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TL Mafia XLVIII - Page 102

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Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
December 09 2011 20:45 GMT
#2021
I still call Drazerk a liar sandroba so I'm not that sure about your medic statement. What about he claims his protection like 1 second before the deadline? Mafia won't risk to wait that long because if they're too late they probably just lose their kps?

If he claimes someone bullshit (idk, like "I saved LurkerXYZ but he didn't get shot", well yeah that's not proving a thing because noone is going to shoot that guy) I want to lynch him.

If he claimes an okayish protection and fails to do so I want to lynch him (unless there's some KP missing, because that could mean a doublestack for whatever reason).

If he claims someone reasonable who is not shot that night I'm ok with it.
If he claims someone reasonable, that guy tells us he got shot and still lives I'm saying he's confirmed town.

This is a serious suggestion. If there are flaws in my argumentation please come in this thread and tell me because I don't want to screw another day. I don't care if you're calling me out on this one but I do care if I am responsible for another failure because I might be missing something horribly obvious, so think about it and tell me what you think!
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
December 09 2011 20:49 GMT
#2022
Well is Drazerk a liar? It's within the realm of possibilities, but that just comes back to my previous point. Him claiming right before the deadline also proves nothing if he is mafia.
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21170 Posts
December 09 2011 20:49 GMT
#2023
On December 10 2011 05:43 sandroba wrote:
This is a game of mafia. You don't explore ridiculous options. You just roll with what is the most plausible one and that normally is the right one. If you consider all possibilities as equally possible you will never lynch anyone nor come to any conclusions. If you fail you stop and rethink your position, not before.


This is fucking BULLSHIT Sandroba! It didn't respond to my post at all! You're basing your whole problem with Annul on a "ridiculous option". I gave you what I consider to be the most plausible scenario, why the fuck don't you comment on that rather than take the Palmar route of 'Discredit by Dismissal'? I know you're better than that fool, don't act like him.
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
December 09 2011 21:02 GMT
#2024
On December 10 2011 05:49 sandroba wrote:
Well is Drazerk a liar? It's within the realm of possibilities, but that just comes back to my previous point. Him claiming right before the deadline also proves nothing if he is mafia.


Ok I see your point because if he is mafia he knows who is going to get killed and therefore can choose someone reasonable who is not going to die. Fair enough.

What about the same thing except that he's only a null-read if he chooses a reasonable target but the guy did not get shot at all?
Well and if he choses someone reasonable, we got a KP missing and the guy who got shot claims he got shot I'm okay with him. Even if he's mafia trying to save his ass with some stupid move like this, I don't actually mind that deal that much. Free -1KP without doing a thing. OR he really is a town medic. I'm more or less ok with both.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
December 09 2011 21:08 GMT
#2025
Why are you assuming annul is town in your most likely scenario? There is no town motivation at all in anything he has done so far.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
December 09 2011 21:08 GMT
#2026
Toad.. WHY PRPLHZ ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh anyone else would have actually given us some info to work with
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21170 Posts
December 09 2011 21:09 GMT
#2027
BECAUSE IT MAKES SENSE WITH THE SETUP FUCKS SAKE DID YOU EVEN READ MY POST?!
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
December 09 2011 21:09 GMT
#2028
On December 10 2011 06:08 sandroba wrote:
Why are you assuming annul is town in your most likely scenario? There is no town motivation at all in anything he has done so far.

This is not meant to be rhetorical or condesending, have you ever seen a scum JOAT with public dayvigs?
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
kingjames01
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada1603 Posts
December 09 2011 21:11 GMT
#2029
On December 10 2011 00:39 Radfield wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 09 2011 22:15 Palmar wrote:
Rad was completely fucking wrong, to the point of me thinking he might be mafia.

Only thing that makes him not be mafia is the fact that he tried to lynch annul last night.



I tried Palmar, I really tried. At some point I need to trust other players though, and vader yelling that annul is town(when he has more information than me) is something I cannot combat.

I would say there is a 90% chance that one of you or me is dead tonight, but if we both live we can work it out tomorrow. Also, what was I wrong about, prplhz? I agree, and I had already mentioned several times I thought he looked better. Had I been around I would have likely pushed toad to pick erandorr(which I think would also have ended in a townie death).

TruthBringer, Risen, hyshes, redFF, sandroba, Zephirdd.

I think Risen looks decent. Zephirdd I was pretty sure was town earlier, not so sure anymore. redFF could very well be town(despite my exasperation vote last night) and isn't worth looking at just yet. Hyshes and Truthbringer could very well be scum, though both seem genuine.

sandroba I think is almost surely scum at this point. He has done nothing all game. That is not a style problem, it is a motivation problem. Dollars to donuts he still has very little to say when he returns to the thread(with excuse in hand).

Kingjames is scummy by virtue of playing a different game than the rest of us. Building cases that are obviously not going to get followed up on, refusing to have a strong opinion on any players currently up for lynch etc.

