EPTNewbie Mini Mafia IV - Page 3
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On March 05 2012 10:17 Chocolate wrote: Should I vote to lynch you or... I haven't been posting that much because the mafia is basically running the town now. I was thinking of getting myself modkilled to show you all my alignment so you would finally lynch my suspects, but I think it would be cheating because it's against my win condition, although it could help. Tomorrow I may do that if we really need to start lynching mafia. On March 05 2012 10:17 Chocolate wrote: Tomorrow I may do that if we really need to start lynching mafia. On March 05 2012 10:17 Chocolate wrote: if we really need to start lynching mafia. | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On March 02 2012 11:07 Chocolate wrote: Yeah, it sucks. If gum flips green I'm looking at the old crew: phagga, nf, ghost, test maybe? Maybe even sloosh? On March 04 2012 03:53 Chocolate wrote: EBWOP those bottom three people (phagga, nightfury, zellblade) are the ones i'm most suspicious of right now. I'll finish my scum team with tessubject803. I think I have at least two right, but I'm on the fence about ghost, the hydras (need to reread their posts because I have them confused a little), and sloosh. This is all I found about testsubject in your posts. Why do you want to lynch him? | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
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phagga
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On March 05 2012 21:44 Chocolate wrote: Testsubjects list. Ganging up on me earlier. Being behind all the town lynches. You voted on gumshoe and Alderan too. In fact, there was no need for you to vote either of them, as they would have been lynched with one vote less as well (and you were the last one to vote for Alderan 55 minutes before the deadline with an absolut joke of a reason). But I guess you did not want to risk that a townie would not get lynched, because you are scum | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
I'm suspicious of DYH, k2hd, jekyllandhide, nightfury and testsubject. I suppose I got all mafia covered with that list. I will have to read through some of their filters again to be more specific. And yes, I really want to lynch chocolate now. | ||
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phagga
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phagga
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As a reminder, the DT can not find the godfather. The godfather returns as town to the DT. Therefore, The DT should only claim under the following circumstance: - DT has a confirmed scum, and town is not lynching that person - If the DT is in danger of getting lynched - DT has more than 2 confirmed and still alive townies, and he sees that they are attacking / lynching each other. (And with "confirmed town" I mean he returned town. Remember the second sentence of this post, the godfather returns as Town as well to the DT). In every other situation, I would prefer if the DT does not claim and instead tries to get another check in next night. He should try to breadcrumb any "confirmed" town info into this thread, though, so that if he should get killed next night, we can go trough his filter of this day and find that info. To all Townies: Be active today. Contribute. We need to find our lynch target, and we need every townie for it. Don't wait until 4 hours bevore the deadline to cast your vote, get in the thread now and participate! | ||
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phagga
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phagga
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On March 06 2012 12:48 DoYouHas wrote: We need all the available information in the open right now. This game hinges on us making the right decision today. A detective claim, assuming his checks weren't all on dead people, should help us make that decision. Yes, a dt could push a scum check without revealing himself. But if he did claim then we could start this day with a confirmed scum (assuming that the dt claim looks legit). Which lets us work out the team. It is the best use of our time. If he has multiple town reads, it clarifies quite a bit. So yes, the dt should claim if he has ANY relevant checks. It is not that easy. The mafia team is obviously not completely incompetent, and I doubt that it will be that easy to find all teammates. Hell, it is theoretically possible that you, chocolate, ghost, sloosh and me are all town and the mafia is leaning back and enjoying the carnage (although I doubt that). I don't really want the DT to come out guns blazing if we are already on the right track. I know we are in a "do or die" situation, but we still need to think ahead. Therefore: If we are completely on the wrong track, and the DT sees it, step in and help. If we are on the right track, stand back, do another check tonight, and help us tomorrow finding the rest of the scum. | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
