TL Mafia XLVIII - Page 79
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hyshes
Belgium428 Posts
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On December 09 2011 00:41 Toadesstern wrote: The problem is that it went incredible fast early on (the first 6 votes) and stopped there for 24 hours. Do you really think 4 people are sheeping you that hard to just vote like this without an explanation? Don't you think mafia would have hoped on that wagon sometimes yesterday no matter annuls alignment? If you're really right with your case I would not want to touch annul with a pole from here to whereever he lives. If you're wrong mafia would love to get on that wagon to see a townie dead without doing a thing (that is if you're town) and would have hoped on there not right from the beginning but surely sometime. Because I can't see one of that happening I'm saying that there's already 1 or 2 mafias who hopped on that wagon from the very beginning along with some sheeping townies. As I explained earlier, looking at things like this has no value towards the case. Mafia could bandwagon a fellow mafia to get exactly this reaction from you. I say it once again, you cannot deduce anything about anyone by looking at the reactions of someone else, you should read the person, and only that person. Read the case, agree or disagree with it. Ignore everything but exactly the content of the case. I'm more than fine with you pushing your own case, but at the end of the day, if you fail to secure enough support for your case, you should take a firm stance towards the leading two cases. If for some reason the annul lynch fails, I will myself be forced to look at alternative cases. However, at this rate I don't expect it to. | ||
Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On December 09 2011 00:46 hyshes wrote: lol @sandroba.. so palmar's way isn't working to force this lynch through our throat.. so you come in out of the blue just to tell that palmars case is great? I for sure am not falling for that one. No one is trying to get you to fall for anything. All I ask is you read the case presented. Actually, here's a trick for you: read the case twice, once assuming I'm right, and once assuming I'm wrong. And tell me which feels better. | ||
Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 09 2011 00:49 Palmar wrote: As I explained earlier, looking at things like this has no value towards the case. Mafia could bandwagon a fellow mafia to get exactly this reaction from you. I say it once again, you cannot deduce anything about anyone by looking at the reactions of someone else, you should read the person, and only that person. Read the case, agree or disagree with it. Ignore everything but exactly the content of the case. I'm more than fine with you pushing your own case, but at the end of the day, if you fail to secure enough support for your case, you should take a firm stance towards the leading two cases. If for some reason the annul lynch fails, I will myself be forced to look at alternative cases. However, at this rate I don't expect it to. First of all I kind of agree with what you said about looking into people rather that what other people think about people. I still think my wifom example is right and actually it kind of shows it. However I still think you're overconfident right now and you're makeing a bigger deal of it than it is in reality. But yeah at the end of the day I will look at what we got and decide where my vote is most useful. I hope you're doing the same. Secondly I do not think mafia would bus a mafia buddy just to make them me think what I said, but that's another box to open that's not going to help here :p | ||
Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
On December 09 2011 00:55 Toadesstern wrote: First of all I kind of agree with what you said about looking into people rather that what other people think about people. I still think my wifom example is right and actually it kind of shows it. However I still think you're overconfident right now and you're makeing a bigger deal of it than it is in reality. But yeah at the end of the day I will look at what we got and decide where my vote is most useful. I hope you're doing the same. Secondly I do not think mafia would bus a mafia buddy just to make them me think what I said, but that's another box to open that's not going to help here :p That's a fair opinion, because now you're using the correct mindset to disagree with me. If you genuinely think the case doesn't prove annul is scum, I don't have a problem with it. What I have a problem with is throwaway reasons like "this wagon is bad", because that doesn't address the situation at hand. And yes, as I said, if this falls apart I am forced to look at other options. However, remember that I am awesome and almost always right. | ||
Radfield
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Canada2720 Posts
On December 08 2011 23:37 annul wrote: now i have a final exam in 27 minutes, so im going to eat my food and get to school. but seriously palmar give it up Do you think Palmar is still scum annul? If not him then who? Who else do you think is scummy, who should be our lynch today? @Palmar, that's a much better case, and one I can get behind. Originally I felt his 'blueslip' catch made him seem townie in origin, not so sure now though. The fact that he came into the thread and asked for a recap is generally not something mafia would do. However this is very much true: Now, please recheck annul's filter ( here ) and scroll down to where he votes me. Notice how sharply his contribution rate has fallen. Not only that, but there is also NO effort at scumhunting at all. He literally hasn't accused anyone of anything since he decided I was red. There is no substance. I think the closest thing was calling Jackal a moron. His claim of being hit also struck me as genuine: On December 07 2011 14:38 annul wrote: apparently someone shot me but it was negated somehow On December 07 2011 14:41 annul wrote: i just asked and was told someone medic'd me. <3. ok so reds have 3 kp then On December 08 2011 01:23 annul wrote: wbg: "you took a hit tonight" me: "does this mean a medic saved me?" wbg: "yes" But looking at it again reminds me of how I felt taking a hit as third party in PYP1. In general when you take a hit, you DO NOT claim how(vet or medic) but simply just let the thread know you took a hit. However when you take