If annul flips scum then Jackal and VE need to be looked at long and hard. Neither have been willing to vote annul all game.

If annul is town then we do actually have another medic. With a either a likely jailkeeper in the mix, or if annul/vader have a medic ability, Drazerk's claim becomes complete bs. No way we have a whole bunch of protective roles with only 2 scum KP.



I won't be on at all today until 1 hour before the daypost.

No one protect annul. There is a 0% chance of him dying tonight even if he is town, because it would help us immensely on day 3.

Watcher needs to be on vader tonight. Since he can use an ability tonight he is surely going to be targeted with a roleblock or KP.

If sandro is scum and mafia have a framer, they will likely target him tonight to have him flip green. Him or annul. If you are investigating, search someone else.

Medics on Palmar, myself, vader or toad. If you want to pick your own target that is fine too though, because we need a save to keep us running.

I would say do NOT protect drazerk. Either mafia kill him and clear things up for us, or they leave him alive to keep protecting. Both situations are a win for town.


I agree with the plans outlined in this post. I don't want to let this post go by without being discussed.

Don't protect annul. If mafia kill him tonight, then we will have gained a lot of information that they won't want us to have.

I don't think we should give the medics a list of players to protect though. Let them decide for themselves.

Finally, I'm going to respond to this point:
On December 10 2011 00:39 Radfield wrote:
Kingjames is scummy by virtue of playing a different game than the rest of us. Building cases that are obviously not going to get followed up on, refusing to have a strong opinion on any players currently up for lynch etc.


This is NOT true. I've been vocal and taken a stand AGAINST every potential lynch candidate since I DID NOT BELIEVE THAT THEY WERE MAFIA. Why should I waste my vote on a player who I don't think is guilty? Again I'm going to say:

Mafia NEED an excuse to vote.

STOP making it easy for them to lynch innocents. If a Townie is 1 or 2 votes short of being lynched, then the mafia will have a very hard time deciding whether they should be the ones to cast them or hope that we will supply those votes. Force them into making "analyses" and taking big risks. That's how we'll win.

Also, since I am not so heavily invested in making sure that we don't "waste a lynch" I am free to sift through the voting patterns to actually scum hunt. Even if my suspects are "obviously not going to get followed up on", I'll at least have planted a seed in the minds of the Town for future lynch votes and actions.

Who would sup with the mighty, must walk the path of daggers.
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
December 09 2011 21:12 GMT
#2030
because I felt we did not have a majority for Drazerk and Erandorr who were my primary targets at that point in time. At least I did not want to act selfish and just shoot who I thought was scummy without looking for recent accusations.
Therefore I looked up rads suspicious list and picked someone we both think is suspicious
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
sandroba
Profile Joined April 2006
Canada4998 Posts
December 09 2011 21:13 GMT
#2031
On December 10 2011 06:09 VisceraEyes wrote:
BECAUSE IT MAKES SENSE WITH THE SETUP FUCKS SAKE DID YOU EVEN READ MY POST?!

I read you post. It starts with "let's assume annul is town" blablabla. Yeah, your scenario makes sense if you base it on that assumption, but the assumption itself is ridiculous.
kingjames01
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada1603 Posts
December 09 2011 21:16 GMT
#2032
On December 10 2011 06:12 Toadesstern wrote:
because I felt we did not have a majority for Drazerk and Erandorr who were my primary targets at that point in time. At least I did not want to act selfish and just shoot who I thought was scummy without looking for recent accusations.
Therefore I looked up rads suspicious list and picked someone we both think is suspicious


But you implied that the majority of the town wanted prplhz to be shot. Two players is not the majority.
Who would sup with the mighty, must walk the path of daggers.
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21170 Posts
December 09 2011 21:24 GMT
#2033
Why is it ridiculous again? Can you explain how anything Annul has done can ONLY have come from a scum-mindset? No? Then shut the fuck up about it. You're just dismissing what I'm saying.

And with that, I'm fucking done with Sandroba. He's clearly just sheeping whatever the fuck Palmafia is saying, so there's obviously no talking to him.

Add Sandroba to my list of people I'm looking into before daybreak.
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
December 09 2011 21:25 GMT
#2034
On December 10 2011 06:16 kingjames01 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2011 06:12 Toadesstern wrote:
because I felt we did not have a majority for Drazerk and Erandorr who were my primary targets at that point in time. At least I did not want to act selfish and just shoot who I thought was scummy without looking for recent accusations.
Therefore I looked up rads suspicious list and picked someone we both think is suspicious


But you implied that the majority of the town wanted prplhz to be shot. Two players is not the majority.


I never said such a thing. I said I would have loved to shoot Drazerk or Erandorr but did not. I looked up a couple of posts.
I thought rad's list is the best thing to go by and just pick someone we both think is scummy. That's the consensus I've mentioned. I just looked in his list. Saw we got a bunch of people we think are scummy in common and picked the guy who had neither a '?' in my head nor in his list. That's the deal.
Sadly rad was not arround I would have loved talking about this and waited like 5 minutes but that's it.

