EPTNewbie Mini Mafia IV
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
Fuck, forgot to sign in with the correct account >_> Here's the post again: Didn't realise I joined this, thought Ceph would do it in the next game, lol Anyways, I (gonzaw) shall be refered to as Hyde from now on (just to stay in character). First of all, as much discussion as the no-lynch/lynch thing brings, it totally fucking sucks for finding scum. Scum are less likely to say they want a NL, knowing EVERYBODY at TL HATES NLs. However, that's WIFOM, and pretty bad one at that since it's useless info basicly. If you want my opinion then I always prefer lynches, unless I think the lynchee is town, in which case I prefer a NL, that's it. About the soft-deadline: It may work for organizing town and avoiding last-minute switches, however it can draw away discussion and make us waste time, specially those 8-12 hours afterwards. I'd just encourage townies NOT to last-switch votes, NO MATTER WHAT. If it means having a NL, then you keep your vote on the player it is, since last-minute bandwagons are the worst thing that can happen to us. Second of all: What the fuck is wrong with fourface? His posts are a pain in the ass to read, like seriously. Reminds me of gumshoe on SNMM7. However, I don't see how the hell he can be scum. He's putting himself in the spotlight just by being so crazy and outspoken, specially with that crappy "trap" he made. This makes me suspicious of the other ones basicly "falling for it" and "thinking" FF is scum, specially these: On February 27 2012 09:37 Chocolate wrote: wtf is going on fourface.. that's NOT how you should defend yourself at all. I could barely even tell what the point of that post was. From now on try to be concise with your posts,, i.e. don't post a bunch of useless fluff to make your post longer, because that is scummy. I'm going to vote for you for the time being because that was really weird. If you sufficiently explain yourself and start to make sense I will unvote you. @ghost you thought I was scummy because I voted on a lurker? I don't see anything wrong with that at all, please explain why you dislike it. Wtf is this? You vote for him just because he made a weird post? You think he's scum because of it? + Show Spoiler + On February 27 2012 06:36 DoYouHas wrote: Alright, I have seen a few things already that I don't like and I'm ready to throw some suspicion around. FourFace I don't like that his first post places unwarranted suspicion on the hydras. He could argue that he was just putting pressure on them, but this post shows he doesn't quite understand how to put pressure on someone properly yet. I also don't like his lack of opinion on the soft deadline (thanks for the phrase slOosh). He says he is waiting for a thorough pro/con discussion. But a few of us had already provided pros, so in order to be ambivalent to the idea he must have had some cons in mind, but chooses not to post them. 1. Lowering our expectations of him. Not a big deal, it is a newbie game. 2. Wants to lynch lurkers over suspicious people... unless they are posting advice and protocol. That is what would make a person suspicious enough to FourFace that they need to be voted over a lurker. Seems a bit off to me. At best this statement is wishy-washy and means nothing. At worse it reveals FourFace to have a skewed point of view. 3. This whole section says 1 thing of value. In a worst case scenario, a no-lynch on day1 gives us 1 more day of play before game over. The rest is pointing out the obvious, needless speculation, and trying to get others to jump on board with discussion about the setup. I think that the majority of this first post, while big, says almost nothing. Very suspicious. (I'm taking the spoilers out of this next one) Pro - Not vote for who you think is scum, vote for who you think benefits the town the least. Pro - FF seems to want to rely on blues to provide us with information. And speculation on who gets shot by scum tends to be WIFOM and useless. FF downplays the value of information gained by a lynch, up-plays the value of information gotten by a mafia hit. And goes back to blues for actually figuring the game out. This is a very wrong way of looking at the game. Con - First off, it isn't a 40% chance, it is closer to a 29% chance. 4/14, not 4/10. Secondly, FF has wandered into random lynch territory instead of staying on pro/con for nolynch. I don't like it one bit. Con - Just like in his pro-nolynch argument he is espousing voting for those who are least valuable to town, not scum. I italicized the statement in this section that I just hate and think betrays FF's attitude. I asked you all to have a purpose in mind when you posted things. So what is the purpose of this post? From what I can see the purpose of this post is to foment conflict between gumshoe and Alderan, to undercut/place suspicion on Steveling, and to hint at a secret strategy. Also, wtf is with this statement, "I don't know, lynch me". As to that secret strategy, I sure hope an integral part of it is letting us know that a trap is out there. Because if it isn't then all you have done is made people more afraid to post for fear of stepping into your trap. So if your trap doesn't depend on letting us know that it exists, you are acting very scummy. ##FOS: FourFace Okay, so why does that make FF scum? That makes him a HORRIBLE townie, perhaps, but how the fuck does the no-lynch talk about "wanting to lynch the person least benefits town" makes him scum? You know better than that DYH, why are you going after the "easy" target? Or are you just "making a purposefully bad case to draw out reactions" like sloosh did last game? On February 27 2012 07:49 Janaan wrote: So FourFace, pretty much all I got out of that post was that you don't like Mafia guides, and that you're readily admitting that you lied when you told me there wasn't a reason why you voted for JekyllAndHyde. That's not really a very good start to defending yourself in my opinion. You say that DYH and gumshoe made "good observations", that you were waiting for FF to defend himself, and now you say that wasn't a very good start to defending himself. ....so? What do you think about it? Did that convince you he was scum or not? On February 27 2012 07:50 ghost_403 wrote: FourFace, I have no idea what game you're playing here. Your rants about insanity are baffling to me even on repeat readings. The only thing worse than scum in a game are townies that waste other peoples time while they are looking for scum. Instead, we have to identify and ignore your madness, which is insanely counter productive. As far as your trap, still don't know what you're going for there. Once the game starts, people have a responsibility to actually be playing. If they can't make it, they tell the GM and he replaces them; not a big deal. My head still hurts. So, do you think he's scum, or a "townie that wastes other people's time while they are looking for scum"? @gumshoe: What exactly makes you think his play mirrors Steve's from last game? Steve didn't talk crazy and didn't propose a "trap" as far as I remember. I just advice all of you to just ignore what he says until he starts taking this game seriously. I get the feeling he's town, and I wouldn't want an "easy misslynch" on D1. So FF, for fucks sake stop trolling. On February 26 2012 15:40 slOosh wrote: Hi all. This will be my third newbie game. Current thoughts so far: I really like the idea of the soft deadline to avoid last minute switching, but I would only implement it day 1. From personal experience (my 2nd game T.T), trying to enforce a soft deadline where everyone votes can be very detrimental to town as it has the possibility of stifling discussion / people rushing to make poorly built cases as Janaan mentioned. As for this idea of lynching lurkers, how would it interact with the deadline? Say we are at soft deadline and there are several lurkers. We vote one, and they happen to respond by producing good content and such. Then we would have to choose the next lurker, but that would bring us closer to the true deadline and thereby defeat the whole purpose. There isn't really a feasible way to choose lurkers with a comfortable cushion of time before the deadline. I'd rather we just start keeping each other accountable and make sure everyone is contributing right away. I know that in the ObsQT from prior games people have pegged mafia day 1, and I think we should aim for that goal, pressuring inactives so that we don't have to worry about last minute lurker switches. Okay sloosh. You were pretty active last game, why did you go lurking all of a sudden? Also, I'm starting uni tomorrow so I won't be very active. Let's hope my counterpart can counteract that. /Hyde | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
