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Sorry, no. I'm not letting you get away without answering the question. I'll quote this again:
On March 03 2012 06:07 Pandain wrote: Also anyone who realizes about what Palmar is should note the same for Toast
What does Palmar have to do with anything?
and your harsh reactions to weak accusations
So what, you are admitting your accusations are weak?
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I'm having some major issues with my ISP right now (interent has been down for over an hour). Just in case I don't get back online in time I'm just setting a place holder vote.
Vote: No Lynch
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On March 03 2012 10:17 Mr. Wiggles wrote: There are no No Lynches, you may only vote for other players, or yourself.
Sorry.
##Vote: TheToast
+ Show Spoiler + The issue appears resolved, but I was having problems when I re-enabled windows firewall; also same deal with my router... Either way I think I've almost got it fixed
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+ Show Spoiler +alright, pretty sure the wireless router is dead, but I think I'm good for right now '
Right now Pandain is looking awful scumish to me. He caught my attention with this post again Probulous early in the game:
On March 01 2012 12:57 Pandain wrote: That took a long time to post. Are you hiding something?
It was weird and out of place at the time. Both Probulous and sandro called him out on it and he completely ignored them. He has yet to respond to their accusations. Instead he comes back at me with accusations that I'm scum because I've been too nice this game, based off the one other full game of Mafia I've played.
His accusations have just gotten weirder from there:
Contrast this tone with the others. Looks like hes trying hard to make a good point(with italics + bolding and shit). Not only that but while writing this post he researched other players(shown by his accusations of me, saying how I had 4 posts, noting my play).
Apparently I'm scum because I bold things. wut? I've gone into why these couple of posts are complete BS in my previous posts, so I will refrain from repeating myself here.
These two posts were really what convinced me though:
Also anyone who realizes about what Palmar is should note the same for Toast
On March 03 2012 06:46 Pandain wrote: I didn't call him scum. Anyone who understands will understand, I willl not go into more detail. Given his accusations against me, he's basically making a scum claim against Palmar; then comes back and says he won't elaborate on that. To me, Palmar is reading townish right now. I have no idea where Pandain got this from and since he refuses to elaborate, I can only assume that he's decided to setup one of the most veteran scum hunters in this game for a day 2 lynch.
I think even if most of us though Palmar was scum, no one is going to support his lynch Day 1. So what's the next best thing for scum to do? Yup, set him up for the day 2 lynch. This reads completely scummy to me.
##Unvote ##Vote: Pandain
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Okay people, sorry for being inactive. I started a game of Civ V Friday night and when I looked up again it was Sunday afternoon
On March 04 2012 07:49 Probulous wrote: TheToast You deliberately chose to vote for someone who was not going to be lynched. Your vote was at 11:50 and you voted for Pandain who had two votes at the time. It was obvious that only Sandroba or Misder were possible candidates because everyone had already placed their votes. Yours was last. You effectively chose Misder over Sandroba without saying so. Explain.
How do you know that he wasn't going to be lynched? 10 minutes is more than enough time for two people to change their votes; I've seen it happen before. I wasn't the only one with my vote on Pandain, RG did as well; I think (and still think) there was more than enough reason to vote him for lynch. I also posted my analysis of Pandain, it's not like I just dropped a vote and left. I would have done it sooner but I had IRL stuff that was in the way. Fact is I didn't have a good read on Misder and I was at the time pretty sure Sandro was the SK. I think Pandain was the better day 1 lynch.
As far as Bluelightz goes; lynching him is tricky business. Based on the game I played with him and the past games of his that I've looked through, he is such a bad town player that he is impossible to get a decent read off of. In NMM 1 I was pretty convinced through most of the game he was mafia just because his posting was so random and contained so much fluff. Turns out he was town, but I honestly think we would have been better off lynching him early on to eliminate him as a suspect and stop him from muddying the waters (which I believe I used as an argument for his lynching in that game). If the votes are there at the end of the day, I'll support his lynch but I seriously think he could flip either way.