a hit as mafia(saved by town) you immediately claim the medic save, RoL in Closed Casket did the exact same thing. Why? Because being saved by a town medic buys you townie credit. He also very quickly agreed to the idea that mafia did not hit him, but syllo did. Maybe that's because the evidence is decent, but if syllo was suspicious of me during the night and I took a hit I would not immediately accept that syllo must have shot me. ##Vote: Annul On December 08 2011 23:59 Jackal58 wrote: Hi Radfield. Could you answer a couple of questions for me? 1. Why did you omit me from your list? You were suspicious of me on day 1. Did you leave me off just to give me a warm fuzzy feeling about you? 2. You have Annul on your "maybe town" section but two posts later you don't like him. Which is it? 3. You have prplhz on your "prob scum" section but again 2 posts later you're leaning more and more town on him. Part of your analysis on him previously was his vote on Annul. So are you flip flopping Annul and Prplhz on your list? If so why such a rapid change of opinion? These appear to be contradictions to me. A wee bit of waffling. Could you help me try to understand where you are coming from? Yep, reads change. As I said, I'm warming up on prplhz, and as should have been obvious from my posting, I had conflicting thoughts on annul. That's why they were both question marks. You completely disappeared, and have basically been inactive this entire game. Other than the slight pressure I've tossed your way, you have commented on almost nothing(which unfortunately your town meta can support). In addition you were basically absent for 1-2 days, that moves you back towards null. Obviously if you continue to not comment or push any scum reads then you will move back towards red. I get that you think I'm scum, now move on and do something productive. On December 09 2011 00:25 Palmar wrote: If you present a strong enough case and can convince people to kill radfield, I don't think I would oppose killing him today. My preferable target remains annul though. Ask yourself this: If I am scum, is this the best scum game I have ever played? If I am town, is this about where I am most day 2's, maybe slightly more scattered? Which do you think more likely? This is not an argument, just a question. Not even one you have to answer right now. | ||
Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On December 09 2011 00:58 Palmar wrote: That's a fair opinion, because now you're using the correct mindset to disagree with me. If you genuinely think the case doesn't prove annul is scum, I don't have a problem with it. What I have a problem with is throwaway reasons like "this wagon is bad", because that doesn't address the situation at hand. And yes, as I said, if this falls apart I am forced to look at other options. However, remember that I am awesome and almost always right. Fair enough, I admit the sideswipe (looked this up on a translator, hope it's right lol) after what I said about your mindset. | ||
Radfield
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Canada2720 Posts
On December 09 2011 00:41 Toadesstern wrote: The problem is that it went incredible fast early on (the first 6 votes) and stopped there for 24 hours. Do you really think 4 people are sheeping you that hard to just vote like this without an explanation? Don't you think mafia would have hoped on that wagon sometimes yesterday no matter annuls alignment? If you're really right with your case I would not want to touch annul with a pole from here to whereever he lives. If you're wrong mafia would love to get on that wagon to see a townie dead without doing a thing (that is if you're town) and would have hoped on there not right from the beginning but surely sometime. Because I can't see one of that happening I'm saying that there's already 1 or 2 mafias who hopped on that wagon from the very beginning along with some sheeping townies. The fact that a case builds steam quickly and then completely grounds out makes it more likely the case is on a mafia player. What your saying is precisely true. If annul was a townie mafia would have no problem jumping all over it. However, if both are town the optimal scenario today for mafia is that we no-lynch, and both annul and Palmar are around Day 3 as well. | ||
Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On December 09 2011 01:01 Radfield wrote: Do you think Palmar is still scum annul? If not him then who? Who else do you think is scummy, who should be our lynch today? @Palmar, that's a much better case, and one I can get behind. Originally I felt his 'blueslip' catch made him seem townie in origin, not so sure now though. The fact that he came into the thread and asked for a recap is generally not something mafia would do. However this is very much true: His claim of being hit also struck me as genuine: But looking at it again reminds me of how I felt taking a hit as third party in PYP1. In general when you take a hit, you DO NOT claim how(vet or medic) but simply just let the thread know you took a hit. However when you take a hit as mafia(saved by town) you immediately claim the medic save, RoL in Closed Casket did the exact same thing. Why? Because being saved by a town medic buys you townie credit. He also very quickly agreed to the idea that mafia did not hit him, but syllo did. Maybe that's because the evidence is decent, but if syllo was suspicious of me during the night and I took a hit I would not immediately accept that syllo must have shot me. ##Vote: Annul Yep, reads change. As I said, I'm warming up on prplhz, and as should have been obvious from my posting, I had conflicting thoughts on annul. That's why they were both question marks. You completely disappeared, and have basically been inactive this entire game. Other than the slight pressure I've tossed your way, you have commented on almost nothing(which unfortunately your town meta can support). In addition you were basically absent for 1-2 days, that moves you back towards null. Obviously if you continue to not comment or push any scum reads then you will move back towards red. I get that you think I'm scum, now move on and do something productive. Ask yourself this: If I am scum, is this the best scum game I have ever played? If I am town, is this about where I am most day 2's, maybe slightly more scattered? Which do you think more likely? This is not an argument, just a question. Not even one you have to answer right now. Actually I don't know what to think of you. That's why I asked. Reading most of your early day 2 posts had me leaning towards town on you for the first time this game. And then in a single post you flip flopped your stance on the 2 people garnering the largest amount of scrutiny today. One of whom you put the cross hairs on in prplhz. So ya I really don't know what to make of you. And I am commenting and trying to discern scum. It just happens to be you I'm focused upon atm. If you like I'll put forward my own list I have of where I think various peoples loyalties lay. | ||
