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Well this situation sucks, but before I say anything regarding our next move I would like to spend a moment addressing two ways in which we fucked ourselves that have nothing to do with janaans mislynch, the first is this+ Show Spoiler + If you are gonna go all DYH on me too, I don't know what else to say.
I will be the first to admit that I was sure that lynching DYH ,even though I pretty much knew he was town, was the right choice, why? Because it eliminates conflict, without DYH we clear the air. Now I realize the trap, DYH's loss was a sacrifice, one we could only make once, from now on we should be wary of players who evoke his name and make similar death plights, that draw our thoughts back to that initial doubt, as a result I ask that those confronted address the issues against them rationally without trying to rely on sympathy.
the other thing?, we just witnessed the most fundamental chainsaw weakness, we all knew that it was unlikely that everyone on matt's list was scum, that was too easy, but two of them at least most certainly are. Lets not get distracted from our primary cases, we lynch hawk tomorrow, also now that we know janaan is innocent hawks tunnel on him is all the more suspicious, also I have a feeling the mafia are fucking with us by lynching janaan, they taunt us by pretty much saying "go ahead lynch hawk! Had to be him or janaan right? hahahah" I'm not buying it, we stay the course, we lynch hawk tomorrow and take it from there.
Note I will not lynch another player in his place without being given an incredibly strong case as to why this other player is a better lynch and is more of a threat.
If you suspect someone you previously trusted, ask them questions and if your 100 percent sure build a detailed case against them, otherwise idle accusations serve us no purpose. I'm talking to you sloosh, please just try talking to steve, stve please try answering all of sloosh's questions.
Once again I reafirm Hawk is our strongest case, right now we need a sure thing, we cant get distracted. I told you guys wed have to pick up the pieces didnt I? Another thing, scum are more likely to slip up in a comfortable atmosphere
Lets make things a bit more easygoing k? Zell I invite you back to help us out and prove your case, alderaan we really need to start hearing your thoughts. Track please tell us what you think of Steveling,
From now on we don't accuse anyone unless were damm sure they're mafia and the only person I am damn sure is scum is hawk, if your suspicious ASK QUESTIONS if your sure, post a detailed case going through the majority of their posts.
And no more chainsaw attacks, you can point out collaborative effort if it helps your case but a chainsaw is just begging to be torn apart like matt's was. Remember if people are mafia they will damn themselves, we lynch hawk. This isn't staying the course, this is a natural response to a powerful case that hasn't been refuted by anyone.
Sloosh can I please get your comments on my case?
+ Show Spoiler +
Hawk needs to be lynched next. His posts reek of trying to create conflict.
Remember his early reads? Look at the people he called suspicius.
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +.
He is focusing suspicion on the four players who are most active and most constructive at this point in the game.
His reasonings? Sloosh:Too defensive,Ech: to offensive,DYH: jumps on mistakes (can easily just be seen pressure at this stage in the game) Jaj:Shouldve pressured someone else basically he calls all these players suspicious for active behaviour.
What really gets me is that he is accusing jaj of flashy play when jaj really isn't that bad at this point in time and his accusation of Mg was just because he felt the game was stagnating and Mg was playing too safe, also Jaj was detective so your point about him supporting flashy players because he's flashy is mute on two accounts, 1) of the four people you called suspicius Jaj is the least flashy, and 2) it was just a false accusation. What is interesting though is your assault against jaj convinientley defending flashy players convinientley backs up your implicit argument against flashy players.
Hawk is trying to cause conflict here and plant the seed of suspiciun against active players which is horrible, because if your suspiciuns are founded on whose playing flashy/active, than that means in your eyes players who continue to contribute condemn themselves more and more. If this is your stance as a town player you need to drop it right now because it's poison, but I don't think you have to worry about that because I am almost sure you are mafia.
I still stand by my suspicions of players who supported me early on purely because a) there is no risk involved in backing me up if they know I'm town and b) the move provides easy credibility if I am lynched.
your whole post begins with me.
+ Show Spoiler +
1) I didn't suspect gladius for the set up, I suspected gladius because he made really safe bets and was active in the thread but didn't see the need to take any risks like several other players did. You also didn't even post the second part of my anylysis which was just a few posts down
+ Show Spoiler +
This is very relevant information, in fact I consider it far more useful analysis than the comments on setup. You don't even mention how I pointed out that behaviour, you subtract everything except my comment on setup. I feel like you are actually playing down my suspicions and reducing them to just the comment on setup, which the following person would later say isn't really condemming:
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
In all three of these he admits there is reason to suspect Mg,
but those reasons never seem to make him suspect Mg, in fact next time his comments on Mg the scum slip vanishes and is replaced with
+ Show Spoiler +
Notice how he keeps re-mentioning the setup? Thats because the setup argument isnt that strong alone, yet Zell continuously seems to suggest our strongest argument against Mg is the setup which really is'nt the case, our argument against mg is that he plays too soft and only attacks as he said easy targets and those who attack him.