Sandro; well it looks like I may have been wrong about the SK thing. If this game had an SK we should have seen two killed last night, though I suppose it's possible that the SK and scum both tried to kill RG? I suppose there's a decent chance of that given the fact that RG basically claimed blue. Fact is though that Sandro's posting has been and continues to be strange and pointless as well as very irregular. While there's a chance he could still be the SK, he's leaning scum in my mind. I don't know what to make about the alleged hit, I would think if he was a vet he wouldn't have been so lurky day 1. I would be interested to see what his response to the arguments against him; if it isn't good I'd say he would make a good Day 2 lynch.
Pandain; still tunneling me, still scummy IMO. I don't know why no one else has called him out about the fake blue claim. He claims watcher, get's half the town bandwagoning against AKCT, then after AKCT's response looks completely townish Pandain backs off and claims he was lying about the blue claim. Is that suppose to make me believe Pandain is town? Why was it even necessary to test AKCT?? There was one vote against him Day1, obviously most of town already decided that AKCT was town or at least leaning-town, why waste a fake claim testing him? Why not test one of the other people who are more scum leaning like sandro or Bluelightz? Pandain seems to be convinced I'm scum, why didn't he test me with the fake claim??? This makes no sense at all. The only way it makes sense is in the context that Pandain is scum. AKCT is a newbie who's been reletively quiet this game and hasn't really been aggressive at all. I think Pandain knew he could count on AKCT looking townish when accused. Then Pandain gets to call off the bandwagon and declairs that AKCT is town (seems like everyone else figured that out already without the rediculous theatrics...).
Sorry, but this seems to me like an attempt to frame himself as town, nothing more. Pandain is a vet player, I can see him trying something like this. IMO this whole fake claim changes nothing, Pandain is just as suspicious as before. I'm putting my vote right back on him for Day 2. If the majority isn't there by the end of day 2, I'll consider moving my vote; but right now he is the best candidate IMO for this and the other stuff I've previously posted.
##Vote: Pandain
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On March 06 2012 02:59 Palmar wrote: That's a dumb vote Toast. While Pandain's gambit was hilariously bad, I'd still bet on this being a town-pandain idea rather than scum Pandain.
If it was a town idea, why focus on AKCT? That's the part that has me suspicious, he's been tunneling me all game long then decides to use a fake claim to test AKCT? Why not use it on Bluelightz if he's suspicious of him? It just doesn't make any sense.
In all honesty, the whole fake claim isn't any kind of proof that Pandain is scum. But when taken into account with all the other scummy stuff he's done this game; I think there is a good case for Pandain being mafia. Paperscraps made a good point too, about Pandain tunneling me the whole game then switching to Bluelightz halfway through day 2 is strange too.
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On March 06 2012 04:26 Palmar wrote: can we kill sandroba today? I don't mind then killing pandain later for bad.
.... for bad what?
Frankly I think there is a better case against Pandain. Sandro said a few pages back that he was requesting a replacement, so idk if he's got IRL stuff that's causing him to be lurky. I have to say though the posts he has made so far have been kind of strange and out of place. I want to see if he has any response to the accusations, the vet claim is interesting and could explain some of his posts but he needs to give us some reason to believe this. In all, I think he is a good lynch candidate, but Pandain is better IMO.
Palmar, seriously, who writes this:
On March 05 2012 06:29 Pandain wrote: Also I know this is going to come up so to get it out of the way:
1. There is NO reason I would do this if mafia. Think of one. Please. Tell me.
He does some stupid blue fake claim then tells everyone that this means he can't possibly be mafia. Seriously wtf is this?
When have you ever seen a town player do this?
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On March 06 2012 05:02 Paperscraps wrote:
Side note: TheToast is scum.
Would you like to explain that or are you just going to sling unsupported accusations at me?
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On March 06 2012 05:27 Paperscraps wrote: Have you been playing this game?
Idk have I? Maybe I just imagined it? O.O
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On March 06 2012 06:42 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 01:14 TheToast wrote:On March 04 2012 07:49 Probulous wrote: TheToast You deliberately chose to vote for someone who was not going to be lynched. Your vote was at 11:50 and you voted for Pandain who had two votes at the time. It was obvious that only Sandroba or Misder were possible candidates because everyone had already placed their votes. Yours was last. You effectively chose Misder over Sandroba without saying so. Explain.
