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On December 04 2011 15:22 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:11 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi, this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer. Well you could say blazinghand is coming off aggressive. However honestly i think its just scum hunting. You should be aggressive and state your opinion if you think someone is scum. And remember just because someones new doesn't mean there town. You could be new and still draw mafia. I honestly am not sure how to read BKEXE hes obviously new. But is he a newbie townie or a newbie mafia. On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? This was his first post and while there was alot of discussion going on in the thread he just posts this. Not even commentating on what was going on in the thread. Then talking about what we need to do as a group. When we already were talking about policy lynches. I would not straight out call him scum at this point. I just dont see him as being pro-town I didn't think Blazing was trying to do anything but scum hunt. However, I don't fully agree with his methods. Creating a contentious atmosphere in a game full of newbies who are likely intimidated is probably not the best way to get the town working together. Did it get me to post more, sure. Will it everyone else? I'm not totally convinced. I'm also not sure browbeating everyone into posting is going to help us figure out the scum lurkers over the town lurkers.
I don't think that asking people to post is too much to ask. I see voting them (given the more than 40 hours till deadline) as an easy way to prod them into saying something. It's not as if the vote can't be removed once they post.
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On December 04 2011 15:31 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:22 Blazinghand wrote:On December 04 2011 15:18 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 15:05 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi, this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer. What's your opinion on BKEXE right now, considering his third post? While I agree that any content (even agreement) is good content at this point, do you consider his posts contributory? I agree with what you said that he needs to add some more content, and I fundamentally disagree with his saying that we shouldn't lynch lurkers because they might be new. If they're not contributing, as long as we don't have a very solid lead, then I'm all for getting rid of lurkers. However, we need to be careful about what we define lurking as. If it's just they never post, that's easy. If it's they post, but only a couple lines then that's more of an decision to be made through analysis. I'd rather see a few posts a day that are failry well thought out and longer than a bunch of one liners that don't mean anything. Frankly, no read on anyone at the moment, but I'd like to see more from him. So, EY, you gonna respond to my post at any point? I still want to know why you called me scum. In case you lost it: On December 04 2011 15:02 Blazinghand wrote:First of, EY, thank you for responding to my post! I'm glad that you've taken some time out of your busy LoL-playing schedule to read the thread. It's important that we get everyone talking so we can develop information and get an idea of who's who. I think you make a lot of good points. I take issue with your statements here, though: On December 04 2011 14:55 ey215 wrote:
Fuck, I can say you've hardly posted anything but baseless accusations therefore you're scum just trying to get the town fighting among themselves. Not to mention you're trying to get a bandwagon started on someone for either not posting because they're asleep or because of some assumed fluff.
I'm fine with a lurker today, but I'm not deciding on which until closer to the deadline.
My accusations are not baseless. In fact, I never even said you were scum-- I just noted you're a lurker, and you need to post. In fact, given that I addressed 4 people, it's literally impossible that I think they're all scum. But making a single vague post is not acceptable. If you'd accurately read my posts, you'd note that I unvote people who are asleep, and I'm not trying to bandwagon-- i'm trying to get people talking so they can show their true colors. Given how minor my analysis of you was, this is a very strong OMGUS (omg, no u suck) response. I'm doing my best to help town. If you disagree with my methods, we can have a fruitful discussion. Am I the one throwing out baseless accusations, or is that you? But you must admit, I've gotten lurkers (including you) to stop lurking. Is that not helpful? You took that part out of context. My full post: Show nested quote +Posting in between games of LoL.
So, we're asked our opinion on what we think about LaL and lynching lurkers, I share mine and then get called out for doing nothing but posting fluff? Would you rather we discuss the weather or just /random a lynch for the first day? The reason I talked about common sense is the last game youngmini got a lot of support for being lynched (Palmar mayor killed him) for essentially a misstatement.
Yes, that kind of stuff does need to be pointed out. There's no reason to lynch someone for a misstatement. It is not unwritten or does not go without saying unless we actually agree to it.
As for you're statements about lynching all lurkers unless someone gives you a "DAMN GOOD REASON', well having a scumread is one. Am I good with lynching a lurker today, sure but let's not go talking about how you've got a good scum read on anyone that's posted once.
Fuck, I can say you've hardly posted anything but baseless accusations therefore you're scum just trying to get the town fighting among themselves. Not to mention you're trying to get a bandwagon started on someone for either not posting because they're asleep or because of some assumed fluff.
I'm fine with a lurker today, but I'm not deciding on which until closer to the deadline.
I was obviously continuing a thought on how calling out me for posting what you've defined as fluff when it was an opinion on the subject matter being discussed, and one that was at least mildly thought out makes it just as easy for someone to call you out for baseless accusations. Yes, to some extent that's all we have at the moment, but by god if no one wants my opinion don't ask. I was not calling you scum, but pointing out a hypothetical next time I label it more clearly so you can understand.