This looks like teamwork. Hawk plays down my analysis of Mg and reduces it to me accusing Mg of commenting on the setup and Zell repeatedly mentions how this setup argument is'nt a valid basis for accusing Mg.
Also what the hell is this?
+ Show Spoiler +
how is this behaviour helpful to town? Also Mg has played like 1 or two games and you want to exonorate him because in his first or second game his play style was unhelpful? Cmon man, you cant be that blind. Dont worry though Zell when lynch him Mg we promise not even to bring up the setup kk?
ok that said I am making a case for Hawk not Mg or Zell, one scum at a time right?
Now moving onto the rest of that post regarding me!
+ Show Spoiler +
Notice how he tries to discredit me further? He says I'm scrambling to stay alive, he makes me sound like someone desperate, someone willing to say anything to live, someone you shouldn't even remotely trust a word out of because they're not in their right mind, you know who sounds like that? Scum under pressure, yet whats his next line? not scum. He says it with such authority, much better players than hawk in this game are far less convinced that I'm town, but listen to that confidence. Not scum he says bah.
Hawk accomplishes three things with this post.
1)He makes me out to be out to be witless, which suggests that he's encouraging people people not to listen to what I've said so far, in other words don't listen to my accusation of Mg.
2)He protects himself in case I'm lynched and flip green.
3)Downplays the arguments against Mg that I made by just saying its suspicious how mg comments on setup, which sets up players like Zell to continuously mention how baseless the setup accusation is in his future defences of Mg.
His assurance that I'm town lays the boundaries for his next few accusations.
+ Show Spoiler +
Pounces on steveling for a newbie mistake, then accuses him of suspecting me. He does a similar thing with DYH if you read back on why he's suspicious of him.
+ Show Spoiler +
makes himself out to be better than another player because hes less apologetic, oh hawk, you are aware that players are a bit nervous their first time right? Why you see the need to separate yourself from typically nervous new players is very interesting.
Mitch has also pointed out the several positive/null reads on zell mg and track so look back at that if you want.
Heres a nice jem that comes up. in regard to Ech
+ Show Spoiler +
Contradiction. earlier you say:
+ Show Spoiler +
now here comes the biggest reason we should suspect Hawk which is also the most obvius.
+ Show Spoiler +
Provides the killing blow against dimm, this is suspicius within itself, but read what he says next.
+ Show Spoiler +
Da fuck? Why you would leave just before you find out if the guy you just killed, is scum or not?
You are more invested than ANYONE in this result because YOU ARE THE REASON DIMM DIED! Yet you dont wait 6 seconds to find out the result? Why else would you not wait unless you already knew the outcome?
CAN I GET A PRAISE SCUMSLIP!!!!!!!
When he comes back ages later?
+ Show Spoiler +
He comes back and doesn't even comment on the fact that he caused a misslnch?
First time townie my ass, if he was town he would be apologizing to oblivion for causing a mislynch, instead though he attacks Janaan! A player who hasn't even seemed remotley scummy up to this point. No one has accused Janaan exept me and that was my nightmare post, Hawk is using this useless tunnel on janaan to avoid commenting on the major cases at play. His tunnel on Janaan is founded in part on Janaan being suspicious of ME, again how is hawk so confident I'm town? Hes not even considering me as mafia, why? Because he know im not. Heres my favourite high light of his post
+ Show Spoiler +
Umm you know who else does that...?
+ Show Spoiler +
You are putting suspicion on Janaan for not having a read on Mg which is something I would say you are notorious for. You are clearing yourself of suspiciun for a crime by showing how guilty someone else is for that exact same crime.
Fun fact: it is eons before you answer for the mislynch.
Oh here another defence of mg post in the meantime.
+ Show Spoiler +
He defends Mg by casting doubt on mg's accuser. Hello indirect support! Hello scum 101!
+ Show Spoiler +
I hate it when players try to shut down conversation, this is exactly what Hawk is doing here. He also makes another attempt to discredit me without accusing me. Yet thats not the gem of this post, look at the bolded part.
Look, a townie's biggest job, the job that is the hardest and burdens them all throughout the game, is the job of convincing others that they are worth listening to. Hawk does not do this. He makes no attempt to contribute in a positive way, he is very hostile and the only person he doesn't seem to really suspect... is me. Hawk is not trying to convince us to trust him. He is trying to make himself distant.