On February 27 2012 11:28 Qatol wrote: Play nice please. Also, I mentioned earlier that I don't like unnecessary cursing. The post above me is the kind of thing I was talking about. I can understand if it was a heated moment, but this isn't really one. I'm just staying in-character, I'm not "heated up" or anything  On February 27 2012 11:37 DoYouHas wrote: I'm so glad you are in this game Hyde :D, You are absolutely right. There is a reason my case ended with a FOS instead of a vote. I had 3 things in mind when I made my case. 1. FF's early posting was either bad townie or scummy. I wanted to draw FF out and get a response from him in hopes of figuring out if he leans town or scum. My case wasn't conclusive on him as scum, but it was strong enough to warrant a response. 2. I wanted to move past the point of talking about policy and start getting into the real discussion. The best way of doing this is to give the town a solid piece of analysis to start playing with. 3. I wanted to gauge the responses of others to my case. (You kind of blew this for me when you posted, but that's ok.) After his response I am leaning town for FF. Why? Because of the timestamps. FF posted his fairly long response to me 66 minutes after I posted my case against him. If you look at his pre-game posts, FF was brand new and fairly oblivious to previous games (mentioning that he did not know the abbreviations and such). That tells me that it is VERY unlikely that he is playing off gumshoe's meta from last game for 2 reasons. I find it hard to believe that FF could have read my case, gone to a scumQT, asked for help, received it in the form of "play off gumshoe's meta", written up his post, and have it checked by that scumQT, and posted it in 66 minutes. It's possible, but super unlikely. That leaves me with the option that he read SNMM7 after this game started and decided on his own to play off gumshoe's meta, also super unlikely. So, to me, the craziness of his response is geniune. Which makes me lean town for him. For now. Okay, fair enough. I find that "ask the scum QT for tips on playing off gumshoe's meta" situation unlikely if he was scum. If he decided to act crazy and was scum, well, I'm sure he decided so from the getgo and not from being indecisive and being "convinced" by his scumbuddies. Nothing to do with timestamps. However, I find it unlikely that he would decide to act like this from the get-go, I've never seen a noob scum act like this before, and until I do I'm gonna believe he's town. On February 27 2012 13:02 Janaan wrote: At the moment, I'm leaning toward noob townie, much like my read on Gumshoe last game, but I'll probably keep a close watch on his posts. I was really hoping that FourFace would post again, maybe try to clarify his post at least, but he's still nowhere to be found. You should have mentioned that before though, since it didn't seem you implied that at all. On February 27 2012 13:02 slOosh wrote: I decided to take a slower approach to the game. Last game I came out guns blazing, argued with a townie and then tunneled another one hard, allowing mafia to lurk and get away with posting fluff. I really want to fight my tendencies to tunnel / confirmation bias so I'm taking it as slow as I can. But being mindful of a deadline, I'll try posting what I have progressively rather than waiting until the eleventh hour to post a big case. Hopefully this will quell paranoia and promote a healthy town atmosphere. You do know that "not tunneling =/= not pushing who you think is scum", right? You don't need to "tunnel" to make yourself heard, and you don't need to just stay under the radar and don't push your reads in the "fear" of "tunneling a townie". @ghost, why are you ignoring all these cases and FoSes against you? I'm not convinced about a ghost or Choco lynch though. Like I said before, people's opinion on lynches is not an alignment tell to me, so this whole thing about ghost "being intent on lynching", or choco wanting to "lynch lurkers" doesn't convince me. I still want their responses to me though. Either way, we are achieving nothing this day. Nobody posts, nobody responds to the cases made against them (with the exception of Janaan). FF trolls and clogs up the thread, some people vote for lurkers, others for ghost/choco, and we are like 7 hours before the day ends. However I prefer a Choco lynch rather than a ghost one, since he's contributed less and flew under the radar more. So I'm putting a placeholder vote on Chocolate, and hope Jekyll can come before the deadline and make a better assessment before the day ends. ##Vote: Chocolate. P.S: People, please just ignore FourFace from now on. /Hyde | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
First of all, I don't like this swing vote towards Steve. PEOPLE DON'T SWITCH VOTES AT THE LAST MINUTE. Alderan, if you are town please don't. If there's a last minute switch to steve and he flips town, then this whole day would be worthless and it would be your fault, so just no. I don't think lynching igabod is a good answer either. Think about it, if igabod is "modkilled", then he'll be replaced. Hopefully his replacement will be active, and we can figure out if he's scum or not. If there won't be a replacement, then igabod will be modkilled and flip anyways. In 1, it's better to wait and analyse his replacement, in 2 he'll die anyway. I don't really want a choco lynch right now to be honest either. Maybe it's gut feeling like I do in the obs qt all the time, but the tone of his post don't seem at all like the tone from his last game where he was scum. He strikes me as kind of spontaneous at the moment, so right now I'm not liking his lynch either. Considering that, I don't think a NL is that bad. Specially since scum can decide who to switch for at the last minute (either an igabod lynch or a Choco lynch), which would be justified by us townies if we say "We need a lynch at all costs". So no, let's NL, let's wait for replacements/modkills, and analyse this better next day/night. Also, consider if both Choco/igabod are town, we lynch choco and igabod gets modkilled, it means we lose 2 townies right now, and may reach Day 2 MYLO if a vig shoots wrong. Tomorrow/tonight, I say we pressure the replacements (or Steve/igabod if they are not replaced/modkilled), and the other hydra guy who didn't seem to post much at the time. I don't like sloosh's attitude either, I think he would push his reads further if he was town, or at least contribute more. @sloosh, what are your other thoughts on the game? Do you have any other reads other than on Chocolate? Your vote on him was a "preliminary" one, so what will be your final vote? As for ghost. I'm not convinced yet, but he could be scum (considering how my reads have been these past few games >_>). Either way he's not getting lynched right now, barring another last-minute switch, which I'm against. I'd prefer to pressure other people though. Anyways, I'm gonna eat, be here when the deadline hits and then go to sleep. Shit I really don't have much time this game  Why do I have to start a game the day I start uni? Also, dreamflower allowed me to delete/edit that last post I made in the gonzaw account, just a heads up /Hyde | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
##Unvote: Chocolate I'll vote for someone not likely to be lynched, that way there can't be a fast vote-swing towards him: ##Vote:DoYouHas | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
So chocolate doesn't get lynched today...? If I keep my vote on Chocolate, then it's likely some people will change his vote towards him and get him lynched, which I specifically said I didn't want by this point. | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
As for the replacements, please read the thread carefully and give your thoughts as soon as possible. /Hyde | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
Anyways, I'll post my thoughts after night ends preferably /Hyde | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
I am here now though, I skimmed through the read quickly and noticed we unfortunately went to a no-lynch on D1. I hope we'll get ourselves coordinated and lynch scum on D2. I am now reading through the thread in-detail and will try to respond any questions that come up right after. This may take me two-three hours though, since when I play forum mafia, I take it seriously. /Jekyll | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
I hope this does not confuse anyone, as I might be late to reply to many things, or to some that have already been adressed. Firstly, my opinion about a fake deadline, I don't really like it. Obviously everyone should have a fair idea of who they want to vote way before the lynch, but sometimes late changes may be needed. The time of the vote is not the most important thing, the reason of the vote is. But clearly we shouldn't all go around voting at the last minute. Secondly, my opinion on lynching lurkers. If there is active scum that we have viable cases on, obviously we should push them first. But a good point to note out is that if the lurkers are active enough to not get mod-killed and stay until endgame, it is much harder to make reads on them, which benefits the scum. About making a case, I like to play with open cards myself, If anyone wants to know what I think, just ask. Unless it's a very special situation, I am always ready to give my opinion and reads. When you make cases or analysis, please concentrate on finding scum, not confirming town, unless you find it necessary for a specific reason. If any townie feels like they found something pointing out to a player being scum, please raise the issue. If it's not totally wishy-washy, it forces the accused person to defend himself, creating more discussion and more for us as town to go on from. Also, if anyone at any point of the game accuses you of something, always defend yourself. If you do not, it can easily be considered as scum play, trying to move the attention to someone else. Definitely pressure persons you are suspicious about, but do not tunnel. (Mindlessly blaming them for everything, just being 100% sure you are right.) Every single one of us can be wrong, and no possibility should left out. About metagaming: Please don't even try. We all have played 3 or less games, and that is not sufficient data to try to be clever and metagame someone. This is just my opinion though. As for my and Gonzaw's hydra: Due to both of us being mostly busy, we are going to have to play to some extent independently. We do though to our best extent communicate with each other, so that we wouldn't confuse you by having two outright different opinions. (Although this can happen, since humans do not always agree with each other.) When you vote for someone, please provide a reason for it. I hate it when people vote for anyone just "for the heck of it". Consider this as my "introduction post". Next up will be an analysis post, where I will provide my reads on EVERYONE. This is so that every single one of you is up to my current opinions and are able to address them, as I have no reason to hide anything. PS: I tried to bold the most important parts to make it easier for everyone. PS2: A link to my only previous game, Newbie Mini Mafia II This is in case someone for any possible for reason wants to read my earlier play. I recommend that you do not try to metagame me based on this though, or you are just shooting yourself and possibly the town in the leg. /Jekyll | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
