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On February 29 2012 05:35 TestSubject893 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ok guys, I've caught up on the thread now. Like I said before, this is my first time playing online, so you'll have to bear with me if I'm a little slow with any acronyms (although after reading the thread, I think I've gotten most of them), or otherwise am unfamiliar with some nuance of online play. Anyway, on to my thoughts.. Thoughts on Day 1 VotingI was torn between thinking that all of the push to vote igabod was useless and counter-productive, and thinking that it was a good alternative in to a no lynch in a spot where we didn't have a lot of information. When I had only read up to the end of Day 1, I was definitely suspicious of Chocolate, but knew his case was far from 100%. As such, I want to look back and say a no lynch was clearly the right move, but if I had had to cast a vote, it probably would have been for Chocolate, since he seemed to be the most likely to be scum at that point in time. Current Reads+ Show Spoiler +Some of these are dependent or conditional on my thoughts of other people, so I'll try my best to order them in the way that's easiest to consume in order. - He is definitely the player I'm most suspicious of right now. In addition to the other points mentioned in the recent cases against him, his attempts to get players to move from igabod to steveling make me think he has some information about igabod that everyone else doesn't. nttea (igabod) - I really wish I had more information here. Right now its basically a null read, but if Alderan flips red, my suspicion of him goes up drastically. Janaan - Someone suspicious, but he seems to be getting a decent amount of scrutiny right now, so I'm confident we'll have the information we need before the next lynch comes around. I think he also looks scummier if Alderan turns out to be mafia. Chocolate - As has been noted, he's been pretty aggressive and someone willing to target anyone. This makes me want to keep an eye on him. gumshoe - For as active as he has been he hasn't really said that much meaningful. I think he probably deserves more scrutiny than he has gotten, although I'm far from ready to lynch him. sloosh - His early inactivity had me suspicious, but I'm back to a null read on him after his posts lately. zelblade (FourFace) - I feel like he may have been put in a hard spot here. FF's posts seemed pro-town to me, but I don't know how much to trust that info given the crazy/troll nature. I'm definitely leaning townie on him, but new info could change my opinion quickly. I wish I had more information on: JekyllAndHyde, phagga, k2hdSome of these are time zone/RL issues, but the jury is still out on these 3 for me. I could definitely still go either way. Basically neutral reads: DoYouHas, NightFury, ghost_403Early suspicions of ghost seemed to get cleared up pretty well. I'm not ready to call pro-town on anyone this early, but these three are on the right track.
I'd like to hear a bit more from TestSubject if possible. I just have a couple questions for him about his reads post.
First, you say that before the vote, you would have voted for Chocolate if you were given the chance. Now, you just say you're keeping your eye on him. So you went from "most likely to be scum" to maybe scum, maybe not scum. What changed?
Second, you find me scummy. Why not pressure? As of yet, there aren't even any formal accusations, just a couple people posting reads on me. What do you find scummy about me?
I'm also a bit confused about why Alderan flipping red makes me more scummy. Considering that he's the one who first said that he found me scummy, I would have thought the opposite. What's your logic here?
Now that JekyllAndHyde and phagga have posted a bit more, are you getting anything from them, or do you still need more information?