By saying I follow my own reads he is essentially saying I trust myself and no one else. Which is a horrible thing to say for a town whose job it is to convince OTHER towns.There is no humanity in his posts, he is beyond cold. This bolded part suggests that when day three roles around he will bust open a huge case and expose all the mafia. Which isnt going to happen because in scenario a) he is town and no one listens to him because he comes off as hostile and suspicious and in scenario b) he is mafia and he is trying to make his opinions as useless as possible(just like he's trying to make mine.) without seeming blatantly suspicious.
Please someone tell I am wrong on all these accounts.
Tell me how Hawk wasn't the reason a townie died.
Tell me why he is actively trying to seem so hostile to the point that we will never listen to him.
Tell me how his tunnel on Janaan is useful.
Tell me how he's so sure that I am town.
But most of all please tell me a story about why this man is not mafia. So that I can tell you a story about why you are.
##vote TKHawkins
I stand by one lynch at a time, this is the lynch. This is the start of our victory.
"Every worthwhile accomplishment, big or little, has its stages of drudgery and triumph; a beginning, a struggle and a victory."
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On February 23 2012 12:36 Steveling wrote:
What happened to 1 lynch at a time. Just hours ago everyone thought of it like a gospel.
Guess what changed with the double town killing tonight.
Nothing. That's right.
There are still four scum.
We still have two solid cases.
It's 5am now but the worse thing is, I feel like nothing good came out of it. Cya tomorrow.
I think your case on trackd00r is weak.
It highlights some sub-optimal play but that's it.
It boils down to, 'he isn't that great of a player, so let's lynch him'.
He does give reasoning and he does put effort into contributing. You might not like the quality of the content but it doesn't make him scum, it makes him a newbie, which is the type of game we are playing.
You don't even consider his defense of your accusation. It's like you are certain he is scum and won't even listen to him. Don't even say anything about DYH - I gave him chances to respond twice before making my decision. You haven't listened to him once.
As for TKHawkins, I still want to avoid that, not only for the reason that too many people are pushing for his and trackd00r's case, but this whole replacement thing is iffy and I would like that sorted out before we do anything.
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@gumshoe:
On February 22 2012 05:06 gumshoe wrote:
Tell me how Hawk wasn't the reason a townie died.
Tell me why he is actively trying to seem so hostile to the point that we will never listen to him.
Tell me how his tunnel on Janaan is useful.
Tell me how he's so sure that I am town.
But most of all please tell me a story about why this man is not mafia. So that I can tell you a story about why you are.
Read over your case, and I don't like it. You are going in with the assumption that he is mafia and interpreting everything according to that.
Hawk wasn't the reason that DimmuKlok was lynched. We all wanted to avoid a no-lynch. Sure he fumbled with the votes, but its a newbie game. He came from scII land and he genuinely might not know how to vote, seeing as its his first time.
Your perceived hostility of him is actually his response to Mattchew's antagonistic style. I know how mad I can get when people treat my posts condescendingly and calls them "retarded". Now, this is my second game playing, and I understand that there is an element of role playing. I can see him genuinely hurt from Matt's verbal assault - he doesn't have that tought exterior we develop playing mafia.
His FOS on Janaan was wrong, but that doesn't make him scum. The reasoning he provides for suspecting Janaan is understandable. He is clear. You might not like his logic but it isn't contradictory.
I can't tell you why he thinks you are town. He has to answer for himself.
I'm keeping my vote on Steveling till I hear his response. Call it a gut feel but something doesn't stick right with me in his actions post night 2. However, I want more information before I can consolidate anything - offering half complete cases will just get shot down fast and coming back with a reformed case just doesn't hold that much weight.
More specifically: Zelblade, Alderan , rgTheSchworz - please come in and post.
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So it seems that vig shot has pushed us to MYLO. Well at the very least this shows us that mattchew's case is weak.
I have read through the thread and various filters and I still think that trackd00r is definately our best option today.
Trackdoor doesnt have any strong reads, nor does he actively push them. Looking through his filter, one can easily see that he has been sheeping all game long. He starts out by getting onto the ET wagon based on his "flashy and agressive" attitude. Afterwards, during the minutes leading up to the day 1 lynch, he propses Dimmuklok - using Aldrean's accusations as his base - as an alternative targert since we apparently couldnt get a lynch on either MG or ET. He than accuses DYH, before throwing out a weak (and never followed up) FOS on Aldrean, than goes back to voting for DoYouHas. After that he goes on to accuse hawkins after the mattchew case comes up.