Something I should have said earlier: I think both you and Blazinghand are overreacting to a point he made that may differ in interpretation. What you see as lynching all lurkers EXCEPT for a "damn good reason", I think all 3 of us can agree that a good scumread, especially one supported by a case, is a fairly good reason. Lurkers are obviously second priority to obvscum.
I don't think your post is fluff, I just think you and BH are saying the same thing in different ways. I'll try and summarize our two major points here:
1) Lynch all Liars as confirmed as lying (and not misstatements) by the thread.
2) Lynch all Lurkers, but secondary to lynching scum as supported by existing cases and post history.
Would that be fair?
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EBWOP: Lynch All Lurkers should obviously also depend on post analysis to some extent as ey215 mentioned in an earlier post
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On December 04 2011 15:39 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:24 Blazinghand wrote:On December 04 2011 15:22 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 15:11 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi, this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer. Well you could say blazinghand is coming off aggressive. However honestly i think its just scum hunting. You should be aggressive and state your opinion if you think someone is scum. And remember just because someones new doesn't mean there town. You could be new and still draw mafia. I honestly am not sure how to read BKEXE hes obviously new. But is he a newbie townie or a newbie mafia. On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? This was his first post and while there was alot of discussion going on in the thread he just posts this. Not even commentating on what was going on in the thread. Then talking about what we need to do as a group. When we already were talking about policy lynches. I would not straight out call him scum at this point. I just dont see him as being pro-town I didn't think Blazing was trying to do anything but scum hunt. However, I don't fully agree with his methods. Creating a contentious atmosphere in a game full of newbies who are likely intimidated is probably not the best way to get the town working together. Did it get me to post more, sure. Will it everyone else? I'm not totally convinced. I'm also not sure browbeating everyone into posting is going to help us figure out the scum lurkers over the town lurkers. You realize that if both scum and town lurkers don't have to post at all, there's no way to differentiate them at all? Even if I have to "browbeat" them into talking, it's better to have browbeaten info than no info. We don't have much to work off right now, so I'd rather produce some information. So far, 100% of lurkers who aren't asleep that i've targetted have come forward. I just don't want some random intimidated townie getting lynched because you deemed a paragraph or two on the question on hand isn't enough and decided to throw out a ##vote on them. I just don't think an combative atmosphere this early on is the way to go, and I think you're creating one.
I don't think BH is saying this. Right now we have nothing on lurkers. If they throw out one-liners, as you said, it's a red flag. If they throw out well reasoned responses, that's not. It seems like you're assuming the town will follow BH's lead if he makes a judgment call, and that's not necessarily true. It's still early in the game, and the votes are only meant to provoke discussion right now. The threat of being lynched is far more effective than a simple "Hey, X, come post!"
Neither you nor BH are helping the atmosphere of the town with what you're saying. I think both of you should step back for a second and think about how we're all trying to work for the good of the town here.
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On December 04 2011 15:48 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:25 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 15:22 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 15:11 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi, this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer. Well you could say blazinghand is coming off aggressive. However honestly i think its just scum hunting. You should be aggressive and state your opinion if you think someone is scum. And remember just because someones new doesn't mean there town. You could be new and still draw mafia. I honestly am not sure how to read BKEXE hes obviously new. But is he a newbie townie or a newbie mafia. On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? This was his first post and while there was alot of discussion going on in the thread he just posts this. Not even commentating on what was going on in the thread. Then talking about what we need to do as a group. When we already were talking about policy lynches. I would not straight out call him scum at this point. I just dont see him as being pro-town I didn't think Blazing was trying to do anything but scum hunt. However, I don't fully agree with his methods. Creating a contentious atmosphere in a game full of newbies who are likely intimidated is probably not the best way to get the town working together. Did it get me to post more, sure. Will it everyone else? I'm not totally convinced. I'm also not sure browbeating everyone into posting is going to help us figure out the scum lurkers over the town lurkers. I don't think that asking people to post is too much to ask. I see voting them (given the more than 40 hours till deadline) as an easy way to prod them into saying something. It's not as if the vote can't be removed once they post. I just think it's dangerous and is how bandwagons get started, of course at some point someone is going to have to start voting on someone I just don't want another new player coming in and seeing ##votewhoever a couple of times while trying to catch up and think that obviously that must be the person to vote for. As long as the rest of us are careful to not let the bandwagon get going, then I'm fine with whatever. It is just really easy to let one person make the decisions through sure force of personality or constantly posting ( I would think in a newbie game especially) by getting a ball rolling. As long as we're vigilant and step i and say, "Hold the fuck on that doesn't make sense" then I'm fine with whoever doing whatever they think will help the town win. Just like I think I've been doing the last few posts with Blaze.