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On February 29 2012 10:10 Janaan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 29 2012 05:35 TestSubject893 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Ok guys, I've caught up on the thread now. Like I said before, this is my first time playing online, so you'll have to bear with me if I'm a little slow with any acronyms (although after reading the thread, I think I've gotten most of them), or otherwise am unfamiliar with some nuance of online play. Anyway, on to my thoughts.. Thoughts on Day 1 VotingI was torn between thinking that all of the push to vote igabod was useless and counter-productive, and thinking that it was a good alternative in to a no lynch in a spot where we didn't have a lot of information. When I had only read up to the end of Day 1, I was definitely suspicious of Chocolate, but knew his case was far from 100%. As such, I want to look back and say a no lynch was clearly the right move, but if I had had to cast a vote, it probably would have been for Chocolate, since he seemed to be the most likely to be scum at that point in time. Current Reads+ Show Spoiler +Some of these are dependent or conditional on my thoughts of other people, so I'll try my best to order them in the way that's easiest to consume in order. - He is definitely the player I'm most suspicious of right now. In addition to the other points mentioned in the recent cases against him, his attempts to get players to move from igabod to steveling make me think he has some information about igabod that everyone else doesn't. nttea (igabod) - I really wish I had more information here. Right now its basically a null read, but if Alderan flips red, my suspicion of him goes up drastically. Janaan - Someone suspicious, but he seems to be getting a decent amount of scrutiny right now, so I'm confident we'll have the information we need before the next lynch comes around. I think he also looks scummier if Alderan turns out to be mafia. Chocolate - As has been noted, he's been pretty aggressive and someone willing to target anyone. This makes me want to keep an eye on him. gumshoe - For as active as he has been he hasn't really said that much meaningful. I think he probably deserves more scrutiny than he has gotten, although I'm far from ready to lynch him. sloosh - His early inactivity had me suspicious, but I'm back to a null read on him after his posts lately. zelblade (FourFace) - I feel like he may have been put in a hard spot here. FF's posts seemed pro-town to me, but I don't know how much to trust that info given the crazy/troll nature. I'm definitely leaning townie on him, but new info could change my opinion quickly. I wish I had more information on: JekyllAndHyde, phagga, k2hdSome of these are time zone/RL issues, but the jury is still out on these 3 for me. I could definitely still go either way. Basically neutral reads: DoYouHas, NightFury, ghost_403Early suspicions of ghost seemed to get cleared up pretty well. I'm not ready to call pro-town on anyone this early, but these three are on the right track. I'd like to hear a bit more from TestSubject if possible. I just have a couple questions for him about his reads post. First, you say that before the vote, you would have voted for Chocolate if you were given the chance. Now, you just say you're keeping your eye on him. So you went from "most likely to be scum" to maybe scum, maybe not scum. What changed? 1Second, you find me scummy. Why not pressure? As of yet, there aren't even any formal accusations, just a couple people posting reads on me. What do you find scummy about me? 2I'm also a bit confused about why Alderan flipping red makes me more scummy. Considering that he's the one who first said that he found me scummy, I would have thought the opposite. What's your logic here? 3Now that JekyllAndHyde and phagga have posted a bit more, are you getting anything from them, or do you still need more information? 4
1. I think that Chocolate seemed the most scummy then, not that it was enough to thoroughly convince me he was 100% red. I'd still say he's scummy, but I think there are enough people after him right now that by the time the next vote rolls around we'll have a lot of conclusions drawn about him to work from.
2. It just seems like you are posting enough to get by without being considered as a lurker, and not really saying anything incredibly bold. Very under-the-radar kind of play. As far as not pressuring, I don't feel confident enough in any of these reads to act without interacting a little more with the involved parties first. Despite having read everything, I haven't actually interacted with anyone in a back-and-forth manner yet. We'll see how I feel about these reads after I'm actively involved in the discussions.
3. Well, Alderan seems to keep mentioning you as someone he is suspicious of without really going too hard. It just gave me a vibe of him trying to appear hard on you without actually being. Honestly after looking at it more closely, I'm not as confident about it anymore; its more of a hunch than anything.
4. I'm feeling like phagga is pretty pro-town, but the hydra thing for JekyllAndHyde and throwing me off I think. Still can't tell you how I feel about him/them.
Like I mention in 2, those were more of initial reads, I'm sure I'll change my mind on some things eventually. Let me know if you have any more questions.
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Fair enough. That's all the questions I have for you right now.
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On February 29 2012 09:07 NightFury wrote:
Okay. Caught up with the thread.
As for the no lynch - Can't say I'm 100% pleased with the decision. But I suppose people do have different priorities. All I know is that we have one extra day/night cycle. And since it has already come to pass, I see no reason to dwell on it.
Really happy we have substitutions for the two inactives and one with questionable sanity. Hope this leads to productive discussions.
As for the new cases proposed - I'm still trying to digest information on them. I don't have anything new or constructive to add at this moment in time.
I do have one question for Chocolate. This is mostly for my understanding than anything else. I do understand your strategy on day 1 was to get people talking and I definitely see the merit in that. So I won't be beating that dead horse anymore.
Why would you choose a dishonest strategy that basically involves empty threats to produce conversation over others (i.e. case building)?
I cannot wrap my head around why you opted to do this. I did state previously that it could have just been reckless play and that could still be a possibility - but I need to know more information before I can return to that stance. Just for clarity - I remain in the opinion that your play has been scummy and that you are still a valid lynch candidate.
I am heading out for dinner now. Will be back in a little while!
I think the answers produced while under pressure would just be better, and people might actually feel the need to respond more.
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Alderan
You argue that I did not bring up anything new in my post, when I clearly bring JekyllAndHyde up in this part of my post, and want to hear more from them because I suspect they are just stalling the town.