How do you know that he wasn't going to be lynched? 10 minutes is more than enough time for two people to change their votes; I've seen it happen before. I wasn't the only one with my vote on Pandain, RG did as well; I think (and still think) there was more than enough reason to vote him for lynch. I also posted my analysis of Pandain, it's not like I just dropped a vote and left. I would have done it sooner but I had IRL stuff that was in the way. Fact is I didn't have a good read on Misder and I was at the time pretty sure Sandro was the SK. I think Pandain was the better day 1 lynch. This is not an explanation. Like you said there was 10 minutes left. So you drop a vote on someone who was neither first or second on the list. When you made that vote you were effectively choosing Misder. If there was only 10 minutes left, why did you leave it there? You say "it's not like I just dropped a vote and left" but either you did leave the thread immediately, or you chose to keep your vote on someone who was clearly not getting lynched. The fact that you say "I was at the time pretty sure Sandro was the SK" and he was second in votes yet you didn't vote for him is damning in my eyes. Updated scum list Sandroba TheToast Bluelightz
So everyone who didn't have their votes on Misder or Sandro are auto-scum? I didn't think either of the top lynch candidates were scum, so who was I suppose to vote for? SK is going to go after scum first, so even if I was right abou that it wouldn't have been as helpful as killing scum Day 1. Pandain was the best candidate, that's who I voted for.
I don't know why you're trying to pin this on me. I'm not one of the idiots that jumped on the lynch Misder bandwagon. I put my vote on scum; I'm not responsible for what the rest of you did Day1. I didn't "effectively" choose Misder, he was lynched by the three idiots who hopped on the bandwagon.
What's your argument here Probulous? Would I look less scummy in your eyes if I had voted to lynch a townie? Pandain is scum, that's who I voted to lynch.
I wasn't the only vote on Pandain, RG had his vote on him too. Why is that? Maybe it's because Pandain looks scummy as all hell? That was two votes on Pandain, only two people would have needed to switch to make the lynch. Same exact fucking situation for Palmar. Paperscraps & Adam4167 were both on Palmar, and Adam4167 posted less than two hours before the deadline. Why didn't he switch his vote, after all Palmar had no chance of getting lynched? Maybe it was because Adam had reason to believe Palmar was scummy.
Probulous the logic you are using is what allows scum to start the lynch bandwagons like they used against Misder. This idea that everyone has to vote one or two candidates is exactly what Mafia loves as it allows them to railroad town into picking between two townies. It's up to town to vote for who they think is scum, not who they think have the best chance of getting lynched. News flash, townies ALWAYS have the best chance of getting lynched.
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On March 06 2012 07:07 Probulous wrote:I try and make this brief - You didn't think Misder was scum
- You thought sandroba was SK
- Both had the same number of votes but Misder reached there first.
- You voted Pandain.
- Misder gets lynched.
You were around when the lynch went down, you could see that no-one was switching. Pushing for a Pandain lynch is fine but you cannot deny that you chose not to lynch the SK. Now you say that the SK would be working for town. That's a big assumption. How do you know he shoots straight? More importantly you chose to let someone you didn't think was scum die just so you could vote for Pandain. Either you did drop your vote and leave in which case you have lied to us, OR you watched Misder get lynched (someone you thought was town) and chose to keep the SK alive.
I don't think it's an assumption at all. Allow me to quote something the late RG wrote:
On March 02 2012 03:48 rgTheSchworz wrote: it s probable that we dont have an SK. Either way, he is town at first, cause Mafia are his enemies. He doesnt want to end up alone Vs scum, cuz scum know who s scum and can find him pretty easily. So, Mr SK, we lynch u after all scum have gone,ok?
RG's point was really good. If SK takes out town first, SK looses the game. Simple as that. Early on SK is essentially an extra vig for town. Makes no sense to kill them when there is a practically confirmed scum player.
And I didn't LET anyone die. You all were quite capable of changing your votes. Stop trying to stick the Misder lynch on me. I didn't hop on the bandwagon, I didn't vote for him. I would have posted my analysis against Pandain earlier but I was seriously having IRL interet issues. If that makes me scum, then whatever, there's nothing I can do to confirm myself as town then apparently.
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On March 06 2012 07:43 Probulous wrote: Now you say that the SK would shoot mafia. That much is obvious. I go back to my previous point. He doesn't know who mafia are (he could shoot town) and we have to kill him before the end of the game. Obviously it is better to lynch mafia over the SK, but it is better to lynch the SK over town.