The other 5 people were: - Sloosh - zellblade - ghost_403 - k2hd - phagga DoYouHas was excused, that's ok. That leaves the following 3 people (ignoring Alderan has he got lynched): - Chocolate - Testsubject - JekyllAndHide Also note that none of these persons had posted any info after the start of D3 on who they were going to vote for before they disappeared. So these three and Nightfury actually managed to miss the whole day's discussion about the vote and come in less than 3 hours before the deadline. Nightfury, Testsubject, DYH and Chocolate then vote for Alderan (although Choc and DYH think he's town and NF only seems to vote to prevent a nolynch) and THEN accuse everybody who voted for Alderan early to be scum. The problem I have with this discussion is that the very people who are accusing sloosh of starting the bandwagon on Alderan could have prevented that bandwagon if they would have been more active from the beginning. Instead, they decided to be completely absent of the thread and then shout at the others for messing up. Seriously, is this normal town behaviour? And I just want to make this clear again: Nightfury, Testsubject, Chocolate and JekyllAndHide have been absent of any lynch discussion on D3 until 3 hours before deadline. I am not saying they are all scum, but I'm sure there are at least 2 scum players in that lurker group. On March 05 2012 09:14 NightFury wrote: This isn't very good at all. Not much has happened at all and it's getting extremely close to the deadline. ##Vote: Alderan Yeah well, perhaps you should have tried to be more active then? | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On March 06 2012 22:20 k2hd wrote: To phagga and ghost: It's been twice now that you've chosen a townie lynch over a chocolate lynch, who you have both been critical of all game. You both seemed to let go of your chocolate case and jump on gumshoe and alderan a little too easily.1 Again, I am against a chocolate lynch. I have said why more than once already. You were also the first 2 (aside from sloosh himself) to place your votes on alderan for day 3 lynch. This put the remaining players who had not cast a vote in a difficult position.2 There was already a lot of suspicion cast on alderan by the mafia team prior to this. Had they still voted for someone else and brought the possibility of a no lynch into reality,3 I suspect they would have been berated ANYWAY for flip flopping (all 4 of those players had been suspicious of alderan at some stage in the game). Either way, sloosh comes out looking pro town. JekylAndHyde, I await your decision on your case regarding me, if you still want to go ahead with it. My mafia list for now: Sloosh ghost phagga I want a sloosh lynch. ##Vote: sl0osh 1 I thought I was pushing chocolate hard on D2? On March 02 2012 09:18 k2hd wrote: Phagga + Show Spoiler + On March 02 2012 01:44 phagga wrote: Generally: I don't care if this is anyones first game on TL Mafia. This is a newbie game, noone has a lot of experience with TL Mafia. This game is here to learn, so please stop making excuses like that. I have already skipped several paragraphs who start with that, and I will continue to skip them in the future. DoYouHas: No, I don't agree. You accused him of not generating content. He agrees, but then only writes an excuse, and you are already giving him a free pass. Now there is no more pressure on him to generate real content, which is what would have given us more information on him. You left him of the hook way to early. Instead, I would have liked to see you call him out on his confession of not generating content, and pressure him more at least until he starts generating content. I noticed several times that people don't want to pressure someone anymore after the target went from scummy to towny. Why not? If you already started, pressure some more. Townies don't need to be afraid to get pressured. After all, they have no reason to lie, and if they write what they think and observe, than they have nothing to fear. And it will generate more information which will enable more people to judge better if someone is town or not. But if you let Nightfury of the hook like that, and nightfury gets lynched anyway and flips red, I will immediatly get suspicious about your reluctance to pressure him after making a case on him. - Chocolate - Gumshoe - Alderan k2hd: + Show Spoiler + On March 01 2012 22:16 k2hd wrote: Perhaps it is enough that chocolate is discredited, and you know you don't have the numbers to mislynch him without mafia stacking on him. At this stage, there is a low chance of chocolate actually being lynched and thus, flipping green, since there are multiple cases out on alderan, gumshoe and myself. It is also a convenient way of wasting a vote and not committing to anyone else, but as you say, I will wait to see what you have to say about others when you're done with their filters. I will try my best to see what you have to say in the morning before class. This is why I am placing a preliminary vote on ghost first. This is just not true. On the first day, my vote was on Chocolate the whole day. After this vote + Show Spoiler + On February 28 2012 07:36 NightFury wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: Chocolate + Show Spoiler + On February 28 2012 08:36 phagga wrote: So, folks, I will be offline for the night in about 20 minutes. So far my vote stays on Chocolate. I have read a few interesting things about others (specially steveling), but so far nothing could convince me to switch my vote to another person. I still think Chocolate is our best lynch. On February 28 2012 10:00 phagga wrote: I'm off to bed now. My vote stays on chocolate. That was 2 hours before the deadline. There was still the possibility that he would get lynched. 