EPTOn January 30 2012 20:19 Palmar wrote:
Which game was that?
Which game was that?
Responsibility Mafia!
Hammer Mini Mafia - Page 29
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
Responsibility Mafia! | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
I was traitor in that game... | ||
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
Oh, you told me you were town via PM after the game after I ask you if you were scum. I didn't bother to check the thread afterwards to see whether or not you were lying. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
On January 30 2012 20:28 Palmar wrote: what? no I didn't. Go to sleep LSB, nothing you say makes sense, you're not helping yourself. W/e I'm going to sleep | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
I sent 1 vote to risk.nuke because he looks greener than an accident in a blue and yellow paint factory. Having read through all of his day1 filters he seems to be acting very typically. He explains himself about as well as he normally does and he came to an opinion and voiced it against the majority. He is aggressive and he pushes what he appears to think is in town's best interests. WTF?: On January 30 2012 18:58 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: ##Vote layabout For reasons stated before. What reasons? The only thing you have really said about me is that i posted "fluff" LSB: I think that lynching LSB would be very stupid. He has made more sense than most of the rest of you combined. If you read his posts it's clear that he felt that transfering 2 votes would help with re-balancing, so him supporting and then doing that is not scummy at all, unless of course you believe the entire plan was just to get town to give votes to scum but if you thought that you had many opportunities to say it, since we we so late starting lynch discussion. I do not like that paperscraps is voting for him because i think that paperscraps's approach to the game is just bad. It seems like paperscraps is voting for him because LSB called his logic bad. I am also not comfortable with following Palmar on who to lynch because: Palamar typically has strong day1 reads but i think he was wrong about WBG and i know he is wrong about me. VE could be scum but i would need to re-evaluate before giving an opinion i can support. I have a town read on LSB. Palmar seemed to have made up his mind about who was scum before they had really began posting + Show Spoiler [examples] + found in his filter http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303505&user=87086 On January 26 2012 18:33 Palmar wrote: @prplhz: Because I'm just that awesome. I suggest we kill Bugs, he's good as scum and bad as town. On January 27 2012 05:22 Palmar wrote: let's lynch layabout for trying to play gandhi he was also very late to justify himself against bugs. I am not calling him scum but i do not trust what he has been saying. In light of this i see no reason to lynch LSB. + Show Spoiler [perhaps i am being petty] + On January 30 2012 13:40 prplhz wrote: Please correct me if I'm wrong. Bold means unaccounted for, in VP sent or VP received. + Show Spoiler + Palmar 2 -> Paperscraps Jackal58 1 -> Palmar chaoser LSB 2 -> layabout prplhz 1 -> Palmar Dirkzor 1 -> risk.nuke 1 -> Palmar [UoN]Sentinel 2 -> prplhz Paperscraps 1 -> jaybrundage 1 -> prplhz MeatlessTaco 1 -> Node 1 -> [UoN]Sentinel VisceraEyes 1 -> LSB layabout 1 -> Palmar 3 - 2 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 4 Jackal58 3 - 1 != 3 chaoser 3 = 3 LSB 3 - 2 + 1 = 2 prplhz 3 - 1 + 2 + 1 != 6 Dirkzor 3 - 1 = 2 risk.nuke 3 - 1 != 3 [UoN]Sentinel 3 - 2 + 1 = 2 Paperscraps 3 - 1 + 2 = 4 jaybrundage 3 - 1 = 2 MeatlessTaco 3 - 1 = 2 Node 3 - 1 = 2 VisceraEyes 3 - 1 = 2 layabout 3 - 1 + 2 != 5 Four people missing a sent VP each and four people missing a received VP each. Palmar confirmed town. I think it's likely that scum would trade Palmar since they thought he was going down. Who traded Jackal58? Whilst it's likely that Palmar is town we cannot know for certain and we should be mindful of this, even if we decide to assume that he is town. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
About LSB, who Palmar wants dead, and 2 more sheeped (wtf?): He have been very vocal and active so he must be town - or what Prplhz? (joking) What bothers me about his filter is that he have constantly been pushing his plans. Plan 1 (click) was basicly the same idea that was already in the thread + the self correction mechanism. Rough layout of Plan 2 (click) Then he sees the light (click) as an explanition to why he changed from his plan 1 to plan 2. Is the same post he calls Sentinel scum for essentially supporting what was his Plan 1 (see spoiler below) + Show Spoiler + I don't like this post. In fact this plan is very bad. If I was mafia, I would love this plan and support it, because of an easy counterplan. First of all, look at the concept of stability. Sentinel proposes that stability is more important in the early game than in the late. This is very wrong. Stability is more important in the late game than in the early. In the early game, although it is bad if the mafia suddenly gets 5 extra vote power Day 2, we still have time to account for