(Yeah, I did spend actually around 10 minutes if not more per page, I am serious when it comes to forum mafia.) @ Alderan, I will be addressing your question in my analysis of everyone that will be posted as I finish reading everyone's filters individually. I have got my hands on Hyde, and after talking about our opinions, we agreed to disagree in some things. So we will be posting our individual analysis, and even though it may confuse some of you that we do not agree in our reads, I think that 2 analysis on people is always more to go on from than 1. | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
(PRE-EDIT: Apparently Jekyll decided to finally show up We disagreed on some reads initially, and we didn't have much time to discuss it, so we are posting our reads separately (I made this post before he showed up), and hopefully try to come to an unanimous decision tomorrow if we are still alive) (PRE-EDIT2: Jekyll told me to apologize that he didn't post yet, he was getting too tired (3 AM his time aprox), and he said he didn't want to post a half-hearted case and get nothing useful done. So he'll be most likely posting his reads after he wakes up and finishes them, if we are still alive after the night.) Alderan: He had me fooled first for making sense regarding FF, however considering how he made sense last game, but was still scum, I'm not taking that into account. Here's a thing that makes me very suspicious of him: On February 29 2012 03:54 Alderan wrote: The K2hd Case Why I found you suspicious the originally: - You had, prior to the very end of the day yesterday, exactly 1 productive post. - Your first point in said post was to say you didn't find FF very scummy. - Your second point was to find Ghost suspicious for the same thing that seemed to clear him for everyone else. - You soft agree with me about Chocolate. - You vote for a no lynch. You had no strong convictions, made no original cases, you simply agreed with other people sentiments, and then chose to vote for a no-lynch, the ultimate middle of the road move. Important note: Notice the fact that you voted for igadob is no where to be found in this reasoning. It's because that move is not inherently scummy, I found you and 3 others that were voting for igadob suspicious, which in turn lead me to believe that Chocolate could be scum. I had enough doubt however to choose to vote for either lynching the scummiest lurker in my mind, or no lynching. Why I find you more suspicious: - Opening sentence of your second meaningful post is "Now for those who are starting to suspect me." What a bizzarre way to start a post, I've never heard a towny be worried about being "suspected" - The rest of his post has absolutely no substance. - Spends 3 paragraphs saying he's going to be inactive a lot. - Says he couldn't make an informed enough decision to switch votes to get a lynch because of his inactivity. - Touts being the first to "bring igadob up. He was a lurker, you didn't do anything special, you just voted for a lurker. Who tries to make their actions look more meaningful than they are? Scum. - Agrees with Sloosh and Zelblade that I look suspicious. Makes 1 extra point about the case that was inherently flawed. You state that I was giving Janaan a pass. I wasn't. In case you did not notice all of those people were lurking really hard, except for Janaan, who was posting enough, just not making a stand on anyone, and that's what I was asking him to do. See what you guys think. On February 29 2012 04:42 Alderan wrote: Sloosh- The thing I find most concerning about Sloosh is his change of pace from last game. I know he's said that hes slowing down his posting to try and clean up his play but he has been extremely lurkish. He pushes Ghost pretty hard, but ironically enough it was his case against Ghost that made Ghost less suspicious for me. He ends up taking an extremely soft stance on the matter. He then makes a case against someone (me) who had a very similar train of though in terms of vote targets to himself. I'll have to wait to hear his response to my rebuttal to discern more probably but I do have my suspicions. Gumshoe- I think we need a case from Gumshoe soon, he's been active but not assertive, he needs to post an original case rather thanto continue to just evaluate others' cases. Janaan- Extremely suspicious in my eyes, and after looking through his filter I think this case could be more suspicious than my k2hd case. Here is a quote from "Chocolate, of all the people with cases against them seems the most scummy to me, and I can't quite put my finger on why exactly." This quote sums up how he is playing to me. He's not making any original cases, he's not taking any hard stances. He defends with WIFOM constantly, and he has done nothing but agree with the most popular decision of the thread. Here is his filter. I don't have time to make a complete case on him at the moment, about to have to run to class, but just read through this filter and you'll see how useless he has been to the town up to this point. Will return with more after my classes, maybe even in class, if I'm feeling friskey. Here he made a "case" against k2, but then completely disregards it in favour of Janaan. Why would he do that? Why make a case and then completely disregard it? Do you know what I think you are doing? You are creating potential "suspects" to get lynched on D2-D3-onwards. You make all these players suspicious, so there's a bigger pool of suspects on later days to choose the lynch from. This ensures that town will be more confused as to who to lynch, and scum will get it easier to just choose a townie from those and push for his lynch (or have other townies do it for them). So you make a "case" against k2, and then forget about it; but I'm sure you (or other scum) will eventually go back to it at some time to push k2's lynch if he's town. Another option is him being scum and you're bussing him, which doesn't bring that much attention to him since you dropped off the case immediately. I also don't agree with this "If you don't make a case you are suspicious" mentality. Don't you know how easy it is to make purposefully bad PBPA cases as scum? It's also easy to paint other players suspicious for not doing so, when you are doing it so yourself (for instance, I spent all time making bad cases on townies when I was scum on Newbie II). Which is something else I believe you are doing. He also tried to get a last-minute switch towards Steveling at the end of D1. He fully knows how those works, since he experienced one the last game he was in. He knows that 90% of the time they result in a misslynch and gives town no info whatsoever (check Newbie II for another example). On February 29 2012 03:20 Alderan wrote: Response to Sloosh's case: As for the whole Chocolate/Ghost issue, I think it might be helpful for you to see the timeline of my thought process- - Searching through filters looking for suspicious people. - Read Chocolate's filter and think "Hey! All this stuff is absolutely bizarre, no ones made any concise cases yet, let's give it a shot". - While making post, realize that the voting three times in the first 12 hours of the game is really weird for anyone, scum included, so after I posted the Chocolate post I went back to see why he would have done it. - Make the "Ghost hypothetical" post prior to checking Ghost's filter. - Went back to check his filter, realized he was actually not suspicious to me at this point because he is playing far too aggressively, which is why I told Sloosh I had a "hunch" about Ghost. - Without posting that sentiment, I waited for Ghost to respond (just to get some more info), which he did more than adequately, and I dropped my suspicion of him. Sorry, but this doesn't make any sense. While making a case against choco, you realise that his voting pattern was "really weird for anyone, scum included", and you continued to make the case and post it? What? As for other players: I still get the hunch Choco is town, I doubt he would change his scum play so drastically since the last game he played. phagga and NightFury strike me as town as well, they made sense initially, and have an enthusiastic tone on their post, or at least trying to contribute. DoYouHas is making sense as well and seems to try to contribute and help town atmosphere, although I don't agree with him being so intent to lynch igabod last day. zelblade is town, mostly because I think FF was town. His first post rings well too. Considering this, it reduces the amount of players for the remaining 3 scum, which is good. The replacements for igabod/steve could be a possibility. ghost could very well be too, but I am not very confident in him being scum at the moment. sloosh has upped his game since the start of the game, specially with his case against Alderan, so I'm not confident in him being scum now either. As for gumshoe, k2, Janaan, they are null to me at the moment, but I'd be willing to bet that at least one of them is scum. /Hyde | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