Probulous, by your logic vig's should all be lynched day 1 too. Because that's exactly what the SK is, an extra town vig. I've given my reasons for what I did and honestly, you aren't the mayor here so I don't have to defend myself to you anymore that I have already. Pandain is scum. I wanted to lynch him. That's all there was to it.
As for proving you're town, a defense that I might have accepted would have been that you misread the voting rules and thought a no-lynch was going to happen. Or even if you could point to somewhere in your filter where you say that both Misder and Sandroba are town (that's what Adam did).
What is this? Fine, next time I'll lie to you and tell you what you want to hear. lol Also Sandroba is not town, that much is pretty obvious.
On March 06 2012 07:43 Pandain wrote: There's no reason to vote sandroba, he's not scum(no resistance at all)so that leaves either sk or town. Rather than vote him, we should merely track him. This will effectively negate any chance of him shooting again. I do believe he's sk but feel this is A better alternative as it encompasses all the reasons we would want to lynch sk without the risk of lynching town. We should use today instead as an opportunity to lynch scum.
I would have agreed with you before Day 2. See the thing is, SK has 1kp per night. So where is the second night 2 hit? Sandro so far is the only one to have claimed vet and says he took the hit. Are we to assume he shot himself? I suppose there's a chance that both the SK and mafia hit RG, but that doesn't seem terribly likely.
This set off alarm bells for me. I took a look at your filter Pandain, what's interesting is that this is the first time you've really discussed Sandro at all. And to come out arguing that he could possibly be town? Really? Sandro is not town this game. He's been lurky and posting weird pointless short fluff. I don't understand where you are getting this from.
I'm leaving work now, so I'll be posting a bit more detailed explanation of my thoughts in a bit. But after this, my leading scum suspects are Pandain and now Sandroba.
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On March 06 2012 08:20 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 08:01 TheToast wrote: Probulous, by your logic vig's should all be lynched day 1 too. Because that's exactly what the SK is, an extra town vig. I've given my reasons for what I did and honestly, you aren't the mayor here so I don't have to defend myself to you anymore that I have already. Pandain is scum. I wanted to lynch him. That's all there was to it. A vig that shoots repeatedly and wins when town dies is not the same as a normal vig. You can't deny that the existence of a SK is a danger to town. It means there is more KP around that needs town to die to win. Like I said, it makes sense for an SK to go after mafia but ultimately he has to go after town as well. So as town we lynch Mafia>SK>Town.
Why didn't you bring any of this up yesterday when I came up with the sandro is SK theory? I suppose it makes sense, but I still say if there is a confirmed scum you vote them over the SK. Pandain is confirmed scum IMO. If in your terrible reasoning that makes me scum, then whatever.
On March 06 2012 08:37 Pandain wrote: I actually change my mind, but mainly for two reasons:
1. By having tracker continuously track him, it wastes tracker time when he could be finding more scum(and tracker tracking new people is arguably more important then finding out more evidence). 2. Mafia KP is hidden, so the SK might not actually exist.
1. Toast calls out Pandain for defending Sandro 2. Pandain 180s and decides to lynch sandro
Calling it now, Pandain Sandro scum team.
Sandro's lurkiness makes me think he's not a vanilla mafia, possibly a vig. Pandain can wait for day 3.
##Unvote ##Vote: Sandroba
Eating dinner now, I'll post a nice long analysis later.
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On March 06 2012 11:09 Jackal58 wrote: I don't think Sandroba is going to flip scum. He claimed he was looking to be replaced. Nobody has voted against or argued against his lynch. If sand is scum they are bussing him.
I think you are wrong.
Sandro originally caught my attention for his posts, they've been really irregular to start, clearly he's been pretty lurky this game. Of the few there are, almost all of them have been really pointless, strange, and full of fluff. Originally day 1 I was thinking SK, it seemed to make sense given how lurky he is and what has seemed to be him trying to avert attention from himself. As soon as I made this accusation against him he immediately voted for my lynch day 1. Who immediately votes to lynch someone for one post?