I'd also like to read more from jekylandhyde, who hasn't really taken a firm stance on anyone. So far he's put what he called a "placeholder vote" on Chocolate, which he changed to another placeholder vote on DoYouHas. He didn't REALLY want to vote chocolate, he didn't REALLY want to vote DoYouHas, and he didn't want to vote igabod because replacements were coming in, so that he could pressure them. This is while he has had access to the thread more than me. It seems like he may be stalling if you ask me.
Until they post their reads on everyone like they have said they are going to, I will remain suspicious of them.
As for voting for igabod, I wasn't saying I did anything special. I was just reminding people that I was the first to vote him, and not simply jumping on a bandwagon to save chocolate; who is still potential scum. I was not trying to make my actions look any more meaningful than that. I already stated my reasons for voting igabod, so I will not repeat them here. You accuse me of taking a middle of the road stance, after I have already explained why I voted igabod. Also, why are you singling me out for wanting to vote for a no lynch? I stated from the very beginning that I did not think no lynches were a bad thing if I did not think there was enough information (which, at the time I was available to post, was the case). JekyllAndHyde has essentially done the same thing by voting for DoYouHas.
You also wonder why I suspected ghost for reasons everyone had cleared him for. However, the heat was still on ghost to defend at the time I made that post. He hadn't addressed all the FOS claims against him yet, and as such, wasn't "cleared" yet. I did say I wouldn't be available for an extended amount of time after that post of mine.
Now for this:
Opening sentence of your second meaningful post is "Now for those who are starting to suspect me." What a bizzarre way to start a post, I've never heard a towny be worried about being "suspected"
Why on earth does that make you suspect me more? I don't see how that shows that I am "worried" about being suspected. There were a few who were starting to get suspicious of me, and I was addressing them, simple as that. How is this bizarre? This is your weakest point on me.
I will admit, however, that you reasoning for exempting janaan makes sense. Night is coming very soon, and I will wait until then to post the rest of my thoughts.
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EBWOP
Now for this:
Opening sentence of your second meaningful post is "Now for those who are starting to suspect me." What a bizzarre way to start a post, I've never heard a towny be worried about being "suspected"
Why on earth does that make you suspect me more? I don't see how that shows that I am "worried" about being suspected. There were a few who were starting to get suspicious of me, and I was addressing them, simple as that. How is this bizarre? This is your weakest point on me.
Forgot to add that this makes you seem like you are grabbing at straws, while trying to find another lynch target.
BassInSpace
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EBWOP
Sorry, formatting mistake.
Now for this: + Show Spoiler +Opening sentence of your second meaningful post is "Now for those who are starting to suspect me." What a bizzarre way to start a post, I've never heard a towny be worried about being "suspected" Why on earth does that make you suspect me more? I don't see how that shows that I am "worried" about being suspected. There were a few who were starting to get suspicious of me, and I was addressing them, simple as that. How is this bizarre? This is your weakest point on me.
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Yeah I'm not really waiting for "Day 2" to post my reads, I'll post them right now at the deadline in case we die tonight, and so it doesn't influence scum's kills.
(PRE-EDIT: Apparently Jekyll decided to finally show up 
We disagreed on some reads initially, and we didn't have much time to discuss it, so we are posting our reads separately (I made this post before he showed up), and hopefully try to come to an unanimous decision tomorrow if we are still alive)
(PRE-EDIT2: Jekyll told me to apologize that he didn't post yet, he was getting too tired (3 AM his time aprox), and he said he didn't want to post a half-hearted case and get nothing useful done. So he'll be most likely posting his reads after he wakes up and finishes them, if we are still alive after the night.)
Alderan:
He had me fooled first for making sense regarding FF, however considering how he made sense last game, but was still scum, I'm not taking that into account.
Here's a thing that makes me very suspicious of him:
On February 29 2012 03:54 Alderan wrote:
The K2hd Case
Why I found you suspicious the originally:
- You had, prior to the very end of the day yesterday, exactly 1 productive post.
- Your first point in said post was to say you didn't find FF very scummy.
- Your second point was to find Ghost suspicious for the same thing that seemed to clear him for everyone else.
- You soft agree with me about Chocolate.
- You vote for a no lynch.
You had no strong convictions, made no original cases, you simply agreed with other people sentiments, and then chose to vote for a no-lynch, the ultimate middle of the road move.