Look through his filter and you will notice that all his accusations are really SAFE. He hasnt called out anyone for anything unless someone else has already done it. He says that he doesnt like ET's behaviour, but only votes after I have done so. His pick for a day 1 lynch is a safe lurker. He pushes DYH day 2 after pretty much everyone has decided to lynch him. He FOS's Aldrean only after MG's case. He attacks hawkins only after mattchew's case. Even in there, he selects the easiest targert among the four - the one under the most scrunity - TKHawkins. Not to mention that his case is really weak, and even his read on Hawkins isnt a hard one. Notice how his only scum read coming into day 3 is Hawkins. This is proof that he hasnt been actively hunting scum. Just look at this post for example.
Uh, I think I didn't express myself correctly with that post
What I said is to wait if someone was going to replace him. If not, it would have been the removal of one player, since there are not any back up as I looked OP. In that case, it would be no point of voting for him
I will vote for him he is goes on. Here is why. I just don't feel like exhausting the case any further. At the rate we are going, he will be lynched next day.
But I insist that TK is probably being manipulated by his team mates by the way he is playing. This means that there has to be any kind of mastermind trying to direct his actions, like for example MidnightGladius. I've re-read DYH case on him and then looked at your defense to Matt, and I think things are making more sense now.
I'll post my thoughts about MG in a while.
As for zelblade, I can't get a good read of him. Checking his filter.
Even though, Mattchew reads town for me. My disapproval to his earlier posts was mostly because the way he presented the case and made it's presence. Now that I'm more calm, I actually see a very good guess he is making. Maybe perhaps there is more than a reason that TK is RQing.
I agree with his town reads, and I'm happy with the fact that he is constantly pushing his cases. If this continues, he can easily control the flow of the thread and can leave the mafia exposed.
What he has here is simple. He has one scum read on Hawkins, and feels that MG could be a "mastermind" due to his interactions with hawkins. He is null on me. Town on Matt. Why, as town, would he have only ONE scum read coming into day 3? Why, as town, hasnt he been actively hunting down scum? Why is he being so flip-floppy about his reads? Notice how he promises his thoughts on MG and to read my filter. Notice how these thoughts never come.
Instead, what has he done with his remaining time? Its goddammed MYLO and hes a viable lynch candidate. Why, is he not trying his best to prove his innocence at this point by getting his thoughts out? Instead, lets take a look at his gem of a last post.
Oh God... What a nightmare...
I'm not in the best shape to discuss, but this is what is going to happen. We are 4/6 mafia/town right now. There are two possible ways for the mafia to win this game right now.
1) Rushing and hoping to kill a townie at night 3. When they see a no-way-back target to lynch, they will jump to it and just wait for the kill. They'll try to keep all their effort to secure the mis lynch by leaving the target unable to defend himself back, such as ignoring any alternative candidates or keeping the focus closed. If they choose this way to end, surely they will be very active for a while, and suddenly escape out of the radar when they accomplished their goal.
2) Waiting an(-) extra day(s). Why do they do that you would ask? Mafia can't easily pull off their votes to a single target when there are multiple cases. The sudden jump on one of them will draw a notorious amount of suspicion by us and leave them exposed. So, they'll try to extend their voting range to many suspects with the following goals:
a) Not providing a proper direction to lynches.
b) Causing a no-lynch in order to disorganize us even more.
c) Leaving them with a cleaner background when switching votes the following days.
With this plan, they will probably be depending of night kills, so the medic in this case is crucial.
3) Sacrificing one of their members this night. It will give them credibility to push their agendas to secure a mislynch the next day, granted they made a successful kill the night before. I think that this possibility is the less probable to happen.
I feel that we need to watch out for every dangerous behavior present here that we can be facing. In (1) is constant pressure by them trying to get a lynch. In (2), it would be undecided voters and unclear opinions. (3) would be simply trying to find scumslips and contradictions.
Well, those are my thoughts right now. Comments? Oh wait. I forgot how many of you are convinced that I'm mafia, so I'm not expecting a good feedback from all this. sigh.
What is the townie motivation - especially one on the chopping block at MYLO - to posting this? Instead of getting his suspisions out there, he goes ahead to discuss the ways mafia can win....? There is zero motivation for a townie who was on the road to getting mislynched and losing the game because of it to post something like this. Once again, I dont see why a townie at this stage would have the time to type up a load of crap regarding mafia stratergy yet not be able to make any sort of subsantial case against anyone.
The numerous cases against trackd00r also add on to the fact that trackd0or is scum. Which is also why he gets my vote for today.
##Vote: trackd00r
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Since it seems that I might be a probable lynch candidate today I shall be using this post to defend myself. I have already stated time and time again why I feel that mattchew's case is weak, and I dont see many actual cases on myself today, with the exception of sloosh's. If any of you feel that my actions are scummy feel free to point them out and I will try my best to explain my decisions this game.