Despite there being no second kill night one (doesn't prove no SK, votes could have stacked) the real evidence for me was Pandain's reaction to sandro's imminent lynch. Pandain has barely even recognized sandro's existence this game then posts this:
On March 06 2012 07:43 Pandain wrote: There's no reason to vote sandroba, he's not scum(no resistance at all)so that leaves either sk or town. Rather than vote him, we should merely track him. This will effectively negate any chance of him shooting again. I do believe he's sk but feel this is A better alternative as it encompasses all the reasons we would want to lynch sk without the risk of lynching town. We should use today instead as an opportunity to lynch scum.
So here's Pandain basically defending sandro saying he could be town. Take a look at sandro's filter for this game, there's no way that he is town. Sandro's town play looks nothing like this. I called Pandain out and posted this (spoilered)
+ Show Spoiler +On March 06 2012 08:01 TheToast wrote: I would have agreed with you before Day 2. See the thing is, SK has 1kp per night. So where is the second night 2 hit? Sandro so far is the only one to have claimed vet and says he took the hit. Are we to assume he shot himself? I suppose there's a chance that both the SK and mafia hit RG, but that doesn't seem terribly likely.
This set off alarm bells for me. I took a look at your filter Pandain, what's interesting is that this is the first time you've really discussed Sandro at all. And to come out arguing that he could possibly be town? Really? Sandro is not town this game. He's been lurky and posting weird pointless short fluff. I don't understand where you are getting this from.
I'm leaving work now, so I'll be posting a bit more detailed explanation of my thoughts in a bit. But after this, my leading scum suspects are Pandain and now Sandroba.
Just over a half hour later Pandain goes a complete 180 and posts this:
On March 06 2012 08:37 Pandain wrote: I actually change my mind, but mainly for two reasons:
1. By having tracker continuously track him, it wastes tracker time when he could be finding more scum(and tracker tracking new people is arguably more important then finding out more evidence). 2. Mafia KP is hidden, so the SK might not actually exist.
All that reasoning about the tracker/no lynch plan? Out the window! No clearly it was all just a terrible idea, screw it just lynch him!
This is clearly a scum move. He defends him with a ridiculous argument then after getting called on it completely back tracks but does so in a way that attempts to make it look like the result of some logical reasoning. Sorry, nope.
Pandain is scum and this little diddly of a post convinced me he's trying to protect Sandro and then bailed when I called him out on it. My guess is Sandro is a vig or medic. It explains why he was lurking all game and why he's been trying to keep attention off himself. Also explains why Pandain has practically ignored him this game and why he tried this clumsy defense. Also explains why there was no second kill night 1 (because there is no SK)
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On March 06 2012 11:57 Probulous wrote: Waiting for a typical TL last minute vote switch that leads to a medic outing themselves and a no-lynch. This game has been pretty boring. Half the time I end up talking to myself.
lmao.
And I was right about BF that time too, that's what made it all the worse.
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Wow Snarfs with some nice analysis. Paper's scum hunting this game has really been pretty lackluster so far this game. I don't know that makes him scum, but definitely a reason to keep an eye on him.
This caught my eye though:
On March 06 2012 21:04 Paperscraps wrote: Also on side note: Since Sandroba flipped mafia. What does everyone think of the hit claim?
1. The hit claim was fake. 2. The hit was real and mafia/town medic saved Sandroba?
There is a lot of wifom here. Thinking about this could help determine if there is an SK or not.
It's interesting that you are the one who asked this question, given your last minute vote change day 2.
But let's set that aside for a minute and address this question. Two possibilities here, the hit on Sandro was real, or the hit on Sandro was made up BS. Let's assume:
The hit on Sandro was real: In this case we either have a vig or an SK. In the case of a vig, I would think they would have claimed by now. After a vig uses their shot they are basically not really a danger to scum anymore, other than being a confirmed townie. (in NMM 1 prphlz made it all the way to the end of the game after claiming vig) So really, there isn't much good reason for a vig to not to claim, especially in a circumstance where a claim could have really helped determine a players alignment and determine if there is an SK in this game.