it. However if the mafia suddenly gets 5 extra vote power Day 3, it could suddenly lose the game. Day 1/2 we have the freedom to try to achieve information at the risk of loosing vote power, day 3/4+ we do not simply because there is the high chance of loss My plan accounts for that because it focuses on stabilizing the late game, after a very tumultuous night 1. Secondly, look at information. Sentinel makes the fundamental assumption that circle-jerking will provide meaningful information. It won't, but it will provide a lot of WIFORM. However vote transfers will always have lots of information because every vote transfer is known. People will need to account for their votes. Sentinel's plan achieves neither of his goals of stability. In fact, there is a very dangerous counterplan that guarantees mafia an overwhelming advantage day 3 Counterplan: Between Day 1 and Day 2, give town 1 VP, and give mafia 1 VP 1: All mafia live. N3 Mafia has 13 VP, town has 17 VP. If town gives up 2 VP.If one townies mistransfers, mafia wins 2. 1 Mafia is lynched. N3 Mafia has 10 VP, town has 20 VP. If town gives up 5 VP, mafia wins. More likely, 1-2 townies will mistransfer leading to Mafia entering with 12-14 VP, and town having 15-16 VP. This sets up lylo as the town has to be unanimous in order to unseat mafia. I believe this flaw is intentional and therefore I have a Red read on Sentinel Conclusion: I should read the thread before posting. And ##Vote: [UoN]Sentinel Why is it that Sentinels logic is scummy when LSB himself had the same logic to begin with? In his 2nd case/post on sentinel he is even calling him scummy even though he changed his mind later on - the same way LSB saw the light and changed his mind when paperscraps called him out on it. Its a double standard at its finest. + Show Spoiler + On January 29 2012 07:11 LSB wrote: We have about 3 hours to get a lynch in and I will spend this time to push forth what I think is the best lynch, [UoN]Sentinel. I can see similarities between my mafia play in previous games and his play here. One of effective plays a mafia can do is to blatantly play for the mafia side. Sometimes town doesn’t notice, and sometimes a few people do notice but they don’t do anything till it’s too late In addition, this play is very effective for this setup, even if you are exposed, you could simply transfer 2 of your votes away to your team, minimizing a loss of a sacrifice. As I have stated here, the plans that [UoN]Sentinel proposes all have effective mafia counterplans: -Circlejerk is obvious, but mafia friendly -His wait 2 nights and then free trade is disastrous, and results in either a D2 or D3 lylo. -His wait 1 night is almost as bad, and put on shaky reasoning To say that I am ‘giving him too much credit’ or ‘he can’t possibly scheme that for ahead’, would be an unfair underestimation. His posts demonstrate he is capable of thinking ahead and the ability to formulate intricate counterplans. Although he had a change of heart in the later stages, this only happened after I called him out on his plan, and it is standard play to drop any obvious mafia tactics as soon as possible. Because of his blatant attempts to mislead the town, to me he is the most obvious mafia I would not oppose a LSB lynch at this moment. | ||
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risk.nuke
Sweden2825 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
why don't we all declare that we will ignore other people in the thread? that way we don't have to read their posts, think about or analyse them! | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
On January 31 2012 02:30 VisceraEyes wrote: I'd support a Palmar lynch though - I'd support a Palmar lynch like nobodies business at this point. Based on what? Seriously, that's almost a fucking scumslip. I just want LSB dead more right now. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
##Vote: Palmar Palmar hasn't been interested in finding scum this game, he's been interested in bucking any kind of plan town has tried to come up with and tunneling me. So why wasn't he trying to get me lynched first? Why when I was his preferred lynch yesterday wouldn't he come after me first? Well, it probably has something to do with the fact that he's waiting on me to react to something that I've yet to react to. You see, I was actually hit last night, meaning one of only a few possible scenarios is going on: Palmar lied and was not hit: this is my guess. Palmar was hit by a vig and I was hit by scum: Not as likely, considering scum's gimped kp and no-flip mechanic. Palmar was hit by scum and I was hit by vig: see above. Now, we're at a crossroads. I've got a scum read on Palmar and a town read on LSB, and Palmar is pushing for an LSB lynch. This much doesn't surprise me. What surprises me is the wagon that's on LSB. Other than misunderstanding the rules early on, LSB has clearly been trying to figure out the best way for town to come out ahead with the vote-switches. I can't and won't support a lynch of LSB. But I feel like everyone should vote at once for Palmar because he's only interested in confusing town and keeping town in the dark. | ||
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