This doesn't make much sense, seems like that Valonis kill from NMM1. Well, I posted my reads and it's getting late here, so I'm going to sleep. /Hyde | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
1)If Alderan is scum, then him killing a player he was going to push later doesn't make any sense, since he's hindering scums ability to push for a misslynch on said player, and he's hindering his own survival too. 2)If Alderan is town and scum are trying to frame him, it doesn't make any sense either. If you are trying to frame someone as scum, you kill the players pressuring him, you don't kill the players he's pressuring. Also, it wouldn't be a very good job at framing him, if any townie can figure out (1) and know it doesn't make sense for Alderan to kill Janaan from a scum POV. So this makes me think, that either this was very bad scum play, or Janaan was killed independantly of any effects caused on Alderan and other players' thoughts on him. I'd just want to address this now so people (i.e gumshoe) don't dwell on this WIFOM for too much longer. /Hyde | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
There are some PBPAs and bad cases thrown around, like this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=314813¤tpage=33#644 I don't want a Choco nor a Night lynch. Here is Choco's filter from Newbie Mafia III where he was scum: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=305805&user=135961¤tpage=2 Here is his filter from this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=314813&user=135961 He's posted as much this D1-N1-D2 as he did that whole game. There he lurked, never posted any reads, and when he posted some of his posts had completely different subjects that did nothing but make the intention of his post harder to read. This game he's posting WAY more, and I get the feeling every post of his has an intention. He's playing somewhat more aggresively, I get how some of his posts may be fluff, but at least there is some thought put into them, not like the ones from Newbie III. As for NightFury, the same applies from Chocolate. He's way too enthusiastic (sp?), just look at his post and the tone of them; it's not the tone of a scum trying to hide. Actually, I'd put both of them, along with phagga with the most "townie" ones out there, at least judging by the way they are playing, are responding, and how they do so. I also don't like how everybody is ignoring Alderan right now, and apart from an interaction between him and sloosh, he hasn't done anything today, hopefully waiting for the cases against him to be buried. I specially think this since he never responded to my case. Sorry, I may not be as active as I want, but I won't let you guys ignore me like I'm some useless townie. I don't know where the hell Jekyll is either, was hoping to discuss with him before casting our vote, but I'll vote now and we can decide to change it later: ##Vote: Alderan | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
/Hyde | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
On March 02 2012 03:11 Alderan wrote: Hyde's case COMPLETELY revolved around me "dropping cases" which was clearly not the situation. I made two cases during the night period. That's it. Please look objectively? "we can't really bank on Alderan and k2hd posting satisfactorily".... There is only one way to take this sentence, regardless of the fluff you just posted above. I understand we need more contributions, and we need to come to a come to consensus which is why I'm dropping this fight with you. Your vote is on gumshoe, would you consider switching it to k2hd? No, you made 4 players suspicious throughout the night: -sloosh -k2hd -Janaan -gumshoe You made a case out of nowhere, and dropped it instantly, even on D2. + Show Spoiler + On March 02 2012 02:50 Alderan wrote: Ok guys, sorry about the absence, was going to take the afternoon off after my last post but then I got caught up with some GF shit all night last night. Let's see what we got here: I think I can address all of Sloosh and Jekyll's worries about me in one sentence: A person can have more than one case active at a time, especially when the town is as inactive as this one. Look, I posted a couple cases of people I find scummy at the end of the night/beginning of the day period to see what everyone thinks about the cases. Sloosh I used to think you were just playing poorly (while ridiculing my play nonetheless) but now I realize you are just misleading the town to cast suspicion on me. I did not drop anything, I'm suspicious of multiple people, ya know, because there are more than one scum. Then you had this post: What in the hell does that even mean? Again you continue to try to discredit my name, my cases, and my contributions for seemingly no reason. You already admit that you don't find me as suspicious as you originally did with your first case, so why the blatant cut down. Here you go after sloosh, but one post later: + Show Spoiler + On March 02 2012 03:01 Alderan wrote: Now for who we should vote for.... K2hd has still not provided anything of value, under the guise of being a "noob town". Quite frankly I'm sick of responses like this. WE'RE ALL NOOBS.... hence the title of this game. Read filters and make cases. I say from this point forward we stop accepting responses like this. His vote is currently on Ghost_403. His reasons: - He thinks Chocolate is town. - Ghost voted for Chocolate. - Ghost made a slightly suspicious post (a point that I actually brought up initially) - Therefore Ghost is scum. What? It doesn't work like that. ##vote K2hd You go back to voting k2? This only causes confusion in the thread, you accuse someone while voting for someone else, create 2 different discussions (at least if k2 had addressed your case more thoroughly), where one doesn't even matter since you are not voting said player. You made a very bad excuse for your case against choco, which I pointed out and you didn't even address. On March 02 2012 06:05 Alderan wrote: If our mafia last game was looking at the situation last night, we would have split the votes equally, definitely no more than 2 on the same person so as to cut losses if some shit hit the fan. I would have set it up where it was 2 maybe on Chocolate (assuming he's town), one on igadob (assuming he's town) and one on a random other. I think the wrench in things when comparing it to last game is the orientation of igadob. Because he was a lurker, and didn't even vote, it's highly possible he was just a scum inactive player, and because we have heard next to nothing from his replacement there's still no way to tell. If this was the case they would make sure to save igadob's life if at all possible because a replacement was almost guaranteed. In this situation I would put one on igadob and the rest on his closest competitor, who at the time was Chocolate. As scum, I would not have wanted any of our cases to have been one of the one's leading the lynch on the first day (I know mine against Dimmuklok was, but I've already said I did not want him to get lynched at all). So that being said everyone would post soft arguments and coast into the first night. The Day 2 was about starting casting suspicion, but again, you don't want to come out real strong against someone and them flip green. So you come out hard against people, but not necessarily put a vote on, or actually try to get them lynched. I did this with Sloosh last game, I believe he might be doing this to me now. There were two lurkers on our team through day 2, and I would expect that to be fairly similar here. Then we had semi active noob scum, Steveling, who reminds me of K2hd from this game. It's all WIFOM'y, nothing solid, but I certainly keep how our scum played in the back of my mind, as this game does seem to be playing out similarly. This is a completely irrelevant post. Why would scum imitate the scum play from SNM7? Why try to analyse people assuming that scum would? You conclude it's "WIFOMy" and "nothing solid"...then why post it? You say "this game does seem to be playing out similarly", if you were townie, how could you say that if you don't know who scum is? If you wouldn't know who scum is, how would you know scum is playing like that game? I don't see how this game is playing similar to that one, and I've never seen 2 mafia games that were alike, so I don't know why you even decided to dwell with that in this post. Too bad your lynch won't happen. People, I'd really like you guys to stop ignoring Alderan, and either keep pressuring him, or attack the cases against him head on if you think he's town. I don't want a 2nd NL in a row at all. If we were to misslynch on D3, it would drive us to D4 LYLO instead of MYLO, which I would guess is arguably worse, we need to have a lynch today. I don't really think gumshoe is scum, but considering his change of playstyle, and considering I think most of the players voting him are town, that's a possibility. DYH, why are you so afraid to vote for gumshoe? Chocolate, do you want a NL? Why are you voting nttea who doesn't have any other votes on him/her? The way I see it, Alderan isn't voting gumshoe, so I'm down with his lynch for now. If gumshoe were to be town, then at least in my case it reduces the amount of possible suspects, which makes it easier to me to find the remaining scum. #Vote: gumshoe | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