Radfield
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Canada2720 Posts
But from my perspective I know none of your reads, because you are focused almost entirely on me. | ||
redFF
United States3910 Posts
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Radfield
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Canada2720 Posts
On December 09 2011 01:30 redFF wrote: the slowness of the wagon on you indicates there are zero scum voting you. No the slowness of the wagon on Palmar indicates that he is no longer a particularly safe place for mafia to vote. Reasons like "he stirred up shit with v7" simply do not fly anymore, nor does "he trolled day 1". At this point you need an actual reason to be voting Palmar. In addition Palmar being the floridian gives him a large amount of townie points if you look objectively at the set-up. | ||
Radfield
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Canada2720 Posts
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
I still think Palmar is more likely scum than not, but not in a damning huge sense. I really dislike his choice of play on day 1 if he is town (I think that is obv) but I cant conclusively say it was a 100% scum style. I want to, but I can't. What I hate most right now about that situation is that if Palmar flips scum I will hate it even more if I ever backed down. Too bad thats a horrible reason to tunnel someone and ignore everything else. You have to take one for the team ego wise sometimes. about annul- I don't really think that his claim of being hit and protected or his asking prplhz to clarify a possible 'blueslip' are very good evidence. I can see a town player doing those things. He has added basicly nothing to the thread though. His filter as a whole is scummy. At this point, I feel he is a better choice to lynch then palmar. ##unvote Palmar ##vote Annul about me- Ya I have played years of forum mafia. I also historically hate and misplay blue roles. I am much more comfortable as a green. I excel as a green. Give me a gun and I just get nervous and ancy I guess. | ||
Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On December 09 2011 01:29 Radfield wrote: I'm mostly interested in who you think are scummy and why Jackal. Though I'm also interested in which part of Palmar's case on annul you like, and which parts you don't(which you alluded to). But from my perspective I know none of your reads, because you are focused almost entirely on me. Townish: prplhz Toadesstern Null: Palmar annul vaderseven Mattchew Erandorr Lanaia hyshes Zephirdd Scummish: VisceraEyes Radfield redFF Drazerk Not enough info to make a judgement of any kind: Refallen sandroba TruthBringer kingjames01 Corrupt Risen Regarding Palmars case on Annul, I agree with Palmar regarding Annul's activity level and quality of posts. I disagree with the assertion that since he claimed to be shot he must be scum. But my biggest problem with the entire case is the fact that Palmar made it. I have read his filter about a hundred times already and I keep coming to the same conclusion. I simply don't know wtf he is. What I do know about Palmar is he is able to manipulate people in a manner few if any here can do. So ya I'd much rather give Annul a day to redeem himself than jump on anything Palmar has put forth. I would much rather a lynch of one of those on my not enough info list. I don't really see any of them stepping up their contribution levels any time soon. | ||
vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
On December 09 2011 01:33 Radfield wrote In addition Palmar being the floridian gives him a large amount of townie points if you look objectively at the set-up. Well, objectivily, almost every player in the game is unknown. To say we conclude how one role, that traditionally can be with either side, is a townie role based on setup is to draw a very large conclision on extremely incomplete data. | ||
TruthBringer
United States578 Posts
On a different matter: The death of supersoft seemed odd. He seemed ambiguous as to whether he was town or mafia. Of course, mafia want to kill people who are obviously townies, so that when it comes to voting, everyone is a suspect. He also isn't a power player as far as I know. I know he didn't make that 6-player list of Radfield, Palmar, redFF, syllogism, Jackal58, and Sandroba. So why was he killed? I can think of somebody who had a motive to kill him: Lanaia. Supersoft made a sexist comment about girls always contradicting themselves. I think that comment was inappropriate but Lanaia appeared to take it in stride. But maybe she got the last laugh and killed supersoft for it. It is enough to put Lanaia on my radar anyways. | ||
Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
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Jackal58
United States4264 Posts
On December 09 2011 02:24 TruthBringer wrote: I will switch my vote to the highest vote receiver before daytime ends if doing so is necessary to cause a hanging. On a different matter: The death of supersoft seemed odd. He seemed ambiguous as to whether he was town or mafia. Of course, mafia want to kill people who are obviously townies, so that when it comes to voting, everyone is a suspect. He also isn't a power player as far as I know. I know he didn't make that 6-player list of Radfield, Palmar, redFF, syllogism, Jackal58, and Sandroba. So why was he killed? I can think of somebody who had a motive to kill him: Lanaia. Supersoft made a sexist comment about girls always contradicting themselves. I think that comment was inappropriate but Lanaia appeared to take it in stride. But maybe she got the last laugh and killed supersoft for it. It is enough to put Lanaia on my radar anyways. Add this guy to my summyish list Radfield. | ||
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