40 minutes before the deadline JekyllAndHyde unvoted Chocolate. Chocolate: + Show Spoiler + On March 01 2012 20:58 phagga wrote: To k2hd: + Show Spoiler + On March 01 2012 19:39 k2hd wrote: I believe that chocolate is town. He's had a LOT of pressure put on him due to his sub-par posting on day 1, and had to defend himself left, right and centre for the rest of day 1. He's spent most of his time on defensive posts, and perhaps hasn't been able to focus on gathering much of his own evidence on other players. He is very aggressive in trying to force lurkers to post more by voting, but as was mentioned by DYH, this could just have been a poorly thought out way of fostering discussion. I understand that it may have been an easy way to avoid generating original content/cases of his own, but again, this is probably just the play style of a townie who is unsure of what to do, or who would rather not stick his head out too much. I did not check up on everyone's previous games, but from what I gather from what others have said, chocolate was mafia in his last game, had to tone down his posting because it was too aggressive, and hasn't played town before (unless he's had another game that I don't know about). There is also this post by chocolate: Why would he argue so confidently against a vote swing AWAY from him?1 Chocolate is also one of the first to start getting suspicious of alderan. After day 1, some of the heat was finally lifted off of him and focused on alderan by others. Following this, we have sloosh post a large case against alderan, followed by JekylAndHyde's case, and alderan is under more and more pressure. Instead of continuing his case against alderan, chocolate decides to launch a case against night fury of all people, who no one had posted any suspicions against yet. If he were mafia, why would he not join others in pressuring alderan (or the case that is piling up against gumshoe), and go for a target who would be harder to mislynch? I sincerely believe chocolate is town, and that some of those pressuring him hard are looking scummy to me. Those who voted chocolate on day 1: phagga, sloosh, NightFury, ghost I currently do not have as much info as I'd like on NightFury to say much about him. Sloosh's actions seem pro-town to me so far, and though he has not posted as much as others, his posts have generally been full of content. Now for the remaining two: Phagga has been trying very hard for a chocolate lynch the whole game.2 He takes a moment to call gumshoe out on why he didn't change his vote from ghost, and why he felt the need to "take responsibility" for voting chocolate if he flipped green, and then goes straight back to attacking chocolate. He is either getting tunnel vision with chocolate3, or trying to get the mislynch on him. Have a look at this post. He accuses chocolate of relying on the arguments of others, and voting lurkers (a policy which he did state at the start), but ignores the fact that it is chocolate who first brought up a case against alderan (albeit a rather lackluster one) and states emphatically that he will vote chocolate again on day 2, presumably for not coming up with original cases/evidence, when there was still 48 irl hours for chocolate to contribute on day 2 (day 1 had not even ended yet). This early vote behaviour was the same thing we called nttea out for when he wanted a default alderan lynch. Then we have ghost. His last few posts have all been aimed at chocolate. here they are Ghost and phagga engage in banter that seems like bullying chocolate to me in the first post, and the second post is unnecessary, because although chocolate did not do anything like make a new case, it was still a valid point. Nttea should not be posting like that, and if he is as clueless as he says he is, chocolate was only helping him. The way he analyses the chocolate quotes in the third post is very condescending in tone. He could have done so without putting chocolate down, as others in the thread have done. 1bI also do not trust this post made by ghost: Trying to gain the trust of the town by encouraging a chocolate or ghost lynch on day 1. If chocolate flipped green, suspicion may still have fallen off of ghost because mafia would presumably not make a post like this. I realise that this point is a bit WIFOM (I think I'm using the term correctly?). Basically, it seems to me that phagga and ghost are actively trying to discredit chocolate after his already shaky start, and possibly also get the mislynch on him. 1 You are aware that later in your post at 1b you quote ghost_403 who wrote against a vote switch away from him and chocolate, and say that that post is a reason you don't trust ghost_403? This is contradictory. 2 The question you should ask yourself here is: Is this something a townie would do? And if so, is it also something scum would do? I doubt scum would want to stay in the spotlight like that. Also, If you are town, and you feel strongly about someone being scum, what are you gonna do? - Try to push a lynch on that person even if people will not listen to you - let the person of the hook because noone listens to you, and pick another target I would be stupid to push his lynch so hard if I was scum and knew he was town. When he would get lynched and flipped green, everyone would be on my heels. You do not want that as scum, specially not so early in the game. Nothing Chocolate said so far convinced me that he is not scum. That's why I still want him lynched. 