Important note: Notice the fact that you voted for igadob is no where to be found in this reasoning. It's because that move is not inherently scummy, I found you and 3 others that were voting for igadob suspicious, which in turn lead me to believe that Chocolate could be scum. I had enough doubt however to choose to vote for either lynching the scummiest lurker in my mind, or no lynching.
Why I find you more suspicious:
- Opening sentence of your second meaningful post is "Now for those who are starting to suspect me." What a bizzarre way to start a post, I've never heard a towny be worried about being "suspected"
- The rest of his post has absolutely no substance.
- Spends 3 paragraphs saying he's going to be inactive a lot.
- Says he couldn't make an informed enough decision to switch votes to get a lynch because of his inactivity.
- Touts being the first to "bring igadob up. He was a lurker, you didn't do anything special, you just voted for a lurker. Who tries to make their actions look more meaningful than they are? Scum.
- Agrees with Sloosh and Zelblade that I look suspicious. Makes 1 extra point about the case that was inherently flawed. You state that I was giving Janaan a pass. I wasn't. In case you did not notice all of those people were lurking really hard, except for Janaan, who was posting enough, just not making a stand on anyone, and that's what I was asking him to do.
See what you guys think.
On February 29 2012 04:42 Alderan wrote:Sloosh- The thing I find most concerning about Sloosh is his change of pace from last game. I know he's said that hes slowing down his posting to try and clean up his play but he has been extremely lurkish. He pushes Ghost pretty hard, but ironically enough it was his case against Ghost that made Ghost less suspicious for me. He ends up taking an extremely soft stance on the matter. He then makes a case against someone (me) who had a very similar train of though in terms of vote targets to himself. I'll have to wait to hear his response to my rebuttal to discern more probably but I do have my suspicions. Gumshoe- I think we need a case from Gumshoe soon, he's been active but not assertive, he needs to post an original case rather thanto continue to just evaluate others' cases.
Janaan- Extremely suspicious in my eyes, and after looking through his filter I think this case could be more suspicious than my k2hd case. Here is a quote from "Chocolate, of all the people with cases against them seems the most scummy to me, and I can't quite put my finger on why exactly." This quote sums up how he is playing to me. He's not making any original cases, he's not taking any hard stances. He defends with WIFOM constantly, and he has done nothing but agree with the most popular decision of the thread. Here is his filter. I don't have time to make a complete case on him at the moment, about to have to run to class, but just read through this filter and you'll see how useless he has been to the town up to this point. Will return with more after my classes, maybe even in class, if I'm feeling friskey.
Here he made a "case" against k2, but then completely disregards it in favour of Janaan.
Why would he do that? Why make a case and then completely disregard it?
Do you know what I think you are doing? You are creating potential "suspects" to get lynched on D2-D3-onwards.
You make all these players suspicious, so there's a bigger pool of suspects on later days to choose the lynch from. This ensures that town will be more confused as to who to lynch, and scum will get it easier to just choose a townie from those and push for his lynch (or have other townies do it for them).
So you make a "case" against k2, and then forget about it; but I'm sure you (or other scum) will eventually go back to it at some time to push k2's lynch if he's town.
Another option is him being scum and you're bussing him, which doesn't bring that much attention to him since you dropped off the case immediately.
I also don't agree with this "If you don't make a case you are suspicious" mentality. Don't you know how easy it is to make purposefully bad PBPA cases as scum?
It's also easy to paint other players suspicious for not doing so, when you are doing it so yourself (for instance, I spent all time making bad cases on townies when I was scum on Newbie II).
Which is something else I believe you are doing.
He also tried to get a last-minute switch towards Steveling at the end of D1.
He fully knows how those works, since he experienced one the last game he was in. He knows that 90% of the time they result in a misslynch and gives town no info whatsoever (check Newbie II for another example).
On February 29 2012 03:20 Alderan wrote:
Response to Sloosh's case:
As for the whole Chocolate/Ghost issue, I think it might be helpful for you to see the timeline of my thought process-
- Searching through filters looking for suspicious people.
- Read Chocolate's filter and think "Hey! All this stuff is absolutely bizarre, no ones made any concise cases yet, let's give it a shot".
- While making post, realize that the voting three times in the first 12 hours of the game is really weird for anyone, scum included, so after I posted the Chocolate post I went back to see why he would have done it.
- Make the "Ghost hypothetical" post prior to checking Ghost's filter.
- Went back to check his filter, realized he was actually not suspicious to me at this point because he is playing far too aggressively, which is why I told Sloosh I had a "hunch" about Ghost.
