force everyone to think he's confirmed based on nothing more than the fact that he posted a case on someone who was scum. Something I also did. Twice. If you think JB is town and I'm not JUST because I was busy and rude for a little bit (not too strange for me, I've almost been modkilled for rudeness and flaming as town before) and the fact that I PM'd Kurumi because I THOUGHT HE WAS SCUM AND THEN PUSHED HIS LYNCH DAY 2 you are a jubjub.
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And if my activity is that worrying to you Katina, my girlfriend has been moving in with me and we've been back and forth between houses, I've had two job interviews and a family birthday party to attend to and this game just kinda slipped under the radar during all that. It's easy to just pop in, react, flame JB for being a stupid jubjub but this is LYLO and I'm on the hotplate so I hope now that I'm serious some people here will finally think straight.
If you lynch me, it's game over. Look how JB has twisted the game to try to make himself the center of town and attention although he has failed miserably. Palmar got the town circled around him and JB tries to discredit him over and over. Scum. Scum. Scum.
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No, my point 6 was not that EchelonTee is town but that Jaybrundage is arguing from the false position that he is confirmed. He is paranoid and sees any disagreeance with him as either (in my case) "tunneling confirmed town" or "discrediting a townie". If JB is town, these are things that scum and town do in equal parts.
Scum argue with scum and town and town argue with scum and town. Scum lynch scum and town and town lynch scum and town. That's the reality of the game. JB is in complete ignorance of that because he obsessed over this idea of himself being confirmed. I don't think a town player would be dense enough to really believe that or push himself that far into town center territory based off a single lynch.
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If you look at the way JB is playing this game it's that his game is geared toward appearing as though he is town. He tried to get people claiming to him before Kurumi flipped as though he knew Kurumi would just flip red and hope that he would get all the information that Palmar had before he died? That's just speculation but I think that's the sort of play scum were going for. They can sack someone after getting the traitor and still maintain the KP/One Power a night.
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I'm fairly certain from the way Katina has gone after me that she is just a bad townie.
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On March 28 2012 08:11 Katina wrote:
To address some random issues. I have not been activitly lurking and I have not been playing in pm land as I said above anyone who I have been pming with thinks I'm mafia. Thus my willingness to talk to people in pm's has deminished.
I have contributed my reads the entire game not just when I have been pressured. My case against DrH came way before I was even a candidate for being lynched.
Infact Billmurray. DrH is the one who has posted analysis under pressure. As seen by his recent case against Jay. As Layabout pointed out his case is very convoluted and desperate. DrH had promised analysis in the past three days and have only chosen now to give it.
The problem with DrH is that he has refuted nearly all the arguments against him with the fact that he's been busy. He has done little to respond to the points that he's been inconsistent and clearly not acting the way he usually does when he is town. It's not the fact that he says he's been busy because everyone has a life. It's the fact that it's really all he has said. As I mentioned before he never really responded to my case. At first he just brushed it off as whatever and just recently just claimed it was a good analisys.
That's not true.
Let me rephrase good analysis to good reasoning. You're looking at my post behavior and intentions and not making a WIFOM guess based on information town doesn't have like deconduo was. Your arguments fall short, but they come from the right place.
I pushed Jitsu Day 1, I pushed Kurumi Day 2 VERY hard, Caller was an overwhelming bandwagon and there was nothing to push. The only time I didn't push a lynch hard was when I was either too busy (Abenson lynch) or when it was too obvious. I actually had to push Kurumi because it was almost a no lynch. And the one lynch that I pushed super hard killed scum.
I haven't promised analysis either. I said if I found the time I would do something and haven't found the time or care until today. Seeing as it's LYLO and the bandwagon was forming against me, would you rather I said anything?
If I continue as I was, you will think I'm scum. If I shape up and defend myself, apparently that means I'm scum too. What would you like me to do? Go back in time and cancel all my job interviews? My girlfriend has been moving in and I've had a very busy couple of weeks. What exactly would you like me to do about that?
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Please vote for jaybrundage. Katina is playing like a bad townie. She's confident and holding onto her one read, she's nitpicking things that I think are normal for newer town. There are contradictions there but I think scum would be a lot more careful. I believe that town players are more likely to make logical errors and inconsistencies than scum are and I've said this over and over. JB has scummy intentions and motivations behind his postings, Katina does not. If her case against me is putting her in the hotseat there's no reason for her to stick to her guns like this as scum imo, she's acting as town who is convinced I am scum. We can't no lynch. We can't mislynch either. JB is my most confident read and I won't vote for Katina.
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Ah, okay. That makes things slightly better but VE being town has nothing to do with whether or not he was right about anything so it's a basically irrelevant point. Also, thinking someone is scum and them turning out town is not indicative of alignment either.
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My original plan to mason Kurumi was to gain town cred off the notion that scum wouldn't mason a teammate. Deconduo mistakenly thinking Kurumi was the traitor threw a wrench in that, especially since he was the PM checker who I had planned to manipulate into thinking I was confirmed.
I planned a much more elaborate bus of Kurumi in which he made a fake DT claim incriminating Node, setting up Caller's shot, then claimed the person who claimed DT told him that scum must have used frame then the next day Kurumi would claim that DT was Palmar, giving Caller a believable reason to shoot Palmar and then setting up Kurumi to get bussed Day 3 but he ended up doing some dreamer claim when I wasn't paying attention because I was pissed that Caller wasn't just doing what I told him to do and kinda half ragequit the game at that point and stopped caring, plus I got super busy later (that wasn't a lie)
I'm a control freak
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Kurumi was pretty much unresponsive in mafia QT, he just did whatever he wanted. I don't remember planning out that dreamer claim either. It didn't really help us much in the end tbh.
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On March 29 2012 02:22 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 02:14 Curu wrote:
Kurumi your entire claim was so unbelievable and obviously made up that it should have been obvious to everyone you were 100% Mafia.
A Town role that just receives info about the setup? Really? And it just happened to give you stuff about Dreamflower who was being discussed? A Coroner spin-off. Considering it was a half-flip game, an information role checking dead people was likely(or, in that case confirming roles being present). The Dreamflower knowledge was logical - I defended Jackal D1 without a claim and backed it up D2. Nothing wrong here.
it was a bad claim and the poor english made it more obvious, should have went with my DT mason plan
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My lack of activity almost got me killed. If I was more careful in this game I think I might have made the ending a lot easier for us but there was very little coordination with the scumteam. Caller, Kurumi, and myself all really did whatever we wanted and resented each others decisions for the most part.
Katina you really nailed me but you need to work on your tunneling. Your inactivity and complete focus in on me was what got you killed. Try posting more, pressure people you think are scum and get them to slip up.
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I wanted to stack Palmar as soon as he came in but Caller was confident he could manipulate Palmar and wouldn't get lynched if he dayshot him.
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EPT
