On March 13 2012 09:53 Jitsu wrote: I'd also like to apologize for my shitty play too. I got demoralized pretty early, with a few things that just made me feel like no one gave two shits of my views or anything. I figured I wasn't being assertive enough, but IDK...Sorry again dudes. GG VE, sorry I let you down, Town.
Thanks a lot to Palmar/Sandro for letting me into this game, and hosting it as well. It was actually really fun.
The night when the vote was between RoL and Toad, and I was pretty much the deciding vote...holy shit, I never stirred so much in my career here. I spent the entire last hour of the day pacing back and forth before I was like "Fuck it, going with my gut on RoL." Alas, too little, too late.
If anyone has any criticism, comments, or general asshole-tearing of my game play, i'd love to hear it.
well you did a good job making sure everyone knows you're a townie imo. While other guys were quite hard to read (like risk / cwave until wbg "confirmed" him d2 or d3) you were one of my stronger townreads besides Jackal and syllo. However I don't remember why :p
On March 02 2012 07:08 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: lol excuse me ? When did I claim scum toad? Coming from someone who has had helvetica gunning for him for the last 30 hours and somehow just lucked into losing a vote you seem to have learned to nut up.
That's literally how I felt in this game, LITERALLY, not even kidding. I was so mad at some points in this game.
On March 13 2012 11:13 BloodyC0bbler wrote: [...] Anyone who says lynching an sk is a bad move as the sk is playing pro town? You are retarded. Sk's are pro sk. They will help either side as needed to achieve their own win condition. Do not rely on them. When it hit 6v4 it was actually 5v4v1 and town could no longer win. It ended up being a game of determining if scum or sk won, the game should never reach that point so fast.
It was not about not lynching the sk, we just had no oppertunity to lynch him. We had a bunch of 100% confirmed mafias and we were in lylo. Yeah we were no longer able to win without a save but given that we needed a save lynching mafias first is the right thing because it gives us multiple nights to get that save while lynching the third party first is risky.
I'm perfectly fine with telling people to not think about a "pro-town" 3rd party when we're at lylo as long as there's still mafia alive. We had 2 townies that were INCREDIBLE hard to get on the right lynch and I did not want to lose them to some manipulation from someone else and have people talking about alternatives when we really needed to hit mafia or it's an insta-lose.
There was no way to win without protection. To get more chances to get that we obviously take the saver route and lynch mafia first. It's a closed set-up after all and noone knew about mafias abilities. Yeah it's a stupid thing to say a SK is "pro-town" but it got people lynching mafia which was needed.
Well I said wbg, RoL and Laya are all like 99% confirmed mafia to me and you (BC) are something like 90% for me. When should we have lynched the sk instead? Cwave wasn't even sure who might be the sk the last possible day. You think lynching a day earlier to try and hit the sk instead of the mafia would have been better? That way people at least still got a full 48hours of reads because people finally started to talk, although it did not help.
Trying to hit the SK instead of mafia would have been stupid. It would have been more risky, it would take away time to better judge the situation for people and after all it was a closed setup. Yeah it really looked like we got a third party but what if that (although reasonable) assumption would have been wrong? We would have lynched into a townie 100% making us lose.
There was not a single reason to try and hit someone else first.
On March 13 2012 11:52 Toadesstern wrote: Well I said wbg, RoL and Laya are all like 99% confirmed mafia to me and you (BC) are something like 90% for me. When should we have lynched the sk instead? Cwave wasn't even sure who might be the sk the last possible day. You think lynching a day earlier to try and hit the sk instead of the mafia would have been better? That way people at least still got a full 48hours of reads because people finally started to talk, although it did not help.
Trying to hit the SK instead of mafia would have been stupid. It would have been more risky, it would take away time to better judge the situation for people and after all it was a closed setup. Yeah it really looked like we got a third party but what if that (although reasonable) assumption would have been wrong? We would have lynched into a townie 100% making us lose.
There was not a single reason to try and hit someone else first.
You should never have had townies like prpl, redff, and blazing play worse games than any of the scum. We did near fuck all and appeared more town than they did. One or two bad players whatever. But seriously toad, aside from sheep other people you helped keep the thread so cluttered that analyzing people was insanely hard + created an atmosphere that made the game hard to read/keep motivated to play. I know you love this game, and I love seeing that passion. I love that you are trying to get better and I see that. But you need to slow down your posting, take a step back and seriously think things through. The same can be said of a few other players this game but you lived longer. Your claim was bad only in that you could never prove it. You auto confirmed kita as town when up till the point of his claim he had played as badly as I had for very similar reasons. Yet he was confirmed for a lynch that (although we didnt) mafia would easily have pushed.