On February 23 2012 01:59 slOosh wrote:(I was going to post on all four but its taking longer than I thought so I don't think I have time to do it all, I'll post what I managed to do so far) With some reevaluations my own reads and consideration of DYH's reads, Mattchew's reads overlap pretty well with mine. I'll be looking to bring the case from speculation into substance. Zelblade: I don't like how his actions align with mafia agenda. It doesn't mean he is mafia, but I don't like it. His day 1 actions happen to be in best interest of mafia. Go for ET, prevent anything on MG, offer DYH as alternative, refocus people on DYH after night. I say it again - it doesn't mean he is mafia, but it does mean he warrants suspicion. So let us look. Observe here his stance on me and DYH Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 08:24 zelblade wrote:
slOosh and DYH attacking each other is .... interesting. The seeming lack of sloosh explaining his own views in indeed suspisious. He has posted a case on DYH - but only after being called out. The fact that it seems like an OMGUS doesnt exactly help either. However, his case on DYH is pretty good imo. I have no idea why DYH would want to advocate a no lynch this late. The way he phrases that post seems to give off the feel that he doesnt care much about the lynch. This feels really scummy and the fact that he isnt pushing any reads and is even fine with a no lynch - which he has stated against. Whats with the sudden change in attitude DYH? I think that DYH has a really good chance of flipping scum.
With that, I believe that DYH might be our best lynch for today. Although sl0osh seems somewhat suspisious, I believe that DYH is actually a better lynch due to his nonchalant attitude.
##Unvote
##Vote: DoYouHas Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 23:27 zelblade wrote:Now onto Sloosh and DoYouHas. As I have stated, I find it extremely suspisious of DYH's actions leading up to the lynch. Though he has given his motivations for advocating the no lynch, I still find it a little wierd, especially regarding his attitude. If he was indeed being stubborn on sloosh as he says, I would have expected him to push harder with something more convincing than this: If I have not been convincing enough with my case against sl0osh, so be it. Find the majority without me. Still, his responses against sloosh's case is good and seems valid. This doesnt clear him in my eyes though. Moving on to sloosh, I agree with DYH - he has been really hyprotical regarding DYH, and a good portion of what he accuses DYH of can apply to him as well. What I reallly am interested in would be sloosh's response to this. At this point though, I am fairly convinced that one of them is scum. Doubt that they are both scum, unless this is an elaborate bus which I highly doubt. Supports my case but makes sure to let people know how he is suspicious of me. How can you support a case from someone who you think could be scum?? It doesn't matter how good the case is, if a mafia is proposing it you don't support it. Now that DYH flipped town, he knows it can't be a bus. He is convinced that one of us is scum, but doesn't actually follow up on it. "Oh I think you could be scum but your case is pretty good so I'll support your lynch btw I still think you are scum. Oh the lynch was a townie. I'll ignore you now". I don't think anyone (even inexperienced players) would think / act like this. Also, in the same quote: Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 23:27 zelblade wrote:
Im posting my reads in case I die tonight. I would have prefered posting this closer towards the end of night, but am posting it now as I have school tomorrow and need to go sleep now, and will not be online from around now to about 5.00 KST (+8).
... (the quote above fits in here) ...
Another thing. I believe that all of you should post your reads tonight. If you dont believe in the value of posting your town reads (MG), just post your scum ones than. The reason for this is simple - we want to have as much information from you in case you are shot tonight.
Doesn't really make too much sense here. Only one person will die. His reason for posting is fear of death, and at the same moment tells other people to post just in case they die too. I don't understand why he thought he would die. This again aligns with mafia agenda - get people to post scum lists to make better night kills and make most chaos. (Will post maybe 1 more before I AWOL for IRL stuff until tomorrow evening in ~35 hours).
I dont see how my day 1 actions aglin with mafia agenda. I pushed for ET because of his sheep vote on MG. I felt this action in particular was scummy, and that he could have been mafia attempting to push an easy wagon. However, he later adressed not only my concerns, but also the concerns of many others, as well as posting a detalied case on MG. Whilst I didnt feel that MG was scum at that point, I decided to drop my vote on ET as he had redeemed himself in my eyes.
From there, I go on to vote for DoYouHas. I do state that the way the entire case seemed liked an OMGUS was wierd to me, I felt a little suspisious about it, but that doesnt mean I dont agree with the case. I didnt have a scum read on you - just some slight suspisions - and that doesnt mean that I cannot agree with your case. I felt that the way DYH left his vote on you before going off was a really wierd move and I had expected more from him, considering how much more willing he was to push his reads harder in Newbie Mini Mafia III.