If the hit was real, I think the most likely circumstance is an SK. Let's assume that the SK hit Sandro and a medic protected him. From the point of view of the SK, Sandro's vet claim would have probably seemed decently legit. This makes me wonder about the people who made passionate strange defenses of Sandro Day 2 (after all the SK would want to keep town around and kill mafia). In this theorectical situation the people who come out looking SK-ish are Jackle and Paperscraps (that's where I tie this in with my previous point about Paper being the one to ask this question) for their aversion to voting Sandro. Neither provided very good reasoning for not voting Sandro, could have been they believed the vet claim. The other person that I would have to give a big FOS to in this situation would be Pandain, his bizzare defense of Sandro then flip-flop seems really strange. Maybe he also had good reason to believe Sandro's claim?
The hit on Sandro was fake: If the hit was fake, SK could still exist (shot stacked with mafia shot on RG?). But this seems less likely, RG basically fake claimed blue and alluded that he was going to hit sandro night 1. From the POV of the SK, this would be a good thing. I just don't see why the SK would have a reason to hit RG, now that we know for sure Sandro wasn't the SK. So, more than likely if Sandro's claim is fake there is no SK.
I happen to have my doubts that mafia would risk fake claiming a hit, but Sandro's play this game has been so weird I suppose it's a distinct possibility. In this case that it was fake, there's really not much that tells us. If we can later prove somehow that the hit was fake then FOS should probably go on the people that were pushing really hard to find the SK, probably scum who were working with Sandro to drum up some fake SK lynches. The problem is, if there is a Mafia vig or if the SK decides to not kill night 2, this could be almost difficult to prove.
So if a town Vig took a shot on Sandro, that could prove there is no SK. I highly doubt SK would choose not to kill night 1 given how easily it could be passed off as a vig hit and the difficulty the SK faces in winning this game. So if there's a vig who did take a shot on Sandro Night 1 and we see two kills tonight, role claim!!! as that would prove there is a Mafia vig and stop us from wasting time looking for an SK.
Other than that, I think it's wise to proceed as if Sandro's claim was real. If it was, this could potentially lead us to the SK given what I said above. I'm not suggesting we lynch anyone based on Sandro's info (that would be stupid), but it could lead us in the right direction. If he was lying, then we go in the wrong direction for a bit. But if he was telling the truth we could use it to identify the SK.
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On March 07 2012 06:46 Probulous wrote:As for this Show nested quote +On March 06 2012 21:04 Paperscraps wrote: Also on side note: Since Sandroba flipped mafia. What does everyone think of the hit claim? 1. The hit claim was fake. 2. The hit was real and mafia/town medic saved Sandroba? I've explained my reasoning why I think the shot was real. Why would a mafia sandroba claim veteran with such a weak claim? If he wanted to get credit for it he would have celebrated the shot, make it clear to everyone he was targeted. Instead he responds to something else and then casually mentions the fact. It makes sense that he was shot given his reaction to it. This means scum have a medic and we have a SK. Vig would have claimed by now.
Agreed about the vig.
The problem that we have is whatever happens Night 2 doesn't prove anything. Two kills could mean Mafia have a vig, only one kill could mean SK decided not to submit their night action. Second one seems unlikely, but it could potentially throw everyone off. If they did this we wouldn't know about the SK until Night 4, possibly Night 5 if they did a successful fake town vig claim. So figuring out the validity of Sandro's claim is pretty important. Again, if there's a vig that hit sandro day 1 you need to role claim.
While I agree with you, thing is Sandro's play was really weird this game. I don't know that we can assume anything, but as I said before, I think we should proceed under the assumption that Sandro's claim is true. If it's true, we get a good lead, if not then nothing happens (as long as we are smart and don't lynch anyone based only on his claim).
If Sandro's claim is true, and there is an SK; top people to question/track/watch should be Paper, and Jackal.
Jackal and Paper borth for their defense of sandro; if they thought he was a vet (since their shot didn't kill him) they may have seen this as an opportunity to get on the opposite side of a town lynch and make themselves look townish.
Pandain is the other person I have in mind for his vote reversal thing on Day 2, but as I think about it the whole fake blue claim thing doesn't seem like something the SK would do. If he did try to shoot Sandro night 1 and was unsuccessful, it doesn't stand to reason that he would need to divert attention from himself--he would be suspect #12 or #13 in that particular investigation. It does make sense for scum to do that to try to start a bandwagon or to take that risk to be confirmed town. But as for SK, I guess it doesn't make sense when he wouldn't be remotely suspected for the action.