The complete ignoring of basic logical conclusions in a game of manipulation astounds me on so many levels. There is way to much blind trust.
BH claimed people were like "hes legit" but his play was bad enough to get him lynched around his claim point Redff claimed and people said "hes obviously town" no he wasnt. Claiming does not mean you are town, ever, unless your role auto confirms you -_-
I really tried to calm down this game. I think I mentioned somewhere pretty early that I only had half the filter VE had which is already a big deal for me. I just got really pissed (again) this game seeing people who didn't care at all about this game. I got really mad about risk not playing at all just to find out he's a townie the moment he got replaced out (yeah wifom but whatever) and well d3 or so I realized that there were like 5 people tops who were really willing to play this game so I just ignored my good intentions and just bullshitted to try and fish for reactions. I know that's fucking up the thread and it's really hard (if not impossible) for town to figure out if I'm a townie who's being retarded on purpose or a mafia who's being retarded on purpose but from my point of view it's really easy to figure out mafia that way because I got so many people crawling out of their holes yelling "LYNCH TOAD NAO" being happy to finally contribute at scumhunting. I literally painted myself as a target to figure out mafia myself and yeah that's screwing up the thread but by d2/d3 I really didn't care anymore about the thread because there was nothing imo.
Yeah probably pretty selfish and I can see what VE meant when saying something along the lines "Toad is always the most important person in this game in Toads opinion" :p
It's just like that every game. I'm getting into the game telling myself "Well this game I'm going to play seriously as town and try standard scumhunting" and once I get pissed about something (like in L after noone was listening to me, like in this game after realizing that noone was playing this game) I just don't feel like putting in more effort anymore and just scumhunt that way because it's way easier. You just can't prove it to other people because noone knows if I'm doing that on purpose or not :p
On March 13 2012 12:31 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Read ver's guide a bunch of times and learn better scumhunting. You weren't really able to explain your convoluted logic for finding scum and I ended up not understanding why you even suspected WBG at all. You were very focused on odd coincidences and WIFOM in this game rather than looking at how scum behave imo
Well the issue is that I can't really explain that because it heavily realies on knowing if I am telling the truth or not which you do not know. If I lied about X and Y to get A talking about X, Y and possibly myself I can't tell you that because there's no way I can prove to you that I did that on purpose (or more importantly why I did that on purpose), so I just sticked with my plan to just figure out mafia myself hoping that town would simply believe me when I tell them I did that on purpose after delivering RoL and WBG. Turned out it was pretty hard to convince people to just lynch WBG or RoL :p
I guess kita asking for a mass-claim was the one thing that made him think kita is the SK? IT could be interpreted like he wanted to have that information for "somthing" but him being a SK made little sense given the situation.
On March 13 2012 17:24 Dirkzor wrote: Thanks for hosting Palmar/Sandroba.
Sorry for playing less optimal this game and for blowing up DrH. Syllo already slapped me verbally for that =)
I think WBG played really well. One of the reasons that I think I played bad was that I didn't wanted to play. It wasn't enjoyable for me to read, respond and scum hunt this game. This is the only game so far that I've wanted to quit mid game. This was due to the town atmosphere which was, imo, destroyed early day 1 by WBG/redFF. So well played by WBG!
Any comments or critismn are welcomed...
idk, imo it was more of an angry feeling that town was sheeping so much. Obviously since I was town myself that's what I remeber the most. We had good lynch options every day and every day wbg came along saying "Well if X, Y, Z are our options we should lynch X and not Y and Z" and townies followed him. Worst part is that I did it as well. I was on BC d1 and got freaked out about BH's behavor resulting in me switching to redFF again. Next day we lynched BH although I really wanted RoL or VE dead instead, but in the end I voted BH because noone else was going to hang that day. D3 I really wanted to hang RoL or VE or WBG lynched and kita made his powerranking saying prpl is his #1 read and out of nowhere bugs comes along and says we should proceed to lynch prpl that day and I was sheeping it again because I was really trusting kita at that point in time and ignored RoL, VE and WBG because I did not think it's possible.
D4 I said I want to either lynch RoL, VE or WBG again, wbg isnta waltzed in the thread telling me if that's the people I'm willing to lynch we should lynch VE which pretty much sealed the deal on RoL for me :p It was really frustrating because I thought every day the lynch could be better and had to end up with people I was not happy to lynch because I had doubts.
EPT