/Hyde | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
On March 02 2012 11:27 Chocolate wrote: voting gum. have to go to bed. night all I said I was going to vote for him. Don't make baseless accusations please. Then what were you guys waiting for? A last minute switch towards nttea? On March 02 2012 11:46 DoYouHas wrote: Alderan posted his speculation because I asked him to, Hyde. That entire section equally applies to me. I think that there are similarities to how our day1 played out and how day1 played out in SNMM7. I think that that it is a pretty decent place to start thinking about how the scum are playing this game. Is it speculation? of course. But it was helpful when I was deciding how I was going to filter the game looking for scum. I wanted to know if Alderan agreed with me (he did), and I wanted to get his perspective. You are not wrong posting that posting this kind of speculation is largely unhelpful to the game as a whole. However, it does worry me that you completely ignored my involvement in something you consider so questionable. And I'm going to preempt those of you who are going to come down on me for soft/chainsaw defending Chocolate and Alderan. That is not my intent even if that is the result. It's not a big distinction, but a true one. I saw that going through Alderan's filter, I didn't notice he was replying to you with that speculation. Okay, I ask you the same question as well then DYH; if you are a townie, and don't know who scum is, how are you so sure this game is similar to SNMM7 and scum are acting by it? Now that I've read it, you said it was because of a threat of a NL, and there being few cases or something on D1. How does this alone convince you of something (IMO absurd) like scum copying the same play of a previous game? Also, why do you want to raise discussion about analysis of earlier games if you agree yourself it is largely unhelpful as a whole? /Hyde | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
I hope I can finally get to discuss things with Jekyll thoroughly later though. /Hyde | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
Scum: DoYouHas k2hd slOosh Alderan /Jekyll | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
This is going to make things harder, we certainly cannot afford any mislynches that can be avoided considering scum night-kills will most likely always go through now. Gg nttea, we will avenge you! | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
Here is the case on k2hd. I am going to catch up on the newest pages, as there probably has been some posts while I was finishing this case. I will post the rest as soon as possible. Hyde also asked me to take over for now since he is too busy, so I will be the one mainly posting from now on. Case in spoilers because it's huge. + Show Spoiler + k2hd On February 27 2012 21:08 k2hd wrote: Right then. First off, FourFace. His posts sound like a town player who is very enthusiastic about playing things his way, and having fun with his writing style, hence the kooky posting, so I agree that we should take the heat off of him just for now... In my opinion, he is unnecessarily drawing the attention away from FourFace to start with. On February 27 2012 21:08 k2hd wrote: As for chocolate and ghost, I must say I have my suspicions regarding them as well. I'm not going to quote too much because I think others have done enough of that already while I've been away. There is no such thing has others have done enough, even if everyone had gone through a persons filter ten times, someone else could still find something that others have not noticed. On February 27 2012 21:08 k2hd wrote: Ghost seems VERY insistent on lynching. He's even against using FOS and wants to straight out lynch anyone he considers suspicious, as some have already pointed out. Then, when FourFace places a vote on jekyl just to "pressure" them, ghost posts this: It doesn't really say much about WHY FourFace is doing it wrong, and conveniently places another vote on jekyl. You are right that his "pressure vote", is totally useless and says nothing. I do not understand why do you considering being insistent on lynching suspicious? The only way the scum dies in this game is by lynching. (Well, with the obvious exception of a vig possibility, but even they have only one shot in newbie games usually.) On February 27 2012 21:08 k2hd wrote: Then, FourFace presents himself as a better, and more possible target for a mislynch. Ghost accuses FourFace of scummy/crazy play, and it seems to me like he is out to get the easy mislynch again. Does he actually just think that FourFace is playing a very weird and seemingly nonsensical style? Maybe, but he has yet to unvote FourFace in the voting thread. FourFace's play up to that point is by no means pointing him out as town in my opinion, and considering it was still the early stage of the day, what does a vote hurt? It may force out more reactions, and it certainly is no harm unless it is thrown around as something of no value, by constantly changing it. Which ghost did not do in my opinion, although moving it a few times. On February 27 2012 21:08 k2hd wrote: I'm also very curious though to know why everyone is ignoring igabod. Up until now, his contributions have been these 2 posts: All he has done is agree with what has been said so far (without even bothering to put it into his own words, or back his agreement up with his own logic), and since then we have heard nothing from him. It may not always be worth it to constantly poke at a lurker. Most people should acknowledge someone is MIA, and everyone constantly asking the MIA person something isn't necessarily going to change that. Rather use the effort to get out more content from the current active people, and if the lurker has no legit reason as to why he is not contributing (but does enough to avoid modkill), then it's quite clear that he should be pushed more. On February 27 2012 21:08 k2hd wrote: Now I should say that this will likely be my last post from now until the voting deadline (the real one) because I have to head off to bed soon for class tomorrow, and will be in uni when the deadline is up. I have pretty much no breaks tomorrow either in between classes. Because of this, I will vote for a no lynch for today only. Since I will be away for so long, I'd rather not vote for a lynch on someone who posts a proper defense when they wake up, or if a better target presents themself and I'm not available to change my vote. Just to confirm, can I ACTUALLY vote for a no lynch, or does that only occur when there is no majority? I will actually probably come online tomorrow during a lecture just to check this post (and change my vote if I have to), wouldn't want to be modkilled for a stupid mistake like this Just fyi, If I cannot vote for a no lynch, I will be voting for igabod no matter what, because I won't have time to go through posts properly in a lecture to consider what everyone has to say. It seems like a safe enough option for now because I am sure I will not get a majority on him anyway at this stage, so this vote shouldn't have an effect on tomorrow's lynch. I'll be able to post more as I have Wednesday and Thursday off (GMT +11). ##vote: no lynch Why on earth would you go for a no-lynch on D1 if you could.... It seems like you are scared to take any responsibility in whomever ended up being lynched, as your only choice of vote is a lurker. On February 28 2012 21:58 k2hd wrote: Alderan, I want to ask you now, do you think I'm still suspicious for "stacking" my vote on igabod to potentially save chocolate? I see that you yourself changed your vote away from chocolate, so I'd like to hear what your case is against me now. I already stated why I voted igabod. I had suspicions regarding chocolate and ghost like everyone else (was leaning more towards ghost in fact), but did not want to vote for either one in case they posted some convincing arguments while I was gone, and still have my vote on one of them because I wasn't around to change it. I was the first to bring igabod up, and voted for him because I didn't want to affect the outcome of today's lynch as I figured that sure, he was lurking, but was that by itself enough to convince others to vote for him? Turns out he did almost get lynched, but hey, I missed out on a LOT while I was gone. Not that it matters now anyway. Hi to the new entrants btw  The two bolded parts do not make any sense to me. Why did you not vote for someone you were initially suspicious of? Just because someone may come back with good arguments while you are away, does not mean that they couldn't be scum. What are you were doing by keeping your vote for a lurker, you were one of the persons to cause a no-lynch. If you had voted for ghost or chocolate, and they had came out with a convincing defense, I am sure the town would not have lynched them regardless of your placeholder vote. But if they seemed scummy, the town would have had a much better chance at lynching them for not missing a vote, if you get what I mean. I don't see how your voting was pro-town. Also, as a townie, why would you ever NOT want to affect the outcome of the lynch? Your primary mission as a townie is to affect the outcome of the lynch, to sway it towards a mafia member and get them killed. If every townie was thinking like you, that would be equal to letting the mafia