3 I am aware that I am prone to tunneling Chocolate, and I am currently reading through several filters (again) to give an update on who else I think is fishy. I disagree. Scum does not want to be in the spotlight. People in the spotlight get analyzed more, and scum has to play a role / lie to look townie, so the chance that people will reveal their true role is higher. You will not often find scum that is going to play aggresively, and most of the time they won't get far with it because they have to hide too much. I think there's some confusion here, I'm talking about the vote count and low chance of mislynching chocolate on day 2, and how hard you were STILL pushing chocolate up until now, with the change to gumshoe. Notice I typed in the present tense in that post. 2 When I left for bed on D3, there were 2 votes on Alderan and 2 on DYH. Really a tough situation for the rest of town /sarcasm 3 Again, this could have been avoided if people would have been more active. Alderan was not my only suspect, there were other people I would have voted as well. But somehow a lot of people decided to lurk until it was too late. | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On March 06 2012 23:30 k2hd wrote: Phagga I do not like that post at all. First, JekylAndHyde posted a case against me within your 26 hour timeline here: post 1 That post was up on March 5th, 10:30 On March 06 2012 23:05 phagga wrote: From March 4th, 7:01 KST to March 5th, 9:14 KST only 6 people have been active in the thread. On March 06 2012 23:30 k2hd wrote: He is not one of those who blindly bandwagoned against alderan, he had posted against him here: post 2 and here: post 3 So don't say that JeklyAndHyde conveniently disappeared only to appear to sheep alderan. Where did I say that he was blindly bandwagoning? Where did I say he sheeped? I just said that all these people avoided any lynch discussion on D3 until 3 hours before the deadline. On March 06 2012 23:30 k2hd wrote: Now for this part of your post: + Show Spoiler + Also note that none of these persons had posted any info after the start of D3 on who they were going to vote for before they disappeared. So these three and Nightfury actually managed to miss the whole day's discussion about the vote and come in less than 3 hours before the deadline. Nightfury, Testsubject, DYH and Chocolate then vote for Alderan (although Choc and DYH think he's town and NF only seems to vote to prevent a nolynch) and THEN accuse everybody who voted for Alderan early to be scum. I have already talked about JeklyAndHyde. When did nightfury and testsubject accuse anyone who voted for alderan early? Testsubject has not even posted since alderan's lynch. The same goes for nightfury. This leaves chocolate, who you have had a bias against for the longest time now. You are right, I messed that up because my memory failed me. Sorry for wrongly accusing Nightfury and testsubject on the point of "they accused shloosh for setting up the bandwagon". On March 06 2012 23:30 k2hd wrote:Your post is a desperate attempt to push attention onto inactive posters and away from you, sloosh and ghost. My post is a slightly desperate attempt to show that there are several people who missed the day 3 lynch discussion. Draw you're own conclusions. | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On March 07 2012 09:50 DoYouHas wrote: Wow, you're really grasping at straws now considering the post you quoted happened before zelblade died. There is no 'convenient ignoring'. In fact, I am really amused that you are the one to bring up how zelblade's death hurts my arguments against you. This morning in the shower I was musing to myself that the first person who brought up how zelblade's death discredits me was probably mafia (sort of like in the godfather where the rat is the one who proposes the meeting). It is just perfect that you are the one to do it, slOosh. It fits perfectly with your MO of trying to discredit me. See, it is true that zelblade was suspicious of me. It is also true that zelblade was on my list of possible scum. With 1 hit the mafia have thrown doubt both on my scumlist and on my aggression towards slOosh. zelblade is the perfect hit for framing me as scum. It discredits my case on slOosh, discredits my scumlist, and removes a townie voice that was opposed to me. Why would I do that to myself if I am indeed scum? So that I can make this exact defense? That is a pretty low reward for drawing suspicion back onto myself. Of course, you all could decide that this is speculation into why zelblade was hit and therefore WIFOM and moot. Actually, you said yourself on D2 that this kind of speculation is WIFOM. On February 29 2012 15:41 DoYouHas wrote: 'Thinking about it from scum's perspective' is just going to be WIFOM and not helpful. I'm not ignoring or ignorant of the WIFOM possibilities of Janaan's death, I'm putting it to the side. Until more information is available later in the game I'm not willing to use the mafia killing Janaan either against or for Alderan. Tomorrow when I delve into filters and such I will try to do so independent of that kind of thinking. I fell into it last game with MidnightGladius. It