- Without posting that sentiment, I waited for Ghost to respond (just to get some more info), which he did more than adequately, and I dropped my suspicion of him.
Sorry, but this doesn't make any sense.
While making a case against choco, you realise that his voting pattern was "really weird for anyone, scum included", and you continued to make the case and post it?
What?
As for other players:
I still get the hunch Choco is town, I doubt he would change his scum play so drastically since the last game he played.
phagga and NightFury strike me as town as well, they made sense initially, and have an enthusiastic tone on their post, or at least trying to contribute.
DoYouHas is making sense as well and seems to try to contribute and help town atmosphere, although I don't agree with him being so intent to lynch igabod last day.
zelblade is town, mostly because I think FF was town. His first post rings well too.
Considering this, it reduces the amount of players for the remaining 3 scum, which is good.
The replacements for igabod/steve could be a possibility. ghost could very well be too, but I am not very confident in him being scum at the moment.
sloosh has upped his game since the start of the game, specially with his case against Alderan, so I'm not confident in him being scum now either.
As for gumshoe, k2, Janaan, they are null to me at the moment, but I'd be willing to bet that at least one of them is scum.
/Hyde
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![[image loading]](http://i2.listal.com/image/3029484/475full.jpg) Start of Day 2
Unsettled by the anticlimactic, inconclusive feeling of the night's events, the Liquidia crew headed to bed, most of them shaking their heads and some darting sidelong glances at their fellow crewmates with veiled suspicion. There were killers among them, they just knew it. And they weren't wrong at all.
As the night shift began, the four changelings dripped or slithered out of their hiding places and shimmered into new forms, mimicking the face and figures of four ordinary maintenance workers from the day shift. Following the signs and arrows along the walls, the changelings sought to find their way to Liquidia's bridge, hoping to overpower the night shift commander and take over the ship's helm. On their way to the bridge, however, the four changelings were startled when a door slid open along the wall in front of them and the sleepy face of maintenance worker Janaan gazed out. Unable to sleep, he had decided to look for a midnight snack at the mess hall.
Instead, he found himself staring at his own face, the same one that confronted him every day in the mirror, but on another person's body. Janaan cried out in horror, wondering if he were lost in a nightmare. The sound of raised voices and hurrying feet answered his shout. Alarmed, the four changelings exchanged glances. Janaan watched in disbelief as three of the changelings melted back into liquid form and poured away into dark corners or crevices. He tore his eyes away, only to see the remaining changeling -- the one wearing his face -- looming terrifyingly above him and extending his fingertips into long, deadly claws. The changeling sank those claws into Janaan's chest, killing him almost instantly, before liquefying himself and disappearing before the ship's security officers arrived in time.
Janaan the Townie is dead.
It is now Day 2. You have 48 hours to vote for whom to lynch. The deadline is Friday, Mar 02 3:00am GMT (GMT+00:00).
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Why Janaan?
This doesn't make much sense, seems like that Valonis kill from NMM1.
Well, I posted my reads and it's getting late here, so I'm going to sleep.
/Hyde
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Well that was a bit....unexpected. Good luck town, take out those scum!
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Ok so who was pressuring janaan, no one thats who, janaan was a safe productive townie, he probably struck scum as blue, killing him would ensure that all the current conflicts stick around, it is always smarter for mafia to not lynch suspects, creates more uncertainty.
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now the game can begin ( :
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hmm well look like he was getting pressured, my bad, I think scum just thought he was blue to be honest.
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TestSubject and alderan had begun pressuring him
BassInSpace
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On February 29 2012 12:29 k2hd wrote:
TestSubject and alderan had begun pressuring him
BassInSpace
sorry you got sniped.
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As for why janaan, there is the possibility that he was killed because alderan started pressuring him, and if he was scum, the kill would make alderan look more innocent. Why kill janaan if testsubject and alderan had started making cases on him, wouldn't it be better for scum to leave him alive to absorb some pressure? Alternatively it could just be a scum ploy to heap more pressure on an already suspicious alderan.
BassInSpace
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I'm still in school making a short post from my phone.
We dont know why mafia hit jannan, and we will not know till after the game. Looking at who started to push him and deriving who is scum based on that alone is weak and wifom. Perhaps he was on the right track , perhaps they thought he was blue (doubtful), perhaps they decided to hit him to confuse us. There is no point continuing to harp on the night kill and we shouldnt take it as a major factor when pushing someone.
Also I have a few suspicions, will elaborate when I get home and onto a computer.
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EPT