Regarding the "one of them is scum", I reread the thread and your filter after DYH got lynched. Whilst I felt that one of you were scum at the time of that post, having reread, I believed that it could have been more of a case of tunnel vision and confirmation bias, something that you seemed to do with me last game (though I didnt actually get lynched). As such, I felt that that read wasnt a good one, and felt that you were town. Is it bad to constantly reevaluate my reads and drop my cases if I feel that they are wrong?
I have already explained as to why I posted those thoughts. Somebody last game used it against me, saying that I wasnt posting at night because I knew that I couldnt die as I was supposedly scum. Perhaps I overcompensated, but I didnt want to repeat that mistake again. Also, I dont think that getting people to post who they think they are scum is pushing the mafia agenda. In case they died, it would have been useful to know their suspisions, especially if they had important cases they had yet to post. Perhaps I am wrong regarding this, but I still dont see how it creates chaos.
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Day 3, with 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Current votes:
trackd00r (1): zelblade
Steveling (1): slOosh
TKHawkins (1): gumshoe
Not voting: Alderan, Mattchew, rgTheSchworz, trackd00r, EchelonTee, Steveling, TKHawkins
The Day deadline is at 2012-02-25 09:00:00. (That's approximately 1 day, 11:13:13 from now.)
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Next up I shall post my thoughts on the remaining players.
I feel that sloosh, ET & gum are probably town.
These are who I feel could be scum.
Mattchew is still suspisious to me. What I dont like most about him is how he feels so sure on me and his other 3 scum reads. He lumps all of us together, bases his entire case on weak links, as shown by MG flipping green. I also dont like how easily he jumps from voting DYH to saying that DYH is town 100% simply because of the lack of resistance. His attitude after the DYH flip came off as cocky scum to me, which is why I think that he has a good chance of flipping scum. I want to hear your thoughts regarding your scum reads now that MG has flipped green and you cant just point to your case.
Also I need to apologise to you and the hosts. I was pretty irritated yesterday due to doing quite badly for an exam, and your tone pissed me off. Still it was out of the line and I apologise for it.
TkHawkins is another obvious scum candidate. There are already strong points made against him and I agree with them. However I kind of want the ragequit thing to be settled first, and it seems hes probably going to be modkilled anyway.
I have no idea what rG is doing. I did say that I felt bale was town, but it was more of a gut read than anything. I dont like how much rG has been lurking. I feel that he has been given ample time to catch up with the thread. Its MYLO now and he needs to get in here and post his thoughts. He could very well be scum, but im not gonna bet the game that he is doing something stupid and has not caught up and much rather focus on our better targerts today.
Steveling is someone I have had a "enthuastic new townie" read on for quite a while. I still feel that this is the case, although his actions could easily be explained if he were to be scum. Process of elimination suggests to me that he has a rather high chance of flipping scum. Since im very sure that trackdoor is scum though, I still feel that he is town.
Alderan is another player that had given me town vibes with his inital posts. However, since then, he has gone lurk lurk quite a bit, posting very little content. I dont think that being against the DYH lynch adds any town points since he could easily be scum looking to gain some town cred. I also didnt really like his vote analysis as I felt that it was pretty inconclusive, although it is something to add against track. Could flip scum.
I believe that scum does indeed lie within this 5. At this point im only 100% sure on track.
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i fucking hate to do this... but zelblade actually makes the best case. Trackd00r has been playing "nice" scum the entire game, not stepping on any toes while literally doing next to nothing the entire game. Gum, I have other reasons that I will discuss in about 12 hours why I am not voting hawk. For now know that I do not disagree with you in the slightest.
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This is not final... but I do think this is the best lynch today
##vote trackd00r
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hey sloosh... do these 2 posts read the same to you
I had a strange feeling during both of these... they both look townie because of their "helpfulness and organization" but really anyone reading the thread should know this right? they also both try to buddy you
Scum Bromancipate from last newbie game
ET Post from this game
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On February 23 2012 13:47 slOosh wrote:@gumshoe: Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 05:06 gumshoe wrote:
Tell me how Hawk wasn't the reason a townie died.
Tell me why he is actively trying to seem so hostile to the point that we will never listen to him.
Tell me how his tunnel on Janaan is useful.
Tell me how he's so sure that I am town.
But most of all please tell me a story about why this man is not mafia. So that I can tell you a story about why you are.