If someone would have given me a quick summary of EVERYTHING in this thread so far, yeah I might have been able to pick someone more liked by the majority (like = dislike in this case) but I just searched for those posts knew where to find them and rad's list was easily to find in his filter.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
Drazerk
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom31255 Posts
December 09 2011 21:28 GMT
#2035
Toad you should never of chosen anyone to be shot. Any choice would of been a bad one.
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
December 09 2011 21:30 GMT
#2036
On December 10 2011 06:28 Drazerk wrote:
Toad you should never of chosen anyone to be shot. Any choice would of been a bad one.

what should I have done instead? Tell him to not use a power at all? Clearly people would have thought that's weird as well.
Mason me? Yeah I could have done that but sadly there's nothing in the thread that confirms that so I think shooting a mafia was the only option I had.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
December 09 2011 21:34 GMT
#2037
On December 10 2011 06:12 Toadesstern wrote:
because I felt we did not have a majority for Drazerk and Erandorr who were my primary targets at that point in time. At least I did not want to act selfish and just shoot who I thought was scummy without looking for recent accusations.
Therefore I looked up rads suspicious list and picked someone we both think is suspicious


I was saying that rhetorically to vent frustration
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
kingjames01
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada1603 Posts
December 09 2011 21:37 GMT
#2038
On December 09 2011 10:19 Toadesstern wrote:
Ok to make this clear. I would LOVE to shoot drazerk or erandorr. To be honest mostly drazerk but I don't think that will prove a thing because the majority is not thinking so as well.
I'd say prplhz is the biggest consensus (looked that word up in a dictionary, sounds fancy). I think he's scummy as hell and a lot of people think so as well.

SOOO, shot that guy right in his face or die yourself.


Here you have a "biggest consensus".

On December 09 2011 21:44 Toadesstern wrote:
Third issue, about who I got to shoot. As mentioned I would have LOVED to shoot drazerk because I still don't believe a word he says and I'm calling his claim bullshit. However I looked up what other people I think are townie think about him (rad for example) and frankly I was the only one who wanted to see him dead. So I figured I need someone else. Having rads "probably scum" list already opened I checked who rad thinks might be suspicious and yes, the guy that is on both our lists without a '?' was prp so I shot him. That's the consensus I was talking about.


Here you just happend to have "rads 'probably scum' list already opened". So your "biggest consensus" turned out to be one other person.

On December 10 2011 06:25 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2011 06:16 kingjames01 wrote:
On December 10 2011 06:12 Toadesstern wrote:
because I felt we did not have a majority for Drazerk and Erandorr who were my primary targets at that point in time. At least I did not want to act selfish and just shoot who I thought was scummy without looking for recent accusations.
Therefore I looked up rads suspicious list and picked someone we both think is suspicious


But you implied that the majority of the town wanted prplhz to be shot. Two players is not the majority.


I never said such a thing. I said I would have loved to shoot Drazerk or Erandorr but did not. I looked up a couple of posts.
I thought rad's list is the best thing to go by and just pick someone we both think is scummy. That's the consensus I've mentioned. I just looked in his list. Saw we got a bunch of people we think are scummy in common and picked the guy who had neither a '?' in my head nor in his list. That's the deal.
Sadly rad was not arround I would have loved talking about this and waited like 5 minutes but that's it.


Here you "looked up a couple of posts" and from these posts decided that "rad's list" was the "best thing to go by".

None of this makes any sense. What it seems like is that you chose a Townie and are now passing the blame off to someone else.
Who would sup with the mighty, must walk the path of daggers.
Drazerk
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom31255 Posts
December 09 2011 21:40 GMT
#2039
On December 10 2011 06:30 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2011 06:28 Drazerk wrote:
Toad you should never of chosen anyone to be shot. Any choice would of been a bad one.

what should I have done instead? Tell him to not use a power at all? Clearly people would have thought that's weird as well.
Mason me? Yeah I could have done that but sadly there's nothing in the thread that confirms that so I think shooting a mafia was the only option I had.


Personally I would of preferred you not choose from rad's list and shot me it makes a lot more sense than prplhz
Toadesstern
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Germany16350 Posts
December 09 2011 21:41 GMT
#2040
Are you missunderstanding me on purpose?
I was looking up rads posts, V7 posts and hyshes posts. I wasn't able to find something useful in V7 and hyshes posts that's why I just went with only rads list.
Yes after I found rads list I was still looking for something from V7, therefore rads list was already opened in another tab because I already found it.
After 5 minutes of searching I just went with the list which got a couple of names, got my list and out of all those names I picked the best consensus.
<Elem> >toad in charge of judging lewdness <Elem> how bad can it be <Elem> also wew, that is actually p lewd.
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