I completely agree here. We have voices of moderation in this town, obviously - I don't think it'll be easy to get incorrect bandwagons started given that we have some very vocal posters that are not necessarily willing to lynch on a whim (you being one of them).
While one person can make decisions through personality (Palmar in 46 springs to mind), I feel like we've got a pretty vocal group that is able to balance each other out leading the town right now.
If someone new steps in and votes blindly, I don't think it's out of line to ask them to justify their vote - the grou pthat we have right now will probably do a good job of discouraging sheeping, from what I've seen so far.
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On December 04 2011 15:56 xsksc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:52 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 15:48 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 15:25 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 15:22 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 15:11 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 14:20 Blazinghand wrote:I want to hear what you have to say. Don't flop around like you did in your first post. Be a man. Do the right thing. On December 04 2011 14:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey Blazinghand sorry if I came around to be a little shady.
I was just trying to feed into the conversation, about the voting. How do we want to plan the lynching with the time zone difference? I feel like this will be a major roadblock as it will be 12 AM for our friends in the UK.
As for my earlier comment I just wanted to say hi. Did not mean to get off on the wrong foot Hi, this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer. Well you could say blazinghand is coming off aggressive. However honestly i think its just scum hunting. You should be aggressive and state your opinion if you think someone is scum. And remember just because someones new doesn't mean there town. You could be new and still draw mafia. I honestly am not sure how to read BKEXE hes obviously new. But is he a newbie townie or a newbie mafia. On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? This was his first post and while there was alot of discussion going on in the thread he just posts this. Not even commentating on what was going on in the thread. Then talking about what we need to do as a group. When we already were talking about policy lynches. I would not straight out call him scum at this point. I just dont see him as being pro-town I didn't think Blazing was trying to do anything but scum hunt. However, I don't fully agree with his methods. Creating a contentious atmosphere in a game full of newbies who are likely intimidated is probably not the best way to get the town working together. Did it get me to post more, sure. Will it everyone else? I'm not totally convinced. I'm also not sure browbeating everyone into posting is going to help us figure out the scum lurkers over the town lurkers. I don't think that asking people to post is too much to ask. I see voting them (given the more than 40 hours till deadline) as an easy way to prod them into saying something. It's not as if the vote can't be removed once they post. I just think it's dangerous and is how bandwagons get started, of course at some point someone is going to have to start voting on someone I just don't want another new player coming in and seeing ##votewhoever a couple of times while trying to catch up and think that obviously that must be the person to vote for. As long as the rest of us are careful to not let the bandwagon get going, then I'm fine with whatever. It is just really easy to let one person make the decisions through sure force of personality or constantly posting ( I would think in a newbie game especially) by getting a ball rolling. As long as we're vigilant and step i and say, "Hold the fuck on that doesn't make sense" then I'm fine with whoever doing whatever they think will help the town win. Just like I think I've been doing the last few posts with Blaze. I completely agree here. We have voices of moderation in this town, obviously - I don't think it'll be easy to get incorrect bandwagons started given that we have some very vocal posters that are not necessarily willing to lynch on a whim (you being one of them). While one person can make decisions through personality (Palmar in 46 springs to mind), I feel like we've got a pretty vocal group that is able to balance each other out leading the town right now. If someone new steps in and votes blindly, I don't think it's out of line to ask them to justify their vote - the grou pthat we have right now will probably do a good job of discouraging sheeping, from what I've seen so far. Agreed on the above. However I want you guys to be very careful not to be too trusting. Do not assume the mafia will just be the lurkers posting 1 liners. It wouldn't suprise me if we have a scum member in this "voices of moderation" group, as you call it. All I'm saying is don't trust anyone, and use your heads.
Oh, absolutely. While I think that anyone who is willing to stick their neck out and be vocal about a given player is less likely to be mafia (as mafia has no interest in contributing to constructive discussion), I definitely agree that leading the town down an incorrect path is certainly a viable strategy and one that the mafia may be employing here.
That said, there's nothing in the posts from any of our active posters so far that screams "scum" to me - and so far our policy decisions are furthering a town agenda, IMO.
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Ugh, just woke back up. Hi to all the posters who have popped in!