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On March 07 2012 23:00 Bluelightz wrote: Okay guys im here, I'll explain a few things before my pitiful defense.......
First, I posted in Kaller Game because it was easier :p and thinking up a defense isnt easy when you have to leave for school soon :3
Um.... what? The really stupid thing is, I've seen you post dumber things in games where you turned out to be town. I don't know what the hell your alignment is this game but at this point your just making things worse....
On March 07 2012 16:21 Paperscraps wrote: @Pandain: Why would I claim I shot Jackal if I was scum? There is no motivation as scum to do this. Unless I was tracked or something, in which I would have to cc of course. I really don't get your logic here.
hmmm Q: If a vig takes a shot and the target is protected by a medic, does the vig get that shot back? That is, can they then hit another target?
Just thinking about Sandro's claim and trying to determine whether or not an SK exists in this game.
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On March 07 2012 23:48 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 23:24 TheToast wrote:On March 07 2012 23:00 Bluelightz wrote: Okay guys im here, I'll explain a few things before my pitiful defense.......
First, I posted in Kaller Game because it was easier :p and thinking up a defense isnt easy when you have to leave for school soon :3
Um.... what? The really stupid thing is, I've seen you post dumber things in games where you turned out to be town. I don't know what the hell your alignment is this game but at this point your just making things worse.... On March 07 2012 16:21 Paperscraps wrote: @Pandain: Why would I claim I shot Jackal if I was scum? There is no motivation as scum to do this. Unless I was tracked or something, in which I would have to cc of course. I really don't get your logic here.
hmmm Q: If a vig takes a shot and the target is protected by a medic, does the vig get that shot back? That is, can they then hit another target?Just thinking about Sandro's claim and trying to determine whether or not an SK exists in this game. If a target is protected by a medic, and a vig shoots them, the medic protection absorbs the shot. They cannot shoot another target.
Well crap. We're in WIFOM country again.
So in all Night #2 didn't clear anything up at all, we're right back where we started. If Sandro was telling the truth, there is almost certainly an SK. If he was lying, there's no SK. I was hoping for something more difinitive after night 2 :/
I'm not sure at the moment where Paper stands (he has changed his focus pretty quickly to Adam), but I do know that if he is a vig he has the worst timing ever.
On March 07 2012 17:31 Probulous wrote:- You are assuming there is an extra kill point
- Therefore there must be a medic save/SK not claiming/whatever
- Therefore there is a SK.
Simpler to just assume that there is no extra kill point until someone claims.
Yes and no. If we have a medic who saved someone last night, it would probably be better they don't claim for the moment as it would probably just end up getting them killed Night 3. Plus since mafia could have a vig, right now a medic claim wouldn't help at all in determining whether there is an SK. If there is a real vet who got hit, then they should absolutely claim. A vet would be an unlikely target for mafia Night 3, and it would at least help us narrow down the options. Given that we have lost our watcher, losing a medic wouldn't be worth that information.
The absense of a medic/vet claim also doesn't necessarily prove anything. As I mentioned before, SK could have decided not to submit a night kill at all in an attempt to convince us there is no SK. That seems unlikely given the odds against the SK, but then again that may be the very reason the SK decides to do it (welcome to WIFOM city). So unless there is a vet that got hit (which seems unlikely) we are exactly back at the start of Day 2 in terms of figuring out if there is an SK--all comes back to whether Sandro's claim was real or not.
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On March 08 2012 03:09 Paperscraps wrote: Also everyone needs to look at TheToast's question very closely.
I asked because I wanted to see if it was possible that vig (potentially you) could have taken a shot at Sandro night 1 as well as the shot on Jackle night 2. I wanted a clarification on the rule, as if vig gets their shot back you could claim that you took a shot at Sandro and claim that makes you town; or if you failed to claim one way or the other on that shot I would be looking into it a bit more. Either way it's completely irrelevant given that vig's only get one shot. (assuming you really are a vig)
As I said before several times, I'm proceeding as though Sandro's claim was real. If it turns out he was lying we lose nothing (assuming we don't lynch anyone based on his claim) and if he was telling the truth it could lead us to the SK.
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