wasn't helpful then, it won't be helpful now. About this: On March 07 2012 09:50 DoYouHas wrote: As for Alderan, he did post the first PBPA on Chocolate, but if memory serves, he was not the one that pushed Chocolate's lynch in the end. He was, however, the one who speculated that mafia would push the case of a townie over one of their own day1. And would ya look at that, 3/4 of the people I suspect to be mafia are on that list. I really should be thanking you slOosh, in your desire to discredit me, you narrowed my list to 4. Two people I have on my scum list had zelblade in their scum list. Also, the other two people on my scum list do not have the first two people on their scum list. And all four of them have not been eating bread this morning, while I as a townie have been eating bread this morning. So they MUST be scum. When I look at that post again, you said nothing, really. Just some WIFOM and making up numbers that don't mean anything. On March 07 2012 02:34 DoYouHas wrote: Seems the battle lines have been drawn. Me, k2hd, NightFury, Chocolate vs slOosh, Ghost, Phagga, Testsubject. Jekyll, I don't know what you will end up deciding. But if I read the sides on this as clearly as I think I do, your decision is going to be the difference between an all townie lynching of scum and a bus. ##Vote: slOosh On March 07 2012 10:55 NightFury wrote: This post has been the basis of my entire evening so far. In all honesty, I think it may come down to two sides going against each other. The thread is in total chaos and everyone can point fingers at just about everyone. I don't think there is a single person remaining in this thread who hasn't done something scummy in someone else's eyes. There is no objective way to tell. I still think that there has to be scum directing the thread. Given how dire the situation is, taking a stance like this provides the direction this game needs. On March 07 2012 23:48 k2hd wrote: Sloosh, maybe our definition of "active" differs, but zelblade's activity seemed pretty consistent to me throughout the length of his stay. I am looking at my reads, and am confident that you are scum. I am not merely sheeping DoYouHas and Chocolate. I believe that you are now not only actively discrediting DoYouHas, you are also trying to make me doubt myself as much as possible. It is approaching the end game, and I am now confident in my reads. My vote stays on you. As for nightfury, test and JekylAndHyde, hope to hear from you soon and tell us where you stand. So this is it, isn't it? The endgame is here, and it seems the lines are drawn, and I am irrefutably pushed into a group, no matter if I like it or not. I wonder if both k2hd and nightfury are scum as well, or if the mafia was able to draw a townie in their group and put a spy in the other. Or perhaps I am the mislead one, and DYH and Chocolate are in indeed town. But I doubt it. I will know it in 11 hours. ##Vote Chocolate | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
This is D3 all over again. The inactivity of the people frustrates me. I feel pressured to either vote sloosh or DYH, and I'm no fan of that. *sigh* | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
My vote stays on Chocolate. | ||
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phagga
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(At least I got my 2 town reads right, zelblade and ghost). @DoYouHas: Your post where you made the groups were the nail in the coffin. Up to then, I was undecided if I would really go and vote chocolate or if sloosh might be an option. But that post made it pretty clear for me that you were scum. @Chocolate: Similar to DYH, after D2 I actually had no clear intention to lynch you anymore, I got the feeling that I might have been wrong about you. But the way you came back on D3 on Alderan and the post were you said something among the lines of "if we really have to start kill mafia tomorrow" brought you back to my attention. @k2hd: If you would have claimed DT, I would have believed you immediatly. On the last day I saw you rather on the townie side, and I realized that what I thought was scum behaviour, was probably rather blue behaviour. Generally: After the werewolves game this game was dissappointing in terms of activity. I was really frustrated D3 and D4 about the low activity, and yesterday I kinda started hoping that it would be over soon. I guess I won't try another newbie game, but hop straight into something else. | ||
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phagga
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On March 08 2012 13:28 dreamflower wrote: After TestSubject giving the Mafia a small scare tonight until he showed up and voted, Qatol and I are definitely thinking about adding a rule that everyone needs to post at least once every 24 hours. I do understand that real life can get hectic and difficult without any warning, but it does make it tough on the rest of the game if someone just disappears for an entire day without a single post. I understand where you are coming from, and I even thought about proposing such a rule myself for future game at one point, but I think it is not needed. I think the possibility for mafia to lurk away unnoticed is good, and such a rule might interfere with that. I would not implement it. | ||
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