On December 04 2011 23:23 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 15:59 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 15:56 xsksc wrote:On December 04 2011 15:52 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 15:48 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 15:25 Velinath wrote:On December 04 2011 15:22 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 15:11 jaybrundage wrote:On December 04 2011 15:01 ey215 wrote:On December 04 2011 14:42 Velinath wrote:
[quote]
[quote]
Hi,
this also feels noncontributive. I feel like what Blazinghand was looking for was more of an opinion on one of the matters we've been discussing in the thread. If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear what you have to say about the Lynch All Lurkers policy discussed a couple of pages back. Adding questions but no answers isn't really posting content, at least not in my eyes. I'd just like to point out that Blazinghand is calling out people for giving their opinions. I guess if it's not groundbreaking then it's fluff. While I agree with you that just posting a question isn't enough, giving an opinion that agrees with others shouldn't be considered not participating. If we're going to win, the town needs to work together and discouraging newer townies to post by slapping them around when they do is probably not the right answer. Well you could say blazinghand is coming off aggressive. However honestly i think its just scum hunting. You should be aggressive and state your opinion if you think someone is scum. And remember just because someones new doesn't mean there town. You could be new and still draw mafia. I honestly am not sure how to read BKEXE hes obviously new. But is he a newbie townie or a newbie mafia. On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think? This was his first post and while there was alot of discussion going on in the thread he just posts this. Not even commentating on what was going on in the thread. Then talking about what we need to do as a group. When we already were talking about policy lynches. I would not straight out call him scum at this point. I just dont see him as being pro-town I didn't think Blazing was trying to do anything but scum hunt. However, I don't fully agree with his methods. Creating a contentious atmosphere in a game full of newbies who are likely intimidated is probably not the best way to get the town working together. Did it get me to post more, sure. Will it everyone else? I'm not totally convinced. I'm also not sure browbeating everyone into posting is going to help us figure out the scum lurkers over the town lurkers. I don't think that asking people to post is too much to ask. I see voting them (given the more than 40 hours till deadline) as an easy way to prod them into saying something. It's not as if the vote can't be removed once they post. I just think it's dangerous and is how bandwagons get started, of course at some point someone is going to have to start voting on someone I just don't want another new player coming in and seeing ##votewhoever a couple of times while trying to catch up and think that obviously that must be the person to vote for. As long as the rest of us are careful to not let the bandwagon get going, then I'm fine with whatever. It is just really easy to let one person make the decisions through sure force of personality or constantly posting ( I would think in a newbie game especially) by getting a ball rolling. As long as we're vigilant and step i and say, "Hold the fuck on that doesn't make sense" then I'm fine with whoever doing whatever they think will help the town win. Just like I think I've been doing the last few posts with Blaze. I completely agree here. We have voices of moderation in this town, obviously - I don't think it'll be easy to get incorrect bandwagons started given that we have some very vocal posters that are not necessarily willing to lynch on a whim (you being one of them). While one person can make decisions through personality (Palmar in 46 springs to mind), I feel like we've got a pretty vocal group that is able to balance each other out leading the town right now. If someone new steps in and votes blindly, I don't think it's out of line to ask them to justify their vote - the grou pthat we have right now will probably do a good job of discouraging sheeping, from what I've seen so far. Agreed on the above. However I want you guys to be very careful not to be too trusting. Do not assume the mafia will just be the lurkers posting 1 liners. It wouldn't suprise me if we have a scum member in this "voices of moderation" group, as you call it. All I'm saying is don't trust anyone, and use your heads. Oh, absolutely. While I think that anyone who is willing to stick their neck out and be vocal about a given player is less likely to be mafia (as mafia has no interest in contributing to constructive discussion), I definitely agree that leading the town down an incorrect path is certainly a viable strategy and one that the mafia may be employing here. That said, there's nothing in the posts from any of our active posters so far that screams "scum" to me - and so far our policy decisions are furthering a town agenda, IMO. You are the number one poster quantitywise in this thread, you are also one of those who have voted early. You are also perhaps the one I consider to be most likely (as of now) to get a bandwagon started on someone (either as number one voter or two). Based on that, my question is: Are you trying to give yourself an alibi with the statement above?
No. I feel like you missed my intent with wording here. I was referring to the people that would defend other people against bandwagons (hence the discussion about voices of moderation that you quoted). I guess it's kinda WIFOM, but I feel like it's less likely for scum to vocally defend other scum when a bandwagon gets started, since they would tend to be under scrutiny if the lynch goes through.
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Whee, time to copy in my reads. Keeping a spreadsheet is going to be quite helpful, I think.
Blazinghand: Feels very Townie to me. Posting reasonable content and post analysis already. Willing to take actions on his stances. Softclaimed Vanilla Townie http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=8#152 Bringing lurkers out, which can ONLY help town. I approve. Call it 90% town. Also, his discussion with ey215 looked good, and convinced me further of his townieness.