Read over your case, and I don't like it. You are going in with the assumption that he is mafia and interpreting everything according to that. Hawk wasn't the reason that DimmuKlok was lynched. We all wanted to avoid a no-lynch. Sure he fumbled with the votes, but its a newbie game. He came from scII land and he genuinely might not know how to vote, seeing as its his first time. Your perceived hostility of him is actually his response to Mattchew's antagonistic style. I know how mad I can get when people treat my posts condescendingly and calls them "retarded". Now, this is my second game playing, and I understand that there is an element of role playing. I can see him genuinely hurt from Matt's verbal assault - he doesn't have that tought exterior we develop playing mafia. His FOS on Janaan was wrong, but that doesn't make him scum. The reasoning he provides for suspecting Janaan is understandable. He is clear. You might not like his logic but it isn't contradictory. I can't tell you why he thinks you are town. He has to answer for himself. I'm keeping my vote on Steveling till I hear his response. Call it a gut feel but something doesn't stick right with me in his actions post night 2. However, I want more information before I can consolidate anything - offering half complete cases will just get shot down fast and coming back with a reformed case just doesn't hold that much weight. More specifically: Zelblade, Alderan , rgTheSchworz - please come in and post.
How about how he leaves for food just before the night post? Or how he tries crumbing suspicion on all the active players in the game? Or how he tried to actually pass his own crimes off on janaan? Or how he showed no interest in building reputation with town? I follow my own reads? So post your own reads and then in that case why did he vote for DYH saying he's just our best option because of a scum slip no one else has put much stock into? Or how he contradicts himself regarding ech being on his radar? The only thing not scummy about him was that he was null on mg, perhaps cause he didn't want to attract attention? Cmon man he never even addressed the mslynch until he was blamed for it and then responded hostilely. If you think theres a better pick k but don't tell me that this guy doesn't give you scummy vibes.
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agree though, I would like to see if hawk gets modkilled.
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On February 23 2012 22:18 Mattchew wrote:
i fucking hate to do this... but zelblade actually makes the best case. Trackd00r has been playing "nice" scum the entire game, not stepping on any toes while literally doing next to nothing the entire game. Gum, I have other reasons that I will discuss in about 12 hours why I am not voting hawk. For now know that I do not disagree with you in the slightest.
One just shows the status you the other shows echs opinions, your liable to be held accountable for opinions, cant be though for lists which makes them fishy, they don't seem too similar ) :
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27 hour deadline still stand?
##unvote TkHawkins
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Listen to the logic sloosh. Read what gum,zel and mattchew are saying.
On February 23 2012 13:47 slOosh wrote:
Call it a gut feel but something doesn't stick right with me in his actions post night 2.
How do you have the nerve to post something like this in MYLO situation, while we have two valid cases.
If you keep this up I will consider you having vile intentions. And this isn't OMGUS.
On February 23 2012 13:47 slOosh wrote:
I'm keeping my vote on Steveling till I hear his response.
What response mate, we have being bantering all night long. I have said all that I had to say.
##vote trackd00r
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On February 24 2012 01:32 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2012 22:18 Mattchew wrote:
i fucking hate to do this... but zelblade actually makes the best case. Trackd00r has been playing "nice" scum the entire game, not stepping on any toes while literally doing next to nothing the entire game. Gum, I have other reasons that I will discuss in about 12 hours why I am not voting hawk. For now know that I do not disagree with you in the slightest. One just shows the status you the other shows echs opinions, your liable to be held accountable for opinions, cant be though for lists which makes them fishy, they don't seem too similar ) :
I mean its just formatted differently.. Bromancipate puts that his reads are on SS in that past game... plus theres no more accountability in this game... if scum get a mislynch they win so it doesnt matter how wrong they are
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On February 24 2012 03:12 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2012 01:32 gumshoe wrote:On February 23 2012 22:18 Mattchew wrote:
i fucking hate to do this... but zelblade actually makes the best case. Trackd00r has been playing "nice" scum the entire game, not stepping on any toes while literally doing next to nothing the entire game. Gum, I have other reasons that I will discuss in about 12 hours why I am not voting hawk. For now know that I do not disagree with you in the slightest. One just shows the status you the other shows echs opinions, your liable to be held accountable for opinions, cant be though for lists which makes them fishy, they don't seem too similar ) : I mean its just formatted differently.. Bromancipate puts that his reads are on SS in that past game... plus theres no more accountability in this game... if scum get a mislynch they win so it doesnt matter how wrong they are
True, Im rereading the game from start to finish right now, seeing if I can get a feel with a clear head, putting my vote on trak
##Vote: trackd00r
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I hate that RG is holding us hostage basically. He's not posting and there's no way we can get a read on him, and he can use the MYLO to never have to post constructively again.... shit sucks.
As for who we lynch today, I don't think we could feel good about lynching RG, he is going to have to be a target after we successfully hit scum today.
My scum list is still the exact:
Trackd00r
TKHawkins
Sloosh
I'm happy to lynch any of these three. With Trackd00r and TK being the top two choices.