decide every lynch, which would obviously result in the town losing. In my opinion, you are just trying to give yourself an out/excuse for bandwagoning without needing proper reasoning for it. Not everyone is a "town leader", but no townie should sit beside and follow the supposed "town leaders". On February 28 2012 21:58 k2hd wrote: Sloosh, I find your case against alderaan very interesting. And just to add to what zelblade has said, here's this post by alderan: + Show Spoiler + On February 28 2012 01:28 Alderan wrote: Obviously we need to hear more from everyone, but here is who I'm specifically looking forward to: - Igabod - Chocolate - Janaan (In that, I would like to hear who you want to vote for) - Ghost_403 - Steveling I still like Chocolate as the lynch candidate for today, but I'm going to hold out as I wait for a response. Also I have more reads on Ghost, but again, I'd rather wait for him to respond so as not to jump the gun with divulging information. A note on Steveling. Last game he played a very "I'm a noob town don't lynch me" game as stated in one of his first posts in the scum qt. He obviously can't do this again if he's scum, because he knows I'm town, and I'll call it out. After playing a game with him it seems like he is a person who would use a shtick as scum. Steveling I'm telling you now, if a lurker scum is your thing, I'll find you. He wanted to hear about what those 4 had to say, but janaan is exempt from explaining himself, he just has to tell him who he's voting for. He has now stated that janaan makes him suspicious (in alderan's post regarding those among igabod's voters who he found suspicious), so we will have to see how convincing a case he posts for janaan, or if he is going to post a weak case and let someone else tear it down because it is not concrete enough, thus absolving janaan of any guilt. I say all this because I have also started to get suspicious of janaan. However, I don't think I have enough yet to be any more than moderately suspicious of either at this point (would alderan really shove himself into the spotlight this much if he were mafia? It must be awfully hard to keep from any slips this way... But I'm new to mafia, so who knows). I would like to hear from both of them first before going further with this. I'd also just like to sleep on this too, I've spent hours looking at everyone's filters, having over 10 tabs open and trying to find what I want in each of those tabs. Also, I obviously want to see what the night brings along. The above just looks like a bunch of nonsense speculating to me. I do not see how useful your theorycrafting about how Alderan may or may not post a weak or a strong case and let someone tear it down. Neither do I find useful how you are implying that you are suspicious of Janaan, but say you don't have anything to back it up with. If you are suspicious of someone, why would you say it aloud that you have nothing to pressure them with? That just lets the mafia calm down, knowing they haven't made a mistake yet and not needing to worry. I also find it slightly funny how you talk about Alderan shoving himself into the spotlight, and why would he do that if he was mafia? Only to find him quiet down later.... On February 28 2012 23:14 k2hd wrote: This is not enough for me to lynch you personally. It's just something that phagga brought up that I didn't catch, and I wanted to hear what you had to say. I really don't have much of a scum read on you at all. BassInSpace ... I just hate when people do this. Why would you need to assure someone that you don't have a scum read on them? Unless you are trying to buddy up with someone. Mafia isn't a game where you should be afraid of stepping on someone's toes. Mafia is a game where you SHOULD step on someone's toes, and see how they react after. On February 29 2012 11:33 k2hd wrote: As for voting for igabod, I wasn't saying I did anything special. I was just reminding people that I was the first to vote him, and not simply jumping on a bandwagon to save chocolate; who is still potential scum. I was not trying to make my actions look any more meaningful than that. I already stated my reasons for voting igabod, so I will not repeat them here. If you are not trying to make your actions look any more meaningful, why would you need to bring up the fact that you were the first to vote for someone? It does not matter whether you are the first, the second, the third, or the last, or anything inbetween that to point out/vote/suspect someone. What matters is the content you provide to prove that person is scum. On February 29 2012 11:33 k2hd wrote: Now for this: Why on earth does that make you suspect me more? I don't see how that shows that I am "worried" about being suspected. There were a few who were starting to get suspicious of me, and I was addressing them, simple as that. How is this bizarre? This is your weakest point on me. I agree, it's certainly no strong point on anyone. But I do not either see why you would need to specifically point something to the people who suspect you. Everyone else wants to know your reactions just as much, and if you play this game by "only reacting to those who ask something of me", then you clearly have your hands dirty on something. On February 29 2012 12:43 k2hd wrote: As for why janaan, there is the possibility that he was killed because alderan started pressuring him, and if he was scum, the kill would make alderan look more innocent. Why kill janaan if testsubject and alderan had started making cases on him, wouldn't it be better for scum to leave him alive to absorb some pressure? Alternatively it could just be a scum ploy to heap more pressure on an already suspicious alderan. BassInSpace We do not need to hear epic theorycrafting about the night-kill. Most likely only the scum knows why they killed someone. On February 29 2012 13:23 k2hd wrote: I don't think it's wise to claim blue at this stage of the game zelblade. Not sure if this is just a mistake or done on purpose to try and fish for a reaction / make the others convinced that zelblade is a blue. On February 29 2012 16:13 k2hd wrote: Sloosh, I wanted to ask you about this part of your case against alderan + Show Spoiler + Summary: Alderan has shown a great bias against Chocolate. He tries to focus people on him (such as Janaan when he posted about ghost) but is perfectly willing to drop it when DYH comes in to call out what is going on. Even so he picks it back up and tries to get people to look at it, and then tries to get something on Steveling started on the sole basis that he is involved with Chocolate. Conclusion: It could be a case of serious tunneling (which I doubt as he seemingly listened to DYH), but I find it more likely that he is casting confusion amongst town by setting up multiple suspects without good reason or case. It does seem, as you say, that alderan is focusing hard on chocolate, but is he really trying to set up multiple targets? From what I can tell, at the point you made that post, he was only setting up chocolate and steveling to be scrutinised, and dropped his case against ghost. I think it's becoming more and more likely that chocolate is town, so if alderan were scum, why waste his vote on steveling, who he knew was not going to attract enough votes for a lynch? And nttea, you haven't contributed to the thread yet and you are already advocating a default alderan lynch if there is no new info? It is only the start of day 2, there is plenty of time for more info to come out. Why are you soft-defending Alderan? How would you know what he is doing unless you've planned it out together? Then you also claim chocolate is more and more likely town, without providing any reasoning, just clearly letting everyone know. And then more theorycrafting about if Alderan would be scum, why would he do "such a bad decision." Well, no-lynching is not pro-town play in my opinion. A no-lynch is a free kill for scum, and it's always better than a scum lynch for them. And right away you are trying to convince nttea on someone else. Why so focused on defending Alderan? On March 01 2012 19:39 k2hd wrote: I believe that chocolate is town. He's had a LOT of pressure put on him due to his sub-par posting on day 1, and had to defend himself left, right and centre for the rest of day 1. He's spent most of his time on defensive posts, and perhaps hasn't been able to focus on gathering much of his own evidence on other players. He is very aggressive in trying to force lurkers to post more by voting, but as was mentioned by DYH, this could just have been a poorly thought out way of fostering discussion. I understand that it may have been an easy way to avoid generating original content/cases of his own, but again, this is probably just the play style of a townie who is unsure of what to do, or who would rather not stick his head out too much. I did not check up on everyone's previous games, but from what I gather from what others have said, chocolate was mafia in his last game, had to tone down his posting because it was too aggressive, and hasn't played town before (unless he's had another game that I don't know about). Why do you find the need to make a case on someone being town? As far as I know, chocolate wasn't under that heavy pressure that he would've needed help of someone else to convince others of his townyness. I don't like at all how you are defending certain people. It's like you are trying to belittle his play on purpose, and try to set him up as a newbie town. Why would you want to do that? On March 01 2012 19:39 k2hd wrote: There is also this post by chocolate: Why would he argue so