BroodKingEXE: Empty post. Worries me.Feels scummy but could be a noob. Amend: Six posts that don't sit right with me, but again, could be new player.
xkskc: Leaning town for now. Started our policy discussion. Discussion is good. While he disagrees with BH's methods, I clearly feel like he's playing a townie game right now. Different methodolgy, same goal. To note, he pointed out that there may be mafia in the group leadership., which should be something to keep in mind. Question is whether it's sowing suspicion or genuine pro-town, and I haven't figured that out yet.
xtfftc: Null read. He argued against LAL and LALurkers, and I don't wanna go with that. Let's look again once he posts again. (Amend: Looked through his filter to update this post, and I really liked his post here. Still a null read, but this feels positive to me.)
ey215: Pointed out some good things. He sees Blazinghand's methods as creating tension within the town, and that's fine - he's entitled to opinion. Like xkskc, he disagrees with methods but seems to be working towards the same goal. Their discussion, while heated, really brought out to me that they both seem very town-aligned, and willing to take positions and defend them.
EB: Makes good points. At this point I'm leaning town, simply because he's pro-discussion this early. That said I'd love to see more posts here.
Tunkeg: Posted his reads, and is encouraging discussion. I think this is a good thing, and might peg him as one of the influential voices in the town soon. Largely a null read, but I'm starting to lean town.
BByte: I'm not totally impressed yet. One post about breadcrumbs (which is more about the game in general than a content post) and one post about a couple of the players. That post was good, and I agree that we shouldn't be intimidated by one person, but I'd like to see more.
jaybrundage: Neutral for now, but a lack of content disturbs me. We've still got like 30 hours though.
Adam4167: Two posts, neither of which hugely impress me. I liked how he went through and stated a clear opinion on BH's play. While I disagree with his opinion, I think that the way he put things is pro-town in that post. I'd love to see more content here, but so far looks pretty good.
Hassybaby: Disagrees with early targets, and I can see why. I think he is overly defensive towards Tunkeg - not an OMGUS vote, but definitely that kind of idea. Not sure what to think, but this early just a null read.
Grackaroni: Posted reads, but before that there's a bunch of policy posts. Not that I haven't made a ton of policy posts too, but I'll wait for more content. Null read.
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EBWOP: haha, I misread that post entirely (the first one I linked). Disregard anything I said about a softclaim because there isn't one there.
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Looks like it's working to me. Thanks for putting it together.
I'll be back later today - going out with some friends - and will post some more impressions then.
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And I'm back.
I was rereading through Hassybaby's filter, and I'm going to revise my opinion of him a little. I think while he did react too defensively to the very light pressure that was being applied, he still reacted in a basically townie manner.
The one thing that struck me over the last few pages is that BKEXE's posting style changed a lot between last night's posts and his post today. I don't know if it's just a time-of-day thing or what, but when a post tone changes that much, it tells me either A) it's done with coach input or B) it's a collaborative post from the mafia.
Consider this:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think?
+ Show Spoiler +On December 05 2011 07:06 BroodKingEXE wrote:
For all of you who are getting a bad read on me, I want to confirm that I am a newbie. While I respect that Blazinghand has been pusing to prevent lurkers my reponses were obivouisly to defend myself. I feel that it is still a strategy that will work to get reads on the mafia, even if it has put me in the red. In the early stages of the game I feel that there is no way I would be able to get any proper reads as a newbie, but right now I am leaning to:
Mafia:
Adam - his critism of Blazinghand's style comes right after a compliment showing that he is defininetly trying to kiss up to him.
Hassy - he also critized Blazinghand's style in that he accuses him of targeting people early. His votes were clearly for getting people to talk, not at all to decide who to lynch.
Townies:
Blazing - has been contributing to the discussion and trying to get others to talk.
Velinath - I am kind of borderline on this as he has been contributing, but he seems to be following Blazing as opposed to creating comments of his own.
Turnkeg - I think he has been pressuring a little, trying to get a read,but I will go for townie.
Grackoroni - I will put him here because in one of his comments he left his own name on Turneg's read list and did not comment. I feel like this would have been something that he could have used to push his case.
As for the rest I feel like I have not got enough infomation. I am going to be off for the next few hours as I have a project due, but I will be sure to take a break to put my vote in.
It feels way different to me, anyway. For now it seems suspicious to me - I'll wait to hear more before I put my vote in, but for now it feels like scum.
On Adam4167:
So far, two posts. I can see why everyone's suspicious of him - he made a mistake in attacking the most vocal (and, in some people's minds, most pro-town) player. That said, I feel like it could be just defensiveness to BH's style. I'll have to wait for more posts, but for now he's just made my watchlist.
On xkskc:
I noted some people have been thinking that he might be scum. I think he needs to post his reads. Until then we don't have anything to go on, and that's not a good situation.
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Hassy, use two pound signs to vote.
##Vote: BroodKingEXE - for reasons posted in my last post. The inconsistent post style doesn't sit right with me.
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On December 05 2011 09:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Venilath
You have good reason to be suspicious of me changing my tone, but BH's style forced me to be hastily defensive in the first few posts I made. These posts put me in even more trouble, so I am focusing more on well thought out posts. You can read in to the first posts all you want, but they are defininetly not an accurate representation of the mob. If I were really in the mob, even as a newbie, do you think I would really be that hasty in my posts not bothering to think of the repurcussions?
Besides the obvious WIFOM, here's my question: if you realize that well thought out posts are a good way to clear your name and help the town, why not give well thought out posts early? You're right that your posts felt rushed and reactive, but why did you post like that in the first place?
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On December 05 2011 10:03 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 09:44 Velinath wrote:On December 05 2011 09:36 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Venilath
You have good reason to be suspicious of me changing my tone, but BH's style forced me to be hastily defensive in the first few posts I made. These posts put me in even more trouble, so I am focusing more on well thought out posts. You can read in to the first posts all you want, but they are defininetly not an accurate representation of the mob. If I were really in the mob, even as a newbie, do you think I would really be that hasty in my posts not bothering to think of the repurcussions? Besides the obvious WIFOM, here's my question: if you realize that well thought out posts are a good way to clear your name and help the town, why not give well thought out posts early? You're right that your posts felt rushed and reactive, but why did you post like that in the first place? You mention that you are a newbie, yet you have read up on other games before this one. Well not everyone does that, so this is truly the first game I have experienced. After my posts I took a step back and looked at them and I saw that they were terribly thought out. In the heat of the moment a newbie would obviously falter.
Thanks for the post there. I still think it's WIFOM, but now there's something else that strikes me as strange. You haven't provided any reasoning at all for your vote, unless you're relying on your analysis post earlier. If you could go over why you voted for Adam (assuming there's more to it than just bandwagoning), please do.
Adam's definitely my second choice for scum, but you haven't given me enough reason to stop suspecting you yet. My vote stands as listed.
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On December 05 2011 10:21 BroodKingEXE wrote:Hassy if you need evidence read this: Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 01:38 Adam4167 wrote:On December 04 2011 21:39 Tunkeg wrote:
So are you trying to establish yourself as a boring townie by not posting anything or what?
Adam, a couple of questions for you:
What is your thoughts on Blazinghand's aggressiveness? How do you perceive him thus far? Is his play pro-town or anti-town?
Any thoughts on xsksc's play? Is he a key player in this game? If he is scum, what effect will that have on the game? If my lack of posting thus far has crowned me as a boring townie, I guess it’s a mantle I’ll wear; I had a Sunday off and decided to go out drinking. My thoughts on Blazinghands aggression so far is that I feel he is trying to generate discussion. However, I question whether he is trying too hard to establish himself as a townie by his badgering. This, coupled with his apparent buddy-buddy relationship with Velinath has me keeping a close eye on both of them as I find it strange that they are apparently “BFF’s” after only 12 hours of play. So to directly answer your question, Tunkeg, I find his behaviour suspicious and erring on the side of Anti-town. This is the main reason I want to vote for adam, when I first read this I realized that BH had only made four votes. The evidence he includes to back his statement is wrong, so that means that the statement although long as hastily thought out, not paying attention to what is going on, and therefore contributing as a towns member 5 separate votes in 12 hours is akin to spam and is just leading the town around in circles, rather than focusing on any one target. Xsksc is someone I’m more familiar with after close examination of the Newbie Mini Mafia thread. So far he has begun discussion, scolded Blazinghands reckless aggression and defended himself well when called out. Is he a key player in the game? Not yet, but neither is anyone else. This is also a bogus statement. He says that there are no major players in the game when he points out above that BH voted for half the players. To me that is a major move in itself. If he had read the forum at all he would have seen that BH has gotten the majority of players, including myself, to speak Is he pro-town? All signs are pointing towards yes. If he turns out to be mafia, id hope to think we can still catch him out and hang him even with his greater mafia experience over us. On December 04 2011 16:03 Blazinghand wrote:
Adam has correctly noted that there are no no-lynches in his sole post. Helpful, but not enormously so. Also, he's certainly awake since he's Australian. I'm gonna slap my vote on him and wait for him to contribute some more. Maybe he's eating or out or something, but hopefully this will get more than 1 post
Adam, I'd like to see you contributing to the discussion more. I'm heading to bed relatively soon, but when I wake up I hope to see a new post from you.
##Vote Adam4167
I don't necessarily think you're scum or that other people should vote for you, but you've only made one post, and that's simply not good enough.
Hurry up. As previously stated, I went out drinking. And after I finish this post, I'm going to need at least 6 hours to sleep it off. I feel that by flinging your vote in every direction, you have cheapened the weight of your vote when you eventually do decide to settle on a target. I also feel the need to point out again that you have had 5 separate votes in 12 hours, which is almost half of the players participating.You’ve caught my attention Blazinghand, don’t slip =).
Thanks, that's enough justification for me. I appreciate the explanation, and what jaybrundage said goes right along with that.
##Unvote: BroodKingEXE
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On December 05 2011 10:43 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 10:42 Blazinghand wrote:On December 05 2011 10:40 ElectricBlack wrote:
I'd be much more comfortable lynching Hassybaby than any of the current candidates. I need to go to sleep now (it's well past midnight over here), I'll give details as for why this is in the morning. No. Vote. Don't wait, don't delay-- it's anti-town to do so. Cast your vote, even if you don't have time to explain. Actually, this delay is more anti-town than Adam's amazing inactivity. It's anti-worthful, rather than just worthless. ##Vote ElectricBlackVote or die.
I disagree with this. He's made a stance, and he'll post information when he has time. I'm okay with that. If he doesn't post his reasoning, then I'll be concerned, but for now I'm willing to wait for that.
My point is that he has said who he'd be comfortable voting for.
As to who I'm voting for, I'm going to be tossing a
##Vote: Adam4167
because he's the best available candidate of our current suspects. While I'm still not entirely sold on BKEXE and am certainly not sold on Hassybaby, both have contributed more than Adam to the thread, especially now that BKEXE has explained why he voted.
I may change this later because I haven't had time to re-filter everyone, but for now I'll put my vote here.
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Let's discuss as if he had voted, then - that's the best solution I can think of.
Hassybaby:
The main issue I think people has is that he hasn't really posted any serious reads. His vote (currently on BKEXE) is there solely because of my reasoning, because "there just isn't a strong enough case on anyone else". While he says he'll change the vote tomorrow, and that's all well and good, I wish there were more reasoning than just "someone else said so".
On top of that, I think we're all waiting for some constructive commenting from him. The defensiveness on Tunkeg early is at least something to consider, but I'd like to see what he thinks about some of the active posters in the thread. He asks for analysis from some posters (Adam, for one), but doesn't give any himself.
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Guh, hello new page!
@Adam: What's your opinion on the main posters so far? You said you were back to post some content, so I'm excited to see what you have to say.
After reading EB's last two posts, it's past "I don't have time" and into the realm of "I'm going to deliberately obstruct the town". I want an explanation. If you're town aligned, what's the motive behind withholding information/a case from the town because you are having a disagreement with one person?
Regardless of how he flips, at the moment there had better be a damn good reason not to have voted and helped to generate discussion, past "Blazinghand pissed me off" - because that's simply not good enough.
##Unvote
##Vote: ElectricBlack
Does this mean Adam's off my list? Not a chance. He's the next suspicious person on my list. Characterizing aggression designed to draw out lurkers as "reckless" seems like far too much of a generalization, and honestly his reaction to Tunkeg's light pressure worries me. It seems a little over the top, even if he did try to explain why he put it that way in his last post.
I want to hear more from BByte. Here's what we've got so far:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 05 2011 09:20 BByte wrote:My strongest scum read so far is Velinath. He has been active (very much so actually), but what has he contributed? Some policy discussion, a bit of finger pointing (mostly to spark activity), some fluff. Mostly he has been following other people's ideas, not making his own calls. All of this is something scum could easily do with very little risk. Then there are a couple of posts of light analysis. His "reads post" sums it up best: + Show Spoiler +On December 05 2011 03:29 Velinath wrote:Whee, time to copy in my reads. Keeping a spreadsheet is going to be quite helpful, I think. Blazinghand: Feels very Townie to me. Posting reasonable content and post analysis already. Willing to take actions on his stances. Softclaimed Vanilla Townie http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067¤tpage=8#152 Bringing lurkers out, which can ONLY help town. I approve. Call it 90% town. Also, his discussion with ey215 looked good, and convinced me further of his townieness. BroodKingEXE: Empty post. Worries me.Feels scummy but could be a noob. Amend: Six posts that don't sit right with me, but again, could be new player. xkskc: Leaning town for now. Started our policy discussion. Discussion is good. While he disagrees with BH's methods, I clearly feel like he's playing a townie game right now. Different methodolgy, same goal. To note, he pointed out that there may be mafia in the group leadership., which should be something to keep in mind. Question is whether it's sowing suspicion or genuine pro-town, and I haven't figured that out yet. xtfftc: Null read. He argued against LAL and LALurkers, and I don't wanna go with that. Let's look again once he posts again. (Amend: Looked through his filter to update this post, and I really liked his post here. Still a null read, but this feels positive to me.) ey215: Pointed out some good things. He sees Blazinghand's methods as creating tension within the town, and that's fine - he's entitled to opinion. Like xkskc, he disagrees with methods but seems to be working towards the same goal. Their discussion, while heated, really brought out to me that they both seem very town-aligned, and willing to take positions and defend them. EB: Makes good points. At this point I'm leaning town, simply because he's pro-discussion this early. That said I'd love to see more posts here. Tunkeg: Posted his reads, and is encouraging discussion. I think this is a good thing, and might peg him as one of the influential voices in the town soon. Largely a null read, but I'm starting to lean town. BByte: I'm not totally impressed yet. One post about breadcrumbs (which is more about the game in general than a content post) and one post about a couple of the players. That post was good, and I agree that we shouldn't be intimidated by one person, but I'd like to see more. jaybrundage: Neutral for now, but a lack of content disturbs me. We've still got like 30 hours though. Adam4167: Two posts, neither of which hugely impress me. I liked how he went through and stated a clear opinion on BH's play. While I disagree with his opinion, I think that the way he put things is pro-town in that post. I'd love to see more content here, but so far looks pretty good. Hassybaby: Disagrees with early targets, and I can see why. I think he is overly defensive towards Tunkeg - not an OMGUS vote, but definitely that kind of idea. Not sure what to think, but this early just a null read. Grackaroni: Posted reads, but before that there's a bunch of policy posts. Not that I haven't made a ton of policy posts too, but I'll wait for more content. Null read. How does half town, half null reads with a couple of unsures thrown in help the town in any way? Even those unsure reads are off people who have been previously called out by others. Everything seems very non-committal. #Vote Velinath
This is his only real post of substance. To defend myself, before I start making any semblance of a case, it was so early in the game that there simply wasn't enough information for me to really start forming opinions.
3 of his 8 posts so far in the game are dedicated to trying to put a vote on me (due to formatting errors). Even that seems a little off to me, given I'm actually posting and furthering discussion - but my point is there's just not a lot of information that he's contributed. I want to see more posts. A post about breadcrumbing, some sketchy analysis on Adam and ey, and a weak case on me just isn't enough for me; I want to hear more. Why should I be lynched? What don't you like about the EB or Adam4167 cases, if anything? He said he'd post thoughts on the lynch discussion but I haven't heard anything yet (maybe a time zone thing, but we've talked a lot since his last post and he's been silent).
Not that this does anything, but FoS: BByte.
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xkskc,
I'm on and reading the thread at this time, and should be in the future as well.
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Good morning.
On December 05 2011 20:34 ElectricBlack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2011 20:24 xsksc wrote:
What's interesting? I can't make a big post about you right now cause I'm playing SC2, I'm posting quickly inbetween games. I'll do it when I'm finished. Velinath agreed with BH's reasoning that I must be scum because I decided not to vote, He already has shown himself to be willing to be critical of the situation, so I'm not worried about him. Once he realizes my choice of not voting was actually optimal in the situation (as explained when I first started responding to the cases built while I slept), I think he will find something more productive to do.
Hi!
I never said you were scum. I said you were playing anti-town. There's a key difference - check out ... oh, shoot, I can't remember if it was Kenpachi or Coagulation in 46. One (or both) of them was lurking extremely hardcore, promised analysis "tomorrow" that never got there, posted a few one-liners here and there - and then they flipped town. The players in 46 didn't necessarily assume that they were scum - just not playing to the best interests of the town. I thought the same thing about you here.
Now, that said, both the reasoning you posted for why you didn't post and your case on Hassy are quite good. I think if you had just said "Hey, it's 1 am here, I'll post some thougts in the morning" I think that would have been fine - time zones are things we can understand.  What's happened has happened, though.
##Unvote
Now, some questions. Tunkeg posted some good content early, and now he's completely disappeared. I'd like to hear more from him, because right now he's gone from being a helpful member to lurking pretty hard for a while now.
BByte still hasn't checked in despite both myself and, later, xtfftc mentioning him. I want to hear from him - he's provided minimal content including a very half-assed case on me and some sketchy analysis on ey215. This could just be lazy play but it's starting to worry me, since after voting me (posts doing so comprise almost half of his filter!) he's disappeared.
I would be happy to see him lynched, especially since the two people I previously had worries about content generation have stepped up in a big way and helped out.
##Vote: BByte
Adam and EB have both stepped up and provided some good analysis (and I was really impressed by EB's case. I'm going to take a closer look at Hassybaby. Calling someone "Serejai" after watching 47, even if not voting them, reeks of OMGUS as I said earlier in the thread, and is an overreaction to light pressure - plus, the bandwagoning is, as noted here in addition to your case, a matter for some concern.
Headed to class but I should be able to keep an eye on the thread.
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EPT