Let's look at Trackd00r's only post since last nigh's debacle....
+ Show Spoiler +On February 23 2012 11:04 trackd00r wrote:
Oh God... What a nightmare...
I'm not in the best shape to discuss, but this is what is going to happen. We are 4/6 mafia/town right now. There are two possible ways for the mafia to win this game right now.
1) Rushing and hoping to kill a townie at night 3. When they see a no-way-back target to lynch, they will jump to it and just wait for the kill. They'll try to keep all their effort to secure the mis lynch by leaving the target unable to defend himself back, such as ignoring any alternative candidates or keeping the focus closed. If they choose this way to end, surely they will be very active for a while, and suddenly escape out of the radar when they accomplished their goal.
2) Waiting an(-) extra day(s). Why do they do that you would ask? Mafia can't easily pull off their votes to a single target when there are multiple cases. The sudden jump on one of them will draw a notorious amount of suspicion by us and leave them exposed. So, they'll try to extend their voting range to many suspects with the following goals:
a) Not providing a proper direction to lynches.
b) Causing a no-lynch in order to disorganize us even more.
c) Leaving them with a cleaner background when switching votes the following days.
With this plan, they will probably be depending of night kills, so the medic in this case is crucial.
3) Sacrificing one of their members this night. It will give them credibility to push their agendas to secure a mislynch the next day, granted they made a successful kill the night before. I think that this possibility is the less probable to happen.
I feel that we need to watch out for every dangerous behavior present here that we can be facing. In (1) is constant pressure by them trying to get a lynch. In (2), it would be undecided voters and unclear opinions. (3) would be simply trying to find scumslips and contradictions.
Well, those are my thoughts right now. Comments? Oh wait. I forgot how many of you are convinced that I'm mafia, so I'm not expecting a good feedback from all this. sigh.
Sure it's all WIFOM, but let's look past that....
There's nothing about these hypothetical situations that are relevant to us in my eyes. The task is on us. We have to identify one of the 4 scum, and put 5 of our votes on them, which will force the scum to vote for their own or be readily identified.
No use making it more confusing than it is, in a time that is already going to be exceedingly hectic for us.
Now for TKHawkins actions since the night post...
Oh yeah, he already "quit".
All this inactivity, is in my mind, proof we have found two of them at least. Let's lynch one of them and get back on the right track...
TK and Track, we need you to come back and be active, if you are town we can clear you, but that's only if you give us a reason to do so.
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On February 23 2012 22:36 Mattchew wrote:hey sloosh... do these 2 posts read the same to you I had a strange feeling during both of these... they both look townie because of their "helpfulness and organization" but really anyone reading the thread should know this right? they also both try to buddy you Scum Bromancipate from last newbie gameET Post from this game
Probulous posted the list in that game and didn't really comment on it. I posted my list and put some words on it. The reason I posted the list is because this game became a clusterfuck after last night's flip.
This day is pretty weird. I can't help but feel that we are being played.
I see two possible scenarios that we are in:
1. Mattchew is town - 2 or 3 of the remaining people from his original list are scum. People's reactions to him are largely due to their fear that Mattchew has exposed them. DYH seemed to indicate that he largely agreed with Mattchew.
2. Mattchew is scum - In this case, the team would likely be something like Mattchew, Blae/rG, Alderan, Steveling. The only reason why I think this could be the case is because something just feels fishy as hell. It might be dumb to consider these gut instincts at MYLO, but I can't shake the feeling that this game is heading towards complacency. When scum have a stranglehold over town activity, this sort of lackadaisical feeling takes hold, as it has done now. Mattchew's flashy post does remind me of TL L, but I don't know. I don't want to think Mattchew is scum, but there's just something unsettling. If MG had flipped red I wouldn't have any qualms.
All the players in the game currently are pushing towards "lynch TKHawkins and trackd00r. not TK i guess since he might be modkilled but definitely trackd00r. and don't worry that nearly everyone wants trackd00r dead, Mafia is probably busing". Because that worked so well concerning the DYH lynch huh. I feel that trackd00r is the wrong play.
...Honestly I think I want to lynch Steveling. His response to mattchew's post (regardless of Mattchew's alignment) was strange; he was all like "SHIT WE WON THE GAME WITH THIS GAIZ", which was pretty contrary to how the general town felt towards it. His D1 was not good (advocate no lynch, initial post is a Lol@gumshoe). I feel that all game he has only put down reads after suspicion was pretty well established. And no one has really addressed Steveling all game. I feel like he has slipped by unnoticed while having an apperance of contribution.
##Vote: Steveling
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EPT