confidently against a vote swing AWAY from him? Chocolate is also one of the first to start getting suspicious of alderan. After day 1, some of the heat was finally lifted off of him and focused on alderan by others. Following this, we have sloosh post a large case against alderan, followed by JekylAndHyde's case, and alderan is under more and more pressure. Instead of continuing his case against alderan, chocolate decides to launch a case against night fury of all people, who no one had posted any suspicions against yet. If he were mafia, why would he not join others in pressuring alderan (or the case that is piling up against gumshoe), and go for a target who would be harder to mislynch? I sincerely believe chocolate is town, and that some of those pressuring him hard are looking scummy to me. Those who voted chocolate on day 1: phagga, sloosh, NightFury, ghost As mentioned a dozen times before, why would you try to need to make something look better than it actually is? The obvious reason for the second bolded: He obviously doesn't want Alderan to get lynched, so he is trying to propose an alternate (town) target instead. At this point reading your filter is making Chocolate & Alderan look worse and worse to me, which are both on my possible scumlist. (Scum: Alderan/kh2d/DYH/slOosh, Suspicious of: Testsubject/Chocolate) <-- This is for those that are not up-to-date with my reads. On March 01 2012 19:39 k2hd wrote: I currently do not have as much info as I'd like on NightFury to say much about him. Sloosh's actions seem pro-town to me so far, and though he has not posted as much as others, his posts have generally been full of content. And we needed to know this because? On March 01 2012 19:39 k2hd wrote: Now for the remaining two: Phagga has been trying very hard for a chocolate lynch the whole game. He takes a moment to call gumshoe out on why he didn't change his vote from ghost, and why he felt the need to "take responsibility" for voting chocolate if he flipped green, and then goes straight back to attacking chocolate. He is either getting tunnel vision with chocolate, or trying to get the mislynch on him. Have a look at this post. He accuses chocolate of relying on the arguments of others, and voting lurkers (a policy which he did state at the start), but ignores the fact that it is chocolate who first brought up a case against alderan (albeit a rather lackluster one) and states emphatically that he will vote chocolate again on day 2, presumably for not coming up with original cases/evidence, when there was still 48 irl hours for chocolate to contribute on day 2 (day 1 had not even ended yet). This early vote behaviour was the same thing we called nttea out for when he wanted a default alderan lynch. It still doesn't matter whether you are the first or last to make a case, being the first one to make a case, especially if it's poor does not certainly make you look any more town. The whole paragraph above is written in a mindset "I want him to look suspicious for tunneling my scumbuddy". Or at least that's how I read it. Hard pressure and tunneling are different. On March 01 2012 19:39 k2hd wrote: I also do not trust this post made by ghost: + Show Spoiler + On February 28 2012 11:03 ghost_403 wrote: You see, this is how I see it. We could vote to lynch Igabod. That's not even really a bad idea. He's been lurking hardcore. Kinda scummy if you ask me. And I don't like scummy. However, his flip doesn't tell us anything. Maybe, we'll get lucky and lynch a scum. Odds are about, what, 28%? You can do worse than that. Other option: You lynch either me or chocolate. I think it's pretty well established, one of the two of us is scum. If whoever gets lynched flips red, awesome! Lynched a scum! If not, guess who the first person on the chopping block is tomorrow. The guy who wasn't lynched. Either way, going into day 3, the town is down one scum. Trying to gain the trust of the town by encouraging a chocolate or ghost lynch on day 1. If chocolate flipped green, suspicion may still have fallen off of ghost because mafia would presumably not make a post like this. I realise that this point is a bit WIFOM (I think I'm using the term correctly?). Basically, it seems to me that phagga and ghost are actively trying to discredit chocolate after his already shaky start, and possibly also get the mislynch on him. Why is encouraging a lynch on someone trying to gain the trust of town? Any townie should try to push for the lynch they are suspicious of, I think you are purposely misreading this aloud as "trying to gain trust". In my opinion, the whole meaning of this post of k2hd's is to protect his scumbuddies and try to cause suspicion against two town players. (Defending Alderan + Choco, Accusing ghost + phagga). Of course I can be wrong, but this is how it looks like to me. On March 01 2012 20:18 k2hd wrote: Sloosh, I was never more than mildly suspicious of alderan. I did make some points against him, but note that I then said this: + Show Spoiler + However, I don't think I have enough yet to be any more than moderately suspicious of either at this point (would alderan really shove himself into the spotlight this much if he were mafia? It must be awfully hard to keep from any slips this way... But I'm new to mafia, so who knows). So I was still very unsure about alderan. As for me suddenly dropping my case against alderan, it's just that ghost and phagga have stood out to me more now, after going through the most recent posts. I soft defended alderan because if there is going to be a case against him, I wanted those issues which I brought up to be dealt with first, so that I could be more open to an alderan case. My speculation on the mafia's intent on the hit and its impact on alderan is, after reading what others think, WIFOM and I will not harp on it any longer. This looks like trying to cover up for bad scum play early on. At the start you had clearly pointed out your suspicions on Alderan, which if you both are mafia members, would give in-between interaction for, which is something the scum usually forget since they are careful of not blaming each other too much. Now that someone picks up on your quick moving to others, you start convincing everyone how you never were more than only a bit suspicious of him. Bolded makes really no sense to me. Issues, really? If you can't look at every case from a neutral point of view, I don't understand how you can be a townie. As pointed out before, I just think this is even more evidence that Alderan & k2hd are scumbuddies, I see no reason why you should need to defend a fellow townie that is clearly able to defend himself from such claims. On March 01 2012 22:16 k2hd wrote: + Show Spoiler + I would be stupid to push his lynch so hard if I was scum and knew he was town. When he would get lynched and flipped green, everyone would be on my heels. You do not want that as scum, specially not so early in the game. Perhaps it is enough that chocolate is discredited, and you know you don't have the numbers to mislynch him without mafia stacking on him. At this stage, there is a low chance of chocolate actually being lynched and thus, flipping green, since there are multiple cases out on alderan, gumshoe and myself. It is also a convenient way of wasting a vote and not committing to anyone else, but as you say, I will wait to see what you have to say about others when you're done with their filters. I will try my best to see what you have to say in the morning before class. This is why I am placing a preliminary vote on ghost first. How would you KNOW that chocolate flips green unless you have a DT check on him? Scumslip? On March 02 2012 09:18 k2hd wrote: As for this: + Show Spoiler + K2hd has still not provided anything of value, under the guise of being a "noob town". Quite frankly I'm sick of responses like this. WE'RE ALL NOOBS.... hence the title of this game. Read filters and make cases. I say from this point forward we stop accepting responses like this. His vote is currently on Ghost_403. His reasons: - He thinks Chocolate is town. - Ghost voted for Chocolate. - Ghost made a slightly suspicious post (a point that I actually brought up initially) - Therefore Ghost is scum. What? It doesn't work like that. ##vote K2hd I'd rather you not devalue my post like this. I voted for ghost because of his day 1 posting, AND his recent interactions with phagga concerning ghost. You may argue that what I said about day 1 was already covered, but not day 2 posts. I have read filters, and my vote stays on ghost. I'm willing to take the chance that gumshoe flips red and I look even more suspicious than I already do, but I do not think he is scum. A response to a pre-set-up accusation between two scum? It looks to me like you are trying to cover up that you buddied up to Alderan by defending him earlier by now getting him to accuse you. On March 02 2012 22:14 k2hd wrote: First, I fully agree with lynching nttea next. He did not explain the ninja vote then, and has still not done so now. Note that the first few posts he made were around this time of day/night. Easy jump on someone that eventually was nightkilled as medic? On March 02 2012 22:14 k2hd wrote: Now for your questions Sloosh. I am still suspicious of alderan, but am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt regarding his most recent spate of inactivity (he says has a party). I also have some questions for him regarding why he was pushing my lynch so much harder than gumshoe's. Alderan, after gumshoe's lynch, you made these 2 posts: post 1 post 2 If gumshoe appeared SO scummy to you, why did you let your vote stay on me? I think we are all in agreement that a no lynch at this stage of the game is bad, and leaving your vote on me risked exactly that. I know you suspect me, but the 2 linked posts show that you supposedly felt that gumshoe was "so scummy". That, combined with the fact that the majority of the players were convinced he was scum would make gumshoe the better option to place your own vote on. More fake-interaction between the two scummies. If anything, this should finally convince everyone we aren't both scum, right? On March 02 2012 22:14 k2hd wrote: Speaking of DoYouHas, I had him pegged as town earlier, and still do. He makes constructive posts to foster discussion among town, and when he pushes somebody, he has plenty of reasoning to back it up. He believes that chocolate is town, as I do, and was against a gumshoe lynch. It's also difficult to really link him in with any potential mafia buddies. What I mean by this is that he has closely scrutinised posts by multiple players, and does not seem to be more or less friendly to any player in the game/agreeing with anyone prematurely. Did you point this out on purpose to make him look better incase someone caught up to you and Alderan? You just keep talking about your townie reads all game long, that is still not helpful. On March 02 2012 22:14 k2hd wrote: Now for my thoughts on gumshoe's lynch. The original reason I didn't want him lynched was because the reason he wanted to leave was boredom. This seemed to clinch his lynch in many people's eyes. If he was mafia though, why would he say this? Mafia have been doing well in this game, creating an uncertain town atmosphere with cases flying everywhere. If he was mafia, he would have been winning, and town are playing into their hands (hopefully we can change this from now on obviously). Why would he ever say that he was bored if he was mafia, and want to leave, unless he was a legitimately bored townie? This is all just speculative of course, but I suppose it was just a feeling. The fact that gumshoe ended up flipping green doesn't make this look any better to me, I still don't like how you are theorycrafting with such "outside" reasoning. You even say yourself it's just speculative stuff, but you still keep bringing it up. Why? On March 03 2012 11:36 k2hd wrote: I have just skimmed through everything and will go back for a more detailed look, but I'd just like to ask everyone in general how DoYouHas is going to be handled. It seems cases on him are springing up, but how are these cases going to be debated and addressed if he's not even going to be here to defend himself? Are you genuinely confused or just worried that your scumbuddy would not be able to defend himself? I think everyone should be smart enough to realize that if someone has posted a reason for their absence and people are jumping on it, then some people on that bandwagon are up to no good. The cases should be evaluated, if they are convincing and good enough to make everyone agree that he is scum, lynch. If not, then wait until more information is gained and lynch someone that is more likely scum. On March 04 2012 13:35 k2hd wrote: In response to zelblade: Despite the pressure on him, I am still not totally convinced that alderan is mafia. He stuck his neck out on day 1 with his case against chocolate (this is I believe the first case made in the whole game), and I don't see why mafia would do this. He drove a lot of discussion on day 1, and I don't see why mafia would want to do this, rather than letting discussion stagnate or focus on the wrong things (we spent a LOT of time debating the merits of a soft deadline). He was bringing the spotlight onto himself, increasing the chance that his posting would be scrutinised more closely (which happened). You again bring up how someone was FIRST to something. It. Doesn't. F*cking. Matter! >_> Why would mafia only want to hide if they are able to take control of the town by being active posters, gaining everyone's trust, and leading them from mislynch to another? I also like the two "and I don't see why mafia would want to do this", after each other. On March 04 2012 13:35 k2hd wrote: Btw, chocolate, can you not post like that (your phagga case). It was extremely hard to read. Still believe chocolate is town because I doubt mafia team would let him make cases like that... Why would they not? Not the first time the "newbie town" - card would be pulled, it's surprisingly common. You are pushing for this townyness way too hard in my opinion. | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
He's already at 6 votes unless I miscalculated, and that's enough unless someone changes their vote. (We are 11 total at the moment if I'm right?) Alderan, do you think you can finish your case on Sloosh in 30 minutes or less? I'd like to see it as I am currently working on a case against him as well. /Jekyll | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
/Jekyll | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
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GG Alderan. | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
I still do think slOosh is scum, and I am getting fairly suspicious of chocolate as well. More into those if I survive the night, whatever happens should be able to help me sort out my reads a bit. Phagga & Ghost should be looked more into in my opinion. | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
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JekyllAndHyde
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On March 06 2012 12:21 DoYouHas wrote: We are now in lylo. Detective, it is claim time regardless of the returns on your investigations. Why do you want the DT to claim right away? Assuming we even have one. If he has a scum check and is able to push it for the lynch without claiming, he would have a chance at getting more scum checks on the following nights. We can't really take any DT claim for granted either, as blindly believing in a fake-claim could end up costing the game for us. /Jekyll | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
I will also not cast my vote yet until I've thought things through. I would also like to point out that Test hasn't appareantly posted today at all, and unless he suddenly shows up, it should be a modkill. I will vote for either DYH, slOosh, or Choco. (They are the only lynches that have any chance of happening). I will also answer questions if asked. I do not like how k2hd seems to buddy a lot in this game, and if he is townie, he should have no reason to not defend himself against my case (instead of having to ask), even if the Alderan flip might make some of the points slightly invalid, it can still be considered buddying up to town. NightFury seems very uncertain of what is going on now. Whether that is legit townie confusion or just enabling an excuse for being wishy-washy, I do not know. I don't like how he is trying to convince the DT that all his checks are true, in my opinion a Godfather and/or a Miller(s) are very possible. I do also not like how DYH was trying to get the DT to claim at the start of the day, although it is very possible he just didn't think things through a bit further. He has also been tunneling VERY hardcore today imo, a bit too much even. Sure, we want to lynch scum today, but tunneling without having your eyes open for anyone but that one person you think is scum isn't going to save the game. It will make you lose credibility and we have less to go by on the following days if we survive. The fact that you were drawing the line in the sand as you saw it didn't really look too good to me either. Chocolate.. I really don't understand why he is still alive in this game. I just can't understand his play being pro-town in any way. No offense, but your cases are horrible, and your defenses are even worse, you're not really getting us forward in finding scum in my opinion, and I do not think you are that much of a legit town newbie. TestSubject should be ignored for today's discussion, since he is about to get modkilled at this rate. However, if he comes up with a ninja vote and we survive to the next day, I think it's quite clear where we should be pointing fingers at first. The play of ghost & phagga looks the most pro-town to me at the moment... .. however I do not like how phagga is decided on his vote and is not going to change it, I don't see why a townie should threat others with a no-lynch in a LYLO unless they lynch the person he wants. I also noticed that in some of his earlier responses and accusations, he wasn't looking exactly objectively always. What I find interesting is that slOosh is sort of backing off from the fight between him and DYH. Maybe he realized that clogging the thread up with half of it being pretty much OMGUS isn't going to help? Feel free to ask me questions, will try to provide further insight soon. | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
![[image loading]](http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m05yr7bQt41qcb5fko1_400.jpg) | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
Thanks for a great game, and sorry for lurrrrking. :D | ||
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JekyllAndHyde
42 Posts
Don't post at all since the beginning of N2, and have nobody notice or care about it CHECK Achievement: With Jekyll combined, have a filter smaller than the one from the guy we killed on N1 CHECK Achievement: Not be FoSed a single time in the whole game, despite the previous achievements CHECK Okay fellow scum, I'm willing to collect those winnings :